REDISTRICTING DRAMA ENDS FOR NOW.

WELCOME TO COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD.

>>> OHIO'S REDISTRICTING DRAMA ENDS -- FOR NOW.

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

IT TURNS OUT REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS CAN AGREE ON STATE LEGISLATIVE MAPS.

IN A SURPRISE LATE NIGHT MEETING THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED MAPS FOR THE OHIO HOUSE AND THE OHIO SENATE.

THE MAPS STILL GIVE REPUBLICANS AN ADVANTAGE.

IN THEORY REPUBLICANS WOULD WIN 62% OF THE HOUSE SEATS AND 70% OF THE SENATE SEATS BUT BOTH DEMOCRATS ON THE PANEL, SENATE MINORITY LEADER NICKI ANTONIO AND HOUSE MINORITY LEADER ALISON RUSSO SIGNED OFF ON THE MAPS.

THAT LED VOTING RIGHTS GROUPS AND REDISTRICTING REFORM ADVOCATES TO DENOUNCE BOTH PARTIES THIS TIME AND NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.

ANDREW TOBIAS THE DEMOCRATS SAY THE MAPS ARE UNFAIR, THE PROCESS IS TERRIBLE, BUT THEY STILL VOTED FOR THEM.

WHY?

>> IT IS FUNNY THE SPEECH ALISON RUSSO GAVE MIGHT HAVE LED YOU TO BELIEVE SHE WAS GOING TO VOTE NO BUT SHE VOTED YES.

ESSENTIALLY DEMOCRATS TURNED DOWN A SIMILAR DEAL LAST YEAR.

I THINK THE MAPS WE HAD ELECTIONS UNDER IN 2022 WERE A LITTLE BETTER FOR THEM.

AT THAT TIME I THINK THEY HAD THE THOUGHT THE SUPREME COURT MIGHT BE SYMPATHETIC TO THEM IN THE COURT AND MAYBE WERE HOPING TO RETAIN CONTROL IN THE ELECTIONS.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THIS TIME THEY ARE FACING LIKELY A LESS THAN SYMPATHETIC COURT SO THEY ARE FACED WITH A CHOICE OF THESE MAPS OR MORE REPUBLICAN MAPS THAT REPUBLICANS HAD IN THEIR POCKET HAD THEY VOTED NO SO I GUESS THEY DECIDED TO VOTE YES THOUGH THEY WERE CATCHING FLACK FROM VOTER RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, PEOPLE ON THE LEFT.

>> SO ESSENTIALLY TOOK HALF A LOAF?

SOME DISTRICTS SWUNG A LITTLE MORE TOWARD DEMOCRATS.

>> ONE OF THOSE IN COLUMBUS ON THE WEST SIDE HELD BY STEPHANIE KOONCY COINCIDENTALLY RETIRING DUE TO TERM LIMITS.

THAT GOT MORE DEMOCRATIC.

I THINK THEY ARE SAYING THIS IS THE BEST WE CAN GET IN A BAD SITUATION.

THAT WAS SORT OF THE TAKEAWAY.

>> DID THEY CAVE TOO EASY?

>> YOU KNOW, YOU WILL ONLY KNOW BY HOW MANY SEATS WE ACTUALLY PICK UP FROM SOME OF THESE.

THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO GET IN THE MAJORITY.

I WILL SAY IF THEY CAN WIN SOME OF THESE SEATS WE'D NEVER HAVE HAD THE AUGUST ELECTION BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE SUPER MAJORITY AND THAT IS IMPORTANT, TOO.

WHAT I DO THINK THEY WERE DOING IS THERE WERE A LOT OF SOUR APPLES AND YOU HAD TO PICK THE BEST AND MOST RIPE OF ALL OF THEM.

YOU ALSO KNOW THERE IS A VALID ISSUE NEXT YEAR SO WE MIGHT BE REDRAWING THESE AGAIN.

>> WHY DID REPUBLICANS COMPROMISE?

THEY GAVE UP A LITTLE BIT.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO.

>> THEY GAVE UP A LITTLE BIT BUT IF YOU CAN HAVE BIPARTISANSHIP PARTICULARLY AS YOU PREPARE, MAYBE IF THEY GET ALL THE SIGNATURES IN ISSUE NEXT YEAR THIS TAKES AWAY A LOT OF THE MESSAGE WHEN YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AGREEING BECAUSE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT, THE DEMOCRATS LOOKED AT IT, THE DEVIL YOU KNOW OF DISTRICTS IS MUCH BETTER THAN SOME MYSTERY, COMPLICATED FORMULA THAT MIGHT COME UP WITH SOMETHING FAR WORSE.

I THINK THEY PICKED THE SAFER ALTERNATIVE AND ESPECIALLY THE STATE SENATE THEY COULD PICK UP MORE SEATS THE NEXT TIME.

>> THIS GIVES THEM STABILITY.

THEY MAY NOT LIKE THE MAPS BUT THEY ARE IN PLACE FOR EIGHT YEARS.

>> YOU KNOW, AS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING REDISTRICTING KNOW THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TWO YEARS.

THE DRAWING OF THE MAPS, THE LITIGATING OF THE MAPS, REDRAWING, TWO PRIMARIES LAST YEAR BECAUSE WE COULDN'T GET DONE IN TIME.

