JOHN: TONIGHT ON PBS NEWS WEEKEND.

AS PRESIDENT TRUMP KICKS OFF HIS ASIA TOUR WITH A FESTIVE STOP IN MALAYSIA, TENSIONS APPEAR TO EASE WITH CHINA AS THE TWO COUNTRIES SAY A TRADE DEAL MAY BE CLOSE.

THEN, THE FUTURE OF WAR AND WHY SOME BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES IS IN CATCH-UP MODE WHEN IT COMES TO THE LATEST TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES.

AND, THE STRUGGLE MANY MEN FACE MAINTAINING DEEP MALE FRIENDSHIPS LATER IN LIFE.

SAM: I HAD ALWAYS SEEN MYSELF AS A HYPER SOCIAL PERSON, SOMEBODY WITH TONS OF FRIENDS WHEN I WAS A YOUNGER MAN, HOW DID I GET TO THE POINT WHERE IN MY 30S AND 40S, I WAS SPENDING MOST WEEKEND NIGHTS IN MY HOUSE, NOT GOING OUT, NOT SEEING FRIENDS?

♪ JOHN: GOOD EVENING.

I'M JOHN YANG.

ON THE FIRST DAY OF HIS NEARLY WEEK LONG ASIA TRIP, PRESIDENT TRUMP SOUGHT TO SHIFT ATTENTION FROM CONTROVERSIES AT HOME TO DEALS STRUCK WITH ALLIES IN THE REGION.

IN CO-ALL OF THEM POOR FOR A SUMMIT OF ASIAN LEADERS, -- IN KUALA LUMPUR FOR A SUMMIT OF ASIAN LEADERS, MR.

TRUMP TOOK PART IN A CEREMONY TO SIGN A SERIES OF AGREEMENTS.

AN ACCORD ENDING THE BRIEF WAR BETWEEN CAMBODIA AND THAILAND, AND ECONOMIC DEALS WITH BOTH OF THOSE NATIONS AND WITH MALAYSIA.

ADDRESSING THE SUMMIT, MR.

TRUMP TRIED TO REASSURE A REGION THAT'S BEEN HIT HARD BY U.S.

TARIFFS.

>> MY MESSAGE TO THE NATIONS OF SOUTHEAST ASIA IS THAT THE UNITED STATES IS WITH YOU 100 PERCENT AND WE INTEND TO BE A STRONG PARTNER AND FRIEND FOR MANY GENERATIONS TO COME.

TOGETHER WE'LL CREATE INCREDIBLE PROSPERITY FOR THE NATIONS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PACIFIC OCEAN AND TO SEIZE NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL OF OUR PEOPLE.

JOHN: ON NBC'S MEET THE PRESS, TREASURY SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT SAID THE ADMINISTRATION IS CLOSING IN ON A TRADE DEAL WITH CHINA.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP GAVE ME A GREAT DEAL OF NEGOTIATING LEVERAGE WITH THE NEW THREAT OF 100% TARIFFS ON NOVEMBER 1, AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE REACHED A VERY SUBSTANTIAL FRAMEWORK THAT WILL AVOID THAT, AND ALLOW US TO DISCUSS MANY OTHER THINGS WITH THE CHINESE.

OHN: U.S.

AND CHINESE NEGOTIATORS AIM TO HAVE A FINAL DEAL BY THURSDAY WHEN THE PRESIDENT MEETS WITH CHINESE LEADER XI JINPING IN SOUTH KOREA.

JONATHAN CZIN OF THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION WAS CHINA DIRECTOR ON PRESIDENT BIDEN'S NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND A SENIOR CHINA ANALYST FOR THE CIA.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THIS FRAMEWORK THE SECRETARY WAS TALKING ABOUT?

IS IT LIKELY TO LEAD TO SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL, OR IS THIS JUST SOMETHING TO HAVE FOR THE MEETING ON THURSDAY?

>> I THINK THIS IS MORE THE LATTER, SOMETHING TO HAVE FOR THE MEETING FOR THURSDAY.

THIS HAS KIND OF BEEN THE STORY THROUGHOUT THIS TRADE WORSENS LIBERATION DAY IN APRIL WHERE YOU HAVE SKIRMISHES BETWEEN THE SIDES, BUT THEN THE PARTICULARS WILL COME DOWN TO FOCUSING ON HER RELATIVELY NARROW AGREEMENTS ON EITHER SPECIFIC SECTORS OR SPECIFIC FIRMS WITHOUT EVER GETTING TO THE STRATEGIC TRADE ISSUES THAT ESSENTIALLY ANIMATED THE TRADE WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THERE WAS TALK FROM THE U.S.

