From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today's environmental connection was made just last week when the Trump administration ordered a halt to Empire Wind one, a fully permitted offshore wind project off the coast of Long Island.

The interior secretary claimed the project had been rushed through by the Biden administration, but clean energy advocates say it's a dangerous, politically motivated move that threatens both jobs and emissions targets.

Empire wind one was expected to power more than a million homes.

And now, with its future uncertain, so is New York's entire offshore wind strategy, with us today to unpack the full story is an esteemed panel of experts joining us remotely.

We have Nathaniel Green, director of renewable energy policy at the National Resources Defense Council.

Nathaniel, welcome to Environmental Connections.

Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me, Jasmine.

Also joining us remotely is Julie Tai, president of the New York League of Conservation Voters.

Welcome to Environmental Connections, Julie.

Thanks for having me on.

And with me in the studio is Alicia Janney, our Tessa director of the New York Offshore Wind Alliance.

Hello, Alicia.

Hi, Jasmine.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you so much for being here.

Okay, Nathaniel, I want to start with you, because offshore wind has been central to New York's climate plan.

So can you help us understand what's been achieved so far and how projects like Empire Wind one fit into the larger vision?

Yeah, absolutely.

you know, here in New York, we've been trying to build our renewable energy supply for decades now.

And in just the last ten years or so, we've really made a huge commitment to offshore wind.

And it makes sense because we have a lot of people who live downstate near the water and, the power plants that we have down there are primarily old fossil fuel power plants that spew a lot of pollution right into very dense communities where people have to breathe that air all the time.

And so having a clean source of electricity that is right near those communities, just makes a ton of sense for us.

and so New York has made a series of commitments withhold withheld for auction so far.

And, we're in the middle of our fifth, to bring this offshore wind into our supply.

And it's not just important for the air quality.

It's also important for reliability, because, you know, we're growing community.

We've got a lot of business, development here.

and to keep the lights on, we need to be adding clean electricity to the mix.

and so that's, that's another reason that we're all really excited to have offshore wind as an option.

and it's also, a part of trying to keep prices affordable, because the, you know, the different options that we have are limited because, again, because of how dense the downstate population is, you can't just throw a power plant anywhere you want.

and so having, being able to take advantage of all of the, the wind blowing offshore, that can bring power in reliably and cleanly, it's the most affordable way we can really keep the lights on, keep the air clean, and, keep the power affordable.

Wow.

Well, there's a lot that we want to dig into, but let me check in with our in-studio guest, Alicia Janney.

Our Tessa Alicia, you're the director of the New York Offshore Wind Alliance.

So I'm hoping that you could shed light on this.

As I mentioned in the intro just last week, Jiang Yun Han from the New York Public News Network reported that the Trump administration ordered a halt to Empire Wind one, which was already under construction.

And it's the first project of its kind, and it's meant to connect to New York City's grid, as we were just talking about.

And that decision has cast serious doubt on the future of offshore wind in New York.

It's raised questions that Nathaniel just touched on, and and it's raised questions about what whether other proposed projects might be next.

So I know you said it's all you've been thinking about.

before we started recording.

That's what you said.

I can imagine.

How worried should we be about other projects facing the same fate.

Yeah.

Thank you.

That's a great question.

I think we're really in an inflection point with the industry, and we're waiting to see what's going to happen.

obviously.

Equinor's Abroad Energy company has $60 billion worth of investments in the United States, and that's everything from oil, gas and, renewable projects.

So for an environmental review to go under, you know, under an additional level of review is an interesting precedent for the administration to set, empire when one has undergone years of rigorous reviews, they have had over 450 meetings with federal agencies.

So the context there is a little confusing for us here on the ground.

But I think, you know, we're in a position where we can see what happens next.

We're waiting for, some sort of resolution to come out, but they're still doing the work at BMT that has 1500 union jobs currently working, and they've stopped work on the actual project offshore.

But we're able to still have some progress onshore.

So I think we're just, sort of in a holding pattern, unfortunately.

Alicia, are there any protections in place to keep political interference from derailing our progress on offshore wind?

And and if so, why did they fail here?

You know, we're we're still reviewing exactly the legality of, the stop work order.

And, you know, we have our national partners through American Clean Power Association that's doing a lot of that work, in DC on that level.

But it's sort of inherent to American policy, right?

Like when you go through the process here in America, you are able to rely on those permits to be, you know, used when your project is ready.

And interestingly, you know, I when I signed its federal lease for empire when with the Trump administration in 2017.

So we're we're seeing how this will unfold.

