FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE  MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO In FOCUS, COVID-19 IS SURGING ONCE AGAIN,  FORCING NEW ADJUSTMENTS WITH A NEW REASON FOR CAUTIOUS  OPTIMISM.

IF WE CAN EVOLVE TO A  MILDER FORM OF THE VIRUS, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A  REALLY GOOD THING.

Gene: AND THE EARLY  SIGNS OF A BIPARTISAN PLAN TO ADDRESS CRIME.

BUT WILL LAWMAKERS BE ON THE SAME PAGE BY THE TIME THE  SESSION STARTS?

NEW MEXICO In FOCUS STARTS  NOW.

Gene:   THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK, AND HAPPY NEW  YEAR.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

WE'RE ONLY A WEEK INTO 2022 AND THERE ARE ALREADY SOME  KEY STORIES SHAPING UP TO BE MAJOR HEADLINES IN THE  COMING MONTHS.

STATE LEGISLATORS ARE  GETTING READY FOR A NEW SESSION, AND CURBING CRIME  IS AT THE TOP OF THE AGENDA.

LAST YEAR, ALBUQUERQUE  SHATTERED ITS RECORD FOR HOMICIDES WITH 117 KILLINGS  IN 2021.

THAT'S A 46% INCREASE FROM  THE PREVIOUS RECORD SET IN 2019.

OUR LINE OPINION PANEL DIVES INTO WHAT LAWMAKERS COULD  PROPOSE TO HELP MAKE 2022 A SAFER YEAR FOR EVERYONE.

THAT'S IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES.

CITIZEN LAWMAKERS AT THE  STATE CAPITOL COULD SOON BE REQUIRED TO SHARE MORE ABOUT  THEIR PERSONAL INCOME AND BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP.

THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION SAYS IT WANTS TO MAKE SURE  DECISION-MAKING IN THE ROUNDHOUSE IS TRANSPARENT,  BUT DOES THIS CHANGE THE CONVERSATION AROUND A  VOLUNTEER LEGISLATURE?

THE PANEL WEIGHS IN ON THAT  AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR.

WE'RE ALSO WATCHING A FEW  OTHER HEADLINES EARLY THIS NEW YEAR.

MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS ACROSS NEW MEXICO ARE SEEING A PAY  RAISE UP TO $11.50 PER HOUR.

IT'S THE LATEST INCREASE IN  A 2019 PLAN FROM GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN-GRISHAM.

THE ROLLING INCREASES END NEXT YEAR AT $12 AN HOUR FOR  2023.

NEW MEXICO'S FIRST  RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA SALES ARE SET TO START IN JUST A  FEW MONTHS.

THE STATE ISSUED ITS FINAL  LICENSING RULES EARLIER THIS WEEK GIVING MANUFACTURERS  AND RETAILERS FINAL INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE SALES  OFFICIALLY BECOME LEGAL ON APRIL 1st.

THE STATE'S ENERGY FUTURE COULD SOON CHANGE, BY THE  WAY.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE  LUJAN-GRISHAM IS EXPECTED TO INTRODUCE A BILL IN THE  UPCOMING SESSION THAT WOULD GIVE INCENTIVES TO HYDROGEN  ENERGY DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S A COMPLEX ISSUE THAT'S  ALREADY SPARKED CONCERN FROM ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS WHO SAY  THE BLUE HYDROGEN PLAN WILL ONLY DEEPEN OUR RELIANCE ON  NATURAL GAS.

AND AS DISCUSSIONS ON THE  ENVIRONMENT AND GREEN ENERGY MOVE FORWARD, CLIMATE CHANGE  REMAINS A THREAT TO OUR WESTERN LANDSCAPE.

WE'RE SEEING MORE AND MORE FOREST FIRES IN STRANGER AND  STRANGER PLACES, MOST RECENTLY ACROSS OUR NORTHERN  BORDER IN BOULDER COUNTY, COLORADO.

LATER IN THE SHOW, ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA  PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH A BIOCLIMATOLOGIST, PARKER  WILLIAMS, TO TALK ABOUT WHY THESE FIRES SEEM TO BE  GROWING EACH YEAR AND WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Gene: WE'LL BE WATCHING ALL OF THOSE NEW DEVELOPING  STORIES THROUGHOUT THE NEW YEAR, BUT UNFORTUNATELY,  ANOTHER STORY WE'RE ALL TOO FAMILIAR WITH IS STEALING  THE SPOTLIGHT AGAIN.

COVID-19 CASES ARE SURGING  AROUND THE U.S. AS WELL AS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

ACCORDING TO THE LATEST BRIEFING FROM THE STATE  HEALTH DEPARTMENT, THERE IS SOME GOOD NEWS.

HOSPITALIZATIONS FROM THE VIRUS HAVE FALLEN SINCE THE  PEAK AT MORE THAN 700 IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST MONTH.

SO LET'S BRING IN OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WELCOME TO UNM LAW PROFESSOR SERGE MARTINEZ.

ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE SERGE.

GIRL SCOUTS OF NEW MEXICO  CEO REBECCA LATHAM, ONE OF OUR NEWER PANELISTS, IS WITH  US.

ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE REBECCA.

AND EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR AT THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN  INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ JOINS US, AS WELL.

THANK YOU ALL.

NOW, HEALTH EXPERTS SAY THE  NEW VARIANT DRIVING THESE CASES IS MILDER THAN ANY  STRAIN OF THE VIRUS TO THIS POINT, BUT GUYS, HOW DO WE  BALANCE THAT POSITIVE WITH THE REALITY SOME HEALTH CARE  WORKERS, PARTICULARLY THOSE IN THE ICU, ARE STILL FACING  EACH DAY?

AND REBECCA, LET ME THROW  THAT TO YOU.

Rebecca: YOU KNOW,  HONESTLY, GENE, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR IT.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HAS AN ANSWER FOR IT, BECAUSE THEN  WE'D BE DOING IT.

IT REALLY IS SUCH A TRAGIC  SITUATION BECAUSE -- YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY FOR ME, I'M  ALL THE VACCINE, RIGHT.

LIKE I'VE GOT ALL THE  VACCINES, AND MY CHILDREN ARE VACCINATED, AND IT'S  SOMETHING THAT WE BELIEVE IN STRONGLY.

AND YET I KNOW VERY EDUCATED PEOPLE WHO OPT TO GET ALL  THE VACCINES, ALL THE OTHER ONES, AND NOT THIS ONE, AND  WE HAVE TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT.

IT'S FEAR THAT'S DRIVING THAT.

BUT THAT FEAR PUTS US IN SUCH A BAD POSITION WITH OUR  VERY LIMITED RESOURCES.

NEW MEXICO WAS IN A BAD  POSITION WITH HEALTH CARE WORKERS BEFORE THE GLOBAL  PANDEMIC.

SO I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHERE  SUCCESS IS WITH THIS OR WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT,  BECAUSE I JUST FEEL LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN THE  LIGHT YET, TO BE VACCINATED, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HOPE WE  HAVE FOR THEM.

Gene: YOU KNOW, INEZ,  THE DATA RELEASED BY THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ON  WEDNESDAY SHOWS OMICRON SPREADS AT A RATE THREE  TIMES HIGHER THAN THE DELTA VARIANT, WHICH HAD BEEN THE  MOST TRANSMISSIBLE AS WE KNEW, BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS  UNLIKE DELTA, EARLY DATA SHOWS HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE  LIKELY TO FALL AS OMICRON SPREADS BECAUSE IT'S MORE  MILD.

AT WHAT POINT DO WE BEGIN TO  REFRAME WHAT IT MEANS TO CONTRACT THE VIRUS?

IS IT TOO EARLY TO SAY AT THIS POINT?

Inez: I THINK IT IS TOO EARLY TO SAY, BECAUSE I  THINK THERE'S AN UNDERSTANDING THAT COVID IS  GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE LIVE WITH, WHICH MEANS,  OF COURSE, THAT WE CAN'T HAVE PERMANENT LOCKDOWNS, WE  CAN'T BE CLOSING RESTAURANTS OR SCHOOLS AND THOSE KINDS  OF THINGS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME,  BECAUSE IT MUTATES AND CHANGES, THERE IS GREAT  INTEREST IN STOPPING THE SPREAD AS MUCH AS WE CAN,  BECAUSE DELTA DIDN'T SPREAD THAT QUICKLY, BUT IT WAS  FAIRLY DEADLY.

OMICRON SPREADS QUICKLY;  IT'S NOT THAT DEADLY.

WHAT I'M AFRAID OF IS A  VARIANT THAT SPREADS QUICKLY AND KILLS, AND I WOULD LIKE  TO SEE THAT NOT HAPPEN.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP  PERSUADING, NOT SHAMING, BUT PERSUADING PEOPLE TO GET  VACCINATED.

YOU KNOW, BEG THEM IF WE  HAVE TO.

MAYBE NURSES WHO WORK IN THE  ICU CAN MAKE MORE PLEAS, OR SOMETHING.

BECAUSE IF WE GET VACCINATED, WE'RE OKAY.

WE'VE SHOWN THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

80% OF THE HOSPITALIZATIONS OR SO ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE  UNVACCINATED, THE DEATHS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNVACCINATED.

WE'VE JUST GOT TO STICK TO THE FACTS AND PERSUADE OUR  NEIGHBORS.

EVEN IF THEY WON'T SEE THE  LIGHT, JUST KEEP IT UP.

Gene: YOU KNOW, SERGE,  SEVERAL EMPLOYERS AND ORGANIZATIONS NOW REQUIRING  BOOSTERS AS A CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT.

IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING.

I WANT TO MENTION SOMETHING  ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN EUROPE RIGHT AFTER THIS, AS  WELL.

BUT SHOULD THIS BE ADOPTED  ON A WIDER SCALE?

Serge: I SAY ABSOLUTELY.

