>>> EVEN WITH NEW MAPS, OHIO'S PRIMARY DRIFTS TOWARD CHAOS.

JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, ANNA STAVER, STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR THE USA TODAY OHIO NETWORK.

DERRICK CLAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND BOB CLEGG, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

CHANGE THE MAP FIVE TIMES, DELAY A PRIMARY WITH NO NEW FILING DATES, WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

TO NO ONE'S SURPRISE, THE DELAYED OHIO PRIMARY FOR STATE LEGISLATIVE RACES IS A LITTLE CHAOTIC.

ON AUGUST 2nd, VOTERS WILL DECIDE PRIMARIES FOR HOUSE AND SENATE SEATS.

THEY WILL RUN IN DISTRICTS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY THE OHIO SUPREME COURT, BUT A FEDERAL COURT HAS ORDERED THE STATE TO USE THE MAPS.

THE PROBLEM IS CANDIDATES RUN ING UNDER THIS MAP HAD TO FILE PAPERS TO RUN THREE WEEKS BEFORE THEY WERE APPROVED.

THE STATE DID MAKE SOME ALLOWANCES FOR CANDIDATES TO MOVE, BUT THAT DEADLINE MAY HAVE PASSED.

SO SOME CANDIDATES FIND THEMSELVES IN NEW DISTRICTS.

SOME DISTRICTS HAVE TWO INCUMBENTS FROM THE SAME PARTY RUNNING AGAINST EACH OTHER.

OTHER DISTRICTS HAVE NO CANDIDATES FROM ONE OF THE MAJOR PARTIES, AND CANDIDATES, NO SURPRISE, HAVE FILED LAWSUITS.

ANNA STAVER, IS THIS GOING TO BE A MESS OR IS IT JUST AN ISOLATED MESS?

ISOLATED MESSES?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A MESS.

YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT JUST THE COLUMBUS AREA, ADAM MILLER, BEN LELAND, AND ALLISON ROUSSEAU ALL FOUND THEMSELVES IN THE SAME DISTRICT, AND THEY WERE LIKE, THAT WAS NOT OUR PLAN.

YOU EVEN LOOK ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, LAURA LINESE WHO JUST ANNOUNCED YESTERDAY THAT SHE'S RETIRING AND NOT RUNNING FOR REELECTION GOT DRAWN INTO A AND THEY NEVER INTENDED TO BE IN THAT SAME DISTRICT.

IT'S REALLY HARD TO RUN WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE LINES ARE GOING TO BE, AND THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THEY'RE MAKING.

RIGHT, LIKE WE, I THINK ADAM MILLER SAID I WOULD HAVE MOVED TO HAVE BEEN IN THE CORRECT DISTRICT SO THAT I DIDN'T RUN AGAINST MINORITY LEADER ROUSSEAU.

>> BOB, WHY DON'T YOU SET UP A NEW FILING DEADLINE, THIS IS UNUSUAL TIMES, WE WENT THROUGH THIS IN 2020.

>> SURE.

YOU'D THINK THAT YOU COULD DO THAT EXCEPT, YOU KNOW WHAT, THE FEDERAL COURT THAT PUT IN THESE LINES, BASICALLY, DIDN'T ADDRESS THE WHOLE ISSUE OF THE FILING DEADLINE, AND I FEEL THE SECRETARY OF STATE THINKS, WELL, I DON'T THINK I HAVE THE AUTHORITY SINCE THE COURT DIDN'T -- SINCE THE COURT IS IMPOSING THESE LINES, THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES THAT THEN CHANGE THE FILING DEADLINE.

>> I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH, THAT WAS GUIDANCE THE LOCAL COUNTY BOARDS OF ELECTIONS, NO ONE HAS CHANGED THE DEADLINES, WE HAVE TO STICK WITH WHAT WE HAD.

>> IS IT THAT EASY, JUST A BUREAUCRATIC NIGHTMARE.

>> THERE'S ONE COMMON DENOMINATOR IN ALL OF THIS, AND THIS IS THE OHIO REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THEY HAVE HAD SEVERAL ALMOST EVEN A COUPLE OF YEARS TO FIGURE THIS OUT, AND HERE WE ARE WITH, YOU KNOW, FOLKS WONDERING HOW THEY'RE GOING TO -- OR WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO RUN, WHAT THE DISTRICT LINES ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN WASTED FROM TAXPAYERS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT PROPERLY WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS IN A WAY THAT THE VOTERS INTENDED US TO.

>> DEMOCRATS, ANNA, SMELL A LITTLE BIT OF A CONSPIRACY HERE IN THIS THREE DEMOCRATS STRONGISH CANDIDATES ARE ALL IN THE SAME DISTRICT NOW.

