>> OHIO'S FIGHT AGAINST MEDICAID FRAUD.

>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

FOR WEEKS GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS FACED CRITICISM FROM HIS FELLOW REPUBLICANS OVER ALLEGATIONS OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD IN THE STATE'S MEDICAID SYSTEM.

IT STARTED WITH A REPORT IN THE CONSERVATIVE OUTLET "DAILY WIRE," WHICH ACCUSED HOME HEALTH AGENCIES OF FRAUDULENTLY BILLING THE SYSTEM THAT PAYS FOR HEALTHCARE FOR LOW INCOME AND DISABLED PEOPLE.

HOUSE SPEAKER MATT HUFFMAN SAID THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION WAS NOT DOING ENOUGH TO PREVENT FRAUD.

DeWINE RELEASED A LIST OF STEPS HE'S TAKING TO ADDRESS THE ALLEGATIONS.

THEY INCLUDE A MORATORIUM ON NEW HOME HEALTHCARE COMPANIES ACCEPTING MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENTS, ALSO USING ELECTRONIC MONITORING TO VERIFY HOME HEALTH CARE WORKERS VISITS, AND OTHER THINGS.

THIS WEEK THE NATION'S TOP MEDICARE AND MEDICAID OFFICIAL, DR.

MEHMET OZ VISITED OHIO.

HE DEFENDED DeWINE, BUT SAID OHIO NEEDS MORE SAFEGUARDS.

DO WE HAVE A BALLPARK IDEA OF HOW MUCH FRAUD IS OUT THERE?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

"THE DAILY WIRE" HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT MEDICAID FRAUD FOR MORE THAN A YEAR.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE THIS NEAT WRAPPED IN A BOW FIGURE.

I DON'T KNOW ANY POLITICIAN ON THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT IS DISPUTING SOME LEVEL OF FRAUD, LIKE THERE IS IN ANY OTHER PUBLIC BENEFITS SYSTEM, BUT I DON'T KNOW WE HAVE A PERFECT PICTURE ON WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE HERE.

>> THE ADMINISTRATION POINTS OUT THEY HAVE HAD MANY, MANY PROSECUTIONS.

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS UNCOVERED OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS.

>> PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THIS ISN'T JUST MEDICAID.

THERE IS A LOT OF OTHER THINGS DEALING WITH NURSING HOMES, COMPENSATION, SBA HOMES.

POST-COVID, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING CONGRESS, BOTH SIDES, WANT TO SHOVEL THE MONEY OUT SO QUICK THAT PEOPLE REALIZE ALL THIS FREE MONEY, THE RULES ARE LOOSE, SO DEFINITELY THERE IS MORE TO BE DONE.

ANOTHER PROBLEM ONE OF THE TOP STATE OFFICIAL TOLD ME IS A LOT OF TIMES THE LOCAL PROSECUTORS HERE IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, UNLESS IT IS MORE THAN $50,000, THEY DON'T PROSECUTING.

SO CLEARLY THERE IS MORE TO BE DONE AND A LOT OF CLEANING UP.

PART OF IT IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S FAULT BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT SO MANY DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, SO MANY DIFFERENT ROLES, AND THE LABOR DEPARTMENT.

HOW THEY HANDLE THINGS VERSUS HHS IS DIFFERENT.

IT IS A BIG PROBLEM , AND IT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP.

>> THE ISSUE INVOLVES A WAIVER THAT ALLOWS INDIVIDUALS TO CHARGE THE MEDICAID SYSTEM FOR HELP FOR FOLKS WHO WANT TO STAY IN THEIR HOME , LIKE HOUSEKEEPING.

YOU KNOW?

HOMEMAKING CARE AND PERSONAL CARE.

IT SEEMS LIKE THAT, THE INTENTION IS GOOD .

KEEPING PEOPLE IN THEIR HOME.

KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF EXPENSIVE NURSING HOME.

BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW IT COULD OPEN THE DOOR FOR FRAUD.

>> YEAH.

YOU HAVE GOT TO THINK ABOUT IT, TOO.

