>> THE OHIO GOVERNOR'S RACE GETS PERSONAL, AND WHAT ROLE SHOULD VOTERS HAVE IN REGULATING DATA CENTERS?

> >> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I AM MIKE THOMPSON.

THE RACE FOR OHIO GOVERNOR HAS GOTTEN PERSONAL IN RECENT WEEKS.

REPUBLICAN VIVEK RAMASWAMY IS OUT WITH A NEW AD WHERE HIS WIFE SHOWS OFF THEIR NEW BABY AND IN ANOTHER AD, HE GOES OFF ON DEMOCRAT AMY ACTON FOR HER ROLE IN THE COVID-19 SHUTDOWN.

ACTON THIS WEEK WAS LEFT TO EXPLAIN AN INCIDENT AT HER HOME IN 2019.

NBC WAS FIRST TO REPORT THAT POLICE RESPONDED TO A REPORT OF A DOMESTIC DISPUTE BETWEEN ACTON AND HER HUSBAND.

THE REPORT SAID THE COUPLE HAD A VERBAL ARGUMENT, AND A MIRROR FELL ON THE WALL AND SHATTERED.

THE POLICE REPORT SAID THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF PHYSICAL VIOLENCE, AND NO CHARGES FILED.

ACTON SAID IT WAS AN ARGUMENT OVER HER LONG WORK HOURS.

ACTON'S CAMPAIGN THIS WEEK CRITICIZED RAMASWAMY'S CAMPAIGN FOR MAKING AN ISSUE OF HER SEEKING COUNSELING FOR SEXUAL ABUSE SHE SUFFERED AS A CHILD.

STANLEY GATES, THIS HAS GOTTEN UGLY KIND OF FAST.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

POLITICS IS ALWAYS PERSONAL, BUT THIS HAS GOTTEN PRETTY PERSONAL, PRETTY QUICKLY.

>> YEAH, AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S CRAZY IS, THIS IS REALLY A GOOD THING FOR AMY ACTON IN THE CASE THAT SHE DOESN'T HAVE A PRIMARY OPPONENT, THIS COULD BE MUCH MESSIER IF SHE HAD A PRIMARY OPPONENT AND THEN HAD TO GO TO THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

SO, I THINK WHAT IS HAPPENING IS, THIS IS A PART OF MODERN POLITICS.

HOWEVER, YOU CAN SEE THAT THESE INSULTS ARE BEING THROWN VERY EARLY, WHICH MEANS THERE IS PRESSURE AND I THINK THE VIVEK CAMP IS STARTING TO SEE THAT.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT EARLIER THIS WEEK AND THIS IS KIND OF LIKE THE "ROCKY" MOVIE, WHEN ROCKY FINALLY HITS APOLLO AND APOLLO REALIZES, "THIS IS SOMEBODY I CAN'T MESS WITH," AND I THINK VIVEK IS IN THAT MOMENT RIGHT NOW.

>> SO, THE INCIDENT AT ACTON'S HOUSE, TERRY, WAS SERIOUS ENOUGH THAT POLICE WERE CALLED, SO IT WASN'T NOTHING, BUT HOW BIG OF AN ISSUE SHOULD THAT BE IN THE CAMPAIGN?

>> IT ISN'T GOING TO BE A BIG ISSUE, BUT IT FACES QUESTIONS AS FAR AS THE JUDGMENT OF HER HUSBAND.

TOLD CHANNEL 4 IN COLUMBUS THAT I WAS DRINKING MORE THAN MY WIFE WAS DRINKING, SO SHE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A DRINKING PROBLEM.

BUT, THESE ARE SECONDARY ISSUES.

THE BIG THING IS, BOTH SIDES DO OPPOSITION RESEARCH, THEY LOOK AND SEE WHAT IS MOST SALIENT, IN SOME CASES, THEY TEST IT.

YOU WILL HAVE THESE KIND OF THINGS, SOME WILL BE IMPORTANT, SOME WILL NOT BE IMPORTANT, BUT IF YOU REMEMBER, SHERROD BROWN, WHEN HE TRIED TO GET RE-ELECTED TO SECRETARY OF STATE, HE WAS GOING TO TAKE A TRIP TO JAPAN AND SAYONARA SHERROD BECAME WHAT LOCKED IN, SO IN SOME WAY, THESE PERSONAL ISSUES COULD BECOME AFFECTING AND IMPORTANT.

>> THE COMMONALITY BETWEEN THESE TWO CANDIDATES, JESSIE, THEY ARE NEW TO POLITICS.

I KNOW THAT RAMASWAMY RAN FOR PRESIDENT BRIEFLY, BUT HE HAS BEEN A PRIVATE BUSINESS PERSON, AMY ACTON HAD HER ROLE DURING THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION, BUT THIS IS MOSTLY NEW TO THEM.

HARDBALL POLITICS.