I'm not sure other industries are really paying attention yet, but this is a really dangerous precedent for the federal government to set.

Yeah.

all right.

approximately a thousand follow up questions, but let's turn to Julie.

Julie, you're the president of the New York League of Conservation Voters.

What's the political response in Albany been like so far?

Is it possible to move forward without Trump administration participation?

Unfortunately for offshore wind, the main permitting authority is actually the federal government, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management.

so they're always going to play a role because, the the wind turbines will be placed in federal waters.

And I think most people are not looking to have the wind turbines be within three miles of shore, which is where the state would have sole jurisdiction.

I do, however, think that, you know, Governor Hochul has been very firm and support of offshore wind and of the project that, you know, they're trying to to stop or they have stopped, at least temporarily, and supporting that.

And I think that we're going to see more broad support from others in, in the Albany sphere, you know, the New York state politicians who are who have been supportive.

it's unfortunate there have been some Long Island officials who are, really, you know, kowtowing to fossil interests and, local NIMBYism and, frankly, misinformation.

who have been, making some noise in the negative.

But by and large, this is an industry that has bipartisan support, on Long Island, which is where the turbines will all be, you know, constructed.

So it's really kind of disappointing and sad to see that we're taking something that should be nonpartisan and making it Partizan by this actions at the federal level.

we're certainly, hopeful that our New York Republican congressional delegation will continue to support clean energy tax credits and offshore wind, because that is really like New York's and in particular, Long Island and New York City's resource.

Right.

They don't have oil and gas down there.

so this is really the place, as Nathaniel talked about, where you can capture that energy, where we have the greatest burden on our, our demand, and plug it in in a way that's most efficient.

and that we know will help us for, for quite a long time.

fossil fuels are on a roller coaster ride.

You can't tell me next week what natural gas or oil is going to cost.

And just the United States doesn't have control over that.

that's really the, the purview, you know, of a global market.

And so when something happens, I'm an OPEC is mad.

when Russia makes it, it takes an action, when there's a storm, all of these factors impact into how much money we're paying for that energy.

Whereas we know because of the way our contracts are structured that for 25 years there's going to be the same rate to pay for offshore wind.

it's really providing stability that we need.

So, those are things that should be, you know, useful for politicians when they're thinking about what actions they should be taking.

But this should be nonpartisan.

I want to piggyback off that for a moment.

Nathaniel, in your recent article titled New York Must Double Down on Offshore Wind Leadership, you lay out how essential offshore wind is to hitting the state's climate targets.

So if projects like Empire Wind don't move forward, what does that mean for New York's 2030 and 2050 goals under the Climate Act?

And would you say we're at risk of missing those entirely, or is there a path to get us back on track?

I, I am inherently an optimist, and I believe, the Trump administration, too, shall pass.

And we, and offshore wind, you know, the benefits are just so significant in terms of the jobs, the, the the reliable oil, you know, fixed price of power as, we were just talking about, it's not going to go away.

it's a question of how soon are we going to get those benefits.

so I, you know, this is the Trump administration is without a doubt seeding chaos.

you know, in a lot of places, but certainly in the offshore wind, world, and it's going to delay the, ability of New York to achieve its climate goals.

but I think the key, and where New York really has a unique role to play on the national stage right now is providing a sort of safe haven, a sense of security that this industry, can hold on to until the Trump administration is gone and we can get back to, you know, to building our economy, to building, out this clean energy.

and so that's really, I think the key role New York needs to think about is how can we, send a signal to the industry that New York is open for business?

We're going to, we're going to stay committed.

We recognize the things, may slow down over the next few years, but we're going to be ready to come roaring back.

and the reality is, these projects take a long time.

you know, Empire Wind, unfortunately, was ready to start construction.

I think their plan was to start on May 1st.

So they were they're chomping at the bit, and hopefully they'll get this decision reversed and be able to get underway.

but there are a lot of other projects out there that could, be permitted.

There's leases already held.

So there's a lot of and it takes a while to do the studies, the planning.

So all that work could keep going.

Well, while we wait for the Trump administration to, to go away.

Well, I like your optimism.

Yes, please.

Julie, are you are you an optimist Julie.

All right.

Well it's not it's a I don't want to just rely on waiting until we get past this administration.

Right.

I think we have an opportunity right now, like the president has been talking about the need for more energy.

Right.

And we know that the economic, you know, economic development is driving that.

We're getting more and more need for for energy writ large.

Yes, because of the goals that we have, like electrification of buildings and transportation, but just plain because we need more energy to support economic development, such as chip fab.

