AS THE MOB RACED FOR THE CAPITOL OHIO REPUBLICANS RACED FOR COVER.

POLITICAL COVER.

>>> AS THE MOB RACED FOR THE CAPITOL, OHIO REPUBLICANS RACED FOR COVER.

POLITICAL COVER.

CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY >>> JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, SHANNON JONES, FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR.

JACKIE BORCHARDT, OHIO BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE "USA TODAY" NETWORK.

AND MORGAN HARPER, PROGRESSIVE ACTIVIST.

FOR TWO MONTHS NOW REPUBLICAN LEADERS HAVE STRUGGLED TO SAY PRESIDENT TRUMP LOST THE ELECTION.

SOME LIKE MIKE DEWINE MADE THE LOW-KEY ADMISSION FAIRLY SOON.

IT TOOK OTHERS LIKE SENATOR ROB PORTMAN A MONTH TO CALL BIDEN THE PRESIDENT-ELECT.

DESPITE JOE BIDEN'S WIDE MARGIN OF VICTORY AND A CLEAR LACK OF EVIDENCE OF FRAUD, OHIO'S ELECTED LEADERS SAID PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PLEAD HIS CASE.

THEN THIS HAPPENED.

AT THE URGING OF PRESIDENT TRUMP, HUNDREDS OF HIS MOST STRIDENT SUPPORTERS STORMED THE U.S. CAPITOL, TOOK CONTROL OF THE SENATE CHAMBERS, RANSACKED OFFICES AND STOLE ITEMS.

A CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER WAS KILLED.

A PROTESTER WAS FATALLY SHOT.

THREE OTHERS DIED OF MEDICAL ISSUES.

IT WAS FRIGHTENINGLY UGLY.

ALMOST IMMEDIATELY THE GOP TONE CHANGED.

>> TRUMP'S CONTINUED REFUSAL TO ACCEPT THE ELECTION RESULTS WITHOUT PRODUCING CREDIBLE EVIDENCE OF A RIGGED ELECTION HAS STARTED A FIRE THAT HAS THREATENED TO BURN DOWN OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> BUT IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT AFTER TWO MONTHS OF RECOUNTS AND LEGAL CHALLENGES NOT A SINGLE STATE RECOUNT CHANGED THE RESULT.

AND OF THE DOZENS OF LAWSUITS FILED NOT ONE FOUND EVIDENCE OF FRAUD OR IRREGULARITIES WIDESPREAD ENOUGH TO CHANGE THE RESULT OF THE ELECTION.

>> SHANNON JONES, THOSE EVEN MODESTLY CRITICAL WORDS COULD HAVE BEEN SAID WEEKS AGO, MONTHS AGO, EVEN YEARS AGO IN SOME CASES.

WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG FOR IN THIS CASE ROB PORTMAN AND MIKE DEWINE, OTHER REPUBLICAN LEADERS TO SAY THIS WAS WRONG AND TRUMP WAS WRONG HERE?

>> LOOK, I MEAN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

I DON'T KNOW WHY OTHER THAN THERE ARE HUGE CONSEQUENCES FOR REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, CARRY THE TRUMP LINE.

BUT I THINK THAT THE REMARKS THAT BOTH OF THOSE ELECTED OFFICIALS MADE WERE INCREDIBLY STRONG IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO REALLY FOCUS ON REPAIRING WHAT IS DIVIDING THIS COUNTRY.

>> JACKIE BORCHARDT, YOU'VE COVERED MIKE DEWINE'S BRIEFINGS THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE COVID THING, AND HE'S OFTEN ASKED ABOUT THE LATEST THING THAT DONALD TRUMP SAID AND HE VERY ABLY SIDESTEPS IT, SAYS LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN IT.

BUT THIS TIME HE REALLY COULDN'T.

>> YEAH, THIS WAS BY FAR I THINK THE MOST DIRECT REBUKE THAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THE GOVERNOR TO THE PRESIDENT.

AND YOU KNOW, ALL THROUGHOUT THE FALL REPORTERS HAVE BEEN ASKING HIM BOTH AT THOSE BRIEFINGS AND ALSO IN OTHER MEDIA AVAILABILITIES ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S COMMENTS, ABOUT THE ELECTION, HOW IT'S GOING, AND YOU KNOW, AS RECENTLY AS SUNDAY HE WAS ASKED ON CNN LAST WEEK ABOUT TRUMP'S KIND OF FINAL CRUSADE HERE.

