>>> 2023 WAS QUITE A YEAR IN OHIO.

CAN 2024 TOP IT?

♪♪ >> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

2023 WAS AN INCREDIBLE YEAR IN OHIO POLITICS.

THE FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE BEGAN A 20-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE THIS YEAR.

OHIO VOTERS REJECTED AN ATTEMPT TO CHANGE THE RULES, AND THEN THEY GUARANTEED ABORTION RIGHTS.

THEY ALSO LEGALIZED MARIJUANA FOR FUN.

AND THOSE STORIES ARE FAR FROM OVER AS THE NEW YEAR BEGINS.

FIRST, WITH ABORTION RIGHTS SECURED IN THE CONSTITUTION, IT WILL BE UP TO THE COURTS AND LIKELY LAWMAKERS TO GUIDE HOW THOSE RIGHTS WILL BE PROTECTED OR RESTRICTED IN THE YEARS TO COME.

ANNA STAVER, THE QUESTION NOW IS THE SO-CALLED HEARTBEAT LAW.

IT HAS BEEN ON HOLD FOR ABOUT A YEAR.

THIS IS THE SIX-WEEK BAN, BUT IT WILL FACE A COURT DECISIONS EARLY IN '24.

>> THE SUPREME COURT DECIDED NOT TO TAKE UP TWO SIDE ISSUES.

THIS WAS SOMETHING -- WHEN IT GOT TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT IT WASN'T ABOUT WHETHER THE HEARTBEAT BILL WAS LEGAL, IT WAS ABOUT WHETHER ABORTION CLINICS HAD THE RIGHT TO SUE.

SO STANDING, WHICH IS THE LEGAL TERM FOR RIGHT TO SUE.

IT WAS ALSO ABOUT WHETHER IT COULD BE APPEALED STRAIGHT TO THE SUPREME COURT.

NOW, ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST SAID, HEY, I REALLY THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD LOOK AT THIS.

THEY SAID NO.

IT WENT BACK TO THE HAMILTON COUNTY COURT WHERE WE EXPECT IT WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE FOUND UNCONSTITUTIONAL, EVEN DAVE YOST SAID BASED ON THE NEW AMENDMENT THIS LAW ISN'T LEGAL.

>> SO WE TAKE A STEP BACK, I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK ALMOST TO '22 WHEN THE DODD DECISION OVERTURNED ROE.

BUT COULD ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS, COULD THEY HAVE DONE ANYTHING DIFFERENT IN THE PAST YEAR TO EITHER PREVENT THAT AMENDMENT FROM PASSING OR HAVE RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE MORE ONEROUS THAN WHAT THAT AMENDMENT ALLOWS?

>> WELL, MIKE, I THINK IT PASSED -- AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE I THOUGHT IT WOULD GO AT LEAST 55%.

I GUESS ENDED UP 57.

COULD THEY HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO STOP THE PASSAGE, I'M NOT SURE.

COULD THEY HAVE GIVEN THEMSELVES A BETTER CHANCE, YES, THEY COULD HAVE.

AND I THINK THE RAPE AND INCEST THING IS JUST RIGHT THERE.

IT'S JUST -- TO ME, WHEN YOU DENY A PERSON THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYBODY GOES ALONG WITH IT EXCEPT MAYBE THE PEOPLE THAT WROTE THE BILL.

>> DID LAWMAKERS UNDERESTIMATE PUBLIC OPINION, WERE THEY NOT BELIEVING THE POLLS?

THE POLLS HAVE BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT EVEN BEFORE ROE WAS OVERTURNED.

IT WAS 55-45 IN FAVOR OF ABORTION RIGHTS WITH RESTRICTIONS.

>> I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S WHY THEY DID ISSUE ONE IN AUGUST WAS BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WOULD PASS IN THE HIGH TO MID 50 -- MID TO HIGH 50s, AND THEY WANTED TO MAKE IT -- MOVE THE BAR UP.

AND SO I THINK THAT THEY KNEW THAT WAS COMING.

I DO THINK HINDSIGHT BEING 20/20 THEY PROBABLY COULD HAVE PASSED ANOTHER LAW THAT'S HAS AN EXCEPTION FOR RAPE OR INCEST, MAYBE A 15-WEEK BAN.

AND I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE WIND OUT OF THE SAILS OF THE PRO ISSUE ONE FOLKS.

>> THEY COULDN'T DO THAT.

THE REPUBLICANS IN CONTROL OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE HERE IN OHIO GOT TRAPPED.

AND THEY GOT TRAPPED FOR THE SAME REASON THAT THEY GET TRAPPED IN TOPICS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THIS GROUP OVER THE YEARS.

