>>> IT LOOKS LIKE AN AUGUST SPECIAL ELECTION IS BACK IN PLAY.

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M ANN FISHER SITTING IN FOR MIKE THOMPSON THIS WEEK.

LAST WEEK HOUSE SPEAKER JASON STEPHENS SAID HE HAD NO INTEREST IN AN AUGUST ELECTION ON WHETHER TO REQUIRE A 60% VOTE MARGIN TO CHANGE THE OHIO CONSTITUTION.

THIS WEEK, HE SAID IT'S A POSSIBILITY IF LAWMAKERS WANT IT.

THE OHIO SENATE WANTS IT.

AND HOUSE RULES COULD CIRCUMVENT STEPHEN'S OPPOSITION.

THE AUGUST VOTE IS DESIGNED TO TRY TO THWART A POSSIBLE NOVEMBER AMENDMENT TO ENSHRINE ABORTION RIGHTS IN THE CONSTITUTION.

OH, AND ONE MORE THING.

AS OF APRIL 7TH, AUGUST ELECTIONS ARE LARGELY ILLEGAL THANKS TO A LAW PASSED JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO.

BY THE OHIO GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

JESSIE BALMERT, WHAT APPEARED TO INFLUENCE A CHANGE IN SPEAKER STEPHENS' HEART ON THIS ISSUE?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE CHANGE WAS INTERESTING.

IT WAS SLIGHT BUT IMPORTANT.

HE WENT FROM NO, NO, THIS ISN'T HAPPENING TO, I DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA, LIKE I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF SPENDING POTENTIALLY $20 MILLION ON AN AUGUST ELECTION AFTER WE JUST SAID WE LARGELY DON'T LIKE THESE TYPES OF ELECTIONS.

BUT HE'S OPEN TO THE POSSIBILITY.

HE'S OPEN TO BEING CONVINCED.

I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF LOBBYING ON BEHALF OF THE GROUPS THAT SUPPORT THIS CHANGE TO THE CONSTITUTION TO MAKE IT HARDER TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION, AND SO HE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE IN HIS EAR, BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH VOTE BECAUSE IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, YOU WOULD NEED TO GET A HIGHER THRESHOLD, NOT JUST 50%.

IN THE HOUSE, YOU WOULD NEED 60 MEMBERS.

>> THIS IDEA TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION OR NOT CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION, WHATEVER IT IS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONSTITUTION PER SE BUT MORE ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE COULD DO WITH THE CONSTITUTION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S PEOPLE THAT LOVE AND HATE THE IDEA OF A 60% VOTE BEING REQUIRED.

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM FOR THE SPEAKER IS MATHEMATICS.

THERE'S TWO VACANCIES IN THE OHIO HOUSE.

SO OF THE 65 SEATS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET 60 OR MORE VOTES, AND THERE'S A DECENT CHUNK TO GET IT ON THE BALLOT AS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, BUT THERE'S 8 TO 12 REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE STATE LEGISLATURES WORRIED THAT IF YOU ESTABLISH THE 60% THRESHOLD, THERE MIGHT BE SOME BILLS IN THE FUTURE THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO GET PAST, INCLUDING FIXING THE AFFORDABLE CARE AMENDMENT PASSED BY OHIO VOTERS SEVERAL YEARS BACK AND HOW THAT MIGHT BE IMPACTED BY A WYOMING COURT DECISION.

CAN THE REPUBLICANS GET 60 OR MORE VOTES IN ORDER TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT, AND THERE'S THE COMPLICATION OF DO THEY HAVE TO DO THE STATE LEGISLATION TO MAKE IT A SPECIAL AGAIN, COULD THAT BE VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR.

>> COMPLICATION IS THE KEY WORD NEAR.

JOE MAS.

>> IT KIND OF STINKS.

WHAT ABOUT IF -- OKAY, ALLOW THE AUGUST ELECTION FOR THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, BUT YOU REQUIRE THAT TO BE 60%.

I SAY THAT TONGUE AND CHEEK, BECAUSE I REALIZE THE RULES DON'T ALLOW FOR THAT.

