>> O'Connell: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M SUE O'CONNELL IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

NEWLY PUBLISHED DETAILS FROM A RECENT STUDY SHED TROUBLING LIGHT ON THE BARRIERS TO MEDICAL CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

IT TURNS OUT, SOMETIMES THE BARRIER IS THE DOCTOR THEMSELVES.

TWO RESEARCHERS BEHIND THE FINDINGS JOIN ME.

THEN-- SHOEBERT.

THE SEAL WHO STOLE HEARTS IN BEVERLY LAST MONTH, HAS RETURNED TO THE NORTH SHORE.

I'M JOINED BY TWO EXPERTS FROM THE NEW ENGLAND AQUARIUM TO DISCUSS HIS TRAVELS AND OTHER AQUATIC NEWS.

>> O'Connell: IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE 61 MILLION AMERICANS WITH A DISABILITY, YOU LIKELY HAVE A STORY ABOUT THE TIME, OR TIMES, YOU HAD TROUBLE GETTING THE MEDICAL CARE YOU NEED.

AND A NEW STUDY IS GIVING TROUBLING INSIGHT INTO AT LEAST SOME OF THE REASONS, WITH MANY PHYSICIANS INDICATING A BIAS AGAINST CARING FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, SOMETIMES EVEN GOING SO FAR AS TO DISCHARGE THEM FROM THEIR PRACTICES.

I'M JOINED BY TWO OF THE AUTHORS OF THE STUDY, DOCTOR LISA IEZZONI, WHO IS ALSO A PROFESSOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL AND A LONGTIME RESEARCHER AT MGH'S MONGAN INSTITUTE; AND DOCTOR TARA LAGU, DIRECTOR OF NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY'S CENTER FOR HEALTH SERVICES AND OUTCOMES RESEARCH.

I HAVE TO SAY, DOCTORS, FOR ANYONE WHO HAS HAD A DISABILITY OR A FAMILY MEMBER WHO HAS HAD A DISABILITY AND HAD TO GET TWO DOCTORS-- GET TO DOCTORS APPOINTMENTS, THIS STUDY SORT OF ILLUMINATES AN VERIFIES AND AFFIRMS THE EXPERIENCE THAT MANY OF US HAVE.

BEFORE WE GET INTO TALKING ABOUT IT, I WANT TO SHOW ONE STAT HERE ABOUT THE FINDINGS, THE SURVEY OF MORE THAN 700 PHYSICIANS THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN JANUARY.

AND THE START ELLING STATISTICS HERE, 36 PERCENT REPORTED KNOWING LITTLE OR NOTHING ABOUT ADA LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES.

712-- 71 PERCENT ANSWERED INCORRECTLY ABOUT WHO DETERMINES REASONABLE ACCOMMODATIONS.

AND 68 PERCENT FELT AT RISK FOR ADA LAWSUITS.

DOCTOR IEZZONI, I WANT TO START WITH YOU FIRST, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW THIS SURVEY WAS DONE AND HOW YOU GOT THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM THE RESPONDENTS?

>> CONDUCTED THE SURVEY IN 2019 TO 2020, SO LATE 2019 TO EARLY 2020.

THE FOCUS GROUP THAT DR. LAGU ACTUALLY REPORTED ON WERE FOCUS GROUPS THAT WE HAD DONE TO PREPARE THE SURVEY, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WOULD ASK THE RIGHT KIND OF QUESTIONS TO THE DOCTORS TO GET ANSWERS THAT WOULD BE MEANINGFUL ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES AND PERCEPTIONS OF CARING FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

AND THE SURVEY WAS A RANDOM SAMPLE OF PHYSICIANS FROM SEVEN SPECIALTIES NATIONWIDE.

>> AND DOCTOR LAGU, WHAT PROMPTED THE RELEASE OF THE DEEPER DIVE INTO THIS INFORMATION?

I MEAN WE SEE THESE STATISTICS, WE READ THEM, WE THINK THAT'S TERRIBLE.

I HOPE SOMETHING CHANGES.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RESPONSES WHICH WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO MORE, IT'S SHOCKING.

>> IT IS SHOCKING.

AND HONESTLY, WE REPORTED ON THE SURVEY BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY HARD HITTING AND INFORMATIVE.

AND THEN AS WE WENT BACK AND THOUGHT ABOUT THE FOCUS GROUPS THAT INFORM THE SURVEY QUESTIONS, WE REALIZE THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF CONTENT THERE THAT WE COULDN'T ASK ABOUT IN THE SURVEY THAT WAS REVEALING.

AND IN SOME WAYS EXPLAINED WHY PHYSICIANS WERE MAKING SOME OF THE COMMENTS IN THE SURVEY THEY WERE MAKING LIKE THAT THEY DIDN'T WELCOME PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES TO THEIR PRACTICE.

