>> HI I'M MARC ROTTERMAN.

COMING UP THE BATTLE OVER VACCINE MANDATES.

MORE DEMOCRATS DEPART FROM CONGRESS AND THE SUPREME COURT RULES FOR THE POLICE IN TWO EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES, NEXT.

A COMPLETE LIST OF FUNDERS CAN BE FOUND AT: ♪ >> WELCOME BACK.

JOINING THE CONVERSATION, MITCH KOKAI WITH THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION, JAY CHAUDHRY, THE DEMOCRATIC WHIP IN THE SENATE, DEMOCRATIC SENATOR SYDNEY BATCH, AND NELSON DOLLAR, SENIOR ADVISER NORTH COUNTY SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

MITCH, WHY DON'T WE BEGIN WITH THE GROWING CONTROVERSY OVER VACCINE MANDATES.

>> WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SUPPORT SLIPPING TO 37% IN THE LATEST QUINNIPIAC POLL, 39% OF THE CIVITAS POLL, THROW THAT IN AS WELL, LAST THING HE NEEDS AT THIS POINT IS CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING SOME OF HIS MAJOR ISSUES ONE OF WHICH IS THIS VACCINE MANDATE.

BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING.

WE'RE SEEING ALL KINDS OF RIPPLE EFFECTS FROM GOVERNMENTS AT ALL LEVELS TRYING TO FORCE WORKERS TO EITHER GET A VACCINE OR LOSE THEIR JOBS ARE SEEING PUSHBACK FROM POLICE UNIONS AND LOCAL CITY GOVERNMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AIRLINE PILOTS >> FIRST RESPONDERS.

>> FIRST RESPONDERS, MILITARY TROOPS, STAFF IN NURSING HOMES, ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING AS WELL AS EMPLOYERS OF ALL TYPES ARE STRUGGLING TO GET PEOPLE INTO JOBS, AND SO AT THIS POINT YOU'RE TELLING SOME PEOPLE 'WELL YOU CAN'T HAVE A JOB IF YOU DON'T GET THIS VACCINE.'

WE HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED ON THE FACT THAT THE VACCINE MANDATE HAS SOME CONSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS WITH THAT AND THAT THERE WOULD BE SUCH A MAJOR ENFORCEMENT HASSLE IF IT REALLY DOES GO THROUGH OSHA.

SO THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN AND FOR OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO ARE LOOKING AT THESE VACCINE MANDATES BECAUSE AS ONE COLUMNIST DESCRIBED IT, IT'S BASICALLY GOVERNMENT PLAYING A GAME OF CHICKEN WITH PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR LIVELIHOODS.

>> NELSON, DO MANDATES WORK IN A FREE SOCIETY AND THE QUESTION THAT HE JUST BROUGHT UP, ARE THEY CONSTITUTIONAL?

>> AMERICANS DO NOT LIKE MANDATES.

NOW FIRST AND FOREMOST THEIR WILLINGNESS TO GET VACCINATED I WOULD CERTAINLY ENCOURAGE THAT.

BUT YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE JOBS NUMBERS IN AUGUST WE ACTUALLY HAD A RECORD 3% OF THE WORKFORCE, 4.3 MILLION PEOPLE LEFT THE WORK FORCE QUIT IN AUGUST AND A LARGE SHARE THAT WAS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DEAL WITH WITH VACCINE MANDATES.

NOW THE U.S. SUPREME COURT ON 3 OCCASIONS, INCLUDING ONE THIS WEEK WITH THE STATE OF MAINE HAVE DECLINED TO ISSUE EMERGENCY STAYS ON VACCINE MANDATES THAT STATES AND -- >> [MARC] SO THEY'RE NOT WEIGHING IN.

>> THEY'RE NOT WEIGHING IN YET, BUT I THINK WHERE THEY MAY WELL WEIGH IN IS WHERE MITCH IS TALKING ABOUT AND THAT IS WHERE BIDEN IS SEEKING TO DO A NATIONAL MANDATE.

HE MAY NOT HAVE THE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO DO THAT OR THE CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY TO DO THAT FROM THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

>> JAY THE PRESIDENT SAID ON CNN THIS WEEK THAT POLICE AND FIRST RESPONDERS SHOULD BE FIRED.

IF THEY DON'T THEY DON'T GET THE VACCINE.

WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO PUBLIC SAFETY?

WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO HEALTH CARE >> WELL LOOK I THINK FIRST OF ALL IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT WE TALK ABOUT MANDATES.

WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD MANDATES IN PLACE FOR SCHOOLS FOR DECADES AND WE HAVE MANDATES FOR VACCINE MANDATES FOR MEASLES AND MUMPS THE SCHOOLS AND MILITARIES REQUIRE THEM SO THERE'S REALLY NO DEPARTURE I THINK WITH COVID BASED ON WHAT WE'VE DONE HERE FOR YEARS.

I THINK SECONDLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES WITH FIRST RESPONDERS I STILL THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SUPPORTS MANDATES BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT MANDATES IS THE BEST WAY TO GET OUR KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL.

