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>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

>> Good evening.

I'm Percy Green.

I want to welcome you to a very soulful edition of Donnybrook.

>> I first want to thank those at Nine PBS for the screening of Percy Green, Man of Action last Saturday at Kiener Plaza.

You can catch this very excellent documentary at 8:00 PM Friday, October the 31st.

Joining me tonight on Donnybrook is Wendy Wiese, resident soul sister and veteran journalist.

>> Don't forget hottie >> hottie.

Also, St.

Louis Post Dispatch columnist Bill Mr.

McCllellan, Joe Hitman Holleman of the St.

Louis Post Dispatch and Sarah Fenske from the 314 podcast, St.

Louis magazine and Patty Hurst look alike.

Welcome all.

Now, welcome.

It's Alvin if you didn't know.

Thank you for watching this evening.

And that that documentary on Percy Green is actually excellent.

Um, please check it out tomorrow 8:00 on Halloween night.

So, you know, once all the trick-or-treating is over or you could DVR it and so like wrong glasses.

I'm I'm like Sanford and Sons technically.

>> I mean, you're a brilliant journalist, but there were some Academy Awards.

>> All right.

All right.

Well, back to reality and that is that we were hit by a tornado on May 16th of this year.

And man, there is still a lot going on and people apparently don't have enough places to live.

The city is trying to take action.

They had allotted a lot of Rams money to tornado relief, but not very much of it has actually gone out yet.

So, Bill, is this like kind of a so St.

Louis thing when it comes to uh our tornado relief and the money's not going here and not going there and not going fast enough?

>> Well, I don't know.

And there's a lot of red tape in any city, but this is one of those instances where the mayor has to just cut through all the red tape and get money out to people.

And it's good to see that they're already planning for something a winter shelter.

I mean, I don't know how realistic these plans are about a shelter for a thousand people, but you know, it's almost November and we could have a storm and cold weather anytime once you get into November.

And if there are people who are living in ramshackle houses that were damaged by the tornado or homeless by the and there are of course some of those people, they need a place to be when the weather turns cold.

I was struck in the post dispatch story which did a a great job covering this, but the numbers were just kind of all over the place in terms of how many people may have been displaced by the tornado who may be in need of some emergency shelter because they're maybe currently camped out in a house that's uninhabitable.

And it seems kind of crazy with all the energy we've put into this that we don't have a closer estimate of how many people we're talking about.

It's like, are we going to have uh, you know, 5,000 people, they suggested at one point that might need shelter because of this?

Are we talking more about a few hundred?

My guess is that it's probably more around the lines of a few hundred that are directly to tornado related.

But I can say if you talk to homeless uh providers in the city, the number of homeless people in the city unrelated to the tornado has also jumped.

And I think Mayor Spencer is very aware of the fact she was very critical of how Tishara Jones handled homeless services.

She does not want to be caught off guard.

She does not want anyone outside freezing when the city doesn't have shelter to offer.

>> And there's a lot of people couch surfing, I'm sure, you know, >> from the tornado.

Yes.

Well, and then moving back into those unstable residences.

So, uh yes, it was very difficult to distinguish between uh structures, number of households uh in in terms of the numbers.

But if we could pinpoint a number that would that would make a a huge >> I help >> I think without the a better inventory it's hard to really come down and say how great is the need.

Not arguing that there's not a need for it but how great is that need.

I think you have to differentiate between people who were homeless before the tornado, people who are homeless because of the tornado and then the part about homes that were damaged.

Well, are they still inhabitable but damaged?

I mean, I just needed a little more detail, and the city needs to provide that before I'm saying, "Let's rush the money out, if you would, because, you know, that's one of those double-edged swords."

They say you're spending it too slow and you're dragging your feet.

You spend it too fast and you end up with a COVID type situation where people squandered tens of millions of dollars.

So, somewhere in there, I I just think we need to get a little more harder focus on exactly who was made homeless by the tornado.

And time is of the essence because we know how cold it can get in the 1st of November.

And Larry Rice who who spoke to this uh who was who was uh who was quoted in the article as saying, "Does anybody want to sleep in a structure with 500 other people?"

And so these monster structures that they're talking about that are going to house a thousand people where so yeah, the details are are >> sort of like the dome.

remember uh this super dome after Katrina.

>> I mean, you know, nobody wants to >> go sleep in our dome.

>> Well, okay, >> let's say the tor there was no tornado and the idea of creating a facility that would be open and have some services for all the, you know, homeless people in the city of St.

