>>> THE OHIO CHANNEL IS LIVESTREAMING THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE WATCHING PAINT DRY.

JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, DARRELL ROWLAND, SENIOR EDITOR FOR THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH.

AND BOB CLEGG, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

FOR THE THIRD TIME A SPLIT OHIO SUPREME COURT HAS REJECTED THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION'S MAPS FOR THE OHIO HOUSE AND SENATE.

THE COURT'S MAJORITY OPINION SAID THAT NOT ONLY WAS THE THIRD VERSION FLAWED BUT THE PROCESS WAS FLAWED.

SO 18 RULES FOR THE PROCESS WERE INTRODUCED AND ONE OF THEM STANDS OUT.

IT REQUIRES OHIO GOVERNMENT TV LIVESTREAM THE MAP DRAWERS WHENEVER THEY ARE WORKING ON THE MAP DRAWING COMPUTERS.

AND IT AT TIMES LOOKS LIKE THIS.

AND NO, WE ARE NOT EDITING OUT THE SOUND.

THERE IS NO AUDIO.

BOB CLEGG, IS THIS A BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR MOMENT OR DOES THE LIVESTREAM SERVE A LEGITIMATE PURPOSE?

>> I GUESS IT DOES.

I MEAN, IT IS, THOUGH -- BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

BUT THIS IS -- IT'S NOT ALL THAT INTERESTING.

NOW, I KNOW IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PROCESS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE VERY INTERESTED IN IT.

BUT THE ACTUAL MECHANICS BEHIND IT ARE FAIRLY DULL AND STANDARD.

THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT LITTLE SUBDIVISIONS BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN THEM, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PARTY BREAKOUT IS JUST BY LOOKING AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

SO I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT YOU WOULD GET OUT OF IT.

TO BE HONEST.

>> DARREL ROWLAND, I KNOW YOU'RE ALL ABOUT TRANSPARENCY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT'S GREAT.

YOU KNOW, AND IN SOME WAYS IT'S A REPORTER'S POINT OF VIEW THAT HE WITH GIVE FOLKS -- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR A CERTAIN DESIRE TO BE AT ALL THESE GOVERNMENT MEETINGS.

SO THESE ARE THE SORTS OF THINGS WE SIT THROUGH.

NOW, THIS WOULD BE EXTREME EVEN FOR THAT.

BUT IT'S WELCOME TO OUR WORLD.

THE OTHER THING, ANN, IS I THINK THERE ARE LITTLE COMMENTS BEING MADE HERE AND THERE AND PEOPLE -- NOW, THESE ARE THE HARDCORE POLITICAL TYPES.

ARE FOLLOWING ALONG.

BECAUSE I SEE THEM TWEETING ABOUT -- ONE PERSON TWEETED ABOUT HOW THE DEMOCRATIC MAPMAKER TALKED TO THE REPUBLICAN MAPMAKER ABOUT THE MAP THAT WAS REJECTED, SOMETHING LIKE YOU GUYS WERE -- YOU WERE REALLY CUTE WHEN YOU DID THAT.

BUT YOU ALSO SEE THEM -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WHOLE TENSION IN THIS PROCESS.

IT'S MORE THAN JUST DEMOCRATS VERSUS REPUBLICANS.

IT IS ARE WE GOING FOR DISTRICTS THAT REFLECT THE OVERALL POLITICAL MAKEUP OF OHIO?

BECAUSE THE REQUIREMENTS KIND OF REQUIRE BOTH.

THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT WE APPROVED A FEW YEARS AGO.

BUT ACHIEVING BOTH IN SOME INSTANCES IS A LITTLE CONTRADICTORY.

NOW, THE SUPREME COURT HAS MADE THE GOAL OF HAVING DISTRICTS REFLECT THE OVERALL POLITICAL MAKEUP OF OHIO SORT OF THE FIRST AMONG EQUALS, IF YOU WILL.

SO YOU SEE THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THESE MAPS.