That's going to be coming to Syracuse, right?

And to AI and data centers that are popping up all over the place to support our new economy.

And the idea that we're going to walk away from all this power that's available and I mean, in this case, fully permitted, at a time when he's declaring a quote unquote energy emergency and at the same time saying, we're going to make reviews for oil and gas exploration, and projects 14 days.

But but questioning whether or not an empire win, which we've had over 800 days of review, was sufficient.

to me, there's a cognitive dissonance here, right?

We need energy full stop.

This is a project that's going to provide 810MW of power.

That's 500,000 homes worth of energy.

I don't see how we delay that.

you know, more than this short term, you know, take a look at this, because this is something where we know we need more energy.

So if he's declared an emergency, it's already been fully permitted.

I think, you know, if this goes to court, it's going to fall favorably, for the for the company, and for the state.

But we really need to be focusing.

In fact, do we need more energy?

We all agree on that.

And this is a way that we can help get there.

Certainly, it would be much better if the Trump administration would embrace, offshore wind.

so I, I maybe I am going to be optimistic on that front.

Okay.

Because this is this is an American source of energy that can put you people to work helping to deliver on that promise.

So, Julie, let's talk about the broader picture for a moment.

Because offshore wind isn't just a climate issue.

It's tied to labor and economics and energy reliability.

So what makes these projects so politically and logistically complex?

I, I will leave the, the logistical complexity to Alicia.

I think as the, the engine industry representative, I think she's probably better suited to answer that.

Sure.

Alicia, can you untangle this?

Yeah.

Julie.

Go ahead.

But but but on the on the political side, I again, I think it depends on where you are.

I mean, we're seeing bipartisan support by and large, for offshore wind.

it is new to the United States.

So that's always a question.

I think people need more information.

We've been working together.

we're all part of an organization called Wind Works in New York that's working to help educate the public about, the facts related to offshore wind.

and I think that is really what we need to do.

There are others who are providing misinformation, and are spreading that.

And that is something that we need to dispel.

And that requires leadership.

And I think the state is is doing work on that and can can step up and do some more.

and certainly we have a number of politicians who have been stepping up as well.

I'm thinking about Congressman Andrew Guarino, from Suffolk County, who has certainly been supportive, and Suffolk County Executive Ed Romaine and Town of Brookhaven, Supervisor Dan Panigale, who have all been very supportive of offshore wind.

They realize the opportunities this provides for their communities to benefit from exactly what you said.

More reliable energy, right?

We and we we don't have to speculate anymore.

We have a project that's already operating and providing energy, to Long Island.

They're getting 70,000 homes are being powered by South Fork Wind, which is 132MW, which has been in, in in operation for over a year now.

And they've actually overperformed, but they were expected to deliver on, so it's really been a great, success that we're able to see that first commercial scale.

offshore wind project come to life in New York.

and making a difference in making our grid cleaner and more reliable.

I'm going to go to Alicia in a moment to untangle the logistically complex aspects of this, but we just got an email from Michael, and it's very tied to what you were just talking about.

Julie.

So I'm going to toss this question back to you.

Michael says, I'm asking this question because I really don't know anything about this as a sustainable source of energy.

Can you please give me an example of somewhere in the world where it's being used successfully?

Thanks.

Oh, in many places, the United States is way behind the times.

It's it's being used, widely in Europe, in particular in northern Europe, which is why some of the companies that are operating this are based in and, I know in the Netherlands and in Denmark, because they are successfully deploying that there, it's being used in the United Kingdom, it's being used in China.

it's being used quite widely.

The United States is really quite far behind the times.

And it has been used there for more than a decade.

So again, new to the United States, not new globally.

Okay.

and thanks for that question, Michael.

If you're listening to this and you're intrigued or confused, please reach out to us.

You can call us at 844295825 5 or 5 852639994.

You can also email us, as Michael did at connections at Zorg.

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That's another way you can reach us.

All right, Alicia, Julie kind of said that you're going to be able to help us all understand the the politically and logistically complex aspects because, as I mentioned, offshore wind is not just a climate issue.

It's tied into a lot of these other things like labor and economics and energy reliability.

Why is it so hard?

Well, it's a great question, and it's something that's been confusing me a lot for the past couple of weeks, because it is really difficult to build these projects.

There's an immense amount of review, environmental and economic, and that's why the stop work order makes no sense, because it's based on the under the guise that there was not enough review done to permit this project.

it's complex because it's a new industry and we need to do the requisite work.

The marine wildlife that is impacted by development offshore is important, and these ecosystems needed to be studied before these projects could go forward.

