>>> THE VOTES FOR' ROLE IN THE ABORTION ISSUE.

>>> THE VOTERS' ROLE IN THE ABORTION ISSUE.

JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, OSU POLITICAL SCIENTIST.

JESSE BALMER, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

A WEEK FAST DRAMATIC LEAK OF A DRAFT SUPREME COURT RULING THAT WOULD OVERTURN ROE v. WADE, ACTIVISTS ON BOTH SIDES ARE MOBILIZING.

OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST PROMISES TO MOVE QUICKLY TO ENFORCE THE HEARTBEAT LAW IF THE COURT OVERTURNS ROE.

THAT LAW WOULD BAN ABORTION AFTER THE DETECTION OF CARDIAC ACTIVITY IS ON HOLD RIGHT NOW.

ON THE OTHER SIDE, FOUR WOMEN STATE LAWMAKERS ARE DRAFTING A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE OHIO CONSTITUTION THAT WOULD GUARANTEE A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO AN ABORTION AS WELL AS ANY FORM OF CONTRACEPTION.

SUCH A MOVE LIKELY WOULD REQUIRE A LENGTHY EFFORT TO COLLECT SIGNATURES AND WIN VOTER APPROVAL.

AND OHIOANS SEEM TO SUPPORT ABORTION RIGHTS.

A QUINNIPIAC POLL FOUND 51% SUPPORT ROE WHILE 32% OPPOSITE IT.

IF THE COURT OVERTURNS ROE AND YOU SEE THAT ONLY 30% TO 32% OF OHIOANS AND AMERICANS SUPPORT DOING AWAY WITH ROE, HOW DOES YOUR GROUP OHIO RIGHT TO LIFE AND OTHER ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS MOVE FORWARD?

>> WE WOULD WELCOME THIS DEBATE IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE, MIKE, AND WE'D LOVE IT TO GO TO THE BALLOT BECAUSE THAT INITIATIVE YOU JUST SPOKE OF WOULD ALLOW FOR AN ABORTION UP TO THE NINTH MONTH.

>> THEY SAID THEY WOULD MIMIC -- THEY HAVEN'T DRAFTED IT, BUT THEY WOULD SAY THERE WOULD BE VIABILITY STANDARDS SAME AS NOW.

>> RESPECTFULLY, WHAT ROE SAYS IS STATES CAN LIMIT ABORTION AFTER VIABILITY.

BUT WHAT ROE SAYS IS A WOMAN CAN HAVE AN ABORTION UP TO THE NINTH MONTH.

WE WILL WIN 70/30 ON THAT.

WHAT THEY WON'T DO IS PUT RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE PLANT PARENTHOOD DOESN'T WANT RESTRICTIONS.

>> WHAT DOES THIS DO, THIS DECISION?

>> I DON'T QUITE AGREE THEY'RE STUPID TO MAKE IT THAT SWEEPING.

BUT YOU NOW HAVE THE QUESTION WILL THE HEARTBEAT BILL BE SUFFICIENT FOR MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY?

IF YOU LOOK AND OHIO AND NATIONALLY, THERE ARE SO MANY PROPOSALS FOR THE POST-ROE v. WADE ERA, INCLUDING SOME THAT SAY NO ABORTIONS WHATSOEVER.

NO EXEMPTIONS FOR RAPE, INCEST, OR THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER.

CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR WOMEN WHO GET AN ABORTION AND DOCTORS WHO PERFORM ONE.

SO THE QUESTION WOULD BE, IF ROE v. WADE IS, IN FACT, REPEALED OR OVERTURNED, WILL WE BE SIMPLY HAVING THE HEARTBEAT BILL AS THE OPERATIVE BILL?

OR WILL YOU HAVE MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL SIMPLY.

>> THERE WAS DEBATE OVER THE TRIGGER BILL BEFORE THIS LEAK CAME OUT.

THERE WAS A HEARING ON IT.

WHERE DO WE STAND ON THAT IN THE STATE HOUSE?

THE HEARTBEAT BILL HAS BEEN PASSED, BUT IS A STAY IN THE FEDERAL COURTS.

BUT THE TRIGGER LAW, TRIGGER BILL THAT WOULD MAKE ABORTION ILLEGAL AS SOON AS ROE IS OVERTURNED, HAS BEEN BEEN STALLED?

