>> IT LOOKS LIKE OHIOANS ON OBAMACARE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE.

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WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

THIS WEEK FEATURED THE PROMISED SENATE VOTE ON EXTENDING OBAMACARE SUBSIDIES, WHICH PUT OHIO'S TWO REPUBLICAN SENATORS ON THE SPOT.

JON HUSTED AND BERNIE MORENO OPPOSED JUST EXTENDING THE TEMPORARY SUBSIDIES FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT A PLAN FOR REDUCING HEALTH CARE COSTS.

BUT THEY FELT PRESSURE FROM THE NEARLY 600,000 OHIOANS ON OBAMACARE WHO FACE RISING PREMIUMS WHEN THE SUBSIDIES END.

BOTH SENATORS SUPPORTED A COMPROMISE, A TWO-YEAR EXTENSION WITH INCOME CAPS AND OTHER CHANGES.

THAT DEAL NEVER CAME UP FOR A VOTE.

MORENO AND HUSTED VOTED AGAINST A THREE- YEAR EXTENSION PROPOSED BY DEMOCRATS AND VOTED FOR A REPUBLICAN PLAN TO ADD MONEY TO AMERICANS' HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.

BOTH OF THOSE BILLS FAILED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET THE 60 VOTES NECESSARY.

ANDREW TOBIAS, THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE PROBABLY FOR JON HUSTED BECAUSE HE'S ON THE BALLOT NEXT YEAR.

HE MADE IT VERY CLEAR HE WANTED SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE, BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

DOES THIS GIVE HIM SOME COVER TO SAY I TRIED AT LEAST?

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

I INTERVIEWED HIM TODAY BECAUSE HE LAUNCHED HIS CAMPAIGN.

WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT THAT MORE.

HE TALKED ABOUT A CHALLENGE HE FACES IS GETTING THINGS DONE IN THE SENATE WHERE YOU NEED 60 VOTES, MAYBE GETTING BLAMED FOR THINGS THAT DO OR DON'T HAPPEN.

SO IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT I THINK HAS THE POTENTIAL TO AFFECT HIS CANDIDACY NEXT YEAR AND JUST THE BROADER ELECTORAL RACE.

HE SAID THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN'T GET DONE IN WASHINGTON UNLESS YOU GET DEMOCRATS TO VOTE WITH YOU.

>> HE COULD HAVE VOTED FOR A THREE-YEAR DEAL.

SUSAN COLLINS VOTED FOR THE THREE- YEAR DEAL, REPUBLICAN FROM MAINE.

>> OBVIOUSLY IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.

>> MAINE REPUBLICANS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN AN OHIO REPUBLICAN.

JOE, DEMOCRATS SEIZED ON THIS RIGHT AWAY, ATTACKING JON HUSTED FOR VOTING AGAINST THE SUBSIDIES.

>> YEAH, AND YOU KNOW, IT BRINGS ME NO JOY BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE THING ABOUT HAVING TALKING POINTS AT THE MIDTERMS OR WHATEVER BRINGS ME NO JOY BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT 600,000 OHIOANS WHO'VE GOT 20 MILLION PLUS PEOPLE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND YOU WOULD THINK SOMETHING WOULD BE WORKED OUT.

IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YEARS ONLY, TALKING ABOUT THREE YEARS VERSUS TWO YEARS, WE COULD HAVE A TWO-YEAR DEMOCRAT-ONLY PLAN.

THE PROBLEM IS IN THE LONG VIEW, AND THIS IS SORT OF A FAVORED TOPIC FOR ME, IS OBAMACARE COULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A PERFECT PLAN.

AND THAT WAS KNOWN THEN.

WE KNEW IT WHEN IT PASSED.

AND SO ON.

AND I DON'T THINK, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE SOMETHING PERHAPS LIKE MEDICARE FOR ALL, THAT THIS SUBJECT WILL BE ADDRESSED BY THE RICHEST NATION ON EARTH.

BUT IT CANNOT BE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM, WHICH IS 25% TO 33% OF THE ECONOMY, PRIVATE HEALTH CARE, THAT WOULD CEASE TO EXIST AS WE KNOW IT.

AND I UNDERSTAND.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVE ON THAT.

>> MEDICARE FOR ALL IS NOT PERFECT BECAUSE ALTHOUGH YOU SAW THE ACCESS POINT YOU DON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH THE QUALITY OF THE HEALTH CARE.

HERE'S AN IMPORTANT CONTEXT TO REMEMBER FOR THIS.

THIS DEADLINE THAT'S COMING UP WAS GIVEN TO US BY THE DEMOCRATS WHEN THEY PASSED IT.

THEY SAID IT SHOULD EXPIRE RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S EXPIRING RIGHT NOW.

SECONDLY, THIS IS CALLED OBAMACARE.