AND SO WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE TRANSCRIPTS AND THERE WERE DOCTORS SAYING I FEEL OVERWHELMED, I FEEL THERE ARE TOO MANY BARRIERS, I CAN'T CARE FOR PATIENTS WITH DISABILITIES AND THEN IN THE LIGHT OF THIS FEELING OF OVERWHELMED, AND MAKING SOME TERRIBLE CHOICES THAT HAD IMPACTS FOR THESE PATIENTS.

SO WE JUST FELT WE HAD TO WRITE IT OFF LET'S TAKE ANOTHER LOOK.

THE RESPONSE GIVE THEN ONE OF THE PHYSICIAN FOCUS GROUPS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLISHED, THIS PERSON TALKING ABOUT ACCOMMODATION.

WE'VE GOTTEN TO A POINT IN SOCIETY WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WANTING SOME FORM OF ACCOMMODATION AND A LOT ARE AIRPLANES AND WHATNOT AND THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.

YOU KNOW DR. IEZZONI, I SPENT A LOT MUCH TIME, ONE OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS HAS A DISABILITY AND HAD A VERY DIFFICULT TO DIAGNOSE NUMBER OF CHRONIC ILLNESSES.

AND AT EVERY GIVEN MOMENT THAT SOMEONE WOULD SAY WELL, YOU HAVE TO PROVE THIS, YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT, THE BARRIERS TO GETTING CARE OR GETTING ACCOMMODATIONS SEEM TO BE OVERWHELMING AT SOME POINT.

AND THEN TO FIND OUT THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BECAUSE THE PHYSICIAN HE OR HERSELF MAY ACTUALLY HAVE A DYES THINKING THAT EVERYONE IS JUST ASKING FOR ACCOMMODATIONS.

HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH BECAUSE IT BASICALLY IS A SOCIETIAL ISSUE.

I MEAN THE SITUATION WITH THE PET PEACOCK, YOU KNOW, REALLY TRIFL YALIZES WHAT THE REAL ISSUES ARE.

AND SO I THINK-- IN THE IT IS SHOW THAT EDUCATION IS NEEDED, TRAINING IS NEEDED BUT THE PROBLEM TO MY POINT OF VIEW IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO WASTE.

IT TAKES ABOUT SEVEN YEARS TO PRODUCE AN INTERNIST AND WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO WAIT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE WE HAVE GROWING NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITY IN THE COUNTRY.

AND SO I THINK THAT WE JUST NEED MORE AWARENESS LIKE THE KIND OF STUDY THAT WE'RE DOING TO GET THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE.

>> I WANT TO LOOK AT THESE NEXT TWO ANSWER TOOS AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ADA AND LAWSUITS WHICH I KNOW ISN'T NECESSARILY IN YOUR REALM.

ANOTHER RESPONSE FROM THE FOCUS GROUP, A LOT OF US, ME PERSONALLY ARE AFRAID TO TREAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THEM AND THAT IS WHAT THE ADA IS ALL ABOUT.

AND THEN ANOTHER RESPONSE, A BIG PROBLEM IS NOT KNOWING, MYSELF, WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST KIND OF CARE, THE BEST EQUIPMENT FOR THEM.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW, I'M NOT EVEN QUALIFIED.

DR. LAGU, I'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF REPORTS, SOME ANECDOTAL OF PEOPLE BEING CONCERNED ABOUT ADA LAWSUITS.

AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE SAYING WELL, IF WE DON'T SUE T DOESN'T CHANGE, IT'S NOT GOING TO COURT IS NOT OUR NUMBER ONE POINT.

BUT SOMETIMES THERE IS NO TEETH IN THE LAWS TO ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE TO CHANGE.

AND DOCTOR, IEZZONI IS TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION AND HOW LONG IT TAKES.

IS THAT WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

DO WE HAVE TO GET INTO THE MED SCHOOL, INTO THE PRACTICES AND SAY THESE ARE THE CHALLENGES, THIS IS THE REALITY OF THE ADA, AND THIS IS THE REALITY OF THE PATIENTS YOU HAVE TO TREAT?

>> SO, SOME OF IT IS EDUCATION.

SOME OF IT IS POLICY FOR SURE, IF WE THINK ABOUT HOW POLICY WORKS, YOU KNOW, PAYORS LIKE MEDICARE AND OTHERS, SET THE PRICES FOR WHAT DOCTORS MAKE AND DOCTORS FEEL PINCHED IN A LOT OF SITUATIONS.

AND AS A RESULT, ADDING A DECISIONAL WORK LIKE PROVIDING ACCOMMODATIONS FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIESABILITIES IS PART OF THE REASON THAT THEY RESPONDED THE WAY THEY DID.

IT IS INEXCUSABLE.

AND LIKELY DISCRIMINATORY AND FOR THAT REASON WE CAN'T ALLOW IT TO GO ON.

BUT THE WHY BEHIND THE WHOLE INTEREST OF QUESTIONS IS THAT WE HAVE BIG SYSTEM PROBLEMS IN HOW WE DELIVER CARE.