THIS IS GOING TO HURT TRUST IN THE SYSTEM.

MEDICAID.

FOLKS WHO ARE REALLY IN A VULNERABLE SITUATION.

I THINK ACCOUNTABILITY MATTERS.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRUST.

I THINK WHAT FOLKS WANT TO HEAR IS HOW WE KEEP FOLKS ACCOUNTABLE.

HOW WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW THE SENIOR FOLKS WERE DISABLED TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEIR DIGNITY WITHOUT COMPROMISING THE VALUE AND SO MUCH MORE PUNISHING THOSE SAME FOLKS, TOO.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE THIS DAILY WIRE STORY FOCUSED ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF COLUMBUS AND FRANKLIN COUNTY.

SORT OF FOLLOWS WHAT HAPPENED IN MINNESOTA WITH THE COMMUNITY THERE.

ARE THEY BEING UNFAIRLY TARGETED?

>> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING AND ALL STATES.

HOWEVER, THIS IS BEING TARGETED TO A CERTAIN POPULATION.

I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES.

LET'S PROSECUTE THE FRAUD.

MAKE SURE THE FOLKS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE ABLE TO LIVE IN SOME KIND OF DIGNITY, TOO.

>> THIS HAS BEEN, AN ISSUE IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

BOTH HAVE GOT TO PLAN DETAILS ON HOW THEY ARE GOING TO COMBAT FRAUD.

>> YEAH.

BOTH OF THEM HAVE TALKED DIFFERENT ISSUES.

WE HAVE CONCEPTS OF A PLAN BUT MAYBE NOT THAT SOLIDIFIED PLAN QUITE YET.

OF COURSE, WITH THE FOCUSING IN ON THE SOMALI IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS.

THERE WERE WIDESPREAD, AT TIMES, UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS OF DAY CARE FRAUD.

AGAIN, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAVE TAKEN A LOT OF THE BLAME HERE.

YOU HAVE HEARD REPUBLICANS SAY WE SHOULDN'T POINT FINGERS.

WE NEED TO FIX IT.

OF COURSE, THIS IS ALL HAPPENING UNDER A REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION AND REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN IN POWER FOR DECADES UNDER THIS STATE.

>> I DISAGREE.

THAT IS THE SPIN FROM THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

YOUR FORGET, DURING THE FOUR YEARS OF JOE BIDEN A LOT OF THESE RULES WERE WRITTEN OUT OF D. C. AS FAR AS WHAT YOU CAN DO AND WHAT YOU CAN DO.

ONE OF THE THINGS IMPORTANT NOW IS PEOPLE ARE REALIZING WE CAN DO SOME THINGS LIKE TENNESSEE ARE DOING WHERE IT GIVES INCENTIVE TO THE STATE TO RECAPTURE MORE OF THE STOLEN OR FRAUDULENT MONEY OR QUESTIONABLE MONEY BECAUSE SOME OF IT, THERE IS A REASON BUT MAYBE THE PROVIDERS ARE STRETCHING BECAUSE THIS ISN'T JUST ONE COMMUNITY.

THERE IS A WHOLE MEDICAL SYSTEM.

THE NURSING CARE SYSTEM.

THERE IS A LOT OF LEGAL THEFT.

THERE IS A LEGAL THEFT.

CLEARLY WHEN THERE IS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OHIO, IT NEEDS TO BE CLEARED OUT.

>> DISTANCING ITSELF FROM MIKE DeWINE?

>> A PLAN AND ACTUALLY DETAILED THE PLAN AS FAR AS HOW THEY WOULD CRACKDOWN IN THE FACT THAT DOCTOR OZ CAME HERE AND SEEMED SOMEWHAT FRIENDLY GIVING OHIO SOME TOOLS TO DEAL WITH IT AND RAMP THINGS UP.

THAT IS IMPORTANT.

>> I DO THINK, TOO, TO YOUR POINT, SARAH, REPUBLICANS POINTING FINGERS AT REPUBLICANS.

THIS IS THE ISSUE.

McAULEY ALSO CAME OUT AND POINTED THE FINGER RIGHT AT DeWINE.

