>> REDISTRICTING ENTERS A NEW PHASE OF CHAOS.

>> 🎵 🎵 >> JOINING US ON COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD THIS WEEK, JULIE, STATE ASSOCIATED PRESS, HER BACHELOR, OSU POLITICAL SCIENTIST AND TERRY CASEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

WE ARE SEVEN WEEKS FROM THE START OF EARLY PRIMARY VOTING IN OHIO AND STILL DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE ON THE BALLOT IN THEIR LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS.

THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION HAS UNTIL THURSDAY TO COME UP WITH A THIRD VERSION OF ALL THE MAPS OF STATE HOUSE AND SENATE DISTRICT, LATE LAST WEEK SUPREME COURT REJECTED THE SET OF MAPS AS A ONLY TOKEN EFFORT TO LIMIT PARTISANSHIP.

AND IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, STATE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS SAYING THEY CAN'T COME UP WITH A CONGRESSIONAL MAP SO GIVEN THAT TASK TO THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

ALL THE WHILE, THE MAY THIRD PRIMARY LOOMS AND STATUS APPEARS IN DOUBT.

JULIE, WHAT ARE THE GOALS OF THIS WHOLE NEW SYSTEM TO GET REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TO WORK TOGETHER TO COME UP WITH A COMPROMISED MAP?

ANY HOPE THAT'S HAPPENING THIS WEEK?

TRYING TO COME UP WITH A MAP FOR THE THIRD TIME?

>> MY GUESS IS NO.

WE HAD A SCOLDING BY THE HIGH COURT LAST TIME AND THE MAP WAS SENT BACK AND THE COMMISSION REALLY DIDN'T DO WHAT IT WAS ASKED TO DO BY THE JUSTICES.

THEY DID ANOTHER PARTY LINE VOTE, AND THAT'S BACK, AND NOW HERE WE ARE.

YOU KNOW, THE ONE MOTIVATING FACTOR MAY BE THE MAJOR PRIMARY BECAUSE IT IS LOOMING, AS YOU SAY, AND THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO -- THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO HAVE TO MOVE THAT PRIMARY.

IT'S NOT IN THE REPUBLICAN'S INTEREST TO DO SO BECAUSE THEY HAVE A REALLY NASTY SENATE RACE GOING ON THAT, WHO WOULD WANT TO PROLONG IT, RIGHT?

SO I THINK THAT'S THE ONE, MAYBE, MOTIVATING FACTOR THAT THEY WOULD ACTUALLY GET SOME DEMOCRATIC VOTES FOR THE NEXT MAP.

THE COURT, THEY BASICALLY SAID YOU NEED TO MEET THAT 54% TO 46% REPUBLICAN ADVANTAGE AMONG VOTERS IN OHIO, YOU GOT TO MEET THAT BASIC BREAK-DOWN OF LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS OR THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT, IS THAT THE WAY YOU READ THE LATEST DECISION?

>> THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY.

THE PROBLEM IS THE WAY OHIO'S POLITICAL GEOGRAPHY IS LAID OUT WITH BOTH REPUBLICANS PACKED IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE STATE, RURAL, MIDDLE-SIZED COUNTIES AND COMMUNITIES VERSUS DEMOCRATS MORE IN URBAN AND CERTAIN SUBURBAN LARGE COUNTIES.

IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE THAT WITHOUT DOING A LOT OF GERRYMANDERING AND VIOLATING OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT TALKS ABOUT KEEPING COUNTIES WHOLE AND NOT UNJUSTLY BREAKING UP COMMUNITIES AND COUNTIES AND CITIES, ET CETERA.

SO THIS IS A REALLY DIFFICULT KIND OF THING BECAUSE WHAT YOU CAN DO MATHEMATICALLY ON PAPER DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK OUT REALISTICALLY BUT WE'RE CLEARLY IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS WHO BLINKS FIRST, BECAUSE MARINO CONNOR SHE KNEW ON DECEMBER 8th WHEN THEY HAD THE ORAL ARGUMENTS, THE FEBRUARY 2nd DEADLINE WAS THERE, HARD, WE ALREADY PASSED THAT AND WHAT DO YOU DO IN TERMS OF ELECTION, NEW FILINGS, PEOPLE HAVE TO MOVE, IT'S COMPLICATED.