And interestingly, we found that there's no significant impact.

And honestly, the harshest impact on marine wildlife is climate change.

And so having, energy sources that do not emit carbon, and other greenhouse gases is more important than anything else that we can do right now to save these, these species.

So that's one part of it, I think, for the economic aspects, you know, everybody looks at new industry coming to America, especially with manufacturing coming back as impossible.

No one would have ever guessed that New York would have new manufacturing built.

To the extent that we actually have to bring new power back online, because in Syracuse, the chip factories coming, that was not an expectation that we had for our country.

Everything was always seen as going abroad, and it's great.

But having new industries like the offshore wind industry is why the manufacturing can come here, because there's investments for these projects that require, you know, us steel each turbine, it's thousand a thousand tons of steel for the turbine.

Things like that is where it gets complicated because you're seeing these projects that yes, it's being built like in New York on Long Island, but there's factories in South Carolina, there's ship making in Louisiana.

There's a whole ecosystem for the manufacturing supply chain that services industry.

And that's where it gets complicated.

And that's why I think the states have done a good job with the regional approach.

New York and New Jersey are having a supplier forum right now, and it's amazing to see that you can have these regional groups work together to build an industry in a time where it's not easy to build anything in this country.

So, Alicia, can you explain what role transmission lines and interconnection plays in offshore wind success?

Like, are there viable pathways to speed this up?

I think that there are.

I mean, we've learned a lot of lessons over the past probably ten years.

transmission under Empire Wind one and sunrise one was included in the process.

So that means that the offshore wind developers are building the transmission along with it.

Right now.

There's a separate process going on through the New York Independent System.

Operator, the nice so called the New York City Optn.

That process is going to build the transmission for New York City so that the offshore wind generators can connect to it.

By separating those two processes out, it should speed up timelines because you have things working in conjunction with each other, and it should also reduce prices for ratepayers because you're having these projects that are being built more efficiently.

And if they're working collaboratively, then at the end of the day it's done faster, which saves money.

so I think there is a path forward and I, you know, we've seen it on Long Island.

It's difficult to build.

But as Julie mentioned, with South Fork, we're they're they're exceeding expectations.

And it's really, inspiring to see that.

Well, before we get into the economic stakes and touched back in with with Nathaniel.

Alicia, I am wondering, I know that offshore wind isn't universally popular.

In fact, there has been public concern about potential risks to aquatic wildlife and birds.

So how real are those risks and what are developers doing to mitigate them?

Yeah, it's a great question.

and there is something I'd like to point out.

our parent organization, the Alliance for Clean Energy, did a poll this winter, and there's actually not as much opposition to offshore wind as it seems.

It's a very loud minority of people downstate that are opposed to it.

And it is the same old NIMBYism issues.

That's very well funded by, let's just say interested parties that are, opposed to offshore wind.

but we've seen the studies and, you know, I think it was a week or two ago that the government Accountability Office came out with their report that was, you know, requested by, Republican congressional members to do a review of offshore wind.

And they found that there is no impacts, through their own agency's work, through the studies on whales, like offshore wind development is not killing the whales.

And that's something that has been just blown out of proportion.

And they're not actually looking at the facts.

They're just fear mongering.

And it's very difficult to come back.

But thankfully, our developers are responsible.

And, you know, my coalition and I, o we are committed to the development of offshore wind in a responsible way.

That's why we partner with environmental organizations and other NGOs, because we're making sure that wildlife is protected and the research is done while development is occurring.

okay.

Good to know.

Thank you for clarifying.

I want to talk about the economic side.

So, Nathaniel, let's turn back to you.

There is a perception that offshore or wind is expensive.

So who's going to fit the foot the bill.

And what's the cost of not moving forward?

Yeah.

you know, it's because it's a new technology here in the United States.

there is a lot of learning that's going on.

And so, you know, when it first sort of came on the scene about a decade ago and there were some of the first auctions, I remember we were all blown away by how, low the cost came in.

We thought, oh my God, this is so much cheaper than we thought it was going to be.

And that was because we were assuming we could take a lot of the learnings from Europe and, and just apply them here and then, you know, like all technologies after Covid in the supply chain disruptions, world trade disruptions, you know, a lot of the costs have been going back up.

and we've seen a series of, of, contracts be canceled.

because the prices that they were set on weren't viable anymore.

so there, you know, it's everyone I think is looking at this market and saying, we don't really know where it's going to settle this thing that I would say that gets lost in a lot of this sort of, you know, confusion around the actual, you know, and uncertainty around the price, that offshore wind will be when it starts is two things.