>> NO.

I THINK IT'S MOVING FORWARD.

WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS TIME LINE HERE.

SO THE HEARTBEAT BILL, WHICH WOULD BE ON ABORTION AS EARLY AS SIX WEEKS INTO PREGNANCY WOULD POTENTIALLY TAKE EFFECT PRETTY IMMEDIATELY AFTER A DECISION FROM THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, WHEREAS THESE TRIGGER BANS, WHICH WOULD BE TRIGGERED BY A U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION.

REPUBLICANS ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH VOTES TO HAVE THIS TAKE EFFECT RIGHT AWAY.

AND SO MOST BILLS TAKE EFFECT 90 DAYS AFTER THEY'RE SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR, ET CETERA.

SO YOU COULD FIND YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE OHIO HAS A SIX-WEEK BAN FOR A PERIOD OF MONTHS AND THEN A TOTAL BAN AFTER THAT.

>> I WANT TO WAIT UNTIL THE RULING COMES OUT EVEN THOUGH IT'S FIVE, SIX WEEKS AWAY AT THE LATEST.

WE'LL KNOW FOR SURE IF THIS IS THE ACTUAL OPINION OF THE COURT OR IF IT'S IN BETWEEN.

SHOULDN'T LAWMAKERS WAIT TO SEE WHAT THE DECISION IS AND THEN DRAFT LEGISLATION AFTER THAT?

>> THE LEGISLATION IS DRAFTED AND WE'RE GOING TO PUT THIS LAW IN THE BOOKS UNTIL ROE IS OVERTURNED.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF A DECISION COMES OUT ONE DAY, FIVE DAYS, OR FIVE WEEKS FROM NOW.

WE MAY PASS IT AND NOT GO INTO EFFECT.

WHY NOT PASS IT NOW AND BE READY FROM A PRO-LIFE PERSPECTIVE, OF COURSE.

>> PROFESSOR, WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THIS DEBATE IF IT DOES GO TO THE LEGISLATURE, GOES TO THE VOTERS AT SOME POINT?

HOW DOES IT CHANGE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT HEIGHTENS THE ISSUE AND IT BECOMES REAL, ESPECIALLY ON THE PRO-LIFE SIDE.

IT DOES CHANGE.

I MEAN, IT PROBABLY DEPENDS ON HOW THE REPUBLICANS RESPOND TO THIS.

AND AGAIN, IF THEY REALLY GO TO THE MOST EXTREME VERSION OF A TRIGGER BILL THAT REALLY PENALIZES WOMEN AND DOCTORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ACTUALLY HAS SOME POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES THAT PROBABLY HELP THE DEMOCRATS AMONG, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, SUBURBAN WOMEN.

IF THEY LET THE DECISION UNFOLD AND THEN IT'S A HEARTBEAT BILL TAKING EFFECT OR WHATEVER, AND THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE THIS YEAR, THEY WILL NOT FURTHER HEIGHTEN THE TENSIONS, AND THEN WE'LL BE LIVING WITH AN ABORTION BAN, BUT NOT ABORTION TOTALLY ABOLISHED.

>> MIKE, HOW DO YOU -- SHOULD THERE BE A TOTAL BAN WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS?

IS THAT WHAT OHIO RIGHT TO LIFE IS PUSHING FOR?

>> CERTAINLY NOT.

WE BELIEVE SAVING THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER IS PARAMOUNT.

>> NO EXCEPTION FOR RAPE OR INCEST?

>> WE BELIEVE LIFE IS VIABLE AND YOU HAVE AN INHERENT RIGHT TO LIVE YOUR LIFE REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU COME INTO THIS WORLD.

THE TRIGGER BILL DOESN'T PENALIZE BIRTH MOTHERS AND HOLDS DOCTORS TO A STANDARD.

>> WHY NOT HOLD WOMEN RESPONSIBLE?

>> IN THE 45 YEARS WE'VE NEVER SUPPORTED LEGISLATION THAT WOULD DO THAT.

