>>> THE TRUMP EFFECT ON OHIO'S U.S. SENATE PRIMARY.

♪♪ >>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

WITH DONALD TRUMP'S CLEAR VICTORY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE'RE NOT SURE IF OHIO VOTERS WILL HAVE MUCH OF A SAY IN THE GOP PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY.

BUT OHIO REPUBLICANS WILL PICK A U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE TO TAKE ON SHERROD BROWN.

THIS WEEK, MATT DOLAN, FRANK LaROSE, AND BERNIE MORENO MET FOR A DEBATE.

THEY TRIED TO ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH TRUMP.

THEY ALL SUPPORTED SOME KIND OF NATIONAL ABORTION BAN WITH MORE STRICT RESTRICTIONS THAN WHAT OHIO VOTERS APPROVED.

THEY PROMISED TO BE TOUGH ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER AND TO GET TOUGH ON MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS WHO SENT FENTANYL NORTH -- SEND FENTANYL NORTH.

ONE CANDIDATE WAS TOUGHER THAN THE OTHERS.

>> THE DEFINITION OF A FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION IS A GROUP THAT'S WILLING TO KILL OUR FELLOW AMERICANS.

THESE CARTELS ARE KILLING OVER 200 AMERICANS A DAY WITH THE FENTANYL THAT THEY'RE BRINGING TO THIS COUNTRY.

WE KNOW THAT THIS COMES FROM CHINA MIXED TOGETHER IN MEXICO.

WE MUST DEFINE THESE CARTELS AS FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS AND USE THE FULL FORCE OF THE U.S. MILITARY AND THE U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO KILL THEM SO THAT THEY CAN'T KILL OUR FELLOW AMERICANS.

>> BUT IF WE HAVE THAT KIND OF RHETORIC, MEXICO WILL ELECT A VERY ANTI-AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH MEXICO TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND IT'S IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS TO HAVE US HELP THEM WIPE OUT THE DRUG CARTELS.

WHEN WE START ACTING LIKE THE UGLY AMERICAN GOING INTO MEXICO, INDISCRIMINATELY BOMB YOU, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE CREDIBILITY WITH WHAT NEEDS TO BE OUR PARTNER IN WIPING OUT THE DRUG CARTELS.

>> IT'S INTERESTING THAT, BERNIE, YOU ALSO CALLED OUT FOR THE DESTRUCTION FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH OF THESE CARTELS.

THAT'S AN IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENT.

LOOK, WE HAVE GOT TO NOT JUST WORK WITH THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, I WOULD PUSH THE ADMINISTRATION TO GO TO MEXICO CITY AND YOU KNOW THAT AID WE EMPLOY, YOU KNOW THAT -- PROVIDE, YOU KNOW THAT TRADE WE'RE INVOLVED WITH?

THAT'S GOING TO END IF YOU DON'T JOIN FORCES WITH US AND DEFEAT AND ERADICATE THE MEXICAN CARTELS.

>> JULIE CARR SMYTH, PRIMARIES ARE ALWAYS A RACE TO THE RIGHT, BUT THAT WAS PRETTY FAR RIGHT, WHAT FRANK LaROSE SAID THERE.

>> YES.

I THINK SO.

AND WHAT WE SAW IN THIS DEBATE WAS THAT NOW MORENO HAS THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT.

AND DOLAN IS RUNNING AS A MORE MODERATE CANDIDATE WHO HAS NEVER REALLY SOUGHT THAT ENDORSEMENT.

WE'RE WATCHING LaROSE TRY TO FIND HIS LANE HERE, AND THE VERY DAY OF THE DEBATE HE HAD CALLED FOR THREE PARTICULAR UNITS OF THE MILITARY TO GO INTO THE BORDER -- AS HE SAID, YOU KNOW, HE WANTS TO SEE THEM ANNIHILATED.

I THINK THIS IS ALSO A WAY FOR HIM TO PLAY UP HIS MILITARY BACKGROUND WHICH IS ONE OF HIS CALLING CARDS FOR VOTERS.

BUT YEAH, IT'S PUSHING FAR TO THE RIGHT.

THE REASON WHY IS A LITTLE UNCLEAR NOW BECAUSE TRUMP'S ALREADY ENDORSED.

>> THIS WASN'T A GAFFE BECAUSE FRANK LaROSE'S SUPER PAC HAS AN AD SAYING WE SHOULD USE MILITARY INTERVENTION, AND COLLEEN MARSHALL ASKED HIM WOULD YOU USE DRONES, AND HE BASICALLY SAID, SURE, WE'D BOMB MEXICO.