THESE ARE FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN RUNNING THE STATE FOR DECADES AT THIS POINT AND VOTERS ARE GOING TO WONDER AND ASK, WHOSE FAULT AND WHO IS TO BLAME?

>> THIS IS A DISTRACTION FROM INFLATION AND HIGH GAS PRICES, ESPECIALLY TARGETING MINNESOTA.

WHICH IS DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR UP THERE WITH TIM WALZ.

EVEN BLAMING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

ALL BLAMING TIM WALZ UP THERE.

YOU KNOW?

FIVE DOLLAR A GALLON GAS.

AND POTATOES.

GROUND BEEF IS EXPENSIVE.

>> KEY ISSUE HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED.

AGAIN, THIS IS NOT $10 OR $12 MILLION.

THIS IS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS.

PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE SO MUCH OF THE STATE BUDGET IS MEDICAID.

IF YOU COULD TIGHTEN IT DOWN BY 10% OR 15%.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OHIO LAW EXEMPTS TECH COMPANIES FROM PAYING STATE SALES TAXES ON MATERIALS AND EQUIPMENT USED TO BUILD DATA CENTERS.

IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET, LAWMAKERS WANTED TO END THE TAX BREAK.

THEY VOTED TO DO THAT.

BUT GOVERNOR DeWINE VETOED THAT PROVISION SO THE BREAK CONTINUED.

LAST WEEK, SIGNAL OHIO REPORTED THAT TAX BREAK COST THE STATE ABOUT $1.

5 BILLION LAST YEAR.

THAT'S ELEVEN TIMES MORE THAN STATE OFFICIALS PREDICTED.

THIS WEEK GOVERNOR DeWINE TEMPORARILY PAUSED THE TAX BREAK.

A SPECIAL COMMITTEE OF LAWMAKERS CONTINUES ITS STUDY ON THE COST AND BENEFITS OF DATA CENTERS IN OHIO.

STANLEY GATES, THE ARGUMENT IS THESE DATA CENTERS BRING A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION JOBS AND SPILLOVER JOBS AFTER THEY ARE BUILT.

BUT $1.

5 BILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY.

>> AND SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT.

THAT IS A BIG OVERSIGHT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

AS WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PREVIOUS TOPIC, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THAT IS MONEY THAT COULD'VE GONE TOWARDS SCHOOLS.

WHERE IS THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAT TAXPAYER DOLLARS WENT TOWARDS AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE WE FIX THAT?

THIS HAS BECOME A KITCHEN TABLE ISSUE.

THERE IS ALREADY A PETITION GOING AROUND ABOUT DATA CENTERS AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO MAKE FOLKS THINK TWICE ABOUT THAT.

>> NOW, THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION , 2025 VERSUS '24.

>> WELL, THERE CLEARLY NEEDS TO BE SOME TIGHTENING BUT PEOPLE FORGET FACTORS.

36 OTHER STATES HAVE SIMILAR KIND OF SALES TAX EXEMPTIONS ON THE EQUIPMENT PUT IN THE CENTERS.

SO OHIO CAN TIGHTEN, SHOULD TIGHTEN.

THAT CAN ALSO GO BACK TO THE KASICH ADMINISTRATION.

SOME OF THE BIG FOUR INCLUDING AMAZON GOT THEIR EXEMPTION.

BUT IN SOME WAYS, THIS IS MONEY THAT IF WE DID NOT HAVE THE DATA CENTERS, THAT MONEY WOULD NOT HAVE COME IN ANYWAY.

THIS IS BECAUSE OF NEW THINGS COMING IN SO CLEARLY.

THERE IS TIGHTENING.

IT IS ALL PART OF THE DEBATE.

HOW DO WE TIGHTEN DOWN?

HOW DO WE KEEP OHIO COMPETITIVE?

JOBS?

>> GROWTH?

$100,000 TO $1.

