CRYSTAL: HI, EVERYBODY.

I'’M CRYSTAL HAYNES.

TONIGHT, AND NEW REPORT CONFIRMS ALLEGATIONS OF WIDESPREAD RACIAL AND GENDER DISCRIMINATIONS AT THE MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION CENTER AUTHORITY.

WE WILL DIG INTO THE FINDINGS, AND WHAT IS NEXT FOR THE AUTHORITY.

PLUS, BUSINESSES FROM AMAZON TO YOUR LOCAL FITNESS STUDIO ARE WEIGHING IN ON THE WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

SHOULD THEY BE?

TWO CRISIS PR EXPERTS JOIN ME.

BLACK AND HISPANIC AUTHORITIES ARE PAID LESS, DENIED PROMOTIONS, AND LEFT ISOLATED AND MARGINALIZED ACCORDING TO AN INDEPENDENT REPORT FROM THE LAW FIRM, WHO WERE ASKED BY THE MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION CENTER AUTHORITY.

THEY DETERMINED CURRENT LEADERSHIP PRIORITIZES ITS BOTTOM-LINE OVER RACIAL EQUITY AND INCLUSION, AND HAS FOSTERED A CULTURE OF DISTRUST IN HUMAN RESOURCES AND A FEAR OF RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT.

THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR RESPONDED TO THE REPORT, CALLING ITS RECOMMENDATION FOR D -- QUOTE, TRULY WORTHY, AND PROVIDES INSTRUCTIVE GUIDANCE.

BUT THE AUTHORITY SAYS THAT THEY ARE STILL REVIEWING THE SPECIFIC COMPLAINTS HERE AND HAVE NOT YET CAN -- ADDRESSED ANY OF THEM DIRECTLY.

TORI BEDFORD HAS BEEN COVERING THIS STORY FOR GBH AND WAS THE FIRST TO REPORT ON THE FINDINGS OF THE INVESTIGATION AND SHE JOINS ME NOW, AS DOES REPRESENTATIVE BUD WILLIAMS, CHAIR OF THE LEGISLATURE'’S JOINT COMMITTEE ON RACIAL EQUITY, CIVIL-RIGHTS, AND INCLUSION.

THANK YO -- WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

TORI, I HAVE TO ASK YOU, THIS HAS SO MANY TENDRILS.

WE WERE TALKING OFF-CAMERA ABOUT THIS, AND SO MANY COMPOUND ISSUES.

TALK TO ME ABOUT HOW YOU BEGIN THIS REPORTING.

TORI: I THINK WE HAVE HEARD THESE RUMORS FOR A LONG TIME.

AND I HAVE DONE PREVIOUS REPORTING ABOUT LETTERS OF CONDEMNATION, ABOUT BUSINESS PRACTICES, CALLS FOR INCREASING DIVERSITY, CALLS FOR AN AUDIT.

THE BLACK AND LATINO CAUCUS SOME YEARS AGO CAME OUT WITH A LETTER COMPLAINING ABOUT ALLEGATIONS.

SEVERAL EMPLOYEES OF COLOR WROTE A LETTER TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'’S OFFICE, AND A GOVERNOR NOW ASKING ABOUT ISSUES THAT COME UP.

I THINK THEY CALL IT SYSTEMIC SUPPRESS SO -- SUPPRESAL OF ISSUES.

THEY WERE DESCRIBING AN EQUITY, PEOPLE BEING PAID LESS, JUST BEING SUBJECTED TO AWFUL RACIST HUMOR, JOKES AND COMMENTS.

AND NOT BEING ABLE TO ADVANCE AND BEING BYPASSED FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO MOVE UP IN THE ORGANIZATION OR MAKE MORE MONEY AS COMPARED TO THEIR WHITE PEERS.

I HAVE SPOKEN TO BUD ABOUT THIS VERY FREQUENTLY AND HE HAS ALWAYS SAID THIS IS NOT A NEW CONCEPT.

BUT I THINK WITHIN THAT STRUCTURE, ONE OF THE VERY VITAL PARTS OF THAT IS THAT THERE WAS, AND WHAT HAS BEEN REPORTED, WAS THAT THERE WAS A DEEP JURIST -- DEEP DISTRUST OF MANAGEMENT AND HR.

AND SO THERE WAS A FEAR OF SPEAKING OUT IN GENERAL.