COULD THAT BACKFIRE ON HIM IN THE PRIMARY DO YOU THINK?

>> I DON'T THINK SO, MIKE.

I MEAN -- DO YOU KNOW ANYBODY THAT'S COUNTRY LIBERAL, CONSERVATIVE, WHAT HAVE YOU, THAT WOULDN'T LIKE TO SEE THE CARTELS GO AWAY?

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE AT ANY RISK AT ALL.

THE PROBLEM I SEE IS MEXICO -- AND THESE AREN'T FIGURES THAT I KNOW SPECIFICALLY, BUT THEY'RE CLOSE -- THERE'S A LARGE SWATH OF MEXICO THAT HAS BEEN CONTROLLED BY -- FOR YEARS -- BY THE GANGS AND THE CARTELS.

YOU SEE, EVERY FEW WEEKS YOU SEE BODIES HANGING FROM BRIDGES AND SO FORTH.

I'M SURE THE MEXICANS WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THEM.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HURT ANYBODY POLITICALLY BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANYBODY DOESN'T WANT TO SEE THE DRUGS COMING IN FROM MEXICO AND SO FORTH SMASHED, STOPPED.

>> ATTACKING, YOU KNOW, OUR NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH, YOU KNOW, WITH MILITARY INTERVENTION, DIRECT MILITARY INTERVENTION.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE FODDER IN THE GENERAL.

SHERROD BROWN WOULD USE THAT.

SHOULD FRANK LaROSE MAKE IT?

>> HE WOULD, BUT IT ILLUSTRATES THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEM BY TAKING AWAY THE NEEDS.

LEGALIZE ALL DRUGS, AND THIS PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY BECAUSE WE'LL CONTROL THE MARKETS, THE QUALITIES, THE DEBT, AND EVERYTHING.

BUT THE OTHER PART ABOUT THIS, IN MY PREP, WHAT I FOUND OUT IS MOST OF THE CANDIDATES ARE CLOSE TO SHERROD, WITHIN ONE OR TWO POINTS.

BUT SHERROD HAS A BASE OF 48% WHICH IS HIS BASE.

IT'S ONLY GOING TO GROW.

I FIND IT VERY INTERESTING.

THE OTHER THING I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT IS HOW COLUMBUS, OHIO, AND THE REST OF THE STATE SEE THE CANDIDATES.

I MEAN, AMONG THEMSELVES, THE POLLS, THEY'RE ALL VERY CLOSE.

>> YEAH.

HARD TO READ, JULIE, BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN A WHOLE LOT OF PUBLIC POLLING.

THERE'S BEEN A FEW POLLS THAT SHOW VARYING THINGS.

I THINK INTERNAL POLLING THAT WE'RE NOT PRIVY TO.

BUT THAT BERNIE MORENO SEEMED TO BE GETTING THE MOST ATTENTION IN THIS DEBATE WHICH INDICATES BECAUSE OF THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT HE'S THE GUY TO BEAT.

>> RIGHT.

WELL, THOSE OF US IN THE PRESS, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, AS HE GOT THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT AND SUPPORT BEGAN TO COALESCE AROUND HIM, WE BEGAN LOOKING AT HIM MORE CLOSELY.

I KNOW I WROTE A STORY ABOUT SOME DISCRIMINATION LAWSUITS AGAINST HIS BUSINESSES.

I KNOW WHO THAT "DISPATCH" HAD A GREAT STORY ON WAGE THEFT LAWSUITS THAT HE WEATHERED WHEN HE WAS A BUSINESSMAN IN MASSACHUSETTS.

SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT WILL CONTINUE.

AND THEREFORE THE QUESTIONS ON MONDAY NIGHT HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THINGS THAT HAD COME OUT ABOUT HIM.

>> FRANK LaROSE, STILL HE'S WON STATEWIDE TWICE.

HE DIDN'T GET THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT, BUT THAT IN MY MIND MAKES IT A WASH. A RELATIVELY UNKNOWN CANDIDATE GETS THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT, FRANK LaROSE IS A PROVEN WINNER STATEWIDE TWICE.

>> WELL, THAT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO HELP.

THERE'S NO KNOW THAT.

AND HE IS NOW GETTING SOME MONEY.

HE CAN'T MATCH MORENO AND THE OTHER GENTLEMAN.

BUT I -- COUPLE BILLION, SOMEONE GAVE HIM MONEY FROM ILLINOIS.

HE'S BEGINNING TO BUILD THERE.

AND HE DOES HAVE THAT NAME, AND WE ALL KNOW NAMES ARE IMPORTANT.

