>> BIG CHANGES PROPOSED FOR THE VERMONT STATE COLLEGE INCLUDING POTENTIAL CUTS TO PROGRAMS AND STAFFING.

>> WE KEEP TO THE STATUS QUO THE SITUATION THAT WE HAVE WILL NOT CHANGE.

WE CAN'T OFFER COURSES IN THE FUTURE THAT ARE NOT RELEVANT AND NOT FISCALLY SUSTAINABLE.

NO OPERATION CAN DO THAT.

>> PLUS A REPORT CRITICIZES THE PROGRAM.

>> AND WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE WRIGHTSVILLE AND EAST BARRE DAM?

VERMONT OFFICIALS ASK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

ALL THAT AND MORE COMING UP ON "VERMONT THIS WEEK."

>> FROM THE VERMONT PUBLIC STUDIO IN WINOOSKI, THIS IS "VERMONT THIS WEEK," MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE LINTILHAC FOUNDATION AND MILNE TRAVEL.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M KATHARINE HUNTLEY.

IT'S FRIDAY, OCTOBER 6.

JOINING US WE HAVE COLIN FLANDERS FROM SEARCH DAYS, PETER DI ORYA AND REMOTELY ANNE WALLACE ALLEN BUSINESS REPORTER FOR SEVEN DAYS.

>> WE START WITH NEWS OUT OF THE VERMONT STATE UNIVERSITY WORKING GROUP.

THIS WEEK IT PROPOSED SPLASHING MORE THAN TEN PROGRAMS AND THE CONSOLIDATION OF OTHERS.

AFTER THE NEWS WAS RELEASED THE TEACHERS UNION AND GOVERNOR WEIGHED IN.

>> WE CUT AS MUCH FAT AS WE CAN NOW WE'RE CUTTING TO THE BONE.

WE JUST THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE WE START WITH LETTING GO FACULTY.

WE HAVEN'T HAD A STAY IN THAT THE AGENDA WAS SET BY THE ADMISSION STATION SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ACADEMIC PROGRAMS, NOT ADMINISTRATION, NOT THE CHANCELLOR'S OFFICE.

>> WE HAVE TO CUT COSTS SOMEWHERE TO SURVIVE THIS.

I BELIEVE IT WILL COME OUT HEALTHIER THAN EVER BUT CHANGES ARE DIFFICULT.

THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN.

>> ANNE, LET'S START WITH YOU.

IT'S BEEN A ROCKY ROAD FOR THE VERMONT STATE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM WITH LEADERSHIP CHANGES AND UNCERTAINTY FROM THE GET-GO.

WHAT DOES THE FUTURE LOOK LIKE AFTER THIS PROPOSAL?

>> WELL, IT STILL LOOKS ROCKY I'M AFRAID BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF AN EXTENDED COST-CUTTING PROGRAM THAT WAS KIND OF LAID OUT IN A REPORT BEAU THE LEGISLATURE A FEW YEARS AGO AND THE ADMINISTRATION AS YOU SAID WHOEVER HAPPENS TO BE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS FOLLOWING THIS PROGRAM TO INSTITUTE CUTS THAT WILL SAVE MONEY.

THEY REPUBLICAN UNDER ORDERS TO CUT $5 MILLION FROM THEIR OPERATING BUDGET EVERY YEAR.

RIGHT NOW THEY ARE SURVIVING ON ARPA MONEY AND OTHER MONEY THE STATE HAS GIVEN THEM PLUS A MUCH LARGER APPROPRIATION THAT WILL CONTINUE, BUT THE ADMINISTRATION RIGHT NOW IT'S MIKE SMITH ALTHOUGH HE'S ABOUT TO END HIS TENURE AND A NEW PRESIDENT STARTS NOVEMBER 1, HE HAS BEEN PRETTY CLEAR ESPECIALLY OVER THE SUMMER THEY WERE WORKING ON THIS OPTIMIZATION PLAN THAT WOULD RESULT IN THE CUTS WE JUST LEARNED ABOUT.

I WILL SAY THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT DID TELL ME NO FACULTY POSITION WOULD BE CUT, THAT THEY WOULD REDUCE STAFF BY ATTRITION.

THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOW GOING TO OFFER BUYOUTS OR LAYPEOPLE OFF IF THEY DON'T TAKE THE BUYOUT IS UNEXPECTED FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHY YOU HEARD ANGER FROM THE FACULTY SAYING THIS IS NOT WHAT THEY HAD WANTED AND NOT WHAT PEOPLE HAD BEEN LED TO EXPECT.

MIKE SMITH IS HOLDING FIRM.

SAYING, YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T DO THIS WE COULD FACE A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM LATER ON WITH -- THE SURVIVAL OF OUR CAMPUSES IS BY NO MEANS GUARANTEED.

EVEN WITH THESE CUTS.

THE WORLD IS CHANGING AND ENROLLMENTS ARE DROPPING.

HE IS TRYING TO FORESTALL SOME OF THE TROUBLE THAT ERUPTED LAST WINTER WHEN PEOPLE SUDDENLY LEARNED ALL THE LIBRARY BOOKS WOULD BE TAKEN OFF THE SHELVES.

THAT CAUSED AN UPROAR THAT LED TO THE THEN PRESIDENT RESIGNING.

MIKE SMITH SAID HE'S BEEN HAVING WEEKLY MEETINGS WITH STAFF TRYING TO PUT OUT AS MUCH INFORMATION AS HE CAN TO PREPARE PEOPLE FOR THE CUTS BUT IT STILL CAME AS A BLOW.

I WILL SAY THAT WHEN I TALKED TO THE FACULTY, STAFF AND STUDENTS UP IN ARMS ABOUT THE CUTS LAST WINTER INCLUDING CHANGES TO THE ATHLETIC PROGRAMS, PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY UPSET AND WHO WERE PETITIONING FOR CHANGES HAVE QUIETED DOWN SO THERE'S MORE OF A CORE GROUP OF PEOPLE STILL SAYING YOU'RE GOING TO WRECK THE SYSTEM.

YOU'RE DEPRIVING OUR VERMONTERS OF A SOLID EDUCATION.

THERE'S A MUCH SMALLER GROUP.

HEARING FROM FAR FEWER PEOPLE THAN I USED TO ACTIONER GETTING FEWER OUTRAGED EMAILS.

>> I KNOW, PETER, WHAT ABOUT MORALE?

WHAT DOES THIS DO FOR THE CONFIDENCE OF OTHER STUDENTS KNOWING ALL THESE CHANGES ARE HAPPENING?

>> I THINK ANNE MADE A REALLY GOOD OBSERVATION THAT WE'RE NOT SEEING THE UPROAR WE SAW EARLIER THIS YEAR WHEN THEY PROPOSED BASICALLY GOING TO ALL DIGITAL LIBRARIES, TAKING THE BOOKS OUT, DOWNSHIFTING ATHLETIC PROGRAMS.

I THINK PART OF THAT ONE THING I HEARD WHEN I WAS TALKING TO PEOPLE WAS THAT THERE'S A SENSE THE UPROAR AND PERHAPS MEDIA COVERAGE OF THAT SITUATION REALLY DID NOT MAKE THE SCHOOL LOOK GOOD.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD I THINK 15% DROP IN ENROLLMENT FOR THIS FALL.

OVER THE SUMMER.

I THINK PERHAPS PEOPLE ARE MORE CONSCIOUS THAT TO MAKE SOMETHING EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL OR TO BE VOCAL ABOUT THIS CONTROVERSY DOESN'T DO PERHAPS ANY GOOD FOR THE UNIVERSITY FOR THE SYSTEM.

I ALSO THINK A LOT OF THE CONSOLIDATION THAT WAS PUT TPO *RBT IN THE OPTIMIZATION PLAN, YOU LOOK AT THE PROGRAMS, WHY ARE THESE NOT ALREADY ONE THING?

WITHOUT THIS MERGER OF CASTLETON AND VERMONT TECH AND COLLEGE THAT CAME THROUGH OFFICIALLY THIS SUMMER COMBINING THE THREE CAMPUSES OR MORE THAN THREE CAMPUS INTO ONE ENTITY, VERMONT STATE UNIVERSITY, A LOT OF THEM HAD PROGRAMS FARRYL SIMILAR.