BUT IF WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER, AND WE MIND SEE IN THE FUTURE AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE THE SAME RULE IN ORDER TO BLOCK SOMETHING, INCLUDING AN AMENDMENT TO PERHAPS ROLL BACK A RIGHT TO CHOOSE AMENDMENT.

>> AND, JOE, IT'S A FOLLOWUP TO THAT WOULD BE IF THEY FILE IN EARLY JULY, THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WITH ALL THE SIGNATURES, DO THEY OPERATE IN JULY, OR IF THE RULES ARE CHANGED IN AUGUST, WHICH TAKES PRECEDENT OVER WHO FILED FIRST OR WHAT PASSED LAST.

THESE ARE ALL ISSUES THAT COULD GO TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

>> IF YOU'RE STILL WITH US, I WANT TO ASK JESSIE BALMERT.

THE GROUPS WHO SUPPORT THIS CHANGE TO MAKE IT HARDER TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION, WHO ARE THOSE GROUPS?

>> YEAH.

SO OBVIOUSLY OPPONENTS OF THIS ABORTION AMENDMENT ARE GROUPS LIKE OHIO RIGHT TO LIFE OR CITIZENS FOR CHRISTIAN VIRTUE HAVE BEEN VERY VOCAL ABOUT IT.

WE'RE ALSO HEARING FROM OTHER GROUPS LIKE BUCK EYE FIREARMS ASSOCIATION, GUN ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT POTENTIAL FUTURE LEGISLATION ON MAYBE GUN CONTROL FOR EXAMPLE.

SO ANYONE WHO IS CONCERNED THAT A GROUP OF CITIZENS WHO DON'T LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE OHIO LEGISLATURE WOULD LIKE TO DO SOMETHING ELSE AND AMEND IT IN THE CONSTITUTION RATHER THAN GOING TO THEIR STATE REPRESENTATIVES IS JUST A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT THIS 50% AMENDMENT THING.

>> ANOTHER ISSUE, REDISTRICTS COULD GO ON THE BALLOT EVENTUALLY.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE OHIO GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT'S CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICANS, THE REPUBLICANS LARGELY OPPOSE SOMETHING LIKE THAT AT THIS POINT.

>> EXACTLY.

AND THAT IT'S LIKELY TO GO BACK UP BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS EFFORTS HAVEN'T REALLY PANNED OUT.

>> SO THESE ARE ALL THE ISSUES, ABORTION RIGHTS, REDISTRICTS -- >> MARIJUANA.

>> -- MARIJUANA, LEGALIZATION -- >> MINIMUM WAGE.

>> -- MINIMUM WAGE.

ALL THESE THINGS WOULD BE HARD TO PASS ON THE STATE WHITE BALLOT IF THIS MEASURE WERE TO GO ON THE BALLOT IN AUGUST AND PASS.

>> AND I MIGHT MAKE AN EARLY PREDICTION.

THERE'S A THING CALLED ROCKY ROAD THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD ICE CREAM, BUT ALL THESE LEGAL QUESTIONS, CONSTITUTIONAL, IT'S KIND OF ROCKY ROAD RIGHT THERE TOO, AND THAT'S NOT AS TASTY AS THE ICE CREAM.

>> OKAY.

SO IF YOU WANT TO VOTE IN AN UPCOMING ELECTION, YOU WILL NEED A PHOTO ID TO PROVE YOUR IDENTITY.

OHIO'S NEW VOTER PHOTO ID LAW GOES INTO EFFECT APRIL 7TH.

THAT MEANS YOU CAN'T JUST USE A UTILITY BILL OR A MORTGAGE STATEMENT TO PROVE YOUR IDENTITY.

YOU NEED AN OHIO ISSUED PHOTO ID.

YOU CAN USE YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE OR AN OFFICIAL STATE ID, WHICH YOU CAN GET FOR FREE AT A BUREAU OF MOTOR VEHICLES OFFICE.

YOU CAN ALSO USE A PASSPORT.

DETROK TAR -- DETRACTORS OF THIS NEW LAW SAY IT WILL KEEP MANY PEOPLE IN MARGINALIZED GROUPS FROM VOTING.

