(bright contemplative music) - Will Ohio ask voters to approve a constitutional amendment protecting abortion rights?

Cuyahoga County Council considers a plan to pour even more money into renovations for the failing Global Center for Health Innovation, making it an extension of the convention center.

The National Football League says it will appeal Deshaun Watson's six-game suspension, seeking a stiffer penalty.

"Ideas" is next.

(riveting music) Hello, and welcome to "Ideas."

I'm Marlene Harris-Taylor, in for Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

This week, voters in Kansas rejected a measure that would've stripped protection for abortion rights from that state's constitution.

The Kansas Supreme Court ruled in 2019 that the state's constitution protects abortion rights.

The rejection of the anti-abortion measure in a deep red state has abortion rights activists in Ohio considering an amendment to protect abortion here.

The NFL will appeal the six-game suspension given to Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson over allegations of sexual misconduct during massage therapy treatments.

The Global Center for Health Innovation, previously known as the Medical Mart, is a failure.

To fix it, the county is considering millions of public dollars in renovations to make it part of the convention center.

Is that a good deal for taxpayers?

Joining me this week to talk about those stories and more are Ideastream Public Media supervising producer for Newscast Glenn Forbes, an Akron Canton reporter Anna Huntsman, and in Columbus, state house news bureau news editor Andy Chow.

Let's get started.

Voters in Kansas voted to preserve their constitutional protection to abortion, turning back a measure that would've stripped protections from that state's constitution.

Abortion rights activists in Ohio and other states say that's a good sign, and they may seek an amendment next year, protecting abortion rights.

So Andy, reproductive rights groups in Ohio say they're looking to get a measure on the ballot.

Do we know if that can happen?

- It certainly can happen, but it's a huge ask.

It's a really big steep uphill climb in order to put something like this on the ballot.

The situation and the events that unfolded in Kansas are very interesting, and I know that a lot of abortion rights advocates here in Ohio are keeping a close eye on that.

When you look at the polling that's done on the issue of abortion, a wide amount of people, the general public and about 60%, at least, approve some type of abortion.

At least with some exceptions, at least with some restrictions, the general public approve some type of access to abortion rights, and so to see a state like Kansas reject the ballot issue that they did on Tuesday is a big signal to abortion rights advocates here in Ohio.

Now the key difference is in it all depends on what the question is that's being asked by voters on the ballot.

In Kansas, it was to enshrine anti-abortion language into the constitution.

Ohio is looking into enshrining abortion rights access into the Ohio constitution.

So it's the reverse of what Kansas just did with the same sentiment but a different question that's being asked.

- And what about the signature process?

It's not easy in Ohio to get enough signatures, right?

- That's right, Marlene.

You have to gather more than 100,000 signatures from across Ohio from at least the 44 of Ohio's 88 counties, and it's based on a percentage of the last gubernatorial race.

So if this were to be done for next year, it would be based on whatever the turnout is for this year's gubernatorial race.

So if there's a very low turnout this November, then it could be a little easier to collect signatures for next year's ballot, but it's still a lot of signatures.

But what we have seen in the past with other ballot measures that are put on a statewide ballot initiative is that it all comes down to how much money is put behind the issue.

If certain groups rally together, put a certain amount of money behind it, they are able to basically hire the amount of signature collectors that they need, and they're able to put in place a system that can collect the signatures that they need.

There are plenty of experts in Ohio who know how to do that.

It just requires money.

- Yeah, that's a good point, Andy, 'cause my understanding is there was a lot of outside money that was put into Kansas because that was a standalone case.

When and if advocates are able to get a ballot measure in Ohio, the question would be would those national resources be able to be put into Ohio the same way they were put into Kansas?

- That's right, and we have to remember that the game has changed a little bit in Ohio when it comes to putting something on the ballot.

Back in 2019, when HB6 was passed, that was a nuclear bailout bill that the Ohio legislature passed.

There was a group of people who wanted to put a referendum of repeal of that bill on the ballot, and what we saw was even the signature collecting was a very big, contentious, expensive thing that happened where there were people trying to follow signature collectors around and trying to persuade people to not sign what they were being handed.

So the issue of even putting something on the ballot here in Ohio has become very contentious.

So you're right, Marlene.

There is expected to be a lot of money coming in from out of Ohio if an issue like this were to be put in place.