FOR EXAMPLE THERE'S ONE OF THE CONSOLIDATIONS THAT IS GOING TO LAP OR PROPOSED TO HAPPEN IN MIKE SMITH'S PLAN THERE'S ARCHITECTURAL BUILDING ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM AND ALSO ARCHITECTURAL ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM COMBINED.

I THINK A LOT OF THESE SEEM ALREADY REDUNDANT.

PERHAPS THERE WAS SOME EXPECTATION THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN.

I THINK MAYBE PEOPLE ARE -- I DON'T KNOW.

I WOULDN'T SAY RESIGNED BUT I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED FOR A LONG TIME.

>> JUST SO YOU KNOW, LET'S THROW NUMBERS ON THE SCREEN SO YOU CAN SEE THE SCOPE OF THIS, THERE'S GOING TO BE TEN PROGRAMS CUT, THAT'S JUST THE PLAN.

13 CONSOLIDATED PROGRAMS, CURRENT STUDENTS WOULD NOT ABB EFFECTED AND CHANGES WOULDN'T BEGIN UNTIL 2024 BUT THE FACULTY ELIMINATED COULD BE 20 TO 33 FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES.

DO YOU THINK THE LEGISLATURE COULD STEP IN TO HELP THE SITUATION?

>> WELL, I THINK THE LEGISLATURE WOULD ARGUE THAT THEY DID STEP IN IN A BIG WAY WHEN THEY RAISED THE STATE COLLEGE'S ANNUAL APPROPRIATION, WHICH WAS VERY, VERY LOW, MUCH LOWER THAN IN OTHER STATES, 30 MILLION TO 45 MILLION.

NOW 48 MILLION.

LAST YEAR WHEN A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS STARTED TO BECOME MORE CLEAR WITH THAT LIVELY PLAN AND OTHER THINGS PEOPLE PETITIONED LAWMAKERS TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY WERE PRETTY FIRM, MOST LEGISLATORS WERE FIRM IN SAYING WE HAVE TO SEE THE SYSTEM CUT COSTS.

IT HAS TO BE ABLE TO ATTRACT STUDENTS, WHICH PAY FOR MOST OF THE SYSTEM, TUITION, AND WE HAVE TO SEE THEM FIND WAYS TO CUT COSTS.

WE CAN'T KEEP PAYING MORE AND MORE MONEY IF THE SYSTEM ISN'T DELIVERING A PRODUCT THAT THE STATE NEEDS AND THAT THE STUDENTS NEED.

WHEN I USE THAT WORD PRODUCT THAT'S AT THE HEART OF WHAT UPSET SO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL PROTESTING THE CHANGES BECAUSE YOU KNOW A LOT OF THE PROGRAMS BEING CUT ARE THE LIBERALIZED PROGRAMS AND THERE'S A HUGE FOCUS IN OUR STATE ON TECHNICAL AND JOB READINESS EDUCATION.

THAT'S JUST A FACT.

SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE REALLY EMPHASIZING AT THE STATE COLLEGE SYSTEM WITH BEEFING UP THEIR NURSING PROGRAMS AND ALSO PLUMBING APPRENTICES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHEN I SAY PRODUCT IT'S BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ARTS ARE GOING AWAY OR BEING CONSOLIDATED AND THE MONEY IS POURING INTO THOSE JOB READINESS PROGRAMS.

THAT A PHILOSOPHICAL SHIFT FOR THE COLLEGE SYSTEM.

FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENTS OR FROM LOW INCOME FAMILIES, TRADITIONLY PEOPLE THAT GO TO THE STATE COLLEGE SYSTEM IT RAISES THE QUESTION OF DO THEY GET TO HAVE A LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION TOO OR SHOULD THEY JUST BE SCHULTZED INTO THE JOB READINESS PROGRAMS WHEREAS THE PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE THE RESOURCES TO GO TO UVM, OR A PRIVATE COLLEGE, ARE MORE LIKELY TO STUDY FILM ART OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> THANKS, ANNE.

SOMETHING WE'LL BE FOLLOWING UP WITH AS THE MONTHS GO ON.

IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS SINCE MORE THAN 2 MILLION WAS ALLOCATED TO START A DENTAL PROGRAM.

HOWEVER, STATE AUDITOR DOUG HOFFER SAYS IN A NEW REPORT DESPITE THE MONEY AND MANY YEARS NOT A SINGLE STUDENT HAS BEEN ENROLLED.

