>>> A CONGRESSIONAL MAP BOTH PARTIES CAN LIVE WITH.

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

IN THE END, BOTH PARTIES GAVE A LITTLE.

THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION HAS APPROVED A BIPARTISAN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAP.

THE MAP CARVES UP OHIO INTO ITS FIFTEEN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

THREE ARE CONSIDERED SAFE DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS AND 12 ARE CONSIDERED TO FAVOR REPUBLICANS.

THE KEY CHANGES --DEMOCRAT EMILIA SYKES' DISTRICT IN AKRON IS MORE SAFELY DEMOCRATIC.

DEMOCRAT MARCY KAPTUR'S DISTRICT IN THE TOLEDO AREA IS MORE REPUBLICAN.

AND DEMOCRAT GREG LANDSMAN'S DISTRICT IN THE CINCINNATI AREA, GOES FROM A TOSS UP JESSIE BALMERT, IN THE END, WHAT PROMPTED THIS BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT?

>> YEAH, THERE ARE A FEW DIFFERENT FACTORS, DEMOCRATS KNEW THAT IF THIS MOVED TO NOVEMBER, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT THIS MAP WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE AND LIKELY IT WOULD HAVE LED TO 13 REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS, TWO DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS.

AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, REPUBLICANS WERE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS GOAL INTO A BALLOT VOTE, OR A LAWSUIT, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE EXPENSIVE THAT WOULD LEAVE THESE DISTRICTS UP IN THE AIR FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, WITH CANDIDATES NOT KNOWING WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO RUN.

SO, BOTH SIDES GOT SOMETHING.

>> SO, WHEN --WERE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION HAPPY WHEN IT WAS OVER?

WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE MEETING WAS OVER?

WERE THEY CELEBRATING, SHAKING HANDS, HIGH-FIVING?

OR, LIKE, "OKAY, THIS IS THE BEST WE CAN DO."?

>> STATE REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN STEWART SAID THAT THIS IS WHAT APPROVED THE 2018 BALLOT MEASURE, MEANWHILE REPUBLICAN SAID THIS IS A BROKEN PROCESS THAT WOULD BE BETTER SERVED BY CITIZENS BEING THE ONES TO DRAW THE MAP, BUT THEY DID THEY FELT LIKE WHAT WAS THE BEST OF A BAD OPTION.

>> HALF A LOAF IS BETTER THAN NONE.

THE DEMOCRATS GET HALF A LOAF HERE, OR LESS?

>> I THINK THE GOT HALF A LOAF, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK THIS IS THE BEST COMPROMISE THEY COULD BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH.

I MEAN, OHIOANS DESERVE BETTER, AT THE END OF THE DAY, BUT I DO GIVE CREDIT TO THE DEMOCRATS FOR BEING ABLE TO COME UP WITH SOME COMPROMISE, THIS GIVES THEM A FIGHTING CHANCE TO BE COMPETITIVE IN THEIR DISTRICTS, WHILE ALSO STILL BEING ABLE TO KEEP THE FIVE CONGRESSIONAL SEATS.

I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LONGSHOT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I DO THINK IT IS MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WAS GOING TO BE PROPOSED BY THE REPUBLICANS, AS WELL.

>> I THINK THERE WERE DREAMS FROM THE ULTRACONSERVATIVE TRUMP SUPPORTERS THAT THEY COULD GET OHIO DOWN TO TWO DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS, ARE THEY DISAPPOINTED FOR THIS MAP, THAT REPUBLICANS DIDN'T GO HARDER FOR IT?

BETTER THAN 10, RIGHT NOW THEY HOLD 10 SEATS, THEY ARE LIKELY TO HOLD 12.

DEPENDING ON THE KIND OF YOUR DONALD TRUMP HAS BETWEEN NOW AND THE ELECTION, IF HIS POPULARITY STAYS ROUGHLY WHERE IT IS, HE HAS A VERY HIGH FLOOR AND LOW CEILING, IF HE REMAINS POPULAR, IT COULD GO TO 13, THESE MAPS COULD SHOW 13 REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS GOING TO CONGRESS NEXT SESSION.

>> BUT, THE DEMOCRATS SEES THIS AS LANDSMAN'S DISTRICT, AND ALSO MARCY KAPTUR IN TOLEDO, AND THE INCUMBENT DISTRICTS, THEY THINK THAT IN A WAY THEY COULD WIN HERE, RIGHT, JESSIE?

>> YEAH, MARCY KAPTUR AFTER THIS MAP CAME OUT SAID SHE WAS GOING TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION.

THAT DISTRICT IS MUCH MORE REPUBLICAN THAN IT HAS BEEN, IT HAS BEEN LEANING THAT WAY.

SHE WAS ABLE TO WIN THAT DISTRICT WHEN IT VOTED FOR TRUMP BY NEARLY SEVEN PERCENTAGE POINTS, SO SHE HAS SOME POPULARITY IN THE DISTRICT, BUT THAT'S JUST GOING TO BE VERY HARD FOR HER TO WIN.