SIDE ABOUT CHINESE PURCHASERS OF SOVIET DUTCH SOYBEANS, EXPORT CONTROLS ON RARE EARTH ELEMENTS AND A DEAL ON TIKTOK.

> BOTH SIDES HAVE DISCUSSED MAY BE A FENTANYL DEAL, BUT THE CHINESE SITE HAS ALSO MENTIONED ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE ASPECTS LIKE U.S.

LEVEES ON CHINESE SHIPS ACCESSING REPORTS.

JOHN: BESIDES TRADE, WHAT ARE THE OTHER TOPICS>>?

PRESIDENT TRUMP BROUGHT UP THE POSSIBILITY OF UKRAINE WITH THE CHINESE SIDE, AND TAIWAN HAS COME UP AS A POSSIBLE AREA OF DISCUSSION AS WELL.

TRADE HAS BEEN THE PREDOMINANT FOCUS WHICH IS WHY THE MAIN CONDUIT OF EXCHANGE HAS RUN THROUGH THE VICE PREMIER OF THE CHINESE SIDE AND SECRETARY BESSENT ON THE U.S.

SIDE.

WHAT IS AT STAKE FOR THIS?

> FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP, THERE'S A FAIR BIT AT STAKE, THERE IS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT TO DEMONSTRATE HIS PERSONA AS A DEALMAKER.

FOR PRESIDENT XI, I THINK THE GOALS ARE LESS AMBITIOUS.

HE'S LOOKING TO SUSTAIN RELIEF HE SECURED EARLIER IN THE YEAR FROM U.S.

TRADE MEASURES.

I THINK HE SEES THAT AS A WIN FOR RIGHT NOW.

JOHN: WHAT IS THE RELATIVE BARGAINING STRENGTH WITH THE LEADERS AS THEY GO INTO THE MEETING?

IS ONE SIDE AND A STRONGER POSITION?

> FROM THE U.S.

SIDE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CARDS THE U.S.

HAS TO PLAY.

FROM THE CHINESE PERSPECTIVE, WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO READ INTO THIS AND WHAT THEY READ INTO THE TRADE WERE SO FAR IS THAT THE U.S.

SIDE DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE THE APPETITE.

PART OF WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE RUN-UP TO THIS MEETING IS THAT THE CHINESE SIDES HAVE SWITCHED FROM PLAYING DEFENSE FROM MOST OF THE YEAR LARGELY REACTING TO U.S.

POLICY MOVES TO PLAYING OFFENSE FOR EXPANSIVE EXPORT CONTROLS ON RARE EARTH ELEMENTS WITH CHINA HAS A CHOKEHOLD OVER.

THE FACT THAT THE U.S.

SIDE DID NOT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THREATS TO RETALIATE, BEIJING WILL SEE THAT AS A SIGN THAT THEY CAN ENACT THESE MEASURES WITH IMPUNITY, AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, I THINK WE ARE IN FOR ANOTHER ROUND OF SKIRMISHING AND FURTHER BUMPY ROUNDS IN THE TRADE WERE IN 2026.

JOHN: MR.

TRUMP HAS OTHER MEETINGS, GOING TO JAPAN TO MEET WITH THE NEW PRIME MINISTER, AND IN SOUTH KOREA AT THE APEX SUMMIT.

WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING FOR?

> THE FACT THAT THE MEETING IS OCCURRING AT ALL IS SIGNIFICANT FOR THE JAPANESE.

WE ARE DEALING WITH A NEW PRIME MINISTER AND WHEN THAT'S NEW TO INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMACY.

SHE IS FROM THE MORE CONSERVATIVE WING OF THE PARTY AND HAD SAID BEFORE THAT SHE MIGHT BE TOUGHER WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BUT WE HAVE NOT SEEN EVIDENCE OF THAT SINCE SHE'S TAKEN OFFICE.

INSTEAD WHAT WE SAW ON FRIDAY BEFORE HER MEETING WAS AN INDICATION THAT JAPAN WOULD ELEVATE ITS DEFENSE SPENDING FROM 1% TO 2% OF ITS GDP.

JOHN: AND THE APEX MEETING?

>> THIS WILL BE TOUGHER THE SOUTH KOREAN SIDE, TRUMPS MEETING WITH PRESIDENT XI IS OVERSHADOWING THE WHOLE EVENT.