There could be signature gatherers, and then there could be people out there trying to convince people to not sign the petition, so it could get really messy here in Ohio.

- And Anna, there's another difference between Ohio and Kansas.

In Kansas, the Supreme court and the state had already determined that protecting abortion was in the constitution there, but that's not the case in Ohio, right?

- Yeah, Kansas, their state Supreme Court had decided on this case back in, I think, 2019.

So this was something that was already there, and then the Republican legislature there put this on the ballot, which that's also a difference.

I don't know if we already mentioned this, but the legislators there are the ones who can put things on the ballot whereas in Ohio voters and people can, like we were talking about, can collect signatures.

So that's just another key difference, but yeah, so it was already in the constitution.

Here in Ohio, we haven't had that same process with the Supreme Court to decide on something in the constitution.

Right now, obviously, we have the six-week abortion ban, and that's the current law in the state.

- And Anna, it's also not known what restrictions on the procedure, if any, would be part of an amendment here in Ohio, - Right.

- right?

and that could have implications for voters, too, depending on what restrictions are in there.

- Absolutely.

I think abortion is one of those things that people, everybody has an opinion on it.

There's a whole spectrum of some people don't think it should be at all.

Some people think every case.

Some people think only when there's up until the heartbeat is detected.

Some people think only rape and incest.

Again, there's so many opinions out there.

It would be really interesting to see what would voters choose depending on what is permitted and whatever would be on this ballot measure.

- Yeah, I think that's the key.

It's ballot language, and I think the other thing about this that we all forget, we we're all guilty of this, right?

We tend to put political parties as like homogenous groups.

All Democrats think this.

All Republicans think this.

I think what Kansas shows us is that there's some nuance of opinion among Republicans.

There's a certain segment of Republicans who think that they don't want continued government interference like this and that this goes too far.

There's another segment of Republicans, I think, that are in favor of abortion rights or the ability to get an abortion in some cases, rape, incest, things like that, and if you have this total ban, that's a step too far or a couple steps too far for even some Republicans.

So I think we need to understand that there is a difference of opinion, even within parties on this.

The outliers are the outliers, and there's differences of opinion in both parties about how far to take this, I would say.

- That's a really good point because people were really shocked.

Kansas is a red state and, to your point, Glenn, people have a nuanced view of this.

And Andy, this is gonna play out in the governor's race, in Ohio, don't you think?

- It's absolutely, Marlene, and what we've already seen before the May primary was that there were campaigns that tried to really focus on the issue of abortion.

Nan Whaley, who's now the democratic nominee for Ohio governor, she made that a key point of her campaign to talk about abortion rights, access to abortion, and if you ask their campaign, they would say that was definitely the winning strategy to win that democratic nomination.

And Nan Whaley says that as she goes out and campaigns in suburban areas, rural areas, urban areas, she says she's seeing large crowds of people who really want to focus and to continue focusing on the issues.

So she does plan on making abortion the main topic of her campaign, and on the flip side of that, Republican governor Mike DeWine, who has signed several bills to restrict abortion over his time as governor, he has the track record of appealing to the anti-abortion groups.

Now with the new situation happening in Ohio, he is trying to find that new campaign line to walk where he's still trying to appeal to those anti-abortion groups yet not trying to lose out on maybe some of those more moderate voters.

- So Andy, when's the earliest we could possibly see something like this on the ballot, if it were to move forward?

- The earliest it could be is next year.

So when it comes to collecting signatures, it would likely be based off of whatever the turnout is for this November's gubernatorial election, and then signature gathers would likely go out next year.

And to keep in mind of all the things that we've talked about already, the legislature has said that it wants to pass a total ban on abortion when they come back in November.

So the landscape could change once again here in Ohio once people go out and collect those signatures.

It's possible that when people are trying to put something on the ballot, Ohio could be a state that bans abortion entirely.

(riveting music) - The National Football League says it will appeal Deshaun Watson's six-game suspension, seeking a stiffer penalty.

A former New Jersey attorney general will decide the appeal.

So it's unlikely that punishment is gonna stay the same, right?

- Well, yeah, and I think it was interesting last Sunday night when the NFL Players Association came out and said, "We will not be appealing this ruling by Sue L. Robinson, and we encourage the league to do the same."