>> IS SUPREME COURT IGNORING ONE OR OTHER REQUIREMENTS IN FAVOR OF THIS 54-46 POLITICAL BREAKDOWN ATTEMPT WHICH IS REQUIRED IN THE CONSTITUTION?

>> THERE ARE ALREADY MAPS WHICH HAVE BEEN DRAWN THAT MEET ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS.

NOT PRECISELY, AND WHEN YOU SAY 54-46, IT COULD BE 56-43 OR WHATEVER, BUT THE MAPS EXIST.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS REFUSE TO OFFER UP THOSE MAPS.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY PARTISAN PROCESS.

IT'S LARGELY BEEN DRIVEN BY ONE REPUBLICAN, THE SENATE PRESIDENT, WHO IS A VERY TALENTED AND VERY BRIGHT PERSON, BUT HE REALLY IS SAYING THE CONSTITUTION REALLY DOESN'T MATTER IN TERMS OF THE MAPS THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN PROPOSING.

SO THERE ARE MAPS OUT THERE THAT I THINK COULD GET DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN VOTES AND YOU WOULD HAVE A TENURE REDISTRICTING.

THE ISSUE HERE IS NOT REALLY ABOUT THE CONVENIENCE OF THE CANDIDATE OR THE BURDEN PUT ON THE ELECTION OFFICIAL.

IT'S REALLY WILL THE SENATE FULFILL OHIO'S WISHES THAT WERE EXPRESSED IN CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT WERE APPROVED?

WILL THOSE WISHES BE FOLLOWED IN TERMS OF IMPLEMENTING A SET OF DISTRICTS THAT GIVE PEOPLE A MEANINGFUL SET OF NONOVERLY GERRYMANDERED DISTRICTS?

>> JULIE, WHY DO THE LAWMAKERS PUNT ON THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP?

WHY DO THEY KICK THAT TO THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION?

IT ALL -- LAWMAKERS ARE DRAWING THESE MAPS ANYWAY, BUT WHAT GETS TO THE COMMISSION, WHY INSTEAD OF JUST DOING IT THEMSELVES?

>> RIGHT.

AND THE COURT DID GIVE THEM 30 DAYS TO DO THIS AND ABOUT FIVE DAYS OUT FROM THAT DEADLINE THEY HAVE SAID THEY CAN'T GET THE NECESSARY DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT FOR AN EMERGENCY CLAUSE.

THE REASON THEY NEEDED AN EMERGENCY CLAUSE ON A BILL THAT WOULD LAY OUT THE MAP IS BECAUSE OF THE MAJOR PRIMARIES WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING.

A BILL NORMALLY WITHOUT THAT CLAUSE TAKES 90 DAYS TO GO INTO EFFECT AND THERE JUST ISN'T TIME.

SO THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION BY CONTRAST ACTS AND THIS MAP BECOMES IMMEDIATELY EFFECTIVE.

>> YEAH, AS LONG AS IT PASSES THE MUSTER OF THE CONSTITUTION, OF OHIO SUPREME COURT GETS THE FOUR VOTE MAJORITY THERE.

THIS HAS BEEN CALLED A GAME OF CHICKEN.

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS PLAYS OUT?

>> THE REPUBLICANS SHOULD RECOGNIZE THAT EVEN IF THEY COME UP WITH A PLAN TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE AT 54, 55, 56, WHATEVER IT IS, THEY'RE STILL GOING TO WIN MANY MORE SEATS BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS SO MUCH BETTER AT CANDIDATE RECRUITMENT, CANDIDATE SUPPORT, FUNDRAISING AND WILL STILL HAVE MORE INCUMBENTS RUNNING.