6 BILLION IS A LOT.

>> WELL, THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION DID NOT POINT TO TOO MUCH THE FACT THAT DATA CENTER JOINT COMMITTEE THE LEGISLATOR HAS FORMED IS STUDYING THE ISSUE AND HE THINKS IT NEEDS TO BE PUT ON PAUSE WELL STUDY THAT ISSUE.

I SHOULD NOTE THAT GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS EXEMPTION.

LAWMAKERS TRY TO GET RID OF IT IN THE BUDGET LAST YEAR AND DeWINE VETOED THAT.

>> I'M NOT A LAWYER BUT HOW COULD HE SAY WERE NOT GOING TO GIVE THIS TAX BREAK FOR A MONTH OR TWO MONTHS.

>> SOME OF THE TAX BREAKS ARE ALREADY BAKED IN.

>> GENERALLY NEW.

>> IT IS SMALLER DATA CENTERS.

NOT YOUR BIG FOUR.

WE ALSO FORGET THE STATE OF OHIO LAST MONTH FOUND AN EXTRA $1.

2 BILLION THAT CAME IN BECAUSE INCOME TAX COLLECTIONS AND SALES TAX ARE HIGHER.

SO SOME OF THE DATA CENTERS ARE DRIVING MORE INCOME TAX COLLECTIONS BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION FIELD.

THOSE CONSTRUCTION ARE VERY PRO DATA CENTERS BECAUSE IT IS PROVIDING THOUSANDS OF JOBS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

>> THE COMPANIES THAT RECEIVED THE TAX BREAK INVESTED $27 MILLION IN OHIO LAST YEAR.

SO $27 BILLION FOR $1.

6 MILLION IN TAX BREAK.

THAT IS A PRETTY GOOD DEAL.

>> A PRETTY GOOD DEAL UNTIL YOU LOOK AT THE REST OF THE RECIPE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS BAKED IN.

UTILITY COSTS.

ALSO WATER.

THE LOCAL ASPECT OF THIS, TOO.

AND, NOW, SCHOOL'S FUNDING ARE ALSO BEING THREATENED.

THOSE ARE THINGS PEOPLE SHOULD CONTINUE TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT, TOO.

>> AND THERE ARE THINGS CALLED SPINOFF JOBS.

IT MIGHT BE THIS ONE CENTER MIGHT ONLY PRODUCE 75 FULL-TIME JOBS BUT CONSTANTLY YOU HAVE GOT IN AND OUT TRADESPEOPLE.

ELECTRICIANS.

OTHER EXPERTS COMING INTO DO INSTALLATIONS.

SO IT IS HARD TO GAUGE THE FULL IMPACT BUT IT IS DEFINITELY A LOT OF MONEY.

I WOULD RATHER HAVE A HOW PREPARED AND ON TRACK FOR THE 21st CENTURY THEN HOPING THE BIG AUTO PLANTS COME BACK WHICH ARE NOT GOING TO COME BACK THE WAY THEY USED TO.

>> THIS TAX BREAK HAS BEEN AROUND FOR ALMOST A DECADE.

FACILITIES HAVE BEEN COMING IN FOR YEARS.

YOU HEAR FROM FOLKS LIKE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER MIKE HUFFMAN.

WHY ARE THEY GETTING A TAX BREAK WHEN EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURING FACILITY THAT IS BUILDING IN OHIO IS NOT?

>> HOPEFULLY THEY WILL TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT SMARTLY SO YOU STILL GET THE JOBS, GET MORE MONEY, AND MAKE IT ALL WORK.

>> DEMOCRATS ARE RELUCTANT TO CRITICIZE THESE CENTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE UNION FOLKS BUILDING THEM AND MAINTAINING THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS.

THIS IS NOT REALLY A PARTISAN ISSUE.

RIGHT, STANLEY?

>> NO.

FOLKS HAVE BEEN ASKING THE QUESTION OVER THE PAST YEAR, ESPECIALLY AS THIS IS HAPPENING ACROSS STATE AND LOCALLY AGAIN.

THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE BY ANY MEANS.

PEOPLE NOW ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT NUMBERS LIKE THIS.

WE HAVE $1.

5 BILLION MISSED.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE WE ARE GIVING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BUT NOT A CORPORATE CHECK AT THE SAME TIME?

