>> BRAUDE: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," OUR BALLOT QUESTION DEBATE SERIES CONTINUES WITH QUESTION 4, WHICH ASKS VOTERS TO DECIDE WHETHER TO REPEAL A RECENTLY PASSED LAW ALLOWING UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO GET DRIVER'S LICENSES.

BOTH SIDES WILL MAKE THEIR CASES AHEAD.

THEN, I'M JOINED BY NANCY FRATES, THE MOTHER OF PETE FRATES, WHO INSPIRED THE FAMOUS ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE BEFORE HIS DEATH IN 2019.

THAT CHALLENGE THAT HIT A NEW MILESTONE THIS WEEK, WITH F.D.A.

APPROVAL OF AN A.L.S.

TREATMENT DRUG THAT IT HELPED FUND.

♪♪ >> BRAUDE: QUESTION 4 ON THE BALLOT IN MASSACHUSETTS THIS NOVEMBER WILL DECIDE WHETHER UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS ARE PERMITTED TO OBTAIN DRIVERS LICENSES IN THE STATE.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS ALREADY PASSED A LAW THAT WOULD ALLOW THE EXPANDED ACCESS STARTING JULY OF NEXT YEAR, AND THEY OVERRODE A VETO FROM GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER TO DO IT.

BUT NOW THE VOTERS GET TO WEIGH IN.

ACCORDING TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S WEBSITE, A YES VOTE WOULD KEEP IN PLACE THE LAW, WHICH WOULD ALLOW MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENTS WHO CANNOT PROVIDE PROOF OF LAWFUL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES TO OBTAIN A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR PERMIT IF THEY MEET THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS FOR DOING SO.

A NO VOTE WOULD REPEAL THIS LAW.

ON THE "YES" SIDE OF THIS ISSUE, I'M JOINED BY STATE SENATOR BRENDAN CRIGHTON, FROM THE GROUP SAFER ROADS MASSACHUSETTS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

AND ON THE "NO" SIDE, JAY MCMAHON, WHO'S REPRESENTING THE GROUP FAIR AND SECURE MASSACHUSETTS, AND IS ALSO THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

JAY, IT'S GOOD DO SEE YOUMENTYOU.WHY SHOULD THIS LAW BE REPEALED?

>> THE PEOPLE ON OUR SIDE WANT TO REPEAL IT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.

>> Braude: LIKE WHAT?

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT CONSTITUTIONALITY.

IT DEALS WITH PEOPLE HERE ILLEGALLY, WE ALL KNOW, AND YET THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES GIVES DEALING WITH FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS AND FOREIGN NATIONALS EXCLUSIVE PREROGATIVE TO THE PRESIDENT.

>> Braude: IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEIR IMMIGRATION STATUS?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY DOES WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE HERE THAT ARE UNDOCUMENTED.

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

THE REGISTRY OF MOTOR VEHICLES, WHO ARE GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF THIS, HAS NO AUTHORITY, UNDER ANY FEDERAL CONSTITUTION OR FEDERAL LAW, TO GRANT LEGITIMACY TO PEOPLE WHO HERE OTHERWISE ILLEGALLY.

>> Braude: SENATOR, YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THOSE?

>> I'M HERE TO DEBATE THE LAW THAT HAS BEEN PASSED AND MAKES OUR LAW SAFER, REQUIRING THAT EVERYBODY FOLLOWS THE SAME SET OF RULES.

IT IS ABOUT MAKING OUR ROADS SAFER.

EVERYBODY HAS TO PASS A ROAD TEST, A VISION TEST, TO GET A LICENSE IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

>> Braude: ," I'M SURE YOU KNOW THAT 16 OR 17 STATES ALREADY HAVE THESE LAWS.

THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU AND YOUR ALLIES ARE PREDICTING, CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO ME WHERE THEY HAVE ARISEN IN THE 16 OR 17 STATES, HAS IT BEEN A PROBLEM ANYWHERE?

>>ANYWHERE.>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE ARE 16 STATES PLUS THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.

SO THAT GIVES YOU 17.

IN EVERY SINGLE STATE, THE ONCE THAT HAVE KEPT RECORDS, FATALITIES HAVE GONE UP BETWEEN 20% TO 30%.

>> Braude: HIT-AND-RUN NUMBERS HAVE GONE DOWN IN A NUMBER OF THOSE STATES?

>> IF THE HIT-AND-RUNS HAVE GONE DOWN, THAT'S GOOD.

BUT THE FATALITIES, WHERE THE PEOPLE DON'T WALK AWAY FROM THE ACCIDENT, THOSE HAVE GONE UP.

>> Braude: SENATOR, IS THAT TRUE?

>> ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE'VE SEEN SOME SERIOUS ACCIDENTS DURING THE PANDEMIC, A LOT MORE FATALITY ACCIDENTS.

