>>> THE DIVIDE GROWS BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE.

JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD," OHIO PUBLIC RADIO, JIM KREBS, FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR, AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST.

AFTER NEARLY A YEAR OF COMPLAINING ABOUT GOVERNOR DEWINE'S HEALTH ORDERS, THE OHIO LEGISLATURE HAS DECIDED 132 LAWMAKERS ARE BETTER ABLE TO ISSUE EMERGENCY ORDERS THAN THE STATE'S CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OR LOCAL HEALTH OFFICIALS.

THE HOUSE HAS SETTLED THIS WEEK OVERRODE A BILL OF THE GOVERNOR.

THE LAW ALLOWS LEGISLATURE TO IMMEDIATELY REJECT OR CHANGE ANY STATE HEALTH ORDER.

IT LIMITS LOCAL BOARDS OH HEALTH ABILITY TO ISSUE HEALTH WARNINGS.

WOULD ALSO HAVE A STAY IN SUSPENDING OR ENDING STATES OF EMERGENCIES.

>> I THINK THIS IS A BILL THAT RESTORES RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS OF OHIOANS.

>> I AM TELLING YOU ALL THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS.

THIS IS ILL CONCEIVED.

THIS IS UNNECESSARY.

AND THEN TO HEAR ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, IT'S A FIGHT WITH THE GOVERNOR BECAUSE YOU'RE UPSET HE DIDN'T CALL YOU.

I MEAN, I THOUGHT WE TALKED ABOUT IN PAST PEOPLE NOT CALLING US IN HIGH SCHOOL.

>> JIM KREBS, YOU WERE ONCE ONE OF THOSE IN THE HOUSE.

SHOULD THEY HAVE IMMEDIATE VETO POWER OVER AN EMERGENCY?

IS THAT WISE PUBLIC POLICY?

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CURRENT COVID VIRUS, IT HAS A 2% MORTALITY RATE.

FLU IS.1%.

PREVIOUS TO COVID THERE WAS A DISEASE CALLS MERS, MERS, COMING FROM CAMELS.

IT HAS A BIGGER MORTALITY RATE.

IT'S NOT TRANSMISSIBLE.

THE NEXT ONE COULD BE AS TRANSMISSIBLE AS COVID AND AS DEADLY AS MERS.

AT THAT POINT IN TIME YOU DO NOT WANE TO HAVE A COLLECTION OF 102 PEOPLE TRYING TO STEP IN.

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS PURE POLITICAL THEATER.

WHEN YOU READ THE FACT THAT LET'S SAY THE SERVICE COMMISSION, THIS HAD PRO FOUND CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES.

BUT EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO WALK AWAY FROM THIS AND MOVE TO CLEAR VICTORY.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INCUMBENT.

DOING IT THIS WAY, THEN IF YOU MONITOR THE FACEBOOK PAGES OF THOSE LEGISLATORS, THEY HAVE 400 CONSTITUENTS YELLING AT THEM TO NEXT WEEK.

ALL RIGHT.

AT THE SAME TIME, THINK ALSO KNOW THAT THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE NEATLY OVERTURNED IN THE COURTS, SO THEY CAN DO THIS.

THEY LOOK GOOD TO THEIR CONSTITUENCY AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THERE'S NO REAL HARM DONE, THEY THINK BUT THAT -- >> WELL, IT IS THE LAW.

IT TAKES 90 DAYS FOR IT TO GO INTO EFFECT.

THERE ARE SOME CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTIONS, BUT THE SUPREME COURT DOES NOT OVERTURN THIS, AT LEAST NOT RIGHT AWAY?

THIS IS THE LAW.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO -- PRECEDENT THAT'S BEEN SET BY THE LEGISLATURE, EVEN MORE SO THAN ANYTHING, THIS HAS EMPOWERED THE GLP LEGISLATORS.

THERE'S A SIMPLE MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE BOTH IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

NOW WITH THESE LEGISLATORS FEELING EMBOLDnd BY THIS OVERRIDE, THEY NOW CAN DO BOISK ANYTHING THEY WANT.

THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE ABOVE DID GOVERNOR, SO IF THEY PUT A PIECE OF LEGISLATION UP AND THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T LIKE IT, THEN THEY CAN USE THEIR VETO OVERRIDE TO OVERRIDE HIS DECISION.