One, Julien, at this point is whatever price it is, it's going to be a fixed price, for, at least 20 years.

And these these projects will almost certainly last longer than that.

two, these are the first projects.

So we're there is a learning curve here.

And we're going to get better and better at doing this.

So the prices are going to continue to come down.

And three we there's the you know, the price of power is only part of the picture, right?

We know we need power downstate.

We need reliable power downstate.

And we need power that is clean because so many people breathe the air downstate.

And when you try to put that bundle of services together and ask, how can we meet all these needs that we have, there just isn't an alternative, that you can point to and say, here's what else we should do.

that that would be remotely, cheaper than offshore wind, right?

I mean, maybe we could build solar projects or wind projects away upstate.

So then you got to build a lot more transmission to bring that down downstate.

We need to do some of that.

But, really offshore wind is sort of unique.

So that's why, you know, it it may seem, uncertain.

And with the prices going up a little bit like it seems, maybe, you know, people are worried that it could be expensive, but really, in the short run, provide that bundle of services that we need downstate.

It's the cheapest, the affordable option for us.

Julie has offshore wind delivered on job creation in New York.

And where do those benefits show up?

It has delivered on job creation.

Like we know, for example, that there's 1500 people who are working on the Empire project.

Now, Alicia mentioned this before at the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal.

They're helping to build the staging area and the place where the power will come to shore and go into a substation.

you know, for for Orsted, they've had more than 3 million union work hours already on their projects.

but translates into a lot of jobs.

More importantly, we have a huge supply chain.

Alicia sort of touched on this before, but there's over 900 organizations in this state alone that are participating in the supply chain, supporting offshore wind, including for some 40 and, congressional Congressman Joe Morelli, district, that are handling construction and manufactured projects, products and fabrication and things like that.

So they're really providing jobs throughout the state of New York and as well as around the country.

so, so to me, yes, they are delivering on that.

And the more robust and more mature the industry gets, the more jobs they're going to provide.

and again, those are union jobs that are providing good working wages for families to rely on.

So, you know, we've been working very closely with the labor unions, on this particular issue.

And they are they are part of our coalition of woodworks, New York.

Nathaniel, I want to turn to you here because your recent article talks about how canceling projects midstream hurts investor confidence.

So how big of a risk is that?

And and what does it mean for the clean energy sector at large?

Well, it's actually I think that probably the most significant impact of what the Trump administration has done so far, and the impacts go well beyond just clean energy, right?

If you're an investor in any type of project, especially a multi hundred million or billion dollar project like an offshore wind project, you need to know that there's a process to the projects and go through that.

There's going to be points at which you can decide whether or not you're going to make your investment.

And if you if it goes forward that you can the project can actually move forward.

If it gets permitted, you can get built and you can make a return.

And so the first impact that the Trump administration's assault on, you know, all these, on the offshore wind sector has been just to create confusion for investors and uncertainty.

but when you start doing things like issuing stop work orders to projects that are fully permitted, you know, without any legal basis for that, then that sends a chilling signal to all investors and all big projects, right?

Because whether, you know, people are not investing in oil and gas, but if you were an investor in oil and gas, you got to be scratching your head right now and thinking, well, what happens when a different administration comes in?

Are they going to be able to just yank permits away from oil and gas projects?

so, I think, you know, this is the part of the most reckless part of what the Trump administration has done so far.

Well, we're going to take a quick break.

I know we have some callers and folks who've emailed in.

We're going to get to you in just a moment.

When we come back, we're going to dig even deeper into New York State's role in all of this.

And what happens when federal support falters and whether Rochester and other regions are ready to step up.

So stay with us.

There's more environmental connections after this.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Join us next week on connections.

We've got reporters from the newsroom hosting conversations about their work.

We're going to talk about the upcoming film festivals, Rochester's food and beverage scene, Seneca Language and Environmental Connections is back on next Friday to cover climate and sustainability issues.

Right here in our region.

It's all coming up next week on connections.

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For more than 100 years, dedicated to creating a future where everyone's basic needs are met so all can thrive more at United Way Rock flex.org I'm Jasmine Singer and you're listening to Environmental Connections.

In this hour we're talking about offshore wind in New York.

Why it's central to the state's climate goals and what's at stake as federal rollbacks and rising costs and political pressure threaten to derail progress.

With me are Nathaniel Green from the NRDC, Julie Tai from the New York League of Conservation Voters, and Alicia Janay, artisan of the New York Offshore Wind Alliance.