THAT IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO STATES THAT HAVE ADOPTED SIMILAR LEGISLATION.

IT IS A TRAGEDY.

BUT IN THESE STATES, AS YOU'VE MENTIONED, WE'VE SEEN LESS HIT-AND-RUNS.

80% LESS IN NEW MEXICO, AND 60% LESS IN UTAH.

>> Braude: BECAUSE A PERSON WHO GETS INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT WHO IS UNDOCUMENTED IS NOT WORRIED ABOUT RUNNING AWAY FROM THE COPS -- >> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THEY HAVE INSURANCE AND THEY'LL STICK AROUND.

>> Braude: ONE OF THE OTHER ARGUMENTS I'VE READ AND HEARD, IS THIS BECOMES A MAGNET, THEY'VE SAID, FOR UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE?

>> 16 OTHER STATES, AND 17 STATES IF YOU COUNT RHODE ISLAND, AND THERE ARE MANY STATES THAT ARE MUCH CLOSER TO THE BORDER.

THEY ARE RED AND BLUE STATES.

CERTAINLY THIS HAS NOT LED -- THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO IT POINTING TO BEING A MAGNET.

IF PEOPLE WANT TO COME TO MASSACHUSETTS, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE WORKFORCE AND RAISING A FAMILY, BUT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POLICY WE JUST PASSED INTO LAW.

>> Braude: MATTHEW DENISE WAS KILLED BECAUSE AN UNDOCUMENTED DRIVER, WHO WAS DRUNK, SO I UNDERSTAND HER ISSUE, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE LAW, HAD IT BEEN AFFECTIVE, HOW WOULD IT HAVE CHANGED THE OUTCOME HERE.

THE ABSENCE OF THE LAW DIDN'T CAUSE THAT HORROR TO HAPPEN.

SO WHY IS THAT EVEN RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION?

>> IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE SAYING IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWAY?

>> Braude: I'M SAYING I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, BUT I JUST THOUGH THAT THE ABSENCE OF LAW DIDN'T PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING.

SO WHY IS THAT HORRIBLE TRAGEDY RELEVANT TO THIS BALLOT QUESTION?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK I TEND TO AGREE THAT THE DEATH, HOWEVER IT OCCURRED, WOULD HAVE OCCURRED IN ANY EVENT.

BUT WHAT HER ISSUE WAS, AND WHAT THE SENATOR WAS SAYING ABOUT SOMEHOW THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE INSURANCE -- THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LAW THAT REQUIRES SOMEONE WITH A LICENSE TO HAVE INSURANCE.

YOU NEED INSURANCE TO REGISTER A VEHICLE.

BUT THERE IS NOTHING THAT MANDATES THEM HAVING INSURANCE TO GET A LICENSE.

>> Braude: WHY DO YOU THINK, BY THE WAY, THAT THE POLICE CHIEFS' ORGANIZATION SUPPORTS THIS IF IT IS SUCH A HORRIBLE IDEA?

>> FROM WHAT I SEE, THE CHIEFS HAVE NOT COME OUT AND SAID THEY ENDORSE THIS LAW.

WHAT THEY SAID IS THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF IDENTIFICATION FOR THESE PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING.

>> Braude: IS THAT SO?

>> THAT'S NOT SO.

WE'VE MET WITH THE CHIEFS, AND THEY HELPED US THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, AND IN FACT, THEY HELPED US MAKE COMPROMISE TO MAKE SURE THEIR OFFICERS, AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC, ARE AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

THEY WORKED WITH US ON THE DOCUMENTS -- YOU DO NEED DOCUMENTS TO EARN THIS LICENSE.

LAW ENFORCEMENT, FROM THE SHERIFF'S TO THE D.A.s, I'M GOING TO STAND WITH THEM, AND I THINK OUR CONSTITUENTS WILL, AS WELL.

>> Braude: YOU WANT TO BE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE COMMONWEALTH.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Braude: DON'T YOU THINK THAT POLICE CHIEFS AND SHERIFFS AND D.A.s, IF THEY'RE TAKING A LEAD, THEY ARE ONES WHOSE VOICES SHOULD BE LISTENED TO?

>> I DISAGREE WITH THE PREMISE OF THE QUESTION, THAT THEY ARE ENDORSING -- >> THEY HAVE ENDORSED IT, THE LAW.

>> THEY HAVE ENDORSED THE CONCEPT OF IDENTIFICATION.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.

WHAT IS THE IDENTIFICATION THAT THIS LICENSE IS GOING TO GIVE THEM?