>> YEAH, SO WHAT THEY BASICALLY ARE SAYING, I BELIEVE FEBRUARY 2nd WAS THE ORIGINAL FILING DEADLINE, AND THESE MAPS CAME OUT AT THE END OF FEBRUARY.

THEY WERE THE THIRD ITERATION OF MAPS FOR PEOPLE KEEPING TRACK AT HOME.

THE ARGUMENT THEY'RE MAKING IS YOU COULD HAVE KNOWN WHEN YOU WERE DRAWING THE MAPS BECAUSE OF THE FILING DEADLINE, THE ADDRESSES OF EVERY CANDIDATE WHO WAS RUNNING BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO LIST THAT AS PART OF THE RECORD OF YOUR FILING, AND SO THEY MAKE THE CASE THAT THEORETICALLY OR THEY BELIEVE POSSIBLY THAT REPUBLICANS USED THAT TO DRAW THEM INTO DISTRICTS TOGETHER.

NOW, WE HAVE NO PROOF OF THAT, BUT THE ARGUMENT IS THIS INFORMATION WAS OUT THERE BECAUSE THE DEADLINE TO FILE HAD ALREADY PASSED.

>> THAT'S A TACTIC IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

>> OH, SURE.

>> THAT'S BEEN GOING ON, DEMOCRATS DO IT TO REPUBLICANS, REPUBLICANS DO IT TO DEMOCRATS, I DON'T THINK REPUBLICANS WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T THAT MANY INSTANCES LIKE THAT.

AS YOU SAID, THERE WERE REPUBLICANS THAT ENDED UP IN DISTRICTS WITH EACH OTHER TOO, SO NO, AND WE ALSO HAVE TO SAY SINCE THE DEMOCRATS WOULDN'T AGREE TO NEW LINES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN IN ANOTHER FOUR YEARS, BECAUSE THESE LINES THAT WE HAVE NOW AREN'T GOING TO LAST THAT LONG.

>> ACTUALLY, IT COULD BE SOONER THAN THAT, BOB, IT'S A NEVER ENDING PROCESS.

DERRICK, OF COURSE GOING TO PUT A NEW DEADLINE, YOU COULD MAKE A NEW FILING DEADLINE THAT WOULD OPEN UP THE RACES TO ADDITIONAL CANDIDATES WHICH MAY CAUSE A LITTLE BIT OF CHAOS, AT LEAST EVERYONE CAN RUN IN A DISTRICT THAT THEY KNOW IS THEIRS.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, AND JUST WANTED TO QUICKLY GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT BOB SAID.

I MEAN, THE DEMOCRATS TRIED, DEMOCRATS TRIED TO NEGOTIATE.

>> SO DID REPUBLICANS.

>> TRIED TO NEGOTIATE.

>> SO DID REPUBLICANS.

>> AND SO MANY TIMES, THE REPUBLICANS REFUSED TO MEET WITH THE DEMOCRATS, WOULD NOT GIVE THEM INFORMATION, KEPT INFORMATION FROM THEM SO THAT THEY COULD ADVANCE THIS PROCESS, AND IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> MIKE, THINGS COULD BE WORSE BECAUSE TODAY IT WAS ANNOUNCED IN NEW YORK STATE ALL OF THEIR ASSEMBLY LINES HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT, SO WE COULD HAVE A SITUATION WHERE IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED EVEN LATER IN THE PROCESS.

>> YEAH, SO ANNA, WHAT IS THE -- ANY THOUGHT AT THE STATE HOUSE WHAT THE COURTS MIGHT DO?

THERE WERE TWO STATES BACK TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT AGAIN AND ALSO A FEDERAL CASE?

>> YEAH, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHETHER THEY'RE GOING -- THERE'S A COUPLE OF OPTIONS, THE CANDIDATES SAYING I FILED BUT GOT MOVED INTO A WEIRD DISTRICT, THEY COULD LET THEM MOVE INTO A DISTRICT OF THEIR CHOICE OR ANOTHER DISTRICT.

THEY COULD OPEN UP TO EVERYBODY AND CAUSE A LITTLE CHAOS AT THE SAME TIME IT COULD BE THE MOST FAIR OR DO NONE OF IT.

THE FILING DEADLINE IS 90 DAYS BEFORE THE PRIMARY, TECHNICALLY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MAY.

IT'S HARD TO PREDICT WHAT THE COURT IS GOING TO DO BUT I IMAGINE THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING GIVEN THE WAY THIS HAS ALL SHOOK OUT.

