>>> THE ABORTION ISSUE TAKES ITS FIRST STEP TOWARD THE BALLOT.

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>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

OHIO VOTERS MAY GET THE CHANCE TO DECIDE THE ABORTION ISSUE.

ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTERS THIS WEEK TOOK THE FIRST STEP IN THE LONG AND DIFFICULT PROCESS OF TRYING TO CHANGE THE OHIO CONSTITUTION.

THEY SUBMITTED A SUMMARY AND FULL TEXT OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT.

IT WOULD GUARANTEE AN INDIVIDUAL A RIGHT TO AN ABORTION IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION ALONG WITH OTHER REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ISSUES.

THE AMENDMENT WOULD ALLOW THE STATE TO REGULATE, THAT IS, BAN, ABORTION AFTER THE POINT OF FETAL VIABILITY.

THAT'S THE STANDARD THAT STOOD AS PART OF THE ROE DECISION.

IT'S GENERALLY CONSIDERED 22 TO 24 WEEKS INTO A PREGNANCY.

THE AMENDMENT WOULD ALSO ALLOW FOR ABORTIONS LATER IN A PREGNANCY TO HELP THE LIFE OR HEALTH OF THE WOMAN.

ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS PROMISED A TOUGH FIGHT.

THEY CLAIM THE AMENDMENT IS VAGUE AND COULD LEAD TO ABORTIONS AS LATE AS THE NINTH MONTH OF PREGNANCY ALTHOUGH AS STATISTICS SHOW, THAT RARELY HAPPENS.

LESS THAN 1% OF ABORTIONS IN OHIO OCCUR AFTER 21 WEEKS OF PREGNANCY.

THE BIG QUESTION WAS, WE KNEW THIS WAS COMING, BUT AT WHAT POINT WOULD THE STATE BE ALLOWED TO BAN ABORTION?

THEY HAVE CHOSEN VIABILITY.

DO YOU KNOW HOW THEY GOT TO THAT POINT?

>> THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO GO WITH A MORE MEDICAL VERSION.

VIABILITY IS NOT ONLY THE ROE CONSTITUTIONAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY PRIOR TO THE SUPREME COURT'S DECISION.

BUT ALSO IT'S NOT A CLEAR LINE IN THE SAND LIKE YOU SAID, RIGHT?

IT'S NOT SUDDENLY AT 21 WEEKS AND 5 DAYS, YOU'RE NOT VIABLE, AND THEN AT 22 WEEKS, YOU ARE.

IT DEPENDS ON THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER, ON THE HEALTH OF THE BABY.

THEY SAID BY PUTTING THIS SQUARELY WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF A DOCTOR AND A PATIENT, THEY FELT THAT WAS THE BEST WAY TO LEAVE IT.

>> YOU'VE SEEN A LOT OF THESE AMENDMENTS COME AND GO.

SOME SUCCEED, SOME DON'T.

HOW DO YOU LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE OF THIS ONE?

IS IT CLEAR?

IT SEEMS TO ME IT'S FAIRLY CLEAR.

IT'S NOT LONG.

IT'S STRAIGHTFORWARD.

>> IT'S CLEAR ENOUGH, AND THE PROPONENTS CAN MAKE A VERY LEGITIMATE CASE, WHICH MEANS, THEN, THE OPPONENTS WILL HAVE TO, IN FACT, LIE.

THEY WILL HAVE TO EXAGGERATE.

THEY WILL HAVE TO BE TALKING ABOUT, OH, MY GOD, THERE'S GOING TO BE A FLOOD OF ABORTIONS IN THE NINTH MONTH OR WHATEVER, WHICH IS NOT TRUE.

IT HASN'T BEEN TRUE, AND IT WON'T BE TRUE UNDER THIS AMENDMENT.

THEY'LL ALSO BE TALKING ABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE BEING FORCED TO HAVE ABORTIONS.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A SET OF HORROR STORIES IN PART BECAUSE THIS AMENDMENT IS ACTUALLY A VERY REASONABLE AMENDMENT IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S PROPOSING, AND IT REPRESENTS WHAT USED TO BE THE CASE IN OHIO PRE-ROE V. WADE BEING REPEALED.

>> SO THERE'S NOT A 21 WEEK, 5 DAY STANDARD.

THERE IS SOME VAGUENESS IN IT BECAUSE IT'S MEDICAL.

SHOULD THEY BE MORE CLEAR?

SHOULD IT BE 15 WEEKS?

SHOULD IT BE 12 WEEKS?

SHOULD IT BE COMPLETE BAN?

>> I THINK WE NEED SOME CLEAR GUIDANCE AND STANDARDS.

IT SHOULDN'T BE VAGUE.

JUST BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY WRITTEN, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING MISSING TODAY OUT OF THAT BALLOT AMENDMENT IS THERE'S NO PARENTAL RIGHTS.