NOW WE ARE SEEING MORE PEOPLE COME TO THE FORE, MORE INVESTIGATIONS.

WE ARE STILL WAITING ON THIS AUDIT FROM THE STATE AUDITOR'’S OFFICE.

THEY SAID IT SHOULD TAKE UPWARDS OF A YEAR TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING, BUT THEY ARE LOOKING INTO THE ALLEGATIONS AS WELL.

SO THIS HAS BEEN BREWING FOR A LONG TIME.

CRYSTAL: AND BUD, YOU HAD MENTIONED A LOT OF FOLKS WERE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP AND SPEAK OUT ABOUT THIS.

BUD: ABSOLUTELY, TRUE AND TO THE POINT.

I THINK FOLKS WERE REALLY AFRAID OF RETALIATION.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME.

IT HAS BEEN RUMORED IN YOUR WINDOWS.

JUST THE CULTURE THAT EXISTED.

AND UNTIL THIS REPORT HAD COME OUT TO REALLY SUBSTANTIATE A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON OVER AT THAT CONVENTION CENTER.

I KNOW I FIRST GOT INVOLVED AND SPOKE WITH TORI AND HAD A CONVERSATION AND MET WITH ATTORNEYS.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT AND HARD TO GET PEOPLE TO COME FORWARD.

BECAUSE THIS CONVENTION CENTER HAD A CULTURE THAT THEY WOULD RETALIATE, AND THEY WOULD RETALIATE HARD.

AND THEN YOU CAN LOSE A JOB, COULD GET DE-PROMOTED.

MANY THINGS WENT ON.

SO JUST A BREATH OF FRESH AIR THAT THE BOARD HIRED -- THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ACTUALLY HIRE THE ATTORNEYS TO INVESTIGATE THIS.

BUT IT SUBSTANTIATES WHAT A LOT OF US HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED.

CRYSTAL: SO, IN SPEAKING OF THAT CULTURE, WE HAVE AN EXCERPT FROM A LETTER FROM JERMAINE WHO CLAIMED -- COMPLAINED ABOUT A COWORKER'’S RACIST COMMENTS IN A DECEMBER 2022 OFFICE PARTY.

THIS FEMALE COMPLAINED ABOUT IT, AND JUST DID NOT FOLLOW THROUGH.

IT READS IN PART, QUOTE, ON THE PHONE SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE IS ALL FOR RACIAL JUSTICE AND SHE ADVOCATES FOR IT OUTSIDE OF WORK, BUT SHE CANNOT PUT HERSELF AT RISK OF LOSING HER JOB OVER IT.

I ASSURED HER THAT SHE CANNOT BE FIRED BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION, BUT SHE DID NOT BELIEVE ME.

ON 1/5/23, NICOLE DECIDED TO NOT GO FORWARD WITH THE PROCESS OFFICIALLY.

IT SEEMS LIKE FROM WHAT I HAVE READ, AND OF COURSE TORI YOU ARE THE EXPERT HERE, A LOT OF FOLKS WERE BRINGING UP THESE ISSUES BUT AFRAID TO FOLLOW THROUGH BECAUSE OF THIS CULTURE.

TORI: YES.

I WANT TO CLARIFY, THAT WAS HIS COWORKER, IN HIS LEGAL COMPLAINT HE FILED IN JUNE.

SHE HAD HEARD AT THIS PIZZA HOLIDAY PARTY FOR THE LEGAL TEAM, A MANAGER, HIS MANAGER, TALKING ABOUT HOW HE THOUGHT THAT BOSTON LATIN SCHOOL, WHICH I GUESS HE COULD NOT GET INTO, WAS RUINED BECAUSE THEY LET TOO MANY BLACK PEOPLE IN.

AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT BUSING IN DESEGREGATION, AND TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM MATTAPAN AND JUST USING VERY LATE -- VERY RACIST LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE BLACK PEOPLE IN BOSTON.

SO SHE WAS RELAYING THESE THINGS TO HIM.

SO, ONE OF THE THINGS TALKED ABOUT IN THIS REPORT IS THAT THERE IS NO SYSTEM TO GO THROUGH.

THERE IS THAT DISTRUST.

SO HE WAS TOLD BY HIS MANAGER, LET'’S NOT BRING THIS TO HR.

HE WENT THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS.