Louis and vicinity.

It sounds like it'd be big enough to house some coming from the county as well.

Isn't that a good idea?

>> No, I think that's a great idea.

I think this has been terrible to see in the last few years.

I think they have been rightly focused on we want to transition people out of shelters and get them into like permanent supportive housing.

Great.

I'm 100% on board for that.

But until we have enough beds for everybody who wants to do that and we have a population that's ready to do that, we absolutely need more emergency shelter capacity.

So, I thought it was really good to see the mayor proactively acknowledge that and say we're going to put a lot of money into it.

Now they're gonna have to spend fast to get it up and running.

>> Well, okay.

If you build it for tornado homeless, it would be there for pre tornado homeless.

>> That's what they're talking about.

>> And that's the that's the plan.

>> That's the plan.

>> Okay.

All right.

I just seems like why didn't somebody come up with this plan a long time ago?

Why why necessity?

I guess mother of invention and this is like this would be like what we've seen, you know, time and time again in the Olympics.

you know, they build these monstrous structures and then they have a very many of them have a very efficient afterlife.

So, after the actual game.

So, >> okay.

All right.

Well, hey, does a week go by when there's not sheriff news?

Not for a while.

So, the sheriff is, I guess, technically the sheriff, but he has no duties because a local judge, circuit court judge, ruled that he can't do his job from a jail cell.

He differs, but I would think that that would be pretty tough to do.

So, um, former police chief John Hayden is now the acting sheriff, interim sheriff.

Where are we going with this one, Sarah?

>> Yeah, I mean, this seems like the most common sense things ever.

The attorney general's office was in court yesterday.

I think this is maybe the third time that they have gone to the judge and said, "Hey, you need to get this guy out of here.

We have this removal petition.

He's facing criminal charges, guys.

We can't have him be the acting sheriff."

And this time, I think the judge took it very seriously.

And I have to give the judge credit.

He's saying, "Okay, you can't just remove an elected official.

He needs to have some due process here."

So, he's saying this is just in an interim capacity.

This is while he's locked up in jail.

He can't be the sheriff of the city of St.

Louis.

I'm glad we now have some standards.

Do >> Don't you love the fact that uh his attorney David Mason said it's like he's in Vienna.

>> I mean, of all of all the places that you know Alfred Montgomery might go to or I might go to.

Yeah.

>> Vienna.

Where do you get there?

I think in Panama City >> and does Vienna want that out that it's sort of like spending time in jail in St.

Louis going to Vienna.

I mean and I I got a question where I mean Judge Mason I mean no you're not on vacation.

You're in jail.

Your client is in jail and he can't actually go to the place where he's supposed to work.

How can you possibly make an argument that it's no big deal?

We can just phone it in.

You know, >> well, I mean, that was Mason's argument is, you know, people will go on like a two week vacation or people work from home.

They're saying, you know, we're running up and down to the court to the jail cell every day to get them to sign off on stuff.

I think they've been working overtime to make this work even with their their >> That's why they need to get the golf carts back when they got the golf cart.

Why do you need that >> and the new ID and and who's getting the kids to school?

I just want to know who's getting the the sheriff's kids.

>> I forgot about that.

right now.

If if the sheriff had not the burner phone and all that mess and he actually did have house arrest, would I wonder if they would be stripped him of his sheriff duties if he was working?

>> The judge made very clear if he was able to work from home, he would still be allowed to be sheriff.

This is just about him being behind bars.

>> And this is not this is because of the witness tampering, right?

That was that was the straw that broke.

>> That's what got him behind bars which made this.

And let's again think that the idea that a person can run his office of a sheriff's department, a quasi police office while you're in jail is not a good look either.

So I the judge was right.

Let let somebody fill in till this.

>> Credit Steve was the judge.

>> Credit to Steve.

>> All right.

Should the sheriff's office in the city of St.

Louis exist?

I I I know younger people move come here and the first thing they say is like there's a sheriff like what does the sheriff do because do you have that image of the sheriff Andy Taylor right and you have to explain it's a state office and blah blah blah should it exist I mean I >> I really think they should fold it under corrections I think it makes so much sense to just have somebody who's like hired like anybody else is hired and this is not an elected position they don't get their own budget it's just like getting people in and out of jail cells in two court.

Why can't that be part of what what detention does?

>> County has a sheriff.

>> Yeah.

I I I think >> they're not elected.

>> They're just in charge of So >> the jail, right?

>> Right.

So but when you say do we need we need someone to do that job, a supervisor of these duties.

