[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - Folks we're now joined by Anjuli Ramos-Busot who is the director of the New Jersey Sierra Club.

Their website will be up right away.

Anjuli, great to have you with us.

- Thank you Steve.

Thank you for having me.

- You got it.

Describe the work of the Sierra Club.

- Well, we are the oldest nonprofit environmental organization in the country.

We basically we're founded with the creation of national parks in the country and ever since, we've been dedicated for the protection of our environment in centering environmental justice and all the work that we do.

Sierra Club has an office in every state of the country.

So we focus on local work at the same time as federal and national work.

- We've had several members of the Senate in New Jersey, particularly Republican senators and others who have argued that the Wind Energy Initiative that's been put out by the Board of Public Utilities and the Energy Master Plan, the Clean Energy Initiative, and Governor Murphy, in fact, that the plan as it relates to wind energy is losing popular support.

The Monmouth University poll showed that support has dropped dramatically and those senators have said, "We need to pause.

A moratorium.

Stop wind energy initiatives now because A, we don't know what it costs, and B, we don't know what it's doing to whales."

Loaded question, I know.

Go ahead.

- Very loaded.

Thanks, Steve.

So I wanna start by the recent polling conducted by Monmouth University.

Unfortunately, and this is the saddest thing that has happened to the offshore wind development in the country, is that it has become partisan.

What the polling does show is that we still see Democratic support for the initiative, for transitioning away from fossil fuels into renewable energy like offshore wind.

But the support has definitely decreased from the Republican side of things.

So what it does show is that it's significantly partisan as we can see from the Republican leadership with their concerns and all of the opposition that we've been experiencing these past couple of months to address the impacts on marine wildlife.

I think it's been said quite a lot that there is no evidence at all that suggests that offshore wind surveying work is the cause for the unusual mortality event for whales in the New York, New Jersey Bight.

What there is a lot of data showing is that unusual mortality events for whales is they're happening across the entire country and it's way more complicated than just one variable.

- Anjuli, at the same time I appreciate you using the term partisan and to disclose we have a grant from the Clean Energy Program to do public awareness around clean energy issues with no particular point of view.

Obviously, from our perspective is to educate folks.

And one of the things we need to educate folks about is that in some cases this is not partisan, that the leader of the state senate in New Jersey, Nick Scutari, the leader of the General Assembly, Craig Coughlin, are also saying, "Time out."

- Yeah.

- "We don't know what's going on and we need to pause before we move forward with wind energy initiatives."

They're the two most prominent Democrats in the state.

So it isn't just Republicans.

Respectfully, please.

- Yeah, no, that is a great question, Steve.

So what I have to say about that is that the opposition is very public, it's very loud, and as responsible politicians and responsible elected officials, they're responding to the concerns of their constituents and that's their public announcement that they had, I believe like a month ago.

And this is just to ensure that everything is being done responsibly.

And I believe they were specifically talking about tourism impacts.

And I wanna assure everybody that all of this is being considered while conducting the permitting and the evaluation of impacts, not just to the environment, but also to the economy of the Jersey Shore and all of the towns that are going to be involved in the development of this industry.

So they want more answers, but the answers are coming, the answers are part of the entire evaluation.

- Senator Declan O'Scanlon and Senator Tony Bucco, two leading Republicans in the Senate said, "Look, Steve, why can't we just level with people about the quote 'cost' of this to frankly homeowners, renters, others" Because what Bucco and O'Scanlon argued is when I questioned, said, "Wait a minute, why are there ads out saying the governor's trying to take your stove?"

They said, "No, it's not mandatory now.

But with supporters who are in the governor's ear, sooner or later it's gonna come to a mandate and they are gonna take your stove."

You say?

- I think that is completely unreasonable and impossible.

There is no action to which anyone, the stove police, as we call it, is gonna come into your house and take away your stove.

What it has been shown is that actually electrifying your appliances is better for your own health.

So we are increasing awareness and education as you were just saying, Steve, about the benefits of such transition to electric appliances and that is what the Murphy administration is very, it's doing very well.

And so it is up to the consumer to do that transition.

No one will ever take your stove away or any natural gas appliance.

It's really up to the homeowner.

- What about the cost issue?

- The cost issue- - There's a good percent of the senators are saying, the Republican senators and others are saying, "Hey, level with people about the cost."

Why don't we know the cost?

- Well, I think we're all experiencing huge inflation.

We've been experiencing supply chain issues since COVID.

It's impacting every single industry in the country.

It's impacting us directly with our daily actions.

So it is naive to think that this is not going to impact such a big industry like the offshore wind industry.

This is something that it's starting from scratch in New Jersey with huge economic opportunity and economic benefits for the entire state and the people that are gonna be employed by this.

So as any industry that it's starting, it needs help, but it's also starting in a really tricky timeline with inflation and supply chain issues.

- But, but, but here's the thing that is really confounding to me.

Governor Murphy and other governors who are engaged in wind energy initiatives, renewable energy initiatives, are moving to the, are sending a message to the Biden administration, "We need help.

we need more federal help."

- Mm-hm.

- Orsted is questioning, "Listen, we don't know what's gonna happen."

Orsted's one of the leading effort, leading corporations involved in wind energy, that they may not make it in this market without government support.

So if the market is so strong, if the economics make sense, then why need more federal government subsidies?

- Well, the market is definitely going to this direction, but the problem is how the bids were locked in and at the time that they were locked in, it wasn't foreseeing the inflation and the supply chain issues.

And so they need to have help in order to be able to employ and to create these contracts for all of the pieces, all of the manufacturing portions of it in order for them to construct.

I believe Orsted has come out and said that construction will continue.

- Right.

- But instead of being primarily starting like right now in fall, it's gonna be primarily in 2024 and slipping into 2025.

I do appreciate what Governor Murphy did with the letter with other Northeastern states asking the federal, you know, the Biden administration for help in many different ways.

I think we do need the help and this is not just Governor Murphy's initiative, right?

Offshore wind is a national initiative, one that the Biden administration is championing.

So I do believe that we do need more help from the federal government and I hope that President Biden hears this call for action and actually helps us because we definitely, Orsted cannot make it and we cannot bear the cost of this.

- Anjuli, I thank you for joining us.

It will not be the last time.

Anjula is the director of the New Jersey Sierra Club.

We'll continue the conversation, this ongoing issue.

Thank you so much.

We appreciate it.

- Thank you, Steve.

- Stay with us, we'll be right back.

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