>>> MAP-MAKING CHAOS GETS MORE CHAOTIC.

♪♪ ♪♪ >>> JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE "USA TODAY" OHIO NETWORK.

SAM GRESHHAM.

AND A FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR.

THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION DID NOT PUNT ON THIRD DOWN, THEY TOOK THE BALL AND WENT HOME.

FACED WITH A THURSDAY DEADLINE TO COME UP WITH A THIRD MAP OF STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS, THE COMMISSION SAID, WE CAN'T AND WE WON'T DO IT.

DRAWING MAPS FOR STATEHOUSE AND STATE SENATE DISTRICTS THAT MEETS THE DEMANDS OF THE OHIO SUPREME COURT AND OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS WAS IMPOSSIBLE.

DEMOCRATS ON THE COMMISSION DISAGREED AND SAID THEY COULD DRAW MAPS THAT MATCH OHIO'S POLITICAL BREAKDOWN OF 54% REPUBLICAN AND 46% DEMOCRAT.

EVEN REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION LIKE GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE AND SECRETARY OF STATE FRANK LaROSE SAID THEY SHOULD FINISH THE JOB.

BUT IN THE END THE COMMISSION OPENLY DEFIED THE OHIO SUPREME COURT'S ORDER AND ADJOURNED.

LAURA, USUALLY WHEN YOU DEFY A COURT ORDER, THERE'S A PENALTY TO PAY.

DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE COURT MIGHT DO IN THIS CASE?

>> WELL, ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON, THE ACLU OF OHIO, WHICH IS A PARTY IN THE CASE, FILED A MOTION WITH THE OHIO SUPREME COURT ASKING THEM TO SHOW CAUSE OR ASKING THE COURT TO ORDER THE MEMBERS OF THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION TO SHOW CAUSE AS TO WHY THEY DECIDED NOT TO FOLLOW THAT ORDER.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE COURT MAY OR MAY NOT RULE ON THAT.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S IN THE COURT'S COURT RIGHT NOW ON WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT.

>> SAM, YOU'RE INVOLVED WITH COMET CAUSE ACTIVELY INVOLVED AS ONE OF THE MANY VOTER RIGHTS GROUPS PUSHING FOR FAIR MAPS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE COURT SHOULD DO?

>> I THINK THE COURT SHOULD MAINTAIN ITS JURISDICTION AND FIND A REMEDY THAT MAY CREATE A PENALTY FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE COURT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT.

NOW, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY FILED THE MOTIONS WITH THE FEDERAL COURT TO INTERVENE ON THIS ISSUE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS AND HOW THE TWO COURTS WORK TOGETHER, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMMISSION'S ACTIONS.

FIRST, THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE DATE THAT WE ALL HAD SET OUT.

THEY DIDN'T NEED NONE OF THE DATE.

THERE WAS NO TRANSPARENCY IN THE WHOLE PROCESS.

AND NOW THEY GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY DELIVERED THE MAPS, AND THE SUPREME COURT HAS REJECTED THEM TWICE.

I THINK THEY DISREGARDED THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR THIS.

OVERWHELMINGLY THEY DISREGARDED THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF OHIO, AND THEY'VE SHOWN NO RESPECT AT ALL FOR THE PROCESS.

>> WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THE INSTITUTION?

THESE ARE LAWMAKERS, THERE ARE SOME STATE OFFICE HOLDERS, THE STATE AUDITOR, SECRETARY OF STATE, OF COURSE THE GOVERNOR.

BUT TO NOT EVEN COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE EVEN CLOSE TO A THIRD ATTEMPT AT A COMPROMISE, WHAT DOES THAT SAY?

>> OH, LOOK.

I MEAN, THIS IS A POLITICAL PROCESS OF THE MOST POLITICAL PROCESS.

AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, THESE POLITICS THAT ARE REALLY HIGH-LEVEL.

THAT'S ALSO HAPPENING ON TOP OF AN EVEN MORE POLARIZED ELECTORATE.

AND, SO, I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE INSTITUTION.

I THINK IT'S SORT OF A REFLECTION OF WHERE WE ARE AS A STATE AND A NATION, QUITE FRANKLY, WHERE OUR POLITICS ARE.