SUPPORTERS OF THE NEW LAW SAY IT WILL PREVENT VOTER FRAUD.

BUT VOTER IMPERSONATION IS VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT.

THE CONSERVATIVE HERITAGE FOUNDATION REPORTS ONLY 26 CONVICTIONS FOR VOTER IMPERSONATION IN THE COUNTRY OVER THE PAST 18 YEARS.

SO, CASEY, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF INDICATION HOW THIS COULD HINDER COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO LIVE HERE MOST OF THE YEAR BUT ARE LICENSED IN ANOTHER STATE.

>> YOU MEAN THOSE STUDENTS WHOSE PARENTS CLAIM THEM AS RESIDENTS OF THEIR HOME IN JERSEY OR MASSACHUSETTS.

90% OF THE PEOPLE IN OHIO HAVE PHOTO ID, AND 70% PLUS, EVEN CNN AND PR POLLING SHOWS PEOPLE SUPPORT PHOTO ID, AND THEY'RE WORKING ON THINGS LIKE THE AMMISH POPULATION, THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE RELIGIOUSLY THEIR PHOTO TAKEN, SO THEY'RE WORKING ON AN ALTERNATIVE FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE RELIGIOUS OBJECTIONS.

AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE, THERE WILL BE A WAY TO GET IT THROUGH THE DMV.

98% PLUS ALREADY HAVE IT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S AS BIG A PROBLEM AS PEOPLE WANT TO CLAIM.

>> UNLESS YOU'RE AMONG THE 2%?

>> WELL, THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.

I HAVE BEEN AN OBSERVER AT A NUMBER OF ELECTIONS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DO SEE ARE PEOPLE THAT COME IN, AND THEY ARE CONFUSED BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THEY HEARD ON THE NEWS.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THEY MIGHT HEAR WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, ON SUNDAY MORNING, THEY MIGHT HEAR ANOTHER PROGRAM THAT IS REPORTING ON THE GEORGIA LAW OR NEW HAMPSHIRE LAW, AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT, THEY GET EASILY CONFUSED, AND I REMEMBER IN ONE INSTANCE THAT WE TOLD THIS VERY NICE LADY -- I DIDN'T TELL HER, THE WORKER TOLD THE LADY, JUST GO BACK AND BRING US A UTILITY BILL, AND SHE SAID, IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE.

I'LL JUST SKIP IT.

HOW MANY TIMES IS THAT HAPPENING?

>> WELL, AND BY THE WAY, JESSIE BALMERT, RIGHT, THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT CHANGED ABOUT VOTING AS WELL ABOUT IF THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR VOTE, THEY HAVE FEWER DAYS TO RESOLVE ANY CONFLICTS, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

I BELIEVE THEY WERE LIKE A NUMBER OF OTHER CHANGES THAT WERE PART OF THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND SO WE'LL SEE THE PRACTICAL IMPACTS OF THAT PLAYING OUT.

I DO THINK FOR LIKE YOUR AVERAGE VIEWER, THE BIGGEST QUESTION IS DO YOU HAVE A PHOTO ID, AND TO TERRY'S POINT, THEY ARE GOING TO BE OFFERING THOSE FOR FREE, SO THAT'S ONE OPTION.

OBVIOUSLY THAT'S ANOTHER STEP YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE BEFORE.

ANOTHER THING IS IF YOU'RE GETTING AN ABSENTEE BALLOT, PHOTO ID IS NOT REQUIRED.

>> ALSO, IN OHIO, MOST OF THE CHANGES THAT WERE DONE IN ADJUSTING SOME OF THE DEADLINES WERE THINGS SUPPORTED BIPARTISANLY BY DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS BECAUSE IT MAKES IT MORE EFFICIENT TO MAKE SURE IF YOU HAVE A RECOUNT PERIOD, YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS, MAIL SERVICE AND PEOPLE GET THE BALLOTS WHEN THEY NEED TO GET THEM AND GET THEM RETURNED IN TIME.

>> THEY SHRUNK THE RECOUNT PERIOD FROM TEN DAYS TO FOUR DAYS.

>> I HAVEN'T DONE A LOT OF RECOUNTS.