BLANK CHECK?

>> THE TELEVISION AD BATTLE IN OHIO'S U. S. SENATE RACE IS RAMPING UP.

BASED ON THE ADS IT LOOKS LIKE BOTH CAMPAIGNS ARE FISHING FOR WHAT ISSUES WILL RESONATE MOST WITH VOTERS.

JON HUSTED'S AD GOES AFTER BROWN FOR BEING WEAK ON THE BORDER, DRIVING UP THE COST OF LIVING, SUPPORTING BOYS IN GIRLS SPORTS, AND FOR ACCEPTING DONATIONS FROM JEFFREY EPSTEIN ASSOCIATES.

BROWN'S ADS GO AFTER HUSTED FOR NOT DOING ENOUGH TO LOWER PRICES.

AND FOR ACCEPTING MONEY FROM EPSTEIN ASSOCIATES AND FOR VOTING AGAINST THE RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN FILES.

HUSTED FIRST VOTED AGAINST RELEASING THE FILES IN SEPTEMBER, BUT THEN VOTED TO RELEASE THEM IN NOVEMBER AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP AGREED IT.

SO WHAT ISSUES ARE GOING TO MATTER THE MOST TO VOTERS IN THIS CAMPAIGN?

>> WELL, ULTIMATELY, IT IS THE ECONOMY.

THERE'S A FORMER GOVERNOR JIM RHODES IN OHIO WHO SLAMMED A WALL ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF RONALD REAGAN IN 1980 AND TOLD HIM IT IS ALL ABOUT WHAT GOES IN THE WALL AND OUT OF THE WALL.

SO ULTIMATELY IT WILL BE DONE ECONOMY.

THE DIFFICULT THING IS YOU HAVE GOT HUSTED WAS THE INCUMBENT THERE BUT THEN YOU HAVE GOT SHERROD BROWN , INCLUDING DURING THE BIDEN YEARS WHEN INFLATION WAS 20%.

I'M NOT SURE THE EPSTEIN CONNECTIONS, BOTH OF THEM HAVE GOTTEN MONEY FROM ASSOCIATES OF EPSTEIN AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE QUESTIONABLE.

BUT DOES THAT REALLY WORK?

RESEARCHING TO SEE HOW MUCH OF THE ECONOMY AND WHO HAS THE RIGHT ANSWERS?

>> ABIGAIL.

ASSOCIATES OF EPSTEIN?

>> THE SHERROD BROWN 'S ADS TALKING ABOUT IT AND TYING IT ALL IN.

BUT I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT IS GOING TO CONNECT THAT WELL.

LIKE SHERROD BROWN , HE NOT ONLY GOT LOTS OF MONEY, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, BUT ALSO GOTTEN MONEY FROM PEOPLE LIKE HARVEY WEINSTEIN WHO HAS ACTUALLY BEEN A CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER.

GUILT BY ASSOCIATION.

I'M NOT SURE IT WORKS EITHER WAY.

INTERESTED IN OTHER ISSUES RIGHT NOW.

>> I AGREE.

I THINK IT IS A GREAT START.

WHEN PEOPLE GO TO THE BALLOT, THE FIRST THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT IS HOW MY GOING TO PAY FOR MY GROCERIES, HOW AM I GOING TO GET TO WORK, AND WHAT IS MY HEALTHCARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE?

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC THAT MUCH.

>> SO WHY SEEING THE ADS?

JUST TRYING TO MUDDY UP THE OPPONENT?

DID THE FIRST TO BLOCK THE FILES.

THEN VOTED TO RELEASE THEM AFTER TRUMP SAID, OKAY, RELEASE THEM.

TRYING TO DEFLECT FROM THAT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, OHIO HAS SHIFTED REDDER AND REDDER.

OHIO IS A REPUBLICAN STATE.

DEMOCRATS TOOK NOTE THERE WERE FOLKS ON THE FAR RIGHT WHO DID BREAK WITH TRUMP ON THE EPSTEIN ISSUE.