>> LAURA, IT SEEMS LIKE POLITICIANS ARE RELUCTANT TO ISSUE SUBPOENAS OR CONTEMPT ORDERS AGAINST OTHER POLITICIANS.

WE'VE SEEN IT IN CONGRESS WITH THE JANUARY 6th INVESTIGATION.

I'M GUESSING THAT THE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO BE RELUCTANT TO HOLD LAWMAKERS, ANOTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, IN CONTEMPT.

>> WELL, I MEAN, WE ARE IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY FOR SURE.

THE IDEA -- DURING THE DEROLF CASE WHICH WAS THE SCHOOL FUNDING CASE THAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL MULTIPLE TIMES AND TOLD THE LAWMAKERS TO GO BACK AND FIX IT, AND THEY DIDN'T, THERE WERE NO CONTEMPT CHARGES IN THAT CASE.

BUT THAT WAS QUITE A LONG TIME AGO.

IT'S A WHOLE NEW COURT NOW.

AND IN THE DEROLF CASE, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A MATTER OF HOLDING DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS OF LAWMAKERS IN CONTEMPT.

AND THERE WAS A LOT LESS IMMEDIACY TO THAT CASE.

HERE YOU HAVE A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON A REDISTRICTING COMMISSION THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS, AND THIS IS -- THERE IS A MAJOR DEADLINE COMING UP, WHICH IS THE PRIMARY AND THE FILING FOR THE PRIMARY, IT'S ALL COMING TO A HEAD SHORTLY.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT THIS LEGISLATIVE MAPS WAS CONSIDERED KIND OF LIKE THE EASIER LIFT OF THE TWO BECAUSE THEY STILL HAVE TO DO THE CONGRESSIONAL MAPS.

AND THAT HAS NATIONAL IMPLICATIONS IF OHIO SENDS FEWER REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS TO CONGRESS, THEN THEY TAKE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE -- U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IS IN THE BALANCE.

SO IT JUST REALLY DOESN'T BODE WELL FOR WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIPE.

>> THIS WILL BE REALLY THE PRECURSOR TO WHAT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE FIGHT WITH THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP.

GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE AND FRANK LaROSE, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, THEY SEEM TO SAY, LOOK, LET'S GET THIS DONE.

THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN IT DONE, THEY COULD HAVE WORKED WITH THE TWO DEMOCRATS AND GOTTEN FOUR VOTES AND PASSED THIS, PASSED A COMPROMISED BILL, A MAP.

>> LOOK, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY, LIKE I SAID, IT'S POLITICS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL.

AND I THINK THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A COUPLE OF MEMBERS WHO WANTED TO TRY TO GET IT DONE, YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH IS WE'RE JUST IN THIS WEIRD PLACE IN TIME WHERE EVEN THE MOST POLITICAL PROCESS HAS BEEN MORE POLITICIZED.

SO, I THINK LAURA'S RIGHT, WE'RE IN COMPLETELY UNCHARTED TERRITORY NOW, AND THERE IS SOME REALLY -- THERE'S A LOT OF RISK OUT THERE FOR NOT HAVING DONE THAT.

>> SAM, WHAT DO A VOTER RIGHTS GROUP LIKE YOURS, COMMON CAUSE, THERE IS A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS THAT HAVE FILED SUIT IN FEDERAL COURT CLAIMING THAT THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO ONE OF THE MAPS THAT WAS REJECTED, BASICALLY JUST DO AN END RUN AROUND THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT YOU COULD ARGUE IN COURT THAT VOTERS ARE NOT GETTING THEIR SAY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE MAPS COME THE PRIMARY'S COMING UP.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

THEY NEVER FOLLOWED THE PROCEDURE.

THEY IGNORED EVERYTHING CONSISTENTLY.

I THINK IT IS AN OBVIOUS PRESENTATION THAT THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW.

THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTION.

AND THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE.

THE PEOPLE OF OHIO ON TWO OCCASIONS VOTED AND SUPPORTED THE PROCESS BY 70% PLUS.

I THINK THE WHOLE LEGISLATION, THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND LEADERS NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO THOSE PEOPLE AND QUICKLY DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

NOW, THAT SOUNDS LIKE POLLYANNA, BUT SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE TO CRUSH SOME NUTS SOMEWHERE, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PUT IN PLACE SOMEWHERE, BECAUSE IF WE DON'T, WE WILL NEVER GET ANYTHING.