SO THAT'S NOT A LIE.

IT'S JUST A FACT.

THE FACT THAT WE HAVE AN UNCONSCIONABLE AMENDMENT OUT THERE THAT DOESN'T SPECIFY NOT ONLY WEEKS, WHICH WE CAN HAVE THAT DEBATE.

BUT THE BIGGEST DEBATE RIGHT NOW IS WHAT DO WE DO WITH OUR KIDS THAT ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH ABORTIONS?

PARENTAL RIGHTS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

AND THEN THE SECOND PART OF THIS IS WE'RE ACTUALLY DIMINISHING WOMEN BY ALLOWING FOR THIS TYPE OF ABORTION TO OCCUR IN OUR STATE AND THIS AMENDMENT TO GO THROUGH BECAUSE NOW WOMEN DON'T HAVE GUARDRAILS THAT PROTECT US IN TERMS OF ABORTIONS.

NOW WE DON'T HAVE CERTAIN RIGHTS AND STEPS THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS PROPER CONSENT, THAT WE ARE GOING AND HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR DOCTOR.

IT'S ESSENTIALLY ALLOWING, WITHOUT GUARDRAILS, FULL-TERM ABORTIONS BECAUSE WHETHER IT'S 1% OR NOT, 1% IS ENOUGH FOR US TO SAY IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.

BUT ON TOP OF THAT, WE'RE ALSO THREATENING OUR CHILDREN THROUGH THIS BECAUSE -- >> ADVOCATES OF THIS SAY THIS DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE LEGISLATURE FROM PASSING OTHER LAWS, FOR INSTANCE A 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD LAW OR A -- >> PARENTAL CONSENT.

>> OR OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH ARE ON THE BOOKS NOW.

>> SO WE SHOULD ALLOW THE LEGISLATURE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS.

WHY -- >> THEY SAY THIS DOES.

THIS WILL ALLOW THE LEGISLATURE TO -- >> WELL, IT'S EXTREMELY BROAD RIGHT NOW.

IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT INFORMED CONSENT.

IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT PARENTAL RIGHTS.

IT ACTUALLY OPENS UP A HUGE ISSUE IN OUR STATE TO ALLOW ABORTIONS TO OCCUR AT ANY STAGE.

AND IF THE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO DECIDE THIS, THEN LET'S GO BACK TO THE HEART BEAT BILL INSTEAD OF ALLOWING THIS UNCONSCIONABLE AMENDMENT TO EXIST IN OUR LAW TODAY.

IT'S EXTREME.

>> I JUST READ IT BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED, AND I THINK THAT AS YOU SAY, IT'S PRETTY -- IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT IT STATES OUTRIGHT AT VIABILITY, THE STATE MAY BAN ABORTION.

VIABILITY IS NOT NINE MONTHS IN MOST CASES, IT'S SOMEWHERE AROUND 22.

ONE OF THE THINGS THEY SAID IN THE NEWS CONFERENCE WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, IN SOME CASES WE KNOW THAT A FETUS IS UNVIABLE MUCH, MUCH EARLIER BECAUSE OF ANOMALIES OR YOU MAY NOT LEARN IN A PREGNANCY WHEN, SAY, YOU FIND OUT ABOUT ITS ORGAN STRUCTURE AND SO FORTH.

SO I THINK THAT IT WILL BE VERY EXPENSIVE, SOMEWHERE IN THE RANGE OF MILLIONS, TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO RUN THIS, AND WE'RE GOING TO HEAR IT ALL.

>> WHY 2023?

IS IT BECAUSE OF THE THREAT OF A POSSIBLE RAISING THE BAR FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS TO 60%?

>> YES.

NO, THEY SAID -- THE ADVOCATES SAID THAT THEY LOOKED AT IT, AND THEY GOT THE QUESTION DIRECTLY.

AND THEY SAID THAT, YEAH, IF WE RAISE THE BAR TO 60%, WHICH IS ONE CONSIDERATION THAT WE HAVE, THAT ALL FUTURE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS WOULD HAVE TO GET 60% OF THE VOTE TO PASS.

THAT WOULD MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT, LIKE, MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN PASSED SOMETHING NEARLY IDENTICAL TO WHAT'S BEEN INTRODUCED IN OHIO.

AND I BELIEVE IT WAS 56 -- ALMOST 57% OF THE VOTE IS WHAT THEY PASSED IN MICHIGAN.

SO IT WAS AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, BUT IT WAS NOT A 60% MAJORITY.

>> A LOT OF GRASSROOTS CAMPAIGNS, THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN AN ODD-YEAR ELECTION WHERE TURNOUT IS LOWER.

DOES THAT GIVE THEM AN ADVANTAGE?

>> PARTLY.

THIS WILL BE AN ISSUE THAT WILL BE SO SALIENT TO VERY DISTINCT GROUPS OF OHIOANS THAT I DON'T THINK THERE'S A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN THE PROS AND CONS OR WHATEVER.