THEY ARE -- AND REPUBLICANS SAY YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME -- THEY ARE ACTUALLY GERRYMANDERING, THEY ARE TRYING TO BUILD MORE DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS TO GET IT UP TO REFLECT THE OVERALL MAKEUP OF OHIO, WHICH IS ROUGHLY 54% REPUBLICAN, YOU KNOW, 46% DEMOCRAT.

>> YOU KNOW, BOB CLEGG, REPUBLICANS DOMINATE THE PRESS AS THEY CONTROL THE BOARD ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

THEY SAY THEY HAVE TRIED BUT DRAWING THESE LINES BUT ALSO MEETING A NUMBER OF SOMETIMES CONFLICTING CRITERIA IS HARDER THAN IT LOOKS.

WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING THIS MORE TRANSPARENT PROCESS AND THE ADDITION OF THE TWO NEW HIRED OUTSIDE MAP MAKERS?

DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN ALL OF THIS GOING FORWARD?

>> THEY MAY.

I MEAN, I THINK -- AND I AGREE, I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

WE'VE NEVER HAD TO DRAW LINES WITH THESE -- ALL THESE DIFFERENT CRITERIA WHICH THE NEW CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT HAS BROUGHT INTO IT.

THE WHOLE IDEA USED TO BE THEY HAVE TO BE COMPACT AND CONTIGUOUS.

THAT SEEMS TO HAVE GONE OUT THE WINDOW.

AND I'M AFRAID WHAT WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH -- AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF ANY KIND OF POLITICAL GERRYMANDERING.

IT'S JUST THE MERE FACT THAT DEMOCRATS ARE MORE CONCENTRATED IN USUALLY URBAN AREAS, REPUBLICANS ARE MORE SPREAD OUT.

AND TO GET DISTRICTS THAT WE CAN GET TO THAT NUMBER OF 54-45 WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DRAW SOME REALLY STRANGE-LOOKING DISTRICTS.

AND IT USED TO BE IN THE OLD DAYS IF YOU DREW A STRANGE-LOOKING DISTRICT IT WAS BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO HELP A CERTAIN POLITICAL PARTY.

AND THIS TIME AROUND IT'S TO GET TO A CERTAIN RATIO OF WHAT IS VIEWED AS THE STATEWIDE OVERALL POLITICAL VOTE.

AND I THINK WE'RE OPENING A DOOR HERE WHERE WE COULD END UP WITH SOME REALLY STRANGE-LOOKING DISTRICTS WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE.

NOW, THEY MAY GET TO A MAP WITH THESE NEW EXPERTS THAT ISN'T EXACTLY 55-45, WHICH IS WHAT THE COURTS SEEM TO WANT.

I DO THINK IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL THAT IF THESE -- IF YOU BRING IN THESE TWO EXPERTS, ONE REPUBLICAN, ONE DEMOCRAT, AND THEY CAN'T GET IT THERE, THAT MAYBE THE COURT WILL FINALLY SAY, OKAY, MAYBE WE DON'T NEED EXACTLY 55-45.

>> YOU KNOW, DARREL ROWLAND, THE PRESSURE ON COUNTY BOARDS OF ELECTIONS IS TREMENDOUS AT THIS POINT.

IT LOOKS LIKE BY DEFAULT THERE WILL BE TWO PRIMARY ELECTIONS WITH JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO EVERYONE WAS SAYING NO WAY.

ONE FOR LOCAL AND STATEWIDE ISSUES AND RACES AND ANOTHER FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND STATE HOUSE RACES.

TWO DEMOCRATS HAVE INTRODUCED A MEASURE TO CHANGE THE ELECTION DAY BUT THAT LIKELY WON'T GO ANYWHERE IN THIS MASSIVELY REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

DO YOU SEE ANY WAY FORWARD THAT MAKES SENSE AT THIS POINT, DARREL?

>> WELL, I THINK WE PASSED MAKING SENSE SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, UNFORTUNATELY.