>> POLICE ARE ALREADY UNDER FIRE.

WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS THOUGH DON'T WE JAY IN SOME OF THESE BIG CITIES WITH CRIME AND DO WE REALLY WANT TO FIRE POLICE AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL LOOK I THINK WE'RE HEARING A LOT OF LOUD VOICES FROM SOME FROM SOME CONSTITUENCIES, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT IS BETTER FOR US TO LOOK OUT FOR THE SAFETY OF A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS THAT INCLUDE THE ELDERLY, INCLUDE YOUNG CHILDREN SUCH AS THE ONE THAT I HAVE THAT HASN'T BEEN VACCINATED YET, OVER A VERY SELECT VOICE OF A FEW THAT ARE VERY LOUD.

LOUD MINORITY.

>> SYDNEY YOU THINK THIS IS A CHOICE FOR THE INDIVIDUAL AND THEIR DOCTOR OR SHOULD IT BE MANDATED?

>> I THINK THAT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES, I THINK WHEN YOU'RE FORWARD FACING, AND YOU'RE IN THE PUBLIC THAT YOU NEED TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE I THINK BUSINESSES SHOULD CHOOSE WHAT'S BEST FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES BUT IN PARTICULAR WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FORWARD FACING INDIVIDUALS IN THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY ALSO WITH REGARDS TO THE POLICE AND IT'S ALARMING.

COVID IS THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF POLICE OFFICERS.

OVER 500 OFFICERS HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE LAST 2 YEARS, SO IT'S NOT AS IF WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT A ONE OFF.

BUT WHAT I DO THINK IS IMPORTANT IS THAT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH REGARDS TO THE MANDATES WE HAVE TO OF COURSE MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU ARE FORWARD FACING AND YOU'RE DEALING WITH INDIVIDUALS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A CHOICE TO INTERACT WITH YOU YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU MAY CONTRACT -- >> GREAT CONVERSATION I WANT TO MOVE ON SEVERAL KEY DEMOCRATS RETIRE FROM CONGRESS THIS WEEK NELSON.

>> THEY HAVE.

THE TRADITIONAL CANARY IN THE COAL MINE, WHICH MOST PARTIES LOOK AT IS, ARE THEIR MEMBERS RETIRING IN ADVANCE OF THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS OR IN ANY ELECTION.

SO FAR 20 MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE HAVE ANNOUNCED RETIREMENTS, 11 OF THOSE ARE SEEKING FURTHER OFFICE, 7 RUNNING FOR THE UNITED STATES SENATE, BUT 11 ARE FULL RETIREMENTS.

OF THOSE 8 ARE DEMOCRATS 3 ARE REPUBLICANS, SEVERAL MAJOR NAMES, INCLUDING OF COURSE -- >> [MARC] REPRESENTATIVE PRICE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT INCLUDING DAVID PRICE HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, THE TREND IS LIKELY TO BUILD, AND EVERYONE IS REALLY WAITING TO SEE IF SPEAKER PELOSI AND MAJORITY LEADER HOYER OR MAJORITY WHIP CLIBURN, ALL 3 OF WHICH ARE OVER 80 YEARS OLD WILL ALSO RETIRE.

NOW I THINK THEY'VE GOT SOME BILLS THEY WANT TO GET PAST FIRST, BUT THAT WOULD BE A SEISMIC EVENT NOW, THIS IS A GREAT TREND FOR REPUBLICANS BUT IT IS NOT ALL ROSES BECAUSE IN THE SENATE 5 REPUBLICANS HAVE ANNOUNCED THEIR RETIREMENT AND THAT SETS UP SOME MAJOR BATTLES FOR SENATE SEATS AND PARTICULARLY IN PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO AND HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

>> JAY YOUR REFLECTIONS ON DAVID PRICE'S CAREER.

>> WELL AS WE WERE TALKING AND I THINK CONGRESSMAN PRICE COMMANDED ENORMOUS RESPECT, AND WHETHER YOU AGREED WITH HIS POLITICS OR NOT I THINK HE WAS A STUDIOUS QUIET, THOUGHTFUL.

>> [MARC] PRINCIPLED.

>> PRINCIPLED AND ALSO A POLITICAL SCIENTIST WHO WENT TO WASHINGTON DC ACTUALLY WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT, BUT HE WILL BE SOMEONE WHO WILL BE DEEPLY MISSED AND I THINK REPRESENTED THE TRIANGLE ABLY.

>> YOU KNOW WE HAD HIM ON FRONT ROW ABOUT 3 OR 4 TIMES.

I DIDN'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH HIM, BUT I THOUGHT HE WAS WELL STUDIED AND AN HONEST BROKER.

WEIGH IN HERE SYDNEY.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISING AND HATE TO BE MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS, BUT HE'S LONG IN THE TOOTH AS ARE MANY OF THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY RETIRING AT THIS POINT, AND WHEN YOU HAVE 535 PEOPLE IN CONGRESS I THINK THAT WE'RE MAKING MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING BECAUSE -- >> [MARC] SO YOU'RE FOR GENERATIONAL CHANGE.