I THINK THERE ARE GOING TO BE DETAILS THEY ARE FOCUSED ON.

THEY HAVE THEIR OWN TRADE NEGOTIATIONS THEY ARE LOOKING TO FINALIZE AND I THINK THEY ARE HOPING TO LOCK THAT UP.

ONE OF THE MOST METAL SUBMISSIONS IS WHAT TO DO ABOUT THIS $350 IN -- $350 MILLION INVESTMENT FUND.

NOT JUST FOR THE KOREANS BUT THROUGHOUT THE REGION, BECAUSE THERE HAS NOT BEEN A CLEAR INDO PACIFIC STRATEGY ARTICULATED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEY WILL SEE THE MEETING AS A PROXY SIGN FOR THE ADMINISTRATION'S BROADER APPROACH TO THE REGION.

JOHN: JONATHAN CZIN OF THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IN TONIGHT'S OTHER HEADLINES, POLICE HAVE MADE TWO ARRESTS IN LAST WEEKEND'S DARING DAY-LIGHT THEFT OF CROWN JEWELS FROM THE LOUVRE MUSEUM.

FRENCH INVESTIGATORS SAID THE ARRESTS WERE MADE LATE SATURDAY AND THAT THE MEN, BOTH IN THEIR 30S, ARE KNOWN TO POLICE.

ONE OF THEM WAS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AT CHARLES DE GAULLE AIRPORT WHILE PREPARING TO FLEE TO ALGERIA.

POLICE HAVEN'T SAID IF ANY OF THE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR JEWELS HAVE BEEN RECOVERED.

THEY WERE TAKEN IN A THEFT THAT TOOK LESS THAN 10 MINUTES FROM START TO FINISH.

AUTHORITIES SAY THE THIEVES CLOSED AS CONSTRUCTION WORKERS AND FORCED OPEN A WINDOW.

HURRICANE MELISSA IS NOW A CATEGORY FOUR STORM AND FORECASTERS ARE WARNING OF POTENTIALLY LIFE-THREATENING CONDITIONS IN JAMAICA, CUBA, AND THE BAHAMAS.

THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER PREDICTS THE SLOW-MOVING STORM COULD STRENGTHEN TONIGHT TO CATEGORY FIVE AS IT CHURNS IN THE WARM WATERS OF THE CARRIBEAN.

ACROSS JAMAICA, RESIDENTS GATHERED SUPPLIES, MOVED INLAND AND PREPARED FOR THE WORST.

THE SYSTEM IS EXPECTED TO DROP UP TO 30 INCHES OF RAIN OVER THE NEXT 72-HOURS.

AT LEAST FOUR STORM-RELATED DEATHS HAVE ALREADY BEEN REPORTED IN HAITI AND THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.

IN GAZA HAMAS HAS EXPANDED THE , SEARCH FOR REMAINS OF DEAD HOSTAGES.

EGYPT DEPLOYED A TEAM OF EXPERTS AND HEAVY EQUIPMENT TO HUNT THROUGH RUBBLE FOR THE BODIES OF THE REMAINING 13 HOSTAGES, INCLUDING TWO AMERICANS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SAID HE'S "WATCHING VERY CLOSELY" TO BE SURE HAMAS RETURNS THE BODIES IN THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

MEANWHILE, THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAID THE TARGET OF AN OVERNIGHT STRIKE IN THE NUSSEIRAT REFUGEE CAMP IN CENTRAL GAZA WAS SOMEONE PLANNING AN IMMINENT ATTACK ON IDF TROOPS.

IT'S THE LATEST STRAIN ON THE FRAGILE CEASEFIRE, AS ISRAEL AND HAMAS ACCUSE EACH OTHER OF VIOLATIONS.

AND ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU SAID HE WILL SOON NAME THE COUNTRIES THAT WILL BE PART OF A GAZA PEACEKEEPING FORCE.

(UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED AND OVERNIGHT, RUSH OUT BATTERED UKRAINE'S CAPITAL WITH DEADLY DRONE STRIKES.

AT LEAST THREE PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN KYIV, INCLUDING A MOTHER AND HER TEENAGE DAUGHTER.

29 OTHERS WERE INJURED.

UKRAINE'S AIR FORCE SAID IT SHOT DOWN MOST OF THE 100 DRONES THAT WERE LAUNCHED BUT SEVERAL MADE IT THROUGH THEIR DEFENSES.