AND WHEN BARACK OBAMA GAVE IT TO US HE PROMISED IT WOULD REDUCE FAMILIES' PREMIUMS BY $2,500.

AND NOW THEY'VE GONE UP BY NEARLY $3,000.

THIS WAS A MESS TO START WITH AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE MOVING TOWARD HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.

>> SO BUT $1,500 IS WHAT THEY WANTED TO PUT IN THIS.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO DO MUCH, MARK.

$1,500 IN A HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

WHEN YOUR PREMIUMS COST $500, $600 A MONTH AT LEAST.

>> MOVING TOWARD A PLAN WHERE PEOPLE GET THE MONEY TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE HOW TO SPEND IT RATHER THAN GIVE IT TO INSURANCE COMPANIES, WHICH IS THE CURRENT SUBSIDIES THAT THE DEMOCRATS GAVE US WITH THIS DEADLINE, IS A BETTER DIRECTION THAN MEDICARE FOR ALL.

>> AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I ALWAYS LOOK FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY YOU AND I AGREE 100%.

I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH MARK 100% IN THE IDENTIFICATION THAT THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE PLAN, OR AT LEAST THE ALTERNATIVE PLAN THAT CONSERVATIVES ADVANCE IS THAT OF GIVING THE MONEY TO INDIVIDUALS.

THE PROBLEM IS --AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR ALL DEMOCRATS.

BUT AT LEAST FOR THIS DEMOCRAT RIGHT HERE, IS THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT NECESSARILY DO THE WISE OR THE RIGHT THING.

ESPECIALLY WITHOUT THE CONTROLS.

IF YOU LOOK BACK ON THE ORIGINAL PLAN, WHICH WAS THE BILL CLINTON AND HILLARY CLINTON PLAN, THERE WAS LIKE NO MOVEMENT WHATSOEVER.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SPECIFIC PLAN.

O'BAM A. OBAMACARE WAS SORT OF SOMETHING IN BETWEEN.

>> THE SUBSIDIES MONEY STILL GOES TO THE HOSPITALS, MONEY STILL GOES TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

A LITTLE CONTROL ON THE EDGES BUT IT STILL DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO CONTROL COSTS.

IT JUST --THE GOVERNMENT WILL PAY THE COST RATHER THAN THE PEOPLE.

>> YEAH.

AND I JUST --FOR ME FRANKLY I TEND TO VIEW THIS AS A RAW POLITICAL ISSUE IN THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE 600,000 PEOPLE LIKE YOU SAID WHO ARE SUDDENLY GOING TO SEE THEIR PREMIUMS GO UP EXPONENTIALLY, SO IT'S JUST GOING TO SHOW UP AND HURT PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS.

IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED PROBLEM OBVIOUSLY BEYOND THAT.

>> MARK, DOES THAT HUFT JON HUSTED WHEN THOSE FOR WHATEVER REASONS YOU SUPPORT THIS OR DON'T SUPPORT THIS, YOU WANT A DIFFERENT FIX, THERE'S A MORE COMPLICATED FIX, THOSE PREMIUM INCREASES ARE GOING TO HAPPEN JANUARY 1st.

WILL JON HUSTED SUFFER FROM IT?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK JON WILL MAKE THE CASE THAT SHERROD BROWN WAS THE ONE THAT GAVE US THIS DEADLINE AND WAS ENTHUSIASTICALLY BEHIND OBAMACARE, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO REDUCE PREMIUMS.

AND IT'S RAISED IT.

WHENEVER GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S GOING TO SUBSIDIZE SOMETHING THE INDUSTRY, IN THIS CASE THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY, RAISES THE PRICES TO ACCOMMODATE THAT.

THAT'S BASIC ECONOMICS.

>> THE FACT HE WANTS TO COMPROMISE AND VOTE FOR A VERSION OF OBAMACARE, THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROGRAM AND HOW REPUBLICANS VIEW IT NOW, RIGHT, MARK?

>> WELL, IT'S GOT TO BE REFORMED.

CERTAINLY THIS IS THE PLAN WE HAVE.

SO STARTING OVER FROM SCRATCH IS GOING TO BE VERY HARD IN A DIVIDED NATION SUCH AS THIS.

SO IT STARTS WITH REFORM, AND I THINK JON HUSTED AND BERNIE MORENO ARE TWO PEOPLE WHO CAN HELP THAT HAPPEN.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY THE REASON WHY THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS HAD TO DO WITH CHUCK SCHUMER OR ANYONE ELSE IS NOT GOING TO WORK OUT.

PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN USED TO OBAMACARE.

YOU CAN NIBBLE AT THE EDGES, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I THINK THEY APPRECIATE HAVING A SYSTEM.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY CHANCE OF A COMPROMISE IN THE FINAL WEEK?

CONGRESS GOES ON VACATION THE END OF NEXT WEEK.