AND LIKE DEROLF, I DON'T THINK THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE LIKE THAT.

WE CAN'T WALK AWAY FROM THIS ONE BECAUSE YOU HAVE DISTRICTS AND YOU HAVE ELECTIONS, THE STATE LEGISLATURE, IT AFFECTS CONGRESS.

I THINK IT'S SO JUVENILE.

>> REALLY QUICKLY, WHAT IS THE NEXT THING WE SHOULD WATCH FOR, SAY, COME NEXT WEEK?

THERE WILL BE SOME KIND OF DEVELOPMENT.

WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING FOR?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE OHIO SUPREME COURT'S GOING TO MAKE A SAY ON THEIR REFUSAL TO ABIDE BY THE ORDER.

AND WHAT I DO THINK IS INTERESTING IS THAT, KEEP IN MIND, MATT HUFFMAN, KEITH, MIKE DeWINE ARE ALL OFFICERS OF THE COURT, THEY ARE LICENSED ATTORNEYS.

AND BOP KUPP IS A FORMER OHIO SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.

SO, IF THEY CONTINUE TO REFUSE TO FOLLOW THE ORDER, THAT'S REALLY PRETTY ASTONISHING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

TURNING TO MORE BASIC POLITICS.

THERE WAS A BIG ENDORSEMENT IN THE GOP RACE FOR U.S. SENATE.

NO, NOT THAT ENDORSEMENT.

SENATOR ROB PORTMAN SAID THE CHOICE TO SUCCEED HIM.

HE UNDERSTANDS THE NEEDS OF OHIOANS AND IS THE BEST CANDIDATE TO ADVANCE GOP POLICIES.

THE ENDORSEMENT COMES AS TIMKIN STRUGGLES TO STAY NEAR THE TOP IN THE POLLS.

SHOWS JOSH MANDEL LEADING WITH 21%.

BUSINESSMAN MIKE GIBBENS IS NEXT.

A QUARTER OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS REMAIN UNDECIDED.

SHANNON JONES, NORMALLY IF THE SITTING SENATOR ENDORSES HIS OR HER SUCCESSOR, THAT'S A HUGE DEAL.

BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE'RE ALL WAITING FOR DONALD TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT, RIGHT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THIS IS, YOU KNOW, FAVORABLE TO JANE TIMKEN.

WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE PERSON WHO'S REALLY GAINING GROUND IS MATT DOLAN.

AND MATT DOLAN IS KIND OF IN THE SAME VEIN AS ROB PORTMAN.

ROB PORTMAN IS A GOVERNING SENATOR.

HE'S SOMEBODY WHO'S ALWAYS TAKEN HIS ROLE AS GOVERNING SERIOUSLY AND HAS DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB FOR OHIO.

MATT DOLAN ACTUALLY HAS A RECORD OF VOTING FOR THINGS LIKE TAX CUTS AND REDUCING REGULATION THAT PORTMAN HAS ALSO DONE.

AND NONE OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES CAN REALLY SAY THAT.

AND, SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, DOLAN IS REALLY CATCHING A WAVE, AND I'M NOT SURE PORTMAN'S ENDORSEMENT HERE AS, YOU KNOW, COMING FROM THE GOVERNING WING OF THE PARTY AND NOT NECESSARILY THE TRUMP WING OF THE PARTY IS REALLY GOING TO BE A FACTOR.

>> MATT DOLAN BRUSHED OFF THE ENDORSEMENT SAYING THAT ROB PORTMAN DID THAT BECAUSE HE'S FRIENDS WITH JANE TIMKEN.

THEY GO WAY BACK FROM THEIR DAYS IN CINCINNATI.

LAURA, IT'S UNUSUAL FOR SITTING SENATOR TO ENDORSE IN A CONTESTED PRIMARY TO REPLACE HIM.

>> I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THE LAST TIME WE HAD A CONTESTED PRIMARY FOR AN OPEN SEAT LIKE THIS.

I THINK SHANNON'S RIGHT.

DOLAN SEEMS TO BE THE MOST ALIGNED WITH PORTMAN'S STYLE AND APPROACH TO THINGS.