That's your first indication that they felt like the ruling was gonna be more favorable to Deshaun Watson when they come out and they say they're not going to appeal.

The interesting thing about Peter Harvey, he is familiar with the NFL's disciplinary process.

He was involved in the Ezekiel Elliott case, of course, the former star running back at Ohio State, now with Dallas.

But what the NFL is contending is that this is an unprecedented situation.

If you look at Ben Roethlisberger or Ezekiel Elliott, those cases where they got six games and on appeal was moved down to four, they're saying there are only one or two accusers in those cases.

Even though some of the details might be somewhat similar, the fact that there are 24 accusers, even though the NFL, I believe, presented four or five of them as part of their argument toward Sue L. Robinson, that this is an unprecedented situation, so their punishment doesn't have to follow precedent.

But the NFL Players Association has agreed to the six games.

Reportedly, the NFL still wants a full season ban, which would be 17 games.

This also opens up the possibility that there could be more settlement talks between the Players Association and the league.

Maybe they land on eight, maybe they land on 10, or the Players Association and Watson are dug in and are saying, "It's six or we'll see you in federal court."

- Now are you surprised that Goodell took hisself out of the process?

- Not necessarily because the NFL, even though sometimes it may not seem like it to a lot of people, they are very concerned with public opinion.

Let's face it.

Their business is based in public opinion, right?

There's gonna be hardcore fans who watch no matter what, but then there are casual fans and maybe some on the outside that they're always looking to attract.

So the NFL is very interested in public opinion.

They're very concerned with public opinion.

So I am not all that surprised that Roger Goodell said, "No, I'm gonna appoint this designee, this Peter Harvey," who, as I mentioned, does have experience in these disciplinary cases.

- Well Anna, this has been talked about nationwide here in Cleveland.

It's a subject of online conversation.

What are people saying about this?

It goes well beyond sports.

- Absolutely.

I actually went to the Browns training camp the other day.

I found myself in a place I had never been before in my reporting, but it happens, and so, of course, a little bit of a biased sample there.

If people are coming out to watch the Browns in training camp, they are most likely in favor of the team.

But I did talk to quite a few people about that was the day the suspension came out.

I didn't even have to ask the question right off the bat, and a lot of people said, "We're super excited once our quarterback is back."

So that was right away, a lot of people were, they told me they were satisfied and relieved with the six-game suspension.

A lot of people thought it was gonna be more.

I had someone tell me that they were glad it wasn't Roger Goodell that had it 'cause they thought he would've done something more than this other judge, so- - Then it ended up back with Roger Goodell, after they said that.

- That's exactly, that's why it's so ironic that now it is back with them, and I kept thinking about that person.

I was like, "Man, I wonder what their thoughts are."

There were a couple people who did say that they wanted some accountability, so they were glad that there was some sort of suspension, but I think most people were just ready to move on with the season, and they were, at the time, glad it was over and done with and they could move on, and then two days later.

- The Browns knew what they were were getting into or they should have known what they were getting into when they decided to sell the farm.

I won't say sell their souls.

Other people can say that, and I've heard it.

- But they- - (laughs) Because of the amount of the contract, they're saying that.

- That the amount of the contract, what you gave up, and the fact that your quarterback is the face of your franchise.

As important as offensive and defensive linemen are, this is not a guy that's hidden among five or six guys or the other 11 guys on the field.

Your quarterback is supposed to be your main superstar, your representative of your organization.

Do you want this guy as the representative of your organization?

The Haslams decided yes they did.

- Anna, the women who are accused Watson, they spoke through their attorney yesterday.

What did they say?

- They were saying that they were definitely disappointed.

We also heard not just from the victims, but before that, we heard from the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center, saying that they were also disappointed.

They felt like there should have been more, and that this is, again, saying triggering for a lot of women.

And I also wanted to point out along with this, there are 24 women who have come forward.

There are more women who have been interviewed about this, and I heard a lot of people at the Browns training camp the other day saying that they were treating this as, "We've had quarterback drama in the past."

I had someone say that to me.

"We're used to the quarterback drama," and I feel like this is a different level of drama.

There are real people out there that have been impacted by this, and this is a really serious issue, and so I just wanted to throw that out there.

- Yeah, this does feel different, I agree.

I heard someone say that people outside of Cleveland would like to see a bigger penalty - Yeah.

- Sure.