THAT'S THE WRONG THING I'M TRYING TO DO IF YOU BELIEVE ABORTION IS MURDER AND THE WOMAN CHOOSES TO HAVE AN ABORTION, IS SHE NOT COMPLICIT?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> IT'S NOT A POLITICAL DECISION?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> LAWMAKERS, THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURE.

ARE THEY EAGER TO HAVE THIS RULING OR IS IT A BIT OF DREAD THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS FOR THEM DOWN THE ROAD?

TALKING ABOUT GOVERNOR DIVINE.

IS THERE UNCERTAINTY THERE?

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT GOVERNOR DIVINE, THIS IS MAYBE HIS MOST CONSISTENT ISSUE ACROSS HIS POLITICAL CAREER.

I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE CAN TRY TO RUN TO THE RIGHT OF HIM ON FIREARMS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THIS HAS AS YOU BEEN AN ISSUE.

HE SIGNED THE HEARTBEAT BILL WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN HIS PREDECESSOR WAS NOT INTERESTED IN THAT.

AND SO I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE WILLING TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

I THINK SO THEY HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE, SO THEY CERTAINLY HAVE THE VOTES TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION.

BUT AGAIN, BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THIS RIGHT AWAY.

WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A BALLOT INITIATIVE, IT'S GOING TO BE A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION IN THE COMING ELECTIONS, BUT BOTH THE RIGHT AND LEFT COULD BE ENERGIZED BY THAT.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF TALK HOW DEMOCRATS CAN USE THIS ISSUE, BUT REPUBLICANS HAVE CONSISTENTLY USED THIS ISSUE.

>> I THINK REPUBLICANS DO NOT WANT SOME OF THEIR MORE EXTREME MEMBERS TO BE TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T LIKE THE HEARTBEAT BILL, IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

I WANT TO INTRODUCE SOME LEGISLATION PRIOR TO THE ELECTION.

IT WON'T GO ANYWHERE BEFORE THE ELECTION, BUT THAT WILL CERTAINLY ENERGIZE THE DEMOCRATS SAYING OH, MY GOODNESS, THE HEARTBEAT BILL WE DON'T LIKE, BUT, IN FACT, NOW THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT A TOTAL BAN.

YOU LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY AND, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS SORT OF DISSEMINATE ACROSS STATE BOUNDARIES OR WHATEVER.

SO I THINK THE REPUBLICANS WOULD RATHER KEEP THIS -- LET THE COURT MAKE ITS DECISION.

WE HAVE A PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN EFFECT, BUT YOU GOT SOME MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHO ARE TO THE RIGHT OF THE RIGHT OF THE RIGHT.

>> MIKE, IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OHIO RIGHT TO LIFE AND FOLKS LIKE YOURSELF WHO WANT A MORE TOTAL BAN?

>> OUR GOAL, OUR MISSION STATEMENT IS TO PROTECT INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE FROM CONCEPTION TO NATURAL DEATH AND WE'LL ADVOCATE FOR THAT WHETHER THE COURT RULES IN OUR FAVOR OR NOT.

WE WANT TO WORK WITH IT.

>> DOES IT MOBILIZE CONSERVATIVES AS MUCH AS IT DID WHEN ROE WAS ON THE BOOKS AND THE OVERTURNING WAS NOT FORESEEN OR IN THE NEAR FUTURE?

>> I BELIEVE SO.

GOD, GUNS, AND BABIES THEY SAY IN REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES.

>> BUT IN GENERAL -- >> IN GENERAL TOO.

IF YOU WANT TO RUN STATEWIDE OR LOCALLY AND AS A REPUBLICAN, YOU NEED TO BE RIGHT ON THOSE ISSUES.

>> IF YOU ASK VOTERS WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT IN THEIR LIST OF ISSUES, ABORTION DOESN'T RANK VERY HIGH, AT LEAST BEFORE THIS DECISION.

DOES THAT CHANGE?

>> IT COULD GO UP A LITTLE HIGHER, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE MOST SALIENT ISSUE.

IF, IN FACT, YOU HAD, LET'S SAY, A BILL THAT WOULD PROPOSE NO EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE AND INCEST, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLLING ON THAT, MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT'S SO HARSH ON WOMEN, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE CASE OF A 13-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO HAS BEEN A VICTIM OF INCEST AND IS NOW PREGNANT AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY THAT SHE'S CARRYING A LIFE, THAT LIFE DESERVES TO COME TO TERM.