BUT JANE TIMKEN HAS GOT THE LONG TIES WITH ROB PORTMAN.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT SWAYED SENATOR PORTMAN.

ALSO I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS MAYBE HELPING HER CLIMB UP IN THE POLLS.

HER CAMPAIGN TOLD HALEY B. MILLER, MY COLLEAGUE THIS WEEK, THAT THEY EXPECT LIKE ABOUT AN $800,000 BUMP IN CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM SUPPORTERS WHO WERE KIND OF WAITING TO SEE WHAT PORTMAN WAS GOING TO DO.

SO THAT IS NOT TO BE IGNORED.

>> YEAH, HELP WITH THE FUNDRAISING.

TURNING TO THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIALLY ENDORSED TIM RYAN IN THE RACE FOR U.S. SENATE, IGNORING MORGAN HART'S ARGUMENT THAT THEY SHOULD STAY NEUTRAL.

DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD'VE STAYED NEUTRAL IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE, THE PARTY LEADERS?

>> I WISH IT WOULD'VE MADE A DIFFERENCE, BUT IT DIDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE, I'M SORRY.

I THINK MORGAN MADE A VALIANT EFFORT.

BUT TRYING TO BUILD A STATEWIDE POLITICAL ORGANIZATION, WHAT THAT REALLY MEANS IS YOU HAVE NO STATEWIDE RELATIONSHIPS.

SO TRYING TO BUILD THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME WAS A TREMENDOUS DISADVANTAGE.

AND, ADDITIONALLY, LACK OF NAME I.D.

ACROSS THE STATE SAID THAT FUNDRAISING WAS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

SO, I THINK IT'S A LOGICAL THING FOR THEM TO DO AND GET ON BECAUSE THE GENERALS ARE GOING TO BE MUCH -- I MEAN, IF THE PEOPLE I THINK ARE GOING TO WIN THIS THING, WIN THIS THING.

>> OHIO SECRETARY FRANK LaROSE WHO IN 2020 SAID THAT THAT YEAR'S ELECTION WAS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN OHIO'S HISTORY.

FRANK LaROSE HAS SAID ALLEGATIONS OF VOTER FRAUD ARE OVERBLOWN.

NOW HE BACKS FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CLAIM THAT VOTER FRAUD IS A, QUOTE, SERIOUS PROBLEM.

THE SAME DAY LaROSE FOUND ABOUT TWO DOZEN POSSIBLY ILLEGAL OHIO VOTES OUT OF 5.8 MILLION CAST, HE SUGGESTED ON TWITTER THERE MIGHT BE MANY MORE, AND HE SAID TRUMP IS RIGHT TO SAY THAT VOTER FRAUD IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY IN OTHER STATES.

IT'S WORTH NOTING LaROSE IS A PRIMARY OPPONENT FORMER REP SAYS HE HAS LEGITIMACY OF THE 2020 ELECTION.

FRANK LaROSE HAS BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT UP UNTIL NOW SAYING THAT VOTER FRAUD IS NOT REALLY A PROBLEM IN OHIO.

WHY THE SLIGHT CHANGE IN TONE HERE?

>> WELL, LOOK.

I MEAN, THERE'S AN ELECTION, AND THE PRIMARY.

I'M NOT TERRIBLY SURPRISED THAT EVERYONE'S TRYING TO HEDGE THEIR BETS.

AND I THINK THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

I MEAN, WE KNOW I THINK FRANK LaROSE IS RIGHT THAT THERE ISN'T MUCH VOTER FRAUD, AND IT'S VERY, VERY RARE.

IT CERTAINLY DOES HAPPEN.

AND WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN, IT'S INVESTIGATED, AND, YOU KNOW, THE HIGHEST ELECTION OFFICIAL IN THE STATE SHOULD DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO BUILD CONFIDENCE IN THE SYSTEM.

SO, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY BIG MYSTERY HERE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S ABOUT THE VOTES.

I THINK IT'S ABOUT THE MOMENT IN TIME THAT WE'RE IN, IN THE ELECTION CYCLE.

>> LAURA, DOES THIS GIVE HIM ENOUGH COVER IN A PRIMARY?

I MEAN, FRANK LaROSE IS AN ESTABLISHED SECRETARY OF STATE.

HE'S DONE A GOOD JOB, NO SCANDAL AT ALL.