>> JOINING US, THE GOVERNOR DID TRY TO FORCE A LAST-MINUTE COMPROMISE IN HIS VETO MESSAGE, AND HE TRIED TO FIND SOME KIND OF MIDDLE GROUND.

WE HEARD LEADERS SAY THIS WAS BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T GET A CALL FROM THE GOVERNOR.

IS IT ROLLE JUST THAT, A LACK OF COMMUNICATION?

WHY WAS THERE NO MIDDLE GROUND HERE?

>> I DON'T WANT TO WEIGH IN ON WHAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY THINKING AND WHETHER THAT IS TRUE OR NOT.

BUT I THINK IF THERE IS AN ELEMENT THAT THE LAWMAKERS FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT BEING HEARD AND THAT THEY HAVE CONCERNS THAT I ADDRESSED.

THAT BEING SAID, IF YOU GET A BUNCH OF LAWMAKERS TOGETHER ON ANY GIVEN DAY, IT'S NOT QUICK TO GET LEGISLATION PASSED.

NOTHING HAPPENS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

THAT'S ONE ISSUE.

I THINK THE OTHER ISSUE WITH THIS IS IT'S GOING TO END UP IN COURT.

>> YEAH.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS HE INTENDS -- THAT IT'S 90 DAYS.

I GUESS THEY STILL COULD STRIKE A DEAL.

I'LL GET TO THAT WITH YOU.

THE PANDEMIC IS SO DIFFERENT.

THIS ISN'T AN OVERTURNED TANKER LEAKING CHEMICALS, LEGIONNAIRE'S OUTBREAK.

THIS IS A STATE WIDE PANDEMIC THAT WAS GOING TO LAST MONTHS AND MONTHS.

AND COULD YOU SEE A COMPROMISE WHERE, OK, THE GOVERNOR HAS THE CHANCE TO ISSUE THE EXECUTIVE ORDER, SHUS THINGS DOWN FOR, SAY, 90 DAYS, BUT THEN AFTER THE 90 DAYS, IT TAKES, SAY, TWO-THIRDS OF THE MAJORITY TO OVERTURN THAT.

>> WOULD LAWMAKERS HAVE GONE FORE THAT OR WAS IT ALL OR NOTHING?

>> THEY COULD HAVE BUT REMEMBER, THAT WAS NOT AUTHORED AND THE REASON IT WAS NOT AUTHORED WAS SO THAT EVERYBODY COULD CLAIM VICTORY AND WALK AWAY WITH THE STATUS QUO INTACT, BECAUSE THESE TYPES OF LAWS WE'VE HAD HAVE BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE THE 1880 s. THESE TYPES OF DISEASES ARE NEW TO US, BUT WE HAVE VERY SHORT MEMORIES AND WE NEED TO REALIZE THESE ARE -- LAWS HAVE BEEN THERE 140 YEARS FOR A VERY GOOD REASON.

>> DERRICK, THE HEALTH THAT'S GONE ON FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS, SHOONTS LAWMAKERS HAVE SOME KIND OF CHECK AND BALANCE?

YOU CAN SEE IT COULD BE ABUSED DOWN THE ROAD.

I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN ABUSED HERE BUT YOU COULD SEE THE POSSIBILITY WHERE THE POWER COULD BE ABUSED.

IS THERE A TIME FRAME WHEN LAWMAKERS SHOULD TRY THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE ALWAYS GOOD WHEN YOU DEAL WITH GOVERNMENT, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

BUT AGAIN, WE'RE UNTIL A NATIONWIDE PANDEMIC, PANDEMIC THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN FOR A HUNDRED YEARS, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE DONE -- EVERYTHING THAT THIS GOVERNOR HAS DONE IN MY OPINION HAS BEEN FOR THE GOOD OF THE -- OF OHIOANS.

YOU KNOW, REASON WHY YOU HAVE PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS IN PLACE THAT GIVE THESE TYPES OF ORDERS, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE DOING THIS WILLY-NILLY THING.

WHENEVER THEY FEEL LIKE IT.

THIS IS A NATIONAL PANDEMIC WE'RE IN.

PEOPLE ARE DYING.

YOU'VE GOT EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL AND HEALTH AGENCY ACROSS THE STATE BASICALLY PLEADING WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO TELL THEM NOT TO DO THE OVERRIDE AND THEY DID IT BECAUSE THEY HAD A POLITICAL EGO AND A CHIP ON THEIR SHOULDER.