EMERGENCY CREWS EVACUATED RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS -- BUT RUSSIA SAYS ITS ONLY TARGETS WERE EMERGENCY FACILITIES AND MILITARY INSTALLATIONS.

STILL TO COME ON PBS NEWS WEEKEND WHY SOME BELIEVE THE , UNITED STATES RISKS LOSING ITS DOMINANCE IN WAR.

AND, HOW MEN ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE COLLAPSE OF MALE FRIENDSHIP.

JOHN: IN A RECENT ADDRESS TO TOP MILITARY LEADERS, DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH LAID OUT HIS AMBITIOUS VISION FOR THE PENTAGON.

>> THIS URGENT MOMENT OF COURSE REQUIRES MORE TROOPS, MORE MUNITIONS, MORE DRONES, MORE PATRIOTS, MORE SUBMARINES, MORE B-21 BOMBERS.

IT REQUIRES MORE INNOVATION, MORE AI IN EVERYTHING AND AHEAD OF THE CURVE, MORE CYBER EFFECTS, MORE COUNTER UAS, MORE SPACE, MORE SPEED.

AMERICA IS THE STRONGEST BUT WE NEED TO GET STRONGER AND QUICKLY.

JOHN: BUT QUESTIONS REMAIN ABOUT HOW THE MILITARY TRANSLATES THAT "MORE OF EVERYTHING" VISION INTO REALITY -- ESPECIALLY AS TECHNOLOGIES LIKE DRONES AND AI RAPIDLY TRANSFORM THE BATTLEFIELD.

ALI ROGIN SPOKE WITH RETIRED ARMY COLONEL KEN GLYMAN, THE EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE "SMALL WARS JOURNAL," AND A PROFESSOR AT ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE KNOW A PRIORITY FOR THE MILITARY IS FINDING OUT WHICH TECHNOLOGIES TO INVEST IN.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES LIKE SMALLER, MORE AGILE AND CHEAPER TO DEVELOP DRONES, AND WHAT ARE DRAWBACKS?

>> WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INEXPENSIVE BUT POTENTIALLY LETHAL AND HIGHLY CAPABLE SYSTEMS, ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS THAT IT ARE CHEAPER AND THEY CAN CROSS THE BATTLEFIELD WITHOUT RISKING THE LIFE OF AN INDIVIDUAL HUMAN.

WE ARE SEEING THIS INNOVATION CYCLE IN THE CURRENTAND WE ARE MORE USE TO MORE EXPENSIVE BOUTIQUE SYSTEMS THAT TAKE A LONG TIME TO DEVELOP AND THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE.

SO THE QUESTION FOR THE U.S.

RIGHT NOW IS HOW TO GET THESE TYPES OF SYSTEMS THAT ARE LESS EXPENSIVE THAT ARE HIGHLY, AS I SAID, ATTRIBUTABLE AND EXPENSIVE.

ALI: AND DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE U.S.

IS REALLY IN CATCH-UP MODE WHEN IT COMES TO INVESTING IN THESE TYPES OF INNOVATIONS?

KEN: I THINK THE US IS IN CATCH-UP MODE, CERTAINLY DEPENDING ON WHO YOU'RE COMPARING THE U.S.

TO .

WHEN IT COMES THESE TYPES OF SYSTEMS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE US MAY HAVE SOME REALLY GREAT SYSTEMS AND TECHNOLOGY AROUND, BUT ACTUALLY HAVING THE SUPPLY CHAINS AND THE INNOVATION CHAINS AND THE PROCUREMENT SYSTEMS TO BUILD, ACQUIRE, AND THEN TO INTEGRATE THESE SYSTEMS INTO FORMATIONS.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S WHERE MOST EXPERTS WOULD AGREE THE U.S.

IS FAR BEHIND.

THE U.S.

HAS THESE TRADITIONS OF VERY EXPENSIVE, VERY EXQUISITE SYSTEMS AND NOW THE DEFENSE COMMUNITY IS SEEING THE NEED TO CHANGE AND CHANGE RAPIDLY.

ALI: ARE TOOLS LIKE AI AND DRONES THOUGH, FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING THE NATURE OF WARFARE?

KEN: THE NATURE OF WAR REMAINS THE SAME AND REMAINS CONSTANT, BUT THE CHARACTER OF WARFARE IS WHAT CHANGES OVER TIME.

AND IT CHANGES PARTLY BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY BUT ALSO TRENDS IN HUMAN SOCIETY.