>> TRUE AND I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY WHY YOU ARE SEEING SOME OF THIS, BECAUSE BOTH CANDIDATES ARE TRYING TO DEFINE WHO THEIR OPPONENT IS BEFORE THEIR OPPONENT HAS A CHANCE TO DO IT FOR THEMSELVES.

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU ARE SEEING THIS PRETTY EARLY IN THE RACE, BUT I THINK TO STANLEY'S POINT, IT SHOWS THAT THIS COULD BE A PRETTY COMPETITIVE ONE IN OHIO, PERHAPS EVEN MORE COMPETITIVE THAN I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT LAST YEAR.

>> STANLEY, RAMASWAMY'S CAMPAIGN IS ACCUSING ACTON OF TAKING COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT, WHERE HE SAID THAT ACTON HAS NO VISION, A COMPLAINT ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE ELSE DID TO HER, ACTON SAID, "HE IS MOCKING MY REPORT THAT I SUFFERED SEXUAL ABUSE. "

AND IS THIS GAME BEING PLAYED BOTH WAYS?

>> I THINK WE WILL PLAY IT BOTH WAYS AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST THE START OF IT.

I MEAN, THEY ARE NOT OFFICIALLY CHALLENGERS, OR NOMINEES FOR EACH PARTY AND I GET WILL GET MORE AND MORE MESSY AS WE GO.

>> AND I THINK YOU SUMMARIZED IT WELL.

THINGS BEING TAKEN OUT OF PAUL --CONTEXT IN POLITICS, SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW?

IN REALITY, IF YOU ARE SMART, IF YOU THROW AN ISSUE THAT IS TOO COMPLICATED, TOO CONFUSING, IT ENDS UP GOING NOWHERE, BUT IT IS FINDING THAT THING THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE AND THE BEST THING IS TO REINFORCE SOMETHING WHERE THEY HAVE ALREADY SEEN NEWTON NEWS COVERAGE ABOUT IT.

>> RAMASWAMY DID WRITE A BOOK CALLED "NATION OF VICTIMS," WHERE HE SAYS WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE VICTIM CARD SO IT DOESN'T TAKE A HUGE LEAP TO SAY THAT HE WAS EQUATING HER VICTIMHOOD.

>> RIGHT, BUT SOONER OR LATER, WE WILL SHIFT BACK TO WHAT I THINK WILL BE THE KEY ISSUE, SHE HAS PROPOSED A LOT OF NEW PROGRAMS, THINGS FOR CHILD CARE, THINGS FOR SCHOOLS, MORE FUNDING, BUT IS GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER, WHERE'D YOU GET THE MONEY?

WHERE DOES IT COME FROM?

BOTH CANDIDATES WANT TO TALK ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES, BUT WHERE'D YOU CUT?

WHERE YOU SAVE MONEY?

BUT ULTIMATELY, IT IS THE LAW AND IT IS THE ECONOMY AND TAX, THAT IS WHAT DRIVES VOTERS.

>> SO, THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION.

BY FOCUSING ON THESE SORT OF SALACIOUS, MAYBES, PERSONAL ISSUES, THIS TIT-FOR-TAT STUFF, THAT HURTS AMY ACTON BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO HAMMER AFFORDABILITY AND EVERYTHING, RIGHT?

>> NO, I DO WANT THINK IT DOES, BUT WHAT I DO THINK HURTS IS THAT VOTERS WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE ISSUES, FOLKS DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT PETTY POLITICS.

FOLKS WANT TO UNDERSTAND, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE MY BILLS MORE AFFORDABLE?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE SURE THIS ECONOMY DOESN'T TAKE ME OUT OF THE HOME I HAVE?

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE CARE ABOUT.

PEOPLE DO NOT CARE ABOUT ALL OF THE MESSY AND PETTY POLITICS RIGHT NOW.

>> ONE ISSUE THAT HAS COME UP ON THE CAMPAIGN, JESSIE, AND IT IS A LEGITIMATE ISSUE, THE ROLE THAT AMY ACTON PLAYED IN THE EARLIEST DAYS OF THE COVID SHUTDOWNS.

THE AD BLAMES ACTON FOR CLOSING THE POLLS, OR CANCELING THE ELECTION IN MARCH OF 2020.

GOVERNOR DeWINE CAME TO HER DEFENSE THIS WEEK.

>> YEAH, I THINK THIS WILL BE REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE AMY ACTON SIGNATURE MIGHT BE ON A LOT OF THESE ORDERS THAT WAS MADE IS KIND OF A COLLABORATIVE CONVERSATION WITH GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE, OBVIOUSLY A REPUBLICAN, SAYING THAT "THESE WERE MY POLICIES, MY DECISIONS. "

IN THE CASE OF THE ELECTION, YOU HAVE A SIGN OFF FROM BOTH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY AT THE TIME, YOU HAVE THE SECRETARY OF STATE, ALSO A REPUBLICAN, SAYING, "WE HAVE TO DO THIS FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR CITIZENS. "

SO, BY ATTACKING AMY ACTON ON THIS ISSUE, YOU ARE KIND OF ATTACKING SOME REPUBLICANS, AS WELL.

