(calm music) - A new month, a new deadline, and old result.

Ohio' Redistricting Commission fails to deliver on an Ohio Supreme Court order to create new maps, and instead resubmits old maps.

A leaked Supreme Court draft opinion suggests the days for Roe versus Wade are numbered, galvanizing both sides of the abortion debate in Ohio.

And the match-ups are set for the November general election in Ohio statewide, Congressional and United States Senate races.

"Ideas" is next.

(rousing music) Hello, and welcome to "Ideas".

I'm Rick Jackson and for Mike McIntyre, thank you for joining us.

The Ohio Redistricting Commission waited until this week to convene, making no real effort to meet today's deadline set by the Ohio Supreme Court for new constitutional state district maps.

Instead, they submitted old ones.

Ohio voters made their choices in partisan congressional statewide and United States Senate races in the primary this week, but turnout was really low.

Abortion access will be a key topic in the general election after leaked draft of the Supreme Court decision suggests Roe versus Wade will be overturned.

And the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Induction Class of 2022 has been announced.

Dolly Parton, who didn't want to be in, is, and Devo, who many say should be in, again misses out.

We'll discuss those stories and the rest of the week's news on the "Reporters' Roundtable".

Joining me this week from Ideastream Public Media, senior reporter Nick Castele, from the real deal press, editor and publisher Richard Andrews, and in Columbus Statehouse News Bureau Chief, Karen Kasler.

Let's get started.

The Ohio Supreme Court set today as the deadline for the Ohio Redistricting Commission to draw a new set of state legislative district maps.

Lawmakers waited until just two days before the deadline to meet, and several sent surrogates.

Karen Kasler, the maps the commission opted to submit this time, rather than draw new ones, are old ones.

So are the commissioners basically signaling that they're done, they want the maps, this time, the court will impose?

- Well, the advocates who have been pushing for fair maps, who've been filing lawsuits over these Republican-drawn maps have said that there really isn't a whole lot of incentive to pass a new set of maps because of exactly what you just said.

The federal court has said that if there aren't maps that have been passed by the Ohio Redistricting Commission and approved by the Supreme Court as constitutionally not gerrymandered, then that third set of maps, which was previously ruled unconstitutional, would be put into place.

And the reason for that third set of maps specifically is because at the time that that third set was proposed and then was approved in between waiting for the court to rule it unconstitutional, local boards of elections started using that map to try to load into their system.

So the argument is that that is the only set of maps that would allow the state to go forward within August 2nd primary.

And that was the debate with the Ohio Redistricting Commission, which met just yesterday and then the day before with the deadline today to come up with new maps.

And so I think that there are a lot of frustrations here on the part of everybody, but certainly, the question of whether submitting old maps that have been ruled unconstitutional versus a new set of maps when the Supreme Court had said, "Here's what we want the new maps to look like," is something to think about.

- As I mentioned, two key members of the commission, House Speaker Bob Cupp and President Matt Huffman, not even taking part.

Is that an indication that they pretty much view this work as complete?

- Well, I think one of the court's decision specifically singled out Cupp and Huffman as controlling the process and doing that for the sole purpose of benefiting Republicans.

And so I don't know if that's the reason why they took themselves out, but certainly taking themselves out the process didn't really change a whole lot.

I mean, in the two meetings that were had, there were no new maps that were developed.

And the Supreme Court had said in the last opinion that they wanted the commission to continue the work it had been doing.

It had hired two outside map makers, a Republican and a Democrat, to come up with these state House and Senate maps.

And they worked here in the state House in a room that had live cameras, you could watch them work, but they didn't get that thing finished.

And so the court had said, "Hey, that's a headstart.

If you follow through with that plan of the outside map makers came up, you'll be closer to a constitutional map."

Well, the Ohio Redistricting Commission decided not to go forward with those map makers and that plan.

They went ahead and submitted the maps that are the ones that the federal court is going to implement if there isn't anything done by May 28th.

(steady music) - Progress on a new Cuyahoga County jail remains stalled, leading to rising tensions among officials.

Part of that tension comes because an issue that appeared to be decided that the county would build a new jail instead of renovating the old one is being revisited.