IN AN ODD WAY WE'RE BACK TO TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE CHANGED THE PRIMARY BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

NOW, THAT WAS CHANGED LIKE 12 HOURS BEFORE THE POLLS WERE SUPPOSED TO OPEN.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT QUITE TO THAT EXTREME.

ON THE OTHER HAND, LORD HELP VOTERS.

I MEAN, WHAT DISTRICT ARE THEY IN?

WHO AM I VOTING FOR?

AND YOU MENTIONED -- THE CONGRESS CONGRESSIONAL MAP IS WHAT'S TOTALLY UP IN THE AIR RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE AS OF THIS MOMENT AS WE SPEAK THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE VOTED ON MAY 3rd.

BUT ARE THE DISTRICTS CONSTITUTIONAL?

WELL, THAT'S A NEW CHALLENGE THAT'S BEEN FILED WITH THE SUPREME COURT.

SO THAT'S GOING TO BE UP IN THE AIR.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MAY 3rd ELECTION.

THAT MEANS WE START EARLY VOTING IN WHAT, PROBABLY LESS THAN TWO WEEKS, OR WE WERE SUPPOSED TO.

YOU'VE GOT TO PREPARE BALLOTS, PROGRAMS, MACHINES.

ALL THIS STUFF.

WE'RE SO WORRIED ABOUT ELECTION SECURITY AND MAKING MISTAKES AND PREVENTING FRAUD, AND NOW WE'RE JUST PUTTING, YOU KNOW -- IT'S LIKE WE'RE DOING THE WORST THING WE COULD POSSIBLY DO TO -- FOR ALL OF THAT HARD WORK, THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS THE BIPARTISAN ELECTION WORKERS HAVE DONE ACROSS THE STATE TO MAKE THIS AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE.

>> TIME WILL TELL ON THIS.

NOW THAT THE REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL PRIMARY DEBATE IS CANCELED, WE CAN FOCUS ON THE CROWDED GOP PRIMARY FOR U.S. SENATE.

THE LATEST IN A SERIES OF DEBATES BETWEEN FIVE CANDIDATES STILL IN THE RUNNING GAVE US A GOOD LOOK AT SOME OF THE RAGING ISSUES INCLUDING WHETHER OR NOT FORMER OHIO TREASURER JOSH MANDEL HAS ENOUGH BUSINESS EXPERIENCE.

INVESTMENT BANKER MIKE GIBBONS THINKS NOT.

>> MY OPPONENT MR. GIBBONS WAS MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BY SHIPPING OHIO BUSINESSES TO CHINA.

HE JUST GOT UP HERE AND SAID HE WASN'T DOING THAT.

LET ME GIVE YOU THREE EXAMPLES.

PERFECT FIT LLC HAD THOUSANDS OF JOBS ALL OVER OHIO.

HE TOOK PERFECT FIT LLC AND MIKE, WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE WHY YOU SOLD IT TO A COMPANY CALLED SHANGHAI SHENDA?

>> FIRST OF ALL -- >> SHANGHAI SHENDA -- >> BUYING A SECOND -- YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN -- >> I DO.

>> NO, YOU DON'T.

YOU'VE NEVER BEEN IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.

>> TWO TOURS IN IRAQ.

DON'T TELL ME I HAVEN'T WORKED.

>> YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT.

YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT.

>> TWO TOURS IN IRAQ.

DON'T TELL ME I HAVEN'T WORKED.

>> WHEN YOU BUY A SECONDARY STOCK, YOU AREN'T GIVING ANY MONEY TO THE COMPANY.

IT'S A MARKET THING.

AND BY THE WAY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW -- I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW I OWNED CHINESE PETROL AND IF I DID IT WAS BEING MANAGED BY U.S. BANK.

>> DARREL ROWLAND, THE ANGRY DEBATES OF THE 2016 AND 2020 ELECTION CYCLES WERE NOT -- WERE STILL SOME OF THE MOST WIDELY WATCHED EVER, WHICH IS GOOD.

IS THAT SAME ENERGY SOMETHING WE CAN EXPECT GOING FORWARD?

AND HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR REPUBLICANS IN THIS CASE?