WELL, THEY HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN DOCUMENTATION, WHICH CHARLIE BAKER VETOED THIS BILL BECAUSE HE SAYS THE REGISTRY OF MOTOR VEHICLES DOESN'T HAVE THE EXPERTISE, AND I WOULD SAY THE COMPETENCE, TO COVER ALL OF THE THINGS IT NEEDS TO DO.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOCUMENTATIONS THEY NEED FROM SOME FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO PROVE WHO THEY ARE?

IT DOESN'T WORK.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF THE GOVERNOR, ON OUR RADIO SHOW, MARGERY EAGAN AND I HAVE TALKED TO THE GOVERNOR FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS, AND HE IS CONCERNED -- HE IS A PRETTY SMART CHARACTER, AND HE SAYS HE IS REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE VOTING ISSUE, THAT THIS AUTOMATIC VOTER THING THAT COMES WITH REGISTRATION, DESPITE WHAT PROPONENTS OF THE LAW, LIKE YOU SAY, IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

PEOPLE WILL GET REGISTERED AND WILL VOTE, WHO SHOULD NOT BE.

>> I RESPECT THE GOVERNOR, BUT ON THIS ISSUE, WE DISAGREE.

IT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAS SAID AS MUCH.

WHEN YOU AUTOMATICALLY REGISTER TO VOTE, YOU'RE NOT AUTOMATICALLY REGISTERED.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE PROVEN YOU'RE A CITIZEN.

WE HAVE DOCA RECIPIENTS WORKING IN SCHOOL VISA PROGRAMS.

THEY HAVE APPLY FOR A LICENSE TO EARN IT, YET THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO VOTE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT CITIZENS.

SO WE ALREADY HAVE THIS SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT WORKS.

HOW WOULD THIS BE ANY DIFFERENT?

>> Braude: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT UNTIL A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO.

I WISH I HAD KNOWN THAT WHEN WE WERE TALKING TO THE GOVERNOR BECAUSE I FIND THAT PRETTY COMPELLING.

IF THEY'RE ABLE TO HANDLE GREEN-CARD HOLDERS, AND 16 AND 17-YEAR-OLDS WHO CAN DRIVE -- IF THEY CAN HANDLE THOSE, WHY CAN'T THEY HANDLE THIS?

>> YOU'RE ASKING WHY CAN'T THE REGISTRY OF MOTOR VEHICLES HANDLE SOMETHING TRO WE?WE HAVE HEARD THE HISTORY OF THE MOTOR VEHICLES BEING A FUNCTIONING EXPLICIT OFFICE WHEN THEY CAN'T EVEN SUSPEND LICENSES FROM PEOPLE WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.

IN OTHER WORDS -- >> Braude: HOW MANY GREEN -- JAY, HOW MANY GREEN-CARD HOLDERS ARE 16-YEAR-OLDS WHO GOT A LICENSE FROM THE REGISTRY HAVE VOTED ILLEGALLY?

>> THAT I CAN'T TELL YOU.

>> Braude: DO YOU KNOW OF ANY?

>> I DON'T KNOW OF ANY -- >> Braude: DON'T YOU THINK WE WOULD KNOW -- >> I WOULD HOPE SO.

THAT, THEREIN, IS THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY AUTOMATICALLY REGISTER PEOPLE TO VOTE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HAVE GONE IN TO REINSTATE THEIR LICENSES, WIND UP BEING, AGAIN, ON THE VOTER ROLLS.

>> Braude: DO THEY AUTOMATICALLY REGISTER TO VOTE?

>> THEY DO NOT.

OR WE WOULD HAVE ALL OF THESE FOLKS REGISTERED TO VOTE.

YOU DO NOT NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO REGISTER TO VOTE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THAT SHOULD END THE ARGUMENT THERE.

THIS IS ABOUT EVERY ROADS.

I DRIVE MY KIDS TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY.

7 AND 3, AND I WANT EVERYONE ELSE TO HAVE PASSED A DRIVER'S TEST AND TO HAVE DONE IT THE RIGHT WAY.

>> Braude: JAY, PUT ASIDE YOUR POSITION -- >> LET ME TO SPEAK TO THAT.

WHEN YOU APPLY FOR A LICENSE IN MASSACHUSETTS, YOU AUTOMATICALLY GET ENROLLED.

>> THAT IS NOT TRUE.

>> HOLD ON, SENATOR.

THERE IS A BOX YOU HAVE TO CHECK TO OPT OUT.

>> Braude: CAN WE GO BACK TO MY QUESTION.

THE SENATOR SAYS YOU'RE WRONG, BUT IF YOU WERE RIGHT FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE, HOW MANY GREEN-CARD HOLDERS NOT ENTITLED TO VOTE HAVE VOTED?

HOW MANY 16-YEAR-OLDS HAVE VOTED?

>> I DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION.

>> THERE IS A SYSTEM THAT CHECKS WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE CITIZENS AFTER THAT LITTLE BOX.