AND THE FRUSTRATION THAT PHYSICIANS IN THESE GROUPS WERE EXPRESSING SUGGEST THAT IT IS NOT JUST PEOPLE WITH DISABILITY.

THE PROBLEM IS, THE WAY THEY DESCRIBE THAT THEY DEAL WITH THEIR FRUSTRATION IS THAT THEY JUST FIND WAYS TO DENY CARE TO PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIESES.

AND THE ONES THAT YOU DESCRIBE, OR SOME OF THEM, OTHERS SAID THIMTIONS LIKE I DON'T TAKE YOUR INSURANCE.

OR YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS THIS KIND OF TREATMENT, OR YOU NEED SPECIALIZED CARE AND I'M NOT THE DOCTOR FOR YOU.

AND OF COURSE WHAT IS TRICKY ABOUT THIS, IS THAT ANY, ANYONE CAN CALL A DOCTOR AND ASK FOR AN APPOINTMENT AND BE DENIED CARE BECAUSE PHYSICIANS HAVE DISCRETION IN WHO THEY TAKE AS PATIENTS.

IT'S JUST THAT YOU CAN'T BE DISCRIMINATORY WHEN YOU EXERCISE THAT DISCRETION.

AND IT'S PRETTY CLEAR, ALTHOUGH WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW IF THESE PHYSICIANS TAKE THE PATIENTS' INSURANCE, THAT THERE IS LIKELY SOME DISCRIMINATORY DISCRETION HAPPENING HERE SO REALLY THIS IS ABOUT CHANGE ON EVERY LEVEL, I THINK IT IS EDUCATION, IT'S CHUL TURE-- CULTURE, IT'S TRAINING, IT'S REIMBURSEMENT, IT IS HOW DO WE PREPARE HEALTH SYSTEMS TO CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

HOW DO WE LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE COMING AND HAVE THE ACCESSIBLE EQUIPMENT IN THE OFFICE.

THE STAFF TRAINED, EVERYTHING AVAILABLE FOR THAT PATIENT.

AND I THINK THERE IS HUGE SYSTEM PROBLEMS THAT UNDERLIE THIS.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT FACED WITH THOSE HUGE PROBLEMS, SOME DOCTORS IN OUR STUDY MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE WHICH IS TO NOT DISCRIMINATOR.

AND SOME CLEARLY MADE THE WRONG CHOICE.

>> O'Connell: AND THAT'S THE-- AND THAT'S THE BIG PROBLEM.

>> O'Connell: DR. IEZZONI, FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND I'M CERTAIN IT IS NOT TYPICAL, BUT FROM MY EXPERIENCE, THE NUMBERS OF DOCTORS THAT I DEAL WITH FOR MY FAMILY MEMBER ARE SEVEN.

AND THE SEVEN ARE ALL IN THE SAME HEALTH CARE WITH EXCELLENT HEALTH CARE, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT OUR PRIVILEGE OF THE ACCESS THAT WE HAVE.

BUT THEY RARELY TALK TO EACH OTHER.

AND RARELY, YOU KNOW, BEFORE MY FAMILY MEMBER GETS TO THE APPOINTMENT, THEY READ THE REPORT AND THEN YOU KNOW WE'VE GOT WHATEVER TIME IS LEFT.

AND THEN THEY'LL SAY SOMETHING LIKE YOU NEED TO DO X.

WELL, THE PATIENT CAN'T DO X BECAUSE OF THIS ILLNESS THEY HAVE FROM DOCTOR A, SO DOCTOR A CAN TELL YOU WHY THEY CAN'T DO X BUT THAT REQUIRES THE PATIENT TO ALSO HAVE THE MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGE TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

AND SO TO THIS POINT OF THE BARRIERS, EVEN IF YOU GET IN, IT SEEMS THAT THE DOCTORS OFTEN, AND AGAIN NOT NECESSARILY OUT OF ILL-WILL, BUT JUST ARE UNABLE TO TREAT THE WHOLE PATIENT.

AND IF DR. LAGU IS RIGHT, WHICH I EXPECT THAT IT IS CORRECT, HOW DO WE START FIXING THIS SYSTEM SO THAT WE ARE DELIVERING THE HEALTH CARE THAT I AM SURE DOCTORS MOSTLY WANT TO DELIVER TO THE PATIENT?

>> WELL, DR. LAGU IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT ITS POLICIES WHILE PAYMENT IS INEVITABLY AN ISSUE IN THE U.S. HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND WHAT ARE YOU REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS COORDINATION, INTEGRATION OF CARE, IT'S JUST-- OFTEN ISN'T PAID FOR.

SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED IN OUR STUDY.

BUT IT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE HEAR FROM HEALTH-CARE PROVIDERS AND FROM PATIENTS AND PATIENT ADVOCACY GROUPS ALL THE TIME.