THESE SUBSIDIES END DECEMBER 31st.

THE HOUSE APPARENTLY IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> JANUARY.

THERE WON'T BE ANYTHING THIS YEAR.

I LIVED AND WORKED IN WASHINGTON FOR YEARS, AND THE RUSH TO GET HOME BEFORE THE CHRISTMAS BREAK FROM CAPITOL HILL IS GREATER THAN THE NEED TO RESOLVE A PROBLEM, SADLY.

>> IN AGREEMENT.

>> SO WERE DEMOCRATS RIGHT OR WRONG, JOE, TO GIVE UP THE SHUTDOWN, WHICH THEY GAVE UP THE SHUTDOWN FOR THIS VOTE?

AND NOTHING HAPPENED.

>> THEY HAD TO GIVE UP --I'M ONE OF THE FEW THAT BELIEVES THAT THEY HAD TO GIVE UP THE SHUTDOWN FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THEY WERE NEGOTIATING AGAINST AN ENTITY THAT DIDN'T WANT IT TO WORK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IT WAS A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION.

SO THEY HAD TO PUT A STOP TO IT.

GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.

AND THEN AT LEAST THEY GET THE VOTE NOW.

BUT - - >> IT IS STILL VERY EARLY.

11 MONTHS BEFORE THE 2026 ELECTION.

BUT A NEW POLL GIVES OHIO DEMOCRATS HOPE AND REPUBLICANS PAUSE.

THE EMERSON COLLEGE POLL SHOWS OHIO'S TWO TOP DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES IMPROVING THEIR POSITION SINCE THE SUMMER.

AMY ACTON HAS GONE FROM 10 POINTS DOWN IN AUGUST TO TIED WITH VIVEK RAMASWAMY IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

9% REMAIN UNDECIDED IN THAT RACE.

IN THE CONTEST FOR U. S. SENATE JON HUSTED HAS A THREE-POINT LEAD OVER SHERROD BROWN.

BROWN HAS IMPROVED SLIGHTLY SINCE AUGUST, BUT THAT RACE REMAINS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.

THE POLL FOUND THE ECONOMY REMAINS TOPIC NUMBER ONE FOR OHIOANS.

HALF OF OHIOANS SURVEYED LIKE THE JOB PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING.

HALF DO NOT.

AND GOVERNOR DeWINE'S APPROVAL RATING IS FALLING PRETTY FAST.

AND IT'S KIND OF LOW.

MARK, YOU'VE SEEN A LOT OF POLLS.

IT IS EARLY.

IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS POLL THAT SHOULD GIVE REPUBLICANS WORRY OR CONCERN?

>> YEAH, I LOOKED AT THE POLL, AS YOU MENTIONED, I'VE READ THOUSANDS OF POLLS.

I LOOKED UNDER THE HOOD.

I LOOKED AT THE BASIC CROSS TABS OF THE POLL.

A COUPLE THINGS JUMPED OUT AT ME.

NUMBER ONE, AMY ACTON IS NOT VERY WELL KNOWN.

NEITHER IS VIVEK RAMASWAMY.

THEY BOTH HAVE A LOT OF ROOM TO GROW.

NUMBER TWO, SHERROD BROWN IS EXTREMELY WELL KNOWN.

MUCH BETTER KNOWN THAN JON HUSTED.

YET HE'S STILL TRAILING JON HUSTED.

SHERROD BROWN SHOULD HAVE BEEN PERFORMING MUCH BETTER FOR SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN IN OFFICE IN OHIO ALMOST THE ENTIRETY OF THE LAST 50 YEARS.

THAT'S A SIGN THAT JON HUSTED ALMOST CERTAINLY IS GOING TO WIN THAT RACE.

VIVEK IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE HIS CASE AND SHOW PEOPLE WHO HE IS.

A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS YET.

>> IS HE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE HIS CASE TO REPUBLICANS?

BECAUSE THINKS UNFAVORABLE RATINGS AMONG REPUBLICANS SEEMED A BIT HIGH.

IT WAS IN THE OVER 40% RANGE, BETWEEN SLIGHTLY UNFAVORABLE AND VERY UNFAVORABLE.

>> YEAH, AND THAT'S AMONG THOSE WHO HAVE OPINIONS.

ANOTHER THING ABOUT THIS POLL IS IT WAS OF ALL VOTERS, NOT OF LIKELY VOTERS.

POLITICAL POLLS TEND TO LOOK AT THE POLLS OF LIKELY VOTERS WITH MORE CREDIBILITY.

>> STILL SOME CONCERN THAT -- >> WE'RE IN A REPUBLICAN STATE LARGELY BUT WE CAN'T COAST ON THAT.

HE'S GOING TO MAKE HIS CASE AND HE'S GOT A MUCH BETTER CASE TO MAKE THAN AMY ACTON DOES.