>> THAT IS THE QUESTION, TERRY, AMY ACTON MADE HER NAME, BECAME VERY HIGH-PROFILE BECAUSE OF COVID.

SHE GOT RAVE REVIEWS FOR MOST PEOPLE.

THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY ON THE FAR RIGHT, THAT DIDN'T WANT ANY SHUTDOWN THAT HATED HER, STILL DO.

BUT, I JUST WONDER HOW THIS PLAYS, GOING FORWARD?

SHE WAS WELL THOUGHT OF, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PANDEMIC START, BUT I MEAN, THIS COULD CUT BOTH WAYS?

>> WELL, CUT GOING BACK TO '21, IN THE SPRING, BETWEEN THE LEGISLATURE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE, IN THE SPRING, SHE WANTED COUNTY FAIRS ACROSS OHIO, AND THE RURAL AREAS WERE WANTING TO REOPEN AND OTHER PEOPLE INCLUDING THE LEGISLATURE SAID, "WAIT A MINUTE, THIS IS A KILLER WEEK, THE FARES ARE OPEN, THEY ARE OUTDOORS, WE CAN CONTINUE BEING SHUT DOWN TOO LONG. "

SO, THAT WAS A TENSION THAT DEVELOPED INCLUDING INVOLVING THE GOVERNOR, WHO WANTED TO REOPEN SOONER THAN WHEN SHE WANTED TO OPEN.

SO, THERE IS THE ISSUE OF, WHEN DID YOU REOPEN?

WHAT DID YOU KEEP CLOSE DOWN?

THAT WILL COME BACK AND BE DISCUSSED MORE.

> >> IN THE RACE FOR U. S. SENATE, FORMER SENATOR AND NOW DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER SHERROD BROWN HAS A BIG LEAD IN FUNDRAISING OVER JON HUSTED.

BROWN RAISED NEARLY $10 MILLION IN THE FIRST THREE MONTHS OF THIS YEAR, MORE THAN TRIPLE THE AMOUNT RAISED BY JON HUSTED.

BROWN HAS 16 1/2 MILLION DOLLARS ON HAND, WHICH IS DOUBLE WHAT HUSTED'S CAMPAIGN HAS.

HUSTED, HOWEVER, HAS GOTTEN PROMISES FROM THE NATIONAL GOP SENATE CAMPAIGN ORGANIZATION THAT IT WILL SPEND UP TO $80 MILLION TO HELP THE REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT.

TERRY CASEY, WHY IS JON HUSTED HAVING A HARD TIME RAISING MONEY OR KEEPING UP WITH SHERROD BROWN?

>> WELL, SHERROD BROWN HAS A NATIONAL BASE INCLUDING CALIFORNIA, THE EAST COAST, AND EVERYWHERE ON HIS LIST BECAUSE I THINK HE RAISED OR PUT TOGETHER ABOUT A QUARTER BILLION DOLLARS WHEN HE RAN IN '24.

SO, IT IS NATURAL HE WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE.

BUT ULTIMATELY, THEY ARE BOTH GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING TO WATCH IN THIS SENATE RACE, IS JON HUSTED IS ALMOST PITCHING HIMSELF AS THE CHALLENGER, THE OUTSIDER. "

I HAVEN'T BEEN IN D. C. FOR THREE OR FOUR DECADES, I AM THE NEW GUY. "

AND RIGHT NOW, AGAINST REPUBLICANS ARE NOT HAPPY WITH INCUMBENT OFFICEHOLDERS AND WANT A CHANGE, SO WATCHING THAT CHALLENGER VERSUS INCUMBENT POSITIONING I THINK WILL BE THE KEY THING IN THIS RACE.

>> BUT, STANLEY, SHERROD BROWN IS TYING JON HUSTED TO DONALD TRUMP AND DONALD TRUMP'S POLICIES IN IRAN, WHICH HAVE LED TO HIGHER GAS PRICES AND TERRACE WHICH HAVE LED TO HIGHER PRICES IN OTHER AREAS.

>> I THINK THAT IS WHAT HIM AND ALSO AMY ACTON --I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE A WAVE OF FOLKS, A BLUE WAVE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF WHAT THEY ARE SEEING IN WASHINGTON AND I THINK SHERROD IS PLAYING ON THAT, PLAYING ON IT VERY WELL AND THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN GET AWAY FROM.

HE IS MAKING A STATEMENT WITH THE FUNDRAISING DOLLARS AND I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE, TO TERRY'S POINT, A LOT MORE DOLLARS COMING TO THIS RACE.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT JUST ENDS.

WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN APRIL, IN OCTOBER, WE WILL SEE MUCH MORE OF THIS GAP CLOSING.