MASS HEALTH DOES THE SAME THING.

NO ONE HAS REFRUITED THAT.

WE'RE GOING ON CLOSE TO 20 YEARS.

NOBODY HAS REFUTED THAT.

THEY WILL FURTHER DIVIDE US AT THE BALLOT BOX -- >> THE LAW SPECIFICALLY SAYS THE REGISTRY CANNOT ASK THEM WHAT COUNTRY THEY'RE FROM.

>> THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

THE SYSTEM THAT CHECKS AFTERWARDS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

>> Braude: PUT ASIDE YOUR POSITION REPRESENTING THE COMMITTEE.

YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD, YOU'RE HIT BY SOMEONE DRIVING ANOTHER CAR, AND THEY'RE UNDOCUMENTED, WOULD YOU PREFER THEY HAVE A LICENSE AND HAVE GONE THROUGH TESTING, OR JUST DRIVING ON THE ROAD NO ACCIDENT, THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU IS AN UNDOCUMENTED PERSON, WOULD YOU PREFERRED THEY WENT THROUGH TESTING, VISION TESTS, ROAD TESTS, OR JUST DRIVE?

BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE WHO DRIVE WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED, DRIVE TO LIVE, TO TAKE THEIR KID TO THE DOCTOR, AS YOU KNOW, TO GO TO WORK.

WHICH WOULD YOU PREFER?

AS A HUMAN, NOT AS A REPRESENTATIVE -- >> IF THEY BANG INTO ME, I PREFER THEY HAVE A MILLION DOLLAR INSURANCE POLICY.

>> Braude: IF THEY DON'T BANG INTO YOU.

HOW ABOUT DRIVING NEXT TO YOU?

WOULD YOU PREFERRED THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH TESTING -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO STOP DRIVING.

>> I WISH THEY ENTERED THROUGH A LEGITIMATE POINT OF ENTRY, AND IF THEY'RE HERE AS RESIDENTS, THEY'RE ENTITLED TO A LICENSE.

IF THEY'RE FIRST THING COMING INTO THIS COUNTRY IS AN ILLEGAL ENTRY, I'M SUSPICIOUS OF EVERYTHING THAT THEY MAY WANT TO DO.

JIM, THE LAW IS PUT IN PLACE FOR A REASON.

PEOPLE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVE TO ENFORCE THE LAW.

IT'S TO PROTECT ALL OF US.

IT IS CALLED PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> Braude: THIS IS THE LAW THAT YOU'RE TRYING -- >> YES.

>> Braude: GO AHEAD.

>> WE'RE NOT HERE -- THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION SYSTEM HAS BEEN BROKEN, AND IT HAS BEEN BROKEN THROUGHOUT MOST OF MY LIFETIME.

>> AND SO IS -- >> Braude: LET HIM AND THEN YOU CAN RESPOND.

>> IN MASSACHUSETTS WE CAN CONTROL OUR ROADS AND HOW SAFE THEY ARE.

WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT EVERYBODY TO PASS THE SAME SET OF TESTS.

FOR FOLKS OUT THERE, LOOKING TOWARDS LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEY'RE ASKING US TO DO THIS.

THEY SUPPORT THIS.

THEY KNOW WHEN THEY PULL SOMEONE OVER, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHO IS BEHIND THAT WHEEL.

JUST AS I WANT TO KNOW WHEN I'M DRIVING DOWN THE STREETS, EVERYONE IS DRIVING ON THE ROADS AFTER HAVING PASSED THE TEST AND GOTTEN INSURANCE.

>> WHEN CHARLIE BAKER VETOED THIS BILL, HE VETOED IT TOR A REASON.

HE SAID BY GRANTING LICENSES TO UNDOCUMENTED ALIASES, IT WOULDN'T BE LONG BEFORE THE WHOLE POOL IS DILUTED AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THE LICENSE IS TRULY THE PERSON HOLDING IT -- >> Braude: LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN, JAY, UNLIKE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE HERE LAST NIGHT ABOUT THIS CHANGE IN DENTAL INSURANCE, WE'D BE THE 18th JURISDICTION WITH THIS.

WHERE HAS THAT PROBLEM ARISEN?

I'M ASSUMING IF THOSE PROBLEMS HAD ARISEN, PEOPLE WOULD BE REPELLED BY THIS LAW.

BUT THE NUMBERS SUGGEST OTHERWISE.

>> IT DEPENDS ON WHAT NUMBERS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I TOLD YOU THAT THE 16 STATES THAT HAVE HAD THIS ALREADY HAVE HAD AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF FATALITIES -- >> Braude: BECAUSE OF THIS?

BECAUSE OF THIS?

>> WELL, WITHIN TWO YEARS OF -- EACH STATE, WITHIN TWO YEARS, HAS HAD AN INCREASE IN FATALITIES.