AGAIN, WHO FRAMES THE ISSUE FIRST IS GOING TO ACTUALLY BE MORE SUCCESSFUL.

I REALLY DO DISAGREE WITH YOUR CHARACTERIZATION.

I AGREE WITH THE WAY YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT, THAT IT ACTUALLY GIVES THE LEGISLATURE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE INPUT ON THIS.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE A LARGE NUMBER OF POST-22-WEEK ABORTIONS.

WE DON'T SEE THAT TODAY.

IT SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING REASONABLE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF OHIOANS, IF THAT'S THE WAY THEY HEAR IT, WILL BE SUPPORTIVE.

BUT IF THEY HEAR THIS IS THE MURDER OF BABIES, YOU KNOW, AND THAT SORT OF THING, THAT WILL -- BUT TO DO THAT, YOU'VE GOT TO RUN A PRETTY VICIOUS CAMPAIGN.

>> THERE IS A TINY AMOUNT OF BABIES THAT ARE ABORTED, FETUSES ABORTED AFTER 21 WEEKS, WHICH IS REALLY EVEN BEFORE THE POINT OF VIABILITY IN SOME CASES.

WHY NOT JUST RAIN A CAMPAIGN TO SAY HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION AND THAT ANY ABORTION AFTER THAT POINT IS IMMORAL AND IS MURDER?

WHY NOT JUST BE VERY CLEAR WITH THAT?

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BRING IN THESE SORT OF OUTLYING, FUZZY ISSUES THAT REALLY ARE NOT BACKED BY STATISTICS?

>> SO I'M NOT FOLLOWING YOUR QUESTION.

>> WHEN YOU SAY BABIES ARE GOING TO BE ABORTED IN THE EIGHTH OR NINTH MONTH, THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, VERY RARELY, AND IF IT DOES, IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CASES BECAUSE THE MOTHER'S HEALTH IS IN DANGER.

>> THAT'S USUALLY NOT THE ARGUMENT THAT THESE GROUPS ARE MAKING THAT ARE AGAINST THIS BALLOT INITIATIVE.

>> SO THERE MAY BE SOME STATISTICS OUT THERE.

EVERYBODY DOES THIS, RIGHT?

YOU LOOK AT THE OUTLIERS AND SAY THIS IS THE CASE, AND THIS IS WHY.

I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS HOLISTICALLY.

IF WE WANT TO MAKE THIS AN OHIO ISSUE, THEN LET'S GO TO THE LEGISLATURE.

WE DON'T WANT THESE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS COMING IN, POURING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND CONFUSING INDIVIDUALS.

AND THEY ARE OUTSIDE GROUPS THAT ARE COMING IN.

>> THESE ARE OHIO GROUPS.

THEY'RE HIRING PEOPLE FROM OUT OF STATE, BUT THESE -- >> IT'S OUTSIDE GROUPS THAT ARE COMING AND ESSENTIALLY OPENING UP THE DOOR FOR ABORTIONS.

AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO SAY VIABILITY, THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT VIABILITY AND LET'S SET THIS BACK TO THE HEARTBEAT BILL STANDARD, RIGHT?

I THINK WE WERE DOING WELL WHEN GOVERNOR KASICH SIGNED THAT BILL, AND I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE OPENING UP THESE STANDARDS FURTHER AND FURTHER.

THANK YOU.

GOVERNOR DeWINE.

SO WHY CONTINUE TO PUSH THIS, PUT IT ON A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, AND THEN CONTINUE TO ERODE SOME OF OUR VALUES IN OHIO, WHICH TRULY IS PROTECTING KIDS, PARENTAL RIGHTS, AND MAKING SURE THAT IF WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE IN OUR STATEHOUSE, LET THE LEGISLATURE DECIDE.

>> WE'RE GOING TO DECIDE, IF IT GETS ON THE BALLOT, OVER THE NEXT EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS OR SO.

MUCH MORE TO TALK WHEN THIS.

>>> FOR OUR NEXT TOPIC, WE KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE MINUTES BEFORE A TRAIN DERAILED IN EASTERN OHIO, SENDING TOXIC CHEMICALS ONTO THE GROUND AND INTO THE AIR.

THE NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD SAYS A SENSOR NOTIFIED THE CREW A BEARING OVERHEATED.

THE CREW WAS TRYING TO STOP THE TRAIN JUST BEFORE IT DERAILED.

THE TRAIN PASSED TWO OTHER SENSORS EARLIER IN ITS TRIP BUT THE BEARINGS WERE NOT HOT ENOUGH TO SET OFF THE WARNING SYSTEM.

>> THE WARNING THRESHOLD IS SET BY RAILROADS, AND IT VARIES BY RAILROAD.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THAT AND SEE IF THAT THRESHOLD SHOULD CHANGE.

