(bright music) - [Mike] The Ohio Oil and Gas Land Management Commission has approved fracking under a state park and two wildlife areas.

The search for answers in the tragic bus crash that killed six, including three Tusky Valley students, will take time.

And the renewal campaign for the tax that funds arts in Cuyahoga County was put on pause as concerns are raised about the process of distributing the grants.

Ideas is next.

(dramatic music) Hello, and welcome to Ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

A state commission voted this week to allow fracking under two state wildlife areas and the Salt Fork State Park.

The decision came despite vocal opposition from protestors.

The National Transportation Safety Board says it could take more than a year to complete its investigation into a crash that killed six people from the Tusky Valley School District, including three students in the high school marching band.

The campaign to raise money to fund passage next year of an increase in the cigarette tax to fund the arts was paused this week.

There are concerns about the funding source and the process for awarding the money.

And a nonprofit will take over Cleveland's West Side Market next year.

Joining me to talk about the week's news, from Idea Stream Public Media, local government reporter, Abbey Marshall.

And education reporter, Conor Morris.

In Columbus, State House News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to Roundtable.

Oil and gas companies can now begin bidding for the right to frack for natural gas under Salt Fork State Park and two Ohio-owned wildlife areas.

The Oil and Gas Land Management Commission approved seven of 10 requests at a raucous meeting this week filled with protestors.

Karen, based on the way lawmakers tweaked this process, many felt the commission really was unlikely to throw up any roadblocks at all.

- When I was at the meeting last time, I spoke with Ryan Richardson, who's the ODNR, Ohio Department of Natural Resources Deputy Legal Counsel, and also the chair of this commission.

And she said the criteria is set out in state law of what we're supposed to do, supposed to consider with respect to individual nominated land.

They don't feel that they have any room to move here, that they have to approve wholesale block drilling in parks and on state lands.

They have to approve it if it meets the criteria that's set out in state law.

- So we're having this happen now in 2023.

The land leasing program was approved way back in 2011.

Rules, though, were never implemented.

And then a state law passed in 2022 opened this up?

- Yeah.

It was a law that changed the word to I think "can" to "shall."

It was a slight change, and I remember talking to Governor Mike DeWine about that because he signed the bill that did that change.

And he said that this is a law that's been on the books for a while, so this just pushes it forward.

And you've got a lot of companies that are interested in doing this.

I think there are about 98 individual companies and individuals who have registered to lobby the board with regard to putting forward these fracking permits.

And the pressure on the state to allow fracking in these areas is really tremendous.

- If I'm remembering, wasn't that the same legislation that expanded the definition of green energy to natural gas?

- Yeah, it redefined green energy to also include natural gas, which is really kind of amazing considering that natural gas has a lot of methane and methane is one of the contributors to climate change.

- [Mike] And it's a fossil fuel.

- Yes.

- The environmental groups, many of whom we heard protesting at this event, and it was, as I mentioned earlier, raucous, they still have a lawsuit pending to try and stop this new land leasing law.

- Yeah, this is the Ohio Environmental Council, the Sierra Club, and other groups that are involved.

And the folks who have been involved in this are very passionate.

I've been to two of these meetings and again, stopped by earlier this week.

And I see the same people and they're very vivid about their concerns about this.

They've even had rallies at the State House here to try to convince this panel that there should not be drilling in state parks and on state land.

They have been unable to do that because the panel says the law requires us to approve permits as long as they meet the requirements.

So, while they've done a lot of chanting and singing and holding up signs, wearing costumes, it's been a real visual demonstration.

In fact, in this meeting, they even interrupted the meeting to the point where you couldn't even hear the commissioners as they were taking the votes, but they have not been able to achieve their ultimate goal, which is stopping drilling on public lands.

- You said you've seen some of the same people.

Was Melbourne Penny Bags there before?

- The Monopoly guy with the money.

(laughs) - [Mike] And the monocle.

- There's that one there.

There's just so many.

I think, you know, the idea of this being kind of, let's get people involved with the political theater of it is part of that, but these people are very serious about their concerns about this.

And there was one meeting where there was a preschool teacher from Athens County who gets up there and sings, and she's written whole songs about her concerns about fracking on public lands.

And so these people are very, very committed.

But again, they haven't been able to stop this.

And now it remains to be seen what's going to happen now that there is gonna be fracking allowed on these lands.

- The question now is what happens with the land itself?