MY EMPLOYER HAS REQUIRED IT.

I CERTAINLY DIDN'T HAVE A  PROBLEM WITH IT.

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS  INEZ WAS SAYING, IF CARROTS DON'T WORK, BRING IN THE  STICKS, I GUESS.

Gene: BUT IS IT THAT  EASY?

I MEAN, WE'VE GOT HOSPITALS  NOW FIRING HUGE AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE WHO REFUSE.

I MEAN, THESE ARE HEALTH CARE WORKERS, NOT  CONSTRUCTION PEOPLE.

THESE ARE HEALTH CARE  WORKERS WHO ARE NOW OUT OF A JOB BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO  GET EITHER VACCINATED OR BOOSTED.

THEY SHOULD KNOW MORE THAN ANYBODY OF THE EFFICACY OF  DOING THIS, SO HOW DO WE CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE THAT  THEY NEED TO DO THIS?

Serge: GENE, I'M  COMPLETELY UNSYMPATHETIC HERE.

I THINK IF IT'S A CONDITION OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT TO DO  THIS, AND WE AS A SOCIETY SAY THIS IS A PUBLIC GOOD  AND WE WANT TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN  THAT PUBLIC GOOD, THEN YOU CAN, FINE, MAKE A CHOICE,  BUT YOU CAN'T THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF  THAT CHOICE.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS  INEZ WAS SAYING, HOW DO YOU GET THROUGH TO PEOPLE?

AT SOME POINT, YOU JUST CAN'T, WHICH IS FINE, BUT  THEN WE NEED TO JUST SAY, THIS PERSON HAS MADE A  CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO, YOU KNOW, TO BE ON THE RECEIVING  END OF THE IMPACT AND FEEL THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THAT  CHOICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE  WHO ARE DOING THAT, THAT ARE KEEPING MY KIDS FROM BEING  ABLE TO DO SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'RE TRYING TO DO,  THAT ARE SENDING PEOPLE TO THE HOSPITAL THAT ARE  CAUSING IT SO FOLKS WHO HAVE OTHER CONDITIONS CAN'T GET  INTO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE THEY'RE FULL OF PEOPLE WITH  COVID, I HAVE -- I MEAN, I'M JUST COMPLETELY  UNSYMPATHETIC TO PEOPLE WHO PERPETUATE THAT.

Gene: I HEAR YOU.

YOU KNOW, REBECCA, IT'S  INTERESTING, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT DATA SHOWS ONLY  17% OF KIDS AGED 5 TO 11 HAVE GOTTEN BOTH OF THEIR  PRIMARY VACCINATIONS.

IS THAT THE INDIVIDUALS WE  SHOULD BE CONCENTRATING ON, IS KIDS AND THEIR PARENTS?

Rebecca: I THINK IT'S PARENTS IN GENERAL.

GOING BACK TO WHAT INEZ AND SERGE SAID, IT'S REALLY KIND  OF UNDERSTANDING THE ROOT REASON OF WHY PEOPLE ARE NOT  CHOOSING TO GET VACCINATED.

AND FOR ME, I DON'T THINK  IT'S THAT PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE, I THINK  IT'S THAT PEOPLE ARE -- AGAIN, THEIR DECISION IS  ROOTED IN FEAR.

LIKE, THIS WAS RUSHED, AND  IT DOESN'T MEAN -- YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY, AGAIN, WE HAVE  CHOSEN TO BE VACCINATED AND BOOSTED.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE,  IT'S THAT THEY'RE AFRAID THAT THIS SCIENCE WASN'T  THOROUGHLY VETTED.

IN NEUROSCIENCE, WE KNOW  THAT THE BRAIN WILL CONNECT DOTS THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY  THERE.

AND SO WE HAVE THIS  NARRATIVE BEING DRIVEN BY FEAR, AGAIN, THAT IS MAKING  PEOPLE THINK THAT IF THEY VACCINATE THEIR CHILDREN,  THAT SOMETHING HORRIBLE IS GOING TO HAPPEN DOWN THE  LINE, OR THAT THEY JUST DON'T KNOW.

SO HOW DO WE PERSUADE THEM?

WE'VE GOT TO GET MORE BACK  INTO LIKE THE ROOT CAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE, OR WHY  AREN'T THEY VACCINATING THEIR CHILDREN.

AS A PARENT OF KIDS IN ELEMENTARY AND MIDDLE  SCHOOL, WE'RE GETTING NOTIFICATIONS TWO TO THREE  TIMES A WEEK THAT THERE'S BEEN ANOTHER COVID POSITIVE  CASE.

IT'S COMING, IT'S COMING,  IT'S COMING.

AND AGAIN, THESE ARE STILL  PRIMARILY DELTA.

SO ONCE OMICRON HITS, WE  CAN'T GET RID OF IT.

SO I THINK OUR BEST BET IS  TO LIKE TACKLE THE PSYCHOLOGY BEHIND WHAT'S  DRIVING THESE DECISIONS TO NOT VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN  OR NOT VACCINATE YOURSELF, AND TRY AND TAKE A STAB AT  IT THAT WAY.

Gene: YOU KNOW, IT'S  INTERESTING, INEZ, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW ONE DOES  THIS, TO EITHER INCENTIVIZE FOLKS TO DO SOMETHING AND  TAKE A STEP FORWARD.

I CAN'T HELP BUT NOTE WHAT'S  BEEN GOING ON IN EUROPE.

WE'VE GOT A BIG TENNIS STAR  THAT WAS JUST BOOTED OUT OF AUSTRALIA BECAUSE HE'S  UNVACCINATED.

WE'VE GOT THE PRESIDENT OF  FRANCE SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO?

WE'RE GOING TO TURN THE SCREWS ON THE UNVACCINATED  AND MAKE IT SO DIFFICULT FOR THEM, THEY WILL HAVE NO  CHOICE BUT TO GET VACCINATED, BECAUSE THEY'RE  NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED INTO ANYTHING.

ITALY JUST LAID DOWN THE LAW THAT STARTING I THINK IN  FEBRUARY, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE REQUIRED TO GET  VACCINATED.

IS THAT THE BEST WAY TO GO,  IS JUST DROP THE HAMMER ON PEOPLE HERE AND JUST SAY,  YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE OUT IF YOU CANNOT SHOW A  VACCINATION CARD?

Inez: I DON'T KNOW IF  IT'S THE BEST WAY, BUT IT MIGHT BE A NECESSARY WAY.

YOU KNOW, I'M WITH SERGE IN THAT I DON'T HAVE A WHOLE  LOT OF SYMPATHY IN THE SENSE THAT IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE  THE SCIENCE OF VACCINATIONS, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME THAT  YOU THEN GO TO THE HOSPITAL TO BELIEVE THE SCIENCE OF  THOSE DOCTORS AND NURSES WORKING OVERTIME TO SAVE  YOUR LIFE.

Gene: THANK YOU.

Inez: NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE.

I THINK IN A FREE COUNTRY, YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW, TRACK  PEOPLE DOWN AND VACCINATE THEM LIKE YOU WOULD A HORSE  OR A COW, YOU KNOW, AGAINST THEIR WILL, BUT YOU CAN SAY,  WE HAVE TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND WE'RE GOING TO ISOLATE  YOU UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND.

I STILL PREFER ALMOST THE ONE-ON-ONE, JUST GO  DOOR-TO-DOOR AND TALK TO PEOPLE AND HEAR THEIR FEARS,  BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAY BE THE WAY TO GET THROUGH TO  THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T SO POLITICIZED, BUT MAYBE JUST  ARE AFRAID OR SCARED.

OR EVEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T  TRUST MEDICINE BECAUSE THEIR GROUP WAS EXPERIMENTED ON.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S DIFFERENT REASONS FOR NOT GETTING  VACCINATED, AND WE'VE GOT TO CONCENTRATE ON PROTECTING AS  MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE SO WE DON'T COLLAPSE OUR HEALTH  CARE SYSTEM.

Gene: SERGE, I'VE GOT TO  GO BACK TO SCHOOLS HERE FOR A LITTLE BIT, JUST TO FINISH  UP HERE, BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR VIEWERS.

HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO -- I HEARD REBECCA'S POINT LOUD  AND CLEAR HERE, BUT HOW ARE SCHOOLS SUPPOSED TO REACT TO  THE MIXED BAG OF DATA COMING FROM OMICRON?

ARE THE RISKS TOO GREAT TO LOOSEN PROTOCOLS AT THIS  POINT, OR ARE WE ON THE RIGHT TRACK?

WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF IT?

Serge: I MEAN, I HAVE  TWO KIDS WHO ARE IN APS, AND WE WATCH THIS UNFOLDING IN  REALTIME, AS WELL, LIKE REBECCA WAS SAYING.

I THINK WHAT WE DO KNOW IN TERMS OF THE RISKS TO KIDS  OF THE VIRUS IS STATISTICALLY PRETTY LOW.

THE RISK TO KIDS OF NOT BEING IN SCHOOL AND THE  NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT, WE KNOW THAT THOSE ARE  PRETTY HIGH.

SO I THINK ERRING ON THE SIDE OF DOING EVERYTHING WE  CAN TO KEEP SCHOOLS OPEN AND AVAILABLE SO KIDS CAN COME  AND BE EDUCATED AND HANG OUT WITH THEIR PEERS AND ALL THE  THINGS THAT GO WITH THAT -- YOU KNOW, HERE AT THE LAW  SCHOOL WE'VE SEEN TREMENDOUS MENTAL HEALTH AS WELL AS  PHYSICAL WELL-BEING CHALLENGES THROUGHOUT THE  PANDEMIC.

WE KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES OF  NOT BEING AROUND, NOT BEING HERE AT THE LAW SCHOOL, AND  CERTAINLY WAY DOWN TO THE GRADE SCHOOL LEVEL.