AND THEN, GREG LANDSMAN RIGHT NOW HAS A COUPLE OF OPPONENTS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING WHETHER THIS WILL DRAW ANOTHER REPUBLICAN OR A MORE COMPETITIVE REPUBLICAN TO RUN IN THAT DISTRICT.

>> AND IT'S ONE THING WE DO KNOW, TOO, ABOUT CONGRESSWOMAN KAPTUR IS THAT SHE IS A FIGHTER, SHE DEFINITELY HAS BEEN UP AGAINST ODDS SIMILAR TO THIS.

I DO THINK IT WILL BE ANOTHER CHALLENGE, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE JUST ASKING FOR THE RULES TO BE PLAYED IN THE WAYS THAT VOTERS ASKED IT TO BE PLAYED IN 2018, WHEN THEY MADE THE BOAT TO DO THIS.

>> THE 16th DISTRICT, WHICH IS MIKE CAREY'S DISTRICT,'S STRETCHES FROM GRANDVIEW HEIGHTS TO MIAMI COUNTY, FAR WEST OF OHIO.

YOU KNOW, FAR WEST OF OHIO AND GRANDVIEW HEIGHTS DON'T HAVE A LOT IN COMMON.

IS THIS A SIGN THE SYSTEM IS STILL BROKEN?

>> THE SYSTEM HAS ALWAYS BEEN MAPS DRAWN FOR ODD REASONS, ALMOST ALWAYS POLITICAL.

A NOTION SOMEHOW THAT IS A RECENT THING OR THAT IS AN OHIO THING IS JUST NOT CORRECT.

GERRYMANDERING IS NAMED AFTER GENERATION OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS.

SO, THE NOTION OF PARTIES JOSTLING TO HELP THEMSELVES, IS PART OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

THE SOLUTION IS, YOU DON'T LIKE THE CURRENT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, CURRENT MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE, VOTE THEM OUT.

>> BUT, IT'S HARD TO DO WHEN THE DISTRICTS ARE DRAWN TO FAVOR ONE PARTY OVER THE OTHER, SO I KNOW EVERYBODY DOES IT AND THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR 240 YEARS.

DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT?

I MEAN, SHOULDN'T THERE BE A BETTER SYSTEM?

>> WELL, OUR SYSTEM IS SUCH THAT BOTH SIDES TOO AND THE SIDE THAT WINS GETS TO DRAW THE LINES AND THE VOTERS, IN THIS CASE, NOT ONLY DO THEY GET TO PICK MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THEY GET TO PICK 99 REPS, 33 SENATORS, AND THOSE DISTRICTS ARE A LOT SMALLER, SO IT IS POSSIBLE TO DEFEAT A REPUBLICAN IN DEMOCRAT DISTRICT AND VICE VERSA.

>> SO, STANLEY GATES, WHAT DO DEMOCRATS NEED TO DO TO FIX THIS?

BECAUSE THAT IS HOW REPUBLICANS GOT CONTROL IN 2010 AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE NOW, FOR THE MOST PART, BUT DEMOCRATS COULD WIN SEATS BEFORE 2030 AND MOVE THIS THE OTHER WAY.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SHOW UP AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THE VOTE TO DO THE CHANGE, IT IS GOING TO SUCK, BUT AGAIN IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE.

SO, I THINK AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE SHOW UP AND PLAY THE GAME AS MUCH AS THEY ARE PLAYING THE GAME, TOO.

I THINK THERE IS DEFINITELY A CHANCE FOR A WAVE, BUT I THINK IT IS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME, TOO.

>> JESSIE, WHAT IS NEXT?

IS THIS OVER, NOW?

IS THERE ANY CHANCE FOR THE FOLKS WHO ARE UPSET AT BOTH PARTIES, FOR AN AGREEMENT?

>> I WOULD SAY THERE IS A CHANCE OF LAWSUITS IN ANY SITUATION, BUT WE DID HEAR FROM ERIC HOLDER, WHOSE GROUP HAS SUED IN THE PAST, AND HE SAID THIS IS A GERRYMANDER OF A GERRYMANDER, BUT WAS OKAY, EFFECTIVELY, WITH WHAT CAME OUT OF THIS.

SO, THAT IS AT LEAST ONE PROMINENT GROUP WHO MIGHT NOT BE FILING A LAWSUIT.

>> ONCE YOU HAVE BOTH PARTIES ON BOARD AND THE I WAS UP IN COURT LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN IT DID LAST YEAR, THERE WAS A COUPLE OF SUBARUS FULL OF PEOPLE IN T-SHIRTS AT THE HEARINGS, YOU KNOW, COMPLAINING, THIS IS THE HARD LEFT TYPE WITH NO LAWSUIT TO BE HAD.