>> AND WE ALSO HAVE A TIME FRAME WE GOT TO DEAL WITH HERE IN THAT, YOU KNOW, ABSENTEE BALLOTS HAVE TO BE READY FOR THE MILITARY, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE -- WE'RE GETTING PRETTY CLOSE TO COMING UP AGAINST THAT KIND OF A DEADLINE.

>> WE START VOTING IN, WHAT, TWO WEEKS, TWO AND A HALF WEEKS WE'RE VOTING.

AND THE TRIAL WILL BE HUGE FOR THIS ONE.

NO GOVERNOR.

>> WELL, FOR EXECUTIVE AND CONGRESSIONAL OFFICES, PRIMARY VOTERS SETTLED THEIR RACES A MONTH AGO, AND THE RACE FOR U.S. SENATE IS A MAJOR FOCUS.

THE LATEST POLL SHOWS J.D.

VANCE WITH A SLIGHT LEAD OVER CONGRESSMAN TIM RYAN, THEY'RE BASICALLY TIED BECAUSE THE LEAD IS WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR.

TIM RYAN CONTINUES TO RUN LOTS OF ADS ON LOCAL TV STATIONS, INTRODUCING HIMSELF TO VOTERS, J.D.

VANCE HAS BEEN LAYING LOW, HIS CAMPAIGN FACES COMPLAINTS THAT IT ILLEGALLY COORDINATED WITH THE SUPERPAC.

TIM RYAN IS ON NEWS PROGRAMS, INTRODUCING TO VOTERS.

J.D.

VANCE IS GETTING CRITICISM THAT HE'S LAYING TOO LOW, AND LETTING TIM RYAN HAVE THE STAGE, ANYTHING VALIDITY TO THAT ARGUMENT?

>> WITH THE KIND OF POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS YEAR, TIM RYAN SHOULD BE ON 24/7 BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO NEED ALL THE HELP HE CAN GET, I MEAN, IT'S AN AWFUL ENVIRONMENT FOR DEMOCRATS.

A DEMOCRAT WINNING STATEWIDE IN OHIO IN A NEUTRAL YEAR IS TOUGH, LET ALONE IN A YEAR WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE A REPUBLICAN WAVE.

TIM RYAN HAS GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS, AND THE TV COMMERCIALS AREN'T GOING TO HELP HIM.

>> POLLS SHOW HIM COMPETITIVE.

>> HE'S BEEN ON THE BALLOT HOW MANY TIMES.

IT'S YOUNGSTOWN, BUT HE'S BEEN IN AN OFFICE FOR 20 YEARS.

J.D.

VANCE HAS NEVER BEEN IN AN OFFICE.

YEAH, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME NAME RECOGNITION THERE THAT J.D.

VANCE DOESN'T HAVE, BUT I THINK WHEN THE FALL COMES, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF J.D.

VANCE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO BE SEEING HIM TALK ABOUT HOW TIM RYAN'S RESPONSIBLE FOR $5 GASOLINE AND 8.6 INFLATION.

YOU KNOW, SO, YEAH, I MEAN, RIGHT NOW WITH THIS KIND OF ENVIRONMENT, I DON'T THINK J.D.

VANCE HAS TO BE DOING COMMERCIALS.

>> THEY'RE CERTAINLY FOR $5 GAS, AND HE WOULD GO OVER TO THE GAS AND TURN IT UP TO $5.

>> HE WOULD AGREE WITH HIS PRESIDENT, JOE BIDEN TO SHUT DOWN THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE.

THAT LEADS TO $5 GAS, TRUST ME.

>> THE POLLS SHOW THAT AT THIS POINT HE'S COMPETITIVE TIM RYAN, THAT HAS TO HELP HIM RAISE MONEY, IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE GOALS OF HIS EARLY CAMPAIGN BLITZ.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT JUST SHOWS THAT TIM RYAN KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.

HE'S RUN A VERY PROFESSIONAL CAMPAIGN, YOU KNOW.

AS I'VE SAID ON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE, HE'S THE ORIGINAL AMERICA FIRST CANDIDATE.

THIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW DEBACLE THAT J.D.

VANCE IS INVOLVED IN JUST SHOWS HOW MUCH OF AN AMATEUR HE IS.

>> THERE'S A SUPER PAC THAT WAS SUPPORTING J.D.

VANCE AND HIS CAMPAIGN.

THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO COORDINATE.

THE SUPER PAC HAD A PUBLIC WEB SITE THAT EVERYONE COULD SEE THE INFORMATION, INCLUDING THE VANCE CAMPAIGN.

THE VANCE CAMPAIGN KNEW WHERE TO GET IT.

IT'S A RUN AROUND THE LAW.

THAT'S WHAT THE COMPLAINTS ARE ABOUT.

>> OHIO CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE AN AMATEUR REPRESENTING THEM.