The law says that you could drill on the very surface of state parks, but Governor DeWine said, "Nope, we're gonna make sure that it's outside that region."

- Yeah.

And it's interesting because DeWine, again, signed the law that changed the wording of the law that existed already so all this process started to move forward.

But he said there's not gonna be drilling in state parks like a big setup where people can see where the land will be damaged.

I don't know if that will eventually be the case.

I mean, the applications that have been approved require drillers to start from well pads that are adjacent to the parks, but not in the parks.

And DeWine keeps saying there will be no interruption, that there is drilling near parks even now, and that people won't notice.

People will still be able to use parks as they always have.

Again, that is the thing that remains to be seen here.

And the concern of course is that this will disrupt those parks, the environment, and also the people who live in the areas around those parks.

I mean, the concerns about water contamination and other things, air pollution, all the things that come with drilling.

There's a real worry that this is gonna be part of what people, in eastern Ohio especially, are gonna have to deal with.

- It's interesting you said "won't notice" because the opponents of fracking will say that the neighbors certainly notice all of the fracking that's happening outside of state parks.

They're being affected by it.

- Right.

And again, that I think is really the question here as we watch to see what happens.

It's gonna be a long process.

I mean, it's not like it's gonna happen tomorrow.

But again, with all of the interest in doing this drilling, it's gonna happen, most likely, in fairly short order I guess.

- Finally, this is gonna bring a lot of money.

That's the whole point of this is there's people that want to get at that natural resource and they are going to pay for it.

The question is, can you do that in an environmentally sound way?

We're hearing from lawmakers like Matt Huffman, the senate president, who are saying, "Oh yeah, we're gonna do it in a very environmentally safe way."

That's not convincing a whole lot of the opponents.

- Right.

And especially when, like Matt Huffman for instance, talked about the revenue that's gonna be raised from this weeks and weeks ago, maybe even months ago.

I'm losing track of time here.

But yeah, there is a move by state lawmakers to look at this and figure out, "Hey, we're gonna have all this new revenue coming in.

What are we gonna do with it?"

Counting that money before it arrives is a little bit of a concern here, but the worry too, I think, and it's a real one, is what's gonna happen in those lands and what's gonna be the impact here?

I mean, we've heard about the dangers of fracking for many, many years.

Is this going to end up being a safe process?

And Governor Mike DeWine says he's not gonna allow the drilling in the parks.

We'll see what happens with that.

(dramatic music) - The National Transportation Safety Board says its investigation into a chain reaction crash that killed six people Tuesday could take more than a year.

The crash on I-70 near Columbus involved a charter bus carrying the Tusky Valley marching swing band.

The community is still reeling, and our Roundtable producer Leigh Barr lives in the community.

She graduated from the high school.

She played flute in the same marching band.

She helped us tell the story of the Tusky Valley residents Tuesday.

And then she told her own story, one many in the valley are feeling.

You can read her essay, My School, My Band, Our Tears at IdeaStream.org.

Conor, a year is a long time to wait for answers.

NTSB does say a preliminary report should be available soon.

- Yeah, they said in the next two to three weeks or so, there'd be some preliminary results.

And you know, I guess the latest there is just that they've extended their Thanksgiving break at the school district.

So it's gonna be a little longer than usual to allow some time to grieve.

- District called the crash "the darkest day."

Let's talk a little bit about that.

I know there's some services that are planned this weekend.

There already were some vigils.

Our Anna Huntsman covered one the evening of the crash.

But this is a very small, very tight-knit community that's really reeling from this.

- Yeah, sure.

I mean, I think that any community would be devastated by this.

I mean, it's just a such a significant loss of life for sure.

And you know, I think that some people, locally, might bulk a little bit at some of the coverage of people, you know, coming in and saying this is a rural area and this kind of stuff never happens here.

And while that might be true, you know, I think that we do need folks with some investment in the community like Leigh, for example, who are coming in and saying, "Hey, this is a great place to live."

You know, businesses are stepping up she told us, donating time and resources, and the churches are big places where folks can go and grieve for those that they knew.

So it seems like a lot of folks are stepping up down there.

- And such a tragedy too.

It brings back a tragedy that happened in 1980 when there was a car accident that claimed the lives of five Tusky Valley volleyball players.

So that's certainly hearkening back and the community is gathering around that, and certainly many remember it.

Karen, governor DeWine had similar language, calling it a worse nightmare besides offering condolences right now.