SO I BET, THE FIRST RESPONSES WERE KIND OF GREEDY, TRYING TO MAXIMIZE, BUT THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT WHEN ALL OF THIS IS DONE, THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE A HEALTHY MAJORITY IN THE OHIO GENERAL ASSEMBLY, EVEN IF THEY HAVE A PLAN THAT LOOKS LIKE ON THE FACE OF IT IT'S 54-45 OR 55-44 OR WHATEVER.

>> DO REPUBLICANS GO FOR THAT?

DO THEY TAKE THAT RISK?

10-YEAR MAP?

TEN YEARS IS A LONG TIME.

THINGS COULD CHANGE.

>> I'M NOT SURE IT'S THE VOTES FOR COMPROMISE, AND DON'T BE SURPRISED THAT SOMEBODY GOES TO FEDERAL COURT AND UNIQUELY.

NORMALLY CAN'T GO TO FEDERAL COURT.

IF THERE'S A WAY THEY CAN GET THERE IN THESE KIND OF CASES IT REQUIRES A CHIEF JUDGE OF THE SIX CIRCUIT IN SINCE, CINCI IN, NATI, SUTTON TO DECIDE THE CASE.

SOMEBODY COULD BLINK FIRST BETWEEN MARINO CONNOR AND MATT HUFFMAN BUT DEFINITELY IN UNCHARTED WATERS HAPPEN.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO WATCH, ANOTHER MONTH TO GO IN THIS PROCESS AND THE IDEA OF MOVING THE MAY PRIMARY, MAYBE TO, REMAINS UNSEEN.

THE U.S. SENATE RACE OF COURSE ONLY RELIES ON ONE MAP AND THAT'S THE OHIO STATE MAP.

BIG FIGHT IS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE AND THERE IS ONE LESS CANDIDATE, BUSINESS MAN BERNIE MARINO WHO SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON TV ADDS HAS PULLED OUT OF THE RACE, SAID HE DECIDED TO WITHDRAW AFTER MEETING WITH FORMAL PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, MARINO SAID HE AGREED THERE ARE RACE AND WOULD OPEN THE DOOR FOR ANTITRUMP CANDIDATES.

YOU KNOW, SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON ADS, ON A LOT OF TV STATIONS, TV SHOWS, WASN'T DOING TOO BADLY IF YOU BELIEVE THE INTERNAL POLLS.

WHY WOULD HE PULL OUT?

>> WELCOME TO THE OHIO VERSION OF "THE APPRENTICE" I THINK HE SAW ALL THAT MONEY, NOT MOVING AND THE CHANCE OF TRUMP BEING KINGMAKER AND PICKING HIM NOT HAPPENING.

I THINK IT'S STILL IN DOUBT WHETHER TRUMP WILL ENDORSE HIM IN SENATE RACE BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH CONNECTIONS TO HIM AND DOESN'T WANT TO BACK SOMEBODY WHO CANT WIN.

SO RIGHT NOW JOSH MANDEL IS STILL THE LEADER BECAUSE HE'S GOT THE NAME I.D.

ADVANTAGE AND HASN'T SPENT ANY MONEY.

WE GOT A LONG WAYS TO GO BUT I'M NOT SURE TRUMP WILL MAKE A DECISION AND PICK SOMEBODY IN OHIO.

>> JIMMY, ANY OF THESE CANDIDATES DOING ANYTHING TO SEPARATE THEMSELVES?

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ONES ACTIVELY COURTING DONALD TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF UNIQUE TACTIC JOSH MANDEL USED A FEW WEEKS AGO WHERE HE DEBATED MORGAN HARPER, THE DEMOCRAT, AND APPEALED TO DONALD TRUMP OF SORTS, TO BASICALLY SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M YOUNG, AND I CAN TAKE DEMOCRATS ON DIRECTLY AND DO WELL WITH IT AND SO THERE'S THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK MOSTLY THEY'RE USING, TO THE PRESIDENT, TRYING TO READ THE TEA LEAVE AND SEE SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> I'M GUESSING MANDEL'S CAMPAIGN SENT A DVD OR LINK OF THAT DEBATE TO FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THIS?

DOES THIS OPEN THE DOOR AS BERNIE MARINO SAYS FOR ANTITRUMP CANDIDATE?