HE SEEMS LIKE HE WOULD BE A FAVORITE FOR RE-ELECTION.

WHY GET INTO THIS RIGHT NOW?

DOES IT GIVE HIM ENOUGH -- >> I THINK THAT THE POLLS SHOW 70% OF REGISTERED REPUBLICANS BELIEVE THAT THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM DONALD TRUMP.

AND I THINK THAT THIS VOTER FRAUD, I THINK FRANK LaROSE FACING A PRIMARY CHALLENGE, THERE'S TWO WAYS TO RUN, UNOPPOSED OR SCARED.

SO I THINK THAT HE'S THINKING, LIKE, OH, I GOT TO KIND OF COVER MY BASES HERE.

AGAIN, VOTER FRAUD IS VERY RARE.

THEY HAD LIKE 42 BALLOTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN ILLEGALLY CAST IN THE 2020 ELECTION.

I THINK THEY WINNOWED THAT DOWN TO 27 REFERRALS FOR POSSIBLE INVESTIGATION.

THAT IS, LIKE, 0.0007% OF 5.8 MILLION BALLOTS CAST.

SO -- >> EVERY CASE OF FRAUD SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED.

BUT DOES THIS UNDERMINE, IN YOUR MIND, THE CONFIDENCE IN AN ELECTION.

OR IS THIS PURELY A POLITICAL MOVE TO SATISFY FOLKS WHO THINK THERE WAS FRAUD EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THERE WAS WIDESPREAD FRAUD?

>> I'M GOING TO START WITH SOMETHING THAT SHANNON HAD SAID CONSISTENTLY IN THIS PROGRAM.

IT'S ABOUT POLITICS, AND IT'S ABOUT YOUR DEFINITION OF WHATEVER POLITICS MEANS.

NOW, AS IT COMES TO THOSE ELECTIONS, POLITICS HAS BECOME A NEGATIVE CONNOTATION BECAUSE IT MEANS I CHEAT, I STEAL.

POLITICS IS TWO COMPETITIVE GROUPS WITH DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHIES RUNNING AGAINST EACH OTHER.

I DON'T THINK THE PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZE THE FRANCHISE UNDERSTAND THE DAMAGE THAT THEY ARE DOING TO DEMOCRACY AND THE PERCEPTION OF DEMOCRACY.

NOT ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

POLITICS IS POLITICS.

THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T SAY AND YOU SHOULDN'T DO.

I THINK THAT'S THE DANGER OF POLITICS AS THEY EXIST RIGHT NOW IN THIS COUNTRY.

I MEAN, THE POLITICS OF THE PAST HAS NEVER BEEN AS BAD AS PEOPLE DESCRIBE.

>> ALL RIGHT, THE NEWS ABOUT COVID CONTINUES TO IMPROVE IN OHIO.

CASES AND HOSPITALIZATIONS CONTINUE THEIR SHARP DECLINES.

THE CDC SAYS TRANSMISSION REMAINS HIGH IN MOST OF THE STATES, BUT THAT NUMBER OF COUNTIES THAT HAVE JUST, QUOTE, SUBSTANTIAL RATES OF TRANSMISSION, THOSE ARE THE ORANGE COUNTIES, IS GROWING.

IT'S UP TO 12 STATEWIDE.

FRANKLIN COUNTY REMAINS A RED COUNTY WITH A HIGH RATE OF TRANSMISSION.

LOCAL CITY OFFICIALS SAY IF WE GET TO YELLOW, A MODERATE RATE OF TRANSMISSION, THEY WILL LIFT THE MASK MANDATES.

MANY LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE NOT WAITING.

MANY OF THOSE THAT HAD MASK MANDATES ARE LIFTING THEM FOR ALL OF THEIR STUDENTS.

SAM, YOU'VE BEEN AMONG THE MORE CAUTIOUS PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC AND ADVOCATING FOR MASK MANDATES AND VACCINE MANDATES.

ARE YOU NOW A LITTLE MORE OPTIMISTIC?

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT LIFTING THE MASK MANDATES NOW IS A WISE THING TO DO?

>> WE DID NOT HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS PANDEMIC UNTIL '24 OR '25.

I DO BELIEVE IT'S PREMATURE TO DO THIS AT THIS POINT.