AND THAT IS BECAUSE GERRYMANDERING HAS JUST FILLED THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED FROM THEIR BASE FROM THE HARDENED BASE, SO THERE WAS NO WAY THEY COULD DO SOMETHING LIKE LAURA SUGGESTED.

BUT YES, THAT WOULD HAVE DONE IT.

>> EVEN GOVERNOR DeWINE WAS SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF OPINIONS -- MAJORITY OF OHIOANS DON'T AGREE WITH THE ROE DECISION, YOU KNOW, BUT 57% SAID YES, 14-POINT MARGIN.

DO WE EXPECT THIS TO GO BACK ON THE BALLOT ANY TIME SOON?

THERE WAS TALK OF THAT RIGHT AFTER THE VOTE WHEN EMOTIONS WERE HIGH.

>> I THINK MAYBE.

SO THE ARGUMENT THAT I'VE HEARD FROM REPUBLICANS NOW IS THEY THINK THAT THIS AMENDMENT AS IT WAS WRITTEN, THE ARGUMENT THEY'VE BEEN MAKING ALL ALONG, THAT IT WAS TOO BROAD, THAT IT WOULD ALLOW ALL KINDS OF ABORTIONS AND PERHAPS THINGS BEYOND ABORTION THAT OHIOANS DIDN'T INTEND.

I THINK THEY'RE KIND OF -- I DON'T KNOW, THEY'RE MAKING THIS ASSUMPTION THAT MAYBE OHIOANS WON'T LIKE THE WAY THIS AMENDMENT PLAYS OUT.

AND THEN MAYBE THERE WILL BE AN OPENING TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING MORE RESTRICTIVE IN THE FUTURE.

>> IF THOSE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO ROLL THIS AMENDMENT BACK.

>> I THINK IT'S HARD ANYANYWAY.

YOU LOOK ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE BILLS ARE ALL DIFFERENT, BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS IT OKLAHOMA WE HAD ONE OF THE FIRST ONES -- >> KANSAS.

>> KANSAS.

SOLID MIDWESTERN CONSERVATIVE STATE.

YOU KNOW, THEY AFFIRMED HAVING THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION.

AGAIN, IT WAS IN THE 55/45, WIDE MARGIN.

I DON'T SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>> THE ISSUE ONE -- YOU KNOW, THE FIRST ISSUE ONE, THE ONE THAT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED A 60% THRESHOLD TO PASS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, AND THEN ISSUE ONE IN NOVEMBER, THE ABORTION RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

LAURA, DO YOU THINK THE ISSUE -- HOW DID THAT ISSUE, THE FIRST ISSUE ONE PLAY?

DID IT EXHAUST ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS COMING INTO NOVEMBER, AND DID IT JUST FIRED UP ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTERS THAT CARRIED ONTO NOVEMBER?

>> I THINK THAT IT -- THEY KIND OF KICKED THE HORNETS NEST WITH THAT.

PEOPLE TURNED OUT IN HUGE NUMBERS FOR AN AUGUST ELECTION.

GOSH, THEY GOT RID OF AUGUST ELECTIONS BECAUSE THE TURNOUT HAD BEEN SO LOW IF PREVIOUS ELECTIONS.

AND I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT IT FIRED UP BOTH SIDES FOR THE NOVEMBER VOTE.

BUT THE POLLING SHOWED THAT REALLY THE YES WE WANT THIS -- WE WANT THESE RIGHTS WAS MUCH STRONGER.

>> JOE, WHAT DO YOU THINK LAWMAKERS DO NOW?

BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE THE 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD.

WE STILL HAVE THE MANDATORY TRANSFER AGREEMENTS WHERE CLINICS HAVE TO HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH A HOSPITAL FOR EMERGENCIES.

WE STILL HAVE THE PARENTAL CONSENT PART OF THE LAW.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> DO LAWMAKERS TINKER WITH ANY OF THAT, OR THAT WILL BE UP TO THE COURTS?

>> I THINK THAT WILL BE UP TO THE COURTS.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT JUST THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

HOW MUCH ROOM IS THERE WITHIN THE SYSTEM FOR THE ABORTION OPPONENTS OR THOSE THAT DON'T LIKE THIS PARTICULAR VERSION OF IT, TO NAVIGATE.

AND I THINK THE PARENTAL CONSENT OR AT LEAST PARENTAL INFORMATION WILL DEFINITELY BE SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT GET A LOT OF PUSHBACK ON.

THE STUFF ON THE CLINICS AND BEING ABLE FOR THE DOCTORS TO BE -- I FORGET THE TERM -- REGISTERED IN THE HOSPITAL AND ALL THAT, I THINK THOSE ACTUALLY WILL FALL.

BUT I THINK THE COURTS ARE GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT DEAL WITH IT.