SO IT IS COMPLICATED, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

THERE'S NO SINGLE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE RIGHT ANSWER.

BUT I DO THINK ERRING ON THE SIDE OF TRYING TO DO  EVERYTHING POSSIBLE SO THE KIDS CAN BE AT SCHOOL IS THE  RIGHT ANSWER.

Gene: REBECCA, WE'LL  FINISH WITH YOU.

AGAIN, YOU'RE A PARENT.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY TO PARENTS OUT THERE WHEN IT  COMES TO THEIR KIDS IN SCHOOL AND EVERYTHING ELSE?

YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE ALL  CONNECTED ACROSS.

Rebecca: I THINK, YOU  KNOW, I WOULD JUST -- I LOVE WHAT INEZ SAID, GOING BACK  TO THE ONE-ON-ONE APPROACH AND REALLY TRYING TO TALK TO  IT, AND I AM 1000% BEHIND SERGE.

LIKE, WE'VE GOT TO KEEP THE SCHOOLS OPEN TO THE BEST WE  CAN.

I'M SO GLAD THAT THE PUBLIC  EDUCATION DEPARTMENT AND OUR LARGEST SYSTEM, APS, THAT  THEY'RE BOTH PUTTING OUT PLANS ON HOW DO WE KEEP KIDS  IN SCHOOLS AND HOW DO WE MINIMIZE HAVING TO CLOSE.

I WILL JUST -- I KNOW THAT I AM JUST CONTINUING TO, YOU  KNOW, TO TAKE THAT APPROACH, THE ONE-ON-ONE APPROACH, AND  OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO.

IT'S HAPPENING, AND I THINK WE ALL JUST NEED TO BUCKLE  UP AND PRAY THAT OUR KIDS REMAIN SAFE AND HEALTHY, AND  HEALTHY IN MENTAL HEALTH AND WELL-BEING MEANS BEING IN  THE CLASSROOM.

Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL OF THAT.

IF YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN A VACCINE OR A BOOSTER YET,  YOU CAN FIND OUT WHERE TO GET ONE ON THE STATE HEALTH  DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE.

WE'LL BE BACK WITH THE LINE  IN JUST A MOMENT WITH THEIR THOUGHTS ON WHAT'S BEEN A  RECORD SETTING YEAR FOR CRIME IN OUR STATE'S LARGEST  CITY.

Parker:   HOPE IS A GREAT THING TO USE WHEN WE'RE  GAMBLING, WHEN THE ODDS ARE 50/50, BUT IF YOU ESTABLISH  A SYSTEM OF HOPE IN A WORLD WHERE THE DICE ARE GETTING  INCREASINGLY LOADED, THEN HOPE BECOMES LESS AND LESS  REALISTIC.

Gene:   LOOKING AHEAD TO THE UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE  SESSION, CRIME IS SET TO BE A KEY ISSUE FOR LAWMAKERS.

EARLY RUMBLINGS INDICATE GROWING BIPARTISAN SUPPORT  FOR SEVERAL PROPOSALS.

WE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE  PROPOSAL TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE CHARGED  IN VIOLENT CRIMES TO BE LEASED BEFORE THEIR TRIAL.

NOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS ALSO FLOATED THE IDEA OF A  FUNDING PACKAGE TO HELP THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE  DEPARTMENT HIRE MORE OFFICERS.

WILL CHANGES LIKE THIS BE ENOUGH AND WILL THEY GET  RESULTS FAST ENOUGH?

SERGE MARTINEZ, LET ME START  WITH YOU.

LET ME JUST PUT IT THIS WAY.

IF YOU LIVE IN ALBUQUERQUE, I DON'T CARE WHERE YOU ARE,  YOU ARE NO STRANGER TO CRIME AT THIS POINT, AND AT THIS  POINT, PERCEPTION IS PROBABLY BIGGER THAN REALITY  IN SOME POINTS, BUT REALITY IS PRETTY LOUSY.

HOW SHOULD WE FIRST BE APPROACHING THIS?

WHAT'S OUR ATTITUDE THAT SHOULD BE ABOUT CRIME HERE?

JUST ANGER, OR WHERE SHOULD WE BE PUTTING OUR EMOTIONS  RIGHT NOW?

Serge: I MEAN, YEAH, I  LIVE IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND I'M CERTAINLY AWARE OF THE SORT  OF ZEITGEIST ON THIS PARTICULAR POINT.

I THINK WE ARE SEEING FROM THE LEGISLATURE THE SAME  RESPONSE.

IT'S HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE  GOING TO HAVE THIS EXACT SAME RESPONSE?

OH, THERE'S A PERCEPTION, AND THERE'S A LOT OF  DIFFERENT DATA THAT GO INTO THIS, THAT CRIME IS UP,  THEREFORE OUR RESPONSE IS, LET'S TALK ABOUT GETTING  TOUGH ON CRIME, RIGHT, AND THAT RESPONSE -- I MEAN, HOW  MANY TIMES ARE WE GOING TO SAY, OH, HERE'S THE SAME  PROBLEM, LET'S TRY THE SAME THING, BUT HARDER THIS TIME,  AND THEN BE SURPRISED WHEN THINGS DON'T CHANGE.

I THINK IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT WE SEEM TO JUST HAVE  TUNNEL VISION WHEN IT COMES TO THIS AND SAYING, WE'RE  JUST GOING TO FOCUS ON, LET'S TALK ABOUT SEVERITY OF  SENTENCES, WHICH WE KNOW IS NOT A GREAT DETERRENT OF  CRIME.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE  GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR FOLKS TO GET  OUT OF PRETRIAL DETENTION.

IT'S TURNED ON ITS HEAD,  RIGHT.

PUTTING THE BURDEN ON THE  FOLKS WHO ARE IN THAT SITUATION MEANS, GUESS WHO  IS GOING TO BE SUFFERING THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THAT?

THE FOLKS WHO CAN'T AFFORD LAWYERS.

SO ONCE AGAIN, WE'VE SORT OF SAID, LET'S TRY TO MAKE THIS  SYSTEM APPEAR AS TOUGH, WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING  ANYTHING INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE SYSTEMIC CAUSES AND  SYSTEMIC ISSUES.

HOUSING STABILITY, WAGES,  SOCIAL SERVICES, PUBLIC HEALTH, MENTAL HEALTH  SERVICES.

THESE SORTS OF THINGS,  THEY'RE NOT AS SEXY OR AS EXCITING AND DON'T MAKE FOR  GOOD HEADLINES.

SO I THINK WE SHOULD BE  ATTUNED TO AN INCREASE IN CRIME, BUT MAKE SURE THAT  OUR FOCUS IS NOT ON SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO  BE FLASHY.

AND THE ONE-WAY RATCHET OF  TOUGH ON CRIME IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDO, ALTHOUGH  WE HAVE SEEN SOME STRIDES IN THAT RECENTLY AS FOLKS HAVE  COME TO THEIR SENSES.

BUT I THINK TAKING A REAL  RATIONAL LOOK -- I UNDERSTAND, RIGHT.

IT CAN BE REALLY SCARY AND CAUSE PEOPLE TO JUST WANT TO  FOCUS ON THIS THING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM AND SOMETHING  THAT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE REASONABLE RESPONSE.

BUT WE KNOW THAT THAT HAS NOT BEEN A SUCCESSFUL  SOLUTION THE OTHER 50 TIMES WE'VE TRIED IT.

Gene: INTERESTING POINTS.

REBECCA, HERE'S AN INTERESTING WAY TO LOOK AT  THIS.

I HAD A CONSERVATIVE FRIEND  OVER THE WEEKEND TELL ME -- WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS  UPCOMING SESSION AND HOW DEMOCRATS REALLY WANT TO GET  AFTER CRIME, AND HIS POINT WAS, DEMOCRATS TRYING TO GET  IN FRONT OF THIS CRIME THING AND SHOW OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO  GO IS LIKE BUTCHERS TRYING TO SHOW PEOPLE HOW TO BE  CARPENTERS.

IT'S JUST NOT THEIR THING.

THE WAY HE SAID IT JUST CRACKED ME UP.

I WAS LIKE, OKAY, I SEE YOUR POINT HERE, BUT SOMEONE HAS  TO DO SOMETHING.

IS THAT LEGIT?

I MEAN, DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT, IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT IT,  BEEN THE PEOPLE TO REALLY PUT THEIR HEEL DOWN ON CRIME  AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ALL THAT KIND OF A THING HERE.

IS IT CREDIBLE TO HAVE THEM LEADING THE CHARGE HERE?

Rebecca: YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S A VALID POINT.

FOR ME, I WORKED IN THE MARTINEZ ADMINISTRATION FOR  NEARLY FIVE YEARS, AND I THINK THERE IS DEFINITELY A  PART OF THIS THAT I WAS LIKE, OH, NOW IT'S  IMPORTANT.

OKAY, I SEE WHAT'S  HAPPENING.

BUT I THINK WHAT WE REALLY  HAVE TO DO IS CHALLENGE OUR REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS TO GET  PAST THAT, BECAUSE WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING, RIGHT.

WE ALL WANT A BETTER NEW MEXICO.

SO WHEN I READ THAT REPRESENTATIVES REHM AND  MAESTAS WERE WORKING TOGETHER ON A BILL, IT WAS  LIKE, IS HELL FREEZING OVER?

IT'S INCREDIBLE.

THAT'S THE KIND OF BIPARTISANSHIP THAT WE NEED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS -- IT DOES FEEL A LITTLE KIND OF  INSULTING, AND I THINK IT WAS BRANDT WHO BROUGHT THAT  UP.

LIKE, OH, SO WHAT YOU'RE  SAYING NOW, BY HAVING ALL THESE DEMOCRATICALLY  SPONSORED BILLS, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING NOW IS THAT WE WERE  RIGHT ALL ALONG, THE CONSERVATIVES WERE RIGHT ALL  ALONG THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IT.