>> IT'S IMPORTANT WE TRACK THE MONEY BUT THAT'S NOT THE END OF THE CONVERSATION.

THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION.

THE MORE IMPORTANT CONVERSATION IS ARE THOSE FUNDS BEING USED TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS INTENDED BY THE LEGISLATURE IN ALL THOSE PROGRAMS.

THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.

>> SO COLIN, WHAT GIVES?

WHY HASN'T THIS VERMONT TECHNICAL COLLEGE PROGRAM GOTTEN OFF THE GROUND?

>> SOME PEOPLE MAY WONDER WHY IT'S SUCH A BIG DEAL.

THE CON TERBGS HERE AS ANYONE WHO HAS RECENTLY MOVED TO VERMONT CAN TELL YOU IT'S INCREDIBLY HARD TO FIND A DENTIST OR A DOCTOR IN GENERAL.

THEY CREATED THIS NEW LICENSURE, THE EQUIVALENT OF A PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT, PEOPLE WHO PERFORM USUALLY UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF FORMALLY TRAEUPBLD DENTISTS WHO CAN DO DIFFERENT PROCEDURES ON THEIR OWN.

THE HOPE IS THAT THIS WOULD HELP ADDRESS THE ACCESS WOES ESPECIALLY IN RURAL SYSTEMS.

THE COLLEGE SYSTEM HAS NOT MADE ANY PROGRESS ON THIS.

WHEN YOU ASK THEM ABOUT IT THEY SAY THIS IS A REALLY COMPLICATED THING.

WE'RE SETTING UP AN ENTAOEURL NEW PROFESSION.

THE AUDIT NOTES MISSED OPPORTUNITIES TO EVEN SUBMIT A PLAN FOR ACCREDITATION, THE FIRST STEP HERE.

THE COLLEGE SYSTEM SAYS THEY ARE WORKING ON IT AND HOPE TO GET IT FORWARD BUT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER SYMPTOM OF THE TURMOIL GOING ON THERE.

THERE IS A QUESTION OF WHETHER THERE'S A DEDICATION TO THIS PROGRAM AND WHETHER MORE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHETHER THEY ARE ABLE TO DO IT.

BEST ESTIMATES TO THIS POINT IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET UP AND RUNNING FOR A FEW MORE YEARS, WHICH WILL BE A FULL DECADE SINCE THE LEGISLATURE APPROPRIATED THIS.

THAT'S A LONG TIME.

>> THE PROBLEM ISN'T GOING AWAY WITH PEOPLE NEEDING DENTISTS TOO.

>> EXACTLY.

>> FOLLOWING THE SIGNIFICANT FLOODING VERMONT STATE OFFICIALS ARE ASKING THE FEDS TO SURVEY THE WRIGHTSVILLE AND EAST BARRE DAM.

WHAT DO THEY HOPE COMES OUT OF THIS?

>> THEY HOPE THAT THE DAMS CAN BE BASICALLY IMPROVED.

THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION ASKED THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO COMPLETE THESE FEASIBILITY STUDIES, THE TWO DAMS ARE LIKE FLOOD CONTROL DAMS ON THE WINOOSKI RIVER.

OF COURSE MANY VERMONTERS REMEMBERING DURING THE FLOODS IN JULY THE WATER LEVELS IN THE WRIGHTSVILLE DAM WERE RISEING TO A POINT OF EXTREME ANXIETY.

I THINK WE'RE LESS THAN FOOT AWAY FROM THE TOP OF THIS DAM.

EVERYTHING BUT CERTAINLY THE DAM DID NOT FAIL, THE WATER DID NOT COME OVER THE SPILLWAY OF THE DAM, BUT IT WAS LIKE VERY, VERY ANXIOUS TIME.

WHAT THE STATE IS SAYING TO THE FEDS IS, LOOK, BOTH THESE DAMS ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO BACK TO BACK STORMS.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ONE STORM.

THE FEAR IS THE FIRST STORM PERHAPS FILLED UP BEHIND THE DAM AND THEN WE GET MAYBE A BREAK THEN THE SECOND STORM CAUSES IT TO OVERFLOW.

WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR IS A WAY TO LET WATER OUT OF THE DAM MORE QUICKLY SO YOU CAN LOWER THE WATER LEVEL, HEAVY RAINFALL IS GOING TO FILL IT UP TO A POINT WHERE THAT'S SAFE AND NOT FILL UP AN ALREADY FULL DAM AND OVER FLOW IT.

>> THAT'S SOMETHING WE WILL BE FOLLOWING AS MORE INCREASINGLY BAD STORMS LIKE WE SAW THIS SUMMER COULD COME AGAIN.

THE FLOODING ALSO SWEPT AN UNTOLD AMOUNT OF DEBRIS, CHEMICALS AND ANYTHING THE WATER COULD GET HOLD OF INTO THE WINOOSKI RIVER AND NOW THREE-MONTHS LATER THE CLEANUP IS STILL CONTINUING.

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE VOLUNTEERS OUT TRYING TO HELP THE LAKE AND THE RIVER BE HEALTHIER?

>> YES.

THERE'S A GROUP CALLED FRIENDS OF WINOOSKI THAT HAS DEDICATED ITSELF THIS SUMMER AFTER THE FLOOD TO CLEANING UP SOME OF THE DEBRIS.

I WROTE ABOUT AN EFFORT IN PLAINFIELD AFTER A HEMP COMPANY DOWN ON THE RIVER LOST HUNDREDS OF ITEMS.

THEY LOST WHITE BAGS AND PLASTIC TUBS AND THEY WERE EMBEDDED IN THE BANKS OF THE OUI TPHAOSZ I CAN AND IT WAS UNSAFE TO GO OUT ON THE RIFF BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY SOFT.

NOT UNTIL SEPTEMBER DID COMMUNITY MEMBERS DECIDE TO GET TOGETHER AND START MOVING STUFF OUT.

FRIENDS OF THE WINOOSKI ORGANIZED CLEANUPS ALSO IN SEPTEMBER BUT THERE WAS SO MUCH STUFF IN THERE THAT A BUNCH OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS ADVERTISED WITH FRIENDS OF THE WINOOSKI AND GOT 25 PEOPLE WHO WERE NOBLE ENOUGH TO GET MUDDY AND DIRTY ALL DAY DRAGGING STUFF OUT OF THE BANKS OF THE RIVER.

ONE DRAGGED A BASKETBALL HOOP AND NET DOWN THE RIVERBANK TO THEY FILLED SEVEN DUMPSTERS FULL OF STUFF JUST IN PLAINFIELD FROM A TWO MILE STRETCH OF THE RIVER.

UNFORTUNATELY EVEN THOUGH THIS MAJOR -- I LIVE IN MARSHFIELD, WHICH WAS FLOODED, VERY EARLY PEOPLE HERE HAVE BEEN PULLING TIRES AND FREEZERS AND LAWN FURNITURE, LAWN FURNITURE IS A REALLY BIG THING BECAUSE IT WAS EVERYWHERE.

PLASTIC OUT OF THE RIVER YOU KEEP SEEING DEBRIS SURFACE IN THE RIVER.

IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENT OF THE FLOOD.

THE CLEANUP IS GOING TO CONTINUE AS THINGS RISE THAT WERE BURIED BEFORE.

>> AS THAT CLEANUP CONTINUES SOME ARE STILL WITHOUT BASIC NEEDS LIKE HEAT.

OVER THREE MONTHS IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE.

WHAT'S THE HOLDUP?

>> PART OF THE HOLDUP IS THAT IT'S HARD TO FIND A CONTRACTOR TO DO YOUR REPAIRS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WITHOUT HEAT, A REALLY SCARY PROSPECT, BUT UNTOLD OTHERS ARE P-LS WITHOUT OTHER REPAIRS FOR DAMAGE THAT WAS CAUSED BY THE FLOODS SUCH AS THEY NEED ELECTRICAL UPGRADES, SUMP PUMPS.

THE CONTRACTORS ARE SO BUSY IT'S HARD TO GET ANYONE IN THERE.

ALTHOUGH TPE 345 SPENT MILLIONS BRINGING PEOPLE TO VERMONT AND HOUSING THEM AND HAVING THEM SHOW UP HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR PEOPLE, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT FEMA HAS NOT ACTUALLY PAID OUT THAT MUCH CASH TO PEOPLE.

THEY REQUIRE TONS AND TONS OF PAPERWORK, WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS WITHIN THE CAPABILITIES OF PEOPLE TO COMPLETE.

IT'S REALLY HOURS OF ADMINISTRATIVE WORK AND YOU NEED A GOOD INTERNET CONNECTION BECAUSE THEY HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE TO DOWNLOAD THINGS OR MEET THEM IN CERTAIN PLACES AND AFTER THAT PAPERWORK AND FINAL APPEALS YOU OFTEN DON'T GET ANY MONEY OUT OF IT.

WHEN ASKED ABOUT THIS FEMA WILL SAY YOU NEED TO FILE ANOTHER APPEAL.

I HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM ARGUMENTS FOR HOMEOWNERS AROUND THE STATE WHO GAVE UP LONG AGO TRYING TO GET MONEY OUT OF FEMA OR WHO ARE STILL PURSUING GETTING MONEY TO REPLACE THEIR APPLIANCES, THEIR HOT WATER HEATERS, THEIR HEATERS, AND PRIVATE GROUPS ARE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO MEMBERSHIP WITH THAT.

WOODSTOCK HAS RESOURCES ON HAND BECAUSE THEY PUT A FUND TOGETHER IN THE PANDEMIC TO HELP PEOPLE WITH HOME REPAIRS.

THERE'S OTHER PLACES WHERE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY ON HAND.

NOW PRIVATE GROUPS ARE TRYING TO FULL IN WHERE FEMA SAID IT WAS GOING TO HELP AND IT HASN'T.

>> THANKS, ANNE.

FOR ANYONE WHO HAS NOT APPLIED FOR FEMA ASSISTANCE JUST AS A REMINDER THERE'S TWO WEEKS LEFT TO DO THAT.

SO NOW MOVING ON TO BURLINGTON AS THE DRUG CRISIS CONTINUES THE CITY HAS SEEN A MAJOR SURGE IN JUST HOW MANY NEEDLE THE ARE VISIBLE ON THE STREETS.

YOU SHADOWED TED MILES WHO HAS THE CITY CLEANING UP NEEDLES EACH DAY.

>> TED IS -- WORKS IN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICE, HE ASSUMED THIS ROLE BECAUSE SOMEONE HAD TO.

FOR A TIME IT WAS BEING CONDUCTED BY THE SAFE RECOVERY SYRINGE EXCHANGE PROGRAM IN BURLINGTON BUT THEY HAD TO SCALE BACK DUE TO STAFFING ISSUES.

TED IS SEEING A LOT OF NEEDLES AROUND ABAROMETER OF THE STATE AND BURLINGTON'S WORSENING DRUG CRISIS.

IN SOME WAYS IT'S TO BE EXPECTED.

THE CHANGES IN THE DRUG SUPPLY AND ESPECIALLY THE DOMINANCE OF FENTANYL IS LEADING PEOPLE TO USE DRUGS MORE ON WHICH WHICH MEANS MORE NEEDLES.

THE CITY IS TRYING TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM, THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THE ISSUE AND ARE TRYING TO TAKE QUICK STEPS TO CLEAN UP THE STREETS.

THEY ARE HOPEFUL THAT A NEW PROGRAM AT SAFE RECOVERY THAT INCENTIVIZES PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS TO BRING IN USED NEEDLES AND THEY CAN DRAW OUT OF A FISH BOWL AND POTENTIALLY WIN A PRIZE.

THE BIG THING HERE IS GETTING MORE PEOPLE INTO TREATMENT ADVOCATES SAY.

I WAS FASCINATED BY TOAD SEEING HIM WALK THROUGH THE CITY, HEARING HIM TALK ABOUT THIS.

HE HIMSELF WAS ONCE HOMELESS AND WAS STRUGGLING WITH ALCOHOLISM.R PEOPLE.

EVERY OCTOBER HE GOES OUT AND BUYS SOCKS FOR PEOPLE.

SOMETIMES WHEN HE'S NAVIGATING WHAT I DESCRIBE IN MY STORY AS THIS URBAN UNDERBELLY OF THE CITY THAT PEE MOST PEOPLE DON'T SEE HE RUNS INTO PEOPLE WHO ARE USING DRUGS OR HAVE JUST USED DRUGS AND HE WILL SIT WITH THEM, TALK TO THEM, MAKE SURE THEY WILL BE OKAY.

THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF NUMEROUS IN THE CITY WHERE WE CAN SEE AND FEEL THE IMPACTS OF THE DRUG CRISIS.

THE THING THAT ADVOCATES WORRY ABOUT IS THE FRUSTRATION OVER THE NUISANCE IS GOING TO LEAD MORE PEOPLE TO REVERT BACK TO SOME OF THE HARDER LINE WAR ON DRUGS POLICIES THAT MOST PEOPLE AGREE DID NOT REALLY HELP.

SO IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW THAT MIGHT PLAY OUT.

A BIG MESSAGE HERE IS THAT EMPATHY AND COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING THAT BEHIND EVERY NEEDLE IS A PERSON STRUGGLING WITH A DISEASE.

>> WHAT REALLY STRUCK ME I HAVE ALSO SPOKEN TO TED HE SAID WHERE IT USED TO BE A REPORT OF A NEEDLE WOULD HAVE ONE AT THE LOCATION AND HE WILL SHOW UP AND THERE COULD BE 30 OR 40 IN BAGGIES.

SO DEFINITELY A BAROMETER OF THE PROBLEMS GOING ON.

ANOTHER BAROMETER, NEWS BROKE THIS WEEK IN BURLINGTON, OUTDOOR GEAR EXCHANGE ANNOUNCED THEY WILL BE DOWNSIZING THEIR FLAGSHIP LOCATION IN BURLINGTON AND MOVING PART OF THEIR STORE TO ESSEX.

FOR ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN IN DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON IT'S A STAPLE OF ALMOST ANYTHING YOU FLOOD OUTDOORS.

WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT THE CITY NOW?

>> ONE CO-OWNER WAS VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF THE THEFT PROBLEM IN DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN RETAIL THEFT CRIMES TIED TO THE DRUG PROBLEM.

THIS IS REALLY PART OF THE CHANGING RETAME LANDSCAPE WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE RETREAT OF DOWNTOWN OFFICE WORKERS INTO REMOTE POSITIONS AND IN BURLINGTON WE HAVE A BIG STATE BUILDING WHERE USUALLY UP TO 400 STATE EMPLOYEES WORK.

NOW IT'S HOLLOWED OUT AND THE PLAN IS TO MOVE THEM TO WATERBURY FORCING BUSINESSES TO RETHINK THEIR STRATEGY HERE.

OGEHAZARDOUS PLANS TO OPEN UP SOON A SECOND STORE IN ESSEX SAYING THAT'S AN ATTEMPT TO REACH THOSE PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT BE COMING DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON BECAUSE OF THEIR JOBS.

HE SAYS WE HAVE TO GO TO WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE.

I DO KNOW THAT THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION IS RAISING ALARMS ABOUT THE SHOPLIFTING PROBLEMS CAUSING PEOPLE TO RETHINK WHETHER THEY WANT TO BE ON CHURCH STREET.

THE CITY HAS BEEN STRESSING THAT DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON IS VERY BUSY AND PEOPLE ARE STILL COMING.

IT'S AN INTERESTING TENSION BETWEEN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THE CITY WHICH WANTS TO PROJECT THIS IMAGE OF A STRONG, BUSTLING PLACE.

>> THERE WAS RECENT NEWS OF A POTENTIAL NEW OVERNIGHT WARMING SHELTER FOR PEOPLE WHO DESPERATELY NEED IT THIS WINTER.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THE CITY OF BURLINGTON IS MOVING FORWARD WITH A PROPOSAL TO OPEN UP A NEW WARMING SHELTER IN THE FORMER VFW, LEFT VACANT EARLIER THIS YEAR.

THE CHAMPLAIN HOUSING TRUST PLANS TO EVENTUALLY BUILD HOUSING HERE BUT IN THE MEANTIME THE CITY IS STEPPING IN TO TRY TO ADDRESS WHAT IT SAYS IS A DRAMATIC RISE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE UP HOUSED.

THEY THINK THE CITY HOMELESSNESS LIAISON RECENTLY CITED DATA THAT SHOWED BETWEEN LAST YEAR AND NOW IT'S BEEN AN INCREASE OF 80 TO 200.

A LOT OF PEOPLE NEED PLACES TO STAY.

THE PROPOSAL IS TO OPEN UP THE SHELTER OVERNIGHT THROUGH THE WINTER MONTHS.

IT WILL HAVE ROOM FOR 30 PEOPLE, MAYBE SOME OVERFLOW.

THAT'S NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH AND THE CITY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT.

THEY HOPE THE STATE HOUSING PROGRAM EMERGENCY SHELTER WILL ADDRESS THE NEEDS.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOW BARRIER SHELTER, WHICH MEANS PEOPLE EVEN IF THEY MIGHT BE SUFFERING FROM THE IMPACTS OF THEIR ADDICTIONS OR SUBSTANCE USE OR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, THERE'S AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT WE NEED MORE PLACES THAT HAVE NO BARRIERS, PLACES PEOPLE CAN GO EVEN WHEN THEY ARE STRUGGLING BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS WE'RE SEEING.

>> GREAT.

THANKS.

WE'LL SEE IF THAT COMES TO FRUITION, RIGHT?

JUST UP THE HILL FROM THAT IS UVM, BUT THE UNIVERSITY IS SEEING A DIP IN THE AMOUNT OF VERMONTERS ACTUALLY ATTENDING.

RECENT REPORTS SHOWS ONE QUARTER OF STUDENTS WHO ARE VERMONTERS ENROLLING.

WHAT'S BEHIND THIS?

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS THERE'S BEEN A LONG DECLINE IN THE PERCENTAGE OF UVM UNDERGRADS FROM VERMONT.

MAYBE 20 YEARS AGO IT WAS 40%, NOW LESS THAN A QUARTER.

TO TIE BACK, UVM AND VERMONT STATE UNIVERSITY ARE HAVING THE EXACT SAME PROM.

THAT IS THERE ARE NOT MANY STUDENTS FROM VERMONT THAT GO TO COLLEGE IN VERMONT.

THERE'S ALSO NOT THAT MANY STUDENTS IN VERMONT, PERIOD.

SO THE POPULATION OF HIGH SCHOO% STUDENTS, HIGH SCHOOL GRADS IN VERMONT HAS DECLINED OVER THE YEARS.

WE'RE A SMALL STATE, A STATE THAT'S GROWING OLDER.

SCHOOLS ALL ACROSS STATE ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS ENROLLMENT CRISIS.

SO IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT UVM DOES AND WHAT VERMONT STATE DOES.

U.V.M.

HAS LOOKED OUTSIDE OF THE BORDERS AND MANAGED TO MARKET ITSELF AS THIS DESIRABLE INSTITUTION FOR OUT OF STATE STUDENTS.

OBVIOUSLY OUT OF STATE STUDENTS PAY MUCH HIGHER TUITION, SOMETHING LIKE 20 OR 25,000 A YEAR HIGHER THAN IN-STATE.

A LOT OF IN-STATE STUDENTS GET FREE TUITION OR SIGNIFICANT SCHOLARSHIPS.

SO THIS IS SORT OF THE ONE PIECE THAT THEY MANAGED TO BRING IN TO STAY HEALTHY AND TO SURVIVE.

I THINK WHERE IT RUNS INTO FRICTION IS WHEN THE UNDERGRAD ENROLLMENT OF UVM INCREASES THAT REALLY PUTS A STRAIN ON AND THIS TIES BACK TO THE BURLINGTON STUFF, BURLINGTON'S HOUSING SITUATION WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY IN SUCH A STRAEUPBT STATE, SO FEW PLACES TO LIVE.

WHEN THERE'S A TON OF UNDERGRADS I THINK IN PAST YEARS IT HAS GONE UP BY 100 OR 200 A YEAR, THAT CAN LEAD TO TOWN AND GOWN FRICTION.

>> THANKS, PETER.

DEFINITELY A LOT OF EDUCATION STORIES TO WATCH MOVING FORWARD.

THAT'S WHERE WE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE IT FOR YOU TODAY.

THANKS TO OUR PANEL COLIN FLANDERS FROM SEVEN DAYS, VTDIGGER'S PETER DORA AND REMOTELY ANNE WALLACE ALLEN FROM SEVEN DAYS.

I'M KATHARINE HUNTLEY WITH WCAX.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU RIGHT BACK HERE NEXT WEEK.