THIS IS POLITICS AND PEOPLE ARE DOING THINGS FOR THE PURPOSE OF HELPING THE MIDTERMS WHEN IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY.

YOU SHOULD BE PLANNING FOR THE WORST AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.

I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER VERSION OR TWO OF THIS VIRUS BEFORE IT'S ALL OVER.

AND MY KIDS AND ME AND MY FAMILY ARE KEEPING OUR MASKS ON AND STAYING 6 FOOT FROM EVERYBODY UNTIL WE FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS THING IS.

>> I HAD A MOM OF SCHOOL-AGED KIDS TELL ME TODAY WHY DON'T SCHOOL OFFICIALS JUST WAIT UNTIL SPRING BREAK WHEN THE WEATHER'S WARMER, WHEN THE CASES ARE DOWN A LITTLE BIT?

WERE SCHOOL OFFICIALS UNDER THAT MUCH PRESSURE TO LIFT THESE MASK MANDATES THE MOMENT THEY COULD?

>> OH, THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE.

I MEAN, WE'RE SEEING INCREASED ENGAGEMENT BY PARENTS AT SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS ALL ACROSS THE STATE AND NATIONALLY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS -- THERE'S FATIGUE EVERYWHERE.

EVERYBODY IS TIRED OF THIS KIND OF NEW, NOT SO NEW ANY LONGER PRECAUTIONS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN.

I DO THINK THAT THERE IS SOMETHING TO THE FACT THAT TO HAVE THE MANDATES AND PEOPLE NOT FOLLOW THE MANDATES DOESN'T REALLY GET US TO WHERE WE NEED TO GO EITHER.

I DO THINK THAT THINGS HAVE GONE ON LONG ENOUGH AND WE'VE BEEN RIDING THESE WAVES, IF YOU WILL, OF INCREASED SPREAD THAT PEOPLE DO KNOW WHAT TO DO.

SO, IT'S NOT SURPRISING TO ME, THE CASES ARE COMING DOWN, THE HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE COMING DOWN, THAT PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE RELIEF FROM THE MANDATES.

AND I THINK THAT -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT SOME GOOD PRACTICE BECAUSE WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO BRING SOME OF THOSE PRECAUTIONS BACK AGAIN, IF HISTORY IS ANY INDICATOR.

>> OUR LAST TOPIC, IT SEEMS LIKE A LONG TIME AGO, BUT IT'S ONLY BEEN ABOUT TWO YEARS SINCE RACIAL JUSTICE PROTESTERS CLASHED WITH POLICE IN DOWNTOWN COLUMBUS AND BROKE STORE WINDOWS AND VANDALIZED THE STATEHOUSE.

A NEW BILL AT THE STATEHOUSE AIMS TO CRACK DOWN ON VIOLENT PROTESTERS.

THE BILL PASSED BY THE HOUSE WOULD MAKE VIOLENT PROTESTING A FELONY, AND IT WOULD ALLOW ORGANIZERS OF A PROTEST THAT TURNS VIOLENT BE SUBJECT TO RACKETEERING CHARGES.

SUPPORTERS SAY IT'S A WAY TO BALANCE FREE SPEECH AND PUBLIC SAFETY.

CRITICS SAY IT'S DESIGNED TO STIFLE LEGITIMATE POLITICAL DISCOURSE, TO COIN A PHRASE.

LAURA, WE HAVE RULES ON THE BOOKS.

YOU CAN'T BREAK WINDOWS AT A RIOT.

WHY DO STATE LAWMAKERS SAY WE NEED TOUGHER LAWS FOR THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU JUST SAID, LIKE, THEY FEEL LIKE THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE TOOLS IN THE TOOLBOX.

THIS BILL WOULD CREATE NEW FELONIES LIKE RIOT ASSAULT.

AND OF COURSE ASSAULT WAS ALREADY PROHIBITED, AND RIOTS AND VANDALISM.

OF COURSE VANDALISM IS ALREADY PROHIBITED.