>> I WILL TELL YOU THAT HAD THERE BEEN A DETECTOR EARLIER, IT WOULD NOT HAVE -- THAT DERAILMENT MAY NOT HAVE OCCURRED.

BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.

>> FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP VISITED THE SITE THIS WEEK AND BLAMED PRESIDENT BIDEN.

TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY PETE BUTTIGIEG VISITED THE SITE ON THURSDAY.

HE BLAMED THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR DEREGULATING RAILROADS.

A LOT OF ANGER OUT THERE, A LOT OF FINGER POINTING, A LOT OF STATEMENTS SAYING WE'RE GOING TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

SIX MONTHS FROM NOW WHEN THIS STORY HAS FADED, WHAT WILL TRAIN REGULATION LOOK LIKE?

>> PRESUMABLY IT WILL BE A LITTLE STRONGER THAN IT IS TODAY, IN PART BECAUSE LAST YEAR -- WELL, A COUPLE YEARS AGO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, OF COURSE, DID WEAKEN REGULATION.

AND, AGAIN, NOBODY CAN PROVE THAT HAD THEY NOT WEAKENED THOSE REGULATIONS, THAT THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT I THINK THE ISSUE IS ON THE AGENDA, AND IT WILL STAY ON THE AGENDA.

AND ENOUGH PEOPLE, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, ARE COMMITTED NOW TO MAKING SURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

IT IS AMAZING, THOUGH, TO ACTUALLY HAVE DONALD TRUMP COME TO OHIO WITH THE TRACK RECORD THAT HE HAS ON REGULATION, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND START BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE WHEN HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION DID MORE TO UNDERMINE THE EPA IN GENERAL AND UNDERMINE THESE REGULATIONS.

BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS IS THAT THIS IS THE PART OF THE STATE AND PART OF THE COUNTRY THAT ARE OFTENTIMES THE FORGOTTEN PARTS.

AND TRUMP CAN COME THERE AND SAY, I KNOW YOU.

I SUPPORT YOU.

BUT HE HASN'T SUPPORTED -- >> JOE BIDEN HAS NOT BEEN THERE.

HE WAS OVERSEAS FOR PART OF THIS TIME, BUT HE'S FACING CRITICISM FOR GOING TO UKRAINE AND NOT TO EAST PALESTINE.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

IT'S VERY INTRIGUING THAT THIS HAS BECOME THIS NATIONAL POLITICAL HOT POTATO ALL OF A SUDDEN.

I WAS JUST TAKING A LOOK BACK BECAUSE THIS IS THAT AREA THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS FIGHT OVER GETTING VOTES OUT THERE AND REACHING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THESE RURAL AREAS.

SO I THINK THAT MAKES A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SENSE TO GO OUT THERE.

>> IS THAT WHY IT'S GETTING SO MUCH -- IT'S REFRESHING IN A WAY THAT HERE IS THIS PLACE OUT OF THE WAY, NOT NEAR A MAJOR CITY, THAT'S GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION.

IT'S BEEN IN THE NEWS NOW FOR THREE WEEKS.

>> YEAH, AND I ALSO -- I MEAN IN TERMS OF THE BLAME GAME, I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY VICTORY HAS A THOUSAND MOTHERS BUT DEFEAT IS AN ORPHAN.

EVERYONE WANTS TO POINT THE FINGER AT SOMEONE ELSE.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT IN A COUPLE WEEKS PERHAPS WE WILL HAVE MOVED ON FROM THIS.

BUT ONE THING WE'RE HEARING FROM EXPERTS IS THOSE CHEMICALS THAT FLOATED IN THE AIR DURING THE CONTROLLED BURN AND LANDED ALL ACROSS EAST PALESTINE AND SOME OF THE AREAS OUTSIDE THE TOWN, THEY CAN SLOWLY SEEP INTO THE GROUNDWATER OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR, MAYBE EVEN TWO YEARS.

AND WE MAINTAIN THAT ONGOING MONITORING OF THEIR WATER SYSTEMS BECAUSE IT COULD BE CLEAN TODAY BUT NOT IN SIX MONTHS.

>> NORFOLK SOUTHERN SEEMS TO BE GETTING THE BULK OF THE FIRE.

THEY'RE BEING CRITICIZED.

FOR ONE, THEY'VE GOT THE TRAIN TRACKS UP AND RUNNING FIRST.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN CLEAN UP THE EARTH UNDERNEATH IT.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A DECK ON YOUR HOUSE, YOU'VE GOT TO GET FIVE PERMITS.

HOW ARE THEY ABLE TO PUT THEIR TRAIN TRACKS BACK OVER CONTAMINATED SOIL?

>> I THINK THE WHOLE SITUATION IS SHOCKING AND POLITICIANS ARE DOING WHAT THEY DO BEST, WHICH IS THE BLAME GAME.