AND SO I THINK THESE CURRENT CONFLICTS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN UKRAINE, IF ANYTHING, THEY REMIND US OF THE CONSTANT NATURE OF THE WARFARE THAT IT IS A HUMAN ENDEAVOR AND THAT IT IS FILLED WITH VIOLENCE AND CHANCE AND SUFFERING FOR THOSE INVOLVED.

BUT WE ARE SEEING SOME DIFFERENCES IN THE WAYS THAT WARS ARE FOUGHT.

AND I THINK THAT DRONES, AUTONOMOUS SYSTEMS, AI, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A BIT MORE OF.

ALI: WHAT LESSONS CAN AND SHOULD THE MILITARY BE LEARNING FROM CURRENT CONFLICTS LIKE ISRAEL-GAZA, LIKE RUSSIA- UKRAINE?

KEN: WE'RE SEEING INCREDIBLE ADAPTATION IN THE WAR IN UKRAINE THAT'S HAPPENING IN WEEKS, NOT MONTHS OR YEARS.

INNOVATION IS HAPPENING BETWEEN BATTLES, NOT BETWEEN CAMPAIGNS OR OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR.

THAT RAPID INNOVATION CYCLE, CHANGING THE WAY UNITS ARE FORMED, THE WAY THEY FIGHT, THE TOOLS THEY USED, IT IS QUITE HARD TO KEEP UP WITH THAT.

I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSONS THAT THE U.S.

IS TRYING TO LEARN IS HOW DO WE REPLICATE THAT BEFORE YOU HAVE THE PRESSURE, THE NECESSITY THAT HAPPENS WITHIN ARMED CONFLICT?

HOW DO YOU CREATE INSTITUTIONS THAT CAN RAPIDLY ADAPT AND SCALE CAPABILITIES THAT BECOME IMPORTANT IN THE CONFLICT?

THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST SURPRISING LESSONS AND WE'VE SEEN U.K.

BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

WE'VE SEEN RUSSIA A LITTLE SLOWER, BUT BE ABLE TO DO THAT AS WELL.

ALI: SECRETARY HEGSETH HAS TALKED ABOUT NEEDING MORE OF BASICALLY EVERYTHING, MORE TROOPS, MORE BIG WEAPONS, MORE NIMBLE WEAPONS, MORE STRENGTH.

IS THAT REALISTIC FOR A DEFENSE DEPARTMENT WHICH IS WELL-FUNDED BUT STILL HAS FINITE RESOURCES?

KEN: EVERY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FACES THIS SORT OF GIANT DILEMMA, WHICH IS ONE THAT I THINK IS BEST FRAMED BETWEEN THE DECISIONS OF THREE THINGS THAT ALL COST MONEY AND TIME.

AND THAT'S READINESS, MODERNIZATION, AND CAPACITY.

YOU WANT YOUR FORCES TO BE READY FOR THE KIND OF CONFLICT YOU THINK THEY'RE GOING TO FACE.

YOU WANT THEM TO BE.

MODERNIZED SO THEY ARE READY FOR WHAT'S NEXT AND NOT BEHIND, AND THEN YOU WANT TO HAVE THE CAPACITY TO FIGHT THE WARS THAT YOU THINK YOU NEED.

EVERYTHING'S A TRADE-OFF.

THE MORE YOU SPEND ON READINESS, YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO SPEND ON MODERNIZATION.

THE MORE YOU SPEND MODERNIZATION, YOU MAY NOT BE AFFORD THE CAPACITY YOU NEED, SO YES, WANTING MORE IS CLEARLY THE TEMPTATION.

BUT THE REAL STRATEGIC CHOICES COME IN HOW YOU DO THOSE THREE THINGS.

BUT EVEN THE U.S., WITH ITS TREMENDOUS DEFENSE BUDGET IS, AS , YOU SAID, QUITE LIMITED IN RESOURCES.

AND THE ANSWER CANNOT BE JUST MORE, MORE, AND MORE.

ALI: COLONEL KEN GLEIMAN, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE SMALL WORLD'S JOURNAL, PROFESSOR AT ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

KEN: THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE .

JOHN: A RECENT PEW RESEARCH CENTER STUDY FOUND THAT 54% OF WOMEN SAY THEY TURN TO A FRIEND FOR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, BUT ONLY 38% OF MEN SAY THEY DO.

MEN'S LACK OF DEEP, CLOSE FRIENDSHIPS HAS BEEN IN THE SPOTLIGHT LATELY.

TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND MORE, WE ASKED MEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO TELL US WHAT FRIENDSHIP MEANS TO THEM, AND WHY SOME OF THEM STRUGGLE TO MAINTAIN SOCIAL CONNECTIONS WITH ONE ANOTHER.

>> IT'S ABOUT FEELING COMFORTABLE WITH SOMEBODY ENOUGH TO BE YOUR AUTHENTIC SELF.

>> IT IS SOMEBODY THAT IS THERE FOR YOU AND YOU ARE THERE FOR THEM.

>> I DEFINE FRIENDSHIP AS BEING A MUTUAL CONNECTION BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE.

IT'S VERY MUCH A TWO WAY STREET.

>> I THINK FRIENDSHIP IS DEFINITELY HARDER FOR MEN.

I DON'T THINK MEN OPEN UP AS MUCH AS THEY SHOULD.

>> FROM MY EXPERIENCE, I THINK THAT MEN ARE SORT OF MORE THE TYPE TO ISOLATE THEMSELVES.

>> THERE WERE A LOT OF TIMES WHERE I WAS CLOSER FRIENDS WITH WOMEN THAN I WAS WITH MEN.

>> SOMETIMES WOMEN, YOU CAN CONNECT WITH THEM BETTER ON AN EMOTIONAL LEVEL, AS OPPOSED TO MEN.

>> I THINK A LOT OF MY MALE FRIENDS MIRROR MY PERSONALITY.

THEY'RE SOFTER.

THEY DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO BE HEADSTRONG OR TO COMPETE INNATELY WITH EACH OTHER.

>> MY BEST FRIEND, HIS NAME IS MATEO.

I REALLY TRUST HIM.

IT'S THE TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP WHERE WE JUST, THERE'S A MUTUAL VULNERABILITY.

>> I KNOW IT'S CLICHE, BUT MY WIFE ACTUALLY IS MY BEST FRIEND.

WITH HER, THERE WAS THIS NATURAL GENUINENESS.

AND SO IT ACTUALLY HELPED ME OPEN UP MORE WITH HER AND TO BE MY GENUINE SELF WITH HER.

AND SHE WAS VERY ACCEPTING OF EVERYTHING.

>> PERSONALLY, I'M STILL IN A SPOT WHERE IT IS HARD TO MAKE NEW FRIENDS.

I GUESS I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE EVENTS GOING ON, MORE THINGS, MORE PLACES THAT PEOPLE COULD GO JUST TO HANG OUT, WHETHER YOU KNOW SOMEBODY OR NOT.

>> I WOULD DEFINITELY WELCOME MORE MALE FRIENDSHIPS.

I MEAN, I CAN'T, I GOT TO ADMIT I GET JEALOUS WHEN PEOPLE HANG OUT WITH THE GUYS AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT SORT OF DYNAMIC.

JOHN: SO, WHY DO SOME MEN SEEM TO STRUGGLE WITH FRIENDSHIPS?

NOVELIST AND ESSAYIST SAM GRAHAM FELSEN RECENTLY WROTE AN ESSAY IN THE NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE ENTITLED, WHERE HAVE ALL MY DEEP MALE FRIENDSHIPS GONE?

AND RICHARD REEVES IS THE CEO OF THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE FOR BOYS AND MEN, WHICH FOCUSES ON RESEARCH AND POLICY.

SAM, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

IN YOUR ESSAY, YOU HAD A LINE THAT STRUCK ME.

YOU SAID, WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER, " HAD FRIENDS THAT I LOVED AND NEEDED AND WHO LOVED AND NEED ME AND WHOM NOW I ALMOST NEVER TALK TO."

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT HOW MEN INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER?

AND ALSO, WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF IN DOING THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, I WAS AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A LONELINESS CRISIS IN THIS COUNTRY AND THAT MEN WERE HIT PARTICULARLY HARD.

BUT I NEVER REALLY ACCEPTED THAT I WAS ONE OF THESE DATA POINTS.

I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF MYSELF AS AN EXCEPTION, SOMEBODY WHO HAD LOTS OF FRIENDS.

AND THEN I HAD KIDS, I GOT MARRIED.

I GOT BUSY WITH WORK AND DAYS, WEEKS, SOMETIMES MONTHS WOULD GO BY WITHOUT SEEING A FRIEND.

AND I FINALLY STARTED TO ADMIT TO MYSELF THAT I ACTUALLY WAS LONELY.