>> WELL, I JUST THINK THAT AT SOME POINT HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENJOY HIS RETIREMENT AND HE COULD HAVE DONE THAT AT 65 OR HE CAN DO IT 81.

A LOT OF THE MEMBERS THAT ARE ACTUALLY RETIRING ARE PAST 60, AND ONE OF THEM IN PARTICULAR STATING THAT HE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS TIME TO GO AHEAD AND HAND THE GAVEL OVER.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN HE HAS HAD AN ILLUSTRIOUS CAREER WE CAN THANK HIM FOR RTP AND ALL THE INVESTMENTS THAT WE'VE HAD AND THE WAY THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE A HUGE BIOTECH INDUSTRY BECAUSE OF HIM, BUT I THINK THAT WE ARE MAKING MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY REPUBLICANS ARE ALSO RETIRING AND IT'S NOT SURPRISING WHEN YOU HAVE 500.

>> I KIND OF DISAGREE WITH THAT MITCH BECAUSE WHAT I THINK IS I THINK THIS IS SYMPTOMATIC THAT THEY'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT THE TEA LEAVES AND SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS ARE GETTING OUT BECAUSE THEY THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A WAVE IN 2022.

>> THE NEW YORK TIMES SEEMS TO THINK SO.

THEY HAD A REPORT THAT BASICALLY SAID THAT THE RETIREMENTS OF DAVID PRICE, THE BUDGET COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN FOR KENTUCKY, ANOTHER COLLEAGUE FROM PENNSYLVANIA WAS A SIGN OF FADING HOPES FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF CONGRESS.

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AFTER THE ELECTION.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THIS TIMES ARTICLE INTERVIEWED ALL 3 OF THE PEOPLE I JUST MENTIONED INCLUDING PRICE AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEY MENTIONED ABOUT WHY THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF CONGRESS.

DONALD TRUMP'S CONTINUED DOMINANCE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THAT SHOULDN'T SURPRISE YOU, BUT ALSO CONCERNS ABOUT BALKANIZATION OF THEIR OWN PARTY.

MODERATES VERSUS THE FOLKS WHO LIKE TO SPEND A LOT VERSUS THE, AS SOME HAVE DESCRIBED IT, THE CRAZY WIING OF THE PARTY SO CAN CAN THE DEMOCRATS AVOID SOME OF THE SPLINTERING THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN BOTH PARTIES OVER THE YEARS.

>> WELL THE PARTY IN POWER JAY USUALLY TAKES A HIT IN THE OFF YEAR ELECTIONS, PLUS I NOTICED THAT BIDEN IN SEVERAL POLLS IS ABOUT 27% OF INDEPENDENTS.

>> I MEAN LOOK I MEAN I THINK THAT'S THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM CERTAINLY WHEN WE AS DEMOCRATS TRY TO PUSH THE SAME NARRATIVE WHEN REPUBLICANS ARE RETIRING, BUT THERE IS A PRESIDENTIAL PENALTY DURING THE MIDTERMS BUT I MEAN I AGREE WITH SYDNEY, I THINK CERTAINLY WITH DAVID PRICE'S SEAT, I MEAN HE'LL BE REPLACED BY DEMOCRAT IT MAY BE TOO EARLY TO TELL RIGHT NOW.

>> OK I'M COMING RIGHT BACK TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT RACES AND EXCESSIVE A SUPREME COURT RULINGS IN EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES.

>> YES, SO THIS MONDAY IN TWO UNSIGNED OPINIONS FROM THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT THEY RULED IN FAVOR OF POLICE OFFICERS SEEKING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY FROM ALLEGATIONS OF EXCESSIVE FORCES.

IN BOTH CASES THE SUPREME COURT ACTUALLY OVERTURNED LOWER COURT CASES THAT HAD RULED AGAINST THOSE POLICE OFFICERS.

QUALIFIED IMMUNITY AS YOU MAY KNOW IS A LEGAL DOCTRINE THIS DEVELOPED BY THE COURTS ESSENTIALLY SHIELDS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM LIABILITY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATIONS THAT CAN INCLUDE EXCESSIVE FORCES, THERE'S BEEN A BIG MOVEMENT ACTUALLY BY BOTH PROGRESSIVE AND CONSERVATIVES DO AWAY WITH THE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY DOCTRINE AND WE'VE SEEN ADDITIONAL SCRUTINY OF THE DOCTRINE BASED AFTER THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER THAT TOOK PLACE BUT THE SUPPORTERS OF THE DOCTRINE SAY THAT QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS NEEDED TO PROTECT POLICE OFFICERS FROM FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS.

WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS UNSIGNED OPINION IS THAT CLARENCE THOMAS AND SONIA SOTOMAYOR ARE THE MOST CONSERVATIVE MOST LIBERAL MEMBER OF THE COURT ACTUALLY DID NOT AUTHOR A DISSENT OPINION SO THERE WAS AGREEMENT ACTUALLY ON THESE 2 CASES.

>> MITCH, PEOPLE WHO HAVE DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE POLICE THEY CAN SUE THE CITY OR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT RIGHT?

>> THEY CAN.

THE INTERESTING THING TO ME ABOUT THIS DEBATE IS THAT QUALIFIED IMMUNITY AND SUPPORT REALLY ISN'T A LEFT RIGHT REPUBLICAN VERSUS DEMOCRAT ISSUE.

ON THE RIGHT, THERE IS A HEALTHY DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER QUALIFIED IMMUNITY MAKES SENSE.

LIBERTARIANS TEND TO BE VERY MUCH AGAINST QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

BASICALLY WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED IT YET, BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS YOU CAN'T SUE AN OFFICER FOR SOMETHING UNLESS THERE HAS BEEN BASICALLY PROOF THAT SOMEONE ELSE DID THE EXACT SAME THING.

AND SO IF IF THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IN ONE CASE THAN ANOTHER, THEN QUALIFIED IMMUNITY PREVENTS YOU FROM BEING SUED ON THAT ISSUE.

LIBERTARIANS ARE VERY MUCH AGAINST IT.

BUT A LOT OF CONSERVATIVES, ESPECIALLY LAW AND ORDER TYPE CONSERVATIVES THINK IT'S A GOOD THING.

>> WHAT WOULD THAT DO NELSON TO RETENTION TO RECRUITMENT?

>> IT WOULD BE HORRENDOUS.

QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL.

IT'S NOT JUST POLICE OFFICERS, IT'S CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, NURSES, DOCTORS, EMT'S, PARK RANGERS, PUBLIC SERVANTS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE UNDER WHAT'S CALLED THE COLOR OF LAW OTHERWISE WHO'S GOING TO RISK THEIR LIVES THEIR LIVELIHOODS THEIR FAMILIES IF THEY CAN'T RELY ON THE LAW?

YOU KNOW IT'S ONE THING TO BE SITTING AROUND WORKING IN AN OFFICE.

IT'S A NOTHER THING TO BE ON THE STREET 03:00AM ANSWERING A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CALL WITH A GUY WHO'S WIELDING A CHAINSAW WHICH IS SOME OF THE FACTS AND ONE OF THESE CASES SO THE SUPREME COURT HAS ESTABLISHED VERY CLEAR PRECEDENTS ON QUALIFIED IMMUNITY THAT IT'S THE GOVERNMENT'S IMMUNITY, SO IT'S NOT THE PUBLIC SERVANTS IMMUNITY IF THEY VIOLATE THE LAW, THEY LOSE JUST LIKE DEREK CHAUVIN DID.

NO ONE HAS BLANKET PROTECTION FROM CRIMINAL OR CIVIL ACTION IF THEY BREAK THE LAW OR IF THEY VIOLATE SOMEONE'S CIVIL RIGHTS.

>> SENATOR YOUR TAKE?

>> I THINK THAT ONE OF THE IMPORTANT PARTS IS THAT OBVIOUSLY SUPREME COURT HAS RULED THAT WE HAVE ALSO SEEN STATES LIKE NORTH CAROLINA ACTUALLY ISSUE IN CREATING PAST LAWS LIKE SB 300 WHICH DEALS WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES, SO IF THE ISSUE IS EXCESSIVE FORCE, YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH GOVERNMENT IMMUNITY BUT NOW IN SB 300 WE ACTUALLY HAVE PUT PROCEDURES NOW IN PLACE THAT WERE NOT THERE BEFORE WHICH THEN MANDATE A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO INTERVENE WHEN THEY SEE ANOTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER USING EXCESSIVE FORCE AND THEN THEY HAVE TO REPORT IT WITHIN 3 DAYS 72 HOURS TO THEIR SUPERIOR OFFICER.

SO WE CAN STILL ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE AND GET BAD POLICE OUT OF POLICING WHICH IS A VERY SMALL PERCENT OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT STILL PROTECTED, THEY HAVE GOVERNMENTAL IMMUNITY, BUT WE AS THE STATE HAVE ACTUALLY SAT THERE AND FIGURED OUT OTHER SMARTER WAYS IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEANING UP POLICING AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND BAD ACTORS ARE BEING REMOVED FROM THE FORCE.

>> JAY WRAP THIS UP IN ABOUT 40 SECONDS MY FRIEND.

>> WELL, I MEAN I THINK THAT SYDNEY TALKED ABOUT ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES I THINK IS GOING FORWARD ON WHETHER THERE'S QUALIFIED IMMUNITY OR NOT, BUT CERTAINLY ONE THING WE'RE SEEING IS THAT WE'RE SEEING STATES TAKING THE LEAD PARTICULARLY IN A BIPARTISAN EFFORT WE'VE DONE THIS THE NORTH CAROLINA GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO FOCUS ON OTHER ISSUES, INCLUDING EXCESSIVE FORCE AND THE DUTY TO INTERVENE, WHICH HAS AGREEMENT BY BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY.