>> WHAT --IS THIS IT, NOW?

STANLEY, IS THIS ISSUE OVER?

IF THESE MAPS ARE OUT OF PLACE IN 2031, WOULD YOU LISTEN AGAIN IS NORMAL?

ARE WE DONE?

>> I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE IT, UNTIL WE GET CLOSER TO 2030, I DON'T THINK WE WILL SEE A LOT OF ACTION ON THIS FRONT.

I THINK THAT DEMOCRATS WILL TAKE THIS AS A WIN, IN SOME CASES, BUT ALSO WE KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT IT.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE, AND I THINK DEMOCRATS WILL WALK AWAY SAYING THAT THEY WON SOMETHING, RATHER THAN GOING INTO NEXT MONTH WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY COULD JUST FORCE THEM OUT DOWN THEIR THROATS AND YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT, AT THAT POINT.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO, NO CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT LIKE WE HAD LAST YEAR ON THE BALLOT, THAT'S NOT IN THE CARDS RIGHT NOW?

THERE'S NO TIME FOR THAT, RIGHT, JESSIE?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

THE 2024 AMENDMENT JUST REASSESSING WHERE THEY ARE GOING FROM THERE.

>> WELL, NO MORE IMPORTANTLY, NO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" DISCUSSIONS ON REDISTRICTING FOR SOME TIME.

>> WE CAN ONLY HOPE!

AND SETTLE, FOR NOW.

WHATEVER YOUR OPINION ON THIS, MAYBE IT IS JUST TO SETTLE AND MOVE ON.

>>> ANYWAY --THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN ENTERS ITS SECOND MONTH THIS WEEKEND, IN OCTOBER.

GOVERNMENT WORKERS FELT THE IMPACT WITH FURLOUGHS AND INDEFINITELY DELAYED PAYCHECKS.

NOW, OTHERS WILL START TO FEEL THE EFFECTS.

SOME ONE AND A HALF MILLION OHIOANS STAND TO LOSE THEIR S.N.A.P.

BENEFITS THIS WEEKEND, BUT, IF GEORGE HAS ORDERED THE PAYMENTS CONTINUE.

BEFORE THE RULING, OHIO STATE OFFICIALS HAD COME UP WITH A PLAN TO GIVE UP TO $25 MILLION TO FAMILIES WHO LOSE THE FOOD BENEFITS.

THE BIGGER ISSUE IS, DEMOCRATS ARE HOLDING OUT ON APPROVING A BUDGET PLAN BECAUSE THEY WANT CONGRESS TO EXTEND SUBSIDIES FOR OBAMACARE.

WITH OPEN ENROLMENT BEGINNING THIS WEEKEND, OBAMACARE ENROLLEES FIND THEIR PREMIUMS INCREASING SHARPLY FOR NEXT YEAR.

STANLEY GATES, DEMOCRATS COULD FIX BOTH PROBLEMS, THE S.N.A.P.

BENEFITS, MAINLY, IF THE SENATE WERE TO SAY, "OKAY, WE WILL CONTINUE THE GOVERNMENT FUNDING," AND MOVE ON.

WHY NOT DO THAT?

>> I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD BE SET ON BOTH SIDES, RIGHT?

THERE IS A CONTINGENCY FUND THAT IS AVAILABLE, AS WELL, WHERE THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE ABLE TO TAP INTO THAT, THERE HAS BEEN A REFUSAL TO DO THAT.

THERE IS A BILL THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD DO, AS WELL, IN THE SENATE THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED BY BOTH DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS AND THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.

I THINK FOR ME, SOMEONE WHO GREW UP ON THE WEST SIDE OF COLUMBUS, WHO HAVE FAMILY THAT ARE IN A VERY SMALL, IMPOVERISHED TOWN IN MISSISSIPPI, WE ARE PLAYING POLITICS WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES.

I THINK ABOUT ALL THE TIME AND, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, S.N.A.P.

ISN'T AN ACRONYM, IT IS PEOPLE'S DINNER, AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO PLAY POLITICS WITH THAT.

>> WELL, A LOT OF FOLKS WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP USE S.N.A.P., USE MEDICAID, RELY ON THE OBAMACARE EXCHANGE FOR THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THIS.

DO REPUBLICANS START TO HEAR FROM THEM?

>> I THINK THAT THE REPUBLICANS KEEP VOTING TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN AND THE DEMOCRATS KEEP VOTING NO, ON THE OBAMACARE SIDE, I WONDER HOW MANY OF OUR LISTENERS AND VIEWERS TODAY REALIZE THAT THOSE SHORT-TERM SUBSIDIES WERE COVERING THE POOR PEOPLE WHO MAKE $140,000 A YEAR, THAT IS WHAT IS EXPIRING AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

THE NOTION THAT THERE SHOULD BE A HEALTHCARE INSURANCE SUBSIDY FOR PEOPLE MAKING UP TO $140,000 A YEAR.