$5 GAS, THE STAKES ARE TOO HIGH RIGHT NOW AND WE JUST CAN'T HAVE SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO APPLY THE RULES, FOLLOW THE RULES ON THEIR CAMPAIGN HELPING TO REPRESENT US IN OHIO.

>> THE OTHER BIG RACE IS THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, THE POLL SHOWS THAT THAT SAME POLL THAT WAS TAKEN ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO SHOWS THAT MIKE DEWINE HAS A BIG LEAD, 15 POINTS, NIEL PETERSEN WAS IN THE POLL, HE MAY NOT BE ON THE BALLOT.

THEY'RE STILL ANALYZING SIGNATURES AND MIGHT BE ANOTHER WRINKLE AS WELL.

>> APPARENTLY WE CAN'T GET OUR BALLOTS STRAIGHT NO MATTER WHAT RACE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YEAH, HE IS CONSERVATIVE.

VERY FAR TO THE RIGHT OF GOVERNOR MIKE DEWINE.

I THINK THAT'S A FAIR ASSESSMENT BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT HOW HE FILED TO GET ON THE BALLOT AND WE'LL HAVE TO KIND OF WAIT, AGAIN, TO SEE IF HE MAKES IT.

WHAT I FIND MOST INTERESTING ABOUT THAT POLL IS HOW WELL HE WAS DOING WITH, LIKE, NO TELEVISION, VIRTUALLY NO NAME I.D., AND I THINK THAT IS KIND OF A REFLECTION OF WHAT WE SAW IN THE PRIMARY, THAT CONSERVATIVES LIKE FARTHER RIGHT OF THE SPECTRUM AREN'T SUPER THRILLED WITH MIKE DEWINE.

I'M STARTING TO WONDER, AND WHO KNOWS IF WE MIGHT GET A SITUATION LIKE WE HAD WITH BILL CLINTON IN THE 90s WHERE DEWINE WINS BUT MAYBE DOESN'T CLEAR 50% AT THE END OF THE DAY.

>> ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, ACCORDING TO CLEVELAND.COM IS THAT NIEL PETERSEN VOTED IN THE MAY PRIMARY AS A REPUBLICAN.

NOW HE'S AN INDEPENDENT.

>> THAT'S THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE HIS DEADLINE TO FILE AS AN INDEPENDENT WAS PRIMARY DAY.

SO ON THE VERY DAY THAT HE, YOU KNOW, HAD A DEADLINE TO FILE AS AN INDEPENDENT, HE'S DECLARING HIMSELF AS A REPUBLICAN.

>> DID HE VOTE EARLY?

WE DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE HE VOTED EARLY.

>> TRUE.

>> MAYBE HE VOTED A MONTH EARLY AND THEN CHANGED HIS MIND.

>> I THINK ON THAT, LET ALONE WHETHER HE HAD ENOUGH VALID SIGNATURES, ON THAT ALONE, I THINK HE SHOULD BE PUSHED OFF THE BALLOT.

>> THAT'S NOT GOOD NEWS FOR DEMOCRATS IF MR. PETERSEN IS NOT ON THE BALLOT, RIGHT?

>> THIS IS A RACE THAT WE GOT A LOT OF RUNWAY TO GO, YOU KNOW, THE MERE FACT THAT TIM RYAN IS WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE OF OR I SHOULD SAY J.D.

VANCE IS IN STRIKING DISTANCE OF BEATING TIM RYAN, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE GOT A LOT OF RUNWAY TO GO ON THIS ELECTION.

>> YOU MENTIONED INFLATION, YOU MENTIONED HIGH GAS PRICES, THE LAST TIME WE HAD A SEVERE RECESSION, WE HAD A GOVERNOR SEEKING REELECTION WHO HAD A HARD TIME WITH SOME MEMBERS OF HIS PARTY.

TED STRICKLAND, HE LOST.

>> HE DID.

>> SO WE HAVE A SIMILAR THREAT OF RECESSION.

MIKE DEWINE HAS SOME PROBLEMS WITHIN HIS PARTY, SHOULD HE BE WORRIED?

>> I DON'T THINK, YEAH, HE NEEDS TO BE WORRIED BUT NOT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE ECONOMIC ISSUES.

I MEAN, HE CAN POINT INTEL AND ALL OF THE GREAT PRODUCING STUFF HE'S DONE.

NO, HIS PROBLEM IS THE RIGHT, THE RIGHT WING OF THE PARTY, AND IT'S ALL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, COVID AND ALL OF THE THINGS HE DID THERE.

IT'S MORE THAT RELATED.

IT'S NOT RELATED TO THAT.