I GUESS IT WOULD BE MATT DOLAN, STATE SENATOR TO SNEAK IN?

>> A PRO TRUMP CANDIDATE, BUT IT'S INTERESTING, NOW GIVEN A BIG AD, WITH THE ENDORSEMENT OF RAND PAUL AND I'M NOT SURE IN A BROADER ELECTORATE, MAYBE AMONG THE REPUBLICAN RIGHT WING WOULD HELP BUT I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS THAT IF THEY START OPENING THE DOOR FOR A STRONGER DEMOCRATIC PERFORMANCE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, I MEAN IF YOU REALLY HAVE TO GO SO FAR TO THE RIGHT TO IN FACT WIN THIS PRIMARY AND I'M REALLY THINKING HERE OF JOSH MANDEL AND MIKE GIBBONS, YOU KNOW, NOT DOLAN AND HEMKIN THEN MAYBE YOU'RE OPENING THE DOOR FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO STEAL IT.

>> CASEY, POLITICO SAYS HE'S SLIPPING IN INTERNAL POLLING, THE ADS BRINGING BACK THE OLD SOUNDBITES OF HIM BEING SHARPLY CRITICAL OF DONALD TRUMP HURT HIM.

WOULD HE HAVE BEEN WISE TO MAYBE, NOT ANTITRUMP, BUT MORE DOWN THE MIDDLE?

SHOULD HE HAVE TAKEN THAT COURSE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO JOIN THE VOCAL SUPPORT OF DONALD TRUMP?

>> MAYBE.

I MEAN HIS PEOPLE VIEW THAT YES, THEY'VE BEEN HIT WITH MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ATTACK ADS, BUT THEY FEEL THEY STILL GOT A BASE.

THE QUESTION IS FOR THEM AND FOR THE OTHER CANDIDATES, HOW DO YOU KNOCK DOWN AND ATTACK JOSH MANDEL?

AND BRING HIM DOWN AND BRING THEM UP?

AND THAT'S A DIFFICULT THING TO DO, BECAUSE IN PRIMARIES, ESPECIALLY REPUBLICANS IN OHIO, THEY DON'T LIKE IT WHEN YOU ATTACK SOMEBODY ELSE.

SO THIS IS A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE AND CLEARLY, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE BEEN SPENT AND MILLIONS MORE WILL BE SPENT.

THE QUESTION IS WHAT MESSAGES WILL ACTUALLY AFFECT AND MOTIVATE VOTERS IN A POSITIVE WAY TO HELP YOUR CANDIDATE.

>> CARSON, IN OTHER STATES, WE'VE SEEN SOFTENING WITH THE ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

DOES THIS ENDORSEMENT MEAN AS MUCH NOW AS IT WOULD HAVE MEANT SIX MONTHS AGO, A YEAR AGO?

>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, BECAUSE DEFINITELY HE HAS TENDED TO ENDORSE, IN SITUATIONS WHERE AS TERRY IMPLIED, YOU KNOW, IT ALREADY IS A FORE GONE CONCLUSION, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO NOW IS FIGURE OUT WHO HAS GOT THE BEST CHANCE, AND THEN BE SURE TO BE BEHIND THE HORSE FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

AND WE OBVIOUSLY SAW THIS PAST WEEK, SOME MAINSTREAM REPUBLICANS TAKING ON THE RNC, BEGINNING TO SPEAK ABOUT THE INSURRECTION BEING VIOLENT AND NOT BEING FAKE AND THE ELECTION NOT BEING STOLEN AND THOSE ARE GRADUALLY NARRATIVES THAT ARE TAKING SOME TRACTION IN, AROUND DIFFERENT STATES.

>> YEAH, MOST NOTABLY MIKE PENCE SAYING THE PRESIDENT WAS WRONG, WHEN HE WAS SAYING HE COULD HAVE OVERTURNED THE ELECTION, A BOLD STATEMENT BY HIM.

ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, WE CAN ASSUME THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES WILL DEBATE, DEBATED A FEW TIMES ALREADY, RYAN LESS THAN ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT DEBATING HIS CHALLENGER MORGAN HARPER, DO YOU THINK THOSE TWO WILL DEBATE OR KEN RYAN WILL SORT OF STAY THE COURSE?