>> IT'S A SLIDING SCALE.

>> THERE IS.

BUT, THE LINE WOULD BE THAT BIG, COVERING FOLKS WHO COULD EASILY COVER THEIR OWN HEALTH CARE INSURANCE IS ONE OF THE REASONS IT SHOULD NOT BE RENEWED.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE, JESSIE, ON STATE OFFICIALS TO DO SOMETHING, OHIO HAS A PRETTY LARGE, PRETTY FULL RAINY DAY FUND, WE HAVE THIS UNCLAIMED ACCOUNT WE DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD UNTIL A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, SO IS THERE PRESSURE TO DO SOMETHING?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS CERTAINLY THE ARGUMENT THAT THE DEMOCRATS MADE ON THE OHIO HOUSE AND SENATE FLOORS THIS WEEK, THE REPUBLICANS SAID THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO SPEND TO SURE UP, YOU BENEFITS WAS GOING TO THREATEN, YOU KNOW, THE FISCAL HEALTH OF THE STATE AND SO FORTH.

SO, THIS IS NOT A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY OR AN EASY FIX, AND THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO FIX IT.

>> IS THIS THE TIPPING POINT, STANLEY?

WHERE IT HAS BEEN A MONTH, LAST SHUTDOWN LASTED ABOUT 35 DAYS, WE ARE GETTING CLOSE TO THAT, NOW.

IS THIS WHERE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FROM BOTH PARTIES START HEARING FROM THEIR CONSTITUENTS, START REALLY FEELING THE EFFECTS, GET TO A COMPROMISE?

>> I, PERSONALLY, DON'T THINK SO.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE THERE, YET.

WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE, BECAUSE AGAIN, PEOPLE ARE PLAYING POLITICS WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES, BUT WHAT I DO THINK WE WILL SEE IS A LOT MORE CONVERSATIONS FROM FOLKS, COME NEXT YEAR, WHERE WE COULD SEE A WAVE ON EITHER SIDE BECAUSE OF THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, AND IT WILL GO RIGHT BACK TO FOLKS NOT HAVING PAYCHECKS, BUT STILL HAVING TO WORK.

I HAVE FRIENDS IN D.C.

THAT WORK FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THEY HAVE TO SHOW UP EVERY DAY WITHOUT KNOWING IF THEY ARE GOING TO GET A PAYCHECK.

THIS IS GOING TO GO AWAY.

I SEE THIS HAPPENING FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER TWO WEEKS, UNFORTUNATELY.

I'M HOPING IT WON'T BE, I'M HOPING THERE CAN BE A COMPROMISE SOONER THAN LATER.

>> IS THERE A COMPROMISE OUT THERE, MARK?

YOU MENTIONED THE INCOME LEVELS OF FOLKS WHO QUALIFY FOR SUBSIDIES, WHAT IF REPUBLICANS SAY, "LET'S DROP THAT DOWN TO $80,000 FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR, AND WORK ON SUBSIDIES FOR TWO YEARS," IS THAT WHERE THE COMPROMISE LIES?

>> THAT IS USUALLY WHERE IT HAPPENS, IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE A COMPROMISE, IT HAS TO BE IN THE NUANCE LIKE THAT.

WE HAVE TWO TALENTED LEADERS, JOHN THUNE IN THE SENATE AND MIKE JOHNSON IN THE HOUSE, AND I DON'T TAKE IT WILL GO TO THIS TIME NEXT WEEK, I THINK NEXT WEEK IT IS DONE.

>> I SURE HOPE SO.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER STATE EMPLOYEES, STATE CONTRACTORS THAT MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THIS, JESSIE?

>> YEAH, THERE WAS A NOTICE ON FRIDAY THAT WENT OUT REGARDING ABOUT 9000 EMPLOYEES RELATED TO FUNDING COMING IN FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHO COULD POTENTIALLY BE FURLOUGHED.

I THINK THOSE ARE NOTICES THAT HAD TO GO OUT TO UNIONS, AND THE EMPLOYEES, AND SO WE WILL SEE IF THAT ULTIMATELY IMPACTS THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

THERE IS ALSO PLACES LIKE HEADSTART, WHICH PROVIDES CHILD CARE FOR LOW INCOME FAMILIES, THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE CLOSED IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES.

>> NOW, BACK TO THE SUBSIDIES --THE SUBSIDIES DON'T DO ANYTHING TO CONTROL HEALTHCARE COSTS.

THEY HAVE HELP PAY FOR INSURANCE UP FRONT, BUT THERE IS NO REAL INCENTIVE FOR HOSPITALS, YOU KNOW, TO CUT THEIR COSTS FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUG COMPANIES TO LOWER THEIR COSTS.

SHOULD THAT BE A PART OF THIS EQUATION?

CAN IT BE DONE, AS PART OF THIS STANDOFF?