HE ACTUALLY SHOWED ME A LETTER HE WROTE AND SIGNED AND HANDED PHYSICALLY TO A SUPERVISOR TO SHOW HE HAD FILED A COMPLAINT THAT HE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THESE COMMENTS.

HE WAS THEN LATER TOLD THAT THEY NEVER RECEIVED THAT LETTER, THAT HE NEVER WROTE IT, AND THAT LATER HE SAYS HE WAS RETALIATED AGAINST THAT SHE WAS ACCUSED OF RETALIATING AGAINST HIS FEMALE COLLEAGUE -- I KNOW IT IS COMPLICATED.

BUT BASICALLY, FOR TELLING HER THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE REPORTED IT.

SO HE WAS THEN IN TROUBLE.

I HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN.

THESE ALLEGATIONS OF THAT HAPPENING, THERE IS A PATTERN THERE.

IN ANOTHER CASE WITH MS. BENJAMIN, ANOTHER CLIENT REPRESENTED BY AN ATTORNEY WHO IS REPRESENTING A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE, SHE WAS SAYING THAT WHEN SHE TRIED TO REPORT RACIST COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE AGAINST HER BY MEMBERS OF A PUBLIC SAFETY TEAM, THEY CONTACTED THEIR SUPERVISORS AND SHE WAS LATER WRITTEN UP AND PENALIZED FOR SAYING SOMETHING.

AND SO THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS THAT SHOW THIS KIND OF DOCUMENTED PATTERN OF PEOPLE BEING RETALIATED AGAINST, THEY SAY, FOR JUST RAISING COMPLAINTS ABOUT RACISM.

AND THOSE EITHER PETER OUT, OR THEY ARE THEN SEEN AS A PROBLEM, AS DIFFICULT, AND THEY ARE LATER GIVEN THESE KIND OF PUNISHMENTS, OR THEY ARE NOT ADVANCED AS MUCH WHEN THEY HAVE MADE THESE COMPLAINTS.

CRYSTAL: SO, THIS WAS AN INTERNAL REVIEW OF RAPPORT.

IS THERE AN ESTIMATION IN TERMS OF THERE WERE ANYONE ELSE LOOKING INTO THESE ISSUES OUTSIDE OF THIS REPORT?

TORI: WE GOT THE STATE AUDITOR'’S OFFICE AND WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR THAT REPORT.

TO THEIR CREDIT, THE MCCA HIRED THIS LAW FIRM TO DO THIS INTERNAL REPORT.

THEY ARE AN INDEPENDENT, THIRD-PARTY ENTITY.

AND I THINK THAT THEY TRIED.

THEY ADDRESSED SOME OF THEIR OWN DIFFICULTIES IN SPEAKING WITH EMPLOYEES BECAUSE OF THAT DISTRUST.

IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO ACCESS PEOPLE.

I THINK AT ONE POINT IN THE REPORT THEY SAID THAT JUST BECAUSE WE CANNOT GET A LOT OF PEOPLE TO SAY THEY HAVE BEEN TREATED DISRESPECTFULLY OR MISTREATED, THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT HAPPENING, BECAUSE WE HAD SUCH A HARD TIME GETTING FOLKS TO TALK TO US.

I THINK THAT THE STATE AUDITOR'’S REPORT IS HOPEFULLY MORE EXPENSIVE AND HOPEFULLY MORE FAR-REACHING.

AND I THINK WE ARE ALL KIND OF WAITING FOR THAT.

AND BUD CAN SPEAK TO THIS AS WELL.

CHANGES NEED TO ALREADY START HAPPENING.

SO I DO WANT TO SAY THEY HAVE CREATED, THEY HAVE REPRESENTED THIS ISSUE -- NOW THERE IS A TASK FORCE TO IMPLEMENT SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE REPORT.

PREVIOUSLY THERE WAS A TASK FORCE.

THEY APPOINTED LAST YEAR ACHIEVE DIVERSITY OFFICER.

I THINK THEY ARE ONE OF THE VERY FEW IF NOT ONLY GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES THAT DIDN'’T HAVE A CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER, BUT NOW THEY HAVE ONE.

UNTIL THE WORK HE WILL BE DOING, HE'’LL BE WORKING CLOSELY WITH THIS TAX FORCE.

HOPEFULLY THEY'’LL BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT SOME CHANGES.

