(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to The Journal, I'm Steve Kendall.

Spring is here, summer's just around the corner.

Of course one of the things that means is it's time for road construction season in Ohio.

Here to talk about that, but also some of the other aspects of the Ohio Department of Transportation deals with the challenges, are Rebecca Dangelo, the Public Information for ODOT District Two, and also Pat McColley from ODOT Two he's the Deputy Director and Pat let's talk a little about the fact that one of the main things that ODOT is really concerned about besides building good roads and maintaining them, is the fact that the safety is the paramount driver for what the Department of Transportation does.

- Yeah, absolutely Steve, this is safety is behind every decision we make.

And really when we build roads, we are trying to make safer conditions.

So a lot of people might be scratching their heads and wondering, why are you doing this?

Or why are you doing that?

Safety plays a factor in every decision we make.

And that really leads to, you know there's only so much we can do with the roadway system as well to make a safer roadway system.

And some of it also is on a driver habits and how how people are driving out there as well.

- Yeah and I know one of the things that everybody's concerned about and I know that it's become very important is the fact that it seems that even though there are fewer people on the roads over the past year because of COVID and all the other things that were going on, distracted driving still seems to be the major issue when it comes to people being safe on the roadways.

And as you said, you've tried it you can design the roads the best you can and implement them the best you can.

But if people aren't paying attention, that makes it difficult for things to function properly.

So talk a little bit about distracted driving and what the efforts are from ODOT's perspective to help with that.

- Yeah I mean, those are some great points.

Actually last year, traffic was down overall for the whole entire year.

And we were only in this pandemic, you know, we're shut down and the pandemic, you know, stay at homers and as well as people working from home, we weren't doing that the whole year but last year traffic was down 15%.

So overall traffic is down 15% actually truck traffic was up.

Passenger vehicles were down even more than that but we actually have seen an increase in fatality year over year going into 20, but specifically in 2020, fatalities actually went up 7% compared to 2019.

So intuitively you would almost think, well, you guys have 15% less traffic on the road.

You should also have less fatalities.

That's actually has not been the case.

It's actually been fatalities have gone up.

And actually, I think it was either June or July was one of the highest fatality months that we've seen in a decade.

So that's very concerning to us.

It should be concerning to everyone.

And that's really, you know that's really a driver towards what we're doing and the statistics we're looking at.

But even bigger than just last year, you know fatalities have continued to rise and that's really why we need to start improving and curbing driver habits.

One of those initiatives is hands-free Ohio.

There will be a bill introduced in probably within the next month or so, to the general assembly to make a primary offense to drive distracted.

It's essentially, you know, using your phone, watching videos, I've seen people reading newspapers while they're driving, watching TV while they're driving.

You know, that those type of activities are extremely dangerous and they're really putting other people's lives on the road in danger.

And that needs to stop.

So it would make it a primary offense and we wouldn't be the first state to do this.

There's actually a number of other States.

- Yeah and you make a good point because it seems as if the easier we make it for people to drive, you design the roads to make traffic flow properly and merge properly and all of that.

But it seems as if almost, as you said volumes down fatalities are up.

The more you improve the roads I guess the more relaxed people get about how they use them maybe, and I know statistically that's probably something for other people to dive into but it does seem that more and more 'cause everybody's got anecdotal, you know information they're out driving, they go, wow you can't believe what I saw today.

And so some of that is actually proving out statistically it basically what you're saying.

And we've got to figure out a way to do something with that.

So maybe the hands-free thing is at least a start to that to get, make people more serious about that.

- Yeah with that hands-free initiative, like Pat said, Ohio is not the first state to try and look at this.

So we actually looked at what other States that have similar laws, you know like how they are fairing what they've seen, in 12 out of 15 States and the district of Columbia has this as well, they experienced a decrease in the fatalities within two years.

So I mean, 12 out of 15, that's a pretty insignificant stat.

And then six of those States in DC saw a decrease of more than 20% in their fatalities.

So, you know, when we talk about these stats, you know these numbers kind of don't really mean too much to us but when you think about that fatality, that's a human life.

Those are huge, you know seeing a 20% decrease in fatality rates.

That's amazing.

- Yeah and that's a significant improvement.