And by the way, the governor has a personal connection.

His daughter was killed in a car accident as well, and he became very emotional about that.

Besides offering the condolences and that kind of connection, what, if anything, can he or lawmakers do in terms of safety in general?

We heard the National Transportation Safety Board say that it is a public health crisis on the highways.

- Well, we asked both Senate President Matt Huffman and House Speaker Jason Stevens about that specifically, what can the state do?

And neither one of them had any answers right now.

I think waiting to see what happened in the NTSB report is a big part of that and trying to develop, you know, are there any strategies?

Is there anything that the state could have done, any law, anything that could be been put in place?

I mean, when we first heard about this and the school part connection, we were thinking maybe it was a school bus, which of course the state has been working on.

There's a task force that's looking into school buses and whether there should be seat belts on them and whether those buses are safe for kids to ride in.

But of course, this was a charter bus.

This is totally different.

And so I think there's also potentially federal legislation that could come into play because these charter buses do cross state lines.

- Yeah, interesting.

And more and more it seems schools are using charter buses because of shortages.

Right, Conor, and the number of drivers that would drive a school bus.

And so you'll see these districts using more charter buses rather than school buses.

- Smaller school districts have smaller budgets as well too.

That means less buses, less money for full-time drivers, or even part-time drivers, and again, the shortages are affecting those drivers for sure.

And I mean, I really don't like saying this, but driving in general is one of the most dangerous, riskiest things that we do every day.

It's not just a bus, but cars too.

Just being on the highway is just kind of...

I mean, there's 41,000 people that die in accidents every year, and so that kind of speaks also.

I mean, our society is built around the car and highways, so what do you do about that?

- Trying to find out what exactly happened here.

I was shocked to hear it's gonna take more than a year because it seems like, come on, that's ridiculous.

You have an accident and the police can come and ascribe blame immediately.

So that might be for all the various details.

We'll get the report shortly after that.

But it seems one of the things they're gonna be looking at are are there any camera videos?

Did anyone have a dash cam in their car?

Was there a business that videotaped it?

There are black boxes in some of these vehicles that would tell you that kind of stuff.

The investigation is gonna be pretty extensive.

- Sure, and it's pretty par for the course to have a pretty lengthy investigation as far as that goes.

But yeah, well I think that there usually is quite a bit of information, you know, available after these like kind of preliminary reports typically.

Might not necessarily be an assignment of blame, but probably know a lot more then.

(dramatic music) - The campaign to raise money for a 2024 ballot issue to renew the cigarette tax levy for arts funding was put on pause this week.

Concerns have been raised over the process used to distribute the funds by Cuyahoga Arts and Culture.

Fred Bidwell, an influential arts leader, said changes need to be made before seeking a levy renewal.

Abbey, in pausing the issue campaign, Bidwell said the arts community was unlikely to support it and that support is critical.

- Yeah, public support exists and is important, but he said this can't go through without support from the artistic community.

And he said that a lot of the artists in the county are concerned with what he called mission creep into advocacy, other programming.

- [Mike] Just from Cuyahoga Arts and Culture.

- Correct.

Yeah.

And how those funds are being distributed.

So he's saying that taking a pause will give the chance for the organization to clarify that point, as well as make sure they have money in the bank instead of just saying, "We promise we'll give you this money."

- Jill Paulsen from Cuyahoga Arts and Culture says it is a transparent process, that overhead has been reduced.

But she also said this was hard to hear from Fred Bidwell and that there needs to be a discussion.

It sounds to me like everybody in the arts community is saying, yes, we need this tax or some sort of tax to continue and we've gotta sort of roll up our sleeves and make sure we're all on the same page now.

- Yeah, Jill Paulsen did say, you know, she did underscore the transparency, what she says is public and transparent process, did say it is hard to hear, but she did say if the artistic community doesn't come together on this, there isn't gonna be another levy and that the organization would basically be gone.

So in her mind, the stakes are very high to kind of get this going and not take that pause.

- Black artists in particular, and we've covered these issues, have been critical of how grant money is awarded.

- So about 18% of the applicants are Black, indigenous, or other people of color, which is fairly low when you look at the demographics for a city like Cleveland, which has a population that is majority minority.

There were several people that went to this meeting about this issue that said existing funding for Black artists fall short and some were really critical of some of the stipulations attached to the grants which ask artists who are awarded the grants to support the organization, its projects, and help the organization feel more connected to the community.