>> 90 DAYS BEFORE THIS, LOOKS LIKE 88 DAYS BEFORE THIS GOES INTO EFFECT.

DO YOU EXPECT ANY KIND OF -- DO YOU MAKE ANYTHING OF THE 90 DAYS OR THE GOVERNOR JUST HAS TO CALL IT AND HOPE THE COURT OR WHATEVER COURT HE GOES TO NULLIFIES THIS?

>> THERE IS ALWAYS DEAL MAKING TO BE DONE AT THE STATEHOUSE.

I KNOW THAT FOR SURE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR GOT -- HE SAID SO MUCH.

SO I MEAN, WHO KNOWS?

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION OTHER THAN TO SAY THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS OUT THERE ABOUT THIS BILL AND IF THEY DON'T GET ANSWERED, A COURT IS GOING TO BE IN THE POSITION OF ANSWERING THEM.

>> YES.

GOVERNOR DEWINE SAYS HE WILL CANCEL ALL OF THE HEALTH ORDERS ONCE OHIO GETS DOWN TO 50 CASES PER 100,000 PEOPLE FOR TWO WEEKS STRAIGHT.

FOR A WHILE, THE RATE WAS DROPPING PRETTY FAST, BUT PROGRESS HAS STALLED.

IN FACT, THIS WEEK, THE NEW CASE RATE WENT UP TO 149 CASES PER HE SAYS THE KEY TO GETTING OUT FROM UNDER THE ORDERS IS TO GET THE SHOTS IN THE ARMS.

>> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE PRETTY QUICKLY FROM A POINT WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH VACCINE UNTIL WE DO HAVE PLENTY OF VACCINE.

THEN THE QUESTION IS CAN WE REACH THAT HERD IMMUNITY?

WILL ENOUGH PEOPLE BE WILLING TO GET VACCINATED?

>> NEXT WEEK THE STATE EXPECTS TO HAVE MORE THAT A HALF MILLION DOSES TO 5D MR.

STARTING MONDAY, EVERY 16 AND OVER CAN GET A SHOT.

HE DIDN'T SAY IT DIRECTLY, BUT HE SEEMS A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT THE PROBLEM IS NOT GETTING THE VACCINE TO PEOPLE.

IT'S GETTING PEOPLE TO GET THE VACCINE.

HOW MUCH OF AN ISSUE MIGHT THAT BE IN TRYING TO GET THIS CASE NUMBER DOWN?

>> THAT'S TRUE.

THERE IS A PROBLEM OF PEOPLE GETTING THE VACCINE IN SOME AREAS, HOME RUN.

IN OTHER AREAS, YOU SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO TRY TO GET THE VACCINE.

SO WE HAVE WITH TWO OHIOS RIGHT NOW.

ONE THAT WANTS THE VACCINE AND ONE -- ONE PART OF OHIO WHERE PEOPLE ARE DRIVING AWAY FROM DLUM BUS TO GO OUT TO A FAR FLUNG PLACE TO BE ABLE TO GET A VACCINE, SO -- BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT ONCE OVER WHO IS PUSHING TO GET THE VACCINE RIGHT NOW, ONCE THEY GET IT, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A SITUATION WHERE WE'VE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, GOT THIS GROUP AND YOU'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO REACH THEM, BECAUSE THE VACCINE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT GOVERNOR DEWINE KEEPS ALLUDING TO IN HIS PRESS CONFERENCES IS WANTING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING THE VACCINE TO TALK TO THEIR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS ABOUT WHY THEY DID IT, WHY THEY -- WHY OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO DO IT, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

AND RIDING NOW THE STATE IS ADDRESSING IT BY TRYING TO MOVE THINGS AROUND A LITTLE BIT.

BUT THAT'S ONLY GOING TO HOLD FOR SO LONG.

>> GENE KREBS, IN WESTERN OHIO, WHAT'S THE MOOD AMONG YOUR NEIGHBORS AS FAR AS THEIR WILLINGNESS TO GET THE VACCINE?

ARE THEY EAGER, ARE THEY HIS TAN?

>> I THINK THE DATA INDICATES THEY'RE VERY HESITANT.

IN THE COUNTY, 30,000 PEOPLE AND HAS MORE LIFE STOCK THERE THAN PEOPLE.