MOST PEOPLE SAY, WAIT A SECOND, THAT'S TOO HARSH.

SO THAT COULD ENERGIZE PEOPLE.

>> MICKEY ANTONIO, STATE SENATOR, I ASKED HER ON OUR PODCAST THIS WEEK IS THERE ANY ROOM FOR COMPROMISE?

YOU LOOK AT EUROPE AND THEY HAVE ABORTION BANS AFTER, SAY, 12 WEEKS, UP TO 14 WEEKS.

IS THERE ANY ROOM WHERE THIS COULD BE SETTLED WITH -- POLITICALLY BETWEEN ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTERS AND ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS?

OR IS IT ALL OR NOTHING FOR YOU FOLKS?

>> I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ROOM FOR COMPROMISE BECAUSE WHAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD WANTS IS ACCESS SO ABORTION UP TO THE NINTH MONTH OF PREGNANCY AND WE WON'T DO THAT.

THERE'S NO MIDDLE GROUND.

>> THE FIGHT BETWEEN THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND THE OHIO SUPREME COURT COULD BE COMING TO A HEAD THIS WEEK.

THE COURT ORDERED THE COMMISSION TO EXPLAIN WHY IT SHOULD NOT BE HELD IN CONTEMPT FOR RESUBMITTING A PREVIOUSLY REJECTED STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT MAP.

REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION RESPONDED THEY SHOULD NOT BE HELD IN CONTEMPT BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPLYING WITH A FEDERAL COURT AND IT WOULD VIOLATE THE SEPARATION OF POWERS DOCTRINE.

FAIR DISTRICT ADVOCATES CALL ON THE SUPREME COURT TO ISSUE THOSE CONTEMPT CHARGES.

JESSE BALMER, WHERE DO WE STAND ON THIS RIGHT NOW?

WE'RE WAITING TO SEE IF THE COURT WILL TAKE THAT EXTRA STEP, ISSUE CONTEMPT CHARGES.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN -- I THINK THIS IS THE THIRD ATTEMPT TO HOLD THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION OR AT LEAST SOME OF ITS MEMBERS IN CONTEMPT OF COURT.

ONCE WAS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TURN IN THE MAP ON TIME.

THIS TIME IT'S BECAUSE THEY TURNED IN THE SAME MAP THAT HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN SUBMITTED AND THAT THE OHIO SUPREME COURT HAS ALREADY RULED IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

BUT AS YOU SAID, AT LEAST TWO OF THE THREE JUDGES ON THIS FEDERAL PANEL SAY, YOU KNOW, LIKE, THIS IS THE BEST WE'RE GOING TO DO GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND SO IT'LL BE INTERESTING WHETHER THE OHIO SUPREME COURT TAKES THAT NEXT STEP.

THEY HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY.

I ALSO THINK THERE WOULD BE POLITICAL BLOWBACK ON THE COURT IF THEY WERE TO TAKE THAT STEP, SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> POLITICAL BLOWBACK, THE SWING VOTE WILL DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO DO THIS, WE THINK.

SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

HER TERM IS UP AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

POLITICALLY SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO LOSE.

WHY NOT GO TO THE MAT ON THIS?

>> AS A LAWYER I WANT TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE BY THE COURT, OF COURSE.

FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE, I'M NOT A MEMBER OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, BUT YOU HEARD THE WORDS, THE "I" WORD.

I DON'T KNOW.

WE DON'T NEED TO DO ANY OF THIS.

AS JESSE SAID, THEY'VE TRIED THIS MULTIPLE TIMES AND THE COURT HAS SAID NO ON CONTEMPT CHARGES.

LOOK, WE HAVE A MAY 28th DAY.

IF THEY DON'T GET A MAP, WE'LL HAVE A MAP ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL COURT.

LET'S MOVE ON AND HAVE AN ELECTION.

>> THE ARGUMENT IS JUDICIAL BRANCH FILES CONTEMPT CHARGES, THAT CROSSES THE LINE OF SEPARATION OF POWERS, YET YOU HAVE THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OPENLY DEFYING THE THIRD BRANCH.