THEY HAVE VOWED TO DO SO.

SO I THINK SOME STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN, BUT IT IS ALL COMING AFTER PUBLIC EXPOSURE, AFTER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR IT FOR SO LONG, AFTER THERE IS IMMENSE PUBLIC PRESSURE TO DO SO.

AND SO WE ARE EAGERLY AWAITING THE AUDIT RESULTS, AND THAT IS YET TO COME.

CRYSTAL: AND BUD, IF THIS AUDIT RESULT FROM THE STATE AUDITOR'’S OFFICE MIRRORS, OR EVEN HAS MORE CLAIMS ARE COMPLAINTS THAT WE SEE FROM THIS PRIVATE REPORT, WHAT THEN CAN HAPPEN ON THE STATE LEVEL TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS TYPE OF THING DOES NOT CONTINUE TO HAPPEN?

BUD: I WILL CHIME IN A LITTLE HEAVIER THAN THAT.

WE DON'’T NEED TO WAIT FOR THE STATE AUDITOR'’S REPORT.

I AM VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE ATTORNEYS WHO WORK ON THIS.

PEOPLE HAVE COME FORWARD -- AND IT IS ONGOING.

I THINK THE ATTORNEYS WILL BE THERE FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER.

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW I AM HEARING AND GETTING PHONE CALLS -- PEOPLE ALWAYS DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE PROCESS.

THEY DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IF THEY CAME FORWARD AGAINST THE MOST POWERFUL CLAUSE I.E.

AGENCIES IN THE COMMONWEALTH THAT THEY WOULD BE RETALIATED AGAINST.

NOW THAT THEY SEE THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING, THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN, MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME FORWARD.

SO I THINK GOVERNOR HEALY, TO HER CREDIT, REFOCUSED THE BOARD, PUT MANY NEW BOARD MEMBERS ON THAT BOARD.

AND I THINK THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SOMETHING NOW.

I DON'’T NEED THE AUDITOR'’S REPORT FROM THE INFORMATION I HAVE RECEIVED IN READING THE REPORT, WHICH IS NOT FINAL.

I DON'’T THINK IT IS THE FINAL REPORT AS OF YET.

I THINK THEY HAVE ENOUGH AMMUNITION AS OF NOW TO MAKE STRUCTURAL CHANGES.

IT IS VERY EMBARRASSING WHEN YOU HAVE FOLKS WHO MAKE COMPLAINTS, RACIAL COMPLAINTS, BUT THEN A QUASI-AGENCY OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS AND THEY FALL ON DEAF EARS.

THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES.

WE HAVE EVIDENCE, WHICH WE ALWAYS REALLY BELIEVED BUT NEVER HAD THE WRITTEN DOCUMENT, THAT THAT MEANS BIG CHANGES OVER THERE.

YOU CAN GO FROM TOP FROM BOTTOM, CLEAN HOUSE, GET SOME NEW LEADERSHIP, AND LET'’S GO FORWARD.

CRYSTAL: I WONDER ABOUT THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ABILITY OF THIS ENTITY TO POLICE THEMSELVES.

YOU MENTIONED A TASK FORCE AND SOME OTHER INTERNAL THINGS HAPPENING AS A RESULT OF THE REPORT WE HAVE NOW BY THIS PRIVATE COMPANY.

BUT IS THERE A FAITH IN THE FOLKS YOU ARE TALKING WITH AND COMMUNICATING WITH THAT THEY CAN POLICE THEMSELVES OR COURSE CORRECT?

TORI: TO BUILD ON WHAT BUD SAID, WE DON'’T HAVE TO RELY ON THEM JUST POLICING THEMSELVES.

NOT ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE WAITING FOR THE AUDIT, BUT BECAUSE OF THIS REPORT.

AT THE TIME OF THIS INVESTIGATION, THERE WAS ONE LEGAL COMPLAINT FILED WITH THE MASSACHUSETTS OFFICE AGAINST DISCRIMINATION, AND NOW THERE HAVE BEEN TWO, AND THERE IS A THIRD ONE PURPORTEDLY COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE.

AND POTENTIALLY MORE AND MORE.

I THINK THOSE LEGAL COMPLAINTS KIND OF BUILDING, AND THE PUBLIC PRESSURE THAT IS MOUNTING, I THINK THAT IS WHERE WE WILL SEE A PRESSURE FOR THEM TO MAKE THESE CHANGES INTERNALLY.