IT WAS RIGHT BEFORE I THINK THE OBJECTION FROM THE CONGRESSMAN WERE KNOWN -- >> JACKIE, WE HAVE THAT CLIP.

AS JACKIE SAID.

ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL SUNDAY GOVERNOR DEWINE WAS RELUCTANT TO DENOUNCE THE FALSE CLAIMS THAT FRAUD STOLE THE ELECTION.

ON CNN HE TRIED TO FIND MIDDLE GROUND BY SUPPORTING THAT BIPARTISAN STUDY OF ELECTION SECURITY.

PLEASE COMPARE THAT APPEARANCE TO HIS BRIEFING THE DAY AFTER THE RIOT AT THE CAPITOL.

HERE ARE THE CLIPS.

>> WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT -- >> BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO, GOVERNOR.

GOVERNOR, BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO BY PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR WEEKS.

>> JAKE.

TIME OUT A MINUTE.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US TO SPEAK OUT AND SAY LOOK, THIS IS THE END RESULT.

JOE BIDEN WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

THIS WAS NOT A STOLEN ELECTION.

THE PRESIDENT AND HIS SUPPORTERS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO INTO COURT.

THEY WENT INTO COURT.

THEY WENT INTO COURT IN FRONT OF CONSERVATIVE JUDGES.

THEY EVEN WENT INTO COURT IN FRONT OF JUDGES APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP.

AND STILL THIS WAS THE RESULT.

>> BACK TO YOU, JACKIE.

NO FACTS CHANGED BETWEEN SUNDAY AND THURSDAY, BUT THOSE STATEMENTS WERE VERY DIFFERENT.

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, I THINK HE DID IN BETWEEN SUNDAY AND THURSDAY, DID ISSUE A STATEMENT ON THIS IDEA THAT THEY WERE GOING TO OBJECT AND IT MIGHT GO -- IT MIGHT GO FURTHER.

AND WE DID SEE A LITTLE BIT TOO MOVEMENT FROM ROB PORTMAN BUT NOT NEARLY WHAT WE SAW AFTER WEDNESDAY'S INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL.

>> MORGAN HARPER, I BRING YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION HERE.

DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING OKAY, WE TOLD YOU SO.

I'M NOT SURE THEY PREDICTED WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CAPITOL.

BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE WAS COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY SHOCKED AT WHAT HAPPENED.

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT A SHOCK, MIKE.

YEAH.

THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN BROADCASTING THAT THIS WAS HIS INTENT, THAT HE WAS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TAKE THIS TYPE OF ACTION TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTION AND THAT THERE WERE NO LIMITS TO WHAT THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO DO.

THE ONLY THING THAT'S CHANGED -- I AGREE, THE FACTS HAVEN'T.

BUT THE POLITICAL WINDS HAVE.

AND WE NEED TO BE REAL ABOUT THE FACT THAT MIKE DEWINE HAS ENABLED THIS PRESIDENT THE ENTIRE TIME.

HE WAS THE CO-CHAIR OF HIS RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

THE CLIP YOU THAT PLAYED SHOWED HE WAS STILL WILLING TO FEED INTO THESE FANTASIES OF?

KIND OF ELECTION FRAUD AS RECENTLY AS EARLIER THIS WEEK.

AND THE GOP IN OUR STATE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAS A REAL QUESTION TO ASK ITSELF.

YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE LEADERS THAT HAVE CHOSEN POWER AND GREED OVER THIS COUNTRY AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK, IS A REAL CULMINATION OF THAT.

AND WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR THEM?

>> DESPITE THE VIOLENCE AND LACK OF EVIDENCE OF FRAUD AND SHENANIGANS IN THE ELECTION, FIVE OHIO CONGRESSMEN STILL VOTED TO BLOCK PART OF THE COUNT.

THEY OBJECTED TO CERTIFYING SOME ELECTORAL VOTES.

THEY ARE STEVE CHABOT, WARREN DAVIDSON, BOB GIBBS, BILL JOHNSON, AND JIM JORDAN.

GIBBS AND JORDAN REPRESENT PARTS OF CENTRAL OHIO.

SHANNON JONES, WHAT'S THE CALCULUS THERE?

AFTER ALL OF WHAT HAPPENED WE KIND OF THOUGHT CONGRESS WOULD JUST SAY OKAY, WE'VE MADE OUR POINT, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON.

BUT THEY STILL WENT TILL 3:00 IN THE MORNING DEBATING THESE OBJECTIONS.