>> OKAY I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SYDNEY.

WHAT'S UP?

>> NOW WHAT IS UP TWO MAJOR THINGS, REDISTRICTING AND OF COURSE THE BUDGET.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SEEN THAT THE MAPS HAVE ACTUALLY DROPPED, THEIR ONLINE, EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT, PUBLIC COMMENT WILL OCCUR I THINK ONLINE AND ALSO IN PERSON NEXT WEEK BASED ON THE SCHEDULE.

NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, WE'LL SEE A LOT OF LEGISLATORS WHO ARE GOING TO BE WORRIED BECAUSE IF THE COURTS DON'T INTERVENE AND SAY THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY LIVE WHERE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO IS YOUR RESIDENCY BY NOVEMBER 5TH.

A LOT OF LEGISLATORS WERE DOUBLE BUNKED, THEY'RE GOING HAVE TO MAKE SOME HARD DECISIONS THAT IF THEY WANT TO STAY IN THE LEGISLATURE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE AND MOVE PRETTY QUICKLY WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THOSE AMOUNTS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE, SO THAT WE SHOULD CERTAINLY WATCH OUT ON THAT AND THEN THE THE GOVERNOR AND WITH BUDGETING THE SENIOR LEADERSHIP OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WENT AHEAD AND OF COURSE GAVE THEIR BUDGET TO THE GOVERNOR, HE IS ALREADY VOLLEYED BACK A RESPONSE.

THEY'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH REGARDS TO COUNTER OFFERS, I THINK THERE'S A HUGE APPETITE FOR MAKING SURE WE ACTUALLY GET A BUDGET THIS TIME WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE IN SEVERAL YEARS, WE'VE HAD MORE MONEY THAN WE EVER HAVE, SO I THINK THAT THERE'S AN APPETITE FROM EVERYONE TO GET THAT DONE.

WHAT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING IS WHETHER OR NOT LEANDRO IS GOING TO BE FULLY FUNDED AND WHETHER OR NOT JUDGE LEE IS GOING TO BE A POSITION WHICH HE SAYS AND HE SAID "I'M GOING TO GIVE A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO THE GENERAL "ASSEMBLY TO FULLY FUND LEANDRO BEFORE I DO SOMETHING."

I THINK THAT WE'RE COMING INTO A SITUATION IN WHICH IT WILL NOT BE FULLY FUNDED AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN FURTHER LITIGATION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT SOME PEOPLE IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DON'T THINK THAT THE JUDGE HAS ANY AUTHORITY TO TELL THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHAT TO DO WITH REGARDS TO ITS BUDGET.

>> JAY IS MEDICAID EXPANSION IS THAT THE BIG TICKET ITEM FOR THE GOVERNOR, AND IS THAT A DEAL BREAKER IF HE DOESN'T GET SOMETHING?

>> WELL, I THINK IT IS -- >> SORRY TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT [LAUGHTER] >> I THINK IF YOU ASK ANY DEMOCRAT ABOUT THIS QUESTION, I MEAN I THINK THEY WOULD SAY THAT MEDICAID EXPANSION IS ON THE TABLE.

I THINK THE REAL QUESTION IS WHETHER THE SENATE REPUBLICANS AND THE SENATE AND HOUSE LEADERS AGREE TO THAT AND IF THEY DON'T, I THINK THE REAL QUESTION IS BECAUSE THERE SEEMS TO BE A REAL APPETITE TO PUSH FOR CORPORATE TAX CUTS AND PERSONAL INCOME TAX CUTS, HOW DO YOU MAKE UP FOR 50 BILLION DOLLARS OF LOST REVENUE AND IF SO IF MEDICAID EXPANSION IS NOT ON THE TABLE HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT UP?

DO YOU ACTUALLY FULLY FUND LEANDRO AND PUBLIC EDUCATION, WHICH IS ALSO BIG AREA OF DISAGREEMENT.

>> NELSON?

>> WELL, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE LEANDRO JUDGE BECAUSE IT IS TRULY THEATER OF THE ABSURD TO THINK THAT ONE JUDGE COULD ORDER THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO APPROPRIATE 1.7 BILLION DOLLARS NOT TO MENTION THE 5.6 BILLION HE'S SAYING THAT WE HAVE TO APPROPRIATE.

IT VIOLATES THE STATE CONSTITUTION, SEPARATION OF POWERS, AND IF YOU FOLLOW THE LOGIC, STATE COURTS COULD USE ANY CONSTITUTIONAL CLAIM TO COMPEL BOTH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO PASS A BILL AND THE GOVERNOR TO SIGN A BILL.