>> JON HUSTED FACES THE SAME HEADWINDS THAT A LOT OF REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATES -- LOOKING AROUND THE COUNTRY, JON CORNYN IN TEXAS ' RACE, TO AND HAVE MILLIONS -- ESTABLISH REPUBLICAN INCUMBENTS, THEY ARE STILL LACKING DEMOCRATS IN THE FUNDRAISING.

>> WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT JON HUSTED IS DESPITE BEING IN POLITICS FOR DECADES IN OHIO, HE HAS BEEN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, SECRETARY OF STATE, FORMER OHIO HOUSE SPEAKER, HE IS NOT MAYBE A NAMED THE AVERAGE OHIO AND HAS HEARD OF.

THESE ARE NOT POSITIONS YOU ARE HEARING ON THE HEADLINES EVERY DAY.

YOU ARE KIND OF NUMBER 22 MIKE DeWINE FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.

AND SO, BEING ABLE TO DEFINE HIMSELF ONCE AGAIN, WHETHER THAT BE TYING HIMSELF TO TRUMP AND TRUMP'S POLICIES, OR TO HIS OWN PERSON, HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF A BIT TO THE OHIO VOTER.

>> THAT WAS THE QUESTION I HAD FOR YOU, TERRY.

DOES JON HUSTED HAVE A ROB PORTLAND PROBLEM?

CAPABLE POLITICIAN, LONG CAREER, BUT THE AVERAGE PERSON --IS NOT THE MOST EXCITING GUY --AVERAGE PERSON DOESN'T KNOW WHO HE IS.

>> WELL, THERE WILL BE A CONTRAST WITH A NEWER/YOUNGER FRESHER FACE, AND THE GUY THAT WAS THERE FOREVER.

AND AGAIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ITCHING FOR SOME CHANGE AND ON THE WHOLE TRUMP THING, OBVIOUSLY, THE GOOD NEWS FOR JON HUSTED AND REPUBLICANS IS THE ELECTION IS NOT IN EARLY MAY, IT IS 6 1/2 MONTHS AWAY.

AND IN TODAY'S NEWS CYCLE, TODAY'S POLITICAL CYCLE, THINGS CAN CHANGE DRAMATICALLY IN A MONTH, BUT 6 1/2 MONTHS IS AN ETERNITY.

>> SO, THAT IS A QUESTION FOR YOU, JESSIE, SHERROD BROWN HAS A SHERROD BROWN PROBLEM IN PEOPLE KNOW HIM VERY WELL, HE HAS BEEN HERE A LONG TIME, HE IS NOT THE FRESHFACED, IS COMING OFF A LOSS, HARD TO BOUNCE BACK FROM THAT.

HOW DOES HE OVERCOME THAT?

>> I THINK HE OVERCOMES IT PRETTY WELL.

I THINK TWO YEARS AGO WAS PRETTY UNIQUE IN THE FACT TRUMP WAS AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET, I THINK HE HAS A UNIQUE ADVANTAGE RIGHT NOW, BE IT SIX MONTHS LATER, BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, HE HAS AN ADVANTAGE.

ONE THING THAT I THINK IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF IS HE RAN TWO YEARS AGO, HE IS RUNNING NOW AND IF HE WINS, HE WILL BE RUNNING AGAIN IN TWO MORE YEARS, SO THAT WILL BE UNDER ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, SO WE WILL SEE HOW TOUGH HE IS, BUT SHERROD IS THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN BATTLE TESTED THROUGH HIS FAITH.

> >> IT IS A LONGSHOT, BUT VOTERS COULD HAVE THE CHANCE TO BAN LARGE DATA CENTERS IN OHIO.

A GROUP LOOKING TO BAN THEM IS COLLECTING SIGNATURES.

IT IS VERY MUCH A VOLUNTEER GRASSROOTS GROUP THAT MUST COLLECT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SIGNATURES BY JULY TO GET ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT.

BUT, IT'S OUT THERE.

MANY PEOPLE REMAIN WARY OF DATA CENTERS AND THEIR IMPACT ON FARMLAND, ELECTRIC SUPPLIES, GOVERNOR DeWINE SAID THIS WEEK THAT STATE LAWMAKERS --NOT VOTERS --SHOULD BE THE ONES TO WRITE THE RULES AND RESTRICTIONS ON DATA CENTERS.

HE SAID, "THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A LEGISLATURE. "

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, JESSIE, HOW MUCH IS THE LEGISLATURE CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO REGULATE DATA CENTERS?

>> I THINK DATA CENTERS HAS BEEN SUCH A FASCINATING ISSUE POLITICALLY BECAUSE IT JUST DOESN'T CUT ALONG TRADITIONAL LINES.

YOU HAVE SOME REPUBLICANS WHO LENT --WANT THESE THINGS BECAUSE OF THE GROWTH OF BUSINESS, THEY WANT TO ATTRACT THOSE BUSINESSES TO THE STATE.

YOU HAVE OTHER REPUBLICANS WHO HATE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE VOTERS IN THE RURAL AREAS ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THEM POPPING UP AND NOT GETTING ANY SORT OF TAX BENEFIT FOR THE AREA.