WILL THERE BE ANY LASTING HARM DONE TO THE SCORES OF CONGRESSPEOPLE WHO DID VOTE TO BASICALLY OVERTURN AT LEAST PART OF THE ELECTION?

>> WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS.

I THINK SOME OF THEM WILL EXPERIENCE SOME BACKLASH AND OTHERS MAY NOT, DEPENDING ON THE DISTRICTS THAT THEY REPRESENT.

BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE PARTY ITSELF IS GOING TO EXPERIENCE A HUGE BACKLASH AND THERE IS A MAJOR FISSURE NOW THAT WE'RE SEEING IN REAL TIME BEFORE OUR EYES WITH THIS SORT OF STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK, IF YOU WILL, WITHIN THE RANK AND FILE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

SO WHILE IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHAT THE INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS THEMSELVES WERE THINKING OR WHAT KIND OF CONSEQUENCE THEY'LL EXPERIENCE IF ANY AT ALL, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GOING TO WEAR THIS AND WEAR IT PRETTY HEAVY.

>> JACKIE BORCHARDT, YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN THE PICTURES ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

DEMOCRATS TWEETING OUT LOTS OF PICTURES OF MIKE DEWINE SMILING WITH DONALD TRUMP.

ROB PORTMAN WITH DONALD TRUMP.

JIM JORDAN WITH DONALD TRUMP.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO USE THIS CERTAINLY OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS WITH ROB PORTMAN AND MIKE DEWINE.

JIM RENASY, HE LAUNCHED A CAMPAIGN FOR CHANGE THIS WEEK.

WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT KIND OF CHANGE THAT WAS.

LOOSE CHANGE, SPARE CHANGE, CHANGE OF CLOTHES, CHANGE OF SHEETS, WHATEVER.

BUT IT WAS A CAMPAIGN FOR CHANGE.

HOW REAL IS A PRIMARY THREAT TO MIKE DEWINE OR TO ROB PORTMAN?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION THAT I THINK PEOPLE AROUND CAP SQUARE ARE STARTING TO THINK ABOUT IN RECENT WEEKS.

IN RECENT WEEKS THE GOVERNOR HAS SIGNED SOME LEGISLATION TO RE-ESTABLISH HIMSELF REALLY FIRMLY IN THAT CONSERVATIVE WING OF HIS PARTY.

HE SIGNED THE STAND YOUR GROUND BILL WHICH I THINK WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT LATER IN THE SHOW.

AND ALSO SIGNED SOME ANTI-ABORTION LEGISLATION THAT'S BEEN KICKING AROUND THE STATE HOUSE FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

SO I THINK HE'S ANTICIPATING HE WILL RECEIVE A PRIMARY CHALLENGE.

I THINK ANYONE WHO CHALLENGES HIM FACES A HUGE UPHILL CLIMB.

WE SAW IN THE LAST PRIMARY WE HAD SEVERAL WELL-KNOWN STATEWIDE CANDIDATES, WELL-FUNDED EVEN, AND THEY JUST COULD NOT EVEN MATCH UP TO THE DEWINE BRAND, THE DEWINE CAMPAIGN.

YOU'VE GOT GREAT FINANCIAL RESOURCES IN FUND-RAISING AND ALSO A BIG NETWORK ACROSS THE STATE OF SUPPORT.

>> AMONG INDEPENDENTS AND EVEN DEMOCRATS AND MODERATE REPUBLICANS HE REMAINS RE POPULAR FOR THE WHOLE WAY HE'S HANDLED COVID.

TURNING TO THE DEMOCRATS NOW, THEY'RE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS IN THAT THEY HAVE BEEN PREDICTING TROUBLE ALL ALONG, BUT NOW AS WE RECORD THIS ON LATE FRIDAY THERE ARE 12 DAYS LEFT IN THE PRESIDENT'S TERM BUT THEY ARE ACTIVELY CALLING FOR THE USE OF THE 25th AMENDMENT TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE AND/OR ASKING HIM TO RESIGN OR FACE IMPEACHMENT.

ARE DEMOCRATS PERHAPS OVERPLAYING THEIR HAND HERE?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

WELL, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FAITH THAT MIKE PENCE IS GOING TO DO MUCH WITH THE 25th AMENDMENT.

WE'RE SEEING THE CABINET OFFICIALS THAT ARE RESIGNING.

SOME COULD SAY TO AVOID HAVING TO EVEN GO THERE.