>> I THINK THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION AND WHY THE DEBATE CONTINUES.

I MEAN, THIS STEMS ALL THE WAY FROM THE ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL ALL THE WAY INTO THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SHUTDOWN.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HAVING THIS DEBATE.

>> MARK, GOVERNMENT CAN CONTROL COSTS, WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTHCARE YOU CAN HAVE CHEAP, UNIVERSAL, AND HIGH-QUALITY, PICK TWO.

AND WHICHEVER SET OF POLICYMAKERS IS IN POWER PICS TWO AND THEN EVERYONE COMPLAINS YOU CANNOT HAVE CHEAP, UNIVERSAL, HIGH-QUALITY ANYTHING.

IT IS THE NATURE OF REALITY AND ECONOMICS.

>> EUROPE HAS --MAYBE NOT CHEAP --BUT CERTAINLY LESS EXPENSIVE THAN WE HAVE AND BETTER HEALTH OUTCOMES.

>> SOCIALIZED OUTCOMES TAKING MORE MONEY FROM TAXES WAS DRIVES DOWN INNOVATION AND BRINGS BUSINESS TO AMERICA, WHICH WE LIKE.

WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS FOLLOW THAT MODEL AND NOT HAVE JOBS BEING CREATED HERE.

>> THOSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE EVERY MONTH, EITHER.

>> IT'S A TRADE OFF.

WELL, OTHER PEOPLE PAY IT FOR THEM.

THERE IS ALWAYS A BILL TO PAY, THE QUESTION IS, WHO PAYS THAT BILL?

AND IT SHOULD BE THE PEOPLE WHO GET THE BENEFIT, OR THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET TO BENEFIT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, OHIO PROPERTY TAXES HAVE RISEN SHARPLY, THANKS LARGELY TO RISING PROPERTY VALUES.

BUT, NOT ALL PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE SEEN THEIR TAXES INCREASE, BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY PROPERTY TAXES.

OHIO LAW EXEMPTS MOST NON- PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS FROM PAYING PROPERTY TAXES.

THINGS LIKE HOSPITALS, UNIVERSITIES, CHURCHES, NATURE PRESERVES.

A NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE CERTAIN LARGE, NONPROFIT NATURE PRESERVES TO MAKE PAYMENTS IN LIEU OF TAXES.

THE BILL RAISES THE QUESTION -- BILLION DOLLAR HOSPITALS AND UNIVERSITIES, PAY PROPERTY TAXES, TO SUPPORT LOCAL SERVICES, AND LOWER THE TAX BURDEN ON HOMEOWNERS?

MARK WEAVER, SHOULD NONPROFITS, ESPECIALLY BIG ONES, SHOULD THEY BE PAYING PROPERTY TAXES?

>> CERTAINLY THE ONES THAT ARE GETTING MONEY FOR WHATEVER THEY ARE DOING.

WHETHER IT IS SOMEPLACE LIKE THE COLUMBUS ZOO, WHICH HAS A BIG ISSUE RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHETHER THEY SHOULD BE PAYING FOR THE EMS CARE THAT COMES OUT OF LIBERTY TOWNSHIP, OR THE PLACES THAT MAKE MONEY, IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD, THEY DON'T CALL IT A "PROPHET," THEY CALL IT A "SURPLUS."

LET'S ALSO REMEMBER, IF IT IS A TRUE CHARITY, MEANING THEY GET A TAX BREAK FOR DONATIONS, MEANS THEY SHOULD BE TAKING THAT TAX BREAK AND BE PAYING PROPERTY TAXES.

IT IS ESSENTIALLY MOVING GOVERNMENT PAYMENTS FROM ONE HAND TO THE OTHER.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK, STANLEY?

I MEAN, LOOK AT THE BIG HOSPITALS IN TOWN, NATIONWIDE CHILDREN'S, NET REVENUE IN 2023, THEY SAID THEIR TAX RETURN WAS A $300 MILLION.

OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY MEDICAL RESERVE.

I MEAN, BUT, THEY DON'T PAY PROPERTY TAXES.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION CONTINUES TO HAPPEN, PARTICULARLY IN COLUMBUS, BUT DEFINITELY ALL ACROSS THE STATE.

LOOKED, I WORK IN CITY GOVERNMENT BEFORE MY CURRENT JOB, I WORKED FOR THE CITY OF COLUMBUS, WHICH HANDS OUT A FAIR AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAX ABATEMENTS, SO I THINK WHEN THEY ARE HANDLED VERY WELL WITH THE THOUGHT OF MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE BRINGING JOBS TO COLUMBUS, AND ALSO MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE INVESTING IN THE COMMUNITY, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE KEY IS JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT DOING THIS AND MAKING INEQUITY DRESSED IN A BUSINESS SUIT.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE PROPERTY TAXES ARE GOING TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL DISTRICTS, SOCIAL SERVICES?