AND THAT'S KIND OF THE IMPETUS FOR WANTING TO WRITE THIS ARTICLE WAS EXPLORING HOW DID SOMEONE LIKE ME, WHO I HAD ALWAYS SEEN MYSELF AS A HYPER SOCIAL PERSON, SOMEBODY WITH TONS OF FRIENDS WHEN I WAS A YOUNGER MAN, HOW DID I GET TO THE POINT WHERE IN MY 30S AND 40S, I WAS SPENDING MOST WEEKEND NIGHTS IN MY HOUSE, NOT GOING OUT, NOT SEEING FRIENDS.

JOHN: RICHARD, DO MEN AND WOMEN SOCIALIZE DIFFERENTLY?

>> YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES IS THAT MEN TEND TO SOCIALIZE THROUGH AN ACTIVITY OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER.

MEN TEND TO SOCIALIZE SOMEWHAT MORE SHOULDER TO SHOULDER IS HOW THE SOCIAL SCIENTISTS PUT IT AS OPPOSED TO FACE TO FACE.

AND SO WHETHER THAT'S FISHING OR HIKING, OR WATCHING SPORTS.

THEY NEED THOSE SPACES, WHERE MEN CAN KIND OF HANG OUT.

WOMEN SEEM TO BE A LITTLE BIT BETTER AT JUST DOING FACE TO FACE, MEETING UP JUST TO TALK TO EACH OTHER.

MEN TEND TO NEED SOME SORT OF STRUCTURE, AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF THOSE STRUCTURES FALL AWAY, THEN THAT MAKES IT JUST A LITTLE BIT HARDER FOR MEN.

JOHN: SAM, HAVING ACKNOWLEDGED THAT YOU WERE LONELY AND WRITTEN THIS PIECE, HAVE YOU DONE ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY IN YOUR LIFE SINCE THEN?

>> SO I REALLY DID THE MOST BASIC POSSIBLE THING YOU COULD DO.

I GOT OVER MY FEAR, I JUST STARTED PICKING UP THE PHONE AND CALLING FRIENDS, AND NOT ONLY CALLING FRIENDS BUT JUST SAYING YES.

WHEN FRIENDS ASKED ME TO DO SOMETHING.

I MEAN, IT SOUNDS SO STRANGE.

I LOVE HANGING OUT WITH MY FRIENDS, BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU THE NUMBER OF TIMES IN THE PAST WHEN I WOULD COME UP WITH SOME REASON, ANY EXCUSE TO NOT GO OUT.

USUALLY SOMETHING RELATED TO WORK BUT I'VE JUST COMMITTED TO, IF A FRIEND ASKS ME TO HANG OUT, I'M GOING TO SAY YES.

BECAUSE BASICALLY WHAT I'VE COME TO REALIZE IS THAT RELATIONSHIPS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN TERMS OF FEELING BETTER AND HAPPIER.

YOU KNOW, I TRIED ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

I TRIED MEDITATION.

I TRIED, YOU KNOW, GETTING IN REALLY, REALLY GOOD SHAPE.

AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS HELPED A LITTLE BIT, BUT THEY DIDN'T CURE THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM, WHICH WAS LONELINESS.

AND THE ONLY THING THAT CURED THAT WAS ACTUALLY STARTING TO HANG OUT MORE.

AND IT TURNED OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, MY FRIENDS WERE TOTALLY EAGER TO GET BACK IN TOUCH AND START HANGING OUT AGAIN.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AWKWARD FOR A FEW MINUTES, BUT PRETTY QUICKLY WE FOUND A GROOVE AND ENDED UP, YOU KNOW, ENJOYING HANGING OUT AGAIN.

JOHN: SAM, I KNOW YOU'VE WRITTEN ANOTHER ESSAY SINCE THEN ABOUT A ROAD TRIP YOU TOOK WITH YOUR SON.

YOU SAID YOU'D TALKED ABOUT MASCULINITY.

DID YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT FRIENDSHIP?

>> PART OF WHY I WANTED TO TAKE HIM ON THIS ROAD TRIP IS BECAUSE HE'S NOW NINE, BUT WE WERE WATCHING A MOVIE TOGETHER, BILL AND TED'S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE.

AND IT'S A MOVIE ABOUT MALE FRIENDSHIP, BUT THERE'S A POINT IN THE MOVIE WHERE BILL AND TED EMBRACE EACH OTHER.

AND THEN THEY QUICKLY PULL AWAY.

I WATCHED MY SON REACT TO THAT.

AND I'VE HEARD HIM SAY THINGS LIKE, I USED TO SAY TO MY FRIENDS, I LOVE YOU, BUT I DON'T SAY THAT ANYMORE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM TO THINK I'M WEIRD OR SOMETHING.