BUT I DO THINK IMPEACHMENT IS WORTH PURSUING BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE ARE LEFT AS A COUNTRY WITH THE PRECEDENT THAT AS A PRESIDENT YOU CAN TRY TO ENCOURAGE AN INSURRECTION, A CHALLENGING OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NONE OF US SHOULD BE COMFORTABLE JUST LETTING LIE.

AND THAT TRUMP GOES OFF INTO THE DISTANCE.

THAT NEEDS TO BE CALLED OUT AND THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> SHANNON JONES, THE FEAR IS IF IT HAPPENS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ANGRY ON WEDNESDAY ARE GOING TO GET EVEN ANGRIER.

COULD THERE BE EVEN MORE OF A BACKLASH IF THERE WAS -- IF A MOVE TO IMPEACH AND/OR REMOVE HIM BY THE 25th AMENDMENT, THE PRESIDENT, THAT IS, IS SUCCESSFUL?

>> WELL, I CERTAINLY DON'T DISAGREE WITH MORGAN AT ALL.

AND IN FACT, LET ME BE CLEAR, I THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD JUST RESIGN, PERIOD, END OF STORY.

IT'S A DISGRACE.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I JUST THINK THAT WE HAVE TO FIND A PATHWAY FORWARD.

AND WHILE IT IS TRUE THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES AROUND THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR AND ACTIVITY, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THAT, I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT DIFFERENCE IT MAKES IN THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, 11 OR 12 DAYS TO REALLY FURTHER DIVIDE THIS COUNTRY.

OUR CHALLENGE BEFORE US AS A NATION IS THAT THE ENEMY IS NOW WITHIN.

WE USED TO TALK ABOUT HOW -- AN ENEMY WAS EXTERNAL, FOREIGN ACTORS.

BUT NOW WHILE THOSE STILL EXIST WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THIS DIVISION THAT'S HURTING US.

>> WE'VE HAD SO MANY TIPPING POINTS OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS.

THIS IS THE THING THAT'S GOING TO FINALLY TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP.

JACKIE, FROM THE FOLKS YOU'VE TALKED TO, IS THIS NOW THE TIPPING POINT?

EVEN THOUGH THERE'S ONLY A WEEK AND A HALF LEFT OF THE PRESIDENT'S TERM.

>> I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY.

YOU SEE IT IN OHIO.

SEE IT NATIONALLY WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS, APPOINTED OFFICIALS.

THERE'S PEOPLE RESIGNING FROM HIS CABINET NOW.

THERE ARE I THINK JUST REGULAR PEOPLE THAT I INTERACT WITH NOW ADAYS ONLINE BECAUSE I'M AT HOME BUT JUST THIS SHOCK OF SEEING THIS HAPPEN AT OUR CAPITOL, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE -- AS REPORTERS WE'VE SEEN THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR AT RALLIES FOR YEARS.

VIOLENCE AND NASTINESS TOWARD THE PRESS AND TOWARD OTHERS.

AND YOU COULD KIND OF NOT WATCH IT AND YOU COULD COMPARTMENTALIZE IT.

BUT THIS WAS ON THE CENTER STAGE.

THE WHOLE WORLD WAS WATCHING THIS REALLY.

AND IT JUST -- I THINK EVERYONE WAS JUST STUNNED TO SEE THESE KINDS OF SCENES, TO SEE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG IN OUR STATE'S CAPITOL AND TO SEE THEM TAKING ALL THE REPORTERS' EQUIPMENT AND DESTROYING IT.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST -- AND FIGHTING AGAINST THE CAPITOL POLICE.

IT JUST WAS ASTONISHING AND IT WAS ALL LIVE AND YOU COULD GET IT ON ALL YOUR SCREENS.

I MEAN, IT WAS IN YOUR FACE.

YOU COULDN'T AVOID IT.

>> OF COURSE, MORGAN, MANY PEOPLE SAW RIGHT AWAY WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW THIS PROTEST WAS HANDLED AND HOW THE RACIAL JUSTICE PROTESTS WERE HANDLED IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND OTHER AREAS.

WASHINGTON, D.C.

IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

THE SAME LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THE SAME NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN THAT AREA.

>> YEAH.

THERE WAS A CLEAR DOUBLE STANDARD APPLIED AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE ARE RECOGNIZING IT.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE ARE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING THE LOSS OF LIFE FOR THOSE WHO ARE CHARGED WITH PROTECTING US, WHICH IS VERY, VERY TRAGIC, AS WE NOTED BEFORE.

