>>> MAP MAKING IS COMPLETE AT THE STATE HOUSE.

FOR NOW.

♪♪ >>   JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD," THE PROSECUTOR, JOSEPH MOSS OF THE OHIO HISPANIC COALITION, AND STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH.

IN QUICK FASHION AND WITH A FEW DAYS TO SPARE.

THE OHIO LAWMAKERS THIS WEEK LOCKED UP THE 2021 REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

AT LEAST FOR THE TIME BEING.

THE GOP CONTROLLED SENATE IN HOUSE APPROVED A GOP DRAWN CONGRESSIONAL MAP.

IT FAVORS REPUBLICANS, ARE REPUTABLE REDISTRICTING IN THE CASE OF 11 OF THE DISTRICTS CLEARLY FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

TWO CLEARLY FOR THE DEMOCRATS, AND TWO ARE COMPETITIVE.

ONE LEANING RED, THE OTHER LEANING BLUE.

REPUBLICANS SAY IS MAP IS CONSTITUTIONAL AND KEEPS SEVEN OF THE STATE'S LARGEST CITIES WHOLE IN THEIR DISTRICTS.

DEMOCRATS CALL UNFAIR GERRYMANDERING AND THEY CALL ON GOVERNOR DeWINE TO VETO IT, AND THE COURT CHALLENGE IS STILL OUT THERE.

AT THE STATE HOUSE, IS THERE ANY CHANCE THAT THOSE THAT KNOW THAT MIKE DeWINE MIGHT VETO THIS MAP?

>> I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT.

I SUSPECT HE'S PROBABLY GOING TO SIGN IT.

THE FIRST ITERATION OF THE SENATE REPUBLICANS CAME OUT WITH HE SAID HE WASN'T A FAN OF BUT THEY MADE MORE EFFORT TO KEEP THE BIG CITIES TOGETHER AND SOME OTHER COUNTIES TOGETHER.

SO I SUSPECT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HEAR IS THERE ARE THINGS I LIKE AND THINGS I DON'T LIKE BUT ULTIMATELY HE'S GOING TO SIGN IT.

>> YEAH, WITH A PRIMARY LOOMING HE'S NOT GOING TO WANT TO ANGER TOO MANY REPUBLICANS.

JOSEPH MOSS, AS YOU LOOK AT THAT, IS THIS BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

THE DISTRICTS ON THE WHOLE ARE MORE COMPETITIVE, NOT THE 20 POINT SWINGS WE'RE SEEING, AS MANY 20 POINT SWINGS AS WE SEE ON THE CURRENT MAP.

BUT INSTEAD LEANS PRETTY FAR TO THE RIGHT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> STILL PARTISAN.

AND IT'S TROUBLING, AND I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THIS ISN'T SOMETHING CONFINED TO OHIO.

I LOOKED THIS UP, AND EVEN IN STATES THAT HAVE HAD TO RESORT TO, OR HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESORT TO TO A LESS PARTISAN TYPE OF PROCEDURE, THERE'S STILL PROBLEMS.

THERE ARE THREE STATES, COLORADO, ARIZONA AND VIRGINIA, THAT HAVE HAD, I THINK, THE BEST LUCK IN TRYING TO DO THIS, BUT THIS WAS DESTINED TO BE.

THE FACT THAT THIS PARTICULAR OPTION ONLY GIVES THE LONGEVITY OF THE PLAN FOUR YEARS DOESN'T MATTER IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN POWER IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS ANYWAY.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE IT DID NOT GET REALLY ANY DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT AND WOULD ONLY LAST FOUR YEARS SHOULD IT SURVIVE THE COURT CHALLENGES, WHICH BRING ME TO OUR OTHER MEMBER ON THE PANEL.

MIKE, THE CONSTITUTION PROHIBITS A MAP THAT UNDULY FAVORS ONE PARTY OVER THE OTHER.

WHAT IS THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF UNDULY?

>> THE JUDGE YOU'RE TALKING TO, I WOULD THINK.

THAT'S A WORD THAT DOESN'T HAVE A PRECISE DEFINITION, OF COURSE, AND I DON'T CARE WHO DRAWS THIS MAP.

IF THE DEMOCRATS WERE IN CHARGE OR THE REPUBLICANS WERE IN CHARGE, I THINK YOU SEE A LOT OF STATES WHERE THE DEMOCRATS ARE IN CHARGE, AS JOE SAID YOU HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.