>> Braude: I ONLY HAVE A MINDER.

GIVE ME YOUR BEST 30 SECONDS WHY PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE TO REPEAL THIS LAW, 1KWR5EU?

>>LAW,JAY?

>> PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE TO REEEL ITREPEAL IT BECAUSE IT IS A DANGEROUS LAW.

IT IS A LAW THAT CIRCUMVENTS THE FEDERAL AUTHORITIES WHO HAVE THE PRIMARY JURISDICTION IN VETTING THESE PEOPLE BEFORE THEY COME IN TO OUR COUNTRY.

>> I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOUR FACTS LAID OUT BECAUSE THOSE STATISTICS DON'T ADD UP.

JUST TO SUM IT UP, IT IS SAFER ROADS BY REQUIRING EVERYBODY TO FOLLOW THE SAME RULES ON THE ROADS.

YOU'RE PASSING A DRIVER'S TEST, YOU'RE GETTING INSURANCE, YOU'RE PAYING INTO THE SYSTEM, AND YOU'RE, AGAIN, EARNING A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

IT MAKES FOR SAFER ROADS FOR EVERYONE.

THAT'S WHY I'M VOTING YES ON 4 FOR SAFER ROADS.

>> Braude: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

SENATOR, JAY McMAHON.

A YES VOTE WOULD KEEP IN PLACE THE LAW, A THO VOTE WOULD REPEAL IT.

>> BRAUDE: SENATOR BRENDAN CRIGHTON AND JAY MCMAHON, THANKS.

SO AGAIN, A YES VOTE WOULD KEEP IN PLACE THE LAW.

A NO VOTE WOULD REPEAL IT.

WHEN ANDREW FRATES JOINED US BACK IN 2016 TO TALK ABOUT THE FAMOUS ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE THAT HIS BROTHER, PETE, INSPIRED, YOU REMEMBER WHEN EVERYONE FROM KIM KARDASHIAN AND VICTORIA BEKCHAM TO GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER POURED ICE WATER OVER THEIR HEADS TO RAISE MONEY TO RESEARCH A.L.S.- HE SAID HE HOPED IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> WE'RE SO EXCITED AND SO GRATEFUL FOR EVERYONE WHO DUMPED AND DONATED, TO HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, FUND BREAKTHROUGHS AND LEAD US SOMEWHERE DOWN TO A CURE.

>> BRAUDE: PETE FRATES DIED IN 2019, FOLLOWING A YEARS-LONG BATTLE WITH A.L.S., BUT HIS AND HIS FAMILY'S PROMOTION OF THE ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE HELPED RAISE MORE THAN $200 MILLION, MUCH OF IT GOING TOWARD RESEARCH ON THE TERMINAL NEUROLOGICAL CONDITION AND NOW, THE F.D.A.

HAS APPROVED A NEW TREATMENT FOR A.L.S., BASED ON A TRIAL THE CHALLENGE FUNDED, EXACTLY AS PETE'S MOTHER, NANCY, HOPED FOR WHEN SHE JOINED US IN 2015.

>> WHAT THE ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE HAS DONE IS WE'RE ABLE TO GO IN NOW TO THESE LABS AND SAY TO THESE RESEARCHERS: "STAY AT THE BENCH, KEEP DOING THE WORK THAT YOU EDUCATED YOURSELF TO DO, THE FAMILIES ARE GOING TO RAISE THE MONEY."

>> BRAUDE: AND DID THEY EVER!

NANCY FRATES JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH DOCTOR SABRINA PAGANONI, CO-DIRECTOR OF THE M.G.H.

NEUROLOGICAL CLINICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE, AND THE PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR IN THE TRIAL THAT LED TO THE APPROVAL OF THIS NEW DRUG, CALLED RELYVRIO.

>> Braude: P DOCTOR, GOOD TO MEET YOU, AND NANCY, GREAT TO SEE YOU.

DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING WORDS LIKE THAT ABOUT 10,000 TIMES?

>> SURE, I LIVED THEM.

>> Braude: HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE DRUG?

>> I GOT A TEXT.

I HAD JUST LEFT AN ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE AT ENDOCOT COLLEGE, AND 15 MINUTES AFTER GETTING MY CAR, I GOT THE TEXT IT WAS APPROVED.

>> Braude: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE FEELING IN YOUR BODY WHEN YOU GOT THE TEXT?

>> IT WAS JOY, IT WAS HOPE, AND IT WAS MIXED EMOTIONS.

I WOULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO HAVE GOTTEN THAT TEXT WHILE PETE WAS STILL WITH US.