>> O'Connell: DR. LAGU, WHAT DID YOU SEE, SOME OF THE MORE HE GREEJOUS THINGS THAT PHYSICIANS DID OR DIDN'T DO WHEN IT CAME TO TREATING PATIENTS WITH DISABILITIES?

>> I MEAN SOME OF THE ATTITUDES THAT WERE EXPRESSED WERE INFLAMMATORY TO THE POINT WHERE SOME OF OUR RESEARCH STAFF BECAME FEARFUL WHILE THEY WERE REVEALING THE FOCUS GROUPS.

THERE WAS A LOT OF VERY NEGATIVE STATEMENTS, YOU KNOW, IMPLYING THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE NOT WORTHY OF THEIR CARE, ARE ENTITLED.

IT WAS REALLY INAPPROPRIATE, AND YOU KIND OF WONDER HOW THIS PERSON GOT TO THE POINT THAT THEY WERE SAYING THIS, BECAUSE NOBODY GOES TO MEDICAL SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DISCRIMINATED AGAINST VULNERABLE PATIENTS.

AND YOU JUST SORT OF WONDER WHAT DROVE THIS PERSON TO SAY THIS KIND OF STUFF IN A FOCUS GROUP WITH OTHER DOCTORS RUN BY A MODERATOR WHO TRULY CARES ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

AND SO WE WERE SOME WHAT OVERWHELMED.

AND WHEN IT GOT TO THE POINT IN THE FOCUS GROUP WHERE PHYSICIANS WERE TALKING ABOUT DISCHARGING PEOPLE FROM THEIR PRACTICE, PRETTY ANGRY AS WELL, IT WAS HARD TO DEAL WITH.

I THINK THE ANSWER FOR ME IS THAT THIS REFLECTS MANY OF THE FRUSTRATIONS AND PROBLEMS THAT DOCTORS EXPERIENCE WORKING IN OUR HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM.

THIS IS, ONE OF THE COMMENTS WAS THIS IS ONLY A FEW-OF-MY PATIENTS, BUT IN FACT IT IS NOT A FEW OF YOUR PATIENTS.

IT IS ALL OF YOUR PATIENTS.

YOUR PATIENTS ARE I BELIEVE AING.

YOUR PATIENTS ARE NINE MONTHS PREGNANT, YOUR PATIENTS WHO HAVE A SPRAINED ANKLE, HARD OF HEARING IN THEIR OLD AGE, SO MANY PEOPLE FACE THESE BARRIERS AND NEED ACCOMMODATIONS.

AND EVEN BEYOND THAT, SO MANY OF US HAVE CHALLENGES ACCESSING THE HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM EVEN IF WE DON'T NEED SPECIFIC ACCOMMODATIONS, ALTHOUGH CARE FOR DISABILITIES IS THE CARE FOR SHALL-- FOCUS OF THIS PAPER, THE BIGGER PICTURE IS THE HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM IS BROCKEN FOR ALMOST ALL OF US AND WE NEED ANSWERS.

>> O'Connell: DR. IEZZONI, WHAT IS THE RESPONSE TO FROM THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY TO THIS REPORT AND THE FOCUS GROUP.

>> THIS REPORT IS PRETTY NEW AND SO WE HAVEN'T YET HEARD MUCH.

HOWEVER WE DID HAVE A REPORT THAT CAME OUT IN FEBRUARY OF 2021 ABOUT WHAT FOR ME WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPACTFUL FINDINGS OF THE SURVEY.

AND THAT WAS THAT 82 PERCENT OF DOCTORS THINK THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITY HAVE WORSE QUALITY OF LIFE THAN OTHER PEOPLE.

ONLY 42 PERCENT OF PHYSICIANS FEEL STRONGLY CONFIDENT THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE EQUAL QUALITY OF CARE TO PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

AND ONLY 56% OF PHYSICIANS STRONGLY WELCOME PEOPLE WITH DISABILITY TO THEIR PRACTICE.

I BEGAN TO HEAR FROM SOME PHYSICIAN AND PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT THEY WERE PRETTY SHOCKED BY THESE FINDINGS.

AND IT WAS KIND OF COMMITTING THEM TO AN INTROSPECTIVE COURSE THEY NEEDED TO KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEY ARE A MEMBER, A PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS ALSO FELT THIS WAY.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR THAT HAS GONE.

>> O'Connell: WELL, WE WILL HAVE TO STAY POSTED ON THAT.

I APPRECIATED BOTH OF YOUR JOINING US AND THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE ON THIS ISSUE AND LOOK FORWARD TO READING MORE AND LEARNING MORE, THANK YOU DOCTORS, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

THE ARRIVAL OF FALL HAS MOST OF US SHYING AWAY FROM THE BEACH THESE DAYS, APPARENTLY, EVEN THE SEA LIFE!

SHOEBERT, THE SEAL WHO DREW CROWDS WHEN HE SHOWED UP SWIMMING IN BEVERLY'S SHOE POND LAST MONTH HAS RETURNED TO THE AREA.