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THESE BIG CORPORATIONS, SURE, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET LIKE A ROOKIE CONTRACT, RIGHT?

WHERE IT IS A LIMITED AGREEMENT, ON HOW YOU ARE ABLE TO PAY PROPERTY TAXES, BUT THEN FROM THAT POINT, TOO, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE YOU ARE BRINGING YOU ARE STILL PAYING THOSE TAXES, TOO?

>> THIS IS KIND OF A -- IS THIS A TEST CASE, A SMALL, LITTLE TRIAL BALLOON FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO DIP THEIR TOE INTO THIS PROPERTY TAXES FOR NONPROFITS?

>> YEAH, I THINK NEARLY EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE, WHEN IT COMES TO PROPERTY TAXES AT THE OHIO LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW, AND YOU ARE SEEING A LOT OF INNOVATIVE IDEAS, YOU ARE SEEING A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT WAYS OF GOING ABOUT IT.

IN GENERAL, YOU CAN EITHER ADJUST THE RATE, LIKE HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE PAYING, OR JUST THE BASE, HOW MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF SERVICES AND PEOPLE ARE PAYING?

THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY LETTERS YOU CAN PULL ON THIS.

>> NOW, THIS BILL, MARK, DEALS WITH A LARGE NATURE RESERVE IN A SPECIFIC COUNTY --AND I FORGET WHAT COUNTY IT IS --THE COUNTY JUSTIFIABLY SAYS, "LOOK, THIS LAND IS HUGE, THIS TAKES A LOT OF OUR COUNTY AND WE CAN'T COLLECT PROPERTY TAXES ON IT," AND THEY HAVE A POINT.

>> THEY CAN'T, BUT WE SET ASIDE LAND FOR NATURE RESERVES FOR A REASON, WHEN GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZES SOMETHING, WE GET MORE OF IT.

SOMETHING, WE GET LESS OF IT, AND WE OUGHT TO BE THINKING ABOUT THAT WHEN WE MAKE TAX POLICY.

>> WELL, STANLEY, THE DEER AND THE ANTELOPE, WHEN THEY ARE PLAYING AT THIS RESERVE, THEY ARE NOT REQUIRING A WHOLE LOT OF SERVICES, RIGHT?

WHAT IS THE COUNTY PROVIDING?

JUST TOOLS AND FIRE, NO?

>> I MEAN, THAT GOES BACK TO THE CONVERSATION ON LEVEES, TOO, RIGHT?

I THINK WHETHER IT IS THE ANTELOPES THAT ARE PLAYING IN THE PRESERVES OR NOT, THIS IS ALSO A WAY TO HAVE ECONOMIC IMPACT TO THESE COMMUNITIES, TOO.

I THINK THE COLUMBUS ZOO, WHILE THEY DON'T PAY TAXES, THEY HAVE ECONOMIC IMPACTS TO THIS WHOLE REGION, THAT IS OVER MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, TOO.

>> THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IF THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR THEIR EMS RUNS, WHICH IS COMING OUT OF LIBERTY TOWNSHIP, WE ALL OF THE COLUMBUS ZOO, BUT THEY HAVE TO PAY THEIR OWN WAY.

>> BACK TO DELAWARE COUNTY, THE FRANKLIN COUNTY TAXPAYERS PAY THEIR TAXES AND WE WILL GET INTO THAT AT SOME OTHER POINT.

STATE GOVERNMENT, YOU TALK ABOUT THE CIRCULAR THING, BUT IN COLUMBUS, GOVERNMENT HAS A LOT OF PROPERTY.

I MEAN, SO, FRANKLIN COUNTY, AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, COLUMBUS IN PARTICULAR, THEY DON'T --THEY LOSE OUT ON THAT MONEY.

>> THAT IS IN THE NATURE OF THE SEAT OF GOVERNMENT.

YOU HAVE MORE GOVERNMENT THINGS.

AND YOU ARE RIGHT, GOVERNMENT WOULD BE PAYING ITSELF.

THE PROPERTY TAX PROBLEM IS A BIGGER ONE AND IT WILL HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED IN A BIGGER WAY.

I THINK OHIO IS THE EIGHTH HIGHEST PROPERTY TAX BURDEN IN THE COUNTRY AND AS A RESULT, THERE IS A LARGER SOLUTION OUT THERE AND IT WILL HAVE TO BE POLICY MAKERS THAT MAKE IT.

>>> ANOTHER IDEA TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES, IS TO CONSOLIDATE OHIO'S MANY, MANY GOVERNMENT ENTITIES.

SCHOOL DISTRICTS USUALLY TOP THE TARGET LIST.

THE STATE HAS JUST MORE THAN 600 SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

SOME, LIKE COLUMBUS, ARE LARGE --IT HAS 45,000 STUDENTS.

SOME ARE SMALL --KELLYS ISLAND HAS FIVE STUDENTS.