BUT I DO WANT TO COME BACK TO ONE POINT, AND I DON'T THINK -- BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IMPEACHMENT HAS TO BE ABOUT DIVISION, SOMETHING SHANNON WAS SAYING.

I THINK IT ACTUALLY IS A MOMENT FOR US TO COME TOGETHER AS A COUNTRY AND DEFINE WHAT OUR DEMOCRACY MOVING FORWARD IS GOING TO BE ABOUT, TO FULL ON CONFRONT THE ENEMY THAT IS WITHIN, AND PART OF THAT ENEMY IS ROOTED IN WHITE SUPREMACY.

PART OF THAT ENEMY IS ROOTED IN PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO SACRIFICE OUR DEMOCRACY FOR THEIR OWN GAIN.

AND SO THIS IS A CHANCE FOR PEOPLE FROM BOTH PARTIES TO SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH A COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE ABOUT.

>> OKAY.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

FOR ONE, COVID IS STILL VERY MUCH WITH US.

CASES HERE IN OHIO ARE ON THE RISE AGAIN.

THE STATE REPORTED MORE THAN 10,000 NEW CASES ON THURSDAY.

9,500 NEW CASES ON FRIDAY.

THE STATE IS MOVING TO THE NEXT PHASE OF VACCINE DISTRIBUTION.

FOR THE PAST THREE WEEKS HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND NURSING HOME STAFF AND RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN GETTING THE SHOTS.

SOON OLDER OHIOANS AND SCHOOL WORKERS WILL BE ELIGIBLE.

GOVERNOR DEWINE SAYS OHIO WILL RECEIVE ABOUT 100,000 VACCINE DOSES A WEEK OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS.

CITY AND COUNTY OFFICIALS WILL RELEASE THE DETAILS ON WHERE AND WHEN PEOPLE CAN GET THE VACCINE.

JACKIE BORCHARDT, HERE IN OHIO VACCINE DISTRIBUTION AS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN SLUGGISH.

THERE HAVE BEEN ROLLOUT PROBLEMS.

DO STATE OFFICIALS THINK THEY HAVE MANY OF THOSE ISSUES SOLVED AS WE ENTER THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS DISTRIBUTION PROCESS?

>> I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO RESOLVE ISSUES BEFORE THEY COME UP.

THE BIGGEST ISSUE, THOUGH, IS NOT RESOLVED, AND THAT'S IN THE SUPPLY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE VACCINE.

WE'VE SEEN SO FAR AS OF FRIDAY MORE THAN 250,000 FIRST DOSES ADMINISTERED IN OHIO.

THAT PACE IS NOT A LOT, AND IT'S NOT EVEN WHAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

IT'S I THINK LAST I CHECKED IT WAS ABOUT HALF.

SO EVEN OUR LIMITED SUPPLY THAT WE'RE GETTING WE'RE NOT GETTING IT OUT FAST ENOUGH.

SO WHAT THE STATE IS WORKING ON IS MAKING SURE THAT WHEN WE GET IT WE ARE -- BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT OHIO CAN CONTROL.

THEY CAN'T CONTROL NECESSARILY HOW MUCH WE GET AT THIS POINT.

HOWEVER, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DID ANNOUNCE AT THE END OF THE WEEK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO RELEASE MORE DOSES THAT HAVE BEEN HELD FOR THAT SECOND SHOT JUST BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE IS -- YOU DO GET SOME PROTECTION FROM AN INITIAL SHOT.

INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, COMPLETING THE TWO-DOSE VACCINATION SCHEDULE THAT'S THREE OR FOUR WEEKS APART DEPENDING ON WHICH MANUFACTURER YOU HAVE.

BUT SO WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW IS THEY'RE TRYING TO REALLY GET PROVIDERS IN PLACE.

THEY'VE HAD MORE THAN 1,700 PROVIDERS SIGN UP WITH THE STATE TO ADMINISTER THIS.

AND THEY'RE TRYING TO DO A STAGED ROLLOUT FOR THIS NEXT PHASE BECAUSE IT'S MORE THAN 2 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE STATE.

AND WE DON'T HAVE NEARLY AS MANY VACCINES TO GET THAT GROUP DONE IN A MATTER OF WEEKS.

SO THEY'RE STARTING WITH THE OLDEST AND PHASING IN AT FIVE YEARS EVERY WEEK AND THEN LIKE YOU SAID SCHOOL EMPLOYEES FEBRUARY 1st.