THE NUMBER OF BALLOTS THAT COME IN AFTER FOUR DAYS IS VERY SMALL.

MOST COME IN THE NEXT DAY OR TWO DAYS AFTER THAT.

>> I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE CONFUSION ISSUE BECAUSE I'VE HOSTED SHOWS WHERE WE'VE SPENT HOURS AFTER HOURS ANSWERING QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY DURING 2020 WHEN THINGS WERE UP IN THE AIR.

PEOPLE GET CONFUSED ABOUT THESE ISSUES.

>> PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE SOMETIMES PEOPLE CLAIM THESE ISSUES TO CLAIM VOTER SUPPRESSION WHEN IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

THEY TRY TO CONFUSE PEOPLE TO MAKE THEM ANGRY SO THEY'LL TURN OUT AND VOTE.

THE PRACTICAL REALITY IS PEOPLE CAN VOTE IN OHIO, AND THE SYSTEM WORKS WELL.

AND BY A LOT OF MEANS VOTING EARLY, VOTING BY ABSENTEE, OHIO HAS SOME OF THE TOP TEN IN THE NATION MOST LIBERAL LAWS TO ALLOW AND MAKE VOTING EASY.

>> RIGHT.

VOTING WAS WORKING FINE BEFORE, AND THERE'S VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE OF FRAUD WHEN IT COMES TO VOTER IDENTIFICATION, SO HAVE THEY BROKE?

>> CAN I PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT TO SOMETHING THAT TERRY -- AND I DON'T THINK HE WAS AWARE OF THIS.

ACCORDING TO AN ARTICLE FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES, OHIO RANKS NUMBER 11th IN THE MOST DIFFICULT.

>> THAT'S THE SAME NEW YORK TIMES THAT'S BEEN ASLEEP WHEN NEW YORK HAD SOME OF THE MOST SUPPRESSING VOTER RESTRICTIONS.

THEY DO.

THAT'S A FACT.

I'VE BEEN TO NEW YORK AND TALKED TO A BUNCH OF OFFICIALS THERE, AND SOME OF THEIR RULES ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.

OHIO IS MUCH EASIER -- >> I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE NEW YORK GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

I'M TALKING ABOUT A REPORTING THAT RANKS IN TERMS OF HOOPS YOU HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH, THAT OHIO IS NUMBER 11.

>> THE NEW YORK TIMES HAS A CERTAIN BIAS AND SLANT.

>> EVEN WITH THE BIAS.

>> OKAY.

LET'S MOVE ON.

THERE'S LOTS TO TALK ABOUT.

IN EACH SESSION OVER THE PAST DECADE, SOME OHIO LAWMAKERS HAVE PROPOSED ENDING OHIO'S DEATH PENALTY.

THIS SESSION IS NO DIFFERENT.

A BI-PARTISAN GROUP OF STATE SENATORS WANTS TO ABOLISH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND REPLACE IT WITH LIFE IN PRISON WITH NO CHANCE FOR PAROLE.

THEY POINT TO 11 OHIO DEATH ROW INMATES WHO HAVE BEEN EXONERATED.

AND THEY CITE A 2020 STUDY THAT SHOWED IN CINCINNATI'S HAMILTON COUNTY BLACK MEN ARE THREE TO FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO RECEIVE A DEATH SENTENCE IF THEIR VICTIM WAS WHITE.

PROSECUTORS ARGUE ABOLISHING THE DEATH PENALTY IS DANGEROUS AND OUT OF TOUCH DURING A TIME OF RISING CRIME AND INCREASING VIOLENCE.

OHIO HAS NOT EXECUTED AN INMATE SINCE 2018 BECAUSE OF LEGAL QUESTIONS SURROUNDING LETHAL INJECTION.

JOE MAS, I MEAN, ENDING THE DEATH PENALTY IS GRABBING SOME HEADLINES AGAIN.

DOES IT MATTER THAT THE GROUP OF LAW MAKE ES BEHIND THIS LATEST EFFORT IS BIPARTISAN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT DOES MATTER.