>> SO IT JUST SIMPLY IS TURNING BASIC LEGAL PRINCIPLES ON THEIR HEAD AND THE TRUTH IS THAT SCHOOL CHILDREN IN NORTH CAROLINA LOST MOST OF THEIR LEARNING OVER THIS PAST YEAR BECAUSE THEY WERE FORCED OUT OF SCHOOL.

SO WHO'S ACTUALLY GOING TO PAY THE COST FOR THAT?

AND IN MANY CASES, THOSE WERE LOCAL SCHOOL SYSTEMS SO THEY NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THIS AS WELL IN TERMS OF WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR THE LEARNING LOSS.

IT'S BEEN OUT THERE SOME OF IT THAT WAS SELF-IMPOSED UNFORTUNATELY.

>> OKAY, WHAT ABOUT NO PATIENT LEFT ALONE?

THAT WAS SIGNED IN LAW WASN'T IT?

>> IT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW.

THIS IS A SIGN THAT SOME THINGS CAN GET DONE ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS, BUT THE ONE ISSUE I WANT TO MENTION THAT KIND OF SHOWS WHERE THINGS STAND IS THAT THE HOUSE FINALIZED A BILL THAT WOULD SCALE BACK THE GOVERNOR'S POWERS DURING A TIME OF EMERGENCY, BUT TO SHOW YOU WHERE THINGS STAND AND HOW EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE, THE BILL WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE AND HAD NO DEBATE.

THE SPONSOR SAID "I THINK THIS IS GOOD BILL."

THEY VOTED ON IT, EVERYONE KNEW GOVERNOR COOPER'S GOING TO VETO THE BILL AND THERE AREN'T GOING TO BE THE VOTES TO OVERRIDE THE VETO, THEY DIDN'T NEED TO SPEND 2 HOURS TO DEBATE SOMETHING THAT COULD TAKE 2 MINUTES.

>> OKAY NELSON, YOU'RE ON THE SPOT.

BUDGET NEXT WEEK, DO WE HAVE A DEAL?

>> WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THAT ISSUE.

[ALL LAUGHING] I THINK THE KEY PART IS THAT THE SPEAKER, THE PRO TEM, AND THE GOVERNOR HAVE ALSO DOWN, THEY'RE ALL IN THE PROCESS OF TALKING IT THROUGH, EVERYBODY KNOWS THE PIECES THAT ARE THAT ARE ON THE ON THE TABLE AND I THINK THAT THEY WILL IN FAIRLY SHORT ORDER WORK THROUGH A SUCCESSFUL CONCLUSION.

>> OKAY, LET'S GO TO THE MOST UNDERREPORTED STORY OF THE WEEK MITCH.

>> THIS IS KIND OF INTERESTING.

PEOPLE WHO ARE CONFINED IN NORTH CAROLINA'S 55 PRISONS ARE NO LONGER GOING TO GET CARDS, PHOTOS OR HANDWRITTEN LETTERS ANYMORE.

INSTEAD THEY'RE GOING TO GET A PRINT OUT OF A DIGITAL SCAN.

THIS WAS SOMETHING THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY STARTED AS A PILOT PROJECT IN FOUR WOMEN'S PRISONS, AND THEY FOUND THAT AFTER THE PILOT HAD STARTED THERE WAS A 50% DROP IN INFRACTIONS RELATED TO DRUGS AND SO NOW THIS IS BEING EXPANDED TO ALL THE PRISONS THAT HAVE MEN AS WELL IT'S A RULE CHANGE THAT WENT INTO EFFECT, MAILROOM STAFFERS FOR THE PRISONS HAVE FOUND SOMETHING LIKE 500 DRUG-RELATED OFFENSES OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR SO A CHANGE LIKE THIS MAY HAVE A DIFFERENCE.

OF COURSE SOME CRITICS ARE SAYING, "LOOK PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISON SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET HANDWRITTEN NOTES FROM THEIR FAMILY."

>> OUR PRISON SYSTEM IS STILL HAVING A PROBLEM RETAINING AND HIRING GUARDS, CORRECT?

>> YEAH, THAT'S CERTAINLY TRUE.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IF YOU KNOW GOES BACK TO OUR EARLIER DISCUSSION ABOUT VACCINE MANDATE.

SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO SAY, "YEAH, IT'S A TOUGH JOB, I DON'T WANT IT ANYWAY, I'M GOING TO SIGN OFF."

>> JAY?

>> MOST UNDERREPORTED NEWS OF THE WEEK FOR ME WAS A FLOOR SPEECH THAT UNITED STATES SENATOR ANGUS KING FROM MAINE, WHO IS NOT A DEMOCRAT NOT A REPUBLICAN, BUT AN INDEPENDENT GAVE ON THE FLOOR THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW OUR DEMOCRACY IS AT RISK, AND HE POINTED OUT 2 THINGS ARE GOING ON IN OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, ONE IS REALLY THE BREAKDOWN IN THE LOSS OF TRUST THAT WE HAVE IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM AND SECONDLY IS REALLY THE OVERLY PARTISAN ATTEMPTS TO USE A LOSS OF THAT TRUST SYSTEM AS A PRETEXT TO CHANGE THE RESULTS OF FUTURE ELECTIONS.