OTHERWISE, THERE COULD BE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES, I THINK.

AND I THINK THEY KNOW THAT NOW.

THEY HAVE AT LEAST BEEN PUBLICLY AGREEING TO COOPERATE WITH US AND MAKE IT MORE OF A PRIORITY.

AS THE REPORT SAYS, THE FINANCIAL BOTTOM LINE HAS BEEN THE PRIORITY, AND THIS HAS REALLY BEEN JUST A HUGE OVERSIGHT.

IT IS JUST NOT THOUGHT ABOUT AND IT HAS BEEN OVERLOOKED AND I THINK NOW THEY SAY THEY ARE GOING TO START MAKING CHANGES, SO HOPEFULLY THAT HAPPENS.

CRYSTAL: CERTAINLY THIS IS A CONVERSATION WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO FOLLOW AND A STORY I AM SURE IS STILL DEVELOPING.

TORI AND BUD, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

NEXT, THERE HAS BEEN NO SHORTAGE OF COMMENTS AS WE WATCH THE HORRIFIC SCENES PLAYING OUT IN ISRAEL AND GAZA, WHERE SEVERAL THOUSAND ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

STATEMENTS HAVE POURED IAN FROM PRETTY MUCH EVERY DIRECTION TO COMMENT ON THE HAMAS ATTACK AND THE WAR THAT HAS FOLLOWED, INCLUDING AMAZON, AMERICAN EAGLE, THE NFL, AND EVEN LOCAL FITNESS STUDIOS.

PLENTY OF BUSINESSES HAVE ALSO TAKEN HEAT FOR THE WAY THAT THEY CHOSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE VIOLENCE.

IT RAISES THE QUESTION, DID WE REALLY NEED TO HEAR FROM THEM ABOUT THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

AND WHAT KIND OF RESPONSIBILITIES TO COMPANIES HAVE WHEN TRAGEDY STRIKES HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD?

I AM JOINED BY SANDY LISH, PRINCIPAL AND COFOUNDER OF THE CASTLE GROUP, AND KELLEY CHUNN , PRINCIPAL OF KELLEY CHUNN ASSOCIATES HERE IN BOSTON.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

SO, SANDY, I WILL START WITH YOU.

AS WE LOOK AT THESE COMPANIES FIGURING OUT WHAT TO SAY, IF TO SAY SOMETHING, AND HOW THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE REACTING, WHAT IS THE ADVICE THAT YOU GIVE FOLKS THAT ARE UNDER YOUR PURVIEW?

SANDY: IT IS SO COMPLICATED.

IT IS SO SUBJECTIVE AND THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS.

SO, THE FIRST THING FOR ANYONE TO FIGURE OUT IS, WHY AM I COMMENTING?

IS THERE A GOOD REASON?

IS THERE SOMETHING HAPPENING WITHIN MY STAKEHOLDER GROUP THAT DRIVES ME TO HAVE TO?

IS THIS JUST STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE AND I ALWAYS DO, SO BY NOT COMMENTING IT'’S AN OMISSION?

OR IS IT JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DOING IT, OR CHIMING IN AND LOOKING FOR ATTENTION?

THERE ARE SO MANY REASONS.

THAT IS REALLY WHERE EVERYONE MUST START.

WHY AM I CHIMING IN?

KELLEY: THERE ARE NUMEROUS REASONS.

I MEAN, WE HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION AT MY CLASSROOM RECENTLY.

I ALSO TEACH AT THE COLLEGE OF COMMUNICATION.

AND WE WERE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE REASONS WHY COMPANIES RESPONDED.

ONE WAS PURELY LOGISTICAL.

DELTA, FOR EXAMPLE.

THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES WERE SAFE, AND THEY AND OTHER AIRLINES WERE STOPPING FLIGHTS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND TEL AVIV FOR SAFETY.

OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WANTED TO REFLECT THEIR VALUES.

JAMIE DIMON, FOR EXAMPLE, MORGAN CHASE.

HE PUT OUT SOMETHING WHERE HE UNEQUIVOCALLY DENOUNCED THE ATTACK, BUT WENT FURTHER.

IN ACKNOWLEDGING THE HISTORY OF THE CONFLICT, AND REALLY ADVOCATING FOR PEACE IN THE REGION.