I'm going to get to one of our callers in just a second, but I want to invite you, if you're listening to this, to call in as well, if you have any questions for my panel today, 844295825 5 or 5 852639994.

You can also email us at connections at WXXI morgue.

Or if you're watching us on YouTube, feel free to leave a comment.

We have Keith from Pittsburgh.

Keith, thanks so much for holding on the line there.

Welcome to Environmental Connections and what's your question?

Got it.

It's basically a two part question.

What will be the cost per kilowatt for production and what will be the cost per kilowatt to distribute it?

Okay.

Right now, and with our genie, you're all you have to do is dig down deep in your bill and you will see it.

Both of those cost changes daily, for our Genie customers.

distribution depends if there's a major storm.

Right.

cost per generating the electricity, at least for our genie, is is pretty stable.

It can have little fluctuations.

But what do they anticipate both of those to be?

Okay, well, that's a great question.

Thank you so much.

Alisha.

Do you want to take that?

Yeah.

I think, I believe that the price per kilowatt hour for Empire was $155.

I'm not positive, so I'd have to double check.

And I do not know the other, price tag, but for per megawatt hour, oh, per megawatt hour.

Okay.

Thanks, Nathaniel.

but one point that I think is really interesting is that on your utility bill, as you're talking about you, you know, 60% or more of the charges are coming from the utility.

It's actually the generation is, you know, a lot smaller of the amount that you're paying for on that bill.

And that's something that I think is confusing for people because you hear that, oh, renewables are costing so much money.

That's why my bill is going up.

Your bill is going up right now.

the new power isn't here yet.

So that's not, you know, the renewable problem.

I think that we need more energy in general and everything is going to cost more.

And it's because we have more, demand.

And when you look at the winter months, you know, we ended up having to import a lot of natural gas from New England and Canada this year because we had such a cold winter.

And those prices are always jacked up because it's supply and demand, and that's how our system works.

We have an email that I think is also probably best for you, Alicia from Mary Lou.

Mary Lou says, can you discuss possible offshore wind projects in Lake Ontario?

I can, you know, we focus on offshore wind projects in the Atlantic Ocean, but I, I did a little research before, so from my understanding, nicer to did a study in 2020 that, was finished in 2022.

And they found that there is not really a unique, need for the offshore wind industry to expand into the great Lakes just yet.

because of the ice and the cold weather, the deicing technology is really much more expensive.

for the output that would be generated now as technology advances.

hopefully that would change and that would be a more affordable process.

But it looks like as for right now, we won't see offshore wind in the Great Lakes anytime soon.

Alicia, I want to talk more about the political reality that we're facing right now.

How much does this all come down to?

Politics?

Like are these delays, the results of those logistical hiccups or something more ideological?

You know, it's interesting.

The Brown University climate lab has been doing a lot of research around where these opposition groups are coming from and why they're so adamantly opposed to the offshore wind industry.

And what we've seen is that a lot of their funding comes from these conservative groups that are funded by oil and gas.

So it isn't really, you know, it's kind of disheartening when a lot of the people that are out there rallying against offshore wind truly believe that the whales are being killed by the turbines, which is not true.

They really believe the Emfs cause cancer, and they're being manipulated by these fossil fuel interests.

And it's just really difficult to grapple with because it's not based in reality.

And it's an unfortunate situation.

yeah.

Definitely is.

Julie, what does nice start is stalled fifth round of offshore wind bids.

Tell us about the appetite to push forward.

I don't know that that's as much about the appetite of the state to push forward as it is.

The uncertainty that the Trump administration has brought, that that's creating some challenges right there, trying to understand, like what are the timeframes going to be for when permitting will be done?

know, we we're still grappling with supply chain challenges, which again, are not are not at all specific to to renewables or even energy.

Right.

That's been a global problem since the pandemic, of having that.

And there's a lot of demand in general.

So I, I don't believe that that reflects something that the state is, is, wary of moving forward of I think, on the contrary, I think they're figuring out like they know ultimately we're going to need more than even the nine gigawatts of energy that the the state law currently calls for us to have, because in order to reach our, our ultimate goals, under the climate Act, they, they've expected in their climate scoping plan that we're going to need upwards of 16GW of offshore wind.

So certainly there's a lot more need that's out there.

and I think that the state is is committed to that.

and they're trying to address some of these challenges.

I do think there are there should not be this conflict between, you know, Republicans and Democrats.

These are not Republican and Democrat issues.

These are pocketbook issues.

There's talking about providing energy for people in our country, and we need more of it.

So I said this before, but full stop.