AND I THINK IT ALSO MATTERS THAT OHIO RIGHT TO LIFE IS NOW JUMPING INTO THE DIALOGUE AS POSSIBLY OPPOSING THE DEATH PENALTY.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ORGANICALLY IS GOING AWAY, AND I THINK THAT WITHOUT A DOUBT, I THINK WILL GO AWAY.

IT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO CONVICT SOMEBODY WITH THE DEATH SPECIFICATIONS IN THE STATE OF OHIO AND IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, IT'S ALMOST UNHEARD OF.

SO THAT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME THAT WE'RE GOING IN THAT DIRECTION.

I THINK THAT ONCE THAT SYSTEM UNDERSTANDS THAT LIFE WITHOUT THE CHANCE OF PAROL IS AN ADEQUATE PUNISHMENT, WE WILL DO THE SAME THING WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION IN MANY YEARS TO COME.

>> SENATE PRESIDENT MATT HUFFMAN HAS SAID HE DOESN'T SUPPORT ENDING THE DEATH PENALTY BUT HE WON'T STOP HIS MEMBERS FROM PURSUING AND WORKING ON THE ISSUE IN THAT WAY.

WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT IT GAINS MOMENTUM WITH THE THE SENATE ON BOARD?

>> I THINK THEY HAD ABOUT A DOZEN COSPONSORS WHEN THEY INTRODUCED IT.

THIS EFFORT HAS HAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN THE PAST AND STILL NOT GONE ANYWHERE.

SO I THINK THOSE WHO SUPPORT THIS MEASURE NEED TO CONVINCE ABOUT EIGHT MORE MEMBERS IN THE SENATE BEFORE IT'S SOMETHING THAT MATT HUFFMAN WOULD BRING UP.

WE ALSO SPOKE WITH THE SPEAKER.

SPEAKER STEPHENS SAID HE ALSO SUPPORTS THE DEATH PENALTY.

THOSE ARE TWO IMPORTANT HURDLES THE TWO LEADERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBERS IN OHIO THINK WE SHOULD KEEP CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

THE OTHER THING IS WE HAVE NOT HAD AN EXECUTION SINCE 2018.

THE FACT THAT WE HAVE THIS DE FACTO ON THE DEATH PENALTY IS NOT PUSHED IN THE HEADLINES AS MUCH TO TRY TO END SOMETHING THAT ISN'T HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M KIND OF INTERESTED.

THERE'S DIFFERENT REASONS FOR ENDING THE DEATH PENALTY.

SOME PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE MORALITY OF IT.

SOME PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE INATTRACTIVENESS OF HOW THESE CASES ARE ADJUDICATED IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND ALSO THEN OTHERS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE COST OF -- TO THE STATE OF PURSUING THESE CASES OVER TIME.

>> WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF COST ON DEATH PENALTY CASES.

I REMEMBER WAY BACK TALKING TO CRAIG WRIGHT WHO WAS A JUSTICE ON THE SUPREME COURT, AND THE GOOD THING ABOUT THE OHIO LAW, THERE'S A LOT OF SAFEGUARDS BUILT IN UNLIKE SOUTHERN STATES, YOU DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE REPRESENTATION.

BUT I THINK THERE COULD BE SOME FINE TUNING TO THE DEATH PENALTY LAW.

BUT AS IT WAS POINTED TO ME THIS WEEK, IF YOU'RE A PRISON INMATE OR A PRISON GUARD AND PEOPLE ALREADY IN FOR A LIFE SENTENCE CAN KILL WITHOUT ANY WORRY OF ADDITIONAL PENALTIES, THERE HAS TO BE SOME LIMITED CASES WHERE THE DEATH PENALTY IS STILL APPLICABLE IN ORDER TO PROTECT PEOPLE IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

AGAIN, IT NEEDS TO BE NARROW CASES WITH APPROPRIATE SAFEGUARDS AS OHIO IN GENERAL HAS.

>> ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS ADVANCED BY SEVERAL COUNTY PROSECUTORS IS THAT THE DEATH PENALTY -- HAVING THE DEATH PENALTY HANGING AS A POTENTIAL PENALTY TO SOMEONE ACCUSED IS MOTIVATION TO MAYBE TAKE A PLEA TO LIFE WITHOUT THE CHANCE OF PAROL.