HAS HAD PEOPLE FROM NEIGHBORING COUNTIES DRIVE IN TO GET THE VACCINE HERE BECAUSE THERE'S LOTS OF AVAILABILITY THAT THEY FIND THEMSELVES LOCKED OUT IN MONTGOMERY OR BUTLER COUNTY.

AND IT'S BECOMING -- IT'S -- ONE, IT'S THE FIRST OF IRRITATION.

FINELINE NEIGHBORS.

HAND THEY'VE BEEN EXPRESSING SOME ANXIETY OVER EVERYBODY ELSE COMING TO GET THEIR VACCINE, BUT IF THEY'RE NOT TAKING IT, THEN IT'S OK.

I TRY TO EXPLAIN THEM, THEY HAVE TO GO TO SOMEBODY.

>> YES.

>> WHY -- >> IS THERE NOT ENOUGH OF THE SCIENCE BECAUSE IT WAS DEVELOPED QUICKLY?

THEY SAY ALL THE POLICIES WERE FOLLOWED.

JUST THE TIMETABLE SHRUNK.

ARE THEY WORRIED THAT IT'S POSSIBLY DANGER TO US DOWN THE ROAD?

>> IT'S ALL OF THE ABOVE.

I'VE HEARD THIS FROM EVERY SINGLE THING YOU'VE MENTIONED.

IT WASN'T BETTER PROPERLY BUILT, TRY -- INVOLVED IN IT AND I TELL THEM, YES, BUT IF I RETRACT IT.

THROUGH YOUR CELL PHONE.

>> DON'T WORRY ABOUT GETTING IT THROUGH YOUR VACCINE.

IT'S STILL DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD.

YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVINCE SOMEBODY OF SOMETHING TO CHANGE THEIR MIND IS EXTRALY DIFFICULT JOB THAT REQUIRES -- PEOPLE USUAL LIMB IN AMERICA THAT INVOLVES CELEBRITIES.

TO MY NEIGHBORS, I'M JUST GENE.

I'M NOT A CELEBRITY.

A BENGALS STAR DOING A PRO VACCINE AD DOWN HERE.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP DID GET THE ADVANTAGE SEEN.

HE SAID THROUGH A PRESS RELEASE BECAUSE HE'S NOT ON TWITTER ANYMORE, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD GET A VACCINE.

IF HE DID AN AD, THAT MIGHT HELP, RIGHT?

>> WELL, I'M SURE IT WOULD, BUT HE SHOULD HAVE DID THAT A YEAR AGO WHEN HE HAD EVEN MORE INFLUENCE TO GET PEOPLE VACCINATED.

LISTEN, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THERE'S ABOUT 14% OF OUR POPULATION THAT HAVE BEEN VACCINATED THUS FAR.

THREE OF MY COLLEAGUES JUST TODAY TOLD ME THAT THEY DROVE OVER AN HOUR AND A HALF TO GET THE VACCINE.

THE VACCINE THAT IS OUT THERE AND IT'S AVAILABLE IF YOU WANT TO GET IT.

NOW, NORTH POPULATIONS HAVE BEEN VACCINATED AT A LESSER PEACE THAN THE REST OF THE STATE.

THEY'RE AT AROUND MAYBE 5% VACCINATED.

SO WE GOT TO FIND WAYS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE NECESSARY TRANSPORTATION.

IF THEY DON'T HAVE TRANSPORTATIONS TO GET VACCINATED, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME CONFUSION OUT THERE ABOUT HOW TO ACTUALLY SCHEDULE THE VACCINATIONS.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING THAT WE KNOW HOW TO DO.

WE JUST GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE BROADCASTING THAT TO FOLKS IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> DOES IT FRUSTRATE YOU THAT YOU HEAR ABOUT CITIES LIKE LIMA OR THEY HAD TOO MUCH VACCINE AND THEY'RE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO USE IT UP.

OTHER PLACES PEOPLE HAVE TO DRIVE TWO AND THREE HOURS TO GET THE VACCINE.

SHOULD THAT BE TWEAKED ON WHERE IT'S DISTRIBUTED?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE FORMULA DEFINITELY SHOULD BE TWEAKED.

IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD SOME TECHNOLOGY HERE THAT WE CAN TELL WHETHER PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE VACCINATION AND HOW MANY VACCINES WE HAVE LEFT, IF WE CAN SHIP THAT TO A NEW PLACE WE CAN GET VACCINATED MORE QUICKLY, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE LOOKING TO DO THAT.