And you're right I guess it's one of those things that we, I guess when we get in our cars and especially now because we can't do anything without a phone in our hands anymore, that just getting in your car just to some people just seems normal to grab their phone and start doing things.

And the reality is, that's not what you should be doing in a car.

You should be paying attention to what's going on around you.

And so you, yeah you need to move in these directions to make it people understand the seriousness of what they're doing when they pick up their phone while driving or look at it or do whatever.

And it's not just them, as you said, it's not just them that are, it's not themselves that are they're putting in danger.

They're putting everybody else around them in danger as well.

So it's a step that has to be taken, as you said we're not the first.

And you know, it's something just has to be done.

- And I would also add to it Steve is, you know, when we look at other fatalities like specific users, pedestrian fatalities in 2020 compared to 19 we're up 29%.

- [Steve] Wow.

- Intersection fatalities are up 33%.

Motorcycle fatalities are up 23%.

So what that tells me is, you know, our most vulnerable users on our roadway system, are generally pedestrians, people driving bicycles, people walking, might be crossing through a crosswalk, running alongside a road.

Motorcycles are also a vulnerable user of a roadway system.

They're just, it's, they're not they're less likely to survive a crash if they get into it.

And then the intersections are where you need to pay attention.

And actually, as well as the motorcycle and pedestrians, those are all situations people need to pay attention.

They need to put the phone down and get their eyes up and pay attention.

And that you kind of, it just doesn't seem like it was happening in 2020.

And the statistics show that, you know we we've had an increase in all of those areas even greater than the overall increase in the state.

So that's very concerning too, like with our pedestrians and everything else.

So are people not paying as much attention anymore?

I mean, there's less traffic on the road.

So we can't say that there's more traffic on the road causing them, it makes you wonder.

- Yeah and it's a good point because as you said earlier, fewer people on the road should mean fewer accidents, fewer fatalities, fewer incidents.

And yet the opposite seems to have happened and it, yeah.

And it has to come back to the fact that possibly because there isn't a lot of traffic, people are even less interested in paying attention to what they're doing because there isn't anything around them.

And I guess that's a, again, seems backwards but that seems to be the case.

And I know I'm a bicycle rider and I don't like to go out on the streets or roads.

I ride the trails.

Because you just know that not everybody sees you, even though you might have every flasher on, you're doing everything right.

A lot of times you can tell drivers don't know you're there, and it doesn't matter whether it's a truck, a car or a motorcycle, whatever you're invisible out there because moving at a different speed and you're not big and you're not large and that sort of stuff.

So it does point back to what you guys have both said that people just aren't as aware for whatever reason whether it's distracted driving or whatever about what's going on around them.

So it's a, it's something that, yeah, we're trying to get our arms around, obviously.

So yeah, when we come back, let's talk about, you know and I know that we, you mentioned roundabouts and some of that and some of the other safety things that we're trying to build in.

So we come back, let's talk more about that.

We'll be back on The Journal in just a moment here on WBGU PBS.

Thanks for staying with us here on The Journal.

Our guests are Pat McColley, the Deputy Director of Ohio Department of Transportation District two and the Public Information Officer from that office, Rebecca Dangelo.

We talked a lot about safety in that first segment.

And we talked about a little bit about road design.

And as you said, when we opened up the program Pat that safety is always the primary objective when it comes to designing new roads, new intersections that sort of thing.

Talk about the fact that obviously new to this area significantly at least over the past few years, are things like roundabouts and divergent diamonds and some of these things that are going in now that people are adapting to.

And so talk about the science behind those.

It isn't just a whim that somebody said, "Hey that would look cool to put a round in there."

Talk about why those are effective and why they're a significant safety improvement.

- Yeah, absolutely.

They, you are seeing a lot more of them out there and we're putting them in counties that haven't seen them before.

I will say that, you know, usually when we put them in an area that they don't have one within 20 or 30 miles of there, people they might not be the most accepting of the roundabout when it originally goes in, but there is good reason.

And there's good data that supports those decisions.

I did want to talk about a little bit about our safety program.

Which is a big reason why we're putting a lot of them in.

Our safety program has Governor DeWine has put 50% more funding in the safety program.

He is very, safety on our highways is one of the most important things to him and his administration.

Partly due to, he lost his daughter in a car accident.

And that was a tragedy that really shaped his life.

But it's also that it also carries with him to today and his priorities and his administration.