BACK IN SEPTMEBER, THE GRAY SEAL WAS BROUGHT TO THE MYSTIC AQUARIUM AFTER TURNING UP IN THE POND AND AFTER EVALUATION, RE-RELEASED OFF OF BLOCK ISLAND, BUT, IT LOOKS LIKE HE COULDN'T STAY AWAY FOR LONG.

RESEARCHERS TRACKED THE SEAL JUST YESTERDAY TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE DANVERS RIVER, POSSIBLY LOOKING TO SEE SOME OLD FRIENDS.

TO DISCUSS THE MOTIVE BEHIND SHOEBERT'S RETURN AND OTHER AQUATIC NEWS ARE NEW ENGLAND AQUARIUM'S SENIOR MAMMAL TRAINER TERA WILSON AND CURATOR OF PINNIPEDS AND PENGUINS AT THE AQUARIUM, KRISTEN VAN OSS.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

WE DON'T WANT TO GET IN THE MIND OF SHOEBERT, WE CAN'T SPIKE FOR HIM, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK IS HAPPENING HERE?

>> THEY TEND TO HANG OUT IN THE NORTH ATLANTIC OCEAN T IS NOT REALLY SURPRISING HE WENT BACK TO THE SAME AREA, ESPECIALLY IF HE FOUND A GREAT FISH SOURCE THERE.

IT WITH BE A LITTLE UNUSUAL IF HE HEADED BACK TO THE POND BUT MAYBE NOT SHOCKING.

AS AGAIN IF THERE WAS A GREAT FISH SOURCE THERE, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY INTELLIGENT ANIMALS.

>> O'Connell: KRISTEN, WE ALWAYS KIND OF PUT OUR OWN HUMAN FEELINGS ON THE ANIMALS, RIGHT, ALTHOUGH WE ARE LEARNING MORE WHAT FEELINGS THEY ACTUALLY HAVE IN THEIR OWN RIGHT.

I WAS AMAZED HOW PEOPLE JUST STARTED TELLING THESE STORIES ABOUT HIM LIKE HE WENT TO THE POLICE STATION FOR HELP AS IF HE COULD READ.

AND WE JUST EXPECTED HIM TO GO BACK OUT TO THE OCEAN.

BUT YOU KNOW, SOME OF THIS BEHAVIOR IF WE WEREN'T ABLE TO TRACK IT, HAS PROBABLY BEEN HAPPENING FOR FOREVER, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, IT DEFINITELY.

SO AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE THINKING.

HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY GO TO THE POLICE FOR HELP.

BUT KIND OF A FUN STORY THOUGH AND IT HAS BEEN A GREAT WAY TO KIND OF BE AN AMBASSADOR FOR HIS COUNTERPARTS IN THE WILD, GET SOME SPOTLIGHT ON THEM AND EVERYONE CAN LEARN ABOUT GREY SALES.

>> O'Connell: AND WE ARE TRYING TO LET PEOPLE KNOW, TO KEEP PEOPLE AWAY.

I WAS FASCINATED BY SOME OF THE COVERAGE OF THIS TOO.

THE RECENT COVERAGE.

TALKING ABOUT PRESENTING IT AS IF THERE SAY LINE BETWEEN WILDLIFE AND SEA LIFE AND HUMAN LIFE.

AND AS IF SHEU GETTER HAS SHOW CROSSED THAT LINE, AS IF THERE IS A LINE AND IF WE DON'T CROSS IT ON A REGULAR BASIS.

WHAT LESSON IS THERE HERE FOR US TO LEARN ABOUT WHERE WE LIVE AND WHERE THEY LIVE?

>> AGAIN I THINK IT'S JUST A GREAT WAY FOR US TO LEARN ABOUT GREY SALES.

WE DO TRY TO TELL EVERYONE TO KEEP A DISTANCE FROM THEM.

SO WE SAY ABOUT 150 FEET.

THEY'RE GOING TO VENTURE INTO OUR AREA SO BIG NEWS STORIES LATELY ARE HOW YOU KNOW THEY ARE TAKING OVER OUR BEACHES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK WE CAN STAY IN OUR SPACES TOGETHER SAFELY AS LONG AS PEOPLE RESPECT THEM.

THEY ARE WILD ANIMALS SO IF YOU KEEP YOUR DISTANCE AND JUST BE CURIOUS ABOUT THEM.

>> O'Connell: KRISTEN, HAS THE ABILITY TO TRACK AND GATHER DATA, I KNOW OVER THE SUMMER WE HAD SOME NEWS ABOUT I BELIEVE IT WAS A DOLPHIN BECAUSE OF THE CAMERA THAT WAS ATTACHED TO HIM, FINDING NEW WAYS IN WHICH HE ATE, GOT HIS DINNER WHICH LOOKED MORE VIOLENT TO PEOPLE THAN THEY EXPECTED.

I THINK DOLPHINS OR PORPOISES TO BEHAVE.