PLUS, I THINK RIGHT NOW, MOST OHIO VOTERS UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE ECONOMY IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IN THE LAST OF JOE BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATS AND IT'S BEEN A FEDERAL THING WITH ALL OF THEIR SPENDING AND ALL THEY'RE DOING TO TRY TO SHUT DOWN OUR ENERGY PRODUCTION THAT HAS RESULTED IN WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.

>> CAN TIM RYAN RUN AGAINST THE ECONOMY, CAN DEMOCRATS RUN AGAINST THE ECONOMY AND TARGET MIKE DEWINE BUT ALSO THAT'S GOING TO BLOW BACK ON TIM RYAN.

>> DOING IT RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE RUNNING ON THE FAILED POLICIES OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BOTTOM LINE.

WE'RE RUNNING ON THE FAILED POLICIES OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> HE HASN'T BEEN PRESIDENT IN A YEAR AND A HALF.

>> AND WE'RE STILL SUFFERING FROM IT.

WE'RE STILL SUFFERING FROM IT.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOUSE BILL 6, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DAYTON SHOOTING AND THE NONACTION FROM THE REPUBLICANS ON THE GUN ISSUE, ABORTION, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO WORK TOWARDS THE ADVANTAGE OF THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

>> ONE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENED WAS THE JANUARY 6TH HEARINGS BEGAN ON THURSDAY NIGHT, HERE IN COLUMBUS, ONE OUT OF EVERY THREE TELEVISIONS WAS WATCHING THOSE HEARINGS, ANNA.

IT'S ON PEOPLE'S MINDS, WHETHER THAT CONTINUES, IT WAS PRIME TIME, PEOPLE COULD WATCH TV, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SPORTS ON LAST NIGHT.

THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE ON, I GUESS, BUT THAT COULD BE A FACTOR IN THIS.

>> IT COULD BE.

YOU SAW MARCY CAPTOR TALK ABOUT IT SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE HER OPPONENT, JARED MAJEWSKI, I HOPE I'M SAYING THAT CORRECT, I APOLOGIZE IF I GOT IT WRONG, BUT HE WAS THERE ON THE DAY OF THE RIOT AT THE CAPITOL, AND SHE MAKES SOME ALLEGATIONS ABOUT HIS INVOLVEMENT AND WHETHER THAT SHOULD DISQUALIFY HIM FROM OFFICE, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A VERY CLOSELY WATCHED POP UP RACE.

IT'S ONE WHERE I THINK REPUBLICANS THINK THEY CAN PICK IT UP, BUT CAPTOR IS A SEASONED, WELL FUNDED POLITICIAN.

>> J.D.

VANCE SAYS THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD IN THE 2020 ELECTION, THERE WASN'T.

AND A BIG TECH CONSPIRACY THAT LED TO TRUMP'S DEFEAT.

>> YEAH.

>> THAT'S GOING TO BE RAISED IN THE ISSUE.

IS HE VULNERABLE ON THAT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE $5 GASOLINE IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THAT.

I MEAN PEOPLE, WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT PEOPLE THAT ARE STRUGGLING TO DECIDE WHETHER SHOULD I FILL UP MY GAS TANK OR BUY GROCERIES FOR MY KIDS.

OKAY, I MEAN, THIS IS THE KIND OF THING REAL PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN WHEN PEOPLE GO TO THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER.

>> ON THAT LIST YOU JUST DID, ARE YOU GETTING AWAY FROM THE ECONOMIC ISSUES WHICH IS ACCORDING TO THE POLLS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES TO VOTERS.

>> I DON'T THINK WE'RE GETTING AWAY FROM THOSE ISSUES.

THOSE ISSUES ARE IN ADDITION TO THE ECONOMIC ISSUES.

THE COUNTRY IS IN A TOUGH PLACE RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DIVIDED AS A COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, INFLATION IS OFF THE ROOF, AGAIN, DUE TO TRUMP POLICIES.

SO, I MEAN, WE ARE IN A BAD SITUATION RIGHT NOW, AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE VOTING MORE SO ON THEIR CONSCIENCE AND WANTING TO GET BACK TO SOME SENSE OF NORMALCY THAT THEY KNEW BEFORE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS IN OFFICE.

>> I THOUGHT WE HAD NORMALCY WHEN WE VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT?

>> WE HAVE SHORT MEMORIES.

>> ANYWAY, THE OHIO HOUSE HAS VOTED TO BAN TRANSGENDER GIRLS AND WOMEN FROM JOINING FEMALE HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE SPORTS TEAMS.

SUPPORTERS OF THE MOVE ARGUE ITS UNFAIR FOR ATHLETES BORN BIOLOGICALLY MALE TO COMPETE AGAINST FEMALES.