>> ANNA, DO YOU THINK THIS DEBATE CALMS DOWN?

BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SUCH A POLARIZING DEBATE.

NOW THE VOTERS HAVE HAD THEIR SAY, EVEN MIKE ANADAKIS SAID THEY WOULD FOCUS ON KEEPING THE LAWS THEY HAVE BUT WORK ON CHANGING HEARTS AND MIND AND TRY TO ENCOURAGE WOMEN TO KEEP BABIES TO TERM, TO SUPPORT PRENATAL CARE AND SUPPORT AFTER BIRTH.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S WHERE THE ARGUMENT GOES NOW, THIS DEBATE GOES?

>> I ACTUALLY THINK IN THEY DID A LEGISLATIVE REPEAL IT WOULD BE ONE AND DONE, WHEREAS ALL THESE LAWS ARE GOING TO BE LITIGATED INDIVIDUALLY.

24-HOUR WAITING PERIODS, MANDATORY ULTRASOUNDS.

THERE'S A BUNCH OF INFORMATION THAT DOCTORS ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE A WOMAN IF SHE'S SEEKING AN ABORTION.

AND I ACTUALLY THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET NEW STORIES EACH AND EVERY TIME ONE OF THOSE GETS A DECISION.

IF YOU DID IT LEGISLATIVELY, THEORETICALLY YOU COULD DO IT ALL AT ONCE, AND THAT WOULD BE THE STORY, THEN YOU'D MOVE ON.

>> WILL THIS DEBATE MOVE ON, MIKE, DO YOU THINK?

AS A SOCIETI?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL EVER DIE, MIKE.

LIKE THE DEATH PENALTY.

MY WHOLE LIFE IT'S BEEN A DEBATE.

AND THIS IN A WAY IS A SIMILAR THING.

SO PEOPLE ARE ENTRENCHED ONE WAY, AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO GO ON FOR A LONG TIME.

DO I SEE ANY CHANGE IN THE NEAR FUTURE?

NO, I DON'T.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> IN OHIOANS ARE SO INCLINED, THEY CAN PUT MARIJUANA GUMMIES IN CHRISTMAS STOCKINGS THIS YEAR LEGALLY.

VOTERS LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA IN NOVEMBER.

THE LAW TOOK EFFECT EARLIER THIS MONTH.

NOW IT IS UP TO LAWMAKERS TO CHANGE THE LAW IF THEY WANT.

THE YEAR ENDS, HOWEVER, WITH THE LAW STANDING UNCHANGED FROM WHAT VOTERS APPROVED IN NOVEMBER.

JOE MAS, A YEAR FOR NOW, WILL OHIO LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT?

WILL IT SMELL A LOT DIFFERENT THAN IT DOES NOW WITH LEGAL MARIJUANA?

>> I ACTUALLY CAN ANSWER THAT BECAUSE I'VE TRAVELED TO CALIFORNIA, TO COLORADO, AND SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN MICHIGAN.

AND NO, IT WON'T SMELL ANY DIFFERENT.

FRANKLY, YOU CAN'T -- YOU CAN'T REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE BEING IN THOSE STATES.

YOU CAN'T.

ONE THING IN COMMON, BY THE WAY, IS THE ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN IN THE PAPERS LATELY, AND THAT IS BEING ABLE TO SMOKE IN PUBLIC PLACES.

NONE OF THOSE STATES ALLOW IT.

SO MORE THAN LIKELY THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF WHAT WE DO.

I ANTICIPATE -- AND OF COURSE IT WAS A SENATE BILL THAT DID PASS THE SENATE HERE IN OHIO BUT GOT STUCK IN THE HOUSE, THAT WAS RELATIVELY NORMAL, IF I MAY USE THE TERM.

NO PUN INTENDED.

>> WITH THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION -- WHATEVER IT IS.

LEGALIZED MARIJUANA.

YES, YES.

LAURA, AGAIN, LAWMAKERS, DID THEY MISREAD PUBLIC OPINION ON THIS AND NOT -- FOR TWO YEARS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT LEGALIZING RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA.

LAWMAKERS -- >> TALKING ABOUT IT LONGER THAN THAT.

>> SINCE MEDICAL BECAME LEGAL REALLY WE'VE STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT A LOT.

>> SURE.

THEY LEGALIZED MEDICAL AFTER THE 2015 MEDICAL AND RECREATIONAL FAILED BECAUSE OF KIND OF STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

AND I THINK THAT THAT PROMPTED THE LAWMAKERS TO SAY LET'S DO A ROBUST MEDICAL PROGRAM, MAYBE THAT WILL TAKE CARE OF THIS.

IT DID NOT.

I MEAN, THE DEMAND FOR RECREATIONAL WAS STILL THERE.