AND THE OTHER SIDE, YOU HAVE THE DEMOCRATS WHO THINK BUILDING DATA CENTERS IS UNION JOBS, SO IT IS VERY HARD FOR DEMOCRATS TO SAY, "NO, NO, WE DON'T WANT UNION JOBS IN OHIO. "

AND ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS, OR IN MY BACKYARD CONCERNS, SO YOU ARE NOT SEEING --YOU KNOW, REGULAR POLITICS ON THIS ISSUE.

>> SO, WHAT ARE THE LAWMAKERS GOING TO DO, TERRY?

>> WELL, THE LAWMAKERS DID PASS --AND THE GOVERNOR DID VETO -- ONE OF THE SALES TAX CHOICES.

SO, THERE ARE SOME DIVISIONS AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE THAT IS GOING TO GROW BIGGER AND BIGGER AND YOU WILL FIND OUT FROM THE CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR, IF THEY ARE SMART, THEY ARE GOING TO SAY, "THEY NEED TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE. "

BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF TAX BREAKS THEY HAVE GOT AND THE OTHER ADVANTAGES THEY HAVE HAD, IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TIGHTENED DOWN.

THE OTHER GOOD NEWS, AS I SAID A NUMBER OF MONTHS AGO, MORE AND MORE OF THESE PLANTS --AND WE ARE WATCHING THE BIG PYTHON PLANT DOWN THERE, $33 BILLION --IT IS GOING TO GENERATE MORE ENERGY, SO SOME OF THESE ISSUES WILL BE SOLVED, BUT STILL IT IS A BIG ISSUE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SO FEW JOBS COME OUT OF SOMETHING SO BIG.

BUT AGAIN, CONSTRUCTION UNIONS WANT IT BECAUSE IT IS BIG EMPLOYMENT FOR THEM.

>> AND I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE AT THIS POINT HAVE COME TO A STANCE OR PLATFORM ON IT.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO DEVELOP IT.

THE HOUSE DID PASS A BILL TO BE ABLE TO DO --COMMISSION A STUDY, SO WE WILL SEE WHAT COMES OUT OF THAT.

THE SENATE WILL PROBABLY TAKE ACTION SOMETIME BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR, BUT I THINK THAT'S ALSO WHY VOTERS ARE PUSHING THE BALLOT INITIATIVE.

PEOPLE WANT TO SEE SOMETHING HAPPEN QUICKER THAN WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING, AND DON'T REALLY HAVE TIME FOR A STUDY.

>> JESSIE, LAWMAKERS HAVE SORT OF GOTTEN IN THE WAY OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS' APPROVAL OF THESE PROJECTS.

FRACKING, FOR INSTANCE, LOCAL COMMUNITIES COULD NOT STOP A FRACKING OPERATION.

IF YOU WANT TO PUT A FRACKING OPERATION IN DOWNTOWN DUBLIN, DUBLIN CANNOT STOP IT, ACCORDING TO STATE LAW, BUT IT CAN STOP A WIND FARM FROM ENTERING A LOCAL COMMUNITY.

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT THE STATE LAWMAKERS MAKE --MIGHT WEIGH IN ON WHAT THESE COMMUNITIES CAN AND CAN'T DO WITH THESE DATA CENTERS?

>> ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING, I'M LOOKING AT IT, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF LAWMAKERS WHO WANTED TO BAN NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS RELATED TO DATA CENTERS AND OTHER LARGE PROJECTS BECAUSE YOU ARE GETTING INTO SITUATIONS WHERE THE MAYOR IS AGREEING TO SOMETHING THAT CAN'T EVEN TALK TO CITY COUNCIL ABOUT IT.

THESE ARE PUBLIC OFFICIALS PAID FOR BY PUBLIC TAX DOLLARS SO THERE IS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE SECRECY SURROUNDING THESE PROJECTS, SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING IF THAT GETS SOME SORT OF MOVEMENT IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> ARE WE BEING TOO HARD ON DATA CENTERS, TERRY?

I MEAN, THERE ARE JOBS, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CONSTRUCTION JOBS.

THEY ARE RELATIVELY CLEAN.

THEY DON'T LAST 50 YEARS, WHEN THEY DO GO AWAY, THEY WILL NOT HAVE CONTAMINANTS, AT LEAST NOT AS MUCH AS A STEEL FACTORY OR A CHEMICAL PLANT WOULD HAVE.

>> IN THE PAST, WE USED TO BE, LIKE WITH HONDA, 5000 JOBS OR 3000 JOBS.

AND WHEN YOU TALK TO THE MAYOR OF NEW ALBANY AND YOU SAY, "YOU ARE GIVING THEM A TAX BREAK ON THREE QUARTERS OF $1 BILLION ON AN ASSET, NOT PAYING PROPERTY TAXES, BUT THEY ONLY EMPLOY 75 PEOPLE, WHERE IS THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS? "

THERE ARE COUNTER ARGUMENTS, BUT AGAIN, I THINK THE PREDICTION THAT THERE WILL BE A TIGHTENING FULLY WILL HAPPEN.