LGBT ADVOCATES AND OTHERS CALL IT DISCRIMINATORY.

THE OHIO HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION SAYS IT'S A NON-ISSUE.

IT HAS RULES IN PLACE AND OHIO HAD JUST FIVE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES COMPETING THIS SCHOOL YEAR.

THE NCAA HAS HAD RULES IN PLACE FOR YEARS.

THE BAN WAS TACKED ON TO ANOTHER BILL, AND THE SENATE WON'T ACT ON IT UNTIL THE FALL.

ANNA STAVER, HE SAYS WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE BUT DIDN'T SEEM TOO EXCITED ABOUT IT, AND DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY THE HOUSE HANDLED IT.

>> FOR ONE THING IT WAS PASSED AT 11:00 ON A WEDNESDAY BEFORE THEY BROKE FOR THE SUMMER.

ONE OF THE ISSUES HE HAS AND THE CAUCUS HAS IS THESE BILLS HAVE NEVER HAD OPPONENT TESTIMONY.

THEY HAVE HAD TWO HEARINGS IN THE HOUSE.

YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM ALL SIDES, ESPECIALLY ON SUCH A CONTROVERSIAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BUT IT ALSO CAME WITH A -- THERE'S A CLAUSE IN THIS PARTICULAR ONE THAT PASSED THE HOUSE THAT DEALS WITH HOW YOU WOULD VERIFY THE ANATOMY OF A STUDENT ATHLETE, AND THE DEMOCRATS AND DOCTORS AND LGBTQ ADVOCATES HAVE KIND OF JUMPED ON THIS, AND BECAUSE IT INCLUDES AN INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL EXAM, AND EVEN THE CENTER FOR CHRISTIAN VIRTUE, A VERY CONSERVATIVE GROUP HERE, THEY SUPPORT THESE LEGISLATIONS THEY WERE LIKE, WE DON'T SUPPORT THIS PARTICULAR VERIFICATION.

SEEMS LIKE THE SENATE PRESIDENT IS ON THAT PAGE.

>> THIS IS NOT A REAL SIMPLE ISSUE.

THERE ARE SOME LGBTQ ATHLETES WHO SAY THAT TRANSGENDER FEMALES SHOULD NOT BE COMPETING, AT LEAST ON THE ELITE LEVEL WITH FEMALES.

IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE AS FAR AS THE ATHLETES ARE CONCERNED AS THE POLITICIANS WOULD HAVE IT.

>> IT IS A VERY POLARIZING ISSUE, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE STUDIED MORE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE ISSUE WITH THIS ISSUE AND SO IT'S JUST GOING TO HAVE TO BE STUDIED MORE.

>> BOB, WHY NOT LEAVE THIS TO THE GOVERNING BODIES OF THE SPORTS.

I MEAN, WHY DO LAWMAKERS NEED TO GET INVOLVED.

WE DON'T HAVE A STATE LAW ABOUT WRESTLING CLASSES OR WHAT DRUGS ARE BANNED IN TRACK AND FIELD.

>> MIKE, I AGREE FULLY.

THERE ARE AREAS WHERE I THINK GOVERNMENT HAS NO BUSINESS BEING INVOLVED, AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ONE OF THEM.

SANCTIONING A MARRIAGE, I THINK, IS ANOTHER ONE, PERSONALLY.

I BELIEVE.

I DON'T THINK GOVERNMENTS SHOULD BE IN THE BUSINESS OF DECIDING WHO CAN GET MARRIED, AND WHO CAN'T GET MARRIED.

BUT THIS IS ONE WHERE I THINK YOU HAVE TO RELY ON THE NCAA, ON THE COLLEGE LEVEL, AND THE HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION, OBVIOUSLY, ON A HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL TO COME UP WITH RULES TO DEAL WITH THIS.

I UNDERSTAND THE UNFAIRNESS THAT PEOPLE FEEL AND WE SAW THAT WITH THIS SWIMMER AT PENN.

YOU KNOW, WE SAW HOW, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT WAS A BIOLOGICAL MALE THAT WENT THROUGH PUBERTY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, TRANSGENDERS OVER, IT DOES GIVE THAT PERSON AN ATHLETIC ADVANTAGE.

YOU GOT TO DEAL WITH THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE THE ONE DICTATING HOW THAT'S GOING TO BE DONE.

>> ADVOCATES FOR LGBTQ FOLKS SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS COULD BE POTENTIALLY HARMFUL TO YOUNG ATHLETES IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY SUSCEPTIBLE TO MENTAL ILLNESS AND THE SUICIDE RATE AMONG TRANSGENDER FOLKS IS PRETTY HIGH.