HE GOES ON TO IDENTIFY WHAT COULD HAPPEN IN 2024 AND TALKS ABOUT A SCENARIO THAT COULD HAPPEN HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, WHICH IS WE'RE IN A SWING STATE THEY COULD OVERRIDE THE ELECTION RESULTS BY A PARTISAN LEGISLATURE DECIDING TO SET IT'S OWN -- >> [MARC] IS IT REALISTIC THAT COULD HAPPEN HERE?

>> WELL, I MEAN IT'S CERTAINLY BEEN BANDIED AROUND IN PENNSYLVANIA, AND ARIZONA.

I HOPE IT NEVER HAPPENS BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK A LOT OF REPORTERS ARE WRITING ABOUT, I THINK THERE'S A REAL CONCERN.

WHAT I LOVE ABOUT KING'S SPEECH IS THAT HE SAID THAT WE WILL BE LEFT WITH A DOWNWARD SPIRAL TO A HOLLOW SHELL OF DEMOCRACY.

>> UNDERREPORTED.

>> SO MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT OCTOBER IS BREAST CANCER AWARENESS MONTH.

I'D BE REMISS WITHOUT TELLING ALL OF YOU AND EVERYONE THAT'S LISTENING TO GET THE WOMEN IN THEIR LIVES REMIND THEM TO GET THEIR MAMMOGRAMS, BUT WHAT WAS UNDER REPORTED WAS THAT THE GOVERNOR THIS MONTH ACTUALLY DECLARED FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER CLAIMED THAT OCTOBER IS ALSO INFANT LOSS, SIDS AND PREGNANCY LOSS AWARENESS MONTH.

A MILLION PREGNANCIES END IN INFANT LOSS STILLBIRTH AND ALSO MISCARRIAGE EVERY SINGLE YEAR IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN PARTICULAR NORTH CAROLINA 800 STILL BIRTHS, SO THAT'S 800 FAMILIES IN NORTH CAROLINA AND ALL OF THAT, HOW THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF HOW THEY CANNOT BRING A BABY HOME, TO A HOSPITAL AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK IS THAT ADVOCATES CAME HAD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT WE CAN MAKE WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE SURE THAT NO FAMILY HAS TO SUFFER THROUGH THAT.

ONE OF THEM BEING MEDICAID EXPANSION IN LARGE PART BECAUSE WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE RURAL HOSPITALS ARE CLOSING BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T HAVE BABIES.

>> THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT TO OUR ATTENTION.

NELSON.

>> CHINESE.

THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL HYPERSONIC MISSILE TEST.

THAT'S REPORTED.

WHAT'S UNDERREPORTED IS THE PURPOSE OF RUSSIA AND CHINA'S HYPERSONIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM WHICH IS TO PUSH NATO BACK IN EUROPE, AND ALSO TO PUSH THE UNITED STATES BACK IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA AND EASTERN PACIFIC BY THREATENING OUR CARRIER GROUPS.

THE MISSILES ARE DESIGNED AS A STRATEGIC FIRST STRIKE WEAPON WITH REALLY NO EFFECTIVE DEFENSE RIGHT NOW.

THE U.S. IS RAPIDLY WORKING ON DEVELOPING ITS OWN LONG-RANGE MISSILES, TRAVELING AT MACH 20, AND THAT'S THE SPEED OF AN IBM ONLY THESE ARE FAR FAR FAR MORE MANEUVERABLE, WE'RE LOOKING AT IS ENERGY WEAPONS AND LASERS TO ATTEMPT TO CREATE A DEFENSE FOR THESE A HYPERSONIC MISSILES AND NEW 3 BILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT WAS JUST SIGNED RECENTLY FOR A SPACE-BASED MISSILE TRACKING SYSTEM.

IT'S REALLY A BEGINNING OF A NEW ARMS RACE WITH NO TREATY LIMITATIONS RIGHT NOW.

>> OK, LET'S GO TO LIGHTNING ROUND WHO'S UP AND WHO'S DOWN THIS WEEK MITCH?

>> MY WHAT'S UP IS DIGITAL LITERACY WHICH TALKS ABOUT USING INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES TO DEAL WITH THE WORLD AROUND US.

ONE OF THE FEW THINGS WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT THE BUDGET IS THAT GOVERNOR COOPER WANTS MORE MONEY FOR THIS AND APPARENTLY THE NEGOTIATORS HAVE SAID, 'YEAH OK WE'RE WILLING TO GO ALONG WITH YOU ON THAT.'

MY WHO'S DOWN NORTH CAROLINA SCHOOL BOARDS.

I'LL REFERENCE VERY BRIEFLY THE CIVITAS POLL EARLIER.