SO, DIFFERENT KINDS OF STATEMENTS.

SOME REFLECTING AN ORGANIZATION'’S VALUES AND FEELING A NEED TO EXPRESS THEM.

OTHER COMPANIES HAVING BUSINESS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, EMPLOYEES.

ONE COMPANY, I CANNOT REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT, THEY HAVE BEEN DOING BUSINESS IN ISRAEL FOR 60 YEARS.

SO THEY PUT OUT AN UNEQUIVOCAL STATEMENT CONDEMNING THE ATTACKS.

SO, IT RUNS THE GAMUT, AND IT DOES START WITH THE WHY.

CRYSTAL: IS THERE A CONCERN THAT EMPLOYEES WILL BE UPSET THAT THERE WAS NOT A LARGER CONVERSATION?

AND THEN HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT, IF AN EMPLOYEE DECIDES TO POST ON THEIR OWN SOCIAL MEDIA?

SANDY: WE ARE SEEING ALL SORTS OF THINGS PLAY OUT, JUST LIKE THAT AND FOR THOSE REASONS, IN EVERY SENSE OF THE SPECTRUM.

AND THE KINDS OF CONFLAGRATIONS HAPPENING IN DIFFERENT BUSINESSES.

PEOPLE LOSING JOBS, PEOPLE BEING DOXXED, PEOPLE NOT FEELING SAFE AT WORK.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS TO PARSE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE STATEMENT THAT FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE ATTACK.

A TERRORIST ATTACK BY AN ORGANIZED TERRORIST GROUP.

INNOCENT CIVILIANS -- SO, HAMAS TERRORIZING INNOCENT ISRAELI, MOSTLY JEWISH CIVILIANS, GOING ABOUT THEIR EVERYDAY BUSINESS.

IN THE WAKE OF THAT, THAT SEEMS PRETTY CUT AND DRY.

WITHOUT GETTING INTO GEOPOLITICS , BEING ABLE TO DENOUNCE IT TERRORIST ATTACK ON THE FACE SEEMS PRETTY SAFE.

WHERE IT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC IS WHEN ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE REALLY NOT IN THE POSITION, LIKELY FITNESS CENTER YOU REFERENCED, BUT ALSO MANY OTHERS -- IT IS NOT THEIR DUTY OR RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY AND EXPLAIN WHAT IS SO COMPLICATED, SO NUANCED, AND SO ANCIENT.

AND WE HAVE SEEN MANY INSTANCES WHERE FOLKS DID TRY AND DO THAT THEY WERE LEFT WITH A BIGGER MESS THAN THEY EVER ANTICIPATED.

CRYSTAL: KELLEY, I AM ALSO THOUGHTFUL OF TOWNS.

I LIVE IN ARLINGTON AND OUR HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION PUT OUT A STATEMENT.

THERE WAS BOTH PRAISE AND CRITICISM FOR THAT.

AT WHAT POINT DO YOU JUST SAY, WE ARE GOING TO LET THE RELIGIOUS GROUPS, OR THE ETHNIC GROUPS IN THAT TOWN LEAD THE CONVERSATION AND SIT BACK AND SUPPORT WHATEVER STATEMENT THEY PUT OUT?

KELLEY: SOME OF THESE BASED GROUPS HAVE COME TOGETHER IN SUPPORT.

OTHERS THAT ARE NOT IN THE FAITH COMMUNITY, THE BOSTON'’S CITY COUNCIL FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK THERE WAS SOME DRAMA THERE IN DISCUSSING THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, THE LATEST CHAPTER IN AN ONGOING DRAMA WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

BUT I THINK THE FAITH-BASED COMMUNITY CAN BE A CALMING FORCE AT A TIME THAT IS SO FRAUGHT, AND THAT IS SO EMOTIONAL.

CRYSTAL: YEAH, DEFINITELY.

WE WANT TO PULL IN A PIECE OF DATA THAT WE GOT.

A 2023 GALLUP UNIVERSITY FORCE FOR GORD REPORT ON IF BUSINESSES SHOULD WEIGH IN.

THE QUESTION WAS, SHOULD BUSINESSES TAKE A PUBLIC STANCE ON CURRENT EVENTS.

59% OF YOUNG PEOPLE, 18 TO 29, SAID YES.