SO WHO'S RIGHT HERE?

>> I THINK, ACTUALLY, O'CONNOR AND THE COURTS ARE CORRECT BUT IS A CONTEMPT RULING THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE?

I USE THE WORD CONTEMPT IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND MAKE A MORE POLITICAL STATEMENT THAT, IN FACT, THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION HAVE DEMONSTRATED CONTEMPT FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF OHIO AND FOR THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT WERE PASSED.

AND SO THEY ALL ALONG HAVE BEEN SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THIS.

THEY SUBMITTED PLANS THEY ADMITTED AT THE OUTSET WERE NOT GOING TO PAST MUSTER.

SO I LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, OKAY, THE DEMOCRATS IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS, THEY'LL MAKE IT A POLITICAL ISSUE AND SAY THAT -- IN FACT, THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS, SOME OF WHOM ARE ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER FAILED THE VOTERS AND CITIZENS OF OHIO.

>> IT'S NOT AN ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE THIS FEDERAL COURT INDICATED THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT BUT HAVEN'T RULED.

IS THERE THINKING THAT THERE'S A CHANCE THIS MIGHT GET PUSHED OUT FURTHER?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU NEVER KNOW UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY KNOW AND HAVE THE DECISION IN FRONT OF YOU.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO GUESS WHAT THIS THREE-JUDGE PANEL IS GOING TO DO, BUT THEY SET THIS PARTICULAR DATE BECAUSE THEY SAID THIS IS THE LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT TO PICK A MAP AND THIS IS THE LAST POSSIBLE MAP THAT WE CAN PICK IN ORDER TO HOLD A PRIMARY ON AUGUST 2nd AND AUGUST 2nd PRIMARY IS NECESSARY TO HOLD A GENERAL ELECTION ON NOVEMBER 2nd.

JUST TIME LINE WISE I THINK IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO IMPOSE THESE THIRD MAPS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE FEDERAL JUDGES HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION ESSENTIALLY DID NOTHING TO TRY TO DRAFT A NEW MAP GIVEN 22 DAYS TO DO SO.

WE'LL SEE IF THEY HAVE ANY COMMENTARY ON THAT.

>> I LOOK AT THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE AND IT SAYS POSSIBLE SO EVEN HE'S NOT COMPLETELY SURE.

WHY CAN'T IT BE AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER 6th?

>> DURING THE COURT HEARINGS, THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE SAID FOR THE 88 COUNTY BOARD SELECTIONS, BECAUSE IT'S A BOTTOM-UP STATE, THEY NEED THIS RUN AWAY OF TIME TO BE PREPARED.

MOST OF THEM -- >> FOR AUGUST 2nd?

>> FOR AUGUST 2nd.

I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF HIM, BUT HIS OFFICE SAID THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS IS TELLING HIM.

>> YOU MADE THIS POINT THAT THE THREE-JUDGE FEDERAL PANEL BASICALLY SAID USE THE TIME AVAILABLE, GO BACK TO WORK, AND AGAIN, THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION SAID TO THE PANEL WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING, WE'RE JUST GOING TO SIT HERE AND LET THE CLOCK RUN OUT.

>> THEY ALSO SAID IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING, WE'LL TAKE THIS MAP.

>> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THEY'LL CHANGE ANYTHING, BUT I THINK THEY COULD BE ANNOYED.

THEY WERE TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND -- >> A LOT OF ANNOYING PEOPLE IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> CANDIDATES WHO SURVIVED LAST WEEK'S PRIMARY ARE NOW FOCUSED ON NOVEMBER'S GENERAL ELECTION.

GOVERNOR DIVINE WILL TRY TO HEAL THE DIVISIONS IN HIS PARTY AND WIN BACK VOTERS WHO SUPPORTED HIS RIVAL.

DAN WHALEY LOOKS TO BOOST HER NAME I.D.

AND CONVINCE VOTERS TO REJECT DIVINE AFTER ONE TERM.

JD VANCE WILL HAVE TO DEFEND CLAIMS HE'S BEEN AWAY FROM OHIO FOR TOO LONG.

TIM RYAN LOVE TO COUNTERCLAIM HE'S BEEN OHIO POLITICS FOR TOO LONG.