>> YOU JUST PLAYED A CLIP, RIGHT?

THE NATIONAL NEWS EVEN PLAYS CLIPS.

IT GOT THAT RACE NATIONAL ATTENTION.

BACK IN YOUR REPORTING DAYS YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY WELL, JUST SPELL MY NAME RIGHT.

EVEN IF IT'S ABOUT ME DOING SOMETHING BAD OR SHADY, JUST SPELL MY NAME RIGHT AND I'LL STILL GET BUSINESS IF I'M WHATEVER, A SHADY ATTORNEY OR BUSINESS PERSON OR LABOR LEADER, WHATEVER.

I MEAN, THIS IS AN ODD ISSUE.

FAR, FAR FROM THE FIRST ONE TO MAKE THAT OBSERVATION.

IT'S BEEN COMMON FOR MONTHS.

DONALD TRUMP, HERE I AM, LOOK AT ME.

ENDORSE ME.

AND THEN THIS WHOLE THING -- WE'RE QUICK TO DRAW AN INSULT.

OH, AND THEN AFTER THIS JOSH MANDEL SAYS, WELL, HE'S INSULTING THE MILITARY.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S QUESTIONABLE.

WERE THEY REALLY GOING TO THROW HANDS THERE?

AND THEN THERE'S A DEBATE AFTER THAT WHERE JAMES HIMKIN GOT INTO THAT AND MR. GIBBONS TALKED ABOUT HOW WOMEN MIGHT HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTE.

NOT EXACTLY HIGH POLITICAL DISCOURSE.

NOT EXACTLY THE LINCOLN DOUGLAS DEBATE IN OHIO.

WE'LL SEE.

DO VOTERS WANT THIS?

IT CERTAINLY IS ATTENTION GRABBING.

BUT OKAY.

WORE WR DO THESE PEOPLE STAND ON THE ISSUES?

IS ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION?

ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT WHERE THEY STAND ON THE ISSUES OTHER THAN GENERAL RHETORIC?

IS ANYONE COVERING WHERE THEY STAND ON THE ISSUES?

THESE ARE HUGE QUESTIONS AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT ELECTION.

>> SO BOB CLEGG, IS THIS SORT OF DISCOURSE FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD IS SOMETHING THAT ATTRACTS VIEWERS.

I AM WONDERING ABOUT THAT WONKY QUESTION ABOUT THE ISSUES.

IT USED TO BE THEY DOMINATED THESE CONVERSATIONS AND NOW IT'S LIKE THEY'RE BARELY EVEN AN AFTERTHOUGHT, BOB.

>> WELL, I THINK, NUMBER ONE, YOU KNOW, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WATCH THESE DEBATES ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY TOTALLY ENGAGED IN IT.

AND USUALLY THOSE PEOPLE KNOW WHO THEY'RE VOTING FOR ANYWAY.

SO I DON'T KNOW HOW IMPACTFUL THESE DEBATES ARE WITH REGARDS TO CHANGING OF VOTES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DEBATES -- THE PROBLEM WE'VE GOT WITH DEBATING THE ISSUES IN A PRIMARY LIKE THIS IS THEY ALL AGREE ON THE ISSUES.

OKAY?

SO IT'S KIND OF HARD TO DEBATE THEM WHEN THEY ALL KIND OF AGREE ON IT.

SO WHAT THEY'RE DOING INSTEAD IS LOOKING AT EACH PERSONAL, YOU KNOW, LIFE OF EACH CANDIDATE AND WHAT CAN THEY LOOK AT AND USE AGAINST THEM VERSUS AN ISSUE-ORIENTED THING.

BECAUSE TO BE HONEST, THEY'RE ALL PRO LIFE.

THEY'RE ALL PRO TRUMP.

THEY'RE ALL -- YOU KNOW, THERE AREN'T A LOT OF ISSUES OUT THERE THAT THEY CAN EVEN DISAGREE ON.

SO THEN WE GET INTO THE PERSONAL AND THE PERSONALITY THING.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP TRUMP.