SO, I MEAN, THERE IS A LOT TO BE SAID FOR NOT DOING THIS AGAIN FOR A WHILE.

>> THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO DO IT NEXT YEAR HAD THEY NOT BEEN BIPARTISAN THIS TIME.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE CITE THESE INDEXES BUT ACCORDING TO THE INDEXES IN THE LAST CONGRESSIONAL RACE REPUBLICANS WERE GOING TO GET ALL BUT TWO SEATS IN THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP OUT OF 15.

DEMOCRATS ENDED UP WITH FIVE SEATS INCLUDING 3 OF THE 15, 20% OCCUPIED BY AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALES IN A STATE WITH ONLY 13% AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION.

MY POINT IS, THESE INDEXES PEOPLE CITE ARE SPECULATION AND THEORY.

IT DOESN'T ALWAYS MATCH REALITY.

>> I DO DIFFER WITH TERRY IN THIS RESPECT.

I THINK THAT THIS DOES DELIVER THE MESSAGE THAT THE WHOLE PROBLEM IS POLITICIANS ARE DOING IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT PARTY IT IS.

HAVING COME FROM MICHIGAN WHERE THEY PASSED SOMETHING TO TAKE POLITICIANS OUT OF IT, IT PUTS PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF THEIR OWN MAPS.

>> AND HOW MAD ARE VOTING RIGHTS GROUPS, THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, COMMON CAUSE?

THEY'VE BEEN FIGHTING IN COURT, FIGHTING AT THESE HEARINGS.

THEN THEY GET A GERRYMANDERED MAP A LITTLE BETTER THAN THE OLD ONES BUT THE DEMOCRATS VOTE FOR IT AND NOW WE HAVE IT FOR EIGHT YEARS.

>> RANK AND FILE PEOPLE I TALKED TO FEEL KIND OF SOLD OUT AND ARE VERY ANGRY.

YOU SAW IT ON TWITTER THE NIGHT THIS WAS GOING ON.

BUT THE ACTIVISTS, THE GROUPS BEHIND THE EFFORT, THEY MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT NEXT YEAR REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO PAINT THEM AS THIS KIND OF DEMOCRATIC FRONT GROUP THOUGH THEY HAVE REPUBLICAN FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE WHO IS KIND OF THE LEADER OF THE CAMPAIGN AND THEY FEEL THAT BEING ABLE TO BASICALLY SAY DEMOCRATS SCREWED THIS UP, TOO, GIVES THEM MORE COVER TO PRESENT THEMSELVES AS BEING GENUINELY NONPARTISAN.

>> SO CAN REPUBLICANS SAY, THOUGH, WE'VE -- IT WORKED.

WE HAVE A BIPARTISAN MAP.

WE DON'T NEED TO REFORM.

>> ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO CONGRESS IT LOOKS LIKE OHIO.

WHAT A BRILLIANT GROUP OF PEOPLE TO WORK TOGETHER.

>> BUT THE SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED TO DO THAT.

BY REQUIRING BOTH PARTIES TO AGREE IF YOU WANT IT FOR EIGHT YEARS IT WAS PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE REPUBLICANS, WHICH THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE HAD BEFORE TO ACTUALLY TRY TO SIMPLIFY THE MAP.

>> SUCCESS, BRIAN.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, STILL NOT WORKING.

>> ANY CHANCE THIS GOES TO COURT, ANNA?

THE VOTING RIGHTS, THE SUPREME COURT HAS CHANGED, CHANCES ARE PROBABLY TOUGHER.

>> I HATE TO BAT ON WHAT OTHER GROUPS ARE GOING TO DO OR NOT DO BUT I'M LEANING TOWARD PROBABLY NOT.

THE COURT, IF YOU LOOK AT SHARON KENNEDY THE NEW CHIEF SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, IF YOU LOOK AT HER DISSENTS TO SOME OF THE REDISTRICTING CASES, SHE DIDN'T REALLY BUY THIS PROPORTIONALITY ARGUMENT AND SAID IF YOU DO EVERYTHING ELSE PROPORTIONALITY COULD BE SOMETHING YOU STRIVE TOWARD BUT DIDN'T NEED TO ACHIEVE.

I GET THE SENSE THEY SAW THE WRITING ON THE WALL AND ARE REALLY FOCUSED ON THE NEW AMENDMENT.

>> THE FEDERAL COURT DISTRICT THAT PUT THIS ON THE MAP LAST YEAR HAS GOTTEN MORE CONSERVATIVE SINCE DONALD TRUMP APPOINTED A BUNCH OF JUSTICES THERE.

SO I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY IF THEY GET THE SAME PANEL BUT THEIR ODDS WOULDN'T BE GREAT.

>> THE REAL TELL IS WHEN NATIONAL DEMOCRATS FOLDED CARDS ON CONTESTING THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS, GAVE UP THE FIGHT AND WITHDREW THE MONEY YOU KIND OF KNOW IN D.C.

THEY ARE REALIZING OHIO ISN'T AS MUCH IN REACH OR AS IMPORTANT AS THEY THOUGHT.