>> I DON'T KNOW, REALLY.

I THINK RYAN NOW HAS MORE OF A REASON TO SAY, HEY, LOOK, MORGAN'S ALREADY PARTICIPATED IN THE DEBATE WITH JOSH MANDEL WHICH WAS A WONDERFULLY BAD STUNT IF YOU WILL, AND SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DEBATE, BUT THE QUESTION REALLY I THINK BECOMES ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, WHAT HAPPENS WITH CRANLEY AND MANWELL, I THINK THAT'S THE MOST INTERESTING QUESTION ABOUT DEBATES.

>> YEAH, AND THOSE TWO HAVE, HAVE BEEN PRETTY CIVIL TOWARDS EACH OTHER AT LEAST OF LATE, SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT TURNS OUT.

AS CRITICS IN STATE START TO LIST THEIR MASK MANDATES, THINGS REMAIN BASICALLY THE SAME HERE IN OHIO, OF COURSE THERE IS NO STATE-WIDE MASK MANDATE HERE BUT SOME CITIES HAVE MASK MANDATES FOR INDOOR PUBLIC PLACES, COLUMBUS IS ONE OF THEM, MAYOR'S SAYS THE MASK MANDATE WILL REMAIN IN PLACE UNTIL FRANKLIN COUNTY TURNS YELLOW ON THE CDC'S TRANSMISSION MAP.

STILL RED, AS IS MOST OF OHIO, MEANS HIGH RATE OF TRANSMISSION.

OHIO HAS A FEW ORANGE COUNTIES MEANING SUBSTANTIAL, YELLOW WOULD BE MODERATE RATE OF TRANSMISSION AND NO PLACE IN OHIO QUALIFIES FOR THAT.

YES, WE STILL HAVE HIGH RATE OF TRANSMISSION, BUT SO IS MASSACHUSETTS, SO IS NEW YORK, SO IS CALIFORNIA AND OREGON, ALL STATES THAT ARE LIFTING THEIR MASK MANDATES.

WHY IS COLUMBUS WAITING FOR THE CDC ALL CLEAR SIGNAL?

>> BECAUSE THAT GIVES THEM COVER FOR A DECISION.

BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING IS WHAT'S HAPPENING NATIONALLY IS THAT WHETHER YOU CALL BLUE STATES OR RED STATES OR WHATEVER, THERE IS A GROWING CONVERGENCE TO EASING MASK MANDATES.

AND I THINK WHAT IS REALLY DEMONSTRATING HERE IS THAT A LOT OF THE RESPONSE TO THE COVID EPIDEMIC HAS REALLY BEEN DRIVEN BY THE STATES.

FEDERAL, WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED TO IMPOSE CERTAIN KINDS OF THINGS, IN FEW CASES LAUGHED OUT BY THE COURTS SO THESE ARE LAUNCHING NOW, GOING THROUGH STATE DECISION AND MASK MANDATES BECOME LESS RELEVANT IF YOU HAVE A POPULATION THAT'S HIGHLY VACCINATED.

BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE MASK MANDATES, AND IT DEPENDS WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WORK FORCE OR SCHOOLS OR WHATEVER, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE MASK MANDATES AND THE VACCINATION LEVEL IS LOW, AND THE CONTAGION RATE IS HIGH, THAT'S A PRESCRIPTION DOWN THE ROAD FOR MORE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND MORE DEATH.

SO I THINK WE'RE SEEING HERE, FATIGUE IS SETTING IN, STATES ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, MARYLAND AND NEW JERSEY AND NEW YORK, CALIFORNIA, SAYING HEY, LOOK, OUR NUMBERS ARE DOWN SO MUCH, WE NOW CAN RELAX THESE MASK MANDATES.

>> YEAH, RIGHT NOW -- >> MORE COMMON POLICY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> YEAH, RIGHT NOW FRANK, 295 CASES PER 100,000 POPULATION.