PUT IN BAY LOCAL SCHOOLS HAS 71.

SUPPORTERS OF CONSOLIDATION SAY, FEWER DISTRICTS MEAN FEWER HIGHLY PAID SUPERINTENDENTS AND DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENTS.

OPPONENTS SAY, MORE LOCAL DISTRICTS GIVES RESIDENTS BETTER LOCAL CONTROL OF THEIR COMMUNITY'S SCHOOLS.

JESSIE BALMERT, EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE, YOU MENTIONED ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES, HOW MUCH IS THIS ON THE TABLE, CONSOLIDATING SCHOOL DISTRICTS?

>> WELL, I KNOW THERE WAS A BILL FROM A SENATOR THAT WOULD VOLUNTARILY DO SOME OF THIS, BUT AS FAR AS, LIKE, FORCING SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO CONSOLIDATE, THAT STARTS TO BE A TRICKY SUBJECT FOR LAWMAKERS, WHO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THESE SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHO THEY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR NEXT ELECTION, AND SO FORTH.

SO, IT'S A LITTLE CHALLENGING.

BUT, I THINK PARTICULARLY, SOME ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE OVERHEAD, LIKE YOU SAID, THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT EACH ONE OF THESE MORE THAN 600 SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAS.

>> OTHER STATES RUN THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICTS BY COUNTY.

FRANKLIN COUNTY IS ONE DISTRICT, AND THEY RUN ALL THE SCHOOLS AS ONE.

AND SOME OF THESE STATES ARE PRETTY POPULATED.

LIKE, MARYLAND, VIRGINIA, THEY DO IT THIS WAY.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT GETS TRICKY, THOUGH, RIGHT?

I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE ONE ALL OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT ARE HERE, I THINK PARENTS, AND ALSO EVEN TEACHERS, THERE WILL BE AN UPROAR, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T BE THINKING THAT RURAL AND URBAN COMMUNITIES FACE THE SAME CHALLENGES, AS WELL.

SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT FEWER DISTRICTS WILL FIX ANY OF THE INEQUITIES THAT WE TALK ABOUT.

I THINK WE JUST NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE SCHOOL FUNDING BETTER AND FIGURE OUT A BETTER FOR FUNDING FORMULA, TOO, FOR SCHOOLS.

>> IT IS AN ISSUE WE CAN'T IGNORE, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS ARE COMPETITORS TO STATE LEGISLATURES, IN FACT MANY OF THEM GO ON TO BECOME LEGISLATORS.

THEY HAVE BIG INFLUENCE IN THESE TOWNS AND IT IS ASKING LAWMAKERS TO GIVE CROSSWAYS TO SOME OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, IS ASKING A LOT OF A POLITICAL PLAYER.

>> I LOVE THESE SMALLER DISTRICTS, MARK, ARE IN RURAL AREAS.

WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE FOR THEM TO COMBINE?

WOULDN'T IT MEAN MORE AP CLASSES FOR THOSE STUDENTS IN RURAL AREAS THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE RIGHT NOW?

IS THERE A TRADE-OFF YOU CAN MAKE THE CASE FOR?

>> THERE IS A LOT THAT COULD BE DONE, YOU MENTIONED AP CLASSES, MAYBE SOMETHING COULD BE YOU COULD ALSO HAVE YOUR PAYROLL DONE BETWEEN SEVERAL DISTRICTS, YOU COULD HAVE SEVERAL OF YOUR CONTRACTING AGREEMENTS DONE WITH VENDORS.

THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE CONSOLIDATIONS WITHOUT FORCING DISTRICTS TO LOSE THEIR UNIQUENESS.

>> WHAT ABOUT INCENTIVES, JESSIE?

IS THE CARROT EASIER THAN THE STICK?

SAY, OKAY, PROPERTY TAXES ARE NOT CUTTING IT IN YOUR RURAL DISTRICT, COMBINED WITH YOUR NEIGHBORING RURAL DISTRICT WILL INCREASE FUNDING TO COVER THAT PROPERTY TAX DEFICIT?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE.

I MEAN, SCHOOL DISTRICTS FAMOUSLY LOVE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO BY OHIO LAWMAKERS.

SO, I WOULD SEE THAT BEING A TOUGH SELL, REGARDLESS OF IF THERE IS A STICK OR A CARROT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE INCENTIVES ARE THERE, WE COULD SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> WHO USED THE TERM "UPPER" JUST A MINUTE AGO?

>> THAT WAS ME.

>> WHY --THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR SCHOOL ISSUES --WHY ARE SCHOOL ISSUES SO HARD?

IS IT THE HARDEST ISSUE TO FIND A HOME FOR MICE IN, IN GOVERNMENT, SCHOOL ISSUES?

OR, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT COMPARES?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT COMPARES.