We just need more energy.

and it would be foolish, if that is the case, if the, if we need so much energy that there's an energy emergency as has been declared, which I am skeptical of, but that you would turn away from this great source of energy, of energy that can deliver on everything that we need.

Right?

It can deliver the the energy that we need.

It can deliver the jobs that we need.

It can create this new industry that requires manufacturing, which our stated goals of of the, you know, Republicans who are running Washington, DC right now, that you would turn away from this particular industry, which is not at all limited to the to no to the coasts as far as what the economic benefits are associated with that.

so, so we need to we need to start shifting away and reminding people and mobilizing people that this is not okay to be, you know, attacking this as a Partizan issue, when really it should not be.

Well, related to that, Julie Trump has called New York's Climate Super Fund Act and extortion law.

So how are state lawmakers responding to this growing federal hostility toward climate action?

Look, I think that the state, you know, has the governor certainly indicated that she's standing firm and protecting our laws, and then the attorney general is right behind her.

so we know that we have leaders in that space who are making sure that we are, protecting the laws that we have.

They were clearly, you know, adopted justly.

We're seeing that in particular with congestion pricing, for example, where the Trump administration is also has already sued and is trying to claw that program back, even though it's delivering for for New York City in the metropolitan region, by reducing traffic, by investing in transit, by helping with air quality and safety on our streets.

And and we even saw.

Right.

they they fortunately or unfortunately, depending on on your view of this, they advertised yesterday their strategy and the fact that they know that their legal basis is lacking, for why they're going after this thing as they published.

they, they accident they posted a memo that was, identifying the weaknesses in the litigation that they brought.

So and certainly the governor and the attorney general have been standing firm that this is a program that's going to stay in effect.

we have more actions we need to take.

There are a lot of things that we can do.

I know without the federal government, it's obviously a lot easier if everyone's moving in the same direction.

And some of the things that they're proposing to do don't make any sense.

Right?

It's like they're talking about rolling back, you know, the, the Energy Star standards for appliances, like, who wants to be wasting energy on your refrigerator?

It doesn't make any sense.

You want to have the most efficient energy.

And then when we have we need more energy for dealing with demand because we're having economic development.

why are we going to waste it on like, a refrigerator that isn't as efficient as it could be?

That's bad for consumers.

So some of their things, just some of these actions don't make any sense.

if you care about the people, do your eyeball muscles hurt from the amount of times you have to roll your eyes each day?

That's my question, Nathaniel.

Turning back to you.

Bottom line, if offshore wind collapses in New York, what are the consequences?

Not just for emissions, but for public trust in the clean energy transition?

Well, I first want to say I really don't think it's going to collapse.

I think it's going to slow down.

but, yeah, I mean, even the slow down again, I think, does, you know, hurts our sense, people's sense of confidence that we can make progress on this.

and it's, you know, providing clean, reliable electricity, is not just important for, you know, for bringing clean power into the city.

We there's all these new uses.

We've been talking about the growth of electric demand.

It's, you know, that's not just for data centers and AI and whatnot.

We want to electrify vehicles.

We want to electrify buildings.

All of that is important if we're going to ultimately have really a stable, climate, for our children.

And so, you know, it's an economic hit.

It's, an environmental hit.

it's jobs.

There's a lot of downside here.

But again, you know, it's and this is where I think New York's leaders really, you know, need to and have been stepping up and need to really keep their, their, their shoulder to the wheel here.

we're going to ride through this and it's going to have costs, but we're going to get to the other side.

And in the meantime, there are things we need to do.

We need to keep building out the ports.

when you do keep building out the transmission, we need to, you know, as we figure out how to deal with the permitting delays.

we need to keep doing the auctions so that we have the projects under contract and can build them out as soon as, you know, as soon as the federal government gets out of the way.

Nathaniel, I'm hearing that you're an optimist, and I appreciate that about you so much.

What gives you hope right now?

Well, you know, I mean, I we work really closely with the with the unions, and these folks are out there.

They want these jobs.

These are people that live in these communities.

They want a paycheck to come home and pay for their home and help their kids go to school and all that.

So, you know, from that level, all the way up to, you know, the eggheads like myself that worry about economics and, and policy, you know, this makes so much sense to do this stuff.

It's, you know, it's economically better.

It's environmentally better.

it builds our communities.

So, you know, we didn't end our use, stones because we ran out of stones.

We're not going to end the use of oil and gas because we run out of that stuff.

We're going to do it because we have something better.

And we got that stuff now it's in our hands.

And offshore wind is absolutely part of that.

I appreciate that.