We don't need to have an election.

Save the money on an election.

There's a lot of these state offices that were required are county offices.

They have been called both license collector.

You don't need elections for these prosecuting attorney, circuit attorney.

Yes, that that's an important job.

But these other ones could be appointed positions in a heartbeat, but they don't want to.

There's no political patronage.

>> Yeah, I was going to say political patronage, if the sheriff's office has always been a safe haven that people can get, you know, their brother-in-law into, right?

>> And without that, they send people to the airport.

And I'd I'd rather have them in the sheriff's office than at the airport.

I mean, seriously, you know, people are going to hire their relatives.

>> I'm okay.

>> They work air traffic control.

>> Well, no, that's why keep them in the sheriff's.

>> I'm okay with the sheriffs.

I I really I really am.

And because I feel like if there's a way to mess it up, you know, let's let's stick with the devil that we know and in the structure that we know, what we need to do is break the cycle of Vernon Betts and then his protege slash worst nightmare, Mr.

Montgomery, Sheriff Montgomery.

Um there have been normal situations in the sheriff's office before and we just need to find the right person.

>> Just to be clear you know Vernon Betts would certainly say that Alfred Montgomery is not his protege because he he beat >> that's why I said right you did hire him back but they are they are inextricably linked those two.

I'm sorry I don't know that you'd have one without the other.

>> That is a good point.

That is a good point.

I I did find it interesting that John uh Hayden slipped in there and oh yeah, I would be open to uh taking the >> And you remember two weeks ago I said I would be the sheriff and do everything in my power to make sure that office no longer existed at the end of this term and I would stay with that.

>> But how much you make?

I'd say it's good.

It's good money for a couple years.

>> It would take me two years to get absolutely I'm not saying quit early years and serving documents and securing >> courtroom.

And John Hayden is of course extremely overqualified.

I mean, a good man to have, you know, he was a math major at Washington University.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, I'm always impressed with anybody who's a math.

I hope he gets comfortable.

He's not going to roll dice.

>> I I I think there's a We could have majored in a lot of things and been this year St.

Louis.

>> I I hate to like warn on something bad coming on the horizon, but if Alfred Montgomery is quit or removed from office, at that point there's this whole process where then we can't keep John Hayden.

We'll have to like go through this whole nomination.

So, it's not it's not going to be smooth sailing from here, folks.

>> Okay.

All right.

Well, that's one job I don't want.

All right.

Well, speaking of city politics, Alderman Michael Browning uh opposed the sale of a park that was in the ward of one uh Rashene Aldridge and mysteriously something a cortex bill that Alderman Browning wanted passed suddenly lost some votes.

And he says it was petty politics and people just getting uh even with him.

This whole story kind of made you chuckle.

I know it is city politics and that can be kind of grinding, but this one makes you smile, don't it, Joe?

>> Absolutely.

Well, I I I guess in in in all due respect to Alderman Browning, when he got up and said, "This is petty politics.

Duh.

I mean, yes, of course.

You voted against a bill in my ward."

Okay.

And it used to be aldermanic courtesy.

If that alderman in that ward said, "Let's move forward with this."

All the other alderman said, "You know what?

You're the one that's going to take the phone calls.

You're the one that's going to take the complaints.

I'm not going to get in the way."

So, Mr.

Browning opposes it and votes against it.

So, then when uh Alderman Aldridge has a chance to turn the tide, turn the tables, he did so.

And that's I'm I'm hoping Mr.

Browning understands now how this works.

Now the the funny part also there was so many funny things in there was one that apparently became like as a revelation to Browning that this was hey this is petty politics.

It's like yes it is >> there any other kind.

>> The other part right the other part was where though I got a kick out of Rashene Aldrich saying that he changed his vote on the cortex plan because of something Sharon Tyus said marking the first time that Rashene Aldridge has ever paid any attention to what Sharon Tyus has said.

But apparently now she's become the wise sage to Mr.

Aldridge's uh to his service.

So I you know at some point in time will everything work out?

It remains to be seen.

But yes, it was a total petty political game and I enjoyed every second of it.

>> It was good.

There is a bigger issue here.

And the bigger issue is that there's a lot of people who are rallying to try to save this sorry Bill.

It's hard to look at your cat face.

this this tragic little park by the old post dispatch parking lot because apparently under city charter you can't sell off parkland without a vote of the people and so people are saying wo there if we do this for this tragic little park what park will we do it next for are we going to sell off Tower Grove Park they're saying put the brakes on >> yeah the the other point about uh the new owners of the old post dispatch building wanting that to be a parking lot because they need parking there are two huge parking lots It's right there.