>> Braude: JUST SO PEOPLE ARE CLEAR, WHILE THE TWO GUYS WHOSE COMPANY DEVELOPED THIS, WHO ARE NOW THE HEADS OF THE COMPANY, WHEN THEY WERE FUNDED BY THE MONEY YOU AND YOUR FAMILY HELPED RAISE, THEY WERE UNDERGRADUATE STUDENTS AT BROWN.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

>> Braude: HAD YOU EVER HET THEM WHEN THE MONEY WAS GOING TO THEM?

>> THEY DID REACH OUT TO US IN 2015, WHEN THEY GOT THE GRANT.

SO THE A.L.S.

ASSOCIATION GRANTED THEM 2.2 MILLION, WHICH WAS THE CATALYST TO THEM TO BE ABLE TO BRING IT TO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.

>> Braude: YOU DIDN'T GO HOME AND SAY TWO COLLEGE KIDS, REALLY?

>> I SAID TWO BROWN COLLEGE KIDS, THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Braude: DOCTOR, EXPLAIN WHAT THE DRUG WILL DO FOR A.L.S.

PATIENTS?

>> Doctor: ABSOLUTELY.

THE DRUG CAN HELP PROLONG FUNCTIONAL INDEPENDENCE.

MEANING THAT PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO RETAIN FUNCTIONS FOR LONGER.

THINGS THAT WE DO EVERY DAY, THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED, LIKE WALKING OR SPEAKING.

NOW, THE DRUG IS NOT A CURE.

I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR: THE DRUG CANNOT COMPLETELY STOP THE DISEASE AND IT CANNOT REVERSE THE DISEASE.

HOWEVER, IT IS A FANTASTIC STEP FORWARD.

>> Braude: JUST SO I'M CLEAR, IT SLOWS THE DECLINE AND WILL EXTEND THE LIFE OF SOMEONE SUFFERING FROM A.L.S., CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> Braude: IS THIS APPROPRIATE FOR ALL A.L.S.

PATIENTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE DRUG WAS APPROVED FOR EVERYONE WITH A.L.S.

YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE IMPORTANT TO START IT AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE AND GIVE ACCESS TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE, BUT IT IS APPROVED FOR EVERYONE.

SO WE ARE STARTING TO PRESCRIBE IT, AND THIS IS GREAT NEWS.

A REALLY GREAT CHANGE.

>> Braude: AS I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION, DOCTOR, YOU WERE THE LEADER OF THE TRIAL.

ORIGINALLY THE F.D.A.

ADVISORY COMMITTEE VOTED NO.

THEY MET AGAIN AND VOTED YES.

ONE, BECAUSE THEIR CONFIDENCE LEVEL GREW.

I GUESS THERE WERE ADDITIONAL PRESENTATIONS, YOU'LL TELL ME.

AND, ALSO, THERE WAS A MOUNTAIN OF VOICES FROM FAMILIES WHERE THERE WAS UNMET NEED.

WHAT DO YOU THINK DROVE THAT REVERSAL IN TERMS OF THE F.D.A.

ADVISORY COMMITTEE?

>> Doctor: IN MY OPINION, IT IS THE DATA.

THE DATA HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY STRONG.

WE CONTINUE TO DO ADDITIONAL ANALYSES, AND THOSE WERE THE ONES THAT WERE PRESENTED MORE RECENTLY AT THE SECOND ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING.

ABSOLUTELY, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM THE ENTIRE A.L.S.

COMMUNITY, BOTH A.L.S.

PATIENTS, FAMILIES, BUT ALSO A.L.S.

PHYSICIANS AND RESEARCHERS, WHO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE DATA AND HELPED US REALLY DO GET MORE INVESTIGATIONS, MORE ANALYSES OF THE DATA TO REALLY CLARIFY THE EFFECTS OF THE DRUG.

>> Braude: NANCY, YOU HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS CRITICISM -- WELL, CRITICISM -- IT IS A SMALL TRIAL AND SO WE REALLY SHOULDN'T MOVE AHEAD WITH THIS.

WHAT DO SAYTO THOSE PEOPLE?

>> I SAY IF IT WAS YOUR FAMILY MEMBER AND THERE WAS POTENTIAL OR HOPE THEY COULD DELAY GOING ON A VENTILATOR OR LOSING THEIR VOICE, YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME NO?

AS DR. PAGANONI SAID, THE DATA IS THERE.

IT JUST NEEDED -- IT WAS THE SAMPLE SIZE.

I SAY IF IT WOULD WORK ON YOUR LOVED ONE, WOULDN'T YOU WANT IT TO BE APPROVED?

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU SAY -- I READ COMMENTS ON STORIES, WHICH I KNOW IS A DISEASED BEHAVIOR, NOT A GOOD ONE, BUT I READ A LOT OF COMMENTS SAYING IT IS ONLY 10 MONTHS.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> I WOULD SAY THAT PETE FRATES NEVER GOT TO TALK TO HIS DAUGHTER BECAUSE HE -- FIVE MONTHS AFTER LUCY WAS BORN, HE HAD TO GO ON A VENTILATOR AND LOST HIS VOICE.