I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT HIM OR ANY THE REMAINING TWO.

I THINK IT WILL BE A CLOSE RACE.

IT'S NOT OVER.

BUT TRUMP HAS DONE SO WELL IN OHIO, YOU KNOW, BOTH TIMES HE'S RUN.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SO IN FAVOR OF TRUMP THAT THEY WILL VOTE FOR ANYBODY ENDORSES -- >> ONE OF THE THINGS THIS -- WHY AREN'T PEOPLE ASKING FOR HIM TO STEP ASIDE WHILE HE'S RUNNING FOR OFFICE?

LET HIS DUTIES GO -- >> THE SECRETARY OF STATE YOU MEAN?

>> YES.

>> IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.

KEN BLACKWELL RAN FOR GOVERNOR, I THINK HE WAS SECRETARY OF STATE.

SHERROD BROWN -- >> RUNNING FOR -- >> SHERROD BROWN RAN FOR HIGHER OFFICE WHEN HE WAS SECRETARY OF STATE, YEAH.

>> REMEMBER WE HAD GOVERNOR KENT IN ALABAMA.

HE WAS THE SECRETARY OF STATE WHEN HE RAN FOR OFFICE.

>> ONE DISTINCTION IS THAT LAST NOT ENDORSE IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE BECAUSE HE WANTED TO REMAIN NEUTRAL AS THE STATE ELECTION CHIEF, AND THIS TIME AROUND HE ENDORSED TRUMP PRETTY QUICKLY.

>> ALL COMES DOWN TO NOW WHETHER TRUMP SUPPORTERS COME OUT IF OHIO'S PRIMARY MEANS NOTHING.

THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, AS WELL.

OUR NEXT TOPIC, AS IT TURNS OUT, AT LEAST FOR THIS WEEK, OHIO DOES NOT NEED GOVERNOR DeWINE TO MAKE LAWS.

THE STATE SAID IT FINALIZED TWO VETO OVERRIDES WEDNESDAY.

ONE WAS TO OVERRIDE THE GOVERNOR'S VETO OF A BILL THAT WOULD PROHIBIT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FROM BANNING THE SALES OF FLAVORED TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

THE OTHER WAS THE OVERRIDE OF THE GOVERNOR'S VETO OF A BAN ON SOME GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE FOR MINORS AND TO KEEP TRANS FEMALES FROM COMPETING ON GIRLS OR WOMEN'S SPORTS TEAMS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE.

SAM GRESHAM, MIKE DeWINE WON RE-ELECTION WITH 62%.

ARGUABLY HE'S THE MOST POPULAR POLITICIAN IN OHIO.

>> RIGHT.

>> HE STILL CANNOT GET THE LEGISLATURE TO EVEN COMPROMISE ON WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.

>> I THINK THIS IS A GREAT ILLUSTRATION OF THE DIFFICULTY REPUBLICANS HAVE IN GOVERNING AND COORDINATING AND WORKING OUT THE ISSUES.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE A PUBLIC CONFLICT.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT IN THE BACK ROOM, AND IT WASN'T.

BUT AMONG ALL THESE THINGS THAT BOTHERS ME -- WHAT HAPPENED TO HOME RULE?

THE CITIES AND COUNTIES HAVE RIGHTS TO CREATE RULES.

AND THEN THEY'RE ON THIS THING IS -- LOOK WHAT THEY ARE LEGISLATING.

WHERE THERE'S 0.51% OF THE POPULATION DECIDES ON THIS GENDER STATUS AND TAKING AWAY THE AUTHORITY FROM A CITY TO -- TO BAN A DESTRUCTIVE SUBSTANCE.

LOOK WHAT THEY'RE SPENDING TIME ON.

>> JULIE, DO WE KNOW IF GOVERNOR DeWINE ACTIVELY TRIED TO GET SOME -- BOTH OF THESE BILLS PASSED WITH VETO-PROOF MAJORITIES.

SO SOME SENATORS AND REPS WOULD HAVE HAD TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE D. MIKE DeWINE TRY TO CONVINCE THEM TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE, DO WE KNOW?

>> I THINK HE TOLD ME HE WORKED WITH THEM OVER THE PREVIOUS YEAR.

BUT TO SPONSOR HIMSELF TO COME OUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE WISH THAT HE HAD BEEN AT THE TABLE ALL ALONG SO WE COULD TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND SORT OF HINTED THAT WHEN DeWINE SAID, OH, YOU KNOW, HE WENT AROUND THE STATE AND SPOKE TO FOLKS WHO HAVE HAD THIS TREATMENT.

FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN HELPED AND DAMAGED BY THIS TREATMENT.

CHILDREN'S HOSPITALS, ET CETERA, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, GOOD THAT HE DID THAT FOR FOUR DAYS.

I DID THAT FOR TWO YEARS, YOU KNOW.

SO OBVIOUSLY HE WASN'T IN THE BACK ROOMS AS SAM SAYS TRYING TO GET THAT DONE AHEAD OF TIME.

>> IS A VETO OVERRIDE THE BEST WAY TO GOVERN A STATE DO YOU THINK?

MIKE?

>> WELL, I SUPPOSE IT SOMETIMES IS.

I DON'T THINK EITHER ONE OF THESE ARE PROPER.

BUT I THINK THERE IS FINALLY ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE DECIDED IN THE COURTS.

>> YES.

TRANSGENDER CARE ONE.

>> YEAH, AND APPARENTLY THERE WAS A SIMILAR STATUTE IN ARKANSAS THAT I THINK A FEDERAL JUDGE STRUCK DOWN.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN HERE.

BUT REGARDLESS, I THINK YOU'LL SEE COURT CHALLENGES ON BOTH OF THESE MATTERS.

>> NOW ON THE HOME RULE, IT'S SELECTIVE HOME RULE IN OHIO.

YOU BAN PLASTIC BAGS, BUT YOU CAN'T BAN FRACKING.

SO NOW YOU CAN BAN BANS ON FLAVORED TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT COLUMBUS, LIKE PARTS OF COLUMBUS WHERE THE TOWNSHIPS SORT OF WEAVE THEIR WAY IN AND OUT, YOU CAN BUY A STRAWBERRY VAPE ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET OR GO TO CLINTON TOWNSHIP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET AND -- >> DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE -- >> YOU CAN BUY IT THERE.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A STATEWIDE OR NO STATEWIDE BAN ON FLAVORED TOBACCO PRODUCTS?

THAT WAY EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY ARE, INSTANTLY.

>> I THINK IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO SAY, YEAH, TO HAVE A BAN ON THEM.

JUST LIKE -- >> STATEWIDE BAN IS BETTER THAN A LOCAL BAN OR YOU STILL WANT THE LOCAL BANS?

>> NO.

LET ME -- I THINK A LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THAT.

I DON'T THINK THE STATES SHOULD INTERFERE.

YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE CENTRAL AND IF I REMEMBER CENTRAL PLANNING AND CENTRAL GOVERNING, THAT WAS CALLED COMMUNISM.

WASN'T THAT CALLED COMMUNISM?

>> ORGANIZED -- ANY CHANCE THERE COULD BE A STATEWIDE EFFORT TO BAN FLAVORED TOBACCO PRODUCTS LIKE WE BANNED INDOOR SMOKING?

THAT TOOK A LONG TIME.

>> YEAH.

>> SURE.

I MEAN, THERE'S ALWAYS THE CHANCE NOW THAT FOLKS WILL GO TO THE BALLOT IN THIS STATE BECAUSE A LOT OF -- AS WE SAW IN ALL OF 2023 -- THE MAJORITY OF OHIOANS ARE AGAINST SOME MAJOR POLICIES THAT ARE BEING PASSED AT THE STATE HOUSE AND WHERE LAWMAKERS STAND NOW TO GERRYMANDERING LARGELY.

SO IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

WE DID SEE AN INTERESTING EVENT THIS WEEK WHERE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TURNED BACK A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT PETITION LANGUAGE, AND HE MENTIONED THE CASE THAT HAS NOW GIVEN HIM MORE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.

SO COULD BE HARDER AND HARDER TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

>> YEAH.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

THE DREAM OF SOME REPUBLICANS TO ELIMINATE OHIO'S INCOME TAX IS BACK.

A TRIO OF LAWMAKERS HAS PROPOSED ELIMINATING OHIO'S INCOME TAX OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

THEY WOULD ALSO DO AWAY WITH THE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES TAX OR CAT TAX AS IT IS KNOWN, THAT'S ON BUSINESSES.

THE MOVE WOULD COST THE STATE SOME $13 BILLION IN REVENUE.

SUPPORTERS SAY THE TAX CUTS WOULD GENERATE ECONOMIC GROWTH, THEY WOULD PROMPT PEOPLE TO MOVE TO OHIO, AND THAT WOULD MAKE UP FOR THE LOST MONEY.

GOVERNOR DeWINE SAYS HE, TOO, WOULD LIKE TO ELIMINATE TAXES, BUT HE SAYS YOU CAN'T DO THAT AND STILL PAY FOR SCHOOLS, MENTAL HEALTH CARE AND OTHER CAUSES.