A COLUMNIST AT THE "CINCINNATI ENQUIRER" THIS WEEK ASKED DONALD TRUMP TO DO OHIO VOTERS A BIG FAVOR AND JUST ENDORSE IN THIS RACE.

IT WAS A GREAT COLUMN.

OSTENSIBLY TO THIN THE HERD BUT ALSO END THE ONE-UPPING ALONG THE TRUMP SPECTRUM, RIGHT?

AND BOB, ARE RANK-AND-FILE REPUBLICANS ENJOYING THIS PREPRIMARY EXTRAVAGANZA OR DO YOU THINK IT WOULD DO THE PARTY GOOD TO JUST ENDORSE?

>> NUMBER ONE, I DON'T THINK A LOT OF THEM EVEN ARE AWARE OF IT.

THEY WATCH COMMERCIALS ON TV.

WHICH IS WHY MIKE GIBBONS NOW -- I MEAN, THAT'S WHY JOSH MANDEL AND MIKE GIBBONS ARE FIGHTING EACH OTHER SO HARD, BECAUSE JOSH HAS BEEN IN FRONT PRETTY MUCH THIS WHOLE RACE UP UNTIL THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

AND THAT'S MIKE GIBBONS SPENDING 8 MILLION OF HIS OWN MONEY ON TV DOING ADS AND HE'S NOT ONLY CAUGHT UP BUT HE'S ALSO GONE AHEAD OF JOSH MANDEL.

SO FOR JOSH THIS IS FIGHTING FOR HIS POLITICAL LIFE.

THE PRESIDENT'S ENDORSEMENT IS INTERESTING.

THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT TO REALLY ENDORSE UNLESS HE KNOWS FOR SURE WHO'S GOING TO WIN BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO ENDORSE ANYBODY.

AND WE JUST SAW THIS WEEK DOWN IN ALABAMA WHERE HIS ENDORSED CANDIDATE WAS IN THIRD PLACE OUT OF THREE RUNNING FOR THAT OPEN U.S. SENATE SEAT.

AND THE KEY THING FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IS I HAVE TO ENDORSE THE PERSON THAT EVENTUALLY IS GOING TO WIN.

AND UNTIL HE CAN FIGURE THAT OUT HERE IN OHIO HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ENDORSING.

>> FIRST ENERGY ENTERED INTO A DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LAST SUMMER, ADMITTING TO A $60 MILLION PAYMENT TO A NON-PROFIT SECRETLY OPERATED BY FORMER GOP OHIO HOUSE SPEAKER LARRY HOUSEHOLDER.

AND ANOTHER $4.3 MILLION PAYMENT TO THE STATE'S THEN TOP UTILITY REGULATOR SAM RANDAZZO, WHO HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED.

BUT FIRST ENERGY DIDN'T NAME WHICH EXECUTIVES ULTIMATELY CONTROLLED THOSE PAYMENTS AND NOW WE KNOW THAT CEO CHARLES JONES AND SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT FOR EXTERNAL AFFAIRS MICHAEL DOWLING, BOTH SINCE FIRED, WERE NAMED IN AN AFFIDAVIT AFTER A U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE ORDERED FIRST ENERGY LAWYERS TO NAME NAMES.

DARREL ROWLAND, THE HOUSEHOLDER TRIAL IS SET FOR NEXT JANUARY.

GIVE ME A SENSE OF YOUR EXPECTATIONS OR HOW MANY OTHER SHOES MIGHT DROP IN THE MEANTIME.

IS THIS JUST THE BEGINNING?

>> IT'S VERY CURIOUS.

YOU WOULD THINK WE'VE BEEN GOING DOWN THIS CHANNEL FOR WHAT, A YEAR AND A HALF?

>> SUMMER OF 2020.

YEAH.

>> YEAH, SINCE -- SINCE THE HOUSEHOLDER INDICTMENT AND THE OTHER FOUR, BASICALLY, MATT BORGES, THE OHIO REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN.