Nick Castele, the issues that the existing site are numerous.

Is the prospect of fixing that still by most people, at least considered unfeasible?

- At least according to the county officials who presented to county council, that's the case.

I mean, the county officials described the jail as essentially like a sick body that needs a new everything.

A new pulmonary system, new respiratory system, trying to say that every part of this jail is just beyond its useful life.

And the upshot of all of that was to make the argument that it would be more cost-effective to build a new jail rather than try to fight every individual structural issue.

The problem now that the steering committee and county council, county officials are running into is that the site that they've chosen has environmental problems, right?

Like you said, it used to be a standard oil facility.

It was considered as a prison site by state officials years ago, and they passed on that location because of the environmental problems there.

And so this new environmental study is being ordered up to try to dig into these issues and see what kind of contamination remains at the site.

But that slowed down this process again, and we're waiting now to see what decision they're going to make.

- Richard, the committee that'll make the decision, still deciding whether or not to build or rehab.

In the meantime, time is ticking by, and this crumbling jail's still in use.

- Not only is the crumbling jail still in use, but the administration of the county exec has not been able to address some of the serious staffing issues at the jail.

I'm not sure that a new jail or renovation of the old jail would be the answer to many of the problems that we find at the jail right now, particularly the number of people who die while in custody, as well as a number of people who are in jail, but haven't been convicted.

- Yeah, we had that rash of people dying a couple of years ago, and then nothing, and then again, recently.

So yeah, it's a frightening situation.

And Nick, this steering committee made up of members from across the city, of the county, and the justice system.

This frustration has led some call for getting rid of that committee, even.

- Well, Councilman Mike Gallagher, who is one of the three Republicans on county council, has said according to cleveland.com, that he wouldn't mind seeing this steering committee abolished and to put the power back in the hands of county council, which does make funding decisions for the county.

I think that's a sign of just when you've got so many cooks in the kitchen here trying to make this stew, you're gonna run into some conflicts.

And like Richard said, I mean, there is this issue of we had this rash of deaths at the jail, a point that some folks in the Prosecutor's Office made to cleveland.com recently, was that it wasn't the structure of the jail that led to these deaths.

And I think what they were getting at was it was the human conditions inside.

It was the staffing, it was the practice of red zoning, where inmates were locked up for long periods of time.

It was the fact that people were overdosing on drugs in the jail.

I mean, those were the issues that were causing these deaths, not necessarily whether the building had a better roof.

That was one of the examples given by the Prosecutor's Office.

And so, I mean, you've got all these issues and all these conflicts, and at the same time, you've got an election for Cuyahoga County executive.

There will be a new executive in office next year.

Both Lee Weingart, the Republican, and Chris Ronayne, the Democrat, have said that they wouldn't mind slowing this process down or even starting over.

So I think they are also keeping an eye on this process as well because one of them is gonna be in charge of a new jail or a renovated jail next year.

(steady music) - A leaked draft of a United States Supreme Court opinion that suggests Roe versus Wade will be overturned by the court has people on both sides of the abortion issue mobilizing.

Karen, Ohio is already preparing trigger bills to ban abortion, should the Supreme Court overturn Roe V Wade, but Governor DeWine says he'll also seek to bring back the heartbeat bill, which is already on the books.

- Well, and I think if Roe falls, it kind of automatically brings back the heartbeat bill.

Now I'm not a lawyer, I don't know exactly how this works, but the heartbeat bill, the so-called heartbeat bill, which is the six-week ban on abortion, it's being challenged in court, and so it's on hold, but it was passed in 2019.

And I mean, the number of sponsors, it had 46 sponsors in the Ohio House, almost in the entire Ohio House Republican Caucus, and 19 sponsors in the Senate.

Again, almost the entire Republican Caucus in the Senate.

So it has a lot of support here.

And so I think that that legislation would automatically potentially come into effect, but there is also this trigger abortion ban bill that was just proposed a couple weeks ago.

It's only had its first hearing, but lawmakers are coming back here as they wait to find out when their primary is going to be.

They're coming back here to do some business, and I wonder if this is the kind of bill that they're gonna push forward so that they can be prepared for if indeed, that draft opinion turns out to be what's going to happen, then that trigger abortion ban would already be in effect, and therefore, abortion would be banned in Ohio.