THIS HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS S. THERE MOVEMENT -- AS WE SAW THE LEGISLATURE CAN GO AROUND THE GOVERNOR.

IS THERE ANY STRENGTH IN THIS EFFORT?

>> THIS SESSION I DOUBT IT.

IT'S COMING AT AN ODD TIME.

WE ALREADY HAVE OUR BUDGET IN PLACE.

SO NORMALLY THESE SORT OF BIG FINANCIAL POLICIES ARE A PART OF THAT DISCUSSION.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE TRYING TO SIGNAL TO THE GOVERNOR THAT THEY MIGHT VOTE YES ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF HE PUTS IT IN HIS BUDGET.

BUT -- I JUST THINK IT'S A HARD ONE TO SWALLOW AND CERTAINLY TO GET A VETO-PROOF MAJORITY.

>> NINE STATES, MIKE, DO NOT HAVE STATE INCOME TAX STAXES, FLORIDA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, WASHINGTON, TEXAS.

SHOULD OHIO JOIN THEM?

>> I'D LIKE TO SEE OHIO JOIN THEM IF ECONOMICALLY IT CAN BE DONE, WHICH I DOUBT THAT IT CAN.

BUT EVEN IF THEY DO, I DON'T THINK OHIO -- BUT SOME CORPORATIONS OR PEOPLE IT WOULD WORK.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S -- CAN'T SAY IT'S LIKE FLORIDA BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO CLEARLY HAVE LEFT HIGH TAX STATES SUCH AS NEW YORK, CONNECTICUT, SO FORTH, THEY'RE GOING DOWN TO FLORIDA FOR OTHER REASONS, TOO.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY WOULD COME HERE.

MAYBE SOME -- A GROUP OF PEOPLE MIGHT.

THIS DOESN'T GET TO CORPORATE TAXES I DON'T THINK.

SO MAYBE IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

BUT IT'S A GREAT THING -- HOW CAN YOU BE AS A POLITICIAN, AND REMEMBER THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR FOR PEOPLE, HOW CAN ANYBODY COMPLAIN IF YOU SAY YOU'D LIKE TO ELIMINATE TAXES?

PRETTY SAFE THING EVEN IF IT IS A PROBABLE OR DOABLE.

>> EVEN IF IT'S A PIPE DREAM.

SAM, I MEAN, SOME OF THESE STATES -- ALASKA'S DIFFERENT.

THEY DON'T HAVE AN INCOME TAX, BUT THEY'VE GOT A TON OF OIL MONEY.

YOU KNOW, FLORIDA IS THE EXAMPLE A LOT OF NEXT USE BECAUSE PEOPLE DO MOVE THERE.

BUT THE STUDIES SHOW THAT THE TAX BURDEN JUST SHIFTS, IT GOES TO PROPERTY TAXES, IT GOES TO SALES TAXES.

IN FLORIDA YOU GOT TO BUY HIGH INSURANCE RATES BECAUSE OF THE HURRICANES.

BUT LET IT -- MIGHT IT PROVIDE AN ECONOMIC BENEFIT TO OHIO?

>> LET'S TACKLE THE FIRST PART.

THE FIRST PART IS THEY BELIEVE THE SUPPOSITION IS THAT IT FIRES UP THE ECONOMY.

SINCE 2005 THAT'S NOT TRUE.

THE THINGS THAT HAVE FIRED UP THE ECONOMY HAVE BEEN EXTERNAL LEGISLATION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THE INTEL PROJECT AND ALL OF THAT IS NOT STATE GENERATED.

SECOND OF ALL, TAX MONEY IS AN INVESTMENT IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

AND IT SAYS WHAT YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR COMMUNITY AND THE PROBLEM SOLVING.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS MORE MONEY.

SCHOOLS NEED MORE MONEY.

WHY ARE WE DEALING WITH THIS IDEA THAT SOMEHOW TRICKLE DOWN WORKS?

IT'S STUPID.

IT'S NOT THE WAY WE SHOULD BE GOVERNING.

GOVERNING SHOULD BE IMPROVING OUR COMMUNITY.

WE'RE NOT IMPROVING OUR COMMUNITY.

AND FINALLY, AGAIN, REPUBLICANS HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME WORKING WITH EACH OTHER IN GOVERNING.

THESE THINGS SHOULD BE WORKED OUT.

THE GOVERNOR'S NOT SURE HE WON'T VETO THIS IF THEY TRY.