AND WE'VE GOT NEWS ABOUT THE KILLER WHALES THAT SEEM TO BE MAULING GREAT WHITE SHARKS OUT IN THE OCEAN.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SEEMS TO BE NEWS TO US.

IS THIS OPENING A WINDOW, A BROADER WINDOW FOR HOW WILDLIFE AND ANIMALS BEHAVE?

WHAT ARE WE LEARNING FROM ALL OF THIS?

>> YEAH, THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

SO HAVING ANIMALS IN AQUARIUMS IS SO HELPFUL TO LEARN MORE ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM THEIR DIETARY HABITS TO THEIR PHYSIOLOGY, AND THEIR PERSONALITY.

WE LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT THEM.

AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THE GREAT WHITE SHARK IS A TOP PREDATOR IN THE OCEAN BUT ACTUALLY IT IS THE KILLER WHALE, THE KILLER WHALE IS SO STRONG, THE TOP PREDATOR, APEX PREDATOR IN THE OCEAN AND THEY EAT A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS FROM MARINE MAMMALS TO DIFFERENT TYPES OF FISH INCLUDING GREAT WHITE SHARKS.

AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT ECOTYPES OF KILLER WHALES AS WELL WHICH IS DIFFERENT GROUPINGS OF ANIMALS THAT FEED OFF OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF PREY AND LIVE IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT OFF THE COAST MUCH SOUTH AFRICA THERE ARE SOME KILLER WHALES THAT WILL ACTUALLY GO IN AND KILL GREAT WHITE SHARKS AND SELECTIVELY THEY WILL EAT THE LIVER.

THAT IS ACCOUNTS FOR ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WEIGHT OF A GREAT WHITE SHARK T SAY BIG DELICACY FOR THEM AND FULL OF NUTRIENTS AND FAT.

THEN OTHER KILLER WHALES THAT WILL PREY PRIMARILY ON SAMON AND ALSO WHALES THAT WILL EAT SALES AND SEA LIONS, SO IT IS REALLY INTERESTING EVEN WITHIN THEMENT BEING THE SAME TYPE OF ANIMAL, THE DIFFERENT DIETARY HABITS BASED ON WHERE THEY ARE LIVING IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

>> O'Connell: KRISTEN, ARE YOU FEELING THAT WE MIGHT BE AT A POINT IN SOCIETY, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA WHERE WE ARE LEARNING, WE GET ALL THIS DATA.

I KEEP FOCUSING ON THIS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOREVER AND WE JUST SUDDENLY ARE SEEING IT, RIGHT.

AND PROCESSION THE DATA.

AND THESE REPORTS ABOUT HOW MANY SHARKS THERE ARE, ALONG OUR COAST, WHERE YOU KNOW, EXPERTS LIKE YOU MAY SAY THERE ARE MORE.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE CAMERAS NOW AND PHONE CAMERAS AND WE ARE POSTING ABOUT IT, AND TRACKING THEM.

WE'VE GOT THIS INFORMATION THAT LEADS US TO CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE NOT NEW.

THEY'RE JUST NEW TO US.

BUT DO YOU THINK WE'RE AT A POINT NOW WHERE WE ARE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ALL SHARE THE SAME SPACE?

LIKE WE SHARE THE WATER WITH THE SHARKS.

WE SHARE THE OCEAN, WE SHARE THE COYOTES.

I KNOW THAT ISN'T YOUR WHEELHOUSE BUT THE COYOTES LIVE WITH US?

>> RIGHT.

I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE'RE LEARNING SO MUCH MORE THROUGH THE DRONE FOOTAGE AND RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY HAS TAKEN US SO FAR THAT WE CAN SEE HOW CLOSE SHARKS ARE TO SURFERS OR SWIMMERS AND ST CAN BE ALARMING AT TIMES.

AND YOU KNOW, SHARKS DON'T NATURALLY GO OUT TRYING TO EAT A HUMAN BEING IT IS JUST WHEN WE LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE A NORMAL PREY ITEM FOR THEM LIKE A SEAL, LIKE SOMEONE MIGHT LOOK ON A SURFBOARD BUT I THINK YOU BRING UP AN EXCELLENT POINT THAT THERE HAS TO BE THAT HEALTHY BALANCE OF SHARING THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS INFORMATION ALSO BRINGS UP THE IDEAS OF CONSERVATION AND REALLY TAKING CARE OF THE ENVIRONMENT SO THESE ANIMALS CAN THRIVE BOTH IN THEIR NATURAL ENVIRONMENT AND AQUARIUM.

SO I TRULY BELIEVE THE KNOWLEDGE GAINED FROM THE ANIMALS IN OUR CARE REALLY HELP CARRY THAT MESSAGE FORWARD AND THAT COUPLED WITH THE RESEARCH OF THE DRONE FOOTAGE AR BEING ABLE TO TRAIN ANIMALS TO HAVE A CAMERA SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT IS KEY TO KEEPING IT A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT FOR THEM AND FOR US.