>> OR THAT WE HAVE A BALLOT ISSUE.

>> COMING UP NEXT NOVEMBER.

WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT REDISTRICTING WE THINK FOR THE NEXT YEAR OR SO.

>>> THE OHIO SUPREME COURT TOOK UP THE CASE OF ABORTION RIGHTS THIS WEEK BUT NOT WHETHER OHIOANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO ABORTION.

THE JUSTICES HEARD ARGUMENTS ON TWO PRETTY TECHNICAL LEGAL ASPECTS TO THE CHALLENGE OF OHIO'S SIX-WEEK BAN.

THE COURT WILL DECIDE IF ABORTION CLINICS CAN SUE ON BEHALF OF THEIR PATIENTS AND IT WILL DECIDE WHETHER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN APPEAL A PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION.

USUALLY YOU HAVE TO WAIT TILL THE FINAL RULING COMES AND THEN APPEAL.

ALL THIS LEGAL MANEUVERING IS HAPPENING AS VOTERS IN TWO WEEKS WILL START DECIDING WHETHER TO ENSHRINE ABORTION RIGHTS IN THE OHIO CONSTITUTION.

ANNA STAVER, THE JUDGE MADE HIS RULING.

HE SAID THE SIX-WEEK BAN IS UN-CONSTITUTIONAL.

YOU WOULD THINK THE OHIO SUPREME COURT WOULD WANT TO SETTLE THAT BUT THEY ARE NOT.

WHY?

>> I THINK IT IS A WONKY LATIN TERM, PRIMA FACIE BURDEN.

HAVE YOU TO DECIDE IF SOMEONE HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO SUE BEFORE YOU CAN DECIDE THE CASE ON ITS MERITS.

YOU FIRST HAVE TO DECIDE THIS VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

ACTUALLY I THINK THE ONE ABOUT WHETHER ABORTION CLINICS CAN SUE ON BEHALF OF THEIR PATIENTS COULD HAVE LARGE SCALE IMPACT FOR ABORTION CASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE IDEA BEING IF A WOMAN'S NAME, I DON'T WANT MY NAME ASSOCIATED WITH A CASE LIKE THAT, LOOK AT JANE ROE.

YOU CAN SUE UNDER A SUED NIM.

DOES A CLINIC NEED TO SUE ON BEHALF OF THEIR PATIENTS?

>> THE OTHER THING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ARGUES IS ONE JUDGE HAS BASICALLY PUT A STATE LAW ON HOLD AND HE SAYS THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN.

>> THE JUDGE ACTUALLY DIDN'T RULE THIS WAS UN-CONSTITUTIONAL THOUGH HE REALLY TELEGRAPHED THAT IT IS BUT IT HAS BEEN ON HOLD BECAUSE HE'S SET A PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION OR MAYBE PERMANENT INJUNCTION THAT PUTS THIS ON HOLD UNTIL HE MAKES THE FINAL DECISION.

THE STATE HAS APPEALED THAT.

THE APPELLATE COURT DETERMINED BECAUSE IT IS NOT A FINAL ORDER.

THERE CAN'T BE AN APPEAL.

IT IS JUST PARKED THERE.

THAT IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS HERE, WHAT THE ABORTION RIGHTS ACTIVIST SAID IN COURT THIS WEEK IS IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT IT IS DELAYED.

THEY BLAMED REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST FOR APPEALING AND TYING IT UP.

THAT IS KIND OF TYING THE CASE UP RIGHT NOW.

SO DEPENDING HOW THE COURT RULED IN THIS ONE IT IS POSSIBLE -- THE QUESTION OF WHETHER WE'LL SEE THIS PLAY OUT OVER SIMILAR ISSUES IN OTHER COURTS IN THE FUTURE.

>> SO THERE ARE LOGICAL REASONS WHY THE COURT IS NOT TAKING THIS UP.

ARE THERE OTHER REASONS LIKE LET'S LET THE VOTERS FIGURE IT OUT FIRST AND THEN WE CAN WEIGH IN IF THE VOTERS REJECT ISSUE ONE?

>> I THINK THE LEGAL TERM IS THE ISSUE MIGHT BE MOOT AFTER THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

>> YES.

>> THERE IS REASON TO KIND OF LET THINGS PLAY OUT.

THESE ARE PRETTY NARROW LEGAL ISSUES.

I THINK THE BIGGER THING ON THE ABORTION ISSUE IS WHAT KIND OF TURNOUT ARE WE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE IN NOVEMBER?

THIS WEEK I WAS CHECKING BOARDS OF ELECTIONS AROUND OHIO AND THE REQUESTS SO FAR TO GET ABSENTEE BALLOTS IS ALMOST SLIM AND NONE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF VOTER FATIGUE OUT THERE AND THE QUESTION IS CAN THEY FIRE IT UP AND WHAT KIND OF TURNOUT WILL WE HAVE FOR THE NOVEMBER ELECTION?

>> WHEN NORMALLY DO PEOPLE START REQUESTING THE BALLOTS?

DO THEY WAIT TILL A MONTH BEFORE?

>> BEFORE THE AUGUST ELECTION BOTH SIDES HAD DONE A LOT WITH MAIL AND PHONES AND OTHER THINGS TO GET PEOPLE TO PUT THE APPLICATIONS IN.