IT IS JUST GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME, AS WE CATCH UP TO THIS.

>> WE SAW SOME VERY SAID, NO DATA CENTERS, AT LEAST UNTIL THE END OF NEXT YEAR, '27.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE OF THAT, WHERE SOME COMMUNITIES -- LET'S FACE IT, MORE WEALTHY COMMUNITIES, PERHAPS MORE RURAL COMMUNITIES --SAY, NO DATA CENTERS.

THEN, THEY ARE FORCED INTO COMMUNITIES THAT MIGHT BE MORE DESPERATE FOR THAT KIND OF -- EVEN THE SHORT-TERM CONSTRUCTION JOBS?

>> I THINK WE ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO SEE THAT, WE ARE SEEING THAT NOW AND THAT IS ALSO WHY THE LEGISLATORS ARE GETTING THIS QUESTION.

BECAUSE LOCAL COMMUNITIES ARE TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT, TO YOUR POINT, THOSE THAT ARE MORE AFFLUENT ARE MAKING IT VERY CLEAR, BUT THEN THERE ARE SOME THAT ACTUALLY NEED THAT TAX REVENUE AND ALSO THE JOBS, IN PARTICULAR.

>> IS THERE EVIDENCE THESE CENTERS CREATE OTHER JOBS?

I KNOW THE CENTERS THEMSELVES ONLY EMPLOY A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE, BUT MAYBE ANOTHER TECH COMPANY MOVES NEXT DOOR?

>> THAT IS ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS NEW ALBANY WILL .

2.

NEW ALBANY WAS FORTUNATE, ALL THESE DATA CENTERS WERE DONE EAST OF WHERE THE POPULATION IS, WITH A GOOD BIT OF SEPARATION.

BUT, THAT IS THE ARGUMENT, OF THE NEW ALBANY MAYOR, THAT IT ATTRACTS IN A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT, SUPPLY, DO OPERATIONS IN CONNECTION WITH THESE.

SO, THERE IS A GOOD ARGUMENT, AND ALSO, ARE YOU GOING TO BE POSITIONED FOR THE FUTURE?

BECAUSE DATA AND TECHNOLOGY IS TOMORROW'S JOBS, AND IF YOU AREN'T POSITIONED, IF YOU JUST TURN YOUR BACK ON IT, YOUR STATE IS GOING TO BE IN BAD SHAPE.

> >> ALL RIGHT, IF GOVERNOR DeWINE IS GOING TO GO BOLD IN HIS FINAL MONTHS OF OFFICE, SOME OF THE STATEHOUSE SPECULATED WILL INVOLVE THE DEATH PENALTY.

DeWINE, AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR AND A SOUTH OHIO LAWMAKER, ONCE STRONGLY SUPPORTED CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IN OHIO.

NOW, AS GOVERNOR, FOR NEARLY EIGHT YEARS, NO ONE ON DEATH ROW HAS BEEN EXECUTED.

NO ONE EXECUTED DURING HIS TERMS AT AS GOVERNOR.

DeWINE BLAMES THE INABILITY TO GET LETHAL INJECTION DRUGS, BUT CLEARLY, DeWINE HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE STATE PUTTING SOMEONE TO DEATH.

HE TOLD REPORTERS, HE WILL UPDATE US ON HIS PERSONAL VIEW ON THE ISSUE AFTER THE MAY PRIMARY ELECTION.

JESSIE, ANY IDEA WHAT HE IS GOING TO SAY, WHEN HE LETS US KNOW HOW HE FEELS ABOUT THIS ISSUE RIGHT NOW?

>> I MEAN, IF I COULD BUST OUT MY TRUTH SERUM FOR THE GOVERNOR RIGHT NOW, I SUSPECT HE IS MUCH LESS SUPPORTIVE OF THE DEATH PENALTY THAN HE PREVIOUSLY WAS AS EITHER A COUNTY PROSECUTOR OR OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHERE HE INVESTIGATED SOME PRETTY HORRIFIC CRIMES, INCLUDING, LIKE, MASSACRE IN PIKE COUNTY WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, PRETTY -- MADE HEADLINES INTERNATIONALLY.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW BOLD IS HE GOING TO BE?

IS HE JUST GOING TO STATE HIS POSITION?

IS HE GOING TO TAKE SOME SORT OF ACTION?

IS HE GOING TO ASK LAWMAKERS TO ACT ON THIS?

AND IF HE DOES, WILL LAWMAKERS BE RECEPTIVE TO IT?

>> WHY IS HE WAITING, TERRY, UNTIL AFTER THE MAY PRIMARY?

IT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE.

>> HE DIDN'T WANT TO STIR THE ISSUE UP FOR SOME PEOPLE IN SOME PRIMARIES FOR LEGISLATURE.