>> SPORTS ARE OFTEN A WAY TO COMBAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT BEING ON A TEAM PLAYING WITH YOUR PEERS IS A WAY TO FEEL INCLUDED AND, YOU KNOW, THE ENDORPHINS AND THE POSITIVE, LIKE, EMOTIONS THAT YOU FEEL FROM SUCCESS AND VICTORY IN A SPORTS TEAM, AND THE CAMARADERIE YOU GET.

THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE TO SPORTS THAT ISN'T ALWAYS ATTACHED TO A SCHOLARSHIP, AND THEY ALSO MAKE THE CASE THAT, YOU KNOW, LOOK, A LOT, LIKE WHAT IS IT, 2% OF HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES GO ON TO PLAY, LIKE, DIVISION ONE, LESS THAN THAT GO ON TO PLAY AT COLLEGE.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE KIDS, THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY THAT GOOD REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE A BOY OR GIRL, THEY'RE PLAYING MORE FOR THE CAMARADERIE AND THE TEAMSMANSHIP.

>>> LAST TOPIC, MORE THAN TWO YEARS AFTER VIOLENT CLASHES BETWEEN COLUMBUS POLICE AND PROTESTERS IN DOWNTOWN, COLUMN BY CITY COUNCIL PUT LIMITS ON HOW OFFICERS CAN USE FORCE AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTERS.

THE NEW ORDINANCE RESTRICTS HOW POLICE USE PEPPER SPRAY, TEAR GAS, AS WELL AS RUBBER AND WOOD BULLETS TO BREAK UP NON-VIOLENT PROTESTS.

IT ALSO PUTS RESTRICTIONS ON THE USE OF MILITARY STYLE EQUIPMENT AND VEHICLES AS WELL AS POLICE HEADQUARTERS.

THE MOVE COMES AFTER POLICE WERE CRITICIZED FOR THEIR RESPONSE TO THE PROTESTERS, AND THE CITY HAS PAID OUT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SETTLEMENTS FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

THE DIVISION OF POLICE HAD ALREADY IMPLEMENTED MANY OF THE CHANGES, BUT NOW IT'S CITY LAW.

DERRICK CLAY, DO YOU THINK THIS WILL HELP THE NEXT TIME THERE'S A EMOTIONAL POTENTIALLY VIOLENT PROTEST DOWNTOWN?

>> WELL, HOPEFULLY WE WON'T SEE THOSE TYPES OF PROTESTS AGAIN IN OUR CITY.

IT WAS VERY UNFORTUNATE, YOU KNOW, WHAT EVEN LED TO THE PROTESTS.

BUT I THINK THAT THIS GOT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, ATTENTION AND ESPECIALLY IN THE COLUMBUS COMMUNITY BECAUSE OUR CONGRESSWOMAN, J JOYCE BATY, KEVIN BOYCE, AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT SHANNON HERNDON GOT PEPPER SPRAYED BY THE COLUMBUS POLICE.

WHAT THIS SHOULD TELL US IS WE NEED TO HAVE MORE TRAINING FOR DEESCALATION.

WE DEFINITELY NEED TO HAVE CULTURAL SENSITIVITY TRAINING, AND, YOU KNOW, HOW TO DEESCALATE THESE PROTESTS BEFORE THEY EVEN FORM OR BEGIN.

>> IS DEFINING A PEACEFUL PROTEST GOING TO BE HARD.

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REAL HARD, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WALK THAT LINE.

I THINK THIS IS GREAT AS LONG AS THE POLICE, THE FOP, EVERYBODY AGREES TO IT, BUT MY CONCERN S LIKE, HOW DO YOU DEFINE, OKAY, THIS IS NOW A NONVIOLENT, FIVE MINUTES LATER BECAME VIOLENT.

IS IT, YOU KNOW, ONE PERSON GETTING HIT.

IS IT A BRICK BEING THROWN.

I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE LEGISLATION ADDRESSES THAT ISSUE AT ALL.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT, IF IT DOESN'T.

>> IT COMES DOWN TO, ANNA, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS PERMISSIBLE UNDER A PEACEFUL PROTEST, WHEN YOU BLOCK, YOU KNOW, HIGH STREET AND CARS NEED TO GET THROUGH, YOU DON'T HAVE A PERMIT TO BLOCK HIGH STREET, WHAT DO POLICE DO, DO THEY JUST LET IT GO UNTIL IT FIZZLES OUT OR OPEN UP THE STREET.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WHEN THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT POLICE REFORM AT A STATE LEVEL, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A RYE THE YO.

FIVE OR SIX INDIVIDUALS BLOCKING TRAFFIC CAN MEET THE DEFINITION OF A RIOT.