THAT WAS MONTHS AGO AND OF COURSE A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN.

A LOT OF ISSUES HAVE RISEN TO THE TOP, NAMELY THE ECONOMY.

GAS PRICES ARE VERY HIGH BECAUSE OF THE WAR IN IRAN.

SO I KIND OF LOOK TO IT AS, YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS ALL WIN WITH ABORTION IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE OVERTURNING OF ROE.

THAT DIDN'T REALLY WORK THE LAST TIME THAT BROWN RAN.

I MEAN, I THINK IT IS TRYING TO THROW IT OUT THERE TO SEE WHAT OTHER THAN THE ECONOMY CAN WE MESSAGE ON.

>> AND SHERROD BROWN WAS A POWERFUL U. S. SENATOR.

SUPPORT COMMITTEES FOR FIVE AND HALF YEARS.

WHY DIDN'T HE PUSH MORE FOR RELEASE OF THE FILES THEN?

OF COURSE PART OF IT THOSE FILES ARE COMPLICATED AND THERE IS QUESTIONS WHENEVER YOU RELEASE ANY INVESTIGATIVE LAW- ENFORCEMENT THINGS.

WHAT IS TRUE?

WHAT IS RUMOR?

WHAT IS FACT IN THERE?

I THINK IT WILL ULTIMATELY GET BACK TO THE ECONOMY.

>> YOU THINK IT A BIT IRONIC SHERROD BROWN HAS SPENT 32 YEARS IN.

LABELS JON HUSTED A WASHINGTON INSIDER?

>> HE IS A WASHINGTON INSIDER.

I MEAN, YOU THINK ABOUT SOME OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS IT RELATES TO PENSIONS, LABOR, DRUG COSTS.

YES.

YOU WERE A POLITICAL INSIDER.

A WASHINGTON INSIDER.

THAT IS YOUR RECORD.

THIS RACES IN NOVEMBER.

>> I'M NOT SURE BEING A WASHINGTON INSIDER, HUSTED OR BROWN, IS GOOD .

LACK OF ACTION ON BOTH SIDES OF THINGS.

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

PEOPLE KNOW WHEN THEY SEE SHERROD BROWN , THEY KNOW WHAT HE IS FIGHTING FOR.

THEY KNOW THE DIGNITY OF WORK.

THAT'S WHAT IS GOING TO MATTER IN NOVEMBER, ESPECIALLY IN THIS ECONOMY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OUR FINAL TOPIC, THE AGE-OLD CONTROVERSY OVER RELIGION IN SCHOOLS.

FOR DECADES LAWMAKERS AND JUDGES HAVE BATTLED OVER PRAYER IN SCHOOL, POSTING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN CLASSROOMS.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

LAWS AND DECISIONS HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH NOW, A PROPOSAL BEFORE OHIO LAWMAKERS WOULD PERMIT THE TEACHING OF THE POSITIVE IMPACT OF JUDEO- CHRISTIAN VALUES IN U. S. HISTORY.

IT'S CALLED THE CHARLIE KIRK AMERICAN HERITAGE ACT, IN HONOR OF THE SLAIN CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST CHARLIE KIRK.

DONALDSON, WHAT IS THE GOAL OF THIS PROPOSAL, THIS BILL?

>> SO REPRESENTATIVE JERRY CARL, WHO IS A REPUBLICAN AND ALSO A FORMER BAPTIST PASTOR, TELLS ME THAT HE HAS HEARD, FROM TEACHERS WHO SAY THEY ARE AFRAID TO TEACH THE TRUTH ABOUT CHRISTIANITY IN PUBLIC SCHOOL BECAUSE OF THIS IDEA OF SEPARATION AND CHURCH AND STATE AND I WILL DO LITTLE PLUG BECAUSE I SPENT MONTHS WORKING WITH NPR WHERE WE EXPLORED THE STATE OF THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE 21st CENTURY.

SO THIS CHARLIE KIRK 21ST- CENTURY ACT IS IN NAME ONLY.

IT DOES NOT MENTION CHARLIE KIRK.