BUT IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER WHETHER IT IS A GRAY SEAL OR KILLER WHALE OR A SHARK, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE WILD ANIMALS AND THEY CAN BE VERY UNPREDICTDABLE.

SO THERE NEEDS TO BE THAT HEALTHY DISTANCE BETWEEN HUMANS AND ANIMALS THAT ARE IN THE WILD.

>> YOU CAN'T OFTEN TALK DOWN ANY KIND OF ANIMAL.

I HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A SQUIRREL AT MY HOUSE WHICH I'M SURE IS GOING TO GO SOUTH AT ANY MINUTE WITH ME ON THE RECEIVING END.

TERA WHEN WE LOOK AT MAMMALS LIKE SHOEBERT AND I WANT TO GET BACK ON WHAT WE PROJECT ON WHAT WE ARE DOING.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BEHAVIORS THAT YOU EXPERIENCE EVERY DAY, THAT WE MIGHT THINK ARE THE ANIMALS ACTING LIKE HUMANS.

BUT ARE ACTUALLY MORE LIKE WE HUMANS ARE ACTING LIKE THE ANIMALS WE ARE.

WHAT KIND OF SHARED BEHAVIORS DO WE HAVE?

>> THAT SAY GREAT QUESTION.

SO ALL THE ANIMALS I WORK WITH DEFINITELY HAVE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES.

IF I HAD TO COMPARE THEM TO AN ANIMAL THAT YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR W THEY VERY SIMILAR TO DOGS IN A SENSE.

THEY DEFINITELY HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONALITIES.

AND WE CAN READ INTO THAT.

SO THEY HAVE DIFFERENT TOYS THAT THEY MIGHT FIND REALLY REINFORCING BETWEEN EACH OTHER.

THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT WE CAN SEE AND THAT WE MIGHT APPLY EMOTION TO.

BUT THAT IT IS A SUR.

>> DO YOU GIVE THEM NAMES BASED ON WHAT YOU THINK THEIR PERSONALITIES ARE?

>> NOT USUALLY.

SO WE TEND TO NAME THEM, IT CAN BE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS, IT MIGHT BE A NAME OF AN AREA THAT THEY ARE FROM ORIGINALLY.

OR MAYBE WHERE THEY WERE STRANDED.

SO OUR NORTHERN SEAL WAS NAMED BECAUSE SHE WAS FOUND ON LAGUNA BEACH AND WE SHORTENED IT TO LUNA.

DIFFERENT REASONS COME INTO NAMING FACTORS.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> O'Connell: KRISTEN, WE'RE SEEING ALSO A LOT OF REPORTS OF SEA LIFE BEING TANGLED UP IN FISHING GEAR, AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING A LONG TIME.

ARE THERE ANY EFFORTS THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF FOR WAYS TO HELP KEEP THE FISHING INDUSTRY HEALTHY-- HEALTHY AND WORKING AND DI MINUTE INNING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR HARM TO THE WILDLIFE?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT THAT YOU BRING UP.

AND WE ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER ON THAT PROJECT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE SUSTAINABLE FISHING, IN ADDITION TO SAFE PRACTICES.

YOU KNOW, GOES HAND-IN-HAND WITH DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES THAT WILL RESCUE ANIMALS THAT ARE ENTANGLED.

AND EVEN SEE PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC REACHING OUT AND HELPING IF THEY SEE A WHALE TANGLED IN A NET, UNTANGLING THEM AND GETTING INVOLVED WITH THAT, WHICH CAN BE DANGEROUS, REALLY PROFESSIONALS NEED TO HELP DISENTANGLE AN ANIMAL IF THEY GET CAUGHT UP IN A NET.

AND IT GOES DOWN TO FOLLOWING THE REGULATIONS THAT ARE SETS UP TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT AND PROTECT THE ANIMALS OUT THERE WITH THE TYPE OF EQUIPMENT THAT CAN BE USED WITHOUT HAVING THAT HARMFUL EFFECT ON MARINE MAMMALS, FISH, ANYTHING IN THE OCEAN.

AND ALSO KIND OF KEEPING THOSE REGULATIONS IN CHECK AND FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH THAT AND KEEPING OUR OCEANS CLEAN.

IT'S REALLY WORKING TOGETHER.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE AQUARIUMS AND ZOOS HAVE THAT MESSAGING WHERE PEOPLE ARE LEARNING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON GOING ON WITH OVERFISHING OR POLLUTION IN THE OCEAN AND HOW WE REALLY NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AS A TEAM EFFORT, AS A GLOBE, GLOBAL EFFORT.

>> O'Connell: I'M TALKING A LOT ABOUT HOW WE'RE GETTING USED TO UNDERSTANDING.

WE LIVE WITH THE ANIMALS AND MAMMALS AND SEA LIFE.