AS FAR AS OVERALL, THOUGH, I THINK THIS IS NEVER GOING TO  BE A LINEAR SOLUTION.

WE CAN'T EAT THIS ELEPHANT  ONE BITE AT A TIME, WE HAVE TO HAVE MULTIPLE PEOPLE  EATING THE ELEPHANT FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES.

SO THE ADDRESSING OF HOW ARE WE BEST SERVING OUR  CONSTITUENCY WHO NEEDS LONG-TERM HELP AND  ASSISTANCE VERSUS HOW ARE WE BEST SERVING OUR  CONSTITUENCY BY FIGHTING AND CLAMPING DOWN ON SOME OF THE  BIGGER ISSUES.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME  AT IT FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES.

Gene: THAT'S A GOOD  POINT THERE.

INEZ, INTERESTINGLY THERE'S  KIND OF A LACK OF SPECIFICS TO THIS POINT.

EARLY INDICATIONS SHOW BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, THOUGH,  AS REBECCA JUST MENTIONED, FOR A CRIME CRACKDOWN OF  SOME SORT.

REPUBLICANS HAVE LONG BEEN  KNOWN AS THE PARTY OF LAW AND ORDER, AS WE KNOW.

WILL THEY BE CONTENT TO LET DEMOCRATS TAKE THE LEAD ON  THIS, ESPECIALLY GOING INTO AN ELECTION DEAL?

Inez: I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE CONTENT,  BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR AND  DEMOCRATIC MAJORITIES IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE  SENATE, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU HAVE MUCH OF A CHOICE IN  WHO'S TAKING THE LEAD, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE  WRITING BILLS.

WHAT I FEAR IS ALONG THE  LINES OF WHAT SERGE WAS SAYING, IS THAT THE  SOLUTIONS WE'RE PROPOSING HAVEN'T WORKED IN THE PAST  AND THEY WON'T WORK NOW.

I'M EVEN LESS SEXY THAN HE  IS.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY YOU WANT  LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS LIKE INVESTMENTS IN EDUCATION,  INVESTMENTS IN BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, BOTH OF WHICH ARE  HAPPENING, BUT I WANT SHORT AND KIND OF MEDIUM-TERM  INVESTMENTS THAT ARE VERY BORING.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO HIRE MORE POLICE OFFICERS, THEN YOU  HAVE TO HIRE MORE PUBLIC DEFENDERS, YOU HAVE TO HIRE  MORE PROSECUTORS, YOU HAVE TO HIRE COURT CLERKS TO  ENTER THE CONVICTIONS SO WHEN I GET ARRESTED FOR MY  FOURTH ARREST, IT SHOWS THAT I HAVE PRIOR CONVICTIONS AND  I CAN BE SENTENCED AS A HABITUAL OFFENDER.

WE HAVE NEGLECTED THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR  SO MANY YEARS IN SO MANY WAYS THAT PASSING A BUNCH OF  LAWS AND NOT HAVING THE PEOPLE TO PROS KITE, DEFEND,  OR HECK, TAKE CARE OF THEM IN THE JAIL IF THEY'RE  THERE, JUST MAKES A MESS.

SO YOU HAVE GREAT HEADLINES  THIS SESSION, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS IN A FEW YEARS?

AND THINK ABOUT, IF THEY CAN AMEND THE PRETRIAL  DETENTION, WHO'S GOING TO BE WATCHING THOSE PEOPLE IN  JAILS THAT ARE FULL OF COVID AND FULL OF PEOPLE WHO  SEEMINGLY ARE BEATING PRISONERS AND OTHERWISE  MISTREATING THEM WITHOUT SUPERVISION, AND ARE SHORT  STAFFED?

Gene: THAT'S AN  EXCELLENT POINT.

Inez: IS ANYBODY LOOKING  AT THE BIG PICTURE AT ALL IN THIS STATE?

Gene: THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT.

I HADN'T REALLY CONSIDERED THAT.

I APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING THAT ON THE TABLE.

HEY, SERGE, TUESDAY THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL HAD A  VERY INTERESTING EDITORIAL FROM THE EDITORIAL BOARD.

IT READ IN PART -- LET ME READ IT TO YOU:  "IT'S TIME KELLER AND APD POLICE CHIEF HAROLD MEDINA  GET BACK TO BASICS.

BEEFING UP POLICE PRESENCE  HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TENT POLE OF THE MAYOR'S CRIME  FIGHTING AGENDA, BUT IT NEEDS RESULTS.

CITIZENS WANT AND NEED TO SEE MORE OFFICERS ON THE  STREETS RESTORING PERCEPTIONS OF A CITY ROOTED  IN LAW AND ORDER.

ALBUQUERQUE, LIKE THE ROME  OF YESTERYEAR, IS BURNING."

IT'S VERY INTERESTING LITTLE  BIT THERE.

WHAT THEY'RE GETTING AT HERE  IN THE FULL SENSE OF IT IS IF PEOPLE DON'T SEE POLICE  ON THE STREET, IF THEY DON'T SEE POLICE CARS ON THE  CORNERS, IF THEY DON'T SEE POLICE CARS DURING FESTIVALS  OF LIGHTS WHERE TODDLERS ARE KILLED BY PEOPLE WITH  SIDE-BY-SIDES RACING UP AND DOWN THE STREET, YOU KNOW,  REACHING BACK TO SYSTEMIC ROOT CAUSES IS NOT GOING TO  GET ANYBODY ANYWHERE ON THE PERCEPTION DEAL.

ARE THEY RIGHT ON THIS AS THEY PROPOSE IT?

Serge: I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY SOME REALLY  INTERESTING DATA OUT THERE THAT SOME FOLKS HAVE  PUBLISHED IN THE LAST LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN  YOU INCREASE POLICE PRESENCE, AND IT'S A LITTLE  BIT MIXED.

IN SOME CASES, IT DOES  REDUCE VIOLENT CRIMES.

IN SOME PLACES, IT DOESN'T.

WHAT IT ALWAYS DOES IS INCREASE THE NUMBER OF FOLKS  WHO ARE CAUGHT UP IN THE SYSTEM FOR WHAT WE MIGHT  CALL QUALITY OF LIFE CRIMES, RIGHT, AND THOSE ARE  DISPROPORTIONATELY GOING TO BE POOR PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO  AREN'T WHITE.

SO INCREASING POLICE  PRESENCE MAY HAVE THIS EFFECT OF, AGAIN, REDUCING  THE VIOLENT CRIME, WHICH IS A GOOD THING, BUT IF IT'S  DONE WITHOUT AN EYE TO, SAY, WHAT ARE WE FOCUSING ON,  WHAT ARE WE DOING THIS FOR, IT JUST ENDS UP WITH A BUNCH  OF FOLKS, POOR FOLKS GETTING TICKETS FOR PUBLIC DRINKING.

THEN THE BALANCE IS OFF ON THAT, I THINK.

Gene: LET ME CHALLENGE YOU THERE A BIT, SERGE.

IF IT IS ABOUT PUBLIC DRINKING, I DON'T THINK THAT  WOULD LAST TOO LONG, BUT WHAT IF IT IS ABOUT RATES OF  VIOLENT CRIMES AND OTHER THINGS DROPPING JUST A  LITTLE BIT, WOULD THAT NOT MAKE THE POINT THAT PERHAPS  REMOVING THE PEOPLE -- BECAUSE THE ADMINISTRATION  ALWAYS SAYS, IT'S A VERY SMALL MINORITY OF PEOPLE  COMMITTING MOST OF THE CRIMES.

THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN A BIG THING FOR THEM.

WHY ARE WE NOT JUST LOCKING UP THESE PEOPLE IF THAT'S  THE CASE?

I HATE TO BE SO BLUNT ABOUT IT, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE  PRETTY OBVIOUS.

Serge: LIKE I SAID, THE  DATA SEEM TO SAY THAT BETWEEN 10 AND 17 OFFICERS  EQUAL ONE HOMICIDE.

SO IT'S HARD TO MAKE A  CALCULUS ON THAT.

BUT THAT'S IN THE PLACES  WHERE IT DOES HAVE A DIFFERENCE.

IN SOME PLACES, SURPRISINGLY IT SEEMS LIKE CITIES THAT  HAVE A LARGE BLACK POPULATION, YOU DON'T SEE  THAT DIFFERENCE.

NO ONE CAN REALLY EXPLAIN  THE WHY, AND THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT SOURCES OF DATA  THAT I WAS LOOKING AT.

BUT, YEAH, AS I WAS SAYING  BEFORE, HARSH SENTENCES AREN'T THE DETERRENT THAT WE  THINK THEY ARE.

CERTAINTY OF APPREHENSION IS  A REAL DETERRENT, RIGHT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS  WHEN YOU SEE MORE POLICE OUT THERE.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE THAT THAT IS A BAD THING.

WHAT I AM GOING TO SAY IS, IF WE THEN, INSTEAD OF  FOCUSING ON THESE OTHER THINGS, RIGHT, THAT THEN GET  A CRIMINAL RECORD FOR SOMEBODY WHO THEN HAS  TROUBLE GETTING A JOB OR FINDING A PLACE TO LIVE,  RATHER THAN ONLY FOCUS ON THAT, BUT INSTEAD WE HAVE  OUR POLICE OUT THERE FOCUSING ON THE BIG THINGS,  BUT ALSO SMALLER THINGS, YOU KNOW, ENFORCING SPEEDING AND  WHATNOT -- THERE ARE SOME CITIES THAT ARE  EXPERIMENTING WITH SEPARATING POLICE FROM  TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS IT THAT THE POLICE ARE GOOD AT  AND WHAT ARE THEY NOT GOOD AT, THAT REQUIRES MORE THAN  JUST SAYING, HERE'S A LOT OF MONEY, THIS WILL TOTALLY FIX  THE PROBLEM.