BUT, ON THIS ISSUE, MY SON DID A REPORT BACK WHEN HE WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND INTERVIEWED EAST STRATTON ON THE HIGHS UP IN COURT, SHE SUMMARIZED THIS ISSUE VERY WELL, IT'S A CLASSIC QUESTION OF, DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT OR DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT?

AND I THINK MIKE DeWINE IS MUCH MORE ON THE NEW TESTAMENT SIDE.

THE PROBLEM HE HAS GOT IS MATT HUFFMAN, THE HOUSE SPEAKER, SUMMARIZED HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN REMOVING THE DEATH PENALTY FROM THE BOOKS OF OHIO AND THERE IS A LOT OF PROSECUTORS, LIKE RON O'BRIEN, WHEN HE WAS PROSECUTOR, WILL TELL YOU IT HELPS GET SOME DEALS ON SOME CASES AND ALSO, HOW DO YOU PROTECT POLICE OFFICERS, PRISON GUARDS, PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY UNDER LIFE SENTENCES FOR DOING FREE KILLINGS, IF THERE IS NOT ADDITIONAL PENALTY?

>> THE FACT THAT HE IS WAITING UNTIL AFTER THE PRIMARY MEANS THERE ARE SOME REPUBLICANS WHO ARE WAVERING, SO WHAT DOES PASS THE LEGISLATURE IF HE WERE TO CALL FOR A BAN?

IS THAT WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE HOPING, OR OPPONENTS?

>> I THINK SO.

FOLKS ARE WAITING AT THIS POINT AND HAVE BEEN WAITING.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS SAID HE IS GOING TO COME OUT WITH THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE WAITING AND WANTING HIM TO TAKE ACTION.

I KNOW FOLKS WERE DEFINITELY LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN AT HIS STATE OF THE STATE.

THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A BOLD ANNOUNCEMENT AND THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IMMIGRANTS IN PARTICULAR ARE WAITING AND TRYING TO SEE IF HE IS GOING TO BE BOLD IN THESE LAST FEW MONTHS OF HIS TERM.

OR, COMMUTE SENTENCES AND TAKE A STAND.

>> JESSIE, COULD HE SAID, "I SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY, BUT ONLY FOR THESE RAVE VERY RARE CASES WHERE YOU KILL A POLICE OFFICER? "

OR --IT WILL BE HARD TO DIFFERENTIATE ESPECIALLY WHEN A LOT OF FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF VERY SERIOUS, TERRIBLE CRIMES, ARE LATER EXONERATED.

I MEAN, IT'S ALL OR NOTHING, RIGHT?

EITHER YOU SUPPORT, OR YOU DON'T.

>> HE IS THE GOVERNOR, HE CAN TAKE ANY STENTS HE WANTS TO ON THIS.

BUT, TO YOUR POINT, YOU GET INTO A BIT OF AN ETHICAL DILEMMA.

LIKE, IS ONE KILLING ACCEPTABLE, OR WORSE THAN ANOTHER KILLING?

IS IT WORSE IF YOU KILL THIS TYPE OF PROFESSION VERSUS THIS OTHER TYPE OF PROFESSION?

THAT'S WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE DICEY.

>> I HAVE DONE FOCUS GROUPS ON THIS ISSUE, AND WHEN YOU ASK PEOPLE EVEN WHO ARE OPPOSED TO CAPITAL PUNISHMENT ABOUT CHILD KILLERS AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY FAR EXTREME, AND GOT PRISON GUARDS, POLICE OFFICERS, EVEN PEOPLE OPPOSED TO CAPITAL PUNISHMENT LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY, SO THERE ARE A LOT OF SHADES TO THIS ISSUE.

BUT, AGAIN, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS NOT IN A HURRY TO DO ANYTHING.

>> JESSIE, HE IS TAKING FLAK FROM OTHER OFFICIALS, MAINLY DAVID YOST, WHO SAYS IT IS A MOCKERY THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY EXECUTIONS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, WHETHER IT IS A LETHAL INJECTION DRUG SHORTAGE, OR MIKE DEWINE'S UNWILLINGNESS TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE.

>> WE HAVE BEEN IN LIMBO ON THIS ISSUE FOR THE ENTIRE OF MIKE DEWINE'S GOVERNORSHIP.

SO, IF HE SUPPORTS CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, IT IS ON THE BOOKS, IT IS A LAW IN OHIO AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO GET ON WITH IT.

IF YOU ARE OPPOSED, YOU ARE LIKE, "WELL, LET'S JUST GET RID OF IT ENTIRELY. "

WE ARE KIND OF SITTING IN THE MIDDLE RIGHT NOW.

>> ONE THING THAT I DO THINK IS TO BRING TO THE TABLE, THOUGH, HOW DOES YOUR LEGACY LOOK IF YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN COME OUT AND SAY YOU ARE PRO-CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, WHILE THESE FOLKS HAVE BEEN SITTING FOR SEVERAL YEARS, HOW DOES THAT LOOK?