I think it's really easy these days to get real down, you know, with the with the headlines, especially for those of us who care about the climate, which certainly if you're listening to this, my guess is that you do as well.

Julie, what can citizens do today to make sure that this doesn't fall apart?

There's a few things that people can do.

One is, if you're interested in learning more information and and getting information on on a regular basis, you can go to Wind Works New york.org, and you can sign up and you'll get information about what's happening in in the wind space.

two is you can tell your, you know, you can go to your member of Congress.

Joe Morelli.

And for many people in your, your listeners areas, and say, please help push back.

We need to have clean energy as part of the solution, because one of the things that's happening is Washington, DC, in order to pay for, tax credits for very, very rich people, they are looking at how to save money.

And one thing that's potentially at risk is clean energy tax credits that are supporting this burgeoning industry.

and that's something that we need to protect.

So we need to tell our members of Congress, we need to get offshore wind projects back on track and stop the nonsensical, you know, stop work order and we need to protect those credits because they're helping us get this new, vibrant industry, you know, going and providing us energy that's going to reduce pollution.

that's causing us to have public health impacts.

You know, asthma is the number one cause for school absenteeism.

And not only does it cause damage to a person in the individual, they're going to miss school.

They're they're missing out on that.

The parents are going to miss work.

Then you have to go to the hospital or the emergency room or the urgent care or the doctor.

And so you're spending money on the health care, that you could be spending on other things for your family.

So these are things that are going to all the.

Com if we're having clean energy as our sources.

So that's really like something that we need to do is tell our members of Congress and our state legislators, you know, in the Assembly, in the Senate, that you support this and you want to see these things move forward.

And I assume that a lot of this comes down to public pressure.

If Albany sees people care, can it actually sway decision making on this?

I, I'm addressing this to you, Julie, but really, this is for the folks who tell me day in and day out that they're starting to feel helpless.

Can you address this first of all, every politician listens to their constituents, right?

They want to hear from them.

That's why organizations like New York League of Conservation Voters, we have, you know, a page that you can take action and you can tell people, for example, we have a petition to say, I support offshore wind.

you know, we've had over 5600 people have signed on to that so far.

and we know that people care about this.

I think we often feel that, like people who are opposed to something are more likely to come out and say that, and we heard that before from Alicia about the results of their polling.

We need people to come out and say, yes, I'm for this.

Right?

We can't just sit on our on our hands and let it happen.

you know, most people want to know that when they turn on the flip, the switch, the lights are coming on.

This is the kind of energy we need to help make sure that that continues to happen.

and we need to make sure that that's moving forward.

And politicians listen to their constituents.

We have control.

We are a democracy.

despite how some people may be behaving, and we need to make sure that people are exercising those rights and using their voices, and whether that's going to Albany to have meetings with their their elected officials or in the district, whether that means they're writing a letter or making a phone call or sending an email, whether that means you're going to, you know, participate in, you know, a public rally, or to, like, the town board.

So if there's, a project coming up, a town town board and say it's for solar.

I know we've been talking about offshore wind, but what you don't have in in Monroe County.

but if it's for solar, you come out and say, yes, I'm for this because only people who mostly people come out who just say they're against it.

So helping to to get engaged is really how politicians respond, right?

If lots of people are telling them something, they respond, that's very hopeful and emboldening and I appreciate that about you.

Alicia.

Complete the sentence.

Offshore wind in New York will succeed if.

If our state government, through Nyserda and the governor's office, continue on the path that they are on in supporting this industry, which is, you know, is where they've been, and I'm hopeful that they'll continue on this path.

Are you hopeful I am the governor has been really strong.

Her statement when the stop work order came out via Twitter last week was really strong.

She came out and said she wants offshore wind and she will fight for it.

you really there's no reading between the lines on that statement.

well, I think that that is a a strong and hopeful place for us to end environmental connections today.

I want to thank Nathaniel Green and Julie Tai and Alicia Janney, our Tessa, for joining me today.

Between legal threats and political pushback and ecological concerns and economic unknowns, offshore wind in New York is clearly at a crossroads.

But as our guests said today, it's also a test.

Can the state lead when the federal government won't?

And can we hold the line on climate progress when everything's on the line?

So thank you.

If you're listening to this for tuning in to Environmental Connections, which is the last Friday of every month, we give Evan a break from connections and we sort of take over and just talk about the climate issues that are affecting each of us, the climate issues that are affecting Rochester and New Yorkers as Americans, Earthlings from WXXI news, I'm Jasmine Singer, thanks for making today's environmental connection.

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