>> DOES THE DEWINE ADMINISTRATION LOOKING AT THE FORMULA?

HAVE THEY TWEAKED I WOULD SINCE THEY STARTED TO GIVE OUT LOTS OF VACCINE OR MAKING IT AVAILABLE?

>> YES.

THEY HAVE TWEAKED THE VACCINE AND TAKING IT FROM AREAS WHERE IT'S NOT POPULAR, PUTTING IT IN OTHER AREAS.

THEY TOLD SOME OF THESE AREAS, THE HEALTH DISTRICTS, THE PHARMACIES THAT WEREN'T ABLE TO SERVE MORE SPOTS WITH THE EXISTING ELIGIBLE PEOPLE THAT SAID YOU MUST GO AHEAD AND WHOEVER WANTS IT CAN HAVE IT.

AND AS LONG AS THEY'RE OVER 16.

AND THE 16 AND 17-YEAR-OLDS HAVE TO HAVE PFIZER.

18 AND UP, YOU CAN HAVE ANY OF THE VACCINES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

GOVERNOR DEWINE SAYS IT'S NOT THAT LONG UNTIL THE 29th WHEN EVERYONE WOULD BE ABLE TO GET IT ANYWAY.

HE SAYS BY OPENING THAT WINDOW TO MORE PEOPLE THAT WILL HELP IN THOSE AREAS WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO TAKE THE VACCINE.

BUT HE HAS SAID THAT HE'S MADE SOME TWEAKS THERE AND THERE'S MORE.

>> HEARING TODAY THAT MANY YOUNGER PEOPLE, THE ONES UNDER 40 WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TECHNICALABLY UNTIL MONDAY, THEY'VE BEEN MAKING APPOINTMENTS AND THEY'RE FILLING UP FAST.

SO THAT'S GOOD.

>>> PRESIDENT BIDEN MADE A TRIP THIS WEEK TO MARK THE 11th ANNIVERSARY OF BAKER.

BIDEN TOURED THE JAMES CANCER CENTER AT THE LSU MEDICAL CENTER.

THE FACILITY USED $100 MILLION IN BAKER MONEY TO EXPAND ITS RADIOLOGY, ON KOLG TREATMENT CENTER.

HE SAYS THE COVID RELIEF PACKAGE IS ONE WAY HE WANTS TO IMPROVE THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

>> WE HAVE A DUTY NOT JUST TO PROTECT IT BUT TO MAKE IT BETTER, AND KEEP BECOMING A NATION WHERE HEALTH CARE IS RIGHT FOR ALL AND NOT A PRIVILEGE FOR A FEW.

>> REPUBLICANS SAID THAT JOE BIDEN WAS SPIKING THE FOOTBALL WITH HIS TRIP TO OHIO AND ALSO PENNSYLVANIA.

ARE THEY WRONG?

>> NO.

IT'S LIKE THE FOOTBALL IN THE STANDS.

LISTEN, WE'RE AT A POINT RIGHT NOW WHERE HELP IS HERE.

HELP IS FINALLY HERE.

YOU KNOW, THE FORMER ADMINISTRATION MAD PLENTY OF TIME TO DO THE SAME TYPES OF THINGS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS DOING WITH THIS AMERICAN RELIEF PAMG, YOU KNOW, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE UNDER HIS CONTROL.

HE COULD HAVE DONE -- HE COULD HAVE DID THESE THINGS THAT ARE ACTUALLY PUMPING MONEY BACK INTO THE ECONOMY.

HE JUST DID NOT DO THAT.

SO NOW WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO ACTUALLY CARES, WHO ACTUALLY IS -- FORCE A PAMG THAT'S NOT ONLY GOING TO PUT MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF AMERICANS THAT NEED IT BUT MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY THAT WILL ACTUALLY JUMP START OUR ECONOMY.

>> GENE KREBS, THE PRESIDENT SEEMS TO BE GOING AROUND REPUBLICANS LEADERS.

HE'S GOING AROUND THE LEADERS DIRECTLY TO THE REPUBLICAN VOTERS.

A SIMPLE MAJORITY OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS SUPPORT THE COVID RELIEF PACKAGE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S HUGELY ADDING TO OUR DEFICIT.