>> IS AMY ACTON'S TEN-POINT INCREASE, JOE, IS THAT BECAUSE SHE'S CONSOLIDATING SUPPORT BECAUSE TIM RYAN THE FORMER CONGRESSMAN HAS DECIDED NOT TO RUN?

>> YES.

IN PART.

BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT I THINK PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO KNOW HER A LITTLE MORE.

AND MARK'S CORRECT.

I THINK THAT FOLKS REMEMBER HER BACK FROM THE COVID CRISIS BUT NOT NECESSARILY SEEING HER AS A CHIEF EXECUTIVE, AS SOMEBODY THAT IS LIKELY TO RUN THE STATE.

WHAT COMES THROUGH IN THESE TIMES THAT PERSONALITY SEEMS TO BE A PREVALENT ISSUE IS THAT SHE IS A DECENT, NICE PERSON.

AND CAN BE OF COURSE A GOOD CHIEF EXECUTIVE.

SURROUNDED BY INDIVIDUALS THAT KNOW WHERE THINGS ARE.

AND WOULD MAKE A GOOD ONE.

DON'T FORGET A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS HERE.

THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A BLUEING OF THE VOTERS GOING INTO 2026.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THAT RAMASWAMY MAY BE HAVING SOME TROUBLES FROM THE RIGHT BECAUSE OF SOME STATEMENTS HE HAS MADE CONCERNING H1B VISAS AND OTHER THINGS.

>> ANDREW, WHAT DO YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POLL?

>> IT STRUCK ME THAT BOTH DEMOCRATS ARE AT 46% BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO GET TO 50 TO WIN MORE OR LESS.

AND THEY'RE BASICALLY AT THE SAME NUMBER.

AND SO WE SAW LAST YEAR THAT RACE WAS POLLING REALLY TIGHTLY GOING UP TO IT AND MORENO WON 50-47 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THERE WAS A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE WHO DREW SOME VOTES AS WELL.

THIS IS SHAPING UP WHERE IF DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO WIN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SQUEAK IN BECAUSE --UNLESS THEY CAN REALLY DRAMATICALLY IMPROVE THEIR NUMBERS.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S APPROVAL RATING HERE IN OHIO IS SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN IT IS NATIONALLY.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, MARK?

>> WELL, THIS IS A STATE THAT HAS SUPPORTED HIM EVERY TIME HE'S RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

WE KNOW THAT HE HAS A LOW FLOOR AND --A HIGH FLOOR AND A LOW CEILING.

HE TENDS TO STAY RIGHT IN THE LOW TO MID 40s.

HE'LL RARELY EVER GET PAST THAT.

WE'RE A DIVIDED COUNTRY.

WE'RE A DIVIDED STATE.

AND I THINK BY AND LARGE THIS IS A RED STATE THAT LIKES WHAT TRUMP IS DOING ONLY SLIGHTLY A MAJORITY.

I THINK IF HE WERE TO RUN AGAIN - -HE CAN'T BUT IF HE WERE I THINK HE WOULD WIN OHIO AGAIN.

>> JOE, A CLEAR MAJORITY OF VOTERS IN OHIO SAY MASS DEPORTATION OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS IS A GOOD THING.

>> WE HAVEN'T HAD THE SCENES THAT CHICAGO HAS HAD OR LOS ANGELES HAS HAD.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT'S COMING FROM?

>> YEAH.

AND YOU KNOW, I WAS ACTUALLY VERY, VERY SURPRISED THAT THAT WAS THE CASE.

BECAUSE YOU SEE PEOPLE ON THE STREET AND I SEE ELECTED OFFICIALS AND JUDGES AND SO ON.

YOU DON'T GET THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE IS THAT TYPE OF SENTIMENT THAT IS PREVALENT OR STRONG IN THE STATE OF OHIO WITH RESPECT TO IMMIGRATION.

WITH RESPECT TO DEPORTATION.

SO THAT WAS A SURPRISE TO ME.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT IS ALSO WHAT IS SAVING US BECAUSE THE ADMINISTRATION IS ADDRESSING THIS DEPORTATION THING LIKE A REALITY SHOW AND IT'S SENDING TROOPS IN UNIFORM, ONE MIGHT SAY IN DRAG, TO A VARIETY OF CITIES THAT HAPPEN TO BE DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED CITIES.

WE'RE A DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED CITY.

WE DON'T HAVE THE VISIBILITY OF A LOS ANGELES.

WE DON'T HAVE THE PUSHBACK OF A CHICAGO OR THE INTELLECTUAL -- >> OR A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR LIKE ILLINOIS AND CALIFORNIA.

>> SO THAT'S MY IMPRESSION ON THAT.

THAT'S KIND OF SAVING US.