SAM RANDAZZO, THOSE OF US SITTING ON THE SIDELINE, WE HAVE ADMITTED BRIBES.

DOES THE RECIPIENT OF THAT MONEY GET INDICTED OR WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

AND I'M NOT ONE TO MAKE A JUDGMENT WHETHER IT'S RIGHT OR WRONG, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE HE'S -- THERE'S AS MUCH EVIDENCE OUT THERE AGAINST HIM AS NOT.

WITH THE CASE PROCEEDING ALONG, THEY'RE BUILDING EVIDENCE, HOLDING HEARINGS, PRETRIAL CONFERENCES, ALL THAT GOOD STUFF, SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE JUST COMING FORWARD WITH THOSE TWO DEFENDANTS FOR NOW.

THAT'S THE THING.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT MANY PUBLIC CORRUPTION CASES THAT NECESSARILY COME TO FRUITION, OR CERTAINLY WE'RE NOT USED TO THEM IN OHIO.

IT'S HARD TO DETERMINE WHAT REGULAR PRACTICE IS YET.

BUT YEAH, THE TRIAL WAS SCHEDULED FOR JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION.

AND I KNOW THE DEMOCRATS WERE HOPING, HOPING, PRAYING THAT WOULD HAPPEN.

WELL, NOW IT'S NOT.

THIS IS KIND OF THE SECOND BEST THING.

I WROTE MY COLUMN TODAY ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLE JUXTAPOSITION, HIGH NOON ON WEDNESDAY WAS THE DEADLINE FOR FIRST ENERGY -- UNDER THE FEDERAL JUDGE'S ORDER.

HIGH NOON ON WEDNESDAY ALSO WAS THE TIME SCHEDULED WEEKS AND WEEKS EARLIER FOR MIKE DeWINE TO -- WE HAD THIS JUXTAPOSITION.

AGAIN, TOTALLY AT RANDOM.

AND THAT'S IDENTIFYING THE WHOLE CASE WITH PEOPLE LIKE GOVERNOR DeWINE.

E-MAILS WERE RELEASED TO SHOW THEY'RE MEETING.

HE WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL THEN.

MEETING WITH THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE BRIBES.

MEETING WITH LARRY HOUSEHOLDER IN EARLY 2017.

THAT'S WHEN THE ENTIRE HOUSEVILLE SIX CLAN WAS HASHED AND THE BRIBES -- AND THE DARK MONEY GROUPS WERE FORMED.

OKAY, THE TIMING IS THERE.

BUT IS THAT LIKE THE TIMING OF THE SPEECH AND THE COURT ACTION OR NOT?

THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS WE HAVE YET TO FIND OUT.

>> SO BOB CLEGG, AS DARREL SAID, THIS IS PROBABLY THE NEXT BEST THING FOR DEMOCRAT POLITICOS OUT THERE BECAUSE IT'S STILL HANGING OVER EVERYBODY'S HEAD.

BUT ARE REPUBLICANS RELIEVED THAT IT WON'T BE CARRYING ON DURING THE RUN-UP TO ELECTION DAY IN NOVEMBER?

>> SURE.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS HAS GOTTEN REALLY THAT HIGH OF A PROFILE.

I THINK FOR THIS TO REALLY AFFECT THE ELECTION THIS YEAR THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY ON TV TO GET THAT MESSAGE OUT THERE.

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY HIGH ON THE -- ON PEOPLE'S RADAR FOR HOW THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE THIS FALL.

I THINK GAS PRICES AND INFLATION IN GENERAL AND THE WAR IN THE UKRAINE AND ALL THAT IS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, KEEPING THIS OUT FROM EVEN BEING, YOU KNOW, NOTICED.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE DARREL SAID.

THESE FEDERAL INVESTIGATIONS GO NOWHERE A LOT OF TIMES.

AND REMEMBER, THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT LARRY HOUSEHOLDER'S BEEN INVESTIGATED BY THE FEDS.

AND THAT FIRST TIME IT RESULTED IN NOTHING.

I'M AMAZED HE GOT INDICTED THIS TIME.