AND THERE ARE RACES FOR HOUSE SUPREME COURT AND CONGRESS AND STATE LEGISLATURE.

IS IT WORSE TO BE A CARPET BAGGER OR IS IT WORSE TO BE A LIFELONG POLITICIAN?

>> THE VOTERS CARE AND IT DEPENDS ON THE CAMPAIGN AND HOW SKILLFULLY YOU CAN MAKE THAT MESSAGE APPLY.

IN TIM RYAN'S CASE, THEY'LL CALL HIM A LIFELONG POLITICIAN AND HE'LL RESPOND I'VE BEEN A LIFELONG FIGHTER FOR THE WORKING CLASS.

IT'S FACTUALLY ACCURATE HE'S BEEN IN POLITICS FOR A LONG TIME AND TO SAY THAT JD VANCE IS NOT EXACTLY A LONG-TERM OHIOAN, AND IT'LL BE UP TO THE DEMOCRATS TO SAY WHAT IS IT ABOUT HIM THAT PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE HE'S NOT ONE OF US OR WHATEVER.

CARPET BAGGER OFTENTIMES WORKS, BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT.

>> LOOKING BACK FROM HISTORY, U.S. SENATE VOTERS TEND NOT TO CARE ABOUT CARPET BAGGERS.

I'M THINKING OF MITT ROMNEY IN UTAH, GREW UP IN MICHIGAN, SERVED IN MASSACHUSETTS.

HILLARY CLINTON WON A SENATE SEAT IN NEW YORK.

ALL THE WAY BACK TO ROBERT KENNEDY.

CARPET BAGGER DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, JESSE.

>> YEAH, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO HAVE BOTH JD VANCE AND DIVINE DIVINE ON THE SAME REPUBLICAN TICKET BECAUSE IF YOU'RE MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT VANCE HASN'T BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH AND THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT DIVINE DIVINE HAS BEEN HERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME, BUT THAT'S A GOOD THING, SO IT CONSULTS BOTH WAYS.

>> IF YOU ATTACK TIM RYAN FOR BEING A LIFELONG POLITICIAN, WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT MIKE DeWINE?

>> BRUSHING OFF THE LABEL OF A TRUMP DEMOCRAT, I WOULDN'T SAY HE'S EMBRACING TRUMP BUT EMBRACING SOME OF TRUMP'S ATTITUDE WHEN IT COMES TO ECONOMIC ISSUES.

IS THAT WISE FOR HIM?

>> IT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE HE'S A SITTING MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

WHEN HE PUTS ON THESE YOUTUBE VIDEOS, PEOPLE ARE LIKE, YOU'RE IN CONGRESS, WHY AREN'T YOU DOING IT?

DO SOMETHING, YOU'RE A SITTING MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

I'M OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WHEN I STARTED IN 2008, I ENDORSED HIM BECAUSE HE USED TO BE PRO-LIFE.

NOW HE CLAIMS TO BE 100% PRO-CHOICE.

HE HAS A LOT OF THINGS TO ANSWER TO VOTERS, EMS HARD-CORE DEMOCRAT VOTERS.

>> THE PEOPLE RUNNING AS INCUMBENTS, MEMBERS OF CONGRESS RUNNING AGAINST THE CONGRESS, IS ACTUALLY A VERY COMMON THING AND OFTENTIMES IT WORKS.

YOU CAN SAY I'VE BEEN THERE, I SEE WHAT THE DYSFUNCTIONS ARE.

>> HE'S CHALLENGING NANCY PELOSI, SO IT'S HARDER TO LINK HIM TO NANCY PELOSI?

>> I THINK VOTERS FORGOT WHAT HAPPENED TWO WEEKS AGO.

>> I GUESS THE CAMPAIGNS ARE REORGANIZING AND TRYING TO BOOST THEIR FUNDRAISING?

>> YEAH SO IT'S A GOOD IDEA AFTER YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE.

YEAH, I THINK WE GO INTO THIS WITH INCUMBENT GOVERNORS WITH NAME RECOGNITION AND POLITICAL EXPERIENCE HAVING THE EDGE IN THIS RACE.

NAN WHALEY IS GOING TO TRY TO SAY TO VOTERS THAT THEY NEED SOMEONE NEW.