I THINK THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT GOVERNOR DeWINE NEEDS TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.

>> AND FOR THE NEXT GOVERNOR, THE WAY THE TABLE IS SET UP RIGHT NOW, IT COULD BE, WHOEVER IS THE NEW GOVERNOR IS GOING TO HAVE ALMOST EVERY MONTH, MONTH AFTER MONTH, EXECUTIONS SCHEDULED.

AND THEN, THERE IS THE WHOLE QUESTION OF GETTING THE PHARMACY MEDICINE IN ORDER TO DO THE IMPLEMENTATION POINT >> THEY WON'T HAVE MONTH AFTER MONTH OF EXECUTIONS, TERRY, IF GOVERNOR DeWINE COMMUTES ALL THE SENTENCES TO LIFE IN PRISON.

WHAT ARE THE ODDS IN YOUR MIND OF THAT?

>> I WOULD SAY SLIM TO NONE.

IT HUNG AROUND AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE THAT.

SO -- >> HE'S NOT GOING TO BE GOVERNOR ANYMORE.

DOES HE CARE ABOUT -- >> HE HAS A SON ON THE OHIO SUPREME COURT AND HE IS VERY CONCERNED AND INTERESTED ABOUT HIS LEGACY, SO I THINK HE IS A VERY MAJOR PERSON.

I THINK WHAT HE WILL DO, HE WILL SAY HIS OPINION, BUT I THINK IT WILL BE NARROWLY FOCUSED.

>> HOW ABOUT OTHER ALTERNATIVE METHODS, WHAT HE PROPOSE THAT?

SAYING, "WE SHOULD BRING BACK THE GAS CHAMBER, OR THE FIRING SQUAD. "

>> THE FIRING SQUAD?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

BUT, MAYBE HE DOES DO WHAT YOU SUGGESTED, AND HE MIGHT DO IT BASED ON THE CRIME AND LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.

>> MAYBE, MULTIPLE KILLINGS, NO, BUT ONE MURDER, YES.

I MEAN, AS YOU SAID, IT'S AN ETHICAL DILEMMA.

WHAT CRIME IS WORTH MORE THAN ANOTHER CRIME!

TIME NOW FOR OUR OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

STANLEY GATES, YOU ARE FIRST.

>> IT HAS BEEN ALMOST A YEAR SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON THE SHOW, SO I AM HAPPY TO BE HERE AND GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

SHOUT OUT TO MY MENTOR, DEREK RAY.

>> HE RECOMMENDED YOU, WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

TERRY?

>> GOOD NEWS FOR OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY IS PROBABLY NEXT WEEK'S NFL DRAFT, FOUR OF THE TOP 10 WILL COME FROM OHIO STATE, BUT THE BAD NEWS WAS THIS WEEK, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" DID A VERY DEEP DIVE INTO OHIO STATE AND SAID IT HAS A FEW PROBLEMS AS THEY WENT THROUGH THE TURNOVER AND PRESIDENT'S, THE VARIOUS LEGAL DISPUTES, ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS HAPPENING ON CAMPUS, BUT IT IS INTERESTING TO READ, IT IS NOT NEW TO US, BUT NEW TO A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

JESSIE?

>> THIS WEEK, I TOOK A FUN LOOK AT THE MORE THAN 200 DAYS, MONTHS, AND WEEKS OF COMMEMORATION IN THIS STATE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, HAPPY SUPERMAN DAY, OR RASCAL FLATS DAY, TO THOSE WHO CELEBRATE.

>> [ LAUGHTER ] YOU KNOW, MARCH IS REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE MONTH.

IT MAKES YOU WONDER.

MY OFF THE RECORD COMMENT IS, ON MONDAY, WE START A MONTH- LONG PROJECT HERE, IT IS CALLED INSIDE, RESHAPING WORK.

WE WILL LOOK AT THE CHANGING ECONOMY, ALL THE THINGS WE ARE FACING, A. I. , SKILLED WORKFORCE DEMAND, THE ROLE OF IMMIGRANTS IN OUR WORKFORCE.

AMY JURAVICH WILL HAVE A SHOW MONDAY AT 11:00 AND IT WILL CULMINATE WITH A TOWN HALL MEETING IN THE STUDIO, COMING UP IN EARLY TO MID MAY, SO KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THAT AND YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THAT ON OUR WEBSITE AT A WEBSITE CALLED WOSU.

ORG/INSIDE THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

AS A REMINDER, YOU CAN CHECK OUT THE WOSU YOUTUBE CHANNEL, OUR CHANNEL THERE, YOU CAN SEE AND SHARE EVERY EPISODE OF THIS PROGRAM.

LOTS MORE STUFF FROM WOSU NEWS.

GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEARCH "WOSU NEWS. "

YOU CAN ALSO WATCH US ANY TIME WITH OUR APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I AM MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.