AND WE'RE NOT SEEING THE DYNAMIC DEPORTATION -- >> TO BE CLEAR THE UNIFORMS ARE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND NATIONAL GUARD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE WEARING IN DRAG.

THIS QUESTION WAS WRITTEN IN SUCH A WAY THAT SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A MUCH BIGGER RESULT ON THE SIDE OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO SEE THE DEPORTATION.

HAD IT BEEN WRITTEN SHOULD FEDERAL LAW BE ENFORCED THAT YOU CAN'T BE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN 70-30.

AND THAT'S THE HEART OF THIS ISSUE.

PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT WE'RE DEPORTING PEOPLE SHOULD GO TO CONGRESS, GET THE LAW CHANGED AND THEN THEY CAN GET WHAT THEY WANT.

BUT THE LAW CURRENTLY PASSED BY CONGRESS IS YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY IF YOU'RE ILLEGAL.

>> AND WE'VE BEEN TRYING SINCE 2006 TO DO JUST THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU YOU REMEMBER THE KENNEDY-McCAIN BILL, WHICH WAS OPPOSED --DEPORTING PEOPLE ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION HERE.

BACK IN 2006, 64% OF SELF-IDENTIFIED CONSERVATIVES FELT THAT WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE IS A ROUTE, IS A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP.

AND CONGRESS DID NOT PASS IT.

>> SO THAT'S NOT THE LAW.

>> THE LAW IS --IF WE HAD POLLED IT THAT WAY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN 70-30.

>> BUT IF IT IS 70-30 WHY DON'T WE FIX IT?

WHY DOESN'T CONGRESS FIX IT?

SO MANY PEOPLE WANT TO FIX THIS PROBLEM -- >> THEY KNOW POLLS BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE AND THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY THINK THEIR PEOPLE WANT THEM TO DO AND THE FACT THAT THEY HAVEN'T AND THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T GET A SUPER MAJORITY IN THE SENATE OUR SYSTEM IS DESIGNED THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE BEHIND AN ISSUE IN ORDER FOR IT TO PASS -- >> AND THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO JOHN McCAIN.

JOHN McCAIN, ALTHOUGH SPONSOR OF THE BILL, WHEN HE WENT BACK HOME HE CAME BACK AND SAID I HAD NO IDEA I HAD THIS KIND OF OPPOSITION.

>> MICKEY CANTOR LOST A SEAT BECAUSE OF THAT.

>> IN ARIZONA.

>> NEXT UP, OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES NATIONAL, STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE BEEN WITH INCREASING GENEROSITY GIVING TAX MONEY TO PRIVATE COMPANIES TO MOVE, BUILD AND EXPAND.

OFFICIALS ARGUE THE INVESTMENTS CREATE JOBS AND EXPAND THE TAX BASE.

BUT TWO RECENT REPORTS CAST DOUBT ON THE PROGRAMS.

STATE AUDITOR KEITH FABER SAYS AN AUDIT SHOWS 2 OUT OF 3 COMPANIES WHO RECEIVED STATE GRANTS FAILED TO CREATE THE JOBS THEY PROMISED AND THE STATE HAS NOT ASKED FOR ITS MONEY BACK.

AND A REPORT RELEASED BY FRANKLIN COUNTY AUDITOR MICHAEL STINZIANO SAYS LOCAL TAX INCENTIVES TO PRIVATE COMPANIES ARE LOSING THEIR EFFECTIVENESS.

ANDREW TOBIAS, THIS IS A REPUBLICAN AUDITOR, A DEMOCRATIC AUDITOR.

BOTH KIND OF REACHING THE SAME CONCLUSION, THAT THESE THINGS DON'T WORK AS WELL AS PROMISED.

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

I'M DOING --I'M WORKING ON A STORY ABOUT AN UNRELATED TOPIC BUT I INTERVIEWED A REPUBLICAN STATE LEGISLATIVE CANDIDATE FOR THAT AND SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW PEOPLE IN HER RURAL DISTRICT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT CORPORATE WELFARE.

IT'S SOMETHING YOU HEAR MORE AND MORE ON THE RIGHT, WHICH IS ALWAYS KIND OF SOMETHING PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT AT LEAST IN MY LIFE ON THE LEFT.

SO IT'S INTERESTING TO KIND OF SEE THE IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM KIND OF CONVERGING ON THIS.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SAYS ABOUT WHETHER THESE INCENTIVES ARE WORKING OR NOT.

OBVIOUSLY THAT REPORT FOUND THAT MANY OF THEM WERE FALLING SHORT OF WHAT THE TERMS WERE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT IT IS INTERESTING HOW YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF SEE THE DIFFERENT POLLS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM KIND OF COMING TOGETHER ON THIS.

>> MARK, WHY DON'T THEY ASK FOR THE MONEY BACK?

YOU GET A TAX BREAK.