- Right, and you've already written how the Democrats in the Ohio House and Senate are trying to protect access to abortion, should it be overturned, by amending the state's constitution.

But is there enough support for that to actually happen?

- Well, my Statehouse News Bureau colleague, Jo Ingles, is looking into that today, but it really looks like when you start talking about the majority, the dominance that Republicans have in the House and Senate, it seems unlikely that that would happen.

Now I know from talking to Democratic US Senator Sherrod Brown, there's some move on the federal level among Democrats to try to get something moving forward.

But again, the lack of votes being there is a real concern.

One thing I thought was really interesting though, when I spoke to Governor Mike DeWine back in January for what was our year-end interview, it turned out to be a start-of-the-year interview.

I specifically asked him, "If Roe versus Wade is overturned, what happens now?"

And he said as a governor who identifies himself as pro-life, he says that, and this is a quote, "We have to redouble our efforts to reach mothers who are contemplating abortion, and we need to give them a viable option so that if they choose to keep that child and have that child, we make a pathway that is easy for them."

And it's interesting to hear someone talk about if it does fall, it's not that abortion will just be gone.

It's that something needs to change so that there is help for women who would be seeking this procedure.

And of course, they're DeWine even acknowledged.

Women could be going to other states where abortion will still be legal, and so Ohio would need to consider that as a possibility as well if the goal is really to stop abortion.

Well, don't you need to stop the things that create the situations where women do seek abortions?

(steady music) - The race for Ohio Governor comes down to incumbent Republican Mike DeWine, who fended off three primary challengers, and Democrat Nan Whaley.

The former Dayton Mayor becomes the first woman in Ohio history to win a major party's nomination to run for governor.

Karen, do you think though that the leaked Supreme Court opinion motivated voters at all in the primary?

- Well, she sure thinks so.

Nan Whaley does when she was asked on election night, if she thought that was one of the reasons.

And she didn't just win, she really crushed her opponent, John Cranley.

And I think that that was kind of a surprise to some people who were thinking this was a race that was a lot of policy being talked about, very civil, a lot of ideas being exchanged.

And yet, she won by a two-to-one margin.

So she certainly thinks so.

And I was at an event yesterday sponsored by the Ohio Chamber of Commerce that does a post-election review, and the Head of the Ohio Chamber of Commerce, Steve Stivers, former Republican Congress member, said he thinks that it probably played a role in how Democrats voted and the number of Democrats who turned out.

I don't suppose we'll ever know, but certainly, Nan Whaley has made this a major issue, and it draws a star contrast between her and Mike DeWine on that issue and on others as well, but on that issue in particular.

- Richard, I think a lot of us were probably surprised at the margin Whaley won by.

Do you think that played in given that she and Cranley were similar in terms of messaging?

- I have to think that it did.

I'm among those who was very surprised by the landslide margin of Whaley's victory.

I also think that in a kind of related manner, the fact that there were two women on the ballot on the ticket.

- Cheryl Stephens, right.

- Cheryl Stephens from Cuyahoga County, along with Nan Whaley, who now becomes the first woman on the ballot for governorship.

Had a lot to do with the turnout and support that she received.

- Let's move on to the US races, the Senate race, closely watched nationally here in Ohio, or at least the Republican primary was.

JD Vance prevailing in a crowded expensive race, boosted by a late campaign endorsement from the former President.

He'll square off against Democrat Tim Ryan.

Karen, you frame this contest is between two populists.

That campaign started really during their acceptance speeches.

- Oh yeah, I mean, JD Vance, right after thanking everybody and actually praising his opponents.

He had four other major opponents in this race, calling for party unity, but then saying that Tim Ryan's gotta go.

It's interesting because JD Vance is not gonna rest at all.

He's gonna be tonight in Greensburg, Pennsylvania, speaking at a rally featuring former President Trump.

So obviously, even though Trump got his name wrong just a couple of days before the primary, there's going to be at least an opportunity for them to appear on stage together.

And what voters make of that is what they will.