AS A DEFENSE ATTORNEY, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE WHAT IF YOU HAVE A CLIENT THAT IT'S SORT OF A GRAY AREA.

IT'S SELF DEFENSE, THE BACKGROUND OF THE PARTIES AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES BETWEEN THEM, AND YOU MAY WANT TO GO TO TRIAL ON THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WOW, WHAT A RISK.

>> MOVING ON.

THIS WEEK'S SCHOOL SHOOTING IN NASHVILLE HAS AGAIN PROMPTED POLICY MAKERS TO LOOK AT THE VALUE OF HAVING POLICE OFFICERS STATIONED AT SCHOOLS.

EVEN BEFORE THE SHOOTING, GOVERNOR DEWINE PROPOSED SPENDING NEARLY $400 MILLION TO HAVE A POLICE OFFICER AT EVERY PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SCHOOL IN OHIO.

THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAYS THE PLAN IS IN RESPONSE TO TEACHERS' RELUCTANCE TO USE A LAW HE SAYS ALLOWS THEM TO CARRY GUNS IN SCHOOLS.

CRITICS SAY POLICE IN SCHOOL CAN CRIMINALIZE MAKE ROUTINE SCHOOL DISCIPLINE.

THEY ARGUE THE MONEY WOULD BE BETTER SPENT ON MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELORS IN SCHOOLS.

TERRY CASEY, THERE ISN'T A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT POLICE IN SCHOOLS MAKE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE WHEN THERE'S A SHOOTER INVOLVED, LIKE WITH METAL DETECTORS BECAUSE SHOOTERS TEND TO COME FROM THE OUTSIDE AND SHOOT THEIR WAY IN.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WALK THROUGH A MACHINE AND LET SOMEONE CATCH THEM WITH THEIR GUNS.

>> I WOULD ARGUE IN NASHVILLE BECAUSE OF THE HEROIC WAY THE POLICE OFFICERS WENT IN THERE AND TOOK OUT THE PERSON WHO COULD HAVE KILLED A LOT MORE IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE AS OPPOSE TODAY WHAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS WHERE THE POLICE WAITED OUTSIDE FOR AN HOUR.

THE GOVERNOR HAS NOT HAD ANY PUSHBACK ON HIS PLAN TO DO THAT.

CLEARLY THIS IS A COMPLICATED ISSUE BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER THE DATE AND SHOOTING, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HAPPENED THERE A COUPLE YEARS BACK IS THE SCHOOL OFFICIALS AND OTHERS KNEW THIS INDIVIDUAL HAD MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS, BUT THE PERSON HAD NOT BEEN ADJUDICATED, SO THEREFORE THERE WAS NOTHING ON THE RECORD TO STOP THEM FROM BUYING THE GUNS.

THERE WERE SOME SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE NATIONAL CASE.

CLEARLY MY SENSE IS YOU NEED TO LOOK AT A NUMBER OF THINGS, GUNS, YES, THAT'S A POTENTIAL, BUT YOU ALSO GOT TO LOOK AT MENTAL HEALTH.

>> I INTERVIEWED THE WASHINGTON POST REPORTER THIS WEEK AND SAID THAT THE GIRL HE FOLLOWED AROUND TO DO A STORY WAS GETTING JUST 15 MINUTES OF THERAPY EVERY TWO WEEKS.

THAT WAS THEIR IDEA OF PROVIDING FREE THERAPY.

DO WE EVEN KNOW WHAT WE MEAN BY MORE MENTAL HEALTH CARE ANYWAY?

>> I'M NOT SURE.

I KNOW IN THE PAST THEY'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT WRAP AROUND SERVICES, AND THAT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM JUST LIKE PHYSICAL HEALTH TO MENTAL HEALTH, BUT I THINK THOSE ARE DETAILS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE HASHED OUT IN VARIOUS PROPOSALS GOING FORWARD.

>> AND I WANTED TO KIND OF PICK UP ONE OF THE COMMENTS YOU MADE IN YOUR INTRODUCTION, AND THAT IS THAT THE PRESENCE OF RESOURCE OFFICERS IN THE SCHOOL SOMETIME INEVITABLY RESULTED IN KIDS BEING CHARGED WITH CRIMES JUST BECAUSE THEY HAPPENED TO BE THERE AND PERHAPS THEY TRY TO BREAK UP A FIGHT OR WHATEVER IT IS.