I'VE REACHED OUT TO LOCAL CHURCHES THERE AND RESIDENTS TO SAY, WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP, AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP YOU GET OUT OF THIS SITUATION IN THE NEXT WEEK AND THEN THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS?

ANNA'S RIGHT.

WE DON'T KNOW THE HEALTH REPERCUSSIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN FRONT OF US TODAY.

JUST BECAUSE THE WATER IS TESTING CLEAR TODAY, IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE DIOXINS.

ARE THEY TESTING FOR VINYL CHLORIDE?

WHAT OTHER TOXINS ARE IN THE WATER, AND DO WE REALLY HAVE CLARITY ON THAT?

I THINK THAT NORFOLK CAN GET OUT THERE AND GET THEIR TRAIN SITUATION SETTLED SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO MAKE MONEY IS JUST DESPICABLE.

THEY'VE ALSO BEEN OUT CONTACTING RESIDENTS TO SIGN WAIVER AGREEMENTS TO SAY, WE'LL TEST YOUR WATER, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO BE SUED.

THAT WILL NEVER HOLD UP IN COURT.

I TRULY THINK THAT RESIDENTS NEED TO BE CAREFUL, AND I ALSO WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHO'S DOING THE TESTING.

IT NEEDS TO BE AN INDEPENDENT THIRD LAB NOT PAID BY THE STATE OF OHIO, STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA, OR NORFOLK SOUTHERN.

IT NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT, AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TESTING FOR YEARS TO COME BECAUSE I AM TERRIFIED FOR THOSE CHILDREN AND THOSE FAMILIES TODAY.

WE DON'T KNOW THE HEALTH REPERCUSSIONS.

>> WE'RE LEARNING ABOUT HOW TRAIN TRAFFIC MOVES AROUND THE STATE.

WE'RE ALSO LEARNING ABOUT THE INSIDE GAME OF POLITICS IN THE LARRY HOUSEHOLDER BRIBERY AND RACKETEERING TRIAL.

JURORS THIS WEEK FOLLOWED THE MONEY.

THE FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER'S TOP AIDE DETAILED HOW MUCH OF THE $61 MILLION FLOWED FROM FIRST ENERGY INTO A POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE AND EVENTUALLY INTO HOUSEHOLDER'S EFFORT TO WIN THE SPEAKER'S JOB, THEN PASS AND DEFEND THE BILLION DOLLAR NUCLEAR PLANT BAILOUT.

LONG STRETH HAS PLEADED GUILTY AND HAS COOPERATED WITH PROSECUTORS.

HE SAID ABOUT A HALF MILLION DOLLARS OF THAT MONEY WENT TO HOUSEHOLDER'S PERSONAL ACCOUNTS.

HOUSEHOLDER AND GOP LOBBYIST MATT BORGES DENY THE CHARGES.

THEY ALWAYS SAY FOLLOW THE MONEY, AND THE MONEY GUY WAS ON THE STAND THIS WEEK.

DOES HE CONVINCE THE JURORS THIS WAS MORE THAN JUST HARDBALL POLITICS, DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK HE DOES.

I'VE BEEN LOOKING AND FOLLOWING TESTIMONY.

JEFF LONG STRETH HAS PLEADED GUILTY.

HE IS THE GLUE THAT IS GOING TO EXPLAIN AND UNRAVEL THE ENTIRE CASE BETWEEN THE TEXT MESSAGES, CONVERSATIONS WITH FIRST ENERGY CEO JONES, CONVERSATIONS WITH LARRY HOUSEHOLDER.

NOW YOU HAVE SO MANY OTHERS TAKING THE STAND, EXPLAINING THIS IS THE KIND OF PRESSURE I WAS UNDER TO SAY YES TO HOUSE BILL 6.

LET'S NOT FORGET THE CANDIDATES THAT LARRY WAS RECRUITING.

I RAN DURING THAT CYCLE, AND I REMEMBER A VERY TOP CONSULTANT AIDE OF HIM SAYING, WE WILL NOT CONSIDER YOU TO BE ONE OF OUR CANDIDATES BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A YES PERSON.

LARRY WAS LOOKING FOR PUPPETS TO SAY YES TO EVERYTHING HE WAS PUSHING IN HIS CAUCUS.

AND SO NOW WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS JEFF LONGSTRETH HAS SHOWED YOU EXACTLY WHERE THE MONEY WENT, DETAILING THAT, AND THE FBI AND THE PROSECUTION HAVE A VERY STRONG CASE.

THIS WAS PAY TO PLAY.

I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY CORRUPT, AND AT SOME POINT THESE TWO ARE GOING TO GO TO JAIL.

IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME.

>> ISN'T IT THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED.

YOU SUPPORT MY BILL, OR I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT YOURS, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHAT REPRESENTATIVE GREENSPAN IS ALLEGING HERE.