IT TELLS ME, REITERATES THE IDEA THAT THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE DOES NOT PREVENT TEACHERS FROM TEACHING THE POSITIVE IMPACT THAT CHRISTIANITY HAS HAD ON AMERICAN HISTORY.

>> DOES THIS NEED TO BE IN STATE LAW, TERRY?

>> WELL, THERE ARE SOME TEACHERS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN TEACH AND TALK ABOUT RELIGION.

CATHEDRALS AND MOSQUES AND TEMPLES ALL OVER THE WORLD ON MULTIPLE CONTINENTS.

RELIGIOUS HISTORY IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE RELIGION, GOOD AND BAD, HAS DRIVEN A LOT OF THINGS GOOD AND BAD IN THE WORLD BUT HOW YOU TEACH IT AND TEACH IT FAIRLY BECAUSE IT IS SO INCREDIBLY COMPLEX TO UNDERSTAND ALL THE DIFFERENT RELIGIONS AND THEIR INFLUENCES AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T THINK INTERNATIONALLY.

THEY ARE MORE FOCUSED LOCALLY.

SO IT IS A CHALLENGE.

NOT SURE THIS BILL IS GOING TO SOLVE IT BECAUSE, AGAIN, RELIGION AND THE WORLD HISTORY IS SO COMPLEX AND INTERWOVEN.

IT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.

>> OUR MONEY SAYS "IN GOD WE TRUST. "

SO HOW DO YOU SEPARATE RELIGION FROM AMERICAN HISTORY?

>> YOU CAN'T.

ALSO AT THE SAME TIME, THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE ASKING QUESTIONS.

WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS BILL?

IT IS ON THE MONEY.

WE DO TEACH RELIGION IN SCHOOLS.

FOLKS ARE RIGHTFULLY QUESTIONING WHEN YOU FRAME AND ALSO THINK ABOUT MESSAGING AS WELL.

AFTER A MAKE IT IN A MORONIC WAY AFTER CHARLIE KIRK.

I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS.

WHEN CHARLIE KIRK SAYS SOMETHING.

FICA BLACK PILOT, HE IS GOING TO SAY I HOPE HE IS QUALIFIED.

IS A HIGH PRIORITY THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE PURSUING?

>> WHEN YOU READ THE BILL, THEY LIST SOME OF THE THINGS THEY CAN TEACH.

IT IS NOT A MANDATE BY ANY MEANS.

TALK ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS MOTIVATIONS OF THE PILGRIMS LANDING AND PAINT LIMITS .

TALK ABOUT GENERAL WASHINGTON'S GENERAL DIRECTION REGARDING CHAPLAINS IN THE ARMY.

THAT THING IS VERY SPECIFIC.

>> YEAH.

SOMETHING I HEARD IN TALKING TO SOURCES IS THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHERE EXACTLY THIS CAME FROM.

I'M NOT SURE IF I WAS GARY CLICKER HE WORKED ON IT WITH OTHER PEOPLE BUT THERE IS CONCERN FROM EDUCATORS WHO SAY THIS IS UNNECESSARY BECAUSE FOLKS ARE ALREADY ABLE TO TEACH THIS.

BUT , B. , THEY ARE CONCERNED ANY TIME THE STATE IS PRESCRIBING EXACT CURRICULUM.

IT IS NOT A MANDATE.

IT IS A "MAY. "

NOT A "SHALL. "

PUTTING THOSE WORDS IN THE OHIO REVISED CODE.

>> TEACH ABOUT SOME RELIGIOUS FOLKS WHO WERE NOT SO FAVORABLE LIKE FATHER CONKLIN WHO USED HIS RADIO BROADCAST TO SPOUT ANTI-SOMATIC FREDERICK, TERRY?

>> WELL, IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, THERE IS A LOT OF BELIEFS.

EVEN A MUSLIM.

WITHIN THE PROTESTANT OR THE CATHOLIC, THERE'S ALL KIND OF FACTIONS, SO IT IS COMPLICATED.