Gene: REBECCA, WE'RE  JUST ABOUT TO WRAP UP HERE.

ARE WE ASKING TOO MUCH OF  OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT HERE?

WE CAN'T RECRUIT PEOPLE.

STATE POLICE ARE DOWN, I THINK 11% VACANCY RATE.

SANTA FE, OF COURSE, WHERE INEZ IS, SAME THING.

IS IT ABOUT FUNDING OR IF PEOPLE JUST WANT TO DO THE  DANG JOB?

Rebecca: I PERSONALLY  DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ANY DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT'S  GOING TO FIX THIS PROBLEM.

I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR'S  $100 MILLION PACKAGE TO HIRE MORE POLICE OFFICERS WILL DO  ANYTHING.

I DON'T THINK THE 5% RAISE,  10%, 20%, 50% RAISE FOR OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IS  GOING TO DO ANYTHING TO RETAIN THEM, AND WE'VE  TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

I THINK IT'S CULTURAL.

AND I DO THINK THAT THEY'VE BEEN PUT, IN THE CASE OF  APD, I THINK THEY'VE BEEN PUT IN A NEAR IMPOSSIBLE  SITUATION WHERE THEY'VE GOTTEN THE FEELING THAT  THEIR ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T BACK THEM UP, THE PEOPLE  DON'T ALWAYS BACK THEM UP, THEIR HANDS ARE TIED WITH  REGARDS TO THE AMOUNT OF PAPERWORK THAT THEY'RE  REQUIRED TO DO TO CLEAR UP OLD THINGS, IT'S MAKING IT  IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO THEIR CURRENT JOB, AND ALL  OF THOSE ISSUES CREATE A SCENARIO IN WHICH NOBODY  WANTS TO BE A COP ANYMORE, YOU KNOW, AND THE PEOPLE WHO  ARE DOING IT ARE DOING IT PERHAPS FOR THE WRONG  REASONS.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE  ANSWER IS, AGAIN, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S MONEY.

Gene: I APPRECIATE THAT LAST POINT THERE.

IT ACTUALLY LAYERS ON THE MANY LAYERS OF DIFFICULTY  WE'RE GOING TO FACE HERE WITH THIS ISSUE.

THANK YOU ALL.

ALL RIGHT, THE LEGISLATIVE  SESSION BEGINS AT NOON ON JANUARY 18th.

BE SURE TO WATCH THE GOVERNOR'S  STATE-OF-THE-STATE ADDRESS LIVE RIGHT HERE ON NEW  MEXICO PBS.

Gene: DROUGHT AND FIRE  ARE ON LOTS OF PEOPLE'S MINDS IN THE WEST EVEN NOW,  ESPECIALLY SINCE COLORADO JUST EXPERIENCED A  DEVASTATING WILDFIRE IN DECEMBER.

THE MARSHALL FIRE BURNED A THOUSAND HOMES IN BOULDER  COUNTY AT A TIME OF YEAR WHEN THE GROUND SHOULD BE  SNOW COVERED.

RECENTLY, CORRESPONDENT  LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH PARKER WILLIAMS, A  BIOCLIMATOLOGIST FROM UCLA.

HE STUDIES TODAY'S DROUGHT  IN THE U.S. SOUTHWEST AND HOW IT COMPARES TO THE MEGA  DROUGHTS OF THE PAST.

HE ALSO STUDIES WILDFIRE IN  THE WEST AND HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS AFFECTING FIRES  AND LANDSCAPES.

Laura: PARK WILLIAMS,  WELCOME.

THANKS FOR JOINING ME ON NEW  MEXICO In FOCUS.

Parker: YEAH, YOU BET.

Laura: SO YOU'RE A BIOCLIMATOLOGIST.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Parker: SOMEBODY WHO  CAN'T DECIDE WHETHER THEY LIKE TO STUDY THE LIFE MORE  OR THE CLIMATE MORE.

CLIMATE AFFECTS LIFE, AND  LIFE AFFECTS CLIMATE.

VEGETATION LIFE IS SOMETHING  I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN, AND THAT ESPECIALLY HAS A  BIG EFFECT ON CLIMATE.

AND SO I STUDY BOTH AND CALL  MYSELF A BIOCLIMATOLOGIST.

Laura: LET'S START WITH  THE DROUGHT THAT'S KIND OF BEEN MOVING AROUND THE U.S.  SOUTHWEST FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS IN SORT OF DIFFERENT  INTENSITIES AND DIFFERENT PLACES OVER TIME.

DROUGHT IS A PART OF LIFE IN THE SOUTHWEST, IN GENERAL,  BUT THIS DROUGHT HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY SEVERE, EVEN  WHEN YOU LOOK BACK OVER LONG RECORDS.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THIS DROUGHT IS SO  SEVERE COMPARED TO ANYTHING WE'VE CERTAINLY EVER  EXPERIENCED BEFORE?

Parker: YEAH.

SO YES, LIKE YOU JUST SAID, THE WESTERN U.S. AND  NORTHERN MEXICO HAVE BEEN IN NEAR PERPETUAL DROUGHT FOR  THE LAST 22 YEARS NOW.

DRY CONDITIONS REALLY SET IN  IN THE '99-2000, AND IT'S 2021 NOW, SO WE'RE IN OUR  22nd YEAR.

IT HASN'T BEEN DRY FOR 22  STRAIGHT YEARS IN EVERY INDIVIDUAL PLACE, BUT IF YOU  LOOK OVER THE WHOLE WESTERN U.S. AND NORTHERN MEXICO,  THEN OF THE LAST 22 YEARS, 18 OF THEM HAVE BEEN DRIER  THAN AVERAGE.

AVERAGE WOULD BE NINE BEING  DRIER THAN AVERAGE, AND THE OTHER NINE OR SO BEING  WETTER THAN AVERAGE.

SO THAT SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY  UNIQUE SITUATION,  INTERESTING AND CONSEQUENTIAL.

WE'VE SEEN BIG CONSEQUENCES, OF COURSE.

WE'VE SEEN BIG DECLINES IN OUR BIGGEST RESERVOIRS, LAKE  MEAD AND POWELL.

WE'VE SEEN BIG BARK BEETLE  OUTBREAKS, GIGANTIC INCREASE IN FOREST FIRE ACTIVITY,  UNSUSTAINABLE DRILLING OF GROUNDWATER, ESPECIALLY IN  CALIFORNIA'S CENTRAL VALLEY.

SO THESE THINGS ALL SAY TO  US THAT SOMETHING ABNORMAL IS GOING ON, BUT IT'S HARD  TO KNOW HOW ABNORMAL BECAUSE OUR CLIMATE RECORDS ONLY GO  BACK FOR ABOUT 120 YEARS, AND THEY START BECOMING LESS  RELIABLE THE FURTHER BACK WE GO.

LUCKILY, WE HAVE TREE RING RECORDS FROM ALL OVER  WESTERN NORTH AMERICA FROM TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TREES  THAT GO BACK FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, OR SOMETIMES EVEN  THOUSANDS OF YEARS, AND BECAUSE WESTERN NORTH  AMERICA IS GENERALLY A PRETTY DRY PLACE WHERE  FORESTS ARE OFTENTIMES LIVING ON THE BOUNDARY  BETWEEN JUST WET ENOUGH TO SURVIVE AND TOO DRY TO  SURVIVE, THEN THEIR ANNUAL GROWTH RINGS -- THESE ARE  THE TREE RINGS THAT YOU SEE ON THE TREE TRUNK.

THESE ANNUAL RINGS ON THE TREE, THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY  ANNUAL, THEY GROW ONCE A YEAR, AND BECAUSE TREES ARE  GENERALLY STRESSED OUT BY WATER LIMITATION, THEN THE  SKINNY ANNUAL GROWTH RINGS MEAN YEARS OF BAD GROWTH,  AND THE THICK ANNUAL GROWTH RINGS MEAN RECORDS OF GOOD  GROWTH.

AND IF WE MEASURE ALL THE  GROWTH RINGS FROM ALL THESE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TREES,  WHICH SCIENTISTS HAVE DONE OVER THE LAST CENTURY, AND  YOU TAKE ALL OF THESE TREES AND AVERAGE THEM TOGETHER,  THEN WHAT YOU GET IS A REMARKABLY ACCURATE RECORD  OF SOIL MOISTURE THAT GOES BACK FOR OVER 1200 YEARS.

FROM THOSE RECORDS OF SOIL MOISTURE THAT GO BACK 1200  YEARS, WE CAN SEE THAT ACTUALLY GIANT DROUGHTS ARE  PRETTY COMMON.

ESPECIALLY FROM ABOUT 800  A.D. TO 1600 A.D., THERE WERE THESE REPEATED GIANT  DROUGHT EVENTS THAT SCIENTISTS IN THE 1990s  STARTED CALLING MEGA DROUGHTS.

THEY WERE CALLED MEGA DROUGHTS BECAUSE THEY WERE  DIFFERENT FROM ANYTHING THAT MODERN SOCIETY HAD HAD TO  DEAL WITH.

THE 1800s AND 1900s  HADN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THE MEGA DROUGHTS.

THE MEGA DROUGHTS ARE REALLY SEVERE FOR DECADES ON END,  MORE SEVERE AND LONGER LASTING THAN MOST LIKELY  HUMAN INFRASTRUCTURE IS REALLY ESTABLISHED TO  HANDLE.

THE QUESTION WAS, HOW BAD IS  THIS RECENT DROUGHT OR THIS CURRENT DROUGHT COMPARED TO  THOSE MEGA DROUGHTS, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS  I'VE BEEN WORKING TO ANSWER.

Laura: SO HOW DOES  PRECIPITATION AND HOW DOES TEMPERATURE, HOW DO THOSE  TWO THINGS FACTOR INTO WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW?