IT'S GOING TO BE AS PARTISAN AS THEY CAN POSSIBLY MAKE IT AND IN THEIR JUDGMENT STILL WITHSTAND ANY CONSTITUTIONAL CHALLENGE.

THAT'S HUMAN NATURE.

I THINK THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE AND WHOEVER'S ON THE SHORT END IS GOING TO KNOW IT'S NOT FAIR, GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT, AND DEPENDS WHICH STATE YOU'RE IN, WHO'S DOING THE YELLING.

>> AND THE OHIO SUPREME COURT CASE, WHICH THEY'RE ALREADY LOOKING AT THE STATE LEGISLATIVE MAPS, THE OHIO HOUSE AND THE OHIO SENATE MAPS.

THIS COULD END UP -- BUT THERE'S ALSO A POSSIBLE VOTING RIGHTS ACT CHALLENGE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTIVISTS ARE SAYING IS HOW CINCINNATI IS BROKEN UP.

AFRICAN AMERICANS FEEL THEY'RE BEING DISENFRANCHISED, MORE OR LESS.

>> HAMILTON COUNTY HAS 820,000 PEOPLE, ROUGHLY, WHICH IS MORE THAN A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

SO IT DOES HAVE TO GET SPLIT.

BUT WHAT THEY'RE ARGUING IS THE WAY IN WHICH HAMILTON COUNTY WAS SPLIT UP DIVIDES THE MINORITY COMMUNITY.

SO YOU HAVE THE CITY OF CINCINNATI WITH A MUCH WIDER SUBURBAN AREA AND THEN YOU HAVE OTHER PARTS OF HAMILTON.

I BELIEVE IT'S BROKEN INTO THREE SEPARATE DISTRICTS SO ALTHOUGH CINCINNATI'S TOGETHER, HAMILTON IS IN THREE DIFFERENT DISTRICTS AND THEY'RE MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT IT'S CALLED CRACKING, AND THE IDEA IS THAT YOU SEVER THE COMMUNITY INTO DIFFERENT DISTRICTS TO DELETE THEIR VOTING POWER.

>> JOE MOSS, THE DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS FAVOR AFRICAN AMERICAN CANDIDATES.

THE DISTRICT UP IN THE CLEVELAND AREA.

THEY ARGUE THAT THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE -- IN PARTICULAR ARGUING THAT IT MAKES SURE YOU HAVE THE REPRESENTATION IN CONGRESS.

IS THAT NOT A GOOD THING ABOUT THIS MAP?

>> WELL, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION, AND I'LL TELL YOU, I WANT TO TAKE FORWARD MIKE MILLER'S VERY THOUGHTFUL COMMENTARY THERE.

BECAUSE THERE'S POLITICS AND THERE'S POLITICS.

YOU CAN HAVE POLITICS WHERE YOU WANT TO DO IS KEEP ALL THE COOKIES FOR YOURSELF AND THEN THERE'S POLITICS WHERE YOU CAN COME TO A COMPROMISE, AND YOU CAN GIVE A LITTLE BIT AND TAKE A LITTLE BIT.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT'S THE FIRST DEFINITION THAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IN OHIO, I THINK, IN BETWEEN US.

AS I SUGGESTED, WE'RE COMING A LITTLE CLOSER TO GIVING A LITTLE AND TAKING A LITTLE.

>> AS FOR WHAT HAPPENS IF THE COURT SAYS THESE ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, DOES IT GO BACK TO LAWMAKERS?

>> YEAH, WELL, TECHNICALLY I THINK IT GOES BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS.

SO I'M TRYING TO -- I THINK THAT IS SENT TO THE COMMISSION.

>> YEAH.

>> WE SKIPPED OVER THAT PART BECAUSE OF THE DELAY AND WENT STRAIGHT TO THE LAWMAKERS.

BUT YEAH, IT GOES BACK TO THE STARTING POINT AND WE START ALL OVER AGAIN.

I'M NOT EXACTLY -- >> YEAH, GOING BACK, YOU HAVE THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE PRESIDENT AND THE GOVERNOR, THEY ALL MAKES LAWS TOO, NOT THE SECRETARY OF STATE, PER SE, BUT YEAH.