IT WAS HUGE.

NOW IT IS JUST A TINY FRACTION OF WHAT IT WAS COMPARABLE TO THE SAME PERIOD.

I THINK AGAIN VOTER FATIGUE, THINK OF IT.

WE HAD ELECTIONS LAST YEAR IN MAY AND AUGUST AND NOVEMBER AND HAD THEM IN MAY AND AUGUST AND NOVEMBER AND GOT AN ELECTION COMING UP IN MARCH, A PRIMARY.

A LOT OF VOTERS HAVE HAD ENOUGH AND WANT A LITTLE PEACE AND QUIET.

>> ARE REPUBLICANS MORE FATIGUED, BRIAN, THAN DEMOCRATS ON THIS ISSUE?

>> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE TERRY IS.

IT REALLY DOES.

BUT HERE'S THE DEAL.

I GOT HIM TO LAUGH.

BUT HEY.

LOOK.

THERE IS A LOT OF LEGAL THEATER GOING ON HERE WITH THIS.

THERE'S GOING TO BE TURNOUT ON THIS ISSUE.

IT IS GOING TO BE A HUGE ISSUE.

THERE IS A LOT OF NATIONAL MONEY THAT IS GOING TO POUR IN FROM BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

THERE WILL BE EARLY VOTE.

THERE WILL BE ELECTION DAY VOTING.

I AM CONVINCED OF THAT.

>> WE DON'T HAVE CAMPAIGN FINANCING UNTIL LATE OCTOBER AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS MONEY COMING IN.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY'RE RAISING OR SPENDING.

THERE IS A NEW AD OUT FROM THE YES ON ONE SIDE, TALKS ABOUT THIS COUPLE THAT HAD A LATE-TERM, SOMETHING HAPPENED TO THE FETUS AND THEY HAD TO GO OUT OF STATE TO END THE PREGNANCY WHEN THE FETUS WAS NO LONGER VIABLE BUT THE NO SIDE IS NOT REALLY UP ON THE AIR YET.

>> THEY DID RUN A LIMITED FLIGHT OF ADS DURING THE OHIO STATE/NOTRE DAME GAME LAST WEEKEND.

IT IS UNUSUAL TO SEE A CAMPAIGN BY A SINGLE DAY OF ADVERTISING GO QUIET AGAIN.

I WOULD READ INTO THAT THEY WOULD BE RUNNING ADS IF THEY COULD AFFORD THEM THOUGH WE SEE CONSERVATIVE LEADING GROUPS GENERALLY WAIT A LITTLE LONGER CLOSER TO ELECTION DAY.

THEY HAD TROUBLE RAISING MONEY IN AUGUST AS A PROXY ISSUE AND I KIND OF THINK IT MIGHT TRANSLATE OVER INTO NOVEMBER, TOO.

>> HAVE WE HEARD THEY HAVE MONEY PROBLEMS?

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE ADS ON BOTH SIDES EVENTUALLY.

I THINK IT IS A LITTLE SLOW ON THE PRO LIFE SIDE.

WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THIS LEGAL MANEUVER IS ACTUALLY REMINDING VOTERS DO YOU REALLY WANT THE COURTS TO DECIDE THIS OR DO YOU WANT TO DECIDE IT?

>> A CHALLENGE ON BALLOT ISSUES IS WHOEVER DEFINES THE ISSUE FIRST GENERALLY HAS THE ADVANTAGE UNLESS THE OTHER SIDE BOTH CAN HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY AT THE END AND A COMPELLING MESSAGE.

THAT IS WHAT WE DON'T KNOW YET BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ON TV.

>> AND THERE IS STILL A LITTLE DIVISION AMONG THE NO ON ONE SIDE.

WE'VE GOT SOME, AT LEAST I GOT SOME CRAZY E-MAILS THIS WEEK WITH SOME VIDEOS, YOU KNOW, MOCK ADS ALMOST, BUT STILL SOME DIVISION ON THAT SIDE.

>> I THINK THERE IS SOME DIVISION OVER HOW TO MARKET TO FOLKS, LIKE I THINK ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE IS EVEN IF YOU'RE PRO ABORTION ACCESS YOU SHOULDN'T BE A PRO THIS AMENDMENT THAT PERHAPS IT IS TOO EXTREME FOR WHERE YOU ARE.

THEN THERE ARE FOLKS WHO WANT TO MAKE THE PARENTAL RIGHT ARGUMENTS, ARGUMENTS ABOUT TRANSGENDERS, SPECIFICALLY ACCESS TO SURGERY OR HORMONE THERAPY, AND I THINK THERE IS THIS REAL DIVIDE AS TO WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE ISSUE TO CONVINCE PERHAPS THOSE FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE WHO ARE PRO CHOICE THAT THIS IS NOT THE AMENDMENT FOR THEM.

>> WHY HAS THAT HAPPENED?

IS IT JUST PEOPLE ARE FIRM IN THEIR BELIEF ABORTION IS WRONG, IMMORAL, AND SHOULD BE ILLEGAL AND WE SHOULD NOT COMPROMISE WITH A 10 OR 12-WEEK BAN IN THE HOPE OF SAYING THIS IS TOO EXTREME?