YOU GET A GRANT.

YOU GET A TAX DEFERRAL.

THREE YEARS LATER YOU HAVEN'T CREATED THE JOBS.

WRITE US A CHECK, GIVE US THE MONEY BACK.

>> I'M FOR IT.

PERHAPS 2025.

WE STARTED WITH DOGE UNCOVERING ALL SORTS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF FRAUD IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT OBAMACARE EARLIER.

95% OF THE FRAUD AUDITS DONE SHOWED FRAUD IN THAT PROGRAM.

AND THEN IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA WE NOW KNOW THAT AT LEAST A BILLION DOLLARS OF FRAUD WAS SIPHONED THROUGH THE SOMALI BACK TO TERRORIST GROUPS IN SOMALIA -- >> WHAT ABOUT THE INTEL DEALS?

ALL THESE DEALS ARE DONE BY REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS.

STRICKLAND SERVED JUST FOUR YEARS.

>> SURE.

>> SO WHERE'S THE FRAUD THERE?

>> WELL, KEITH FABER'S DOING THE RIGHT THING BY BRINGING A SPOTLIGHT TO IT.

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO ARE SPENDING MONEY IN A WAY THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE POLICY SET AND THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN OUTRIGHT FRAUD.

THE AUDITOR HAS THE ABILITY TO ASK FOR FINDINGS FOR RECOVERY WHEN THERE'S OUTRIGHT FRAUD.

I TRUST KEITH FABER TO DO IT.

>> NOW HE'S RAISED THE ISSUE THAT THE STATE SHOULD CLAW BACK THIS MONEY, EVEN IF IT'S NOT FRAUD IT'S JUST NOT LIVING UP TO THE DEAL.

>> I'M FOR GETTING AS MUCH MONEY BACK AS WE CAN.

BUT WHETHER IT'S LIVING UP TO A DEAL IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER.

THE FRAUD IS IF YOU'RE AT CROSS-WAYS WITH THE LAW YOU OUGHT TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

>> JOE, DOES THIS MEAN THESE INCENTIVES ARE GOING TO GO BY THE WAYSIDE?

>> NO.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT MUNICIPALITIES ARE TRYING TO HIT A SWEET SPOT.

REAL ESTATE -- WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT REAL ESTATE TAXES HERE.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT GOES EXCLUSIVELY TO SCHOOLS, FIRE AND POLICE.

AND WHAT DO YOU WANT, IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO IMPROVE YOUR COMMUNITY IS YOU WANT INCOME TAX.

AND OF COURSE THAT'S WHAT'S BEING OFFERED.

THE JOBS SO THAT THOSE FOLKS THEN WILL PAY THE INCOME TAX, THE PROBLEM IS IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK OUT.

AND THE PROMISES ADVANCED BY SOME OF THESE COMPANIES, WANTING THE ABATEMENTS, SOMETIMES THEY COME THROUGH, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T.

LOOK AT INTEL.

>> FRANKLIN COUNTY, NEARLY $300 MILLION IN TAXES WERE EITHER FORFEITED OR REDIRECTED BECAUSE OF THESE DEALS.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

THE NG IS FRANKLIN COUNTY STILL GETS THAT MONEY, ANDREW, IT'S JUST OTHER PEOPLE PAY IT, THE HOMEOWNERS PAY IT.

AND WITH THE PROPERTY TAX DEBATE THIS HAS TO BE RISING UP AS AN ISSUE, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU HEARD DISCUSSED WHEN THE LEGISLATURE WAS LOOKING AT PROPERTY TAX RATES AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO KEEP THOSE DOWN.

ABATEMENTS ARE PART OF THAT TOO BECAUSE IT LESSENS THE TAX BASE.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CRITICIZING THESE KINDS OF BUSINESS INCENTIVES FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER AND THEY KIND OF STAY AROUND.

IT'S HARD FOR ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL TO TURN DOWN A PROJECT THAT THEY CAN KIND OF LIKE CUT THE RIBBON ON, THEY CAN CAMPAIGN ON IT, EVEN OBVIOUSLY SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T COME TO FRUITION.

I JUST WOULD BE SKEPTICAL THESE ARE EVER GOING TO GO COMPLETELY BY THE WAYSIDE.

BUT I DO THINK THERE'S MORE SKEPTICISM IN GENERAL THAN THERE USED TO BE.

>> INTEL WAS I THINK SOUGHT AFTER BY 38 DIFFERENT SITES.

DO WE KNOW OF ANY POLITICIANS IN PENNSYLVANIA OR ARIZONA OR TEXAS WHO LOST THEIR JOB BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LAND THE INTEL SITE, MARK?

>> NO, BUT YOU CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT IS WHEN YOU GIVE INCENTIVES FOR BUSINESS TO COME YOU CAN BE CRITICIZED IF THEY'RE NOT MEETING THE PREDICTIONS.