Yeah.

One just uh west of the building and one just north.

>> So, it's kind of a strange excuse.

>> The whole thing is a little shady, but that's going to derail this like you know this tax thing that we probably >> The last line of the story was it will be revisited.

So, >> you know, Cortex coming out.

I just got to wonder where I just want to track all the campaign donations for and against start coming in to Mrs.

Browning and Aldrich.

But, and let's let's be fair here.

We talk about a park.

I worked next to that building like you do.

That park, that's no park.

>> That was a place for homeless people to wait for St.

Patrick's Center to open up and give out food.

There were shootings and there was unrest.

So, >> I get the theoretical position of it's like a park.

Maybe we'll do Tower Grove.

It wasn't like Tower Grove Park.

No, it was a place for homeless people to hang out.

>> Right.

I I on the other hand, you know, I'm always for the neighbors when you're trying to put something new where they live, but if you buy a home by the homeless shelter, you shouldn't complain about homeless people.

And that park was a park for homeless people before Mr.

McKelie bought it.

>> There you go.

I do find it interesting that, you know, I'm always saying that, man, we have to get more cooperation between all parts of the city and all parts of the city came to together to jam alderman Browning on this.

>> Lesson learned.

>> Lesson learned.

>> Can't wait for the next time.

Alderwoman Tyus and Alderman Aldridge are going at each other.

I hope uh Tom Oldenberg who took a walk took.

>> I hear my I hear my phone ringing.

>> But it wasn't Mchavelia.

No.

Oh yeah.

And could you just see like it was nothing mucky?

>> Okay.

>> Well, we're going to stay on politics and this is I interviewed uh Mike McMillan uh just a couple days ago to talk about on November 1st.

SNAP benefits are going to be coming to an end, not only here but across the nation.

And he called it just like it's going to be a you know just a a human crisis on November 1st because so many people will find themselves actually without enough food.

And um Democrats and Republicans are going back and forth at the US Senate on this.

Democrats are holding out, they say, to protect healthcare benefits in the future.

Um and Bill, I'm I'm I do not want Democrats to go back on the word to protect health care and just ride this one out.

>> Well, I think that the political strategy is completely wrong on the part of the Democrats.

You know, I mean, I I think that if the Republicans in their big beautiful bill want to uh have health care premiums go up, that what the Democrats should have done is just say, "Okay, and we'll run against this in the midterms."

The idea of shutting down the government.

Now, this the the blame is being put on the Democrats.

And I just I thought it was a crazy decision.

And I think that they should just stop as soon as they can and say, you know, we want to reopen the government and we'll talk about health care premiums later.

>> I think, you know, it's turned into a game of chicken, >> but the problem is it's the Democrats who swerved into the Republican lane and brought this game of chicken on.

So, no one wants to blink.

What the Republicans are saying is we have a budget bill.

You want SNAP benefits, vote.

We can go through with this.

we don't have to stop anything.

You don't like the bill that got passed.

So now you want to hold everything up.

And I agree with Bill that this is not looking good for the Democrats.

They keep trying to say, "Oh, the Republicans caused this problem."

Nobody's believing that because by logic, the people holding up a budget going into effect are the Democratic senators.

That's just fact because they're voting against it.

So this idea that they're going to pin this on the Republicans, I I think was misguided, as Bill said.

And I I think it's going to u not help their cause one way or another.

The ACA, Obamacare that was supposed to be that's still on through November, which was an extension already from COVID, which the Republicans said we will renegotiate when the time comes.

The Democrats decided this is our leverage.

We couldn't beat it in the Senate.

We couldn't beat it in the House.

This is our, let's call it, filibuster leverage where 60 votes are needed to get this out.

Here's our leverage.

And it is.

If you're willing to suspend SNAP benefits and all these other things for political leverage, that's what you've done.

So, enjoy.

>> Right.

>> It's kind of hard to say this is all on the Democrats when Republicans control everything.

I mean, I get that like this is, as you say, maybe some tactical mistakes are made here.

>> It is on the Democrats.

Wait, what's what's stopping this from passing?

>> Trump is supposedly the greatest deal maker.

He can't figure out how to get a deal to get this.

>> And that's the interesting that's that's the other part of this that is so such a that that feeling that makes everybody like kind of uncomfortable because we don't know what he's thinking, right?

>> And he doesn't have the same, you know, tender uh pressure points that political people do.