SO THE GOVERNING PROBLEM IS A CENTRAL ISSUE.

>> DO THE SPONSORS OF THE BILL, JULIE, BESIDES HOPING FOR ECONOMIC RECOVERY TO HELP PAY FOR THIS MORE JOBS, THEN MORE TAXES, DO THEY HAVE OTHER PLANS TO RAISE THE SALES TAX, TO CUT PROGRAMS?

>> I THINK THEY WOULD LIKE TO REPLACE SOME OF THIS AS A SALES TAX INCREASE.

TO YOUR QUESTION TO SAM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN THAT THAT SHIFTS OFF ON A HEAVIER BURDEN ON LOW-INCOME FOLKS BECAUSE WHAT THEY BUY IS A BIGGER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR TOTAL BUDGET.

AND SO THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PUSHBACK FROM SOME OF THE GROUPS THAT ARE WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE POOR AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR FOR SHIFTING TO SALES TAXES.

>> IF YOU GO LOOK AT THE TAXES AND REVENUES THAT WE COME IN, THE LARGEST GROUP, THE SALES TAX RIGHT NOW, THAN ANY OTHER GROUP.

ALL YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS EXPAND THE BURDEN ON POOR PEOPLE AND MIDDLE-CLASS PEOPLE IF YOU HAVE TO DO THAT.

>> WELL, I DO KNOW, THOUGH, THAT 38% OF THE PEOPLE, WHAT I READ, DON'T PAY INCOME TAX ANYWAY.

38% OF OUR POPULATION OF PEOPLE THAT WORK -- WHATEVER INCOME, THEY DON'T PAY ANYTHING.

SO -- SOME PEOPLE MAY SAY, WELL, I'M NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT AN INCREASE IN THE SALES TAX BECAUSE THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE DOESN'T PAY A DIME.

>> LIKE NEVADA, ITS SALES TAX IS I THINK 8%.

I MEAN, GRANTED THEY GET A LOT OF FOLKS PAYING THAT ARE TOURISTS, THAT HELPS THEIR STATE BUDGET.

STILL, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUY A PIECE OF FURNITURE, A CAR, 8%, THAT TACKS A LOT ONTO THE BILL.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS -- I WAS RECENTLY IN CHICAGO, 10%.

SO YOU NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE SIGNIFICANTLY, AUTOMATICALLY, TEN CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR FOR THE COST OF THAT THING.

BUT I'M -- IN MY PART SAYING TAXES ARE INVESTMENTS, THEY'RE NOT PENALTIES.

THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO HURT PEOPLE.

THEY'RE THERE TO IMPROVE OUR COMMUNITY AND TO DO THINGS THAT MAKE OUR ECONOMY WORK, EDUCATING KIDS.

I THINK PEOPLE SHOULDN'T LOOK AT IT AS NEGATIVE THINGS.

>> AND I THINK AS MIKE POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FLORIDA, THEY'RE GOING FOR OTHER REASONS.

YOU MENTIONED NEVADA.

OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE GO TO NEVADA FOR OTHER REASONS THAN -- I LIVED IN FLORIDA FOR A WHILE, AND YOU KNOW, THEY DO TRY MAKE UP FOR THAT INCOME TAX BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTS.

SO THEY GIVE YOU A BENEFIT IF YOU BUY A HOUSE OR THEY CHARGE YOU MORE WHEN YOU REGISTER A CAR OR THAT KIND OF THING.

THEY CHARGE YOU MORE TO GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE BECAUSE RESIDENTS ARE NOT WHO THEY'RE AIMING THAT FOR.

THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT UP IN OTHER WAYS.

>> THE MONEY'S GOT TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE.

>> I LIVED IN FLORIDA FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

THE POVERTY IN FLORIDA IS UNBELIEVABLE.

IF YOU GET OFF THE TOURIST THINGS AND GO TO SEE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIVING, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> LAST TOPIC, 13 YEARS AGO THEN-GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH CALLED PASSENGER RAIL SERVICE A MONEY PIT AND REFUSED TO SPEND $17 MILLION A YEAR IN STATE MONEY TO CONNECT CLEVELAND, COLUMBUS, AND CINCINNATI BY AMTRAK TRAIN.

BY THE WAY, $17 MILLION IS ABOUT HALF THE COST OF BUILDING ONE STATE HIGHWAY INTERSECTION.

ANYWAY, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

BUT THERE'S A NEW PLAN THAT THE CURRENT STATE OFFICIALS ARE MORE OPEN TO.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING TO BRING AMTRAK TRAINS BACK TO COLUMBUS.