So with that being said, like you said there's a lot of roundabouts going in.

So people are asking, you know, why put them in or will they handle the traffic?

Or, you know people don't like come out here, whatever their reasons are.

The reasons we put them in, is because they're safer.

They're more efficient in many cases.

And quite frankly, sometimes they're a lot of times were cheaper than a light and some people might not realize or they might not believe that yeah.

If there will be some times we've got to sit down with people and say, "Hey these are the expense of a light."

But really the slower speeds.

So when you're approaching a roundabout, you have to slow down, it's not like, Hey I got a green light.

I can go 40 miles an hour or 45 or 50.

Everybody's slowing down to get into that roundabout.

And to make it through that intersection whichever way they're going.

There's fewer conflict points what we call it.

So a conflict point is a point where an accident can happen or a crash can happen.

There's eight of those compared to 32 with a typical intersection.

So that makes it safer.

So you kind of wonder, we talked about fatalities a lot in the last segment.

So what does intersections, you know what the fatality rate has been in intersections in 2020.

So around about is actually 90% more efficient and there's a 90% reduction in fatalities in a roundabout compared to the typical intersection.

- Okay.

- So you wonder, you know, getting back to the safety element, like, okay, how we're having let's say we're having some fatalities and serious injuries and crashes at an intersection and we look at it like, what's some things we could do?

Yeah, you can put a traffic light there, maybe put another stop sign there, whatever the case is.

But really the most, one of the most effective things to reduce fatalities and serious crashes at that intersection is to put a roundabout it.

And it's, it's my 82% more effective or reduction in serious crashes.

And so, and it's around 30 something percent as far as crashes overall.

So again, like, yeah you might be reducing 30% of the crashes but you're reducing 78% of the serious injury crashes and 90% of the fatality crashes.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- So that's really the safety data behind it.

And again, oftentimes they're more efficient.

I can tell you from, and Steve, you're in BG as well.

And our district headquarters in BG, when we put in the double roundabout interchange at Wooster that has never flowed better.

And it used to be a traffic light.

And I used to have to go to Columbus.

I still do go to Columbus, but I would be backed up trying to get on 75 South at that light.

I can tell you, I think maybe I've ever had to wait for maybe one, maybe two vehicles in front of me ever since that double roundabout interchange went in.

So I'm not, there's not any data behind what I'm just sitting right there, but I can tell you from my personal experience, it has been much more efficient as well.

- Well, like you said, there's like and we can use these in a variety of different places.

So, you know, some of our rural counties are starting to get roundabouts and we understand, you know it's kind of intimidating when it's something new.

So we just want to remind people it's pretty simple.

If you've ever driven in a cul-de-sac and you're trying to get to your friend's house it's kind of the same concept.

You're going to slow down going into the circle.

You're going to look to your left.

If there's nobody coming, then you can just proceed.

You don't have to stop.

If there is somebody, obviously, please do stop.

But then you go around the circle until you get to your exit, and then you just continue on your way.

So it keeps you going.

But like Pat said, you know, the reduction in crashes and reductions in fatalities and severe crashes is incredible.

I mean, we put some roundabouts last year we put up three roundabouts along US 28, there's already a fourth one out there.

And those where to really help 28 is kind of long, straight shot so people were flying down it.

And then, you know, if you're on the crossroads trying to make that cross, it was pretty sketchy.

We saw a lot of bad crashes out there, you know high speed T-bone crashes, and those have those fatalities, have that high severity.

But when you're in that roundabout, like Pat said you're forced to go slower.

There's fewer conflict points.

And even if you do get in a crash, your angle's now like this, instead of being, you know, side T-boned right into either to the driver or the passenger side.

So even, you know, we can't stop all the crashes but we're definitely improving the safety with the roundabouts.

- Yeah and common sense would tell you that slower speeds and 90 degree angles are lot, you know, the slower speeds and not having those points of conflict where people are literally crossing in front of each other would tend to make things safer.

It's just that at first people were a little, they didn't quite know how those things worked.

And I know that now a lot of them have signs as you approach them and say, you know, roundabout ahead, flashing lights, arrows to make sure people turn the correct way when they get to them.

Because I know occasionally people would go left and kind of go clockwise through it instead of following the counterclockwise flow.

But it's all a learning curve.