And they're saying, "We are the community, we want support."

And they wanna feel more heard and feel like the process is more transparent.

- It should be noted that when the tax was first initiated in 2007, it raked in 20 million bucks a year.

Now it's half that.

- [Abbey] Right.

- The whole idea is it's tied to cigarette smoking, cigarette smoking has gone down.

So there's, there's a bigger existential issue in terms of where arts funding would come from.

- Correct.

And also, as with everything, the pandemic did affect the arts community, arts production, that sort of thing.

So you kind of are at this tipping point where you can see why the increase in the levee seems very critical right now for people that are trying to survive producing art.

- The board of Cuyahoga Arts and Culture approved, as I mentioned, nearly $11 million in grants for 300 arts nonprofits this week.

That is an annual distribution that these organizations rely on.

We're not looking at a sunset of the tax until 2027.

So there's some time, but there was a consultant that said next year is the time to go for it.

So there's still some discussion time that tax isn't necessarily going away, but it's gotta be resolved.

- Right.

And I think that the main issue that people are having, that the artists are having is that this tax was intended to fund artists and, like I mentioned, the mission creep.

So you're talking marketing, programming, education.

There are artists that say those are worthy causes, but that's not what this was designed to do.

And every dollar that's going toward that is actually taking money away from artists.

(dramatic music) - Cleveland Metropolitan School District students convened a gun summit this week to develop a plan to deal with gun violence.

Six CMSD students and a recent graduate have been fatally shot since June.

Idea Stream is digging deeply into gun violence in Northeast Ohio.

And certainly, one of the areas, Conor, where we're seeing gun violence is in the student population.

- Yeah, and that recent graduate was actually the kid of a principal at a CMSD school.

So the students and the adults who organized it are just kind of tired of all of the hurt that gun violence is causing at the school district, in their community.

There was a summit last year that they did that was similar to this and there was, you know, about 200 students there or so and they asked them to raise their hands if they know somebody who's been shot and injured or killed, and there were dozens of students that raised their hands.

- That's gotta blow you away.

If you're listening to this program and you live in numerous wonderful communities, Cleveland's a great community, you know, Lakewood, Strongsville, your hand might go up differently if you live in some of these communities.

The idea that somebody knows someone who's been shot or has been shot themselves would be an outlier.

And yet you're seeing, when you go to this summit, dozens of kids, - Significant number.

I mean, it's uncles, it's cousins, but it's also siblings, and even parents.

The summit was part of a civic engagement effort at the district and there was a panel on gun violence, so there were folks who were affected by it.

Some other leaders in the space as well.

And the students also worked on some action plans for what they and the district can do.

You know, the hope is really that they want to advocate for themselves, whatever that might look like.

The problem though is that with gun laws in our country and the accessibility of guns and even just, you know, how the Constitution is the right to bear arms.

Other countries do not have this level of loss due to gun violence that we have.

And so they're trying their best, you know, they want to do something about it, but how much they can get accomplished, it remains to be seen.

- I mentioned our effort to look at gun violence in Cleveland.

Abbey actually kicked that off with a story last week where you talked to a youngster.

How old was he?

- He was 12.

- 12 years old who said, "Yeah, I have a friend who was killed in gunfire."

- Yeah, he said when he was nine, he had a friend shot in the head.

And I opened that story with a comment of his where he said, "Every time I see a gun, I run."

And I said, "Well, you say that like it happens often."

And he said, "Yeah, you never know when someone's gonna pull up and start shooting."

And that's a really, really hard reality that many children and people in this city are facing.

- And then there's the reality too, that we, a few years ago, with The Sound of Ideas, went to the juvenile detention center and discussed this issue with some of the young people that were housed there.

And they said, "Of course we have guns.

Everyone has to have a gun."

It's a gun culture.

Where do you get the guns from?

They said, "We get them from older OGs."

But yeah, "What are you talking about?

I'm not gonna walk down the street without a gun.

Somebody might shoot at me, I'm gonna shoot back."

So at one point it's the, "I run when I see a gun," and the other point it might be, "I'm retaliating when I see a gun."

- Yeah, I think it eventually can become that.

That's what we were asking some of the kids that we were talking to and we said, "Do you feel like you need a gun to protect yourself?"

And at that age they were like, "No."

But some of the older kids said, you know, "Maybe one day we would need that."

- Right.