THEY COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, TAPERED THE LAW TO HOW THEY FELT WAS GOING TO BE THE BEST PACKAGE, ET CETERA, WHEN IT WAS SITTING IN FRONTS OF THEM FOR FOUR MONTHS.

THEY DECIDED TO ROLL THE DICE, SEE HOW THE VOTERS CAME OUT WITH AND NOW THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES.

IT'S NOT GOING OVER VERY WELL.

>> HOW DOES LAW ENFORCEMENT, MIKE, HOW DO THEY VIEW THIS NOW?

DOES THE -- A BURDEN LIFT OFF -- NOT THAT THEY WERE AGGRESSIVELY GOING AFTER MARIJUANA FOLKS LATELY ANYWAY, EARLY ON THEY DID, BUT NOT IN THE PAST DECADE OR SO.

IS THIS A BURDEN OFF OF THEIR PLATE, AND THEY CAN FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS NOW, OR NO?

>> I DON'T THINK SO, MIKE.

AS YOU SAY, I DON'T THINK THEY PAID MUCH ATTENTION TO IT.

A MINOR MISDEMEANOR OR SOMETHING WHICH IS NOTHING LIKE A SPEEDING TICKET, MAYBE LESS THAN THAT.

SO I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO REMOVE A LOT OF THEIR WORK, IT'S NOT NECESSARY ANYMORE.

MAY HELP A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK THE ONLY THING YOU'LL SEE IS PROBABLY YOU'LL SEE SOME MORE EXPENSE AND TIME ON DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE BECAUSE IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT AND MUCH MORE -- DEEPER PROCESS TO TEST SOMEBODY FOR USE OF DRUGS THAN IT IS FOR ALCOHOL.

THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

SO I THINK YOU'LL SEE MORE THAN THAT.

OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> NOW WE GET INTO THE RULEMAKING PHASE AND HOW QUICKLY THE MEDICAL DISPENSARIES CAN START SELLING MARIJUANA TO EVERYBODY OVER 21.

MIKE DeWINE MENTIONED -- GOVERNOR DeWINE MENTIONED HAD THEY GONE WITH THIS BILL, THEY COULD BE BUYING MARIJUANA IN JANUARY FOR FUN.

I'M NOT SURE THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, BUT THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> HE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THE BLACK MARKET.

AND NOW THAT MARIJUANA IS LEGAL, WHETHER PEOPLE WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO PURCHASE IT AND USE IT.

AND HE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT OBVIOUSLY THE POTENCY, THE QUALITY, WHAT YOU'RE GETTING BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW IF SOMETHING ELSE IS MIXED IN.

SO HE OFFERED IMMEDIATE SALES AT MARIJUANA -- MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES.

BUT THE HOUSE DIDN'T BIG THAT UP.

THEY SAID THEY STILL GOT TIME.

THEORETICALLY IT'S NEXT AUGUST, PROBABLY NEXT FALL THAT WE'LL BE SEEING RECREATIONAL SALES ONCE THE LICENSING WORKS THROUGH.

BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IT COULD COME SOONER.

>> DO WE EXPECT, LAURA, ANY BIG CHANGES TO THIS LAW AND WHEN THE LAWMAKERS COME BACK AFTER THE NEW YEAR?

>> I THINK THAT THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE ARE STILL AT ODDS OVER THIS, AND I THINK THAT THE LONGER WE GET INTO THE CURRENT SITUATION WHICH IS THAT IT'S LEGAL AND PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO PLANT THEIR PLANTS AND BAKE BROWNIES, I THINK IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO CHANGE THE LAW LATER.

>> NOW, BARS -- THERE WAS A DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE WHO REGULATES BARS AND LIQUOR LICENSES, THEY ADVISE BARS YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR PATRONS SMOKING EVEN ON THE PATIO, SMOKING MARIJUANA.

IS THAT THE CASE IN -- >> PULL THE LICENSE -- THAT'S CORRECT.

>> I THINK -- I DON'T THINK THERE'S THAT MUCH PUSHBACK ON THAT.

I THINK IT'S A REASONABLE PROVISION.

AS I SAID, THE OTHER STATES HAVE IT, AND THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO NAVIGATE THROUGH WITHOUT A PROBLEM.

SO NO.

>> LIKE OPEN CONTAINER, RIGHT?

YOU CAN'T WALK DOWN MOST STREETS WITH AN OPEN -- >> THERE ARE DORAs, THE SIGNS YOU CAN DRINK HERE.

THEN YOU GOT TO DUMP IT OUT WHEN YOU GET PAST THE SIGN.

>> WE WENT THROUGH A PERIOD LONG BEFORE MARIJUANA WITH SMOKING CIGARETTES.