SO THIS WHOLE RACE WILL BE DeWINE'S RECORD, WHETHER YOU'RE FOR IT OR AGAINST IT.

>> MIKE DeWINE IF HE WERE TO PICK ONE ISSUE, WHAT WOULD IT BE?

>> JOB, THE BIG INTEL.

HE CONTINUED TO SPIKE THE FOOTBALL FOR THE LEADERSHIP HE PROVIDED ON THAT AND WHERE WE WERE AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

LOW UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS, HE'S DOING A GREAT JOB.

>> FOR NAN WHALEY, WHAT ISSUE WOULD SHE RUN ON?

>> I THINK SHE WOULD TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR CHANGE BECAUSE WE REALLY HAVE HAD REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP THAT HAS BEEN -- AND THEN SHE'LL LIST SOME ISSUES HERE.

SHE'LL TALK ABOUT REDISTRICTING BUT WON'T MAKE THAT NUMBER ONE.

SHE'LL TALK ABOUT ABORTION, BUT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO MAKE IN A NUMBER ONE EITHER BECAUSE WHAT NAN REALLY NEEDS TO DO IS TO REALLY PICK UP SOME VOTERS WHO DON'T LIKE MIKE DeWINE.

BUT THEY TEND TO BE MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN MIKE DeWINE.

IF SHE RUNS TO THE LEFT, SHE'LL SCARE THEM BACK INTO VOTING FOR MIKE DeWINE.

BUT I THINK THERE ARE WAYS THAT SHE CAN MAKE THE POINT, LOOK, YOU'RE FRUSTRATED WITH HIM, I'M FRUSTRATED WITH HIM.

WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE ON ISSUES, BUT I THINK WE CAN AGREE THAT IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE.

THEN SHE HAS TO FLESH THAT IN AS TO WHY IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE.

>> THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED.

LEGAL RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA WILL NOT BE ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT AFTER SUPPORTERS COLLECTED A FIRST SET OF SIGNATURES.

LAWMAKERS HAVE HAD NEARLY FOUR MONTHS TO PASS THE PROPOSAL AS WRITTEN.

IT LOOKED LIKE LAWMAKERS WERE GOING TO SAY NO AND SUPPORTERS SAID THEY WERE READY TO COLLECT MORE SIGNATURES TO GET IT ON THE FALL BALLOT.

BUT THERE WAS A DISPUTE OVER THE SIGNATURE DEADLINE AND NOW SUPPORTERS OF THE PROPOSAL AND LAWMAKERS HAVE AGREED TO SETTLE THAT LAWSUIT AND WAIT UNTIL 2023.

JESSE, YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS ON FRIDAY.

A BIT OF A SURPRISE.

WHAT HAPPENED?

>> SO THERE WAS THIS LAWSUIT THAT WAS AN OPEN QUESTION ABOUT HOW IT WAS GOING TO BE RESOLVED.

WE'RE ALSO GETTING CLOSER TO WIN A LARGE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES NEEDED TO BE COLLECTED.

SO I THINK IT WAS INCREASINGLY UNLIKELY THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE ON THE 2022 BALLOT.

NOW WE OFFICIALLY KNOW THE ANSWER AND HAVING IT IN 2023, THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE OHIO GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO PICK THIS UP, WHICH THEY'RE UNLIKELY TO DO.

I THINK COMPLETELY UNLIKELY TO DO.

AND THEN WHETHER IT WOULD GO ONTO THE BALLOT IN 2023.

>> WHAT DOES IT DO FOR THE CHANCES OF ITS PASSAGE IN AN ODD ELECTION YEAR?

>> IT WOULD BE A LOW TURNOUT YEAR.

I DON'T THINK IT HELPS.

IF YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE, FOR EXAMPLE, AN AGE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF SUPPORT FOR THIS, IF YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A POLITICAL DIFFERENCE, PARTISAN DIFFERENCE OR WHATEVER, I THINK THEY'RE STRONGER IN AN EVEN YEAR.

>> IS THIS A SIGNAL, MIKE, EXPLANATION ON MY PART, MEDICAL MARIJUANA LOOKED LIKE IT WAS GOING TO WIN BUT THE LEGISLATURE DID THEIR OWN THING.