THE LATEST CIVITAS POLL SAID THAT 52% OF LIKELY VOTERS GIVE SCHOOL BOARDS A 'D' OR AN 'F' FOR THEIR HANDLING OF POLITICS IN THE CLASSROOM, JUST 11% WOULD GIVE THEM AN 'A' OR 'B' 47% WOULD GIVE THEM A 'D' OR 'F' FOR DEALING WITH MASKS AND COVID VACCINES.

>> JAY WHO'S UP AND WHO'S DOWN THIS WEEK?

>> SO WHO'S UP IS THE NORTH CAROLINA STATE FAIR GOING INTO THE SECOND AND LAST WEEKEND AS WE KNOW THE STATE FAIR CLOSED FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE WORLD WAR 2 AND NOW IT'S BACK SO THE KIDS AND OUR FAMILY ARE SUPER EXCITED TO GO BACK THERE'S A CHANCE TO EAT FRIED EVERYTHING, WHO'S DOWN IS CORONAVIRUS.

A NATIONWIDE THE RATES HAVE DROPPED 22% AND EVEN THOUGH WE'RE EXPECTING AN INCREASE IN HOLIDAY TRAVEL, WE KNOW THAT THE EXPERTS ARE EXPECTING THE VIRUS TO LOSE GROUND.

>> SYDNEY?

>> UP IS VACCINATIONS IN NORTH CAROLINA, TWO-THIRDS OF ALL NORTH CAROLINIANS ARE VACCINATED NOW WHICH IS GREAT, FULLY VACCINATED, AND MY DOWN IS THE NUMBER OF TRUCK DRIVERS.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE ABOUT 80,000 TRUCK DRIVERS THAT WE NEED IN ORDER TO KEEP THE SUPPLY CHAIN GOING.

>> WELL A LOT OF TRUCK DRIVERS CAN'T DRIVE IN CALIFORNIA.

THEY CAN'T GET TO THE PORTS.

NELSON?

>> WHO'S UP COLIN POWELL WHO PASSED AWAY THIS WEEK WAS AN AMERICAN HERO EVERYONE SHOULD STUDY THE POWELL DOCTRINE FOR HOW TO FIGHT A SUCCESSFUL WAR IN PANAMA, FIRST GULF WAR, POWELL USED CLEAR OBJECTIVES, OVERWHELMING FORCE COMBINED ARMS, POWELL ALWAYS PROTECTED HIS TROOPS HE GOT THE JOB DONE AND HE GOT OUT OF COUNTRY.

>> HE WAS APPOINTED BY RONALD REAGAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR.

>> ANOTHER GREAT APPOINTMENT BY REAGAN.

WHO'S DOWN TERRY MCAULIFFE, THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA IS NOW TIED IN TWO MOST RECENT POLLS WITH REPUBLICAN GLENN YOUNGKIN.

AND UNLIKE THE CALIFORNIA RECALL ELECTION, THIS RACE IS ABOUT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT'S, SINKING POPULARITY.

ALSO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS A STRONG SHIFT OF INDEPENDENT VOTERS TO THE RIGHT AND THAT'S ALSO INFLUENCING THESE RETIREMENTS IN CONGRESS AND WHAT YOU'RE LIKELY TO SEE IN 2022 IF THAT TREND CONTINUES.

>> WE'RE GOING TO COVER THAT RACE.

AFTER THE RESULTS FOR HIM, BUT I THINK MCCALL'S GOING TO LOSE.

OKAY HEADLINE NEXT WEEK.

>> DEMOCRATIC LAWYERS READY TO POUNCE AS SOON AS THE NEW DISTRICTS ARE PUT IN PLACE.

>> HEADLINE NEXT WEEK, JAY.

REPUBLICANS HOLD PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND STATE LEGISLATIVE MAPS, VOTING RIGHT ADVOCATES AND DEMOCRATS CLAIM GERRYMANDER DISTRICTS.

>> SO IT GOES TO COURT RIGHT?

[LAUGHTER, ALL TALKING] SYDNEY HEADLINE NEXT WEEK.

ALSO REDISTRICTING LINES DOWN WE FINALLY SEE THE MAPS.

>> HEADLINE NEXT WEEK.

>> I'M GOING TO BE THE OPTIMIST.

STATE BUDGET AGREEMENT IS REACHED.

IF I SAY THAT EVERY WEEK ONE WEEK IT WILL BE TRUE.

[LAUGHTER] >> HE KNOWS MORE THAN THE REST OF US AT THIS TABLE SO... >> ON YOUR UP ABOUT POWELL, HE WAS TRULY AN AMERICAN SUCCESS STORY.

>> HE WAS.

HE CAME FROM NOTHING, HE WAS IN MANY RESPECTS SELF TAUGHT, IT'S THE VALUE OF FAMILY MORALS, HIS RELIGIOUS BELIEF, AND HE CARRIED ALL OF HIS VALUES AND HIS JUST TREMENDOUS CHARACTER ALL THROUGH HIS LIFE AND HE WAS A TREMENDOUS INTELLECTUAL.

>> WE'VE GOT TO ROLL.

GREAT CONVERSATION.

THAT'S IT FOR US, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON FRONT ROW HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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