AND SOME RESTAURANTS WOULD SAY NO SMOKING, SOME I KNOW WOULD SAY, YOU PREFER SMOKING OR NONSMOKING, WE WOULD SPLIT IT UP.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE MUCH OF A PROBLEM FOR ANYBODY.

THE BAR OWNERS OR RESTAURANT OWNERS WILL BE VERY CAREFUL WITH IT BECAUSE PAYING A FINE AND LOSING YOUR LICENSE IS A VERY, VERY SERIOUS MATTER.

THE SMOKER, NOTHING HAPPENS TO HIM, I DON'T THINK, OR HER.

>> OF COURSE SMOKING IS EASY TO SPOT.

POPPING A GUMMY, IT COULD BE A THROAT LOZENGE.

YOU DON'T KNOW.

>>> NOW A THREE-MONTH SBRINT TO THE PRIMARY FINISH FOR -- SPRINT TO THE PRIMARY FINISH FOR REPUBLICANS RUNNING IN THE U.S. SENATE.

THE THREE MAJOR CANDIDATES HAVE FILED THEIR PAPERWORK.

THEY ARE SENATOR MATT DOLAN, SECRETARY OF STATE FRANK LAROSE, AND CLEVELAND BUSINESSMAN BERNIE MORENO.

TWO HAD BEEN ANGLING FOR THE ENDORSEMENT OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

THIS WEEK TRUMP CHOSE BERNIE MORENO ANNOUNCING ON TRUTH SOCIAL THAT OHIO NEEDS AN OUTSIDER TO BEAT SHERROD BROWN.

DOES THIS CLINCH IT FOR BERNIE MORENO?

DO OHIO REPUBLICANS SEE THIS ENDORSEMENT AND FALL IN LINE TAKE THAT THEY DID WITH J.D.

VANCE?

>> IT HELPS HIM A GREAT DEAL.

DOES IT CLINCH IT, I DON'T THINK SO.

LAROSE HAS ONLY BEEN, AS WE KNOW, VERY PRO-TRUMP.

HE WANTED THE ENDORSEMENT IN THE WORST WAY, WHICH WE UNDERSTAND.

IT CARRIES WEIGHT IN OHIO.

BUT DOLAN IS SITTING THERE NOT KNOWING THAT AND IS VERY CONSERVATIVE ON HIS OWN RIGHT.

I THINK THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT -- TRUMP-TYPE PEOPLE THAT WILL SPLIT BETWEEN MORENO AND LAROSE.

I SUSPECT MORENO WILL GET THE MOST.

AND NEVER TRUMPERS WILL COALESCE AROUND DOLAN.

I DON'T THINK IT'S OVER YET BY ANY MEANS.

AND EVERYBODY, DOLAN AND MORENO ARE VERY WEALTHY AND CAN PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO IT.

AND NOW WE'VE GOT LAROSE -- YEAH, LAROSE JUST GOT A $3 MILLION DONATION.

SO LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY'S GOING TO HAVE SOME MONEY.

>> ANNA, THE DONATION CAME FROM RICHARD U.

LINE FROM ILLINOIS, DOES BUSINESS IN WISCONSIN.

THE GUY WHO GAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO THE FIRST ISSUE ONE CAMPAIGN, THE 60% THRESHOLD.

THAT'S A SHOT IN THE ARM FOR FRANK LAROSE AFTER THE DISAPPOINTSING NON-ENDORSEMENT.

>> YEAH.

ALSO KEEP IN MIND I THINK BERNIE'S GOT ABOUT $5 MILLION AND DOLAN'S GOT 6.

IT'S HALF OF WHAT THE OTHER GUYS HAVE.

MATT DOLAN'S FAMILY OWNS THE CLEVELAND GUARDIANS, BERNIE MORENO HAS CAR DEALERSHIPS, ALSO A MULTIMILLIONAIRE.

THEY CAN KEEP DUMPING AND DUMPING.

THAT'S THEIR CHOICE.

BUT HE WAS -- I THINK -- FRANK LAROSE, FRANK LAROSE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE OUTSPENT, RIGHT?

AND THIS IS ALWAYS BEEN A LARGER QUESTION, WHETHER HE COULD FUND-RAISE.

LET'S BE HONEST, SHERROD BROWN IS GOING TO HAVE A TON OF MONEY COME NOVEMBER.

AND YOU'RE GOING TO NEED A REPUBLICAN THAT CAN REALLY RAISE THE MONEY.

>> $3 MILLION, IT'S -- ONLY THREE MONTHS UNTIL THE MARCH PRIMARY.