IS THAT A WISE STRATEGY?

WILL IT WORK?

>> I THINK WORKERS SEE THE INVERSION OF A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY STRATEGY, WHICH IS UNLIKE THE DAYS OF FDR AND L B.J.

WHEN IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT COMING UP WITH A NEW PROGRAM.

NOW THEY'RE DOING DIRECT WEALTH TRANSFERS.

AND THAT'S MUCH HARDER TO ARGUE ON A CERTAIN CONSERVATIVE LEVEL, BECAUSE YOU'RE CUTTING OUT ALL THE BUREAUCRACY.

AND YOU'RE EMPOWERING PEOPLE TO SPEND THE MONEY IN THE WAY THEY THINK IS ACTUALLY BEST.

AND SO WHAT YOU'RE GETTING HERE IS FDR WITH A LITTLE BIT OF RONALD REAGAN AT THE SAME TIME, AND THAT'S -- I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE FINDING SO DIFFICULT TO PUSH BACK TO GIVE.

SO THAT'S WHY IT HAS ABOUT A 60, 62% REPORT BY REPUBLICANS IN POLLING.

I'M FOR -- I ANTICIPATED THIS BEING SO POPULAR AMONG OUR FELLOW GOP.

>> BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS IS ADDING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY TO THE DEFICIT AND THE DEBT AND THE HOPE IS THAT THE IMPROVED ECONOMY WILL SPUR ECONOMIC GROWTH, BUT THE FEELING THAT TAX HIKES AREN'T TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD.

>> IT'S VERY POSSIBLE WE'LL SEE SOME TAX HIKES OR TAX REORGANIZATION GOING ON HERE.

I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HE PROMISED IN THE CAMPAIGN AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT HE WILL PROBABLY ATTEMPT TO DO, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT HE HAS THE SENATE.

I THINK THE THING THAT WE NEED TO REMEMBER IN ALL THIS, THOUGH, IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS ALSO HAVE PUT FORWARD SOME PRETTY AMBITIOUS AND BOLD SPENDING PROGRAMS FOR CORONAVIRUS.

SO THIS, YES, IT'S BIG, BUT THE ONES BEFORE HAVE BEEN PRETTY BIG, TOO, AND A LOT OF ECONOMISTS SAY IF YOU DON'T GO BIG AND TRY TO GET OUT OF THIS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THE ECONOMY TO RECOVER, SO THERE'S TWO WAYS OF LOOKING AT THIS, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS DEMOCRATS SAYING, WELL, WE REALLY NEED TO SPEND RIGHTS NOW SO THAT WE CAN GET ON OUR FOOTING AND BE ABLE TO GET THE ECONOMY BREATHING WELL.

>> AND THE TAX CUT AFROM PROVED BY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND GOP LEADERS WERE ALSO VERY LARGE AS WELL.

LAWMAKERS HAVE APPROVED MORE THAN 8 MILLION DOLLARS TO PAY FOR TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

ROADS, BRIDGES, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, UNLIKE TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THEY BATTLED OVER INCREASING THE GAS TAX, THERE'S VERY LITTLE CONTROVERSY AMONG LAWMAKERS THIS TIME.

THEY PLAN TO SPEND MORE THAN GOVERNOR DEWINE ORIGINALLY PROPOSED.

NOT A LOT OF CONTROVERSY HERE.

THIS IS SORT OF THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF GOVRING, FIX THE ROADS AND BRIDGES.

PRETTY EASY FAILING HERE.

>> YES.

AND WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT GOVERNOR DEWINE REALLY PROPOSED CHOPPING N AND COVERING TRANSIT DOWN ALMOST TO NOTHING.

WHAT THEY'VE DONE, THEY'VE RESTORED SOME MONEY FOR PUBLIC TRANSIT.

WE ALSO NEED TO REMEMBER THAT IN OUR CITIES, PARTICULARLY, HAVING PUBLIC TRANSIT IS A WAY TO KEEP PEOPLE EMPLOYED, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPEND ON PUBLIC TRANSIT, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT, IT'S A PROBLEM.

AND THEY'VE ALSO BEEN ALL THESE BUS SYSTEMS, THEY'VE BEEN DEALING WITH CORONAVIRUS ISSUES.

I'D BEEN MORE EXPENSIVE FOR THEM TO OPERATE.