IF HIS PROGRESSION HAD SLOWED DOWN, HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TELL HER HE LOVED HER.

HE MIGHT HAVE SEEN HER OPEN ANOTHER CHRISTMAS PRESENT.

HIS BROTHER GOT ENGAGED WITHIN THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

DON'T TELL ME 10 MONTHS DOESN'T MATTER.

IT MATTERS A LOT.

>> Braude: I READ THE ANNUAL CAUGHT OF THE DRUG IS $158,000, AND I READ COMMENTS FROM THE TWO MEN WHO RUN THE COMPANY, TALKING ABOUT SUBSIDIES AND THAT SORT OF THING.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE DETAILS.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE SAYING THAT ANYBODY WHO NEEDS THIS DRUG WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT, REGARDLESS OF ITS PRETTY STEEP PRICE?

>> Doctor: WELL, WE OPERATE IN A COMPLEX HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

SO WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF THOUGHT AND DEDICATION THAT HAS BEEN PUT INTO THIS FROM MULTIPLE PEOPLE AND MULTIPLE STAKEHOLDERS, AND THE COMPANY HAS PUT A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO WAYS TO SUPPORT THE PATIENT.

WORKING IN A COMPLEX SYSTEM, I SURE HOPE THERE WILL BE ACCESS FOR EVERYONE.

>> Braude: YOU WERE NODDING, ARE YOU CONFIDENT, NANCY, THIS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE WHO NEED IT REGARDLESS OF THEIR ABLE TO PAY?

>> YES.

BECAUSE IN 2016, WE HAD ANOTHER DRUG, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS EVEN MORE THAN THIS.

BE I THINK THERE IS A AN UNMET NEED HERE.

2012, WE WERE TOLD NO TREATMENT, NO CURE, WHEN MY SON WAS DIAGNOSED.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

THERE IS A VERY LIMITED TREATMENTS FOR A.L.S.

PATIENTS, SO LET'S GET IT APPROVED AND GET THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO PICK THAT UP.

>> Braude: WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD FROM FAMILIES WHO HAVE SOMEBODY THEY LOVE WHO HAS A.L.S.?

>> I HEARD FROM A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, UNFORTUNATELY WHO HAS BEEN DIAGNOSED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND SHE WROTE TO ME, I ALREADY STARTED THE PAPERWORK.

AND SHE HAD ALL HEARTS AND PRAYER SIGNS NEXT TO IT.

THAT'S ALL I NEEDED.

>> Braude: HOW SOON WILL THE DRUG BE AVAILABLE, DOCTOR?

>> Doctor: THE COMPANY HAS ANNOUNCED FOUR TWO SIX WEEKS, SO MID-NOVEMBER.

WE'RE STARTING THE PAPERWORK, AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE ALL SET BY THAT TIME.

>> Braude: WHAT ELSE IS IN THE WORKS?

OBVIOUSLY WE SHOULD CELEBRATE WHAT IS, BUT I KNOW THIS IS NOT THE END POINT YOU MENTIONED.

THERE IS NOT A CURE.

WHAT ARE NEXT STEPS THAT YOU, AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO HAVE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES TO THIS, WHAT IS NEXT?

>> Doctor: THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION.

I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF HOPE BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF RESEARCH.

IN FACT, A LOT OF THAT RESEARCH WAS STARTED THANKS TO THE ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE THAT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER.

AND FROM THERE WE CONTINUE TO GROW.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE TESTING MORE DRUGS THAN EVER, AND WE HAVE INNOVATIVE TRIAL DESIGNS THAT ALLOW US TO TEST THESE DRUGS FASTER.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE POSITIVE NEWS OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

>> Braude: DO YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A CURE IS ON THAT LIST AT SOME POINT?

NOT JUST TREATMENT, BUT A CURE?

>> Doctor: I THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE BASED ON THE SCIENCE.

AT THIS POINT, WE'RE CONTINUING TO LEARN ABOUT THE GENETICS OF A.L.S., AND THE MECHANICS OF A.L.S., AND WE'RE CONTINUING TO BUILD ON TOP OF WHAT WE ALREADY HAD.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A TIME, I'M SURE NOT IN THE DISTANT FUTURE, WHERE WE'LL BE ABLE TO CHANGE A.L.S.

>> Braude: ONE MORE THING ABOUT PROGRESS: CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHERE WE ARE TODAY AS COMPARED TO WHERE WE WERE WHEN THE ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE HAPPENED?