BUT WHEN YOU GO HIGHER UP THE AGE SCALE, AGE 60 AND OVER, 43%.

SANDY, DO THOSE NUMBERS APPRISE YOU?

SANDY: IT DOES NOT SURPRISE ME.

NEITHER OF THOSE GROUPS.

BUT IT DOES SURPRISE ME, BECAUSE THE YOUNGER FOLKS HAVE BEEN ACCUSTOMED TO THIS.

THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE GROWN UP WITH.

WHEN GEORGE FLOYD WAS KILLED, EVERYBODY WAS ISSUING A STATEMENT AND A LETTER.

WHEN JANUARY 6 HAPPENED, LOTS OF STATEMENTS.

SO THEY HAVE COME TO EXPECT IT.

AND OLDER WORKERS HAVE NOT COME TO EXPECT IT.

IT IS ALSO THE NUANCE OF WHAT IS SHARED, WHAT IS SHARED AND DISCUSSED OPENLY IS VERY DIFFERENT AMONGST YOUNGER GENERATIONS THAN IN OLDER GENERATIONS.

WHAT IS CONSIDERED TO BE, YOU DON'’T TALK POLITICS, MONEY, OR RELIGION, WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND I DO LOVE THAT BENTLEY STUDY.

I SAW THAT THIS MORNING, AND THERE'’S A LOT OF GREAT DATA.

THAT QUESTION IS SUCH A BLANKET QUESTION.

AND SO, THERE IS SO MUCH TO DIG INTO.

AND WITHOUT RISKING SOUNDING LIKE I'’M A BROKEN RECORD, WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNICATIONS, YOU HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT ALL THE FACTS AND ALL THE CONTEXT.

THERE IS NOT ANY ONE RIGHT OR WRONG WAY.

BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUST, DID YOU OR SHOULD YOU RESPOND, IT IS HOW YOU RESPOND.

HOW, WHEN, WHY, TO WHOM, IS IT EXTERNAL, IS IT INTERNAL?

KELLEY: SO MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS.

CRYSTAL: YEAH.

AS WE SEE THE BREAKDOWN OF IT, IT SEEMS LIKE FOLKS ARE REALLY IN THE MIDDLE, ON THE FENCE.

30 TO 44, 51%.

45 TO 59, 41%.

IT DOES NOT SEEM LIKE ANYONE IS 100%, OR REALLY SKEWED TOWARDS YES OR SKEWED TOWARDS NO.

PEOPLE ARE SORT OF SITTING IN THE MIDDLE.

KELLEY: THE YOUNGER DEMOGRAPHIC, AS SANDY NOTED, THAT DOES NOT REALLY SURPRISE ME, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE FOR THE MOST PART OUT INDUSTRY DEMONSTRATING.

MANY OF THE COLLEGES, FOR EXAMPLE, BOSTON UNIVERSITY HAD A DEMONSTRATION A FEW WEEKS AGO OUT IN FRONT OF MARSH CHAPEL.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATIONS, 100,000 PEOPLE SHOWED UP ON THE STREETS OF LONDON.

A LOT OF THOSE CROWDS ARE COMPOSED OF YOUNG PEOPLE, WHO ARE USED TO DEMONSTRATING AND TALKING ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS AND JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF COMFORT IN TALKING ABOUT THESE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES.

THE OTHER DATA, I AM NOT SO SURE ABOUT.

[LAUGHTER] CRYSTAL: OF COURSE.

I AM CURIOUS THOUGH, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE GROUPS OF FOLKS WHO, SANDY, AS YOU MENTIONED, HAVE EXPECTED A REACTION, OR TO PLAY THINGS OUT PUBLICLY ANNA LEIGH -- PUBLICLY ANYWAY.

SO HOW DO YOU BALANCE IF YOU ARE IN A C-SUITE TO NOT BE NECESSARILY DISTRACTED BY CURRENT EVENTS, KEEP THINGS GOING CERTAIN WAY, OR HAVE OTHER MESSAGING?

SANDY: THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.

RIGHT IN THE WAKE OF ONE SOMETHING CATASTROPHIC HAPPENS, COMMUNICATORS LOOK INSIDE AND SAY, WAIT, WE WERE GOING TO BE RELEASING THIS, OR WE HAD A STORY WE WERE GOING TO PITCH TO CRYSTAL'’S TEAM AT GBH, AND NOW IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO DO THIS.