AND IF YOU'RE A HAMMER, EVERYTHING LOOKS LIKE A NAIL, AND THAT'S WHAT POLICE OFFICERS DO.

AND AS A CONSEQUENCE -- AND I'VE SEEN THIS FIRSTHAND IN JUVENILE COURT IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, YOU'VE GOT KIDS BEING CHARGED AND HAVING A JUVENILE RECORD BECAUSE OF THAT.

>> I'M CURIOUS.

ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE FAILURE OF THE ENABLING TEACHERS TO CARRY HAND GUNS OR FIREARMS IN SCHOOLS?

>> IT WASN'T OFFERED AS A REQUIREMENT TO DO IT.

IT WAS MERELY AN OPTION.

AGAIN, I THINK IN THE TOOL KIT, YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THERE ISN'T ONE SOLUTION BECAUSE OHIO IS SUCH A BIG AND DIVERSE STATE.

YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE MAGIC SOLUTION, ONE BUTTON YOU CAN PUSH TO MAKE IT ALL GO AWAY.

>> OKAY.

MOVING ON, IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THIS TIME THREE YEARS AGO, OHIOENS WERE CONFINED TO THEIR HOMES.

THE START OF THE PANDEMIC SHUT DOWN SCHOOLS, STORES, OFFICE BUILDINGS, RESTAURANTS, AND JUST ABOUT EVERY PUBLIC SPACE.

THE QUESTION REMAINS DID IT HELP SAVE LIVES OR DID THEY DO MORE HURT THAN GOOD.

THE LANSIT REPORTED OHIO HAD ONE OF THE NATION'S LOWEST COVID DEATH RATES FROM 2020 THROUGH MID 2022.

OHIO'S DEATH RATE WAS JUST UNDER 300 PEOPLE PER 100,000.

THE NATIONAL AVERAGE WAS 23% HIGHER.

IT'S NOT THAT EASY.

THERE WERE LOTS OF FACTORS, AND THE STUDY FOUND NO ASSOCIATION BETWEEN THE POLITICAL AFFILIATION OF THE STATE'S GOVERNOR AND ITS DEATH RATES.

JESSIE BALMERT, THIS IS GOOD NEWS FOR OHIO.

NOT AS MANY PEOPLE DIED HERE AS THEY DID IN OTHER STATES, BUT THE LAW HAS CHANGED.

IF THERE'S ANOTHER PANDEMIC, WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED AND WHAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT?

>> I THINK A LOT OF THOSE EARLY MEASURES THAT OHIO TOOK THAT GOVERNOR DeWINE TOOK THAT HE RECEIVED PRAISE AND CRITICISM FOR, CLOSING SCHOOLS, ON THAT PRIMARY WAS EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL.

CLOSING BUSINESSES, WHICH LED TO A RISE IN UNEMPLOYMENT.

SO SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, KEPT US AWAY FROM ONE ANOTHER THAT PROVIDED THAT DISTANCING, ESPECIALLY BEFORE WE HAD A VACCINE, BEFORE WE HAD SOME OF THESE OTHER TOOLS IN THE TOOL KIT POTENTIALLY WERE REALLY HELPFUL AT THAT PHASE.

BUT TO YOUR POINT, THERE WERE CONSEQUENCES, CHILDREN NOT BEING IN SCHOOL.

EDUCATION DEFICITS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH FOR YEARS.

THERE WAS NO ONE PERFECT WAY TO NAVIGATE THE PANDEMIC, BUT IT'S GOOD TO HEAR THAT OHIO DID WELL ON SOME MEASURES.

>> JOE.

>> AND THEY REMEMBER THAT GOVERNOR DeWINE ACTUALLY RECEIVED INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION FOR HIS COURAGE IN LEADING THE STATE IN ITS SCIENTIFIC DIRECTION.

AND NOW, WE SEE THIS STUDY FROM THE LANSIT INDICATING THAT IT WORKS IF YOU FOLLOW THE SCIENCE.