THE FILING DEADLINE IS SET TO BE FEBRUARY.

HAD TO PUSH IT BACK BECAUSE OF THE DELAY WITH THE MAY PRIMARIES.

CANDIDATES HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEIR VOTERS ARE SO THEY CAN START LOOKING FOR THOSE VOTES.

>> WELL, THAT'S TRUE AND I DON'T KNOW, I SUPPOSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE, I'M SURE IT HAS.

BUT I THINK THE CANDIDATES WILL BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT A PRETTY GOOD PERCENTAGE ON WHO'S GOING TO BE WHERE AND SO ON.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL BE 100% THEY KNOW WHAT THE DISTRICT IS BUT IT'S GOING TO BE VERY CLOSE, I WOULD ASSUME.

>> MIKE, IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO DO THIS.

THEY HAVE AS INDEPENDENT A COMMISSION AS POSSIBLE YOU COULD HAVE.

NEVER GOING TO BE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT.

IS THERE A BETTER WAY OF DOING THIS, DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, MIKE, I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

IT'S JUST SO DIFFICULT BECAUSE, AS I SAY, WHOEVER IS IN POWER IS JUST -- IT'S HUMAN NATURE, I THINK, TRYING TO PUT THINGS AS BEST THEY CAN THEIR WAY, WITHOUT MAKING IT APPEAR, YOU KNOW, JUST TERRIBLY UNFATHER.

BUT AGAIN, AND I'M NOT BLAMING ANYBODY FOR THIS, I JUST THINK WHOEVER'S IN POWER IS GOING TO BE CRITICIZED REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY DO BY WHOEVER IS NOT IN POWER.

IF IT'S 55-45.

THEY'LL SAY IT SHOULD BE 54-47.

IF IT'S 53-47, IT SHOULD BE 51-49, THAT TYPE OF THING.

I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, BUT THIS IS JUST A TOUGH PROBLEM TO SOLVE OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POLITICAL VIEWS AND SO FORTH ARE GOING TO GET TOGETHER AND DECIDE WHAT'S FAIR.

I'D LIKE TO SEE IT WORK, AND I HOPE IT DOES WORK.

BUT I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE THAT IT ULTIMATELY WILL.

>> OKAY.

WE HOPED -- IT'S LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE A TREND, COVID CASES ARE ON THE RISE AGAIN IN OHIO.

IT'S THE SAME IN OTHER MIDWESTERN STATES AS COOLER WEATHER AS PEOPLE INSIDE MORE OFTEN.

THE OHIO LEGISLATURE MOVED THIS WEEK TO PREVENT EMPLOYERS FROM FORCING THEIR WORKERS TO GET VACCINATED.

THE HOUSE PASSED A BILL THAT BANS MANDATES FOR VACCINES NOT FULLY APPROVED BY THE FDA AND IT BROADENS LEGAL EXEMPTIONS TO INCLUDE PERSONAL CONSCIOUS, THEY DECENT WANT THE VACCINE.

OHIO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE PRESIDENT IS USUALLY NOT ONE TO USE HYPERBOLE CALLED THE BILL LEGISLATIVE TERRORISM AND AKIN TO CHINESE COMMUNISM.

PRETTY STRONG WORDS FOR A REPUBLICAN TOWARDS HIS REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES.

PART OF THEM, RIGHT?

>> YES, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ARE ELECTED OFFICE AND THEN HAVE A RESPONSIBLE JOB LIKE THAT.

BUT LOOK, THE FACTS BEHIND THIS ENTIRE THING FRANKLY -- WE'RE STILL RUNNING ABOUT 136 CASES PER 100,000.

THE POSITIVITY PERCENTAGE IS DOWN, BELOW 8%, WHICH WAS A MARKER FOR WHEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO AWAY WITH MASK MANDATES, BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT THIS IS NOW COMING BACK TO PRIVATE INDUSTRY.

AND ORGANIZATIONS.

AND WHAT CAN GOVERNMENT DO TO AFFECT OR CONTROL THAT?

AND THAT'S INTERESTING THAT HE WOULD TAKE THAT STRONG A POSITION?

>> HE WANTS EMPLOYERS TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO KEEP THEIR EMPLOYEES AND THEIR CUSTOMERS SAFE IF THEY WANT TO.