He's not that.

He is such an outlier and he has the will to just make it look as bad as it possibly can.

>> Well, honestly, that's going to happen anyway.

That's that's going to happen anyway.

That's why I say like, look, b forward with this.

Just hang out as long as you can because what's missing from the Democratic party and the election tells it there is a middle class section of the Democratic party, longtime Democrats, that's not down with kind of where the progressive part of the party is.

And if Democrats want to say, "Listen, this time we think a lot a sizable portion of our electric base who for some reason is drifting Republican, we can hold them by saying we're going to protect your health care.

We're going to protect that first and we will then the people on SNAP, they'll just have to figure it out."

I know that's tough, but listen, but it these are tough times.

>> Well, but that's my point, Alvin.

If you want to say we're going to use those SNAP benefits for political leverage and sort of tying in the Trump thing, you know, there's the old adage, if your enem is making mistakes, don't stop them.

And I think that's exactly what Trump and the Republicans are doing because the Democrats are making a mistake.

>> Yeah.

And and and the >> why would you stop them from >> the Democratic the people who are leaning toward Trump who are usually Democrats, they're watching Fox News.

I mean, they're not hearing that this is about keeping the health care premiums down.

They're hearing this is >> No, no, no, no.

I disagree totally because that's what's really How did you get in this mess in the first place?

Democratic party, we lost a section of people who thought the party was out of control and is looking for the havenots more than the haves.

I'm sorry, but we got to win those votes back.

And in the interim though, for those of us because we all agree, this is a land of plenty and kids should never go to bed hungry as Josh Hawley said in that New York Times piece, but get on to the Urban League website and look, as you pointed out in the American story, look for all of the the food drop offs.

You can make a donation online to help alleviate some of this pain.

>> Thank you very much for throwing that in there.

All right, speaking of Republicans, friend of Donnybrook, Steve Elman, has decided that he is going to run for county executive again.

Now, it was Wesley Bell who told you that uh I'm not going to run for Congress.

And I forgive him, >> right?

I forgive him, too.

But I think Steve made it clear he was done.

I'm not running again.

U you know, there's lots of reasons I think for the betterment of uh St.

Charles that Steve, you know, said he's going to reenter or not reenter, but just go for it again.

And u my guess is it's kind of he doesn't want it to fall into the hands of the wrong candidate.

So, I mean, uh, we, like I said, we're we're I'm speaking for myself.

I'm biased, but when the, you know, >> well, he'll be running in against, uh, Bill Igel and Jason Law, and, um, Mike Elm dropped out.

Uh, I believe that was how that happened.

Um, but he wants to he he wants to assure uh, St.

Charles County's future and and he thinks that he's he's the best person to do that.

And he is unapologetically St.

Charles Countycentric.

He he doesn't really, you know, it's he lets the city, St.

Louis city deal with St.

Louis city, St.

Louis County deal with St.

Louis County, but he wants uh he wants to make the 55,000 jobs that he says that he brought into St.

Charles County.

He wants to continue that kind of momentum and I think he's got the name recognition.

I mean, >> well, the county has certainly thrived under him.

Yeah.

The proof's in the pudding.

>> Yep.

>> All right.

Well, okay.

We'll see.

It should be a heck of an election.

They all This is going to be a fun election.

Well, let me let me rephrase that.

It's fun is the wrong word.

It's going to be something.

Let's put it like there.

Let's go to the letters.

Criminalization of the county executive over a mailer is a new low for the county council in Missouri.

Almost everyformational flyer ever mailed has had a bias.

Banning info flyers altogether is the only remedy.

That from Tom Schneider, retired florescent mayor.

And we have a uh >> kudos to the staff.

and to the Washington U team for standing up.

Washington U has been a monument in St.

Louis city since 1853.

It is just as vocal as the arch and it has no problems.

It does not have to fall to adversity from anybody.

Thank you.

>> Thank you, Dolores.

I don't know if it was official at the time, but Washington University said they are not going to abide by the presidential pledge or whatever.

All right.

You can write to Donnybrook, care of NIne PBS, 3655 Olive Street, St.

Louis, Missouri 63108.

Send us an email to donnybrook @ninepbs.org.

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And you can find us at the podcast place of your choice.

We're everywhere, including Last Call, which is coming up on YouTube.

We're going to talk about golf carts, Milwaukee, and of course, Halloween.

Sarah's our guest tonight.

Thank you, Sarah, for sitting in as usual.

And we will see you guys on Last Call shortly.

Happy Halloween.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.