ON THE OTHER END OF IT IF YOU ALLOW ANOTHER STATE TO GET THE JOBS YOU CAN BE CRITICIZED FOR ALLOWING ANOTHER STATE TO GET THE JOBS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OUR LAST TOPIC.

IN RECENT DECADES MORE AND MORE AMERICANS HAVE ENJOYED DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

IMMIGRANTS HAVE KEPT THEIR NATIVE COUNTRY'S CITIZENSHIP EVEN AFTER THEY BECAME NATURALIZED AMERICANS.

MANY AMERICANS HAVE OBTAINED CITIZENSHIP OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

SENATOR BERNIE MORENO WANTS TO END THAT.

HE HAS PROPOSED A NEW LAW THAT WOULD ELIMINATE DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

MORENO RENOUNCED HIS NATIVE COLOMBIAN CITIZENSHIP WHEN HE BECAME AN AMERICAN AS A TEENAGER.

HE SAYS THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING AN AMERICAN SHOULD BE, QUOTE, ALL OR NOTHING.

IF HIS BILL BECOMES LAW, ALL DUAL CITIZENS WOULD HAVE A YEAR TO CHOOSE A COUNTRY, PICK JUST ONE PASSPORT.

THAT LIST OF PEOPLE WOULD INCLUDE FIRST LADY MELANIA TRUMP AND HER AND PRESIDENT'S SON --PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON BARRON, WHO HAVE DUAL AMERICAN AND SLOVENIAN CITIZENSHIP.

JOE MAS, YOU ARE A DUAL CITIZEN.

>> I AM.

>> OF CUBA AND THE UNITED STATES.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

AND THAT HAPPENED SORT OF AS AN AFTERTHOUGHT, LET'S SAY.

WHEN I BECAME AN AMERICAN CITIZEN IN 1967, 1968 IT WAS MY EXPECTATION THAT I HAD TO RENOUNCE MY CUBAN CITIZENSHIP.

AND THE REASON I BECAME AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, I WAS ABOUT TO GET DRAFTED AND I WANTED TO HAVE ALL OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE FOR ME WHETHER TO PERHAPS GO TO FLIGHT SCHOOL OR DO SOMETHING ELSE.

SO IT WAS SORT OF AN AFTERTHOUGHT.

BUT THEN MANY YEARS LATER, IN FACT 50 YEARS AFTER I LEFT CUBA, THEN I REALIZED BECAUSE OF CUBAN LAW THAT IN ORDER FOR ME TO GO VISIT MY AUNT IN CUBA WHO WAS NOW ELDERLY AND HAS SINCE PASSED AWAY THAT I NEEDED TO GET A CUBAN PASSPORT.

AND I HAD TO GO THROUGH THE RIGAMAROLE OF THAT.

SO AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT --CUBA NEVER ACCEPTED MY RENUNCIATION BACK IN '67 OR '68.

AND ONE THING THAT I FOUND OUT SINCE WE STARTED STUDYING THIS TOPIC FOR THE SHOW TODAY IS THAT THERE HAVE SINCE BEEN A COUPLE OF SUPREME COURT DECISIONS THAT SAID YOU CANNOT FORCE AMERICAN CITIZENS TO RENOUNCE A SECOND CITIZENSHIP.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T KNOW.

>> SHOULD PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP, MARK?

>> IT FEELS KIND OF WEIRD IN A WAY BUT IN SOME WAYS YOU CAN THINK OF IT HAWKS SENSE IF YOU HAVE HERITAGE THERE.

I THINK MELANIA TRUMP IS PROUD OF HER SLOVENIAN HERITAGE.

THAT'S WHY SHE KEEPS IT.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHO THIS WILL PUT ME IN CROSS-WAY WITH BUT I THINK PICK A COUNTRY.

AMERICA'S A GREAT PLACE.

MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WOULD LOVE.

THEY DO A LOT.

WE KNOW THEY WOULD DO A LOT TO BECOME AMERICAN CITIZENS.

SO IF I'M VOTING, NO ONE'S ASKED ME.

EXCEPT YOU.

YEAH, I THINK YOU PICK YOUR COUNTRY AND IF YOU PICK AMERICA THEN YOU DON'T PICK ANOTHER COUNTRY.

>> THE UNIQUE THING IS A LOT OF JEWISH AMERICANS ARE CITIZENS OF BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL BECAUSE OF A LAW THAT WAS PASSED SOON AFTER THE STATE OF ISRAEL WAS FOUNDED.

SORT OF A LOYALTY, SHOW SUPPORT FOR THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH THIS PROPOSED LAW, RIGHT, ANDREW?

>> YEAH.