THE GOVERNOR DID ADMIT THIS WEEK THE MATH DOESN'T WORK, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ALL SCHOOL EMPLOYEES INOCULATED WITH BOTH DOSES BEFORE GOING BACK TO SCHOOL MARCH 1st.

>> YEAH, THAT IS THE GOAL.

THE REASON WHY THE SCHOOL WORKERS ARE SORT OF IN THIS NEXT PHASE.

THEY CALL IT PHASE 1-B, RATHER THAN PHASE 2 FOR WHATEVER REASON.

SHANNON JONES, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, TO HAVE TEACHERS GO AHEAD OF, SAY, PHARMACISTS, GO AHEAD OF GROCERY STORE WORKERS, OTHER POLICE, MAYBE FIREFIGHTERS, IN AN EFFORT TO GET STUDENTS BACK TO CLASS?

IT'S BEEN OVER A YEAR NOW REALLY FOR MANY OF THEM.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT VALUE JUDGMENT THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS TO MAKE, AND HE'S BEEN REALLY CLEAR THAT HIS GOAL IS TO GET THE SCHOOLS BACK OPEN.

AND THERE'S LEGITIMATE REASON FOR THAT.

I MEAN, WE HAVE CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF SCHOOL AND IN MANY CASES THESE SCHOOLS HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THESE CHILDREN, WHERE THEY'RE NOW HAVING TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO THEY IDENTIFY AND LOCATE AND RECONNECT WITH THESE FAMILIES.

EVERYBODY DESERVES THE VACCINE.

WE ALL NEED TO HAVE IT.

BUT THE SUPPLY IS JUST TOO SHORT.

SO HE'S MAKING THE VALUE JUDGMENT AROUND GETTING KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL.

THINK WE JUST -- YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE A CHOICE.

AND THERE'S NO GOOD ONE.

>> MORGAN, HOW WOULD YOU ASSESS HOW THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTION IS GOING?

IT IS A HUGE -- WE'RE TRYING TO VACCINATE 300 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES.

YOU KNOW, 8 BILLION PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, GIVE OR TAKE.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY.

BUT WE'VE HAD TEN MONTHS TO GET READY FOR IT.

HOW WOULD YOU ASSESS THE VACCINATION'S DISTRIBUTION PROCESS SO FAR?

>> IT IS A HUGE UNDERTAKING.

BEFORE THE DISTRIBUTION POINT THAT VACCINE DEVELOPMENT, WHAT A MARVEL OF TECHNOLOGY AND RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AT A VERY ACCELERATED PACE.

AND GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION ACTUALLY IN THAT SPACE HAD A LOT TO DO WITH HOW WE GOT TO THE POINT OF HAVING THIS VACCINE SO EARLY.

BUT THE DISTRIBUTION ITSELF, I REALLY THINK IS AN EXAMPLE OF A LACK OF LEADERSHIP.

AND MIKE DEWINE HAS NOT HAD A PLAN.

AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A STATE VERY CLOSE BY, WEST VIRGINIA, THAT IS LEAPS AND BOUNDS AHEAD OF US IN TERMS OF THE DISTRIBUTION.

RIGHT?

THEY'VE ALREADY COMPLETED THEIR FIRST PHASE OF VACCINE DISTRIBUTION TO ALL OF THEIR HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEIR GOVERNOR WAS NOT WAITING FOR LEADERSHIP ON THE DISTRIBUTION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT WASN'T COMING.

HE WAS FIGURING OUT HOW TO PROTECT HIS PEOPLE.

AND WE HAVE ONLY DISTRIBUTED, AS JACKIE MENTIONED, ABOUT 200,000 OF THE FIRST PHASE OF 1 MILLION DOSES.

SO PART OF THAT, YES, THERE ARE SUPPLY ISSUES.

BUT A BIG PART OF IT IS THAT WE HAVE NOT HAD A PLAN AND PEOPLE CONTINUE IN THE DISTRIBUTION POINTS, PHARMACIES, LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, WAITING FOR DIRECTION FROM OUR STATE GOVERNMENT.

>> JACKIE BORCHARDT, HOW DOES THE GOVERNOR ANSWER THAT?

BASICALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE RANKING, VACCINE DISTRIBUTED PER CAPITA, OHIO'S LIKE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE STATES, MAYBE IN THE LOWER HALF A LITTLE BIT.