>> HAVEN'T DONE LOTS OF POLLING ON FOLK -- HAVING DONE LOTS OF POLLING ON FOCUS GROUPS OVER THE YEARS THERE ARE PEOPLE ON BOTH ENDS WHO ARE ABSOLUTISTS IN WHAT THEY BELIEVE BUT MOST PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE HAVE DIFFERENT SHADES OF WHERE THEY'RE AT INCLUDING THE RAPE AND INCEST, SHOULD THERE BE AN EXCEPTION FOR THAT.

LEGALLY IN THEIR AMENDMENT IT TALKS ABOUT FETAL VIABILITY BUT THEN THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE MOTHER'S HEALTH IS AFFECTED.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF UNKNOWNS.

HOW DO YOU GO ARGUING SPLITTING THOSE LEGAL HAIRS?

>>> AN OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY STUDY PREDICTS THE STATE COULD COLLECT A LOT OF TAX MONEY IF VOTERS APPROVE LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA IN NOVEMBER.

THE OSU DRUG ENFORCEMENT AND POLICY CENTER ESTIMATES OHIO COULD BRING IN UP TO $218 MILLION IN YEAR ONE AFTER LEGALIZATION.

THAT COULD GROW TO UP TO $400 MILLION A YEAR IN YEAR FOUR.

THEN TAX REVENUES WOULD START TO LEVEL OFF AND EVEN FALL.

RESEARCHERS BASE ESTIMATES ON WHAT HAPPENED IN OTHER STATES.

BRIAN ROTHENBERG, YOU SPENT TIME IN MICHIGAN SOON AFTER IT WAS LEGALIZED THERE, MARIJUANA FOR FUN WAS LEGALIZED.

DID THEY SEE THOSE KINDS OF NUMBERS?

>> WELL YEAH.

YOU SAW AN INITIAL SPIKE.

IT BRINGS IN BOTH THE MONEY AND THE GANJA.

WHAT IT DOES DO OVER TIME IS THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM THAT OPENED UP AND OVER TIME NATIONAL CONGLOMERATES CAME IN AND STARTED TO EAT EACH OTHER UP AND IT KIND OF LEVELED OFF ON SOME OF THE REVENUE.

I WILL SAY THIS.

PART OF THE PROBLEM IS IF IT DOESN'T GET FIXED YOU CAN'T USE ACTUAL CASH IN THESE INSTITUTIONS AND IT CAUSES ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS.

>> YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD WHEN I WAS READING THE NUMBERS, TERRY >> I REMEMBER WHEN THE PROJECTIONS OF CASINOS, THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WERE GOING TO COME IN AND, YES, MONEY DID COME IN BUT IT WAS FAR LESS THAN THE ESTIMATES AND ALSO SOMETIMES THERE IS A SHIFTING.

PEOPLE MIGHT SPEND MONEY ON MARIJUANA THEY USED TO SPEND ON ALCOHOL SO YOU REALLY HAD A NET -- HAVE YOU REALLY HAD A NET ECONOMIC GAIN?

I THINK SOME OF THE PROJECTIONS, PROFESSORS CAN DO ANYTHING ON PAPER BUT WHAT HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE IS OFTEN DIFFERENT.

>> THESE ARE INDEPENDENT PROJECTIONS NOT DONE BY THE MARIJUANA ORGANIZATIONS.

>> BUT, STILL, THERE IS GOING TO BE EXTRA COST BECAUSE WITH YOUTH, OTHER PEOPLE, THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE PROBLEMS, WHETHER AS BIG A PROBLEMS AS SOME PEOPLE SAY.

WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE COSTS THAT OUR SOCIETY, GOVERNMENTS HAVE TO ABSORB.

>> ONE NOTE, WE TALKED TO THE CHAIR OF THE OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THEY ARE NEUTRAL ON THIS ISSUE, NOT TAKING A STAND.

THEY ARE FOR ISSUE ONE BUT LEAVING IT TO LOCAL FOLKS TO ENDORSE ISSUE TWO >> I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING CHOICE.

I THINK BECAUSE IT IS ONE OF THOSE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLLING DATA, THE OLDER YOU GET THE LESS LIKELY YOU ARE TO SUPPORT MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION.

I THINK IT IS A RECOGNITION WHETHER YOU ARE PRO RECREATIONAL CANNABIS OR NOT IS LESS A PARTY ISSUE AND MORE AN INDIVIDUAL ISSUE.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE THAT SWING BOTH WAYS.

I THINK IT IS JUST KIND OF A REFLECTION OF THAT.

IT IS REALLY INTERESTING TO WATCH.

IT DOESN'T BREAK ALONG PARTY LINES NEARLY AS MUCH AS IT BREAKS ALONG AGE BRACKETS.

>> BRIAN, WHY WON'T THE DEMOCRATS ENDORSE THIS?

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

>> I THINK EXACTLY, THEY ARE LEAVING IT UP TO THE COUNTY PARTIES.

I THINK FRANKLY COUNTY DID ENDORSE IT BUT I THINK IT IS UP TO EACH ONE OF THEM.