BUT YEAH, THIS IS MORE LIMITED THAN THE PUZZLES THAT WERE OUT THERE BEFORE.

IT'S JUST A COVID-19 VACCINE, JUST THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN -- ON THE EMERGENCY APPROVAL LIST.

IS THIS CLOSEST TO A BALLOT BETWEEN PROTECTING SOMEONE'S LIFE, NOT TO TAKE A MEDICINE THEY DON'T WANT BUT ALSO TRYING TO KEEP OTHER FOLKS SAFE?

>> YEAH, MIKE, I BASICALLY AGREE WITH STEVE SIVERS.

I MIGHT NOT USE THOSE WORDS.

I BELIEVE REPUBLICANS ARE WRONG IN THIS.

I THINK THAT BUSINESS OWNERS SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE OF HOW THEY WANT TO ROUN THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT BY NOT DOING SO YOU'RE PUTTING OTHERS AT RISK AND SOMEHOW IT SEEMS TO ME YOU'VE GOT TO COME DOWN ONE SIDE ON THE OTHER AND I THINK THIS BILL THAT'S BEEN PASSED BY BASICALLY THE REPUBLICANS, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S THE WAY TO GO.

WE'RE ALL IN DANGER.

WE KNOW WHAT THIS -- HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THIS DISEASE HAS KILLED AND TO ME, POLITICS HAS TO STAY OUT OF IT AND YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING TO BETH PROTECT ALL OF US.

REGARDLESS OF OUR POLITICAL LOOKS.

WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER AND I JUST THINK THIS BILL IS WAY OVERREACHING AND SHOULD NOT OCCUR.

>> HOW DOES THIS COME UP FOR A VOTE?

I SEEM TO RECALL THE LAST TIME THIS WAS TRIED.

SAYING WE'RE DONE WITH THIS FOR NOW, WE'VE GOT MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO BUT HERE IT WAS, HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT THIS WEEK?

>> WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT THE REPUBLICANS THAT WANTED THIS TO PASS REALIZED THAT THEY COULD FORCE A VOTE BY THREATENING NOT TO VOTE FOR THE REDISTRICTING MAPS.

SO ESSENTIALLY IT BECAME, IF YOU WANT THIS CONGRESSIONAL MAP, WE WANT OUR VACCINE VOTE.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WAS SOME TRADING GOING ON.

SO THEY DECIDED TO GO FORWARD WITH THIS BUT IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT PASSING THE HOUSE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOING TO BECOME LAW.

THE SENATE PRESIDENT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A FAN OF THIS BILL.

MATT HOFFMAN'S BEEN PRETTY CLEAR THAT HE THINKS BUSINESSES SHOULD MAKE THIS DECISION.

HE SAID PRETTY CLEARLY THAT, YOU KNOW, BUSINESSES SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO MANDATE MASKS IN THEIR STORES, AND THEY SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO MANDATE VACCINES.

>> IT ALSO -- GOVERNOR DeWINE COULD VETO THIS.

>> YOU NEED DEMOCRATS FOR THAT, AND THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY NOT GOING TO GET THEM.

>> HAS THE GOVERNOR COMMENTED ON THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION?

IN THE PAST HE'S BEEN RELUCTANT TO SUPPORT THIS OUTRIGHT BAN FROM VACCINE MANDATES FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

>> NOT THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY BUT HE'S BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT HE WILL VETO THESE KINDS OF BILLS BROADLY.

IF I WERE TO BET I WOULD BET HE WOULD VETO IT IF IT GOT TO HIM.

>> SOME COMPANIES AND INSTITUTIONS HAVE VACCINE MANDATES.

OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY HAS A VACCINE MANDATE FOR ITS STUDENTS, STAFF AND EMPLOYEES.

BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE OHIO STATE HAS NOT FIRED ANYBODY YET.

THEY'VE TRIED TO WORK WITH THEM.

BRING PEOPLE ALONG SLOWLY, WORKED ON THE EXEMPTION, TESTED MORE FREQUENTLY.

SHOULD COMPANIES BE TOUGHER?

WOULD THAT FORCE THOSE ONES ON THE FENCE TO GET THE VACCINE?

NOT THE DIE HEARTS BUT THE ONES WHO ARE NOT SURE IF THEY SHOULD GET THE VACCINE ONCE AND FOR ALL.

>> THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO DO.

AND I THINK THAT -- I MEAN, OHIO STATE, FOR ONE, OHIO UNIVERSITY FOR ANOTHER, THE VACCINATION RATES ARE EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH.

I THINK IT'S 89 FOR OU, AND 93 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR OHIO STATE.

AND THE OTHER PEOPLE, YEAH, YOU TRY TO WORK WITH THEM.

UNLESS THEY'RE JUST PROBLEM PEOPLE ANYWAY, AND THAT'S HOW IT GOES.

AND YOU LOOK AT THE NATIONAL PICTURE, THEN YOU HAVE SITUATIONS AS YOU DID WITH PUBLIC SAFETY AND PUBLIC SAFETY IN CHICAGO WHERE YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE PUSHING BACK PURELY FOR POLITICAL REASONS AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE IN THE SHOES WITH THE MAYORS OF EITHER CITY.

>> THERE'S LOTS OF FEDERAL MONEY COMING TO OHIO TO HELP US FIX THINGS UP.

THE FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING BILL SIGNED INTO LAW THIS WEEK WOULD SAVE ABOUT $12.5 BILLION GIVE OR TAKE TO OHIO.

IT WOULD SPEND $9.7 BILLION TO FIX HIGHWAYS AND BRIDGES, $1.2 BILLION TO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

$140 MILLION FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING STATIONS, $100 MILLION TO EXPAND OR IMPROVE BROADBAND ACCESS AND $1 BILLION TO FIX THE PIPES.

HE SAYS THAT THE BIPARTISAN NATURE OF THIS EFFORT SHOULD BE THE NORM, NOT THE EXCEPTION.

>> INCREASING POLARIZATION OF OUR COUNTRY IS KEEPING US FROM GETTING THINGS DONE AND WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO BETTER.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT US TO SEE US COMING TOGETHER, THEY KNOW THAT DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE IT OUT.

AND WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE BIG PROBLEMS.

WE CAN START BY RECOGNIZING THAT FINDING COMMON GROUND TO ADVANCE THE INTERESTS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD BE REWARDED, NOT ATTACKED.

>> THE SENATE WHO'S LEAVING OFFICE.

THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY COMING IN BUT IT COULD BE A WHILE BEFORE WE REALLY SEE THE BULLDOZERS AND THE CRANES AND THE DIGGING AROUND ROADS AND BRIDGES AND HIGHWAYS.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE THE MONEY ACTUALLY GOES TO THE STATES FIRST AND THEN THE STATE GETS TO DECIDE HOW TO DIVVY IT UP.

THERE'S A LITTLE PROCEDURE THERE, AND THAT'S HOW IT WENT WITH THE CARES ACT.

MONEY GOES TO THE STATE WITH CERTAIN PARAMETERS ON HOW THEY SPEND IT AND THEN THE STATE GETS THE ALLOCATE IT OUT SO IT WILL MOVE TO THE LEGISLATURE FIRST.

>> DOES THE STATE HAVE ANY -- $1.4 BILLION FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, FOR INSTANCE, DOES IT HAVE TO BE SPENT ON THAT?

>> YEAH, BUT THERE'S A LONG STANDING ARGUMENT OVER HOW THESE GET SPENT AND WHERE THESE GET SPENT.

ONE ASPECT THAT PETE BUTTIGIEG, THE TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS EQUITY, AND THAT'S BEEN MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WEALTHY COMMUNITIES DON'T GET ALL THEIR POTHOLES FIXED WHEREAS THE POOR MINORITY COMMUNITIES DON'T MAKE THE LIST OF PROJECTS.

>> FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, IS THIS TOO MUCH MONEY?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW, MIKE, WHETHER IT'S TOO MUCH OR NOT.

I JUST KNOW IT'S A LOT.

THERE'S SO MUCH MONEY INVOLVED.

BUT A NUMBER OF THINGS, WE ALL KNOW WE NEED TO KEEP THE HIGHWAYS REPAIRED, THE BRIDGES GOOD, ALL THAT SORT OF THING.

AND CLEAN DRINKING WATER.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

ONE THING I DID NOTICE IN ONE OF THE ARTICLES THEY SAID THIS MAY BE SOMETHING WHERE OHIO CAN NOW HAVE AMTRAK COME IN AND CONNECT CLEVELAND AND COLUMBUS AND CINCINNATI AND DAYTON, I THINK.

YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S GREAT.

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IDEA HAS BEEN FLOATED A NUMBER OF TIMES IN CENTRAL OHIO, AND IT'S ALWAYS TAKEN BACK BECAUSE THEY FIND THAT IT IS SO EXORBITANT, THE EXPENSE, AND THAT MANY PEOPLE WON'T TAKE IT.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT THING.

OH, MY GOODNESS, THAT'S WONDERFUL TO HAVE THIS AMTRAK AND THEN I THINK, WELL, ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOOKED AT THIS BEFORE HAVE EVENTUALLY SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT COST EFFECTIVE AND I HOPE THESE THINGS THAT ALL THIS MONEY WE'RE SPENDING ARE THINGS THAT WE NEED AND THERE'S NOT STUFF SPENT ON SUPERFLUOUS MATTERS.

>> IT WOULD LET YOU TAKE THE TRAIN FROM CHICAGO TO NEW YORK TO NEW ORLEANS.

JOE MOSS, SHOULD -- IT'S A TOUGH CALL.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LET ON A HUGE AMOUNT OF RIDERS RIGHT AWAY ON INTERSTATE RAIL OR EVEN INTRASTATE RAIL, LIGHT RAIL.

SHOULD THAT MONEY BE INVESTED IN RAIL AT THIS POINT?

>> IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN AS TO HOW MUCH WILL BE INVESTED IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S -- INTERESTINGLY, ENOUGH, BECAUSE WHEN I SAW THE LIST OF POTENTIAL PROJECTS THIS MONEY CAN BE SPENT ON.

I THINK IT'S A TERRIFIC THING, BY THE WAY, I'M A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE AS WELL.

BUT THAT HAS TO DO WITH WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM.

IN GREATER PART, IT'S GOING TO BE PAID FOR.

THE ISSUE OF RAIL OR NOT RAIL, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I SEE ON THE LIST OF THINGS, THE ROADS, THE BRIDGES, MY GOODNESS, THE BROADBAND, THE CLEAN WATER, I THINK THESE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE.

I HAVEN'T TRAVELED ABROAD SINCE 2019.

I KNOW MIKE TRAVELS ABROAD AS WELL.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FALLING BEHIND, AT LEAST THAT'S THE IMPRESSION, AND WE BETTER START SUPPORTING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> TURNING TO THE POLITICS OF THIS, ONLY ONE OHIO REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN VOTED FOR THIS, THAT WAS ANTHONY GONZALES, LIKE ROB PORTMAN IS LEAVING AT THE END OF HIS TERM.

OTHERS DID NOT VOTE FOR IT.

YOU'RE KIND OF QUIET.

DIDN'T RAIL AGAINST IT TOO MUCH.

BUT CAN DEMOCRATS USE IT AGAINST THE REPUBLICANS, AND I'M GUESSING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO HAVE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY IN THEIR DISTRICTS EVEN THOUGH THEY DIDN'T PAY FOR IT.

>> I THINK IT DEPENDS HOW QUICKLY WE GET THIS MONEY AT THE DOOR.

IF THERE IS A WATER -- THERE'S A LOT OF BACKLOG IN WATER PROJECTS IN APPALACHIA.

IF THERE'S A BIG WATER PROJECT IT'S PAID FOR IT IN PARTS OF THE DISTRICT, I COULD SEE AN OPPONENT OF IT IF HE VOTED AGAINST IT.

DEPENDING WHERE YOU COME DOWN ON IT THERE'S 140 MILLION FOR ELECTRIC CAR VEHICLE CHARGERS, SO THEY MIGHT BE SUPPORTIVE BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT STILL HAVE OPPOSITION TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

AND THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO POINT TO THAT AS A PLACE PERHAPS WHERE THEY SEE IT AS WASTED MONEY.

>> GOOD.

>> AND THEN THERE'S THE BIGGER ISSUE OF BUILD BACK BETTER WHICH HAS PASSED THE HOUSE.

>> YES.

>> AND SO THAT IS GOING TO BE A CUDGEL, I THINK, AS WE GO INTO 2022.