TO GET DOWN TO THIS MODERATE TRANSMISSION LEVEL WE NEED 50 CASES PER 100,000, SO WE'VE GOT A LITTLE WAY TO SEE GO IN COLUMBUS IF THE CITY STICKS TO THAT BENCH MARK TO GET RID OF THE MASKS.

BUT JULIE CARSON, MENTIONED, DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS WHO ARE LIFTING THE MASK MANDATES, PROBABLY BECAUSE OF THE FATIGUE AND PLUNGING CASES.

>> RIGHT, AND I MEAN THE OMICRON VARIANT IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASES NOW AND IS NOT SENDING AS MANY PEOPLE TO HOSPITALS.

IT'S NOT KILLING AS MANY PEOPLE, AND ONE OF THE BIG MOTIVATORS FOR RESTRICTIONS AROUND VACCINE, OBVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN SAVING LIVES BUT ALSO HUGE DEMAND ON THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, BALANCING THAT AGAINST BUSINESS INTERESTS AND VOTERS WHO HAVE TO COME OUT AND DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO NECESSARILY GOING TO BE HAPPY WITH POLITICIANS WHO ARE LIMITING THEIR PERSONAL LIFE, YOU KNOW, IS WHAT THESE POLITICIANS ARE AFTER.

>> YEAH, CASEY, YOU CAN SEE THE COLUMBUS, LOOK, TAKE THE MASK MANDATE OFF NOW, ANOTHER VARIANT COMES OUT A MONTH FROM NOW AND PUT IT BACK ON.

IS IT SAFER TO GO SLOW?

BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN TERRIBLY AGGRESSIVE ENFORCING THE MASK MANDATE IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS.

>> WELL, I THINK THE MORE RELEVANT INDICATOR IS NOT CASES, BUT IT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN HOSPITALS AND ICUs AND I THINK THINGS ARE BECOMING MORE MANAGEABLE THERE AND YOU ALSO FORGOT TO MENTION PROBABLY THE LEADER, THE FIRST DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR TO MOVE TO A MORE "LET'S LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT INSTEAD OF TRYING TO SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN" WAS THE COLORADO GOVERNOR, SO CLEARLY THE TREND IS OUT THERE AND THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN STOP COVID TOTALLY, 100%, WE GOT TO MANAGE IT BETTER, BUT CLEARLY, THERE'S A SHIFT HAPPENING AND IT HAS BEEN INTERESTING TO SEE THE OTHER DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS MOVE AND CATCH UP WITH THE COLORADO GOVERNOR.

>> DO YOU SEE SOME KIND OF MASK MANDATES REMAINING IN PLACE?

I'M THINKING LIKE ON AIRPLANES OR HEALTHCARE FACILITIES, HOSPITALS, EVEN AFTER COVID IS LARGELY GONE, DO YOU SEE SOME INSTITUTIONS KEEPING A MANDATORY FACE MASK POLICY?

>> YEAH, I THINK THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND THE HEALTHCARE SECTOR WILL STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO IMPOSE MASK MANDATES.

CRUISE LINES MAY EASE UP THEIR MASK MANDATES BUT THEY STILL WILL MAINTAIN THEIR VACCINE MANDATE.

AND REMEMBER, ANY OF US, AND WE CITIZENS, WE CAN CHOOSE TO WEAR A MASK EVEN IF THERE'S NO LONGER A MASK MANDATE.

AND THAT'S REALLY BEEN THE ACTUAL PRACTICE IN MANY CASES RIGHT NOW, EVEN, THE MASK MANDATE AS YOU SAY, NOT BEING ENFORCED MUCH, BUT IF PEOPLE WANT TO WEAR A MASK THEY CERTAINLY CAN.

>> YEAH, YOU STILL SEE SOME FOLKS, USED TO SEE SOME WEARING MASKS ALL THE TIME EVEN WELL BEFORE COVID, CERTAINLY FOLKS FROM ASIA WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS MANY TIMES, PART OF THEIR CULTURE TO WEAR A MASK, SO COULD BE PART OF OURS.