>> DARREL ROWLAND, ARE YOU AMAZED THAT HE GOT INDICTED THIS TIME?

>> YEAH.

BECAUSE I'VE HAD QUIET TALKS WITH THE INVESTIGATORS AND THEY KIND OF WENT TO SCHOOL ON THE MISTAKES THAT WERE MADE IN THE FIRST INVESTIGATION THE FIRST TIME WHEN LARRY HOUSEHOLDER WAS SPEAKER BACK IN THE EARLY 2000s.

WE NOW HAVE A DEDICATED PUBLIC INTEGRITY UNIT WITH THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THE FBI HERE IN COLUMBUS HAS FORMED SINCE THAT TIME.

THEY'VE REALLY PROFESSIONALIZED A LOT.

AND LIKE I SAY, THEY KNOW THE STUMBLES OF THE PAST.

NEW PEOPLE, NEW LEADERSHIP.

AND SECOND TIME AROUND, YEAH.

AND THAT'S REFLECTED -- WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE BUT JUST WHAT THEY HAVE IN TERMS OF MONTHS IF NOT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE EVEN A YEAR.

WIRETAPS.

THAT'S PRETTY SOLID STUFF THERE.

OR SO IT APPEARS.

WE'LL SEE WHAT COMES OUT AT THE TRIAL, WHAT THE DEFENSE WILL SAY.

>> FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE BECOMING GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE HAS DELIVERED A STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS AND DID SO FROM THE VENUE OF THE OHIO HOUSE FLOOR, AS TRADITION HAS DICTATED IN THE PAST.

HE FOCUSED ON MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT FOR UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES AND MOVING AWAY FROM CRIMINALIZING MENTAL ILLNESS.

>> MANY OHIOANS IN NEED OF SUPPORT BECAME HOMELESS, LANGUISHED IN JAIL OR IN PRISON.

AND NOW EVERY DAY IN OHIO WE HAVE FAMILIES IN CRISIS.

THEY NEED IMMEDIATE HELP.

IMMEDIATE HELP.

TOO OFTEN THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO TURN, NO IDEA WHERE TO GO.

SO THE LOVED ONES SUFFER.

AND SOMETIMES THESE INDIVIDUALS OR FRIENDS OR FAMILY MEMBERS DIE NEEDLESSLY.

>> YOU KNOW, BOB CLEGG, THERE WAS LEGITIMATE GOOD NEWS.

BENGALS.

HIS CRITICS SAID, THOUGH, THE SPEECH WAS MORE NOTABLE FOR WHAT IT DID NOT COVER.

WHICH SOUNDS PRETTY STATUS QUO TO ME.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THE IT WAS ALL GOOD NEWS SORT OF A SPEECH FROM THE CRITICS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE STATE'S DOING MUCH BETTER THAN IT HAS IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT.

THE OTHER THING IS LET'S GET DOWN TO THE POLITICAL OF THIS, WHICH IS THE GOVERNOR REALLY HAD TO TRY TO SHOW WHAT HE WANTS TO TRY TO DO IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

HE'S GOT TO COME UP FOR A REASON TO GET RE-ELECTED.

AND I THOUGHT HE DID A GOOD JOB OF DOING THAT.

HE DID A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF COVID, WHICH WAS GOOD.

BRIEF.

AND THEN MOVED ON TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT HE WANTS TO TRY TO TACKLE IN THE COMING YEARS.

AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THE MENTAL HEALTH THING WHICH I THOUGHT WAS GREAT BECAUSE THAT TIES IN SO MUCH TO THE DRUG PROBLEM WE HAVE BUT ALSO TIES INTO JUST COVID IN GENERAL AND A LOT OF THE MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT CAME UP BECAUSE OF THAT.

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, TALKED ABOUT CRIME, WHICH IS HIGH ON EVERYBODY'S LIST OF CONCERNS THIS YEAR.

AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING AND NEAT THAT HE TALKED ABOUT PUTTING MORE ATTENTION AND DOLLARS INTO SOUTHEAST OHIO.