SO THAT ISRAEL.

YOU HAVE TO NOT BE -- SO THAT IS REAL.

YOU HAVE TO NOT BE TONE DEAF.

IT DOES GO BACK TO, IS IT EXPECTED?

DO YOU HAVE A REASON?

DOES THIS AFFECT YOUR BUSINESS?

IS THERE SOMETHING HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THIS THAT IS CREATING SOME SORT OF TEMPERATURE WITHIN YOUR INSTITUTION?

BUT I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS STAY IN YOUR LANE.

WHAT IS YOUR LANE?

WHAT IS YOUR REASON, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS, AND DON'’T TRY TO BLEED OUT INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'’S LANE, BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN IT DOES BECOME CHALLENGING.

CRYSTAL: KELLEY, OUR TEAM IS LOOKING AT EXAMPLES OF THIS AND PREPPING FOR THE SHOW, AND SAW A LOT OF COMPANIES OR ORGANIZATIONS, IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO RESPOND TO EVERYONE, IS CONFLATING THINGS LIKE RESPONDING TO BLACK LIVES MATTER, OR EVEN AFTER JANUARY 6, OR AAPI ISSUES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE LIKE, WELL, WE RESPONDED TO THIS, WE HAVE TO RESPOND TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ISRAEL AND GAZA.

CONFLATING THOSE ISSUES HAS ITS OWN CHALLENGES AND DANGERS, REALLY.

CRYSTAL: WHAT SANDY -- KELLEY: WHAT SANDY HAD SAID ABOUT START WITH THE WHY, THINK ABOUT YOUR AUDIENCE, THINK ABOUT THE MESSAGING, AND WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES BY PUTTING ON YOUR STATEMENT.

EACH ONE OF THESE ISSUES HAS ITS OWN LANE, SO TO SPEAK.

AND COMPANIES NEED TO LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.

THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW.

THAT WAS THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF ISSUE.

AND THE MESSAGING REQUIRES ATTENTION TO THE MOMENT.

AND NOT TO WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE DONE IN AN EARLIER SCENARIO.

CRYSTAL: I AM GOING TO PUT YOU BOTH ON THE SPOT A LITTLE BIT.

IS THERE ANY ORGANIZATION THAT YOU ALL KNOW OF THAT IS HANDLING THIS WELL IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THEIR STATEMENT THEY PUT OUT, A RESPONSE OR REACTION, OR EVEN THEIR SILENCE?

IS THERE ANYPLACE YOU THINK IS GETTING IT RIGHT RIGHT NOW, IN YOUR OPINION?

KELLEY: THE ARTICLE YOU WERE QUOTED IN, IN P.R.

DAILY, WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT CRISIS COMMUNICATION SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE MIDDLE EAST CRISIS, THEY POINTED OUT THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA AND THE PRESIDENT WHO WAS RESPONDING TO STUDENT ACTIVITIES ON CAMPUS, AN D HAVING TO, NOT ONLY CONDEMN THE TERRORISM ACT, FULL STOP, UNEQUIVOCALLY, BUT ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING THE STUDENT'’S RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH AND FREE EXPRESSION.

WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH THEIR ADVOCACY, BUT THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT, PARTICULARLY ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS, TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS.

SO, MAKING BOTH STATEMENTS VERY CLEAR AS TO WHERE THE UNIVERSITY STOOD.

I THOUGHT THEY DID A GOOD JOB.

SANDY: THAT WAS A GOOD ONE.

STICKING WITH HIGHER ED, TULANE DID A VERY FANTASTIC JOB, VERY SIMILAR REASONS.

SINCE THEN, THERE'’S A LETTER THAT HAS BEEN SIGNED BY MANY INSTITUTIONAL PRESIDENTS AND CHANCELLORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT SPEAKS WITH ONE VOICE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS EXCELLENT TOO.

I THINK THAT WAS ORGANIZED BY YESHIVA UNIVERSITY.

BUT IT IS BIPARTISAN, NONSECULAR, AND THERE ARE PRESIDENTS AND CHANCELLORS FROM OUR REGIONS THAT HAVE SIGNED.

CRYSTAL: SANDY, KELLEY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT BUT WE WILL BE BACK TOMORROW.

I AM CRYSTAL HAYNES.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

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