SO $3 MILLION COULD GET FRANK LAROSE ON THE AIR ENOUGH TO AT LEAST KEEP PACE WITH BERNIE MORENO, RIGHT -- >> AND KEEP IN MIND THAT FRANK LAROSE HAS BEEN ELECTED STATEWIDE TWICE.

MORENO AND DOLAN HAVE NOT.

SO HE HAS AN ADVANTAGE ON THAT LEVEL.

SO MAYBE HE DOESN'T NEED AS MUCH MONEY TO GET HIS NAME OUT THERE, HIS NAME'S ALREADY BEEN ON THE BALLOT.

>> THE POLLS ARE INCONCLUSIVE.

OF COURSE, WE'RE NOT REALLY GETTING TRUE POLL NUMBERS.

WE'RE HEARING ABOUT INTERNAL POLLS SHOWING BERNIE MORENO AHEAD.

WE HAVE A SURVEY USA POLL THAT HAS FRANK LAROSE AHEAD, BUT THE QUESTIONS ON THE METHODOLOGY THERE.

SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A GOOD, SOLID GAUGE ON WHERE THIS RACE STANDS RIGHT NOW.

>> I THINK THE INTERESTING THING IS WHAT DIRECTION IS LAROSE GOING TO TAKE.

NOW THAT TRUMP HAS MADE HIS ANNOUNCEMENT, DOES THAT MEAN THAT LAROSE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY -- I THINK AS MIKE IMPLIED -- TO PERHAPS CARVE HIS OWN PATH, OR IS HE STILL TRYING TO REACH OUT TO THE TRUMP BASE?

OR DO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING, TRYING NOT TO OFFEND TRUMP VERY MUCH BUT STILL SOUND TRUMPIAN.

>> WE HAVE A LONG TIME TO GO BEFORE EVEN MARCH.

THE BAD NEWS KEEPS PILING UP FOR DRUM.

HE'S BEEN ABLE TO WEATHER -- FOR DONALD TRUMP.

HE'S BEEN ABLE TO WEATHER IT.

IF HE GOES ON TRIAL OR IF THE COLORADO SUPREME COURT RULING STANDS, AND THIS -- THE CHINKS IN THE ARMOR, MIGHT THAT NOT MAKE THE ENDORSEMENT AS VALUABLE?

>> WELL, IT MIGHT.

I DOUBT IT.

IT'S A -- TRUMP IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF PERSON.

HIS SUPPORTERS SEEM TO BE WEDDED TO HIM REGARDLESS.

I POINT TO AN INCIDENT, YOU KNOW, IN 2016 WHEN HE WAS RUNNING.

HE ATTACKED -- FOR NOW REASON, NO ONE HAD SAID ANYTHING -- HE JUST CAME DOWN AND ATTACKED JOHN McCAIN.

AND I -- I DON'T KNOW A DEMOCRAT THAT DISLIKES JOHN McCAIN.

HE'S A WAR HERO, HE WAS A WONDERFUL PERSON.

HE -- ALL THIS SORT OF THING.

I THOUGHT WATCHING THIS, WELL, THAT -- HE'S GOING RIGHT DOWN THE TUBES.

THEY DID A POLL ABOUT TWO DAYS LATER, AND HE WENT UP.

>> YEAH.

>> SO JUST TO ME, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE IT.

>> AND YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE DON'T KNOW YET BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AFTER THE 1st OF THE YEAR, NEW HAMPSHIRE, IOWA, NIKKI HALEY COMING UP A BIT, RON DeSANTIS STILL THERE.

IF THEY OVERPERFORM, THAT COULD PERHAPS TURN SOME NEVER TRUMPERS OFF.

>> THAT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.

DIDN'T TED CRUZ WIN IOWA IN 2016?

I BELIEVE SO.

SOMETIMES -- YOU NEVER KNOW.

YOU CAN GET IOWA, THE CAUCUS SYSTEM WHERE YOU FIGHT IT OUT IN PERSON IN CLASSROOMS ACROSS THE STATE.

SO YOU NEVER QUITE KNOW HOW THAT'S GOING TO SHAKE OUT.

IT'S KIND OF A WILD PROCESS.

BUT I WOULD BE REALLY SURPRISED IF OHIO DIDN'T GO FOR TRUMP.

I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ONE OF THE FIRST STATE PARTIES TO ENDORSE HIM.

HE STILL HAS, YOU KNOW, EIGHT, NINE, TEN-POINT LEADS IN POLLING.

I THINK THAT'S PROBLEMATIC FOR LAROSE BECAUSE TRUMP'S GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT RIGHT NEXT TO HIM.

AND I -- J.D.

VANCE HAS ALSO ENDORSED BERNIE MORENO.

IF THE THREE OF THEM GET TOGETHER AND CAMPAIGN TOGETHER IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH, THAT'S GOING TO BE HARD.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> LET'S GET TO OUR LAST TOPIC.