BUT IT IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT ISN'T A PARTISAN ISSUE.

EVEN AMONG LABOR, I MEAN SOME FOLKS WORRY ABOUT, WILL IT CAUSE ANY KIND OF SAFETY ISSUE AT THE WORKPLACE?

OTHERS SAY, IF YOU DO THIS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET JOBS BECAUSE OF THE TESTING.

WHICH A LOT OF THE MAJOR MANUFACTURERS HAVE STOPPED THE TESTING.

>> TERRY, YOU WANTED TO CHIME IN?

>> I AM TRYING TO THINK.

I FORGOT WHAT MY THOUGHT WAS.

OH, THE POINT I WAS GOING TO MAKE, ANNA MADE A VERY GOOD POINT ABOUT OLDER PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO TURN OUT IN THIS ELECTION AND I THINK IF THE YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T FEEL EXCITEMENT, AND IT IS UNCLEAR WHETHER ON THE PRO OR CON SIDE ON THE MARIJUANA ISSUE WHETHER THERE IS ANY REAL MONEY TO RUN AN EFFECTIVE CAMPAIGN SO A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

I THINK THE AGE DIVIDE COULD BE SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THE MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS IT TENDS TO BE OLDER BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT PROPERTY TAX LEVIES, TOWNSHIP TRUSTEES, SCHOOL BOARDS.

THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS EXCITE YOUNG VOTERS.

>> THESE TWO ISSUES MIGHT AND A LOT OF FOLKS PREDICT IT WILL.

ANYWAY.

>>> SPEAKING OF TAXES ON THINGS THAT CAN HURT YOU A GROUP OF OHIO HOUSE REPUBLICANS PROPOSE A $10 MILLION TAX CREDIT FOR GUN AND AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS WHO WOULD EXPAND OPERATIONS IN OHIO.

AND THE BILL WOULD ELIMINATE SALES TAXES AND USE TAXES ON GUNS AND AMMUNITION.

SUPPORTERS SAY THE BILL WOULD PROMOTE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AND EXPAND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

DEMOCRATS CALL THE BILL MORALLY BANKRUPT.

INSTEAD, THEY HAVE A SEPARATE BILL THAT WOULD EXEMPT GUN SAFETY DEVICES LIKE TRIGGER LOCKS FROM SALES TAXES.

TERRY CASEY, NO TAX ON GUNS?

GOOD IDEA?

>> AS ONE PERSON AT THE STATE HOUSE TOLD ME THIS IS KIND OF LIKE CAT NIP FOR THE BASE AND ALSO A BIT OF A REACTION BY SOME LEGISLATORS ANGRY WITH CALIFORNIA TRIPLING THE TAXES OUT THERE ON GUNS AND BULLETS AND THAT KIND OF THING.

MY SENSE IS THIS IS NOT ON A FAST TRACK.

I THINK IT'S GOT SOME CHALLENGES BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME LEGISLATORS CORRECTLY THAT RAISE THIS MIGHT BE A 40 TO $50 MILLION HIT IN BOTH STATE, SALES TAX, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, THEIR SALES TAX COLLECTIONS, TOO.

DON'T EXPECT THIS TO BE AS THEY DID WITH SUPERMAN THE SPEED OF A BULLET.

>> ARE THERE NO OTHER GUN RESTRICTIONS TO LOOSEN IN OHIO?

YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE TAXES NOW?

>> YEAH.

THEY'VE GONE PRETTY FAR.

IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN WHERE CAN YOU GO WRONG WITH CUTTING TAXES AND LETTING PEOPLE BUY MORE GUNS?

>> BRIAN, THE ARGUMENT IS YOU SHOULD NOT TAX A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT AND THEY POINT OUT NEWSPAPERS DON'T PAY A SALES TAX.

>> I GOT A GREAT IDEA AND I AM NOT A LEGISLATOR BUT I WOULD JUST INSTEAD OF DOING THAT LET'S DO AWAY WITH THE TAX AND CREATE A LIABILITY FUND WITH ALL THAT MONEY FOR VICTIMS OF GUN VIOLENCE, BECAUSE THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS HOW MUCH GUN VIOLENCE WE HAVE AROUND HERE.

>> HOW ABOUT THIS?

IF YOU CAN'T TAX THE SECOND AMENDMENT YOU CAN'T TAX THE FIRST AMENDMENT SO THAT MEANS THERE SHOULDN'T BE A TAX ON TVs, JOURNALISTS, TV PEOPLE SHOULD NOT, RADIO PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX.

>> THE HYPOCRISY IN OHIO IS NEWSPAPERS ARE EXEMPT FROM SALES TAX BUT WHEN YOU BUY A MAGAZINE OR BOOK YOU PAY SALES TAX.

SO IT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I THINK BACK IN THE DAY WHEN NEWSPAPERS WERE REALLY POWERFUL, THEY GOT THAT EXEMPTION, WELL, LEGAL ADVERTISING, ETCETERA.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT RAISE, LOOK, DO THEY REALLY DESERVE THE EXEMPTION THEY HAVE?

>> ONE THING ABOUT THE TRIGGER LOCK SALES TAX EXEMPTION, THAT GETS SUPPORT FROM BOTH SIDES ON THE ISSUE WHICH IS UNIQUE.