THE BAIL OUT SCANDAL AND BRIBING THE CHAIRMAN OF UTILITIES COMMISSION OF OHIO, THERE WAS LARGE CALLS FOR A SHAKE-UP ON THE PUCO, THAT IS NOT HAPPENING AT LEAST WITH THE LATEST APPOINTMENT, GOVERNOR DERAI RELIGHTED CONWAY TO A FIVE YEAR TERM, A LONG TIME LAWYER FIRST APPOINTED TO THE COMMISSION IN 2017, CRITICS SAY DUWAIN SHOULD HAVE LOOKED OUTSIDE OF THE OHIO ENERGY DEPARTMENT FOR THIS APPOINTMENT, LOOK AT THE HOLD TIED THE NUCLEAR BAIL OUT, GOVERNOR'S OFFICE CALLS CONWAY FAIR AND JUDICIOUS AND POINTS OUT HE VOTED AGAINST A FIRST MAJOR ENERGY REQUEST TWO YEARS AGO.

JULIE CARSON, THIS IS BATTLE ALL THE TIME AT STATE COMMISSION.

YOU NEED EXPERTS BUT TO GET EXPERTS YOU HAVE TO GO TO INDUSTRY AND THAT SHUTS DOWN CONSUMERS AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE UTILITIES.

>> RIGHT, AND I THINK THAT IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, DUVINE MAY HAVE CHOSEN TO BOW TO THE PRESSURE, TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

BUT THE DEMOCRATS ARE COMING FORTH THIS YEAR AND THIS ELECTION CYCLE, TRYING TO MAKE HB 6 AND THE SCANDAL A HUGE ISSUE AND SO IF THE GOVERNOR WERE TO SAY OKAY, WE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY WE DO THINGS, IT WOULD ALMOST BE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THINGS WENT WRONG UNDER THE REPUBLICAN REGIME SO, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY BALANCING THAT WITH PART OF CALCULUS THERE BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, THIS IS A VERY, VERY DIFFICULT AND PARTICULAR INDUSTRY REGULATION OF ENERGY.

WE CAN DO BETTER, PROBABLY, TO HAVE A CONSUMER VOICE ON THERE THAT'S TRULY A CONSUMER VOICE AND TO HAVE A BALANCE RATHER THAN HAVING FOLKS WHO HAVE THESE, HAVE POTENTIAL IN BUSINESS TIES HAPPEN.

>> WAS MARK DUVINE, IF HE APPOINTS OUTSIDER AND ADMITTING TO THE PROBLEM BUT IF HE APPOINTS INSIDER GETS CRITICIZED FOR MAINTAINING THE STATUS QUO.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT DAVID CONWAY AND I KNOW I WORKED WITH HIS WIFE, HE'S A VERY SOLID GUY AND ACTUALLY, AS A COMMISSIONER HE VOTED AGAINST ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT FAVORED FIRST ENERGY, BUT PEOPLE FORGET THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION IS NOT JUST ELECTRIC, IT'S ALSO TELECOMMUNICATIONS, RAILROADS, OTHER ISSUES, AND THESE ARE VERY COMPLEX TECHNICAL ISSUES, NOT JUST WITHIN OHIO, BUT LIKE ELECTRICAL PART OF 13 STATE REGION SO YOU GOT TO HAVE PEOPLE ON THERE WHO REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND CAN ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND PUSH THE STAFF TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS SO I THINK THIS WILL WORK OUT BECAUSE HE'S REPRESENTED CONSUMERS ALSO AND, AGAIN, VOTED AGAINST FIRST ENERGY.

SO PEOPLE MADE THEIR POINT BUT YOU GOT TO HAVE PEOPLE THERE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

>> THE OTHER SIDE, TERRY, SOMETIMES A FRESH PERSPECTIVE, SAY YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO IS SMART AND A QUICK STUDY, WHO MAY NOT BE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN ELECTRIC DEREGULATION, LAWS OF PHYSICS OR TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUT SOMEBODY WHO IS SMART, A QUICK STUDY, MAYBE COULD BRING IN A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, WOULDN'T THAT ALSO BE VALUABLE ON THIS COMMISSION?