And Conor, the summit is an important part of a civic engagement program that the kids have to learn civics, to be involved.

If there's ever gonna be change, it's going to have to come from young people.

- Yeah.

And that's what Gail Gadison, who's the one that created the program, it's called Civics 2.0, that's what she says, that the answers and solutions might have to come from this generation.

So they do voter registration, they do some of these advocacy events around gun violence, try to talk to their elected officials and other leaders in the community, try to get a better understanding of just how the civic process works.

Because I think for a long time schools in this country, you've got your social studies, yes, and many districts have strong social studies programs, but you know, to get a really deep understanding of how you can potentially activate change is not necessarily coming through.

(dramatic music) - The nonprofit, Cleveland Public Market Corporation will take over the day-to-day operations of the iconic West Side Market in 2024.

The culmination of a long process to get the market out from under city management where it has struggled in recent years.

The city currently runs the market at a financial loss, even though it's one of the most popular attractions.

Abbey, what plan does the Cleveland Public Market Corporation have for turning the West Side Market around?

- [Abbey] Yeah, so mostly we're gonna focus on infrastructure upgrades.

I've done a lot of reporting on issues that vendors have had at this market with a lot of the aging infrastructure that they say the city has not maintained or kept up as the landlord of this.

You know, you have issues with the elevators breaking down, which kind of can shutter business for some people getting their stuff to the floor.

But beyond that, there are also some new revenue streams and upgrades for the public.

So you talk about converting a produce hall to a prepared food hall, beer, indoor and outdoor seating, event spaces and programming, a commercial kitchen so vendors can actually prepare things on site, which is not currently an option.

Things like that.

So there's a huge-- it's a $44 million master plan.

- So we've talked about this for years and then the move toward this, but what we have now, basically, is it's reality starting next year.

- Correct.

So having a nonprofit will allow them to dedicate a staff to fundraising and really focusing on the market, but it also will open the door for tax credits that are only available to nonprofits that the city would not be able to get otherwise.

In addition, like you had mentioned, the market actually loses about $700,000 a year, and that's money that the city has to fill out of their capital budget.

They will likely continue to subsidize that for some time, but the nonprofit says they expect that to taper off with the new revenue streams they have coming in, like sponsorships, parking, that sort of thing.

(dramatic music) - The Midway Bikeway Project is moving toward a construction start date in 2025.

It calls for building a raised and separated bikeway on Superior Avenue from Public Square to East 55th Street.

Abbey, it really sounds cool.

- Yeah.

Have you seen the renderings?

- [Mike] I have.

- They're pretty neat.

So you have this middle lane.

So when you think about bike lanes, you think about kind of side of the road maybe protected if you're lucky.

But these renderings are really cool because what they do is they take these wide streets, you know, when Cleveland had a larger population and we're thinking about how to use those streets now, and they take the center lane where the streetcar is, they buffer it with landscaping and raise it and you can bike right down the road.

It's pretty cool.

I mean, I love biking, so I'm all for it.

- It's also pretty expensive.

And there have been some even in the bike community, that's said, this is great, but we don't have to spend $24.5 million.

We can do stuff like this even a little bit cheaper.

Cool to see this project though.

Conor, the state lawmaker, Tom Patton tried to derail it, but it's moving forward.

- Yeah, he kind of killed that off earlier this year after there was more than 100, 130 folks that sent letters and also received kind of a guarantee that this will not interrupt the flow of emergency services in the city.

That's what he was worried about for sure.

- And there are businesses there that are worried too.

They've got tractor trailer trucks that need to make turns into their properties and if you've got a big barrier in the middle, it's gonna be difficult to do.

- Yeah.

They also said they're concerned about on-street parking for people.

But like I said, I mean, I'm not indicative of the entire community, but I'm probably more likely on my bike to hop off, go get an ice cream, go do whatever, versus trying to find parking downtown sometimes.

- Excellent point.

Even though it's gonna be a lot easier to pay for your parking apparently.

- True.

Yeah, you don't have to carry around those quarters anymore.

- Yeah, you can do it in your car.

It's a little harder on the bike.

(dramatic music) Monday, on The Sound of Ideas on 89.7 WKSU, we'll bring you Talking Foreign Policy from Case Western Reserve University in conjunction with Idea Stream Public Media.

Michael Scharf leads a discussion on climate change as it intersects with international law and human rights.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks so much for watching, and stay safe.

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