>> ONE OF THE FIRST BIPARTISAN GUN BILLS TO COME THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE IN A REALLY LONG TIME.

WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT IT, YEAH, ALSO EXEMPT ON GUN SAVES WHICH CAN BE VERY EXPENSIVE ESPECIALLY WITH A LARGER SAFE.

ALSO THE IDEA OF -- SEAN BRENNAN A REPRESENTATIVE FROM PARMA IS REALLY PUSHING THIS AND TALKING ABOUT HOPEFULLY GETTING SOME DOCUMENTATION AROUND, IN THE STORE.

WHEN YOU GO TO CABELA'S IT'LL SAY, HEY.

YOU CAN GET YOUR GUN SAFE TAX FREE OR GUN LOCK TAX FREE AND HOPEFULLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW TO SAFELY STORE THEIR WEAPONS.

>> DOES THAT HAVE A CHANCE AT PASSING?

>> I THINK IT DOES.

>> KIND OF MAKES SENSE.

TALKING ABOUT COMMON SENSE GUN RULES.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

EVEN THOUGH THE SAVES ARE EXPENSIVE, TRIGGER LOCKS NOT SO MUCH.

SYMBOLIC AND RAISE AWARENESS.

>>> LET'S GET TO THE BIGGEST ISSUE OF THE WEEK.

THE FEUD BETWEEN RYAN DAY AND LOU HOLTZ.

REMEMBER HIM?

IN CASE YOU HAVE NOT HEARD, LONG RETIRED NOTRE DAME FOOTBALL COACH LOU HOLTZ QUESTIONED OHIO STATE'S PHYSICALITY BEFORE OSU'S GAME AGAINST NOTRE DAME.

IN CASE YOU HADN'T HEARD, OSU WON THE GAME IN THRILLING FASHION AND RIGHT AFTER THE GAME ITS COACH RYAN DAY BLASTED HOLTZ FOR SAYING HIS TEAM WAS NOT TOUGH ENOUGH.

TERRY CASEY MY THEORY IS HE WASN'T AIMING HIS COMMENTS AT LOU HOLTZ BUT AT ALL THE RABID BUCKEYE FANS WHO ARE NEVER SATISFIED WHEN YOU WIN BY 30 WHEN YOU COULD HAVE WON BY 35.

>> MY SENSE IS, AND BY THE WAY I AM WEARING A TIE WITH NOTRE DAME COLORS.

>> THEY LOOK LIKE MICHIGAN COLORS TO ME.

>> THEY ARE NOTRE DAME COLORS TO THANK LOU HOLTZ FOR MOTIVATING THE TEAM.

WHAT RYAN DAY HAS TO DO, HE'S GOT UNBEATEN MARYLAND COMING UP IN THE HOME COMING GAME.

THAT IS GOING TO BE TOUGH.

THEN YOU'VE GOT PENN STATE, WISCONSIN AT WISCONSIN AND AT MICHIGAN.

HE NEEDS TO KEEP THIS TEAM FIRED UP AND HAVING A CHIP ON THEIR SHOULDERS SO THEY'RE MOTIVATED BUT A THERE'S STILL A LOT OF TOUGH GAMES AHEAD SO I THINK HE IS A PRIME MOTIVATOR AND THANKS LOU HOLTZ.

>> DO BOARDS WORK?

>> YES.

>> THEY DO.

I THINK IT HELPED IN THAT INSTANCE BUT I THINK OHIO STATE NEEDS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR SCHEDULE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY GOT A LOT OF TOUGH TEAMS COMING IN IN FUTURE YEARS.

>> I FORGET WHO SAID IT, 20 OR 30 YEARS AGO, MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN OLD COACH.

NO WAY, NO PLEASING OHIO STATE FANS.

ARE EXPECTATIONS TOO HIGH?

>> I MEAN, I THINK SOMETIMES, YEAH.

WHAT I TRY TO KEEP IN MIND, TOO, IS OUR NEW QUARTERBACK IS A FRESHMAN.

HE'S YOUNG.

SOMETIMES YOU THINK, OH, THIS PERSON IS 19 OR 20 YEARS OLD AND PLAYING THESE HUNDRED THOUSAND PERSON ATTENDED GAMES, TELEVISED, BEING CRITICIZED AND THAT IS A LOT TO PUT ON THE SHOULDERS OF A KID ESSENTIALLY.

I ALSO THINK YOU KNOW I AM A BIG BUCKEYE FAN AND I DID ENJOY RYAN DAY BEING LIKE OHIO AGAINST THE WORLD AND SHOUTING DOWN LOU HOLTZ AFTERWARD.

SO I SUPPOSE I SEE IT FROM BOTH ENDS.

>> MORE LOW KEY THAN MOST FOOTBALL COACHES >> I AM A CLEVELAND SPORTS FANS SO I DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE WE DIDN'T WIN BY ENOUGH POINTS THING OBVIOUSLY BUT AS AN OHIO RESIDENT I ENJOYED THE FLAG AND THE WHOLE THING.

I WAS DEFINITELY IN FAVOR OF WHAT RYAN DAY SAID.