YOU ARE HAVING CONVERSATIONS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SESSIONS, SO THERE IS JUST A CONSTANT THOUGHT PROCESS ABOUT, HOW DO WE EDUCATE THE NEXT GENERATION OF STUDENTS?

IT IS AN IMPORTANT AND NECESSARY CONVERSATION, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT DOESN'T GO AWAY, AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT AGAIN, HOW TO ACTUALLY DO THE FUNDING, AS WELL, TOO.

>> MARK, COLUMBUS HAS TRIED TO CLOSE SCHOOLS, THEY CAN'T BECAUSE PARENTS PROTEST.

DUBLIN JUST RECENTLY WAS GOING TO REDISTRICT ITS HIGH SCHOOLS --STOPPED BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF OUTRAGE IN THE COMMUNITY.

CHANGING HOW SCHOOLS OPERATE IS VERY DIFFICULT.

WHY IS THAT?

>> WELL, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, A STUDENT INTERACTION WITH THE TEACHER IS THE LONGEST GOVERNMENT INTERACTION OUR FAMILIES HAVE ON A BASIS.

WE ARE CONSTANTLY INTERACTING WITH THE GOVERNMENT.

YES, WE DRIVE ON THE ROAD, THAT'S NOT A PERSON, WE PAY TAXES, THAT'S NOT A PERSON, BUT WE CARE ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY ARE AFFECTING OUR KIDS.

>> AND EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY BE A PARENT FOR MAYBE 30 YEARS, 25 TO 30 YEARS, YOU GET TO THE SCHOOL -- >> AND THEN YOU ARE PAYING TAXES ABOUT AND YOU ARE SORE THEY ARE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME MONEY ON THAT CLASSROOM AND STUFF YOU ADVOCATED FOR WHEN YOUR KID WAS IN THERE, TO SOME IRONY, THERE.

>> AND THEN THEY ASK FOR A LEVY EVERY THREE OR FOUR YEARS.

>>> ANYWAY, IT IS TIME NOW FOR OUR FINAL "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

MARK, YOU ARE FIRST.

>> WE ON THE WATERGATE WAS A ONE-TIME, CORRUPT, TERRIBLE THING ON THE FRONT PAGES OF THE COUNTRY.

THIS "ARCTIC FROST" SCANDAL, WHERE WE NOW KNOW JOE BIDEN'S MINIONS DID THINGS MUCH WORSE THAN WHAT WATERGATE AND VERY LITTLE COVERAGE, KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ARCTIC FROST INVESTIGATIONS.

>> STANLEY?

>> I WANT TO CONGRATULATE MY CROSS-COUNTRY TEAM, THEY FINISHED THEIR SEASON LAST WEEK, OUR BOYS AND GIRLS TEAM OF THE SAME AVERAGE THEY HAVE HAD ALL SEASON, THE BEST WE HAVE HAD IN 10 YEARS, SINCE I WAS ALMOST THERE, SO I AM VERY HAPPY FOR THEM, WE HAVE A BANQUET NEXT WEEK AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I SHOUT THEM OUT.

>> GOOD FOR YOU.

CONGRATULATIONS.

AND JESSIE?

>> MY COLLEAGUE TOOK A LOOK AT SOME OF THE FINANCES AND THE STRUGGLES OF CENTRAL STATE UNIVERSITY AND THE DATA IN THE PLACE WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A FIRE ALARM THAT WAS WORKING, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A ROUGH SITUATION AND GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO GET SORTED OUT.

>> LOOK FOR THAT IN THE DISPATCH, RIGHT?

DISPATCH.COM.

>>> THE GESTATION PERIOD FOR ASIAN ELEPHANTS IS BETWEEN 18 AND 22 MONTHS.

STAY WITH ME HERE, NOW.

SO, I DON'T THINK THE COLUMBUS ZOO, TWO YEARS AGO, BEGAN AN ELABORATE POLITICAL STRATEGY TO PASS ITS LEVY ON THE BALLOT.

BUT, EARLIER THIS MONTH, AS EARLY VOTING BEGAN, THE ZOO WELCOMED A NEW BABY ELEPHANT.

PHOEBE GAVE BIRTH TO A MALE CALF.

THE PUBLIC CAN SEE THE CALF STARTING FRIDAY, FOUR DAYS BEFORE ELECTION DAY.

IT'S LIKELY A COINCIDENCE, BUT IMAGES OF A CUTE BABY ELEPHANT CERTAINLY WON'T HURT THE ZOOS' LEVY CAMPAIGN.

CONGRATULATIONS TO PHOEBE, AND THE COLUMBUS ZOO.

THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK.

AND YOU CAN WATCH US ANYTIME ON YOUR OWN TIME, OUR WEBSITE -- WOSU.ORG/COTR, THE PBS VIDEO APP.

AND WE URGE YOU TO CHECK OUT THE BRAND NEW WOSU NEWS CHANNEL ON YOUTUBE.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.