BUT HOW DOES THE GOVERNOR ANSWER THAT?

>> YEAH, IT'S FUNNY.

DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT, IF YOU DID PERCENT OF DOSES ALLOCATED, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE ACTUALLY IN THE TOP TEN.

WE HAVE BEEN JUST FOR THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS.

IT SHOWS I THINK EVERYBODY IS STRUGGLING.

MOST STATES ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS.

AND YOU KNOW, AT THE VERY BEGINNING.

AND I WAS REMINDED OF THIS TODAY WITH THE BIDEN ANNOUNCEMENT.

WHEN THE GOVERNOR WAS FIRST ANNOUNCING THAT THESE WERE COMING, IT WAS HIS INTENT TO GET ALL THE DOSES THAT HE'S GIVEN OUT ASAP AND NOT WAIT FOR THAT SECOND DOSE.

AND THEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID OH, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WE'RE HOLDING BACK HALF OF THESE SO THAT YOU CAN GIVE THEM TO THE NEXT -- FOR THAT SECOND SHOT.

SO THAT DELAYED BOTH PIECES, THE NURSING HOMES AND ALSO THE HOSPITAL SYSTEMS.

AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT I REPORTED ON WITH MY COLLEAGUE ANN SAKER FROM THE INQUIRER, THAT IN THAT GROUP 1A THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF HEALTH PROFESSIONALS THAT SEE COVID PATIENTS ON A REGULAR BASIS BUT THEY'RE NOT TIED TO A HOSPITAL SYSTEM, MAYBE THEY'RE AN INDEPENDENT FAMILY PRACTICE DOCTOR OR PEDIATRICIAN OR PHYSICAL THERAPIST.

BUT THEY ARE NOT GETTING INOCULATED EN MASSE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED TO THAT HOSPITAL SYSTEM.

THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THAT JOB AS WELL AS SOME OF THESE OLDER PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT -- THEY'RE NOT IN A NURSING HOME THAT'S PART OF THE PROGRAM THAT THE STATE IS GOING WITH.

SO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENTS ARE ALSO CRYING OUT FOR MORE DOSES.

HAMILTON COUNTY THIS WEEK SAID THEY ONLY HAD 500 DOSES TO GIVE OUT AND THAT IS NOT ENOUGH JUST EVEN FOR THAT FIRST -- VERY FIRST POPULATION.

NOW WE'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT ADDING 2 MILLION MORE PEOPLE TO THE LINE.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GET TO OUR LAST TOPIC.

THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN PERHAPS TOPIC NUMBER ONE HAD NOT EVERYTHING ELSE HAPPENED.

THIS IS NOT WHAT VIGIL ATTENDEES IN DAYTON OR PROBABLY EVEN THE GOVERNOR HAD IN MIND WHEN THE VIGIL ATTENDEES CHANTED "DO SOMETHING" ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE.

AFTER HINTING AT A VETO, GOVERNOR DEWINE THIS WEEK SIGNED THE SO-CALLED STAND YOUR GROUND LAW.

IT REMOVES THE DUTY TO RETREAT WHEN FACED WITH DEADLY FORCE IN ALL LOCATIONS NOW BASICALLY.

THE GOVERNOR SAID HE WANTED THE LEGISLATURE TO PASS MODEST NEW GUN REGULATIONS BUT THEY DIDN'T AND HE SIGNED THE NEW LAW ANYWAY.

>> THIS IS A COMMITMENT THAT I MADE SEVERAL YEARS AGO, AND THE LEGISLATURE DELIVERED A BILL THAT DID THAT.

NOW, IT DID NOT DO WHAT I -- ALL THE OTHER THINGS I WANTED TO DO.

I MADE MY CASE I THINK TODAY PRETTY STRONGLY, AND I MADE MY CASE IN MY PUBLIC STATEMENT YESTERDAY ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>> MORGAN HARPER, DO YOU REALLY THINK GOVERNOR DEWINE WANTS TO PASS EVEN THOSE MODEST GUN REGULATIONS?

DO YOU THINK HE COULD HAVE IF HE WANTED TO OR IS IT JUST THE LEGISLATURE IS JUST TOO FAR RIGHT FOR HIM TO DO THAT?

>> IT'S HARD TO EVEN KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN WITH THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS BECAUSE THEY'RE SO DANGEROUS.

AND JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T THAT FAMILIAR.

IT STARTED IN FLORIDA IN THE EARLY 2000s.