I WISH THE SCHOOLS WOULD DO MORE BASICS ON ECONOMICS 101 AND IN GOVERNMENT, PEOPLE UNDERSTANDING THE THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

WHY AND HOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN DO BETTER IN THIS AGE OF YOUTUBE AND ALL KIND OF DISTRACTIONS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> WHEN DO WE HAVE THE ALBERT EINSTEIN HERITAGE ACT?

THE S. T. E. M. MANDATES IN STATE LAW?

>> ALL WE NEED IS A SCIENTIST LEGISLATURE WHO IS GOING TO PURSUE IT.

WE MIGHT JUST BE THERE .

>> A SCIENTOLOGIST, A BIOLOGIST, AND A PRIEST WALK INTO A STATE HOUSE.

IT'S A JOKE ALMOST.

>> JUST A PRIEST?

SOMEBODY IS GOING TO SAY WHY ISN'T THIS, THIS, AND THIS THERE, TOO.

OHIO IS IN A MORE DIVERSE COUNTRY THAN IT WAS A PLYMOUTH ROCK TIME.

>> U. S. CONSTITUTION.

GET YOU IN TROUBLE.

YOU CAN'T ENDORSE RELIGION BUT YOU CAN'T PROHIBIT PEOPLE FROM TALKING ABOUT IT.

IT GOES BACK AND FORTH EACH WAY.

>> THE REASON FOR AMERICA IS THE EUROPEANS WANTED STATE SPONSOR AND THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA WANTED TO ESCAPE THAT.

RELIGIOUS HISTORY AS PART OF OUR HISTORY.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

>> YEAH.

LOUISIANA JUST VOTED TO ELIMINATE THE ONE MAJORITY DISTRICT IN LOUISIANA AND I THINK THAT SHOULD BE AN ALARM.

THAT IS A ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY AT THIS POINT.

FOLKS SHOULD BE ALARMED.

ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE SOUTH, IN PARTICULAR.

I DO THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD NOT BE SILENT ABOUT.

FOLKS SHOULD BE ORGANIZING.

MAKING SURE THEY'RE TAKING ACTION AS WELL.

>> TERRY?

>> THIS THING CALLED A. I. IS IN THE NEWS.

WE HAD THE POPE SAY HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T DO.

LAST WEEK STATE SENATE DID PASS A BILL BUT THERE IS THIS BIG DEBATE GOING ON.

HOW MUCH SHOULD THE FEDS, WHICH IS MORE NATIONAL, CONTROL A. I. OR S. E. C. GUARD RAILS FOR WHAT INDIVIDUAL STATES DO?

A. I. IS AN ISSUE THAT IS GOING TO GET BIGGER AND BIGGER.

IT IS NOT JUST THE POPE THAT IS ON THE BANDWAGON.

>> SARAH?

>> THE POPE.

WE GOT A BLESSING FROM THE POPE.

SPECIAL TIME IN MY LIFE AND NOW I GET TO BE WITH YOU ALL AGAIN.

RIGHT?

>> PUBLIC TV.

CONGRATULATIONS, SARAH.

I JUST GOT BACK FROM IRELAND.

I LEARNED WHEN I WAS OVER THERE THAT THEY HAD A TAX IN THE EARLY 1800s THE TAXED WINDOWS.

IF YOU HAD MORE THAN THREE WINDOWS, YOU PAID MORE IN PROPERTY TAXES.

THAT'S WHY YOU SEE SO MANY COTTAGES WITH ONLY THREE WINDOWS, AND HALF DOORS.

BECAUSE THAT OPEN SPACE ABOVE THE CLOSED LOWER DOOR WAS NOT TAXED.

ANYWAY, IRELAND'S TAX ON DAYLIGHT WAS NOT POPULAR, BUT IT TOOK 50 YEARS TO REPEAL IT.

PROVING THAT FIGHTS OVER PROPERTY TAXES ARE NOT NEW, NOT UNIQUE AND NOT EASILY SOLVED.

THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

A REMINDER TO CHECK OUT THE WOSU NEWS PAGE ON YOUTUBE.

YOU CAN ALSO WATCH US ON DEMAND AT WOSU.

ORG AND THE PBS APP.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.