ONE POSSIBLE ROUTES WOULD CONNECT COLUMBUS TO CHICAGO, ANOTHER WOULD CONNECT THE CITY TO CLEVELAND AND CINCINNATI.

A NEW STUDY BY RAIL SUPPORTERS SAYS RAIL SERVICE WOULD GENERATE UP TO $16 MILLION A YEAR ECONOMIC BENEFIT ONCE IT IS ESTABLISHED.

MIKE MILLER, IS THIS THE TIME -- IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE WE HAD AMTRAK SERVICE IN COLUMBUS.

IS THIS THE PLAN THAT MIGHT BRING IT BACK, DO YOU THINK?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

WHEN I WAS A KID WE TOOK THE TRAIN, I WAS 11, 12 YEARS OLD, PICK UP THE UNION STATION AND GO TO THE INDIANS GAMES -- NOW THE GUARDIANS.

I LOVE TRAINS.

WHEN I GET TO EUROPE OCCASIONALLY, I LIKE TO TAKE THE TRAINS THERE.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I WOULD GIVE MY RIGHT ARM TO HAVE TRAIN SERVICE HERE.

TALKED ABOUT KASICH AND TURNING DOWN THAT MONEY, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

ONE THING I SAW ON THAT STUDY, HAD THAT GONE THROUGH, YOU COULD STILL DRIVE FROM COLUMBUS TO CLEVELAND QUICKER THAN IF YOU TOOK A TRAIN, AND YOU COULD DRIVE FROM COLUMBUS TO CLEVELAND WITH LESS EXPENSE THAN TO TAKE A TRAIN.

AND UNTIL THEY GET THAT WORKED OUT SOMEHOW, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING WORK.

>> SO DOES IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO HAVE THE TRAINS CONNECT COLUMBUS TO CHICAGO?

BECAUSE THE THREE C BRANDING I ALWAYS THOUGHT WAS WEIRD BECAUSE, YES, YOU GET FROM CLEVELAND TO COLUMBUS TO CINCINNATI, BUT IT'S A SYSTEM WHERE YOU CAN GET TO CHICAGO, GIG TO NEW ORLEANS ON A TRAIN.

GETTING TO CHICAGO SEEMS MORE AX TRACTIVE.

>> I -- ATTRACTIVE.

>> I GUESS IT DEPENDS HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

MY HUSBAND AND I GO TO CLEVELAND AND CINCINNATI A LOT.

WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR SPORTS EVENTS.

WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR CONCERTS.

IT IS MAYBE A LITTLE SLOWER.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SIT IN THE CLUB CAR.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE.

YOU CAN READ A BOOK IF YOU'RE COMMUTING FOR YOUR JOB OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ALWAYS THOSE PROS ABOUT PUBLIC TRANSIT AND DOWNSIDE LIKE WHERE YOU NEED TO GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING ONCE YOU GET THERE AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO PARK AND ALL THAT STUFF.

I THINK THAT IT -- IT'S A PRO AND CON THING.

AND I DO THINK THE TIME IS A LITTLE BIT BETTER NOW PERHAPS.

BUT MAYBE.

WE'LL SEE.

>> LET ME BOAST.

I THINK WE'RE IN THE DARK AGES IN OHIO, AND WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THE DARK AGES.

THE WAY OUR ECONOMY IS GOING TO GROW IN THE FUTURE, BEING ABLE TO REDUCE THE TIME IT TAKES FOR YOU TO GET ONE PLACE OR ANOTHER IS AN ECONOMIC ADVANTAGE.

I THINK IT'S A TRAVESTY WHEN YOU LOOK AT TRAINS, AND COLUMBUS DOES NOT HAVE LIGHT RAIL.

I GO TO CINCINNATI, I GO TO SEATTLE, I CAN SEE A NUMBER OF OTHER PLACES I'VE BEEN IN, SIMILAR SIZE OR SMALLER THAN COLUMBUS.

AND WE'RE NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT LIGHT RAIL.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

SO WE NEED GET OUT OF THE FUTILE PERIOD AND GET OUT OF THE DARK AGES AND GROW.

>> I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO 19th CENTURY TECHNOLOGY, THAT'S WHY THEY DISMISSED RAIL.

>> IT'S NOT -- >> THERE SEEMS TO BE IN THIS TOWN, THERE SEEMS TO BE AMONG SOME PEOPLE, SOME PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TRAINS, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT TRAINS.

CENTER KIND OF PHILOSOPHICAL, MAYBE THEY MISS THE TRAIN ONE DAY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

THEY DO NOT WANT TRAINS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, MIKE?