I CERTAINLY AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THE ISRAELI AMERICAN COMMUNITY BUT A FRIEND OF MINE'S WIFE IS -- I WOULD SAY SHE'S PROBABLY A REPUBLICAN VOTER AND SHE DIDN'T LOVE THIS PROPOSAL WHEN SHE HEARD ABOUT IT.

SHE DIDN'T REALIZE IT CAME FROM OHIO.

THE SENATOR WANTED THIS.

OH, YEAH, THAT'S OUR SENATOR WHO WANTS THIS.

>> IN ALL REALITY, THE PEOPLE THAT I SEE TODAY SEEKING A SECOND NATIONALITY, A SECOND CITIZENSHIP, ARE RETIREES THAT WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR IS AN INEXPENSIVE PLACE TO LIVE AFFORDABLY AND OF COURSE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR HEALTH PLAN, WHETHER IT BE IN PORTUGAL OR SPAIN OR ITALY --MY WIFE'S LOOKED INTO THAT.

THEN IT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU TO GO AHEAD AND APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP.

SO IT'S AN ECONOMIC THING.

IT'S NOT --AT AGE 76 YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PUT ON A UNIFORM AND GO FIGHT FOR THE ITALIAN ARMY.

>> PUTTING ASIDE THE POLICY ARGUMENT IF THIS BECAME A POPULAR VOTE IT WOULD PASS 80-20 IN THIS COUNTRY.

MOST PEOPLE THINK IF YOU WANT TO BE IN AMERICA PICK AMERICA.

>> WILL MORENO FIGHT FOR THIS GIVEN HE DIDN'T KNOW MELANIA IS A DUAL -- >> HE NEEDS 60 VOTES IN THE SENATE.

IF HE CAN GET 60 VOTES IN THE SENATE OFF WE GO.

>> TELL US THE STORY WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO CUBA, JOE.

>> TO THE DAY I LANDED AND SHOWED MY PASSPORT TO A VERY HANDSOME AFRO-CUBAN SECURITY OFFICER, VERY TALL.

AND HE SAID OH, WE DON'T SEE MANY PEOPLE OF YOUR GENERATION COMING IN.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN GONE?

AND HE SAYS, WELL, IT'S 50 YEARS TO THE DAY.

HE BENT OVER, THIS VERY TALL MAN, BENT OVER AND EMBRACED ME AND SAID WELCOME HOME, BROTHER.

AND IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCES I'VE EVER HAD IN MY LIFE.

GOD BLESS HIM.

>> GREAT STORY, JOE.

>> WITH THAT TIME NOW FOR OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

MARK WEAVER.

>> SPEAKING OF STORIES, JULY IS THE 250th ANNIVERSARY OF AMERICA.

WHICH IS WHY I WROTE A CHILDREN'S BOOK.

"GOD BLESS AMERICA 250 YEARS STRONG. "

IT TELLS THE STORY OF AMERICA FROM THE PILGRIMS TO THE DECLARATION TO MARTIN LUTHER KING'S SPEECH ON THE MALL.

AND I HOPE PEOPLE ENJOY IT.

GOD BLESS AMERICA 250 YEARS STRONG.

>> GOD BLESS YOU FOR WRITING IT.

TODAY MY THOUGHTS ARE WITH COLUMBUS'S AND CENTRAL OHIO'S SOMALI COMMUNITY.

SECOND LARGEST COMMUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

ONLY TO THOSE IN MINNESOTA.

RECENT UNFAIR AND CRUEL COMMENTS FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IDENTIFY THAT COMMUNITY AS GARBAGE, DECLARING THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN THIS COUNTRY.

SO THE TIME HAS COME I THINK THAT FOR LOCAL LEADERS TO SERIOUSLY CONSIDER APPROPRIATE MEASURES TO PROTECT THAT COMMUNITY FROM BAD ACTORS AS WELL AS FROM WHATEVER FEDERAL AGENCIES MAY SEEK TO CARRY OUT THE PRESIDENT'S MISGUIDED VIEWS.

>> ANDREW.

>> SO THIS WEEK THE OHIO LEGISLATURE, THE SENATE GAVE FINAL APPROVAL TO A BILL THAT WHILE IT CRACKS DOWN ON SOME, YOU KNOW -- IT RESTRICTS MARIJUANA POLICIES IN SOME REGARDS IT DOES IN A WHOLE KEEP THEM IN PLACE.

THE DAY AFTER THAT THERE WAS A HEARING ON IBOGAIN, A PSYCHEDELIC DRUG THAT MAY HAVE POTENTIAL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES.

THE FACT THAT THEY ESSENTIALLY UPHELD MARIJUANA POLICY, THEY'RE LOOKING AT PSYCHEDELICS, IT WAS AN INTERESTING WEEK FOR THE STATE HOUSE.

>> WHACK-A-MOLE, WHICH DRUG DO WE GO AFTER NEXT.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

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HAVE A GOOD WEEK.