Parker: WELL, THE WATER BALANCE IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY  SIMPLE THING.

WE CAN THINK ABOUT THE LAND  AS A BIG BUCKET.

PRECIPITATION WORKS TO FILL  UP THE BUCKET, AND THEN VARIABLES LIKE TEMPERATURE  AND HUMIDITY AND WIND SPEED AND HOW MUCH SUNLIGHT THERE  IS WORK TO EMPTY OUT THE BUCKET.

WHEN THE BUCKET GETS TOO FULL AND YOU GET EXTRA  PRECIPITATION, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, BECAUSE IT  RUNS OFF, JUST LIKE IT DOES IN THE REAL WORLD.

AND IF YOU EMPTY OUT THE BUCKET AND THEN CONTINUE TO  TRY AND EVAPORATE WATER, THERE'S NOTHING LEFT.

SO USING CLIMATE DATA, WE CAN ACTUALLY MAKE  CALCULATIONS ABOUT HOW MUCH WATER IS IN THE BUCKET IN  ANY INDIVIDUAL PLACE ACROSS WESTERN NORTH AMERICA AT ANY  GIVEN TIME.

SO WE USE CLIMATE DATA TO  MAKE CALCULATIONS OF THE MOISTURE BALANCE, AND WHEN  WE DO THAT, WHAT WE SEE IS THAT THE LAST 22 YEARS, WHEN  WE'VE RECONSTRUCTED THESE BUCKET MOISTURE BALANCE  CALCULATIONS BACK FOR 1200 YEARS, WE SEE THAT THE LAST  22 YEARS IN WESTERN NORTH AMERICA ARE AS DRY OR DRIER  THAN ANY OTHER 22-YEAR PERIOD IN AT LEAST THE LAST  1200 YEARS.

BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS IS  DONE WITH MATHEMATICS, BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING THESE  CALCULATIONS OF HOW MUCH WATER IS IN THE BUCKET USING  MATH, WE CAN THEN DELVE INTO THE HYPOTHETICAL WORLD WHERE  WE SAY, WELL, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF GLOBAL  WARMING HADN'T OCCURRED?

AND SO WE CAN RECALCULATE  HOW MUCH WATER WOULD BE IN THE BUCKET TODAY IF THE  GLOBE HADN'T WARMED OVER THE LAST CENTURY.

AND WHAT WE SEE IS BECAUSE PART OF THIS DROUGHT HAS  BEEN NATURALLY DRIVEN, WE STILL WOULD BE IN A DROUGHT  RIGHT NOW EVEN WITHOUT GLOBAL WARMING, BUT THE  DROUGHT WOULD PROBABLY BE ONLY ABOUT HALF AS SEVERE,  MAYBE 60% OF ITS SEVERITY NOW.

THAT MEANS THAT THIS RESULT THAT THE CURRENT 22-YEAR  DROUGHT IS COMPETING WITH THE MEGA DROUGHTS FOR DRIEST  PERIOD IN THE LAST 1200 YEARS, THAT RESULT IS REALLY  ESTABLISHED OR IS POSSIBLE ONLY BECAUSE OF TWO THINGS.

ONE, 22 YEARS OF BAD LUCK.

BUT ALSO, 22 YEARS OF  ABNORMALLY WARM TEMPERATURES.

ABNORMALLY WARM TEMPERATURES WORK TO ENHANCE EVAPORATION  RATES.

WHEN THERE'S WATER IN THE  SOIL, THAT WATER STICKS AROUND LESS,   STICKS AROUND FOR A SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME  BECAUSE THE WORLD IS WARMER.

Laura: SO I WANT TO  MIGRATE KIND OF INTO FIRE NEXT.

IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES, HOW HAS FIRE SEASON  CHANGED?

AND KIND OF WHAT TIME PERIOD  ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

Parker: OVER THE LAST  CENTURY, THE FIRE ACTIVITY IN THE WEST HAS INCREASED,  BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT INCREASE HAS OCCURRED  SINCE THE LATE '70s OR EARLY 1980s.

OUR REALLY GOOD RECORDS OF FIRE START IN 1984, AND  THAT'S WHEN WE START HAVING  REALLY GOOD HIGH-RESOLUTION SATELLITE IMAGERY THAT  ALLOWS US TO MAP WHERE EXACTLY EACH FIRE OCCURRED.

AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS ACROSS THE WESTERN UNITED  STATES, WHERE WE'VE GOT REALLY GOOD DATA GOING BACK  TO 1984, THAT OVER THE LAST NEARLY FOUR DECADES, WE'VE  SEEN THE ANNUAL AREA BURNED INCREASE BY OVER 300%.

OVER 300% MEANS THREE TO FOUR TIMES AS MUCH FIRE  BURNING AS MUCH AREA, LAND AREA BURNING TODAY AS WOULD  BE EXPECTED IN AN AVERAGE YEAR IN THE 1970s OR  1980s.

BUT IF YOU LOOK DEEPER AND  SEE WHERE THESE INCREASES ARE REALLY OCCURRING, THEN  WE SEE THAT THEY'RE MOSTLY OCCURRING IN FORESTED AREAS.

FOREST FIRE AREA IS INCREASED BY OVER 1300%  SINCE THE MID 1980s, WHEREAS OUTSIDE OF FORESTED  AREA, THE INCREASE IN BURNED AREA HAS BEEN ABOUT 165%.

AN INCREASE IN 165% IS STILL A BIG DEAL.

IT MEANS MORE THAN A DOUBLING OF AREA BURNED IN  NONFORESTED AREA, AND IF THE FOREST FIRE TREND WASN'T SO  HUGE, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT, IS  THE DOUBLING OR TRIPLING OF BURNED AREA IN NONFORESTED  AREAS.

BUT FOREST FIRE HAS REALLY  STOLEN THE SHOW.

SO THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS  THIS OCCURRING?

WHY ARE FOREST FIRES GETTING  SO MUCH BIGGER?

THE INTERESTING THING IS  THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY NOT GETTING THAT MUCH MORE  FREQUENT.

THERE'S ACTUALLY NOT MANY  MORE FOREST FIRES TODAY THAN THERE WERE IN THE 1980s.

THE THING IS THAT THE FOREST FIRES THAT ARE OCCURRING  TODAY ARE WAY BIGGER THAN THE FOREST FIRES IN THE  1980s, AND THAT TREND WAS ALREADY GETTING CONCERNING  TEN YEARS AGO.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST  COUPLE OF YEARS ARE REALLY BLOWING PEOPLE'S MINDS.

IN 2020, THE AREA BURNED IN 2020 ALMOST TRIPLED THE  PREVIOUS RECORD IN CALIFORNIA.

THE PREVIOUS RECORD HAD JUST BEEN SET IN 2017 AND 2018,  AND THAT SEEMED EXTREME AT THE TIME, AND THEN 2021 HAS  ALMOST REACHED THE 2020 LEVEL.

FOREST FIRE IS ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT IS INCREASING  NOT IN SMALL INCREMENTAL BITS, BUT EXPONENTIALLY.

AND WHEN WE COMPARE THE ANNUAL AREA BURNED OF FOREST  TO CLIMATE, IT'S REALLY CLEAR THAT THE MAIN DRIVER  IS A DRYING OF THE CLIMATE.

AS THE ATMOSPHERE HAS GOTTEN  WARMER AND DRIER OVER THE LAST FOUR DECADES, THE FIRE  GROWTH HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED IN A VERY  PREDICTABLE WAY.

EVEN THOUGH 2020 WAS SUCH AN  EXTREME OUTLIER, IF YOU JUST LOOK AT HOW MUCH BURNED  EVERY YEAR, THAT OUTLIER WAS ACTUALLY TOTALLY PREDICTABLE  BASED ON HOW WARM AND DRY IT WAS IN 2020, AND 2021 IS THE  SAME STORY.

Laura: IT FEELS TO ME  LIKE WE ARE ON A TRAJECTORY, AND THERE MIGHT BE GOOD  YEARS AND BAD YEARS, BUT I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN TALK A  LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT  FOR THE FUTURE.

Parker: YEAH, FROM THE  PERSPECTIVE OF DROUGHT AND FIRE, I THINK THAT HOPE IS  INCREASINGLY A BAD THING TO LEAN ON.

HOPE IS A GREAT THING TO USE WHEN WE'RE GAMBLING WHEN THE  ODDS ARE 50/50, BUT IF YOU ESTABLISH A SYSTEM OF HOPE  IN A WORLD WHERE THE DICE ARE GETTING INCREASINGLY  LOADED, THEN HOPE BECOMES LESS AND LESS REALISTIC.

BUT IT'S STILL CLEAR THAT WE'RE RELYING FAR TOO MUCH  ON HOPE.

THE FOREST SERVICE THIS YEAR  GAVE US A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS WHERE FOREST FIRES WERE  SO EXTENSIVE THIS SUMMER ACROSS NORTHERN CALIFORNIA  AND OREGON AND WASHINGTON AND SOME OF THE NORTHERN  ROCKY AREAS THAT THE CHIEF OF THE FOREST SERVICE  DECLARED THAT FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR, THE FOREST  SERVICE WOULD NOT BE DOING ANY MORE CONTROLLED BURNS OR  MANAGEMENT OF WILDFIRE IN WAYS THAT ALLOW WILDFIRE TO  BURN IN ECOLOGICALLY FAVORABLE WAYS.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE FOREST SERVICE DECIDED THEY  WERE SO SPREAD THIN ON FIGHTING FIRES, THEY NEEDED  TO JUST FOCUS ON FIGHTING FIRES AND NOT USE ANY  RESOURCES TOWARD USING FIRE TO BURN FORESTED LANDSCAPES  IN ORDER TO EAT AWAY AT THIS FIRE DEFICIT THAT WE'VE BEEN  BUILDING FOR THE LAST CENTURY BY FIGHTING FIRES.