>> MIKE, I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA.

I THINK TRAINS ARE A GREAT, GREAT WAY TO TRAVEL.

IT'S DIFFERENT -- I THINK IT'S SOMEWHAT EXCITING.

AS JULIE SAID, IT'S COMFORTABLE.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY WOULD BE OPPOSED TO IT -- MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT, MAYBE THEY JUST MISS TRAINS.

>> THE HIGH-SPEED RAIL ON THE EAST COAST, WHICH DOES OKAY, BUT THE ONE IN FLORIDA THEY JUST PUT IN BETWEEN MIAMI AND ORLANDO, THEY HAD TO DROP HOW MANY RIDERS THEY THOUGHT WERE GOING TO USE IT.

THAT COMPANY WANTS TO BUILD ONE THIS CALIFORNIA.

THE ONE IN CALIFORNIA IS WAY OVER BUDGET AND STILL SEVEN YEARS AWAY.

>> I THINK THAT A LOT OF THIS IS THAT THERE IS SORT OF A NATIONAL VISION, THERE'S NOT SORT OF A -- ANY KIND OF A BUY-IN ADVERTISING PLAN TO PROMOTE IT AMONG THE POPULOUS.

SO YOU KNOW, IT ALL BECOMES SORT OF LIKE ONE GOVERNOR SAYS YES TO THE MONEY AND ONE SAYS NO, AND BIDEN TRIES AN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL TO GET SOME MONEY TO STATES.

BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT IF ONLY HALF OF THEM TAKE THE MONEY, THEN IT'S NOT REALLY A SYSTEM.

>> YEAH.

AND SOME TRAINS WILL BE EMPTY.

YOU KNOW, JUST THE WAY IT IS.

>> THAT'S THE SAD THING.

WE USED TO BE VISIONARY.

WE USED TO BE PIONEERS.

WE'RE NO LONGER PIONEERS.

AND OUR VISION IS BLIND.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF-THE-RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

MIKE MILLER, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> I LOVE POLITICS, BUT WE HAVE A NEW ATHLETIC DIRECTOR AT THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.

I'M AT LEAST ONE POINT IN MY LIFE FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, I WILL SAY ROLL TIDE, AS WE'LL KEEP GETTING THESE OUTSTANDING PLAYERS ARE GETTING INTO THE SYSTEM.

LEAVING ALABAMA AND COMING TO OHIO STATE.

IT CAN ONLY BE GOOD FOR THE FOOTBALL TEAM.

>> LOT OF TRANSFER -- CALL ROLL BUCKS WE'LL CALL IT THERE.

SAM?

>> PEOPLE NOT POLITICIANS.

THE CAMPAIGN IS COMING ALONG FOR THE COMMISSION TO DRAW THE LINES.

A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT -- CENTERS ON REDIRECTING.

OUR CAMPAIGN IS COMING ALONG.

WE HAVE A 70 TO 80 VALIDITY IN THE PETITION THAT'S WE ARE COMING.

WE'VE GOTTEN THROUGH THE LANGUAGE.

SO WE'RE COMING FOR NOVEMBER.

WE'LL BE THERE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

JULIE?

>> AND BACK TO OUR VERY FIRST TOPIC, I UNDERSTAND THAT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE LEGISLATORS ARE INDICATING IF WE PASS A BILL WITH A VETO-PROOF MAJORITY, DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO VETO IT, GOVERNOR DeWINE, BECAUSE WE'LL OVERRIDE EVERY TIME.

SO IT COULD BE ANOTHER VERY INTERESTING YEAR.

>> YEAH.

GOT THREE YEARS LEFT IN HIS TERM, TOO.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

TWO OFF-THE-RECORD COMMENTS.

TOM CHARLES, THE FORMER STATE INSPECTOR GENERAL, DIED THIS WEEK AT THE AGE OF 81.

HE WAS A GUY WHO FOLLOWED THE FACTS AND NOT PARTY AFFILIATION.

HE GAVE MANY GOVERNOR, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN, A FEW HEADACHES.

SO PEACE TO TOM CHARLES' FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

AND ALSO TODAY, A BIG DAY, SAM GRESHAM'S BIRTHDAY TODAY.

SAM GRESHAM, YOU ALL ARE, BUT SAM IS ONE OF OUR ORIGINAL PANELISTS HERE ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

WE ARE VERY GLAD YOU ARE HERE WITH US TODAY.

WE THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO FOR THIS SHOW AND THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, YOU CAN ALSO WATCH US ANY TIME ON OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG/COTR, ON YOUTUBE AND THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.