SO THEY'RE COMING TO THE LAWMAKERS AND SAYING HEALTH.

>> IS IT A WISE INVESTMENT?

THE PANDEMIC WILL END SOME DAY.

RIGHT NOW FOLKS DON'T WANT TO GET ON CROWDED BUSES.

THEY'RE GETTING IN THEIR CAR, WALKING TO WORK IF THEY CAN.

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION RIGHT NOW, IS THAT THE WAY TO GO?

>> IT'S ACTUALLY A WORK FORCE ISSUE MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE THE -- IF YOU TALK TO BUSINESSES, THIS IS ONE OF THE KEY WAYS FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES TO GET AROUND.

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW, AND OHIO STATE HAD A BEAUTIFUL STUDY ON THIS IN NOVEMBER OR DECEMBER, THAT IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE BIG CITIES, THAT FOR TRANSIT AND BUFFERS THINGS OF THIS NATURE, THE LONG INCOME, FOLKS, WE'RE STILL PICKING TRANSIT.

IT WAS THE WHITE COLLAR WORKER, THE OFFICE WORKER WHO IS NOW WORKING FROM HOME AND NOT TRACHING TRANSIT.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE READERSHIP -- THE RIDERSHIP SHRUNK BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF IT BECAME EVEN MORE MAGNIFIED IN A TIME OF DECLINING REVENUES AND DECLINING ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES.

NOW, IF YOU TALK TO FOLKS AT THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OR THE OHIO MANUFACTURING ASSOCIATION, THEY WILL TELL YOU GETTING THE WORKERS TO WORK IS A KEY ASPECT OF THIS AND THEY NEED TO HAVE EFFECTIVE TRANSIT FOR WORK FORCE DEVELOPMENT.

SURPRISINGLY NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE SEEM TO CRAFT THAT.

>> REAL QUICK, WOULD THIS, PLUS WE EXPECT JOE BIDEN'S INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN COULD BE AN EXPANSION OF TRANSIT, LIGHT RAIL, INTERCITY RAIL.

>> INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM AMTRAK, THE PLANNING COMMISSION ABOUT POSSIBLY BRINGING A PASSENGER TRAIN LINE TO COLUMBUS.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE PACKAGE, THE TRANSPORTATION BILL IS DEFINITELY GOING TO PAY FOR ROADS, BRIDGES AND PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION THAT WE DESPERATELY NEED IN OUR STATE.

THE BOTTOM LINE, AS GENE ALLUDED TO, IT'S SUCH A CRITICAL WORK FORCE ISSUE THAT WE DEFINITELY NEED TO FUND.

IT'S TAXPAYERS' MONEY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S GET TO THE FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

GENE KREBS, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> TOO MANY OF MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ARE HOPING THIS WILL BE A GOOD MIDTERM FOR THEM BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD MIDTERM FOR THE PARTY NOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

LOOK AT 1934 ELECTION MIDTERM BECAUSE THAT WAS OVERWHELMINGLY FOR FDR'S PARTY WHO WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THEY ACTUALLY PICKED UP TEN U.S. SENATE SEATS.

I THINK YOU'RE SUFFERING FROM SOME OVERCONFIDENCE AND IT THINK YOU NEED TO GO AHEAD AND WORK HARDER AND SMARTER.

>> DERRICK CLAY.

>> LONG TIME CITY COUNCIL WOMAN IS IN RETIREMENT TODAY AT THE END OF THE YEAR SHE'S STEPPING DOWN WHICH IS GOING TO CREATE A POLITICAL SHUFFLE IN OUR CITY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

AND JO INGLES.

>> YOU THINK WE'LL START TO HEAR MORE ABOUT HERD IMMUNITY.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR MORE ABOUT VACCINATIONS, LESS AND MASKS AND MORE ABOUT VACCINATIONS.

IF WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE EVERYONE WHO WANTS ONE HAS ONE, WE'RE STILL NOT AT THE POINT WHERE SCIENTISTS NEED TO BE TO HAVE IMMUNITY.

>> THEY'VE TAKEN AWAY SUBSIDIES FOR THE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS THAT CAUSED ALL THAT TROUBLE.

SOMETHING'S ON HIS DESK AND MY GUESS IS HE'LL SIGN IT.

THAT'S IT FOR "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE.

FOR OUR CREW AND FOR OUR PANEL, I'M MIME THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.