MANY OF THE FORESTS IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES ARE  ARTIFICIALLY DENSE BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY  FIGHTING FIRES FOR A CENTURY, MEANING THE AREAS  THAT COULD HAVE BURNED IN THE 1950s AND '60s  DIDN'T AND TODAY THERE'S MORE FUEL ON THE LANDSCAPE  THAN THERE WOULD BE OTHERWISE, SO THAT WHEN THE  INEVITABLE FIRE COMES TODAY IN A WARMER WORLD, THEN THAT  FIRE IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BURN VERY INTENSELY.

THAT STORY IS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN SOUTHWESTERN FORESTS  WHERE BEFORE WE STARTED MESSING WITH FIRES BY  SUPPRESSING THEM SO MUCH, FIRES WERE COMING THROUGH  PONDEROSA PINE FORESTS IN THE SOUTHWEST EVERY 5 TO 15  YEARS, ACCORDING TO TREE RING RECORDS.

WHEN WE KEEP FIRE FROM VISITING A PONDEROSA PINE  FOREST FOR A CENTURY, THEN THAT MEANS WE ARE THROWING  THAT FOREST COMPLETELY OUT OF WHACK AND SETTING IT UP  FOR A MAJOR FIRE DISASTER.

SO WHY WOULD WE NOT DO  CONTROLLED BURNS AS A MEANS OF TRYING TO PRIORITIZE, OR  MORE EASILY PRIORITIZING FIREFIGHTING?

WELL, THE REASON WAS BECAUSE THEY SAY THAT RESOURCES WERE  TOO SPREAD THIN FIGHTING FIRES.

BUT THAT KIND OF IMPLIES THIS LEVEL OF HOPE THAT NEXT  IS GOING TO BE BETTER, AND NEXT YEAR WE CAN THEN DO THE  CONTROLLED BURNS, WHICH IS NOT WISE, BECAUSE AS WE GO  ALONG IN TIME, YES, NEXT YEAR COULD BE WETTER, BUT  EVERY YEAR THAT WE GO INTO THE FUTURE, THE CHANCES THAT  THAT YEAR IS WETTER GO DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN IN THE  WEST, ESPECIALLY THE SOUTHWEST.

2021 ACTUALLY PRESENTED A  HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR FIRE MANAGEMENT IN THE SOUTHWEST  BECAUSE, YES, WHILE IT WAS A REALLY BAD FIRE SEASON UP IN  THE NORTHWEST, THERE WAS A GREAT MONSOON ACROSS A LOT  OF THE SOUTHWEST GIVING FOREST MANAGERS A UNIQUE  OPPORTUNITY TO DO LOW RISK CONTROLLED BURNING IN  SOUTHWESTERN FORESTS, AND WE LOST THAT CHANCE BECAUSE THE  FOREST SERVICE TOOK A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL GOVERNMENT  TYPE APPROACH WHERE THEY SAID, NO MATTER WHAT, IF  IT'S A FOREST IN THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE NOT GOING TO  BE DOING PRESCRIBED BURNING.

Laura: THANKS PARK  WILLIAMS FOR JOINING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

Parker: THANK YOU.

Gene:   A STATE COMMISSION WANTS TO MAKE FINANCIAL  INTERESTS IN THE ROUNDHOUSE MORE TRANSPARENT.

THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION IS CALLING FOR STRICTER  RULES WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES FOR  STATE LAWMAKERS.

THE COMMISSION CALLS THE  CURRENT LAW "VAGUE AND UNDEMANDING."

INTERESTING WORD THERE, UNDEMANDING.

IT WANTS TO REQUIRE MORE DETAILED REPORTS ON INCOME  AND FINANCIAL INTERESTS, SAYING THAT WOULD DETER  CORRUPTION AND INCREASE TRANSPARENCY.

GIVEN LAST YEAR'S RESIGNATION FROM HOUSE  SPEAKER SHERYL WILLIAMS STAPLETON AMIDST ALLEGATIONS  SHE MISUSED HER POSITION WITH APS, ARE THESE  NECESSARY, REBECCA LATHAM, ARE THESE NECESSARY CHANGES  AS YOU SEE THEM?

Rebecca: WHEN YOU READ  THAT DISCLOSURE ACT AS IT'S PROPOSED, IT FEELS WAY  OVERBOARD.

I MEAN, GETTING DOWN TO LIKE  REPORTING GIFTS THAT YOUR CHILDREN RECEIVE -- I'M  FULLY IN FAVOR OF MORE TRANSPARENCY.

WE ALL WANT A MORE TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT.

BUT THIS JUST FEELS REALLY BURDENSOME.

AND I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT, LIKE, THE STATE WANTS  TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR MONEY, BUT THEY'RE NOT  PREPARED TO GIVE YOU AN HONEST INCOME, RIGHT.

THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE NOT RECEIVING ANY MONEY.

Gene: I LOVE THAT.

Rebecca: SO I WORRY.

WHILE WE LOVE TRANSPARENCY, I WORRY THAT THIS COULD BE A  DETERRENT FOR SOME REALLY GREAT POTENTIAL PUBLIC  SERVANTS, AND DO WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE IT HARDER TO  FIND QUALITY CANDIDATES?

I DON'T THINK SO.

Gene: LET ME LET THE FOLKS KNOW WHAT REBECCA IS  GETTING AT HERE, BECAUSE I THINK SHE'S ON TO SOMETHING  INTERESTING.

THE NEW DISCLOSURE ACT  PROPOSED BY THE COMMISSION WOULD OUTLINE DETAILED  REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DISCLOSURE OF PERSONAL  ASSETS, DEBTS, SOURCES OF FAMILY INCOME OVER $600,  INCLUDING EARNINGS BY SPOUSES AND DEPENDENT  CHILDREN AND PROPERTY OWNERSHIP.

SERGE, I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION.

IF YOUR OLDEST KID HAD A GOOD MONTH WITH THEIR  POSHMARK AND THEY MADE 900 BUCKS, WHY IS THAT  SANTA FE'S BUSINESS?

Serge: WELL, THAT SEEMS  LIKE A FARFETCHED HYPOTHETICAL, BUT I'LL ALLOW  IT.

Gene: TIME-OUT,  TIME-OUT.

A POSHMARK OR A MERCARI  ACCOUNT MAKING 800 BUCKS IS FAR FROM FARFETCHED.

Serge: I MEANT AS IT APPLIES TO MY CHILDREN.

THEY WEAR HOODIES AT ALL TIMES.

Gene: GOTCHA.

Serge: BUT I THINK IT  IS, IT'S INTRUSIVE.

IT'S PROBABLY OVERKILL.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS SORT OF THE CLASSIC, YOU KNOW, LET'S  MAKE SURE WE'RE RESPONDING TO THE LAST THING THAT  HAPPENED.

SOMEONE DESCRIBED IT AS  SCANDAL FIRST, LAW SECOND.

AND THEN WE TRY TO FIX THAT  LAST THING THAT JUST HAPPENED, AND SORT OF AN  OVERCORRECTION, RIGHT, TO ALL THE STUFF THAT WE'VE  SEEN RECENTLY.

BUT, I MEAN, I WILL GO OFF  ON A SLIGHT TANGENT HERE.

YOU'VE HEARD ME COMPLAIN  BEFORE ABOUT OUR LEGISLATIVE SETUP HERE.

WHEN YOU HAVE AN UNPAID LEGISLATURE WHO HAVE TO HAVE  JOBS TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES, YOU'RE ASKING FOR SETUPS  THAT ARE GOING TO LEAD TO CONFLICTS, AND THAT IS PART  OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE DRIVING THINGS LIKE THESE  POSSIBLY OVERREACHING ETHICS RULES.

WHEN THEY'RE SITTING UP IN SANTA FE IN THE ROUNDHOUSE  THAT'S AWASH WITH LOBBYING MONEY, AND WE KNOW THAT  THEY'RE NOT GETTING PAID, THE PERCEPTION IS ALMOST  CERTAINLY GOING TO BE, WELL, WHO WOULDN'T BE TEMPTED TO  HAVE CONFLICTS AND WHATNOT.

SO I THINK THIS UNDERSCORES  THIS PROBLEM THAT I HAVE HAMMERED HOME REPEATEDLY,  THAT WE HAVE GOT TO GET A BETTER LEGISLATIVE SETUP.

AND IT'S NOT THAT OTHER LEGISLATURES DO NOT HAVE  ETHICAL SCANDALS.

OBVIOUSLY THOSE COME WITH  THE TERRITORY.

BUT WE HAVE A PARTICULAR  TYPE OF ISSUE HERE THAT WE ARE SETTING OURSELVES UP  FOR, AND TRYING TO MICROMANAGE THE FINANCES OF  SOMEONE'S FAMILY IS OUR RESPONSE TO THAT.

BUT THE REAL RESPONSE, I THINK, THE BETTER RESPONSE  IS TO STEP BACK AND SAY, OKAY, WAIT A SECOND, HOW DO  WE SET UP A SYSTEM THAT'S NOT GOING TO LEAD TO THESE  SORT OF BUILT-IN CONFLICTS.

Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

INEZ, WE'RE GOING TO GET AROUND HERE.

SERGE JUST MENTIONED ABOUT FULL OR PART-TIME  LEGISLATURES, ALL THAT KIND OF THING, BUT I'VE GOT TO GO  BACK TO MY EXAMPLE THAT REBECCA BROUGHT UP ABOUT  INTRUSIVENESS AND THIS $600 THRESHOLD.

WHERE DO THINGS LIKE THAT COME FROM?

ARE THEY ROOTED IN SOME KIND OF REALITY?

I MEAN, IS THIS THE PROBLEM WHEN YOU HAVE COMMITTEES  LOOKING AT HOW PEOPLE WORK?

BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU  SOMETHING.