2023 SAW A FEDERAL JURY CONVICT FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER LARRY HOUSEHOLDER AND LOBBIEST MATT BORGES ON ROCK TEARING CHARGES IN THE NUCLEAR PLANT BAILOUT SCANDAL.

THEY NOW LIVE IN FEDERAL PRISON.

THIS MONTH THE STATE'S FORMER CHIEF UTILITY REGULATOR WAS INDICTED FOR BRIBERY IN THAT SAME CASE.

SAM RANDAZZO HAS PLEADED NOT GUILTY.

WE ENTER 2024 WAITING TO SEE IF OTHERS WILL BE CHARGED, NAMELY EXECUTIVES AT FIRST ENERGY.

THE COMPANY THAT SAYS IT BRIBED SAM RANDAZZO.

LAURA BISCHOFF, THE TRIAL, IF THERE'S A TRIAL, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN '24.

YOU THINK NEXT YEAR WILL BE THE END OF THE INVESTIGATION IN THIS CASE?

AND ALL THAT WILL BE CHARGED WILL BE CHARGED BY THE END OF NEXT YEAR?

'24?

>> YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY YES, BUT IT'S A FEDERAL SYSTEM, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY MOVE AT A GLACIER PACE.

TOOK 2.5 YEARS BETWEEN THE TIME THAT THEY ARRESTED AND INDICTED MATT BORGES AND LARRY HOUSEHOLDER TO TAKE THEM TO TRIAL.

I THINK THE SAM RANDAZZO ONE WILL MOVE MORE QUICKLY.

BUT IT ALSO DEPENDS ON IF THEY'RE GOING TO INDICT OTHER PEOPLE, THEY GOING TO DO A SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT AND ADD THEM TO THE RANDAZZO INDICTMENT, ARE THEY GOING TO DO IT SEPARATELY?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR STRATEGIES ARE.

KEN PARKER, THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT, SAYS THAT HIS TEAM IS STILL WORKING ON THE CASE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO GO WHEREVER THE EVIDENCE TAKES THEM.

>> MIKE, HOW WILL THIS PLAY OUT DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS?

DO YOU SEE THE FIRST ENERGY EXECUTIVES BEING CHARGED OR PERHAPS WORKING OUT A PLEA DEAL?

IT MAY HAVE TAKEN PLACE A YEAR AGO IN THE FEDERAL COURTS.

YOU CAN ENTER A PLEA, THEY CAN SEAL EVERYTHING.

AND SO YOU'LL HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE PLED TO THIS THING, HAVEN'T BEEN SENTENCED, OF COURSE, THAT NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT.

AND WHEN YOU'VE GOT THE PEOPLE FROM FIRST ENERGY, IF YOU ACCEPT WHAT THEY SAY IS ACCURATE SAYING WE DID THE BRIBING, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU COULD AVOID NOT CHARGING THOSE PEOPLE.

AND -- AS I SAY, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF IT'S ALREADY DONE AND THEY'RE JUST AWAITING SENTENCING.

BUT THE PLEA HAS BEEN SEALED FROM THE PUBLIC FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

>> YEAH.

AND THESE FEDERAL CASES, AS MIKE JUST SUGGESTED, YOU WANT TO BE FIRST IN LINE.

YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANTS TO START SAYING, OH, YOU KNOW, I REALLY DIDN'T DO THIS, AND THEN HAVE RANDAZZO AS PARTS SOME SORT OF A PLEA DEAL SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS GUY WAS INVOLVED, AND HE WAS INVOLVED IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WITH IT.

>> THE SYSTEM THAT LED TO THIS REMAINS IN PLACE.

THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT REFORMING THINGS AT THE STATE HOUSE, HASN'T GONE ANYWHERE.

HOUSE BILL 6 IS STILL IN EFFECT.

COAL PLANTS GOT SUBSIDIES, THEY STILL GET THEM.

THE RENEWABLE ENERGY MANDATES ARE GONE, ANNA.

DO WE -- IS DARK MONEY, MONEY STILL GOING TO PLAY AS BIG A ROLE AS IT HAS GOING FORWARD?

>> I WOULD ASSUME SO.

I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S CHANGED LEGALLY SPEAKING ABOUT HOW WE COLLECT IT.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE FASCINATING THINGS ABOUT THE TRIAL WAS JUST GETTING TO SEE ALL OF THAT MONEY AND HOW IT WAS FUNNELED AND WHERE IT WENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET TO SEE THAT AS A REPORTER OR AS A, YOU KNOW, JUST -- EVEN POLITICIANS WERE FLABBERGASTED AT THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES LOOK AT HOW IT'S FUNNELED.