But on the other side, Tim Ryan, whose race was called not even a half an hour after the polls closed, he tweeted out an ad right away, going straight at JD Vance.

And he's been really clear that he is going to be campaigning on issues that people are concerned about, related to inflation, and jobs and that sort of thing, and staying away from some of the cultural issues, which of course, has been a big part of what Republicans were campaigning on.

So I really think this is gonna be an interesting race.

Tim Ryan has a huge hill to climb to beat JD Vance in the state.

I mean, Donald Trump won Ohio in 2016 and 2020.

And Mike DeWine has a very strong presence in this state as well.

So I never wanna predict anything, but it's a big, big hill to climb.

- Let's move to the Ohio 11th Congressional District primary.

Congresswoman Shontel Brown defeating Nina Turner by a bigger margin than she did a year ago.

Richard, you wrote the power of incumbency helped to drive Brown to victory.

- No question.

Shontel Brown was not as well known as former state Senator Nina Turner.

Nina had all the advantages last year in terms of money, in terms of name recognition, and it was an open seat.

She squandered a lot of that with some not wise strategic choices in terms of how she ran her campaign.

There was a lot of outside money coming in.

I think that played a role.

But once Brown won handily last year, the handwriting was pretty much on the wall.

And I had talked to a lot of folk who either felt that the new congressperson should be given some rope to prove herself.

She became better known.

This time around, she secured the endorsement of the President of the United States as well as all the other establishment figures who had endorsed her the first time.

And some of Turner's support was no longer there, including with some surprise, well, not really that much surprise, but the congressional progressive pack, which was for Turner last year, this time closed ranks around one who is semi-one of their own, at least.

I wouldn't call Representative Brown a progressive, but she is in Congress and they tend to close ranks.

- Yeah, and more progressive than some of the other members of the Congress.

Nick, the big margin, did that surprise you?

You've been digging into voting results.

- I thought it was going to be closer, especially looking at the results last time last year.

This was a different district with different boundaries.

I think some of us were looking at the inclusion of the city of Lakewood as a possible boon to Turner.

Lakewood voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 presidential primary.

Turner, of course, very closely connected to Sanders as a former co-chair of his campaign.

But Brown actually won Lakewood by about 44 votes.

So that advantage for Turner just was not there, or what advantage there was simply not enough.

I think Richard is right, that the power of incumbency is a real thing.

Even just looking at the endorsements that Brown received during the race, a lot of people within the Cleveland area political world went for Brown, including some members of city council who were fans of Nina Turner last time.

Council President Blaine Griffin was a big endorsement of Turner's last year.

This year, he was for Brown.

Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb also came out forcefully for Brown.

I think some of his more progressive supporters were dismayed by that, especially when you look at the fact that Bibb had a lot of political support in places in Cleveland, like downtown in the near West Side that are also very Turner-favorable.

But I think it's clear that the political community of Cleveland by and large said, "Brown is the incumbent, and we're gonna support her and give her a chance to actually serve out a full term in office."

And that's what happened.

- Turnout, we were low this week, just 21%.

That's less than 2 million of Ohio's 8 million voters participating.

We still have to go to the polls for the state House and the state Senate races probably in August, once the map mess is resolved.

Low turnout could make a difference then, it could make a difference in November.

- Absolutely.

I think it'll make more of a difference in August because those state House races often are not high profile.

Most voters probably can't even identify who their representatives are.

And that's likely to change even more the case with redrawing districts.

The candidates right now don't even know who they'll be running against in every instance.

And so- - Some don't know where they live yet.

- Exactly, it's a mess, it's a mess.

(steady music) - The group pushing to legalize recreational marijuana in Ohio has filed a lawsuit, claiming Republican leaders are trying to delay efforts to get the issue before voters.

Karen, crux of the lawsuit is how lawyers for the GOP read state law when it comes to submitting what's known as an initiated statute to the legislature.

What's an initiated statute?

- Yeah, an initiated statute is when a group gathers petition signatures and brings a particular law to the legislature.

The legislature then has three months to pass that law as is, not change it or anything.

And if they do, then all is well, I guess.

And then if they don't, then this group that brought the law to the legislature can go back at more signatures and bring it to voters.