>> WE BOSTON SPORTS FANS HAVE GONE FROM CURSED TO ENTITLED SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE FANS ARE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU CAN NEVER SATISFY THOSE FOLKS.

OHIO STATE FANS, ARE THEY ANY DIFFERENT?

I HEARD PEOPLE CALLING FOR NICK SABAN'S FIRING AFTER HE LOST TO TEXAS THIS YEAR.

>> ALL I CAN TELL YOU WHEN I LIVED UP IN MICHIGAN THOSE YEARS THEY THOUGHT WE WERE OBNOXIOUS AND I LOVED IT.

>> SOUTH BEND, PREVIOUS GAMES AT NOTRE DAME, THOSE FANS AT NOTRE DAME, THEY PUT OHIO STATE'S FANS TO SHAME.

THE EXPECTATIONS, THE ENTHUSIASM, THOSE FANS ARE PRETTY INTENSE.

OHIO STATE I CALL THEM KIND OF NORMAL COMPARED TO SOME OTHER SCHOOLS.

>> YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE MOST VOCAL FANS ARE NOT THE MAJORITY FANS.

>> RIGHT.

>> THEY PULL A HUNDRED THOUSAND, MOST OF THOSE FOLKS ARE NOT CALLING FOR RYAN DAY TO BE FIRED.

>> NO.

>> NOT YET.

>> IF HE LOSES TO MICHIGAN AGAIN I DON'T KNOW.

>> BUT THE PROBLEM IS IT IS GOING TO GET TOUGHER AND TOUGHER WITH THE NLI AND EASY TRANSFER, BEING A COACH IS NOT AS EASY IN TERMS OF RECRUITING AND KEEPING THE TALENT ONCE YOU GET THEM THERE AS A FRESHMAN BECAUSE IF THEY DO WELL THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE DANGLING LOTS OF MONEY IN FRONT OF THEM TO GET THEM TO TRANSFER.

>> NOW BLUE JACKET FANS ARE VERY PATIENT AREN'T THEY?

>> THEY NEED TO BE.

[ laughter ] >> MAYBE IF THEY GET FIRED UP A LITTLE BIT THE TEAM WOULD DO BETTER.

>>> ANYWAY LET'S GET TO OUR OFF THE RECORD FINAL PARTING SHOTS.

BRIAN ROTHENBERG YOU'RE FIRST.

>> WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO ANDREW, IF THERE IS A PODCAST IN THE STATE HOUSE THAT THE SENATE REPUBLICANS HAVE, WILL ANYBODY EVEN HEAR IT?

>> TERRY?

>> I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES BECAUSE IF YOU ARE IN COLUMBUS AND OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS LIKE DUBLIN AND OTHERS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE NOT ONE BUT TWO PROPERTY TAXES ON, ONE FOR THE COLUMBUS LIBRARY, AND IF I WAS BETTING I'D SAY THE LIBRARY HAS A BETTER SHOT BECAUSE IT IS A MUCH SMALLER AMOUNT OF MONEY AND THEIR RECORD IS ACTUALLY VERY GOOD.

COLUMBUS SCHOOLS A LOT MORE MONEY AND THEIR RECORD OF FAILURE CONTINUES.

>> OKAY.

ANDREW?

>> MIKE DeWINE BROUGHT BACK WINE WITH THE WINE THIS WEEK TO PROMOTE THE NEW COVID VACCINE TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GET BOOSTED ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE IN A VULNERABLE CATEGORY.

I AM JUST GLAD I WAS ABLE TO LEAVE MY HOUSE AFTERWARD.

>> AND HE KNOWS FROM WHENCE HE SPEAKS BECAUSE HE JUST HAD COVID.

>> IN THE FRONT ROW, A COUPLE HOURS BEFORE HE ANNOUNCED IT.

A REALLY FUN EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

>> ANNA?

>> THE PUBLIC POLICY SIDE OF ME WANTS TO TELL PEOPLE IF YOU WANT TO VOTE IN NOVEMBER'S ELECTION THE DEADLINE IS OCTOBER 10th SO YOU ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME AND DEFINITELY MAKE SURE AND CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE REGISTERED AT THE CORRECT ADDRESS.

>> OF COURSE ANNA WILL BE JOINING US AT WOSU NEXT MONTH AS THE NEW HOST OF "ALL SIDES."

WE ARE JUST THRILLED TO DEATH THAT YOU'LL BE JOINING US AND YOU'LL STILL MAKE YOUR APPEARANCES HERE ONCE IN A WHILE.

WE WON'T BURDEN YOU TOO MUCH.

WE ARE THRILLED TO HAVE YOU AND YOU'LL BRING A LOT TO OUR LISTENERS.

WELCOME.

>> I'M EXCITED.

THANK YOU.

>> MY OFF THE RECORD COMMENT IS WE TALK ABOUT OHIO AGAINST THE WORLD T-SHIRTS.

YOU CAN SEE THAT.

BUT MY FAVORITE IS A BLUE JACKETS AGAINST THE WORLD.

MY COMMENT IS THE WORLD REALLY DOESN'T CARE UNTIL YOU'VE WON YOUR SECOND ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES.

YOUR FIRST AND SECOND-ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

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HAVE A GOOD WEEK.