MONEY COMES INTO FAMILIES THROUGH MANY ODD ROOTS, AND  TO BUILD A NARRATIVE ABOUT HOW YOUR FAMILY INCOME WORKS  THROUGH YOUR KIDS' STUFF, YOUR WIFE'S STUFF, WHATEVER,  I JUST CAN'T SEE PEOPLE REALLY GETTING WARM TO THAT.

I REALLY CAN'T.

THERE'S SOMETHING ALMOST  INTRUSIVE ABOUT IT, LAYING OUT YOUR FAMILY FINANCIAL  MAP AND HOW MONEY COMES IN FROM ALL THESE WEIRD  DIRECTIONS.

IS THIS GOING TO WORK IN  SANTA FE FOR PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN SANTA FE THAT HAVE  TO WORK UP THERE?

Inez: YOU KNOW, IT'S  INTRUSIVE, BUT YOU'RE CHOOSING TO RUN.

YOU'RE CHOOSING TO BE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, AND YOU'RE  CHOOSING TO BE MARRIED TO A LOBBYIST, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO  THEN IS GOING TO LOBBY YOU ON BILLS THAT YOU VOTE ON,  AND MOST OF THE LEGISLATORS DO NOT RECUSE THEMSELVES.

I MEAN, THERE'S A REASON THAT SOMETIMES YOU GO TOO  FAR IN WRITING A PROPOSAL, BECAUSE MAYBE THEY KNOW THE  KIDS AND THE $600 ARE GOING TO GET THROWN OFF, BUT WE  MIGHT GET TO KEEP FINDING OUT WHAT THE SPOUSES ARE  DOING.

BECAUSE THERE REALLY IS, I  THINK, A QUESTION ABOUT SPOUSAL INCOME THAT DOES  AFFECT HOW LEGISLATORS OPERATE AND HOW THEY VOTE.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SCANDALS WE'VE HAD --  Gene: LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

IS THAT NOT A REASONABLE PLACE TO START INSTEAD OF  THROWING THIS BLANKET NET OF $600 AND ASKING IF YOUR  GOOD-FOR-NOTHING BROTHER-IN-LAW FINALLY PAID  YOU THAT 1500 BUCKS FOR THAT TRAILER, THAT YOU'VE  SUDDENLY GOT TO REPORT THIS?

I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT  ACTUALLY SHOW?

Inez: YOU KNOW, I THINK  THEY MUST HAVE MORE THINKING.

I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GO ASK THEM WHAT THEY WERE  THINKING.

BUT THINK ABOUT THE  DIFFERENT LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE HAD KIDS WHO HAVE  WORKED AT THE LEGISLATURE WHO HAVE THEN INFLUENCED  THEIR DADS OR THEIR MOMS.

THERE'S PROBABLY SOMETHING  HERE THAT WE DON'T KNOW.

AND IT MAY BE OVERREACHING,  BUT WE'VE UNDERREACHED FOR SO MANY YEARS, MAYBE WE  SHOULD OVERREACH FOR A LITTLE BIT.

THIS IS -- I AGREE WITH SERGE, AND WE'VE WRITTEN  ABOUT IT IN OUR PAPER, WE NEED TO GO BEYOND A CITIZEN  LEGISLATURE.

WE NEED TO PAY PEOPLE FOR  DOING WORK.

WE NEED TO REMOVE THE  POTENTIAL FOR TEMPTATION AND CONFLICT.

AND WE NEED TO WATCH PEOPLE MORE.

I MEAN, WHO WAS WATCHING SHERYL WILLIAMS STAPLETON  OVER THOSE YEARS, WHETHER AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR AT  THE LEGISLATURE.

WE NEED TO DO BETTER.

AND MAYBE FOR A WHILE, LEGISLATORS ARE GOING TO  STAND NAKED BEFORE US AND ALL THEIR FINANCES TO GET  WHERE WE NEED TO GET.

Gene: SERGE,  ADDITIONALLY DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS COVER  MEMBERSHIP IN CORPORATIONS AND NONPROFIT GROUPS, GIFTS  OF $50 OR MORE FROM LOBBYISTS, AND WORK DONE BY  AN OFFICIAL OR THEIR SPOUSE INVOLVING PUBLIC AGENCIES.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S OKAY, I CAN SEE THAT.

BUT GIFTS OF $50?

I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE AN  ANSWER FROM OUT OF THE '80s.

AND I KNOW THIS IS THE WAY TO GO, THIS IS THE REASON WE  HAVE COMMITTEES, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, SO I'M NOT  SAYING THIS IS THE FINAL-FINAL THING.

BUT AGAIN, IS THIS GOING TO DO ANYTHING?

DISCLOSING MEMBERSHIP IN CORPORATIONS AND NONPROFIT  GROUPS, I JUST DON'T SEE THE TRAIL HERE.

Serge: I THINK SOME OF THIS IS OBVIOUSLY SYMBOLIC  AND MAYBE WILL SHAPE CERTAIN FOLKS' BEHAVIOR, OR THINK  ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT BE DOING TO INFORM.

THIS IS THE STANDARD THAT WE'RE TRYING TO HOLD YOU TO,  RATHER THAN WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND INVESTIGATE  EVERY SINGLE LITTLE ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE.

I'VE SEEN SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT THE MORE OF THESE RULES  THAT YOU GET, THE LESS TRUST PEOPLE HAVE IN GOVERNMENT,  BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, THERE MUST BE A LOT OF  SHADINESS GOING ON IF THEY HAVE TO LEGISLATE IT DOWN TO  THIS PARTICULAR LEVEL.

SO THAT'S A POSSIBLE RISK,  BUT I AM IN FAVOR OF WELL-CRAFTED AND THOUGHTFUL  RULES.

I THINK AS YOU'RE POINTING  OUT, WELL-CRAFTED AND THOUGHTFUL SOUNDS GREAT, BUT  YOU HAVE TO PUT A NUMBER ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND THE  SOURCE OF THAT.

$50 SEEMS LOW TO ME, BUT I  ACTUALLY DON'T GET THAT MANY GIFTS AT ALL, SO I DON'T  KNOW HOW TO VALUE THEM.

Gene: I HEAR THAT.

HEY, REBECCA, REAL QUICK, THE ETHICS COMMISSION IS  ALSO CALLING FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE LOBBYIST  REGULATION ACT.

NOW, THIS IS INTERESTING.

IT WANTS TO BAR FORMER STATEWIDE ELECTED OFFICIALS  FROM BEING PAID AS LOBBYISTS FOR TWO FULL YEARS AFTER  LEAVING OFFICE.

THIS IS NOT A NEW IDEA, EVEN  AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

WILL THAT HELP LIMIT SPECIAL  INTEREST CONTROL IN THE ROUNDHOUSE DOING IT THAT  WAY?

Rebecca: I THINK IT'S  SUCH A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM THAT NOTHING WILL LIMIT SPECIAL  INTEREST CONTROL.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S --  I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA, A GREAT THOUGHT.

I CERTAINLY HAVE SEEN MY SHARE OF COLLEAGUES WHO  TRANSITIONED IMMEDIATELY INTO LOBBYING.

AND I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A STEP, THERE'S A POINT WHERE  YOU WONDER, YOU KNOW, ARE WE GOING TO GO INTO CONTACT  TRACING WHERE ANYTIME A LAWMAKER AND A LOBBYIST HAVE  CROSSED PATHS IN THE GROCERY STORE AISLE, THAT SOMEONE IS  ALERTED THAT THEY'VE BEEN IN THE SAME PLACE AT THE SAME  TIME?

YOU KNOW, IT'S A TERRIBLE  SYSTEM.

IT IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM.

IT'S HORRIBLY FLAWED.

IT HAS TO BE FIXED.

BUT I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT TELLING  SOMEONE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO RETIRE FROM BEING AN ELECTED  OFFICIAL, THAT YOU CAN'T -- A JOB THAT WE HAVEN'T PAID  YOU FOR, BUT NOW YOU CAN'T GO INTO ANOTHER JOB WHERE  YOU COULD TAKE WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED -- WE WOULDN'T DO  THAT IN ANY OTHER CAREER PATH AND SAY, LIKE, YOU  CAN'T TAKE WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED IN THIS CAREER AND  THEN PARLAY IT INTO SOMETHING BETTER FOR  YOURSELF.

SO IT JUST FEELS LIKE THAT'S  OVERLY BURDENSOME.

Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

HEY GUYS, IN 2020, A REPORT BY NEW MEXICO ETHICS WATCH,  JUST TO MAKE REBECCA'S POINT HERE, FOUND THAT 34  EX-LEGISLATORS WORKED AS LOBBYISTS, AND THAT ANOTHER  SIX LOBBYISTS WERE SPOUSES OR RELATIVES OF LEGISLATORS.

INEZ, I THINK THAT SORT OF MAKES YOUR POINT YOU DID  MAKE ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MINUTES AGO, THAT WHEN YOU  LOOK IN THE NOOKS AND CRANNIES OF WHO IS DOING  WHAT, IT MIGHT LOOK A LITTLE BIT WORSE THAN WE ACTUALLY  REALIZE.

Inez: WE'RE JUST A SMALL  STATE, AND IF YOU'RE MARRIED TO SOMEBODY, IT'S LIKELY  THAT THEY'RE GOING TO AFFECT WHAT YOU DO, AND THAT WORKS  WHETHER YOU'RE AN EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR OR A LEGISLATOR.

I MEAN, I'VE GOTTEN UGLY POSTCARDS SAYING, YOU CAN'T  WRITE ABOUT NATIVE AMERICANS BECAUSE YOU'RE MARRIED TO  ONE.

AND I AM, SO IT'S ALL TRUE.

WE ALL HAVE CONFLICTS, BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS, I'M NOT  WRITING LAWS THAT WILL NECESSARILY ENRICH MYSELF OR  MY SPOUSE OR MY CHILD, AND LEGISLATORS POTENTIALLY CAN