DID IT HAVE A POLITICAL RESULT OR IMPACT, MAKE AN IMPACT ON HIM?

YES AND NO.

HE GOT RE-ELECTED, SO OBVIOUSLY IT DIDN'T EFFECT HIM TO THAT DEGREE, BUT IT DID CAUSE THE OTHER BILLS TO BE PASSED TO NOW IN THE FUTURE, A GOVERNOR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACT AS FORCEFULLY.

>> AS A PUBLIC REACTION FROM PARTICULARLY THE RIGHT TO THE POLICIES UNDERTAKEN AT THE END OF THE PANDEMIC HAS BASICALLY DRIVEN THE HEALTH DIRECTOR FROM HER POST, SO WHAT DO YOU THINK, TERRY?

>> WELL, WHEN OHIO IS IN THE TOP TEN, BECAUSE I LOOKED AT THE MAP, AND I NOT ONLY GIVE THE GOVERNOR A LOT OF CREDIT, BUT ALSO THE MEDIA.

I THINK PEOPLE IN OHIO WERE A LITTLE MORE AWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WHEN YOU HAD A GOVERNOR ALMOST ON A DAILY BASIS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS.

I THINK THAT HELPED.

IT'S A DIFFICULT THING.

THE GOVERNOR HAD TO PUSH AT THE END TO GET THE SCHOOLS BACK IN SESSION BECAUSE SOME OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WERE RELUCTANT TO DO THAT.

YES, THERE WAS A COST AND CHALLENGES, BUT I THINK OHIO BEING AN INTERNATIONAL LEADER IS GOOD FOR THE STATE AND GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE.

>> I GUESS I WOULD NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD LIVE TO SEE THE DAY THAT A STATE HEALTH DIRECTOR HAS A FAN CLUB.

NOW WHO KNOW WHO IS THE STATE HEALTH DIRECTOR IS, NO OFFENSE TO THE STATE HEALTH DIRECTOR.

LOTS OF LESSONS TO LEARN GOING FORWARD.

FOR NOW, IT'S TIME FOR OUR PARTING CHATS.

>> THIS WEEK ONCE AGAIN, WE MOURN THE DEATH OF CHILDREN AND TEACHERS IN ANOTHER STATE, AND ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE AN ASSAULT RIFLE INVOLVED AS THE INCIDENT OF DEATH.

ANOTHER ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN AS WE HAD THROUGH 1994 THROUGH 2004 MAY NOT PREVENT EVERY SUCH TRAGEDY, BUT WE CAN BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT DOING NOTHING WILL NOT PREVENT A SINGLE ONE.

>> TERRY KAY SIS.

>> MY PREDICTION FOR NOVEMBER OF 2024 IS WATCH YOUR WALLET BECAUSE THIS WEEK, HODA WAS TALKING ABOUT WANTING TO DOUBLE THE SALES TAX FOR CODA AND THE COLUMBUS SCHOOLS WANT A BIG PROPERTY TAX INCREASE AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO MAKE HOUSING MORE AFFORDABLE, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ALL THESE TAX INCREASES.

HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT ALL THESE TAX REQUESTS AND ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS.

>> JESSIE BALMERT.

>> SO ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT'S PUSHING FOR THIS ABORTION AMENDMENT IN NOVEMBER HIRED SOME PAID SIGNATURE COLLECTORS THIS WEEK WHICH SHOWS THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS EFFORT MOVING FORWARD TO TRY TO HIT THAT JULY DEADLINE, AND ALSO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DIRECTOR IS BRUCE BANDERHOF.

>> OKAY.

MY OFF THE RECORD PARTING COMMENT IS MIKE THOMPSON WILL RETURN NEXT YEAR TO LEAD THE SHOW.

SO -- >> NEXT WEEK.

>> NEXT WEEK.

DID I SAY NEXT YEAR?

OKAY.

THAT'S ALL GOOD THEN.

MIKE WILL BE BACK.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK.

YOU CAN WATCH US ANY TIME ON WOSU.ORG/COTR OR ON THE VIDEO APP.

I'M ANN FISHER.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.