>> Doctor: THE ICE BUCKET CHALLENGE HAS BEEN TRANSFORMATIVE.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I THINK THAT SINCE THEN, THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH PROGRESS.

THE CURVE IS REALLY IMPRESSIVE.

SO WHAT NANCY SAID IS VERY RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, IN 2012 OR 2014, THERE WERE VERY LIMITED OPTIONS, AND NOW WE HAVE SO MANY MORE.

>> Braude: NANCY, YOU PROBABLY HAVE ENCOUNTERED THIS, BUT ANY TIME I HEARD ANYBODY SPEAK ABOUT YOUR SON, THEY TALKED AS IF THEY KNEW HIM.

MOST PEOPLE GOT TO KNOW HEM FROM AFAR.

TELL US FOR A MINUTE WHAT KIND OF AMERICAN WAS THIS YOUNG MAN, THIS SON OF YOURS?

>> SO EVERYTHING YOU HEARD ABOUT HIM IS TRUE.

WHAT I CAN SAY IS HE WAS ALL OF THAT AND MORE.

HE WAS A BORN SERVANT LEADER.

YOU HEAR ALL OF THE TALK ABOUT HIM BEING CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM.

THOSE WERE HIS WORDS WHEN HE WAS DIAGNOSED.

THIS IS MY NEW TEAM.

THAT'S HOW HE THOUGHT.

IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT TEAM.

ALWAYS ABOUT COMMUNITY, ALWAYS ABOUT SERVING OTHERS.

I DID GET A QUESTION IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS: DID HE EVER FEEL SORRY FOR HIMSELF?

AND I SAID WHEN YOU'RE A SERVANT LEADER, IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU, BUT ABOUT THOSE WHO WILL FOLLOW AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP OTHERS.

THAT WAS PETE IN A NUTSHELL.

THE HEALEY CENTER, THOSE ARE MY HEROS RIGHT THERE.

THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES REALLY BRINGING THIS TO BE.

>> Braude: DO YOU EVER FEEL SORRY FOR YOURSELF?

>> WELL, AS A MOTHER, YES.

OF COURSE I FEEL SORRY.

I MISS HIM EVERY DAY.

I WISH I COULD HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE.

BUT AS A MOTHER, I ALSO JUST CHOOSE TO STAY IN MY PRIDE FOR THIS YOUNG MAN WHO TOOK THIS CHALLENGE ON, HAD THE VISION TO SEE A TRAJECTORY CHANGE IN THIS DISEASE, AND IT HAPPENED.

AND TODAY, TO SEE THIS DRUG COME TO MARKET AND TO HELP MY FRIEND, WHO IS NOW SUFFERING FROM A.L.S., IT'S A BUILDING BLOCK, RIGHT?

THIS IS JUST ANOTHER BLOCK IN BUILDING UP TO WHAT THE DOCTOR SAID IS GOING TO BE EVENTUALLY A CURE.

>> Braude: YOU AND YOUR SON AND YOUR FAMILY HAVE HELPED CHANGE THE WORLD, NANCY FRATES, SO CONGRATULATIONS.

>> NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> Braude: DOCTOR, CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR WORK.

>> THANK YOU.

FORMER TOP FEDERAL WAGE-HOUR REGULATOR DAVID WEIL UNDER OBAMA JOINS ME ON THE SENATE'S REFUSAL TO PUT HIM BACK IN THE JOB, PLUS UNIONIZATION EFFORTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE CURRENT LABOR MARKET AND MORE.

AND IF YOU WERE HOPING FOR A DEBATE ON BALLOT QUESTION 3, WHICH WOULD CHANGE MASSACHUSETTS ALCOHOL LICENSING RULES IN A FEW MODEST WAYS, I'M SORRY TO SAY WE WON'T BE ABLE TO BRING THAT TO YOU.

DESPITE EXTENSIVE SEARCHING FOR SOMEONE TO REPRESENT THE "NO" SIDE, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO FIND A SINGLE PERSON.

SO HERE ARE THE BASICS: A "YES" ON QUESTION 3 WOULD DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF LIQUOR LICENSES A RETAILER CAN HAVE, FROM NINE NOW TO 18 BY 2031, BUT ONLY SEVEN OF THOSE COULD BE SO-CALLED "ALL-ENCOMPASSING" LICENSES, MEANING BEER, WINE, AND HARD LIQUOR.

IT WOULD BAN SELF-CHECKOUT FOR ALCOHOL.

IT WOULD ALLOW OUT-OF-STATE LICENSES TO BE USED TO BUY ALCOHOL, AND IT WOULD CHANGE HOW FINES ARE CALCULATED FOR ANY RETAILER THAT BREAKS THE LAW.

A "NO" VOTE KEEPS THINGS AS THEY ARE NOW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

AND PLEASE, DON'T FORGET ABOUT UKRAINE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org