BUT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING THIS SUMMER, WE SAW A NUMBER OF TIMES WHERE JUVENILE WHILES WERE HAVING A SECRETARY OF -- HECK OF A TIME AND DIDN'T SEEM TO CARE THAT THEY WERE AROUND HUMANS.

WE SAW WHALES CRASHING ON THE BOATS AND GETTING OUT OF THE WAY AT THE LAST MINUTE SO THEY DIDN'T HURT ANYONE.

ARE THEY GETTING MORE ACCUSTOMED TO US AS WELL, DO YOU THINK SPH.

>> WELL, THEY DO GET ACCUSTOMED TO US, OR THEY GETS DE SENSE ADVERTISED TO ALL THE ACTIVITY BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF TOURISM, THERE IS A LOT OF BOATING GOING ON.

AND THAT CAN BE PROBLEMATIC AS WELL BECAUSE ANIMALS CAN GET RAMMED BY BOATS AND BE INJURED OR KILLED IN THAT WAY.

SO AGAIN, AS TERA MENTIONED AND YOU KNOW T IS IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN OUR DISTANCE, EVEN WHEN ARE YOU OUT ON A TOUR, WHALE WATCHING, WHETHER IT IS KILLER WHALES OR DOLPHINS, MAINTAINING A CERTAIN DISTANCE IS REQUIRED AND IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF THEY BECOME TOO ACCUSTOMED TO HUMANS, IT AFFECTS THEM IN A NEGATIVE WAY.

THEY GET TOO CLOSE TO BOATS, OR IF PEOPLE FEED THE ANIMALS, WHETHER IT BE A MARINE MAMMAL OR ANY OTHER ANIMAL, ARE YOU NOT SUPPOSE TOED FEED T IS LIKE QUIR-- THEY GET TOO COMFORTABLE WITH PEOPLE AND THEY COULD BE AGGRESSIVE AT TIMES, WE WANT THEM TO BE OUT FORAGING AND HUNTING AND KEEPING THE ECOSYSTEM IN BALANCE AS IT WAS MENTS TO BE.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THOSE GUARD RAILS UP AND VIEW THE ANIMALS AND RESPECT THEM BUT ALSO MAINTAIN THAT DISTANCE.

>> O'Connell: I THINK SHOEBERT HAS FIGURED OUT THE INFLUENCER ROUTED TO A MONEY MAKING CAREER AND MAYBE FAST ON ITS WAY TO BECOME OUR STATE MASCOT.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE PROPS FOR THAT TERA WILSON, KRISTEN VAN OS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WELL...

ALMOST.

THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE WHO WANTED TO ADD A QUICK WORD BEFORE WE GO.

YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T EXPECT TO SEE ME TONIGHT BUT I HAD TO MAKE A BRIEF APPEARANCE FOR A VERY IMPORTANT REASON.

TONIGHT IS THE LAST NIGHT OUR DIRECTOR IS DOING THE SHOW.

HE'S LEAVING GBH AND WHAT A LOSS.

NOW THIS IS HIM, HOLDING AN EMMY HE WON FOR THE BEAT THE PRESS ANNIVERSARY SHOW.

I'M PRETTY SURE I WAS NOMINATED TOO IN THAT CATEGORY BUT DID IT DAMAGE OUR RELATIONSHIP?

WELL, REGARDLESS.

MUCH OF THE LAST TWO PLUS YEARS HAS BEEN PANDEMIC TV.

AND LOOKING BACK ON THE WORST OF IT, I REMAIN AMAZED THAT WE MADE IT ON THE AIR EVERY NIGHT.

BUT THAT GROUP BEHIND THE CAMERAS PERFORM MAGIC WITH ROB NEVER BUYING THAT THE IMPOSSIBLE WAS IMPOSSIBLE.

HERE HE IS IN THE CONTROL ROOM JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS BACK.

THE PRODUCER AS SURED ME THERE WAS A REASON FOR THIS.

I HAVE LEARNED NOT TO ASK TOO MANY QUESTIONS.

SMART, CREATIVE, RELENTLESS, CRAZED, VICIOUSLY FUNNY.

A LOT OF TALENT CRAMMED INTO A REALLY GOOD GUY.

SO THANKS FOR EVERYTHING, ROB.

AND AS FOR THE EMMY, YOU KNOW ME, I AM NOT THE KIND OF PERSON TO HOLD A GRUDGE.

FOR LONG.

>> O'Connell: GOOD LUCK, ROB.

NOW THAT'S REALLY IT FOR TONIGHT.

BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

ADAM REILLY AND HIS PANEL WILL TAKE UP THE CASE OF A CAPE COD MAN WHO DIED BY SUICIDE IN A BRISTOL PRISON THIS WEEKEND, AND THE TROUBLED STATE OF MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR PRISONERS.

PLUS, DID DEMOCRATS UNDERESTIMATE THE REPUBLICAN TRUMP SUPPORTER TRYING TO OUST NEW HAMPSHIRE SENATOR MAGGIE HASSAN?

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org