>> ROB PORTMAN, IN HIS WHITE HOUSE ADDRESS, MADE SURE TO POINT OUT THAT THIS DID NOT INCLUDE THE HUMAN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THE SOCIAL SPENDING PLAN HAS.

IT ALSO -- THE PLAN HE AGREED TO DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY TAX HIKES.

HE GOT HIS MESSAGE THROUGH THERE AS WELL.

REPUBLICANS IN THE OHIO HOUSE THIS WEEK VOTED TO LESSEN THE OHIO STATE GUN LAWS FURTHER.

ONE WOULD LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF TRAINING SCHOOL EMPLOYEES WOULD NEED TO CARRY A GUN IN SCHOOL.

IT WOULD BASICALLY NULLIFY OHIO'S CONCEAL CARRY LAW.

ELIMINATING THE NEED FOR A SPECIAL PERMIT AND TRAINING TO CARRY A HIDDEN GUN, AND KRARIERS WOULD NO LONGER BE OBLIGATED TO TELL A POLICE OFFICER IF THEY HAD A GUN IN THEIR CAR.

I REMEMBER WHEN THIS LAW FIRST PASSED.

THE GOVERNOR AT THE TIME OPPOSED IT BECAUSE POLICE AGENCIES DIDN'T LIKE IT.

THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY COULD PULL SOMEBODY OVER WHO HAS A GUN HIDDEN IN THEIR CAR.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS LATEST BILL HERE?

>> WELL, AGAIN, MIKE, I WAS OPPOSED TO IT WHEN WE CAME OUT UNDER THE GOVERNOR -- I STILL AM NOW.

I DON'T SEE THE POINT IN IT.

BASICALLY THEY'RE SAYING ANYONE 21 YEARS AND OLDER WHO WANTS TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS, THEY CAN DO IT.

THEY DON'T NEED ANY TRAINING, POLICEMAN, AS YOU INDICATED, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY PUT THE SECOND THING IN.

WHAT PROBLEM THAT IS IS ABSOLUTELY BEYOND ME.

INSOFAR AS AS JUST CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON, I CAN TELL YOU THIS, I HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND SOME CLIENTS OF MINE, THAT HAD ABOUT AS MUCH SENSE IN CARRYING THEIR LEGAL WEAPONS AS A 10-YEAR-OLD.

I JUST THINK IT'S A BAD, BAD MISTAKE.

I KNOW ALL THE GUN PEOPLE WOULD BE AGAINST MY POSITION.

BUT I STILL FEEL THAT WAY.

YOU'VE CERTAINLY GOT TO HAVE TRAINING AND THERE OUGHT TO BE BACKGROUND CHECKS OR SOMETHING.

BUT JUST TO SAY THAT BASICALLY ANYBODY 21 YEARS OLD, PERIOD, CAN LEGALLY CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON, I JUST FIND VERY TROUBLING.

>> SUPPORTERS OF THIS BILL SAY THERE'S NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TRAINING TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> I SAY TO THAT THAT THEY'RE MISINTERPRETING THE CONSTITUTION.

I THINK THAT THE STATE, AND I THINK THE SUPREME COURT HAS AND CONSISTENT -- GOING BACK TO THE MOST RECENT DECISIONS IN 2008, THE CHICAGO CASE, AND THE -- THAT STATES CAN IMPOSE RESTRICTIONS ON THIS.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE TOPICS THAT, AS IS THE CASE OF MANY, THAT MIKE MILLER AND I AGREE ON 100%, AND THE SECOND PART THAT MIKE ALLUDED TO IS THAT POLICE OFFICERS NOW HAVE TO ASK THE INDIVIDUAL THAT THEY'RE CARRYING A GUN RATHER THAN SHIFTING OR HAVING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF INFORMING THE OFFICER, INITIATED BY THE DRIVER, BY THE ONE WHO'S POSSESSING THE GUN.

SO YEAH, IT'S PRETTY MUCH A FREE FOR ALL, AND HEAVEN ONLY KNOWS WHERE THIS WILL LEAD BUT THE LAST THING WE NEED ARE MORE GUNS ON THE STREET, AND PEOPLE ACTING ACCORDING TO THEIR FEARS AND PREJUDICES.

>> IS THE SENATE GOING TO PASS THIS?

WILL GOVERNOR DeWINE SIGN IT?