AND THAT JUST STRUCK ME AS A KIND OF SAD THING BECAUSE I HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO'S A COUPLE OF YEARS YOUNGER AND SHE HAS NO PROBLEM AT ALL SAYING I LOVE TO YOU TO HER FRIENDS.

SO PART OF MY GOAL WAS TO TEACH HIM RESILIENCE AND TOUGHNESS AND SOME OF THESE "TRADITIONAL MASCULINE VALUES," BUT I ALSO WANTED TO LEAVE ROOM FOR HIM TO CHALLENGE SOME OF THE CONVENTIONS OF WHAT WE THINK OF AS MASCULINE, TO BE THE KIND OF PERSON WHO CAN EXPRESS HIS FEELINGS OPENLY AND TELL HIS FRIENDS HE LOVES THEM.

JOHN: RICHARD, ON YOUR WEBSITE, YOUR GROUP'S WEBSITE, YOU WRITE THAT BROAD MEASURES SUCH AS OVERALL LONELINESS, SATISFACTION WITH EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, AND THE NUMBER OF CLOSE FRIENDS, MEN AND WOMEN LOOK PRETTY SIMILAR, TAKE AWAY THE GENDER DIFFERENCES.

IS THIS A SOCIETAL PROBLEM?

>> THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENCES.

MEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE SOCIALLY ISOLATED THAN WOMEN.

AND SOME STUDIES FIND THIS FRIENDSHIP GAP, BUT THERE'S REALLY A HUGE CLASS GAP AS WELL.

I THINK IT'S WORTH MENTIONING THAT IT IS REALLY MEN AND WOMEN FROM LOWER INCOME BACKGROUNDS THAT ARE KIND OF STRUGGLING THE MOST ACTUALLY WITH THESE SOCIAL CONNECTIONS, BUT I THINK THERE'S JUST A BROADER QUESTION OF ISOLATION, DISCONNECTION.

IT'S EASIER TO STAY AT HOME NOW.

AND SO WHILST I REALLY APPLAUD THIS MOVE IN MY OWN LIFE TO TRY AND DEFINITELY BE MORE OPEN ABOUT EXPRESSING LOVE AND PHYSICAL AFFECTION FOR MALE FRIENDS, WE SHOULD ALSO BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO END UP TREATING MEN AS IF THEY'RE MALFUNCTIONING.

AS IF ACTUALLY WE CAN'T HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES IN THE WAY THAT MALE FRIENDSHIPS WORK.

THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN THE DYNAMICS OF MALE AND FEMALE FRIENDSHIPS, AND THAT'S OKAY.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY SEEMS TO BRING MEN TOGETHER IS WHEN THEY'RE DOING THINGS FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATIONS ALL OVER THE U.S.

ARE DESPERATELY SHORT OF MALE VOLUNTEERS.

SO MAYBE ONE OF THE WAYS WE CAN CONNECT WITH EACH OTHER IS BY DOING THINGS FOR OTHERS.

>> AFTER I WROTE THIS ARTICLE, I HEARD FROM HUNDREDS OF MEN ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO SAID THAT THEY WERE STRUGGLING WITH THIS ISSUE.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT HEARD FROM IS PART OF AN ORGANIZATION WHERE IT STARTS OUT BEING ABOUT FITNESS, BUT AND THEN DOING - - IT HAS MORPHED INTO A NATIONWIDE MOVEMENT OF DOING COMMUNITY SERVICE TOGETHER.

>> I THINK, SAM, THIS IS IN A WAY THE WIN-WIN, WHICH IS TO CONNECT THROUGH PROVIDING SERVICE THROUGH PURPOSE.

AND SO THERE'S A HUNGER FOR CONNECTION, BUT THIS ISN'T A SELFISH DESIRE NECESSARILY.

WE'RE ALSO, I THINK LOOKING FOR CONNECTIONS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A KIND OF POSITIVE IMPACT ON THE WORLD.

JOHN: RICHARD REEVES, SAM GRAHAM FELSEN.

THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

JOHN: NOW ON THE PBS NEWS TIKTOK, STICKER SHOCK MIGHT BE THE SCARIEST PART OF SHOPPING FOR HALLOWEEN CANDY THIS YEAR.

ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON TIKTOK.COM/PBSNEWS.

AND THAT IS PBS NEWS WEEKEND FOR THIS SUNDAY.

I'M JOHN YANG.

FOR ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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