AND IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE AREA OF THE STATE THAT HAS NOT -- IT'S BEEN OVERLOOKED A LOT.

BUT IT'S ALSO HAD SOME OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE DRUG ISSUE AND DRUG PROBLEMS HERE IN OHIO.

AND I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO SEE HE FINALLY WANTS TO TACKLE THAT IN SOUTHEAST OHIO AND TRY TO HELP PEOPLE DOWN THERE.

>> DARREL, WE JUST HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE.

BUT I'M WONDERING IF YOU THOUGHT ANYTHING WAS MISSING THAT SURPRISED YOU.

>> WHAT BOB SAID ABOUT THE EMPHASIS ON MENTAL HEALTH AND THE SHOUT OUT TO TERRY RUSSELL AND THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR MENTALLY ILL. WHO'S RETIRING THIS YEAR.

OHIO'S ADVOCATE FOR DECADES IN OHIO.

WELL WORTHY OF THE RECOGNITION.

YOU KNOW, MAYBE I'M STILL TOO USED TO JOHN KASICH'S STATE OF THE STATES.

AN OVERARCHING PLAN OR ANYTHING THAT WAS REALLY AMBITIOUS.

MAYBE IT WAS MORE CAUTIOUS AND LIMITED THAN I THOUGHT MAYBE FOR A STATE THAT HAS MORE DECADES NOW LAGGED THE NATION IN TERMS OF OVERALL EMPLOYMENT AND MOST ECONOMIC MEASURES.

>> OKAY.

IT IS TIME FOR OUR FINAL "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

BOB CLEGG, LET'S START WITH YOU.

>> ANN, THE CENSUS BUREAU ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT ABOUT 75% OF ALL THE COUNTIES IN THE UNITED STATES HAD MORE DEATHS THAN THEY DID BIRTHS IN THE LAST YEAR, MEANING FROM JULY OF 2020 TO JULY OF 2021.

WHICH WAS BY FAR THE HIGHEST NUMBER THAT WE'VE EVER HAD AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF COUNTIES HERE IN OHIO ALSO HAD MORE DEATHS THAN BIRTHS.

AND PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A COVID THING OR IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S DEMOGRAPHICALLY GOING TO BE OCCURRING MORE AND MORE AS THIS COUNTRY IS AGING.

>> HMM.

DARREL ROWLAND.

>> NOW AND THEN IN THIS CRAZY PROFESSION YOU GET TO DO SOMETHING THAT YOU REALLY THINK IS GOING TO HELP PEOPLE.

MORE THAN A YEAR AGO THE OHIO HOUSE HELP COMMITTEE PASSED A BIPARTISAN BILL UNANIMOUSLY THAT WOULD HELP PEOPLE WITH THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE CO-PAYS, YOU KNOW, LESSEN THAT BURDEN.

THERE'S PEOPLE WITH RARE DISEASES THAT HAVE TREATMENT THAT COST BAZILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

AFTER WE WROTE ABOUT THAT I ASKED QUESTION.

THAT BILL IS MOVING TO AT LEAST HOUSE APPROVAL NEXT WEEK.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE SENATE.

IT'S VERY RARE THAT ANYTHING SUBSTANTIVE PASSES EVEN IN COMMITTEE.

IT SEEMED TO HAVE A LOT OF OOMPH BEHIND IT.

IT STALLED FOR MYSTERIOUS REASONS FOR A YEAR.

BUT NOW IT'S MOVING FORWARD.

>> AND FOR MY PARTING COMMENT I JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, SECOND OR THIRD THE SHOUT OUT TO NAMI OHIO EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TERRY RUSSELL FOR HIS 50 YEARS OF WORK ON BEHALF OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MENTALLY ILL AND THEIR FAMILIES.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK.

THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

PLEASE CHECK US OUT ONLINE.

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THERE YOU CAN WATCH EVERY SHOW ON DEMAND.

I'M ANN FISHER.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY t THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY -- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com -- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com ♪♪