THAT COULD BE THE LEGAL MOMENT WHERE YOU SAY IT'S NOT LONGER PEACEFUL BECAUSE THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW, BUT THEN AGAIN IS THAT VIOLENT OR WOULD MOST PEOPLE SEE THAT AS BEING VIOLENT OR WOULD THAT JUSTIFY A RUBBER BULLET?

IT'S A VERY GRAY AREA OF THE LAW, AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG CHALLENGE, NOT ONLY FOR COLUMBUS BUT SORT OF STATEWIDE AS WE, LIKE, LOOK AT HOW WE WANT TO HANDLE THESE TYPES OF EVENT .

>> IDEAL PROTEST, POLICE WOULD SHOW UP, PROTESTERS STAY WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO.

THIS ONE STARTED OUT ROUGH.

THEY WERE BREAKING WINDOWS AND DAMAGING PROPERTY, AND VEHICLES AND EVEN DURING THE COURSE OF THE PROTESTS THEY'RE THROWING BOTTLES OF WATER AND OTHER HEAVY OBJECTS AT POLICE.

HOW DO POLICE PROTECT THEMSELVES UNDER THESE RULES.

>> IT'S TOUGH, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY TOUGH.

I MEAN, IF YOU'RE A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, YOU HAVE TRAINING, YOU KNOW, BUT IT GOES BACK TO THE WHOLE THING THAT MIKE TYSON SAID, EVERYBODY HAS A PLAN UNTIL THEY GET HIT IN THE MOUTH.

RIGHT.

AND THEN ONCE YOU GET HIT WITH SOMETHING, THEN YOUR INSTINCT TAKES OVER, SO, YOU KNOW, THE BEST THING THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN DO IS TRY TO PROVIDE AS MUCH TRAINING AS POSSIBLE FOR THOSE TYPES OF SCENARIOS, AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.

>> BODY CAMERAS, BOB, AND ALSO ONE OF THESE NEW RULES IS THEY HAVE TO THEIR NAME, AND BADGE OUTSIDE, NO MATTER WHAT THEY'RE WEARING.

>> I THINK THAT'S ALL GOOD STUFF.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO SEE A CHILLING EFFECT IN ALL OF THIS WITH REGARDS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FIGHTING A PRETTY BIG CRIME WAVE AS IT IS RIGHT NOW.

AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SITUATION WHERE POLICE OFFICERS FEEL EVEN, YOU KNOW, LESS WILLING TO ENGAGE BECAUSE THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS, AND BOB CLEGG, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

>> A NEW CONGRESSIONAL DASHBOARD WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO GO INTO A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT AND LOOK AT THE MOST INTERNET SEARCHED TERMS, AND IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THEM HERE IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, DISTRICT 3, JOYCE BATYS, IT'S REFUGEES AND GAY ADOPTIONS AND MIKE KERRY'S, ELECTION SECURITY AND GUNS.

THAT TELLS YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THOSE TWO DISTRICTS.

>> THERE'S GERRYMANDERING ON DISPLAY RIGHT THERE.

DERRICK CLAY.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK, THE STATE HOUSE IS GOING TO GAIN ONE MORE PORTRAIT OF A SENATE PRESIDENT, LARRY ABHOFF WAS HONORED AS THE FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT AND HIS PORTRAIT WAS UNVEILED IN THE STATE HOUSE.

>> THE SAME ARTIST WHO DID BILLY JOEL'S.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

INTERESTING.

>> ANNA.

>> AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF GUN LEGISLATION GOES INTO EFFECT NEXT MONDAY, THE CONSTITUTIONAL OR PERMIT LIST CARRY SO FOLKS WILL NO LONGER NEED TO HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE TO CARRY A WEAPON THIS THEIR PURSE OR JACKET AND I JUST KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THIS LAW IS CHANGING AND IT'S GOING TO START NEXT WEEK.

>> PREPARING FOR IT, AND WHAT THE NEW RULES MIGHT MEAN FOR THEM.

MY OFF THE RECORD COMMENT IS THAT HEARINGS STARTED THIS WEEK IN PRIME TIME.

THEY WILL CONTINUE THIS COMING WEEK, MONDAY, WEDNESDAY, AND THURSDAY.

MONDAY AND WEDNESDAY START AT 10:00 A.M., THURSDAY STARTS AT 1:00 P.M. YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THOSE HEARINGS AT OUR WEB SITE, WOSU.ORG, AND WOSU TV HERE, AND 89 NPR NEWS, LIVE COVERAGE OF THE HEARINGS AND WRAP UPS IN NEWSCASTS AND THE PBS NEWS HOUR.

CHECK IT OUT.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, WATCH US ON DEMAND AT WOSU.ORG OR THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND FOR OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.