IS THIS A WAY FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO SAY, OKAY, RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA IS COMING, LET'S WORK OUT A COMPROMISE WITH THESE FOLKS?

>> WELL, BOTH OF MY FRIENDS BOTH SAID PUBLICLY TO THE MEDIA GAGGLES AND THE RESPECTIVE CHAMBERS HECK NO, WE ARE NOT PASSING LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA IN MY CHAMBER AND VICE VERSA IN THE OTHER CHAMBER, SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT AS LONG AS THEY'RE IN CHARGE.

WHAT WE MAY SEE HAPPEN -- IF WE HAVE A BALLOT INITIATIVE, I WELCOME IT BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WILL GET STRUCK DOWN.

I THINK THE VOTERS WANT LESS DRUGS.

WE BROKE FENTANYL RECORD DEATHS IN THE STATE AND COUNTRY.

DO WE NEED MORE DRUGS IN OHIO?

>> THE CONCERN WOULD BE IF THIS GROUP COMES BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN, DOTTED DO THEY ULTIMATELY WIN, JUST AS THE CASINO PEOPLE ULTIMATELY WON AFTER MANY DEFEATS?

IN HINDSIGHT, YOU WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD NEGOTIATED SOMETHING, THE STATE COULD HAVE GOTTEN A MUCH BETTER DEAL.

BUT DRUGS ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE CASINOS, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE CONCERN.

SO IF THEY EVER THINK THAT THERE'S A REAL CHANCE THAT IT WOULD PASS, THEN I THINK THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT SAY, OKAY, LET'S MAKE THIS AS PALATABLE AS POSSIBLE.

BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW THEY DON'T THINK IT COULD PASS.

>> IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME, THE CASINO ISSUE FINALLY PASSED IN AN ODD-YEAR ELECTION, 2015 OR 2013.

THERE WAS SOME OF THEM, I FORGET WHAT IT WAS.

>> AND IT WAS THE -- THEY MADE AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.

>> TIME FOR OUR OFF-THE-RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

>> ROE v. WADE WILL BE OVERTURNED.

THE OHIO RIGHT TO LIVE TRIGGER BILL WILL BE SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR AND IT'S GOING TO BE A RED WAVE ELECTION YEAR IN NOVEMBER 2022.

>> ALL RIGHT.

JESSE?

>> INTERESTING THING HAPPENING IN CONGRESS THIS WEEK.

JIM JORDAN IS SUBPOENAED BY THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE TO COME TALK TO THEM.

HE TOLD FOX NEWS THAT HE HASN'T EVEN SEEN THE SUBPOENA YET, SO WE'LL SEE.

>> REPORTERS, NOT JUST IN OHIO, BUT IN THE NATION, ARE BEGINNING TO LOOK AT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF DONALD TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT OF JD VANCE.

THEY DON'T BELIEVE THE FACE-VALUE EXPLANATION THAT THE EX-PRESIDENT GAVE ABOUT HE'S THE STRONGEST CANDIDATE AND DO BELIEVE THERE'S BEEN AN ARRANGEMENT WITH PETER THIEL.

IF THEY COME UP WITH SOMETHING, THAT TAINTS THE ENDORSEMENT.

>> HE INVESTED AT LEAST $15 MILLION IN THE PRIMARY.

LAST WEEK I MODERATED A PANEL AT THE OHIO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

THEY DID A POLL OF THE FOLKS WHO WERE THERE.

I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT IT SEEMED LIKE THIS CROWD LEANED A LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT, A LOT OF STATE HOUSE FOLKS THERE.

THEY ASKED THEM SHOULD MARIJUANA BE LEGALIZED, RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA?

AND 54% OF THAT CROWD SAID IT SHOULD BE LEGALIZED.

INTERESTING THERE.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE AND ON FACEBOOK.

YOU CAN CATCH OUR EPISODES ON DEMAND, WATCH IT WHENEVER YOU WANT AT WOSU.ORG AND IF YOU ARE A WOSU MEMBER, SUPPORTER, AND YOU HAVE PASSPORT, YOU CAN SEE "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THERE AS WELL.

FROM OUR CREW AT, WITHOSU AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

WOSU AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.