THEY'VE NOW SPREAD TO STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY, OVER 30 OF THEM.

AND WE ACTUALLY SEE THAT CRIME INCREASES BY 30% AFTER THESE LAWS.

HOMICIDES, I SHOULD SAY.

IN AN ERA WHERE OVERALL CRIME HAS BEEN DECREASING.

AND SO THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNOR WOULD DO THIS, I THINK HE IS REALLY REVEALING WHO HE IS.

I THINK HE COULD DO SOMETHING IF HE CHOSE TO BUT HE IS COMFORTABLE PUTTING PEOPLE IN THE STATE AT RISK.

THIS IS A DANGEROUS LAW, AND WE SHOULD BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS HE IS NOT A CENTRIST, HE IS ACTUALLY VERY MUCH ALIGNED WITH HIS BASE, THAT HE'S NOT JUST PLACATING, HE IS ONE OF.

>> SHANNON JONES, HAS MIKE DEWINE BEEN WRAPPING UP HIS SECOND TERM AS GOVERNOR, NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, NOT NEEDING GOP SUPPORT, MIGHT HE HAVE VETOED IT, DO YOU THINK?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

IT'S JUST NOT THAT SURPRISING THAT REPUBLICANS ARE PRO SECOND AMENDMENT, WHETHER IT'S GOVERNOR DEWINE OR MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE.

I MEAN, IT'S CLEARLY JUST A MATTER OF TIME FOR THIS BILL TO PASS UNDER THE CURRENT POLITICAL CIRCUMSTANCES, WHERE THE MAKEUP OF THE LEGISLATURE THAT IT IS TODAY.

AND SO YOU KNOW, I GIVE DEWINE A LOT OF CREDIT FOR VERY PUBLICLY TRYING TO MOVE THE BALL ON SOME REALLY MINIMAL REGULATION, BUT THERE WAS ZERO APPETITE FOR THAT FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

SO YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT TO PLAY THE HAND THAT HE'S BEEN DEALT.

IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT REPUBLICANS SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

BUT HE SHOULD GET -- YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD NOT GO UNNOTICED THAT HE REALLY DID TRY TO PUT IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE DEBATE AND FORCE DEBATE IN THE LEGISLATURE ON SOME MODEST CHANGES.

THEY WEREN'T HAVING ANYTHING OF THAT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

TIME NOW FOR OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD.

OUR PARTING SHOTS FOR THE WEEK.

AND SHANNON JONES, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>>, I HAVE TO -- AFTER A REALLY TOUGH WEEK OF HEAVY NEWS I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE BIG GAME ON MONDAY AND I'M GOING TO -- IT PREDICT A WIN FOR THE BUCKEYES ON MONDAY NIGHT.

>> YEAH.

YOU HAVE TO PREDICT IF YOU WANT TO COME BACK I GUESS.

RIGHT?

ANYWAY.

MORGAN HARPER, YOU'RE UP NEXT.

>> YEAH.

WE TOUCHED BRIEFLY ON BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT AND PROTESTS AND I JUST WANT TO CONTINUE TO RAISE UP THE NAMES OF CASEY GOODSON JR., ANDRE HILL WHO UNFORTUNATELY LOST THEIR LIVES THIS WINTER AT THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND HOPE THEIR FAMILIES AND WE AS A STATE, AS A COMMUNITY ARE ABLE TO GET ACCOUNTABILITY THERE.

>> AND WE WILL DISCUSS THOSE CASES A LOT MORE IN THE WEEKS TO COME.

JACKIE BORCHARDT, YOUR FINAL THOUGHT.

>> WELL, AN OHIO ARTS COUNCIL MEMBER SUSAN ALLEN BLOCK FROM TOLEDO SHE WAS A KASICH APPOINTEE AND A DEWINE REAPPOINTEE, SHE RESIGNED ON FRIDAY AFTER SOME SOCIAL MEDIA COMMENTS OF HER REFERRING TO VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT KAMALA HARRIS AS A DEROGATORY TERM FOR WOMEN AND ALSO SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT'S FALSE CLAIMS OF WIDESPREAD ELECTION FRAUD WERE CIRCULATING.

PEOPLE WERE CALLING ON HER FOR HER RESIGNATION OR HER REMOVAL, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY DIFFICULT.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FAST, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

>> WE'VE GOT TO GO.

GO BUCKS.

GO BROWNS.

THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE, WOSU.ORG.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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