- and people in Cleveland were relieved (laughs) it was not as harsh for the extent.

- And it, and it does mirror the Roethlisberger thing.

Obviously, I am no fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and you wanna see the league come down hard when there are accusations like this.

It would be hypocritical of a lot of Browns fans, including me, to turn around and say, "Well, they should go easy on Deshaun Watson."

As Anna pointed out, this is not about poor play.

This is not about poor scouting.

This is not about him making too much money.

This is about him being accused of being a sexual predator, and even Sue Robinson said "unwanted sexual contact."

When you look at not only his stature, his wealth, his physical size, I think you could see how a lot of these massage therapists felt like they were put in a very uncomfortable position, and that's putting it generously, when it comes to Deshaun Watson.

- And a lot of people were a little surprised by the penalty that he was given.

It was nothing compared to the amount of money he's making.

- Well, and I would say- - In terms of the money.

- In terms of his salary.

And so a couple things on that when you read the report from Sue L. Robinson, it is very judicious.

Of course, that's what you would expect from a former federal judge, right?

But she was very critical of both sides.

Look, she was very critical of Watson, but she was critical for the NFL, too, of being very inconsistent in the way they've levied some of these punishments, and an interesting part in the decision was her saying, "Yes, the NFL is trying to change the culture and maybe make this more of a cultural shift and try to punish Watson more than they have previous players," but that is a fair labor act issue.

We've gotta remember, this is a labor issue.

This is a management versus labor issue, and if you don't give roper notice that you're going to significantly increase these disciplinary measures, that is an issue that is gonna have to be decided in federal court somewhere else.

So her decision was, "Listen, you didn't give the Players Union fair notice that you were going to potentially double these penalties from what you've done in the past," and that was an issue for Sue Robinson.

- So what do you think, Glenn?

Is this gonna be settled, or is this gonna play out in the courts for awhile?

- I think it'll play out in the courts for awhile.

I said I was gonna mention the salary thing real quick.

So Deshaun Watson's base salary this year is $1 million.

His signing bonus this year, which cannot be touched by suspension, is $45 million.

So he's getting that $45 million pretty much no matter what.

There was some speculation that the Browns did this on purpose to try to shield Watson and his money, but I will say there are a lot of contracts that call for very low base salaries in the beginning, and then they continue to rise.

They do that for salary cap purposes to try to get more players under the salary cap and things like that.

The interesting part about this, Marlene, is if the suspension is significantly lengthened and the Players Association decides they do wanna appeal this in federal court, if a temporary restraining order is issued, Deshaun Watson can play football for the Cleveland Browns while this case is being adjudicated.

He could start the season.

He could start game one.

There may be no six-game suspension, at least until this is figured out in the courts.

He would be able to play while this was in appeals.

(riveting music) - Cuyahoga County council is considering a plan to pour millions of public tax dollars into renovating the Global Center for Health Innovation.

Tourism officials say the renovation is needed to connect better to the convention center, but opponents say it's throwing even more public money into a failed project.

Glenn, the prospect of a money pit is something that taxpayers are not looking forward to.

The price tag for the renovations is hard to pin down as costs inflate, but the public will be on the hook for a chunk of it, right?

- Well, it could be about 50 million, but as you said, that could change, and I hate to be that guy, but government doesn't have any money of their own, right?

They get it through taxation.

So, mostly this is going to be, unless you've got one of these big-time private public partnerships, which you might get some kicked in from the private sector, but it seems to be mostly a public sector project.

I was glad to see that David Gilbert and that other leaders are acknowledging, "Hey, this did not work out."

And it's not so much that they're doubling down on this.

What they're saying is this is a valuable piece of real estate.

You mention all the hotels and the convention centers around it.

If you put in a sky bridge, right?

That makes Cleveland more attractive the six months out of the year or more that it's not so nice weather here, right?

- Oh yeah.

We'd love to be able to go across without going outside and snow in the cold, right?

- Exactly.

- Right downtown on the lake.

- So that space is there.

You mentioned some of the great hotels around there.

It's interesting.

I've only been in the formerly known as the Medical Mart twice.

Once was for when it first opened and we were taking a tour.

The second time was when there was an outdoor concert on the malls out there, and that served as the VIP area where people were getting drinks to go to the bathroom and stuff like that.