>> YEAH, BUT I THINK HE'S TRYING TO SAY THIS IS BEYOND THE PALE, RIGHT?

I THINK THERE DEFINITELY IS SOME OF THAT.

POLITICIANS HAVE BIG PERSONALITIES AND SOMETIMES THEY CLASH.

WE CAN SEE THAT IN THE CURRENT ARGUMENT OVER HOW SPEAKER STEVENS BECAME SPEAKER.

BUT THERE IS THIS BIGGER QUESTION OF WHERE DID IT CROSS THE LINE, AND DID IT CROSS THE LINE, YOU KNOW, THAT I WILL KILL EVERYTHING YOU EVER DO IN THE FUTURE, DAVE GREENSPAN, IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR MY BILL.

AND, YOU KNOW, WAS HE BEING OVERLY AGGRESSIVE BECAUSE HE WAS BEING PAID BY FIRST ENERGY?

THAT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE THE PROSECUTION IS MAKING.

YOU KNOW, DID HE PERSONALLY BENEFIT FROM THAT MONEY?

I THINK THAT'S WHERE THAT HOME TOUR OF LARRY'S HOUSE IN FLORIDA, THE JURORS GOT A VIDEO TOUR FROM THE CONTRACTOR OF ALL THE REPAIR WORK THAT WAS DONE AND THE UPGRADES.

SOME OF THAT WAS BECAUSE OF A HURRICANE, BUT DID HE PERSONALLY BENEFIT?

THAT'S ONE OF THOSE ARMS FOR THE RACKETEERING CHARGE.

>> ALSO A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THE CAMPAIGN FINANCING RULES.

YOU HAVE TO SAY YOU GOT A LOAN IF IT'S MORE THAN 50 BUCKS, DID YOU YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY HOW MUCH IT IS.

IT COULD BE $500,000, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY HOW MUCH IT IS ON YOUR FORMS.

>> RIGHT.

IN THIS CASE IT'S JUST SUCH A -- IT'S SUCH A LOOPHOLE BECAUSE LARRY HOUSEHOLDER, EVERY YEAR, AT LEAST SINCE 2018, PUT JEFF LONGSTRETH DOWN HAS GIVING HIM A GIFT OF SOME KIND.

WE DON'T KNOW.

IT COULD BE ANYWHERE ABOVE $75, YOU KNOW.

SO HE HAS REPORTED AS A GIFT.

THEN HIS LAWYERS ARE NOW SAYING THAT WAS A LOAN.

AND THEN LONGSTRENGTH IS SAYING IF IT WAS A LOAN, IT NEVER GOT PAID BACK, AND THAT MAKES IT AN ILLEGAL CONTRIBUTION.

AND THAT PIECE OF LAW IS NOT SUPER CLEAR, YOU KNOW, IF A JURY HAS TO GET INVOLVED TO RESOLVE WHETHER IT WAS PAID OR NOT PAID AND WHETHER IT WAS IN GOOD FAITH.

>> HERB, I ASKED YOU AFTER THE TRAIN DERAILMENT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE STRONGER REGULATIONS AFTER THAT.

WHEN THIS THING IS OVER, ARE WE GOING TO HAVE STRONGER REGULATIONS ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCES?

>> WE WOULD HAVE STRONGER REGULATIONS IN GENERAL ABOUT ETHICS.

I'D SAY THAT THE JOINT LEGISLATIVE ETHICS COMMITTEE, THE OHIO INSPECTOR GENERAL, THE OHIO ETHICS COMMISSION IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO GET THE JOB DONE.

YOU TALK ABOUT THIS LOOPHOLE.

THERE'S SO MANY OTHER LOOPHOLES.

IF YOU LISTEN TO THE HOUSEHOLDER DEFENDANT, I MEAN YOU KNOW THEY'RE IN TROUBLE WHEN THEIR BEST DEFENSE IS EVERYBODY DOES IT.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

>> RIGHT.

>> IF IT IS THE CASE THAT EVERYBODY DOES IT AND IT'S NOTHING NEW, THAT TELLS YOU WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN OUR ETHICS LAWS.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

>> WHAT'S LEFT IN THIS TRIAL?

>> POSSIBLY WE'RE HERE FROM TYLER FUHRMAN, WHO IS THE ONE WHO WAS KIND OF THE INFORMANT TO THE FBI, AND SENSED HE WAS BEING OFFERED A BRIBE AND WENT TO THE FBI.

AND THEN THE DEFENSE -- I MEAN THE PROSECUTION MAY REST THIS COMING WEEK.

AND THEN THEY WILL BEGIN TO GET TO HAVE THEIR SAY.

IT'S INTERESTING THEY HAVE NOT CALLED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHO HAS BEEN -- YOU KNOW, ORIGINALLY THEY SAID HE WAS MAYBE TRYING TO BE SWAYED TO NOT APPROVE THE REFERENDUM AGAINST HOUSE BILL 6.