UNFORTUNATELY THERE'S BEEN -- A NUMBER OF BILLS INTRODUCED, I WILL SAY THAT, NUMBERS OF BILLS INTRODUCED BUT THEY HAVE NOT GONE ANYWHERE.

>> YOU WERE IN THE COURTROOM WHEN HOUSEHOLDER WAS SENTENCED AND LED IMMEDIATELY TO PRISON.

IT WASN'T ON TV.

IF YOU'RE A STATEHOUSE PERSON AND YOU SEE THAT, YOU HEAR, THAT WOULDN'T THAT PROMPT YOU -- LARRY HOUSEHOLDER, ONE OF THE DOMINANT FIGURES IN THE STATEHOUSE FOR A LONG TIME, IS IN JAIL NOW.

>> I MEAN, I SAW IT LIVE IN PERSON JUST FEET AWAY.

I WAS GRAB GASTROED.

THERE IS A -- FLABBERGASTED.

THIS IS A GUY I COVERED FOR 20 YEARS.

THE MESSAGE GOT CONVEYED VIA THE MEDIA.

PEOPLE READ THE STORIES.

BUT I THINK PEOPLE COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS LARRY HOUSEHOLDER, AND HE -- HE WENT WAY OVER THE LINE INTO PAY TO PLAY.

AND I'M USING A DARK MONEY GROUP, BUT I'M FOLLOWING THE LAWS ON IT.

I'M NOT DOING QUID PRO QUO.

SO HE'S A CAUTIONARY TALE, BUT I THINK PEOPLE COULD SAY THAT'S NOT MY TALE.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M DOING.

>> JOE, YOU DON'T SEE ANY BIG REFORMS COMING ON CAMPAIGN FINANCING IN OHIO?

MORE TRANSPARENCI?

>> OH, NO.

NO, NO.

I JUST -- I JUST DON'T THINK SO.

>> WE DON'T HAVE -- >> THE DYNAMICS TO BE ABLE TO GET THAT DONE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

PERHAPS PREDICTIONS FOR '24.

MIKE, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

>> WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS, BUT I THINK THE SENATE RACE IS GOING TO BE REALLY AN EXCITING RACE BETWEEN THE THREE REPUBLICANS AND WHOEVER WINS GOES AGAINST SHERROD BROWN AND THE SENATE, THE UNITED STATES SENATE IS SO TIGHT, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT RACE TO BOTH PARTIES.

IT COULD BE THEORETICALLY CONTROLLING OF THE SENATE.

SO I THINK FROM NOW ON UNTIL ELECTION IN NOVEMBER WE'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF ACTION IN THE MEDIA AND SO FORTH ON THAT RACE.

>> JOE?

>> MIKE, SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING HAPPENED THIS WEEK.

THE EUROPEAN UNION ENGAGED IN DISCUSSIONS CONCERNING IMMIGRATION.

AND AT THE SAME TIME.

WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS WERE DOING THE SAME THING HERE IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE INCREASE IN ASYLUM APPLICANTS.

THIS IS A MAJOR ENHANCEMENT, A MAJOR REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATS HAVE GOT TO SOMEHOW COME UP WITH A WAY TO ADDRESS THIS AND ADDRESS THE HUMANITARIAN ISSUES, AS WELL.

>> ANNA?

>> THE POLITICAL NEWS ISN'T OVER FOR THE YEAR YET.

GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE HAS A CONTROVERSIAL BILL DEALING WITH TRANSGENDER CHILDREN.

AND WE'RE STILL GOING TO BE WATCHING FOR THE LAST DAYS TO SEE WHETHER HE SIGNS IT OR VETOES IT.

>> LAURA?

>> YEAH, I DID A STORY ON THE EXPEDITED PARDON PROJECT WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT GOVERNOR DeWINE STARTED.

IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU GET A GOVERNOR'S PARDON, IT'S LIKE WINNING THE LOTTERY.

NOW THERE ARE MORE TICKETS AVAILABLE.

THIS IS A PROCESS WHERE LAW STUDENTS AND FACULTY WILL HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE TEN YEARS OUT FROM THEIR SENTENCE GO AHEAD AND GET THE PARDON AND GET THAT -- GET THE HURDLES THAT A CRIMINAL CONVICTION PRESENTS TO YOU, GET THOSE WIPED OUT.

>> SOMETHING TO WATCH FOR.

I PREDICT AS A SYRACUSE GRAD AND OSU GRAD WILL WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, WIN THE HEISMAN, GET DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS AND LEAD THEM TO THE SUPER BOWL.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ON LINE, FACEBOOK, AND AT WOSU.ORG/COTR, YOUTUBE, AND THE VIDEO APP BY PBS.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.