So when I was there, I thought, "Wow, this is not what the intended use of this facility was."

I've talked fair amount of times to David Gilbert.

I think he's a guy who obviously is willing to adjust and look at what the situation is.

How can they make it better?

It's a better plan than doubling down on the Medical Mart idea of like this hub of medical entrepreneurs.

I made the comment to Jeff St. Clair, my colleague here, who does midday on WKSU, that you would think the hospitals in the area would want that on their own facilities, right?

The Cleveland clinic is gonna want it on their own campus a little further east.

University Hospital is gonna want some of those things on their own property.

So while the initial idea of this may not have been great, it is right in the middle of these hotels of this convention center.

Maybe there is a use for this space somewhere, but as you mentioned, it's a bit of a boondoggle, isn't it?

And that's the way taxpayers are gonna look at this.

Like you're gonna put even more, 50 million or more into this?

- Yeah.

Are you gonna throw good money after bad is what a lot of people - Right, exactly!

- are gonna ask.

So Glenn, there seems to be a lot of questions on council, but so far we haven't heard any no votes.

How do we think this is gonna play out?

- Yeah.

There were some scant no votes.

It was Councilwoman Yvonne Conwell who voted against moving the legislation forward.

Cheryl Stephens, notably also the democratic nominee for lieutenant governor this year, she voted against the proposal in committee.

This is also going to involve the city of Cleveland.

I mentioned the possibility for some private money coming into this, but I would think more council members are going to have to see where exactly this money is going and how much before the full council approves it, I should say.

(riveting music) - The Ohio State Fair wraps up on Sunday, and recently, our health team intern, Amanda Martinez Moreno, rounded up the nutritional numbers of some of those fair food favorites.

I know you don't wanna hear about this.

- Why would you even do that?

- I was gonna say!

Why did you approve that?

That's just spoiling the fun.

- Calories don't count - Come on!

- during holidays and during fair season, Marlene.

- Right?

- Okay, yeah.

Well, yeah, the nutritionist said the same thing, but no surprise.

All these are calorie-laden diet busters, right?

So we dug up to find out how much walking around the fairground you need to do, and you can check it out.

Like if you're not like Glenn and Anna, if you wanna know how many calories are in those elephant ears or in that corn dog, you can go to wksu.org and check out Amanda's story there.

- It actually is very informative, though.

I checked out the story, and there's some interesting advice, too, 'cause it can upset your digestive system - Sure.

- to eat that kind of stuff.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Absolutely.

And so you don't wanna have a bellyache at the fair when you're trying to enjoy the rides and the animals and all that, so there's ways like eating slower or taking your time with food.

I thought that was really interesting.

- Now everybody has a favorite.

So we gotta share.

So Anna, what's your favorite at the fair?

- Well, I love the lemon shake ups.

I really like lemonade, but- - [Marlene] Now those are pretty low calorie, but a lot of sugar.

- A lot of sugar.

I know it's at the top of the list, but I really like the funnel cakes, and I also like when they put hot fudge on them.

So I don't even wanna know.

- Wow.

- I don't even wanna know, all right?

- Wow.

- Just go to Glenn.

- Okay, Glenn, Glenn.

- She took - What's your favorite?

- that extra step there.

Yes, I like that.

Well, I do like funnel cakes, but I gotta say the little basket of fries you get are usually amazing, - Yeah.

- and the elephant ears, too, also very good.

- Yeah.

Ooh, elephant ears.

We did like a top 10.

Elephant ears was up there at the top.

Well, I have to say that my favorite is caramel corn.

- Oh.

- Ooh!

- I love kettle corn, which is lower calorie, but caramel corn.

Andy, I gotta make sure you get in on this.

What's your favorite fair food?

- Oh, absolutely, the deep fried Three Musketeers bar is my favorite.

- Ooh!

- I've never tried that.

- Andy, I can't imagine how many calories - Once a year.

- are in that and how much walking - (laughs) Once a year.

- you have to do.

- (laughs) Right.

- Monday on the "Sound of Ideas" on 89.7 WKSU, we'll preview the latest installment of our Sound of Us series, this time featuring stories from the interns at Ideastream who've been working with us all summer.

I'm Marlene Harris-Taylor in for Mike McIntyre, who will be back next week.

Thanks for watching.

(bright contemplative music) (bright electronic music)