>> I SUSPECT THAT THE SENATE MAY PASS IT.

AS FOR WHERE GOVERNOR DeWINE COMES DOWN ON IT, I AM NOT SURE.

YOU KNOW, INITIALLY HE SAID THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO PASS ANY -- HE WASN'T GOING TO SIGN ANY GUN LEGISLATION UNTIL THE LEGISLATURE ACTED ON HIS STRONGER OHIO.

THIS WAS THE GUN CONTROL REFORMS THAT HE WANTED AFTER THE DAYTON MASS SHOOTING BUT THEN HE'S GONE AND BACK AND SIGNED A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT GUN BILLS IN THE YEARS SINCE.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S REALLY HARD TO PREDICT WHERE HE'LL COME DOWN ON THIS ONE.

HOUSE BILL 99, THE OTHER ONE WHICH LOWERS THE TRAINING REQUIREMENTS FOR TEACHERS TO CARRY GUNS IN SCHOOLS IS ALSO REALLY STICKY BECAUSE ATTORNEY GENERAL MIKE DeWINE HAD A VERY DIFFERENT, MUCH MORE ROBUST PROGRAM RECOMMENDATION FOR THAT KIND OF TRAINING.

>> OKAY.

LET'S GET TO OUR OFF THE RECORD FINAL SHOTS.

MIKE MILLER.

>> WELL, BACK TO THE COVID PROBLEM, MIKE, I JUST CAME BACK FROM FRANCE AND PARIS, AND I THINK SOMEWHERE AROUND AUGUST THE 1st, THE PRESIDENT MADE A STATEMENT OVER THERE THAT IF YOU'RE NOT VACCINATED BY SEPTEMBER THE 15th, YOU CAN'T GO IN RESTAURANTS, YOU CAN'T GO IN MUSEUMS, YOU CAN'T GO WHERE ANY CROWDS OF PEOPLE ARE.

VERY SMALL CROWD.

TEN PEOPLE OR SOMETHING.

AT THAT TIME AS I RECOLLECT, FRANCE WAS 50% -- 52% VACCINATED.

WHEN THE DEADLINE CAME SEPTEMBER THE 15th, THERE WERE 72% VACCINATED.

AND I THINK WE NEED SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO KIND OF FORCE PEOPLE, IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, YOU JUST CAN'T GO ANYWHERE BECAUSE YOU'RE PUTTING EVERYBODY ELSE AT RISK.

>> JOE MOSS.

>> MIKE, I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED, THIS WEEK OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST JOINED THE ADs FROM TWO OTHER STATES IN A SUIT TO FORCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO RESTART WORKPLACE IMMIGRATION RATES, HIS LOGIC, THAT WORKING IMMIGRANTS BRING DRUGS AND CRIME INTO OHIO.

SHAME ON YOU, DAVE, YOU KNOW BETTER, YOU'RE LYING TO US.

>> AND -- >> WELL, I THOUGHT I'D END THIS ON A HAPPY NOTE.

THE NONPROFIT PIKE RIDE FOR CANCER RESEARCH, THEIR FUND RAISING NUMBERS ARE BACK UP.

IT REACHED 23 MILLION IN 2019, DOWN TO 10 MILLION DURING THE PANDEMIC BUT IT'S BACK UP TO WHERE IT SHOULD BE AT 20 MILLION FOR THIS YEAR.

>> GOOD FOR THEM.

THIS IS A HISTORIC BROADCAST, AT LEAST FOR US, FOR 50 YEARS.

WE'VE INTRODUCED TELEVISION IN THE BASEMENT OF THE CENTER FOR TOMORROW.

IT'S BEEN A WONDERFUL HOME.

WE'VE DONE WONDERFUL WORK HERE AND WE HAVE -- THE ARCHITECTURE, IT'S TINY WINDOWS AND THICK BRICK WALLS.

OUR NEXT BROADCAST WILL BE AT OUR NEW FACILITY EAST OF HIGH STREET.

THE HEART OF THE WOSU COMMUNITY.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO HOSTING YOU THERE FOR LIVE SHOWS AND OTHER EVENTS.

FOR OUR FINAL TIME FROM THIS CENTER, FOR OUR PANEL ESPECIALLY, OUR HARD WORKING CREWS, PAST AND PRESENT, I'M MIKE THOMPSON, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

♪♪