I think the smoking ban is a really good example of that.

That was an initiated statute.

But this is an issue that I think could really potentially have a huge impact on the fall election.

If indeed the group does get the hundreds of thousands of signatures to go forward with this on the fall ballot, 'cause I'm pretty much discounting that the legislature might do something, especially by that deadline of the end of this month, and legislative leaders have said that they're not interested in legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes.

But polls have shown that voters like this idea.

And so if this indeed did go to the ballot in the fall, that could really make a difference, I think for voters who were considering not turning out, perhaps 'cause a lot of voters don't turn out unless it's a presidential election, which is a shame.

But also just because it's a big issue.

It's an issue that they feel passionately about one way or the other.

- Why could it take a full year difference if it goes through this route?

And we see the possible ballot measure pop up in 23 instead two.

- Well, I mean I think that there's still the possibility it could happen this year.

I believe the deadline to gather signatures is in July.

Now that's a huge lift for this group, but this group is a professional organization and can hire people to go out and gather signatures.

So I think that there's a possibility this could happen, but it seems difficult.

Now obviously, this lawsuit involved here can make some changes, but I just think that this is an issue that certainly polls have shown that people want to see happen.

People want marijuana legalized in some way, and a lot of people have expressed frustration in Ohio's medical marijuana program, saying it's too expensive, it's cumbersome.

And that legalizing marijuana in general is the way that they wanna see it go.

- [Rick] Richard Andrews.

- To your question about the difference between the marijuana measure being on the ballot this year versus next, politicians typically want only their voters to come out and vote.

And so if the Republicans feel that most of the people who would come out and support of recreational marijuana are likely to vote Democratic, while they're there at the polls, they're also likely to vote for some Supreme Court justices, and as well as in the statewide executive races.

If the measure was somehow put off till next year, you don't have statewide issues, statewide elections, that would be a special election, and the turnout would undoubtedly be much lower.

(steady music) - The Rock Hall Induction Class of 2022 has been announced.

The induction ceremony will be held in November in Los Angeles.

Pat Benatar is in, Duran Duran, Eminem, the Eurythmics, Dolly Parton, Lionel Richie, Carly Simon.

Music Excellence Awards go to Judas Priest, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

The Early Influence Award inductees Harry Belafonte, Elizabeth Cotten.

Karen, what do you like?

What did you not like?

- Well, I mean, Dolly Parton did an interview on NPR a couple days ago where she specifically explained why she had taken herself out of consideration, and it almost certainly got her into the Rock Hall because she said she didn't feel like she deserved it, that other people deserved that place in the Rock Hall, but she obviously does deserve it.

And I think this is one of the best classes that has been in a while.

Duran Duran and Harry Belafonte, there's some really, really cool people to be excited about here.

- Richard, Harry Belafonte did excite some folks to see it.

And I think a lot of us were like, "Wait a minute, he's not already there?"

- What is rock and roll these days?

I don't know how to define it anymore.

- [Rick] True.

- I love Harry Belafonte for all kinds of reasons.

"Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall" is still one of my favorite albums, but that was 60 years ago.

I don't know what rock and roll is anymore, so... - We discussed this yesterday.

Callers expressed frustration that the Ohio players are not in, that Chaka Khan is not in, the local heroes Devo were snubbed again.

You brought up a valid question.

We had a caller yesterday who said, "Why don't we just change the name of the place?"

And our panel was waxing and waning on whether or not that makes sense.

But yeah, music is music.

- I thought about it yesterday in preparation for the day.

And I think a new name might be in order, but I don't know what it would be.

- Okay, yeah.

(laughs) Nobody knows what would it be.

Nick Castele, anything you wanna weigh in on the Rock Hall?

(Nick chuckles) - Well, it really is a popular music hall of fame.

That doesn't sound as good though as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame but - No, that doesn't.

- for purely branding purposes, I think the name should stay the same, even if the focus is a little broader.

- Monday on "The Sound of Ideas" on 89.7 WKSU, we'll discuss the effort to connect students directly to careers and to help solve the region's talent gaps through the formation of the Greater Cleveland Career Consortium.

I'm Rick Jackson, thanks so much for watching.

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