AND IT WOULD REALLY EXPAND THOSE CORRUPT ACTIVITY LAWS TO INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO KNOWINGLY HELPED PLAN A RIOT, WHICH MAYBE YOU WEREN'T PLANNING A RIOT, MAYBE YOU WERE JUST PLANNING A PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY WHICH TURNED INTO OUT OF YOUR CONTROL GOT VIOLENT OR SOMEBODY THREW BRICKS, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

THIS IS JUST -- I THINK IT PASSED ALONG PARTY LINE VOTES, SO I THINK IT'S AN ISSUE WHERE REPUBLICANS VIEW IT ONE WAY AND DEMOCRATS VIEW IT ANOTHER WAY.

>> SAM, DO YOU REALLY THINK DIFFERENT PENALTIES ON TOP OF THE ONES WE ALREADY HAVE ARE REALLY GOING TO STIFLE A PASSIONATE CROWD, PASSIONATE ABOUT AN ISSUE, THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP THEM FROM PROTESTING?

>> NO.

AND THIS IS GOBBLEDYGOOK, AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT'S ABOUT.

THE OATH KEEPERS AND THE PROUD BOYS GET A PASS.

BLACK PEOPLE GET KILLED AND PUT IN JAIL.

IT'S NOT REALLY A DOG WHISTLE, IT'S A SCREAM AT BLACK PEOPLE.

IF YOU GO OUT HERE AND DEMONSTRATE WE'RE GOING TO FIND A WAY TO PUT YOU IN JAIL BY CONCOCTING SOME OF THESE THINGS.

I QUESTION WHETHER THESE THINGS THAT THEY'RE COMING UP WITH ARE CONSTITUTIONAL.

AND I ASSURE YOU IF SOMETHING HAPPENS LIKE THAT, IT'S GOING TO BE TESTED TO SEE IF IT'S BAD.

NOW, STOP SAYING THEY HELP EACH OTHER.

WE NEED TO STOP CODDLING WHITE SUPREMACISTS.

WE NEED TO PUT THEM IN JAIL.

>> REALLY QUICKLY, DO YOU SEE THIS TO HOLD CONSERVATIVE LIKE THE JANUARY 6th RIOTERS TO ACCOUNT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF LAWS OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES IN THIS BILL.

EVERYBODY CAN EMPATHIZE WITH THE NEED TO BOTH PEACEFULLY PROTEST AND THE CRACKDOWN ON PEOPLE WHO RIOT.

SO, WE'RE UNIFIED BEHIND THOSE COMMON PURPOSES.

AND SO IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR LEGISLATORS TO INTRODUCE LEGISLATION TO TRY TO DEAL WITH IT.

BUT OFTEN TIMES WE FIND OURSELVES DEALING WITH UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THAT LEGISLATION.

AND WITH THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, THERE ARE MORE STEPS IN THE PROCESS BEFORE IT BECOMES LAW.

SO I THINK THERE IS A CHANCE TO KIND OF FERRET OUT THOSE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND DEAL WITH THEM.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

>> NOT SO MUCH OFF THE RECORD, BUT WE COME OFF AS A CINCINNATI BENGAL FAN, A HUGE WEEKEND AT THE SUPER BOWL.

MY PREDICTION IS THAT THE CINCINNATI BENGALS DID US PROUD ONCE, THEY'LL DO US PROUD AGAIN, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A GREAT SEASON, AND WE'LL BE BACK.

>> ALL RIGHT, SAM, YOU'RE UP NEXT.

>> THIS IS A DANGEROUS PERIOD IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE POLARIZATION HAS NOW BECOME INTIMIDATION AND THREATS.

I THINK THE GOVERNMENT AT ALL LEVELS IMMEDIATE TO TIGHTEN IT UP BEFORE THEY LOSE CONTROL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LAURA, YOUR FINAL THOUGHT.

>> YEAH.

I JUST WANT TO GIVE A SHOUTOUT TO ANTHONY SHOEMAKER WHO JOINS US ON MONDAY AS THE BUREAU CHIEF.

ANTHONY IS LONGTIME DAILY NEWS MANAGER, AND HE LOVES OHIO POLITICS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WELCOME TO COLUMBUS FROM DAYTON.

MY FINAL THOUGHT IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS, THE IRISH FESTIVAL, RED, WHITE, AND, AND NOW THE OHIO STATE FAIR ALL ANNOUNCED FULL BOAR THIS SUMMER.

LET'S HOPE THEY ALL HAPPEN SO WE CAN START TO GET BACK TO NORMAL.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

♪♪ ♪♪