>> THAT WOULD BE VALUABLE AND OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, THE GOVERNOR HAS FIVE, THERE'S FIVE APPOINTMENTS TO BE MADE, BUT I THINK THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR IS GOING TO BE APPROVED BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS TECHNICAL BACKGROUND AND HIS RECORD, HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING AND IF I GO TO A MEDICAL DOCTOR, I WANT SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND HAS HAD EXPERIENCE PERFORMING THE PROCEDURES THAT ARE SO IMPORTANT TO YOU.

>> WITH THE POLICY, IS IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR A GOVERNOR TO APPOINT SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT TIED WITH THE ENERGY INDUSTRY?

>> NO, IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

YOU MAY ANTAGONIZE SOME OF YOUR MAJOR DONORS, MAJOR SUPPORTERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT LOOK, WE KNOW FOR YEARS PUCO HAS BEEN CONSIDERED HIGHLY FLAWED.

WE KNOW THAT FIRST ENERGY HAS BEEN A PROBLEM CHILD FOR A LONG TIME.

SO MIKE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPOINT SOMEBODY DIFFERENT.

I THINK AS JULIE SAID, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THINGS WEREN'T ALL THAT GOOD, BUT WHAT HE HAS REALLY DONE IS GIVEN THE DEMOCRATS A FURTHER OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY CALLED UTILITY AND REGULATORY REFORM AND BUILD UPON NOT JUST HB 6 BUT A WHOLE VARIETY OF OTHER ISSUES WHERE ONE COULD LEGITIMATE ARGUE THE INTEREST OF CONSUMERS HAVE NOT BEEN ADEQUATELY PROTECTED.

CONWAY MAY BE VERY TALENTED, BUT THE NOTION THAT HE'S THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD DO THE JOB, NONSENSE.

>> ALL RIGHT, GOT TO GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS AND WE'LL START WITH TERRY CASEY, GO AHEAD.

>> SIX MONTHS AGO ON THIS SHOW, I SAID INFLATION COULD BE A VERY BIG ISSUE IN 2022 AND NOW THIS WEEK, IT'S EVEN MORE CLEAR.

WE'VE GOT THE WORST INFLATION IN 40 YEARS AND UNFORTUNATELY, FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY, PEOPLE UNDERSTAND GASOLINE AND GROCERY PRICES AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD SIGN FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

>> ALL RIGHT, ERIC ASHER YOU'RE UP NEXT.

>> I THINK ONE IMPETUS FOR DISTRICT RECOMPROMISING IS TURMOIL GOING ON ON REDISTRICTING, ON THE SENATE PRIMARY, AND NOW NATIONALLY AMONG REPUBLICANS, I SHOULD SAY, WHO ARE NOT HAPPY WITH TRUMP AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT LIKE TO BRING SOME CALM TO THIS ISSUE AND COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE AND BLINK SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

>> ALL RIGHT, JULIE CARSON -- >> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, LOOKING AHEAD, AS WE OFTEN DO, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO PREDICT FOR THURSDAY.

WE'VE EVEN HEARD THEM SAY THEY DON'T BELIEVE THE DEADLINE IS THURSDAY.

TO GET THIS MAP FIXED, AND SO REALLY I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE ANYONE'S GUESS AND THEY'RE PROBABLY DECIDING IN THE MOMENT RIGHT NOW AND FEELING PRETTY UNPREDICTABLE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

IF YOU LIVE IN COLUMBUS, YOU'RE LIKELY STILL DRIVING ON SNOW-COVERED STREETS, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH SAID THEY CONSIDERED A SIDE STREET SERVICE AFTER A STORM IF A CITY PICK-UP TRICK DRIVES DOWN THE STREET AND PACKS DOWN THE SNOW, THAT'S GOOD NEWS FOR TEENAGERS AND SPOUSES WHO HAD TO GET UP BEFORE DAWN TO SHOVEL THE DRIVE WAY, NOW CAN DRIVE OUR CARS OUT AND CALL THE JOHN DONE.

NO MORE SHOVELING, SERVICING.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE, WOSU.ORG, FOR OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.