NOW I BELIEVE HE MIGHT SHOW UP ON THE DEFENSE SIDE.

WE'LL SEE.

>> INTERESTING.

>>> OUR LAST TOPIC, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE CONTINUES TO TRY TO FIX WHAT HE HAS SAID IS NOT BROKEN.

LE ROSE, WHO HAS SAID OHIO'S ELECTION SYSTEM IS AMONG THE MOST SECURE IN THE NATION THIS WEEK PROPOSED THE STATE CLARIFY AND STANDARDIZE THE WAY ELECTION DATA IS ORGANIZED, SHARED, AND SAVED.

>> I THINK THAT WE'RE ALL AWARE THAT THERE IS A CRISIS OF CONFIDENCE.

THAT'S NOT HYPERBOLE.

TOO MANY OF OUR FELLOW OHIOANS, REALLY TOO MANY OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS LACK THE CONFIDENCE THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE IN OUR ELECTIONS.

THERE ARE A VARIETY OF REASONS FOR THAT.

SOME IS BASED ON JUST FALSE INFORMATION.

OTHERS ARE BASED ON LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND THE INABILITY TO ACCESS THE DATA THAT THEY NEED.

THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS IS -- >> HE SAYS A NEW SYSTEM WOULD BE AN ANTIDOTE TO FALSEHOODS.

VOTING RIGHTS GROUPS ARE TAKING A WAIT AND SEE APPROACH TO THIS PROPOSAL.

YOU REPORTED THIS WAS DEVELOPED WITH THE HELP OF MIT AND A THINK TANK THAT PROMOTES DONALD TRUMP'S POLICIES.

THAT SEEMS LIKE AN ODD COUPLE.

>> YEAH, IT SEEMS A LITTLE ODD.

I THINK THE DATA LAB AT MIT IS SORT OF THE KEEPER OF THESE DEFINITIONS, OF THINGS LIKE WHAT IS A VOTED BALLOT, WHAT IS A REGISTERED VOTER.

LE ROSE HAD EXPLAINED THESE COULD BE ALL OVER THE BOARD BY COUNTY, BY JURISDICTION AND ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

THE INTERESTING PART ABOUT THE THINK TANK IS THAT AFTER DONALD TRUMP, YOU KNOW, DISPUTED THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 ELECTION, THERE WERE MANY ALLIES OF HIS OR FOLKS WHO BELIEVED WHAT HE SAID WHO WERE TRYING TO ACCESS VOTER DATA.

AND THEY WANT TO DO IT IN A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT WAY.

THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO CALL, AS WE DO AS REPORTERS, EVERY SINGLE COUNTY TO FIND OUT THE RESULTS AND THEN MAKE OUR OUN DATABASES.

SO THIS IS A NATIONAL MOVEMENT TO STANDARDIZE THAT, WHICH COULD HELP SUCH EFFORTS.

BUT WHEN I ASKED LE ROSE ABOUT THAT, HE BASICALLY SAID, YEAH, WELL IF WE PULL THE CURTAIN BACK, THEY'RE GOING TO SEE HOW WELL RUN THINGS ARE, AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY SHOULD FILE A LAWSUIT.

>> THIS KIND OF MAKES SENSE.

WE ALWAYS COMPLAIN, AS JULIE MENTIONED, IT'S THIS HODGEPODGE OF THINGS AND SOME COUNTIES ARE EARLY, SOME ARE LATE.

THIS KIND OF MAKES SENSE, NO?

>> IT DOES IN A CERTAIN WAY.

LIKE, YES, IT WOULD BE NICE NOT TO HAVE TO LOOK THROUGH 88 DIFFERENT SPREADSHEETS AND TO HAVE IT ALL IN ONE PLACE PERSONALLY SPEAKING.

BUT I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING VOTING RIGHTS GROUPS SORT OF TAKING A WAIT AND SEE APPROACH.

ON ITS FACE, IT DOESN'T PARTICULARLY STRIKE THEM, OR I GET THE IMPRESSION IT DOESN'T STRIKE THEM THAT THIS IS PROBLEMATIC.

BUT THEY WANT TO BE A LITTLE HESITANT BECAUSE WE DID PASS SOME VOTING REFORMS IN THE LAST GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT THEY WERE SUPER NOT FANS OF.

>> FRANK LE ROSE SAYS WE HAVE ONE OF THE MOST SECURE ELECTION SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRY, BUT HE STILL WANTS TO KEEP CHANGING IT.

IS HE PANDERING TO THE CONSPIRACY SIDE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT THINKS THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN, AND BY JUST THROWING THIS LITTLE BIT OF DOUBT OUT, HE'S WINNING FAVOR WITH THEM?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE TO STRENGTHEN AND BE BETTER AND BREAK ANY OF THOSE NOTIONS THAT THERE WAS AN ELECTION STOLEN, AT LEAST IN OHIO.

I THINK FRANK LE ROSE IS VERY CONFIDENT THAT WE RAN ELECTIONS WELL.

BUT I'M WITH THE GROUP HERE.

I'M ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS IN THE ROOM THAT HAS WORKED FOR GOVERNORS IN PRESIDENTIAL RACES WHERE WE'RE CALLING COUNTY BY COUNTY TO ASK, ARE THE VOTES IN?

WHAT'S THE NUMBER?

LET ME PUT IT IN A SPREADSHEET.

SO WHY NOT HAVE THIS ACCESS AND ALLOW ALL VOTERS AND INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE A CENTRALIZED DATABASE.

I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT THIS DATABASE IS GOING TO BE USED FOR.

I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHO HAS ACCESS TO IT.

>> THE ARGUMENT IS IF YOU HAVE ONE DATABASE, IT'S EASY TO HACK.

>> I THINK THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE WAITING TO SEE.

YOU ASKED THE QUESTION, IS FRANK LE ROSE TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?

OF COURSE HE IS.

A COUPLE YEARS AGO, HE WAS AS GOOD AS ANYBODY IN DEFENDING THE INTEGRITY OF THE VOTING PROCESS, NOT JUST SIMPLY IN OHIO BUT NATIONALLY.

AND HE HAS LEARNED THAT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, YOU KNOW, HE'S POLITICALLY AMBITIOUS.

HE WANTS TO RUN FOR FUTURE OFFICE, AND HE'S AFRAID OF, IN FACT, THE PEOPLE WHO WILL SAY, WAIT A SECOND.

YOU'RE NOT A TRUE REPUBLICAN.

YOU'RE NOT BUYING INTO THESE ELECTION CONSPIRACIES.

AND SO HE'S GRADUALLY OVER TIME THROWING A LITTLE BIT MORE -- >> TRYING TO RIDE THAT FENCE.

>>> OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> I THINK THE NEXT OHIO STATE BASKETBALL GAME, WE'RE FINALLY GOING TO WIN.

>> WOW.

>> THE WOMEN'S TEAM OR THE MEN'S TEAM?

>> MEN'S TEAM.

>> WHAT HAVE THEY LOST, NINE IN A ROW?

>> WE'RE GOING TO WIN THE NEXT ONE.

>> HERB.

>> THE TRUSTEES HAVE JUST ANNOUNCED THE PROCESS FOR SELECTING THE NEW PRESIDENT.

>> I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO SAY BASKETBALL COACH.

>> AND IT LOOKS LIKE A VERY, VERY THOROUGH PROCESS WOULD SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS WE'LL HAVE THE NEED FOR AN INTERIM PRESIDENT UNTIL THAT PROCESS IS OVER.

SO EVERYBODY WILL HAVE THEIR CANDIDATES FOR INTERIM SO I THOUGHT I WOULD THROW OUT A FEW DAYS.

BRUCE McFARRON OR JOE ALUTO.

A FORMER TRUSTEE LIKE ALEX SHUMATE.

LOTS OF GOOD PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO COULD SERVE AS AN INTERIM, BUT IT DEPENDS ON HOW LONG YOU NEED AN INTERIM FOR.

>> HERB ASHER MAYBE?

>> FOR THOSE WHO WANT EVEN MORE INFORMATION ON THE TRAIN DERAILMENT, THE OHIO SENATE HAS ANNOUNCED WEDNESDAY AT 2:30 P.M., THEY ARE GOING TO START HEARINGS ON A SPECIAL COMMITTEE.

SO IF YOU CAN TUNE IN ON THE OHIO CHANNEL.

YOU CAN COME DOWN AND LISTEN.

THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO BRING OHIO EPA, MEMBERS FROM THE RAILROAD, MEMBERS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, KIND OF GET AS MUCH INFORMATION OUT FOR THE PUBLIC AS POSSIBLE.

>> JULIE.

>> AND EVEN AS WE BEGIN THE NEXT CYCLE OF REVISITING OHIO ELECTION LAW, THE LAST ELECTION LAW THAT WE PASSED IS NOT SETTLED YET.

WE HAVE A LOT OF GROUPS THAT ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE NEW PHOTO I.D.

REQUIREMENT IS AND, YOU KNOW, I'M WATCHING TO SEE WHETHER THAT THING STAYS SETTLED.

IT'S NOT EVEN EFFECTIVE YET.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE EFFECTIVE APRIL 7th.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OF COURSE THE OSU PRESIDENT SEARCH WILL BE COMPLETELY OPEN AND TRANSPARENT LIKE THE LAST HALF A DOZEN, WE THINK ANYWAY.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I KID.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

WE CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK.

YOU CAN WATCH US ANYTIME ON YOUR TIME AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG OR THE PBS VIDEO APP.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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!musiC@!!

!musiC@!