But in the end, obviously a lot safer because people are going to be going slower and you aren't getting those 90 degree angles, those T crashes, as you said that are usually pretty deadly to everybody involved.

So, yeah.

And the same thing too now, you talk about the divergent diamonds and some of those other things as well.

How have people adapted to those?

Because again, we're so used to typical intersections.

Those are a little more complex but they do flow traffic a lot better.

I guess that's part of the goal too.

- Yeah I was pretty new as a public information officer when we were building the divergent diamond in Perrysburg there along say about 25 so, I remember trying to explain to people what this would look like, and it is scary.

You know, you're telling people they're gonna drive on the opposite side of the road and they're like how is this going to happen?

People are concerned there's going to be wrong way entrances onto the interstate because you're on the opposite side of the road.

There's just a lot of confusion anytime there's something new.

So with the diverging diamonds, you know we talked about the conflict points with roundabouts.

We're seeing the same thing with the diverging diamonds.

We're going from 32 conflict points in typical intersection to 14.

So again, you know, anytime we can reduce the number of conflict points is a huge win.

And it also, you know despite how it may sound in your head when you're explaining it, entering the wrong way to go onto the interstate, is actually extremely difficult with the way that a DDI is designed.

It is designed for that, you know, follow the road, follow the signage and there's lane markings and it'll be very difficult.

And then also like pedestrians like on 25 is the perfect example.

They can easily use that.

It, we can accommodate the bicyclists, the pedestrians trying to get across and they have shorter crossing.

So it really is a very beneficial multi-modal kind of design when we're looking at improving interchanges.

- Yeah and, and we come back, I know that we have some of the first ones that went into the state, whether they were not necessarily roundabouts but the diverging diamonds and some of the other things that you have in the works for some of the other major intersections especially on the 475 corridor.

So let's talk about what you have in the works for that and how those are going to improve traffic flow in those areas as well.

Back in just a moment with Pat McColley, Deputy Director of ODOT Two and the Public Information Officer from ODOT Two, Rebecca Dangelo, back on The Journal in just a moment.

You're with us here on The Journal our guests are Pat McColley, the Deputy Director of Ohio Department of Transportation, District Two located in Bowling Green and the Public Information Officer from that office, Rebecca Dangelo.

In the earlier segment, we talked about these newer designs, roundabouts, DVIs, diverging diamonds, all those sorts of things.

Obviously, we're going to see more of those.

And I know that in the works, you have several projects.

One of them's underway at Dorr Street right now along the $75, US 23 corridor.

But talk about some of the things that people are going to see, some of the projects like that and what the expectations are of those in terms of safety and traffic flow improvement, things of that nature.

- Yeah Steve, so the Dorr Street project as you mentioned, is currently ongoing.

It will be a double roundabout interchange.

So similar to the one in Bowling Green there on Wooster Street, and it's a new interchange.

It's going to be the one of the gateways to the University of Toledo.

That was actually the longest stretch bit without an interchange.

So between yeah, when you look at between the airport and Central that was longest stretch in the 475 loop without an interchange.

So that interchange will be going in, it should be operational, or it will be operational I should say by the time the Solheim Cup comes.

- [Steve] Oh wow okay.

- So it's common, it's getting close.

That is part of a bigger project though, which is widening of 475 or the continuation of widening 475.

And that, again, that'll be from airport to Central.

Our next big project, which kind of gets into what we were talking about before with DDIs, is going to also be widening 475 from US 24 to airport.

- [Steve] Oh okay good.

(laughs) - So now, yeah, so now you'll have, there'll be plenty of orange barrels that I'm sorry to say but once those orange barrels go away, just like 75 is now going to Findlay, it is a very, it just it reduces congestion and makes it a very nice drive and we operate more efficiently and you know this area being such a logistics hotbed that's very critical.

But so that'll be, so again, 2022 we're going to bid out the widening of 475 from 24 to airport.

And that will include a 20A interchange by Dana corporation.

There's not an interchange there now.

That interchange will be another diverging diamond interchange, or we call it DDI interchange, similar to the one on state route 25 in Perrysburg.

So we'll be putting another DDI in, the one in Perrysburg was the second one in the state.

So I think there have been a few others, I will say kind of similar to what Rebecca said when we talk about DDIs in the public and roundabouts in the public, especially DDIs like, I think people got used to it.

I mean, people are everybody I've talked to, loves the one in Perrysburg.

But when they were putting DDIs in other areas of the state, they're experiencing some of those same issues that people , they told me ever since driver's ed I had to drive on the right side of the road.

Now you're telling me I got to drive on the left side of the road?

Yes that's what we're telling you - It's a little disconcerting at first, because you're right It's like, Oh, wait a minute.

I'm on the wrong side of the road.

No, you're on the, you're okay.

You're okay.

But at first it's tricky.

Yeah.

At first you feel uncomfortable, but yeah.

Like anything else you get familiar with it, so, yeah.

Yeah, okay.

- And in addition to that, the I-475 project with Dorr street, which like Pat said adding an interchange is kind of unheard of.

So that's super awesome that we have that project going.

We also have a mega project on I-75 and there's a lot of safety components with that.

It's primarily widening and reconstructing, but we are redoing those interchanges with the Anthony Wayne Trail.

So I don't know if anybody's familiar with that, but that you used to enter from the left side merging from the left, and we've updated that, you know obviously to improve safety now people will be entering from the right side.

So there's a lot of cool things happening in the greater Toledo area with these projects that obviously also are improving the safety.

- And let me ask you a question, cause I know Pat you touched about the fact that we're going to add lane, add a third lane from US 24 up to airport highway.

When you guys set up a project to begin with, this is diverting a little bit or diverging what we were talking about.

Why wasn't that always three lanes through there to begin with?

Was there a reason why it wasn't built?

Was that a traffic volume decision?

I mean, 'cause anyone could look at that road 20 years ago and say this should have been three lanes in 2000, not in 2020.

I mean, so what goes into that?

And we just got a couple of minutes, but try to explain why certain projects aren't full expanded like that.

Why that wasn't designed as a three lane highway from the get go.

- Yeah, absolutely.

You design roads to meet the capacity in the future, but also today.

So when the interstate highway system was built in the fifties and sixties, they weren't going to add more than what they needed at that time.

- [Steve] Got it.

- So it would just be, it would be very cost prohibitive but it would also mean other projects aren't getting done across the nation and across the state.

And now you got extra pavement that you got to maintain as well.

- [Steve] Right.

- So now with traffic volumes except for last year but they've continued to, for the most part go up, you know that puts a bigger burden on the system.

And I, you know and I will say like with the greater Toledo area, they were ranked number one for site selection magazine as far as like places where companies are going, a lot of them are logistics companies.

So this area is a logistics hotbed as well.

And part of that is because of, you know the good interstate system but also the class one rail lines the Gordie Howe Bridge going in, it's going to make it even more important once that's done and go into Canada.

And then we got a great sea port here in this area as well.

So there's just a lot of reasons why, you know, the, you see more and more traffic volumes and crashes related to that, that actually dictate that, Hey, now's the time but it takes years if not decades.

I mean, they were talking about the 20A interchange in the nineties.

- [Steve] Right.

They were talking about the Dorr Street interchange has been talked about for a couple of decades probably a decade or more, you know, these are major funding decisions that take a lot of time with design.

But they also take a lot of time to get that funding.

So it's yeah, they take a long time to get through the environmental process.

Just a lot of time.

But once they're finally done, you know, that sets this area up for success in the years and decades to come.

- Yeah and as you said and we're going to have to kind of leave it right there plus the fact that it improves the safety for everyone who is using any of those highways or streets or roads or passing through those interchanges or intersections or whatever that in the end that's also the benefit to that.

It makes it a safer for people to drive with the assumption that they're paying enough attention to take advantage of all those improvements.

So want to thank both of you for being on to talk about this and we'll have you back on in the future as these things progress and you can update us on how you know, volume hopefully this year is going to increase because we're getting back to normal, that sort of thing.

But thanks again to Pat McColley and Rebecca Dangelo from ODOT Two.

Appreciate you guys coming on to talk about how it looks from your perspective versus how sometimes we look at it from a driving perspective and how this all works, how this all comes together.

So appreciate your taking the time with us today to do that.

So thank you again.

- [Pat] Thank you.

- [Rebecca] Thank you.

- And you can check us out each week wbgu.org.

And of course you can watch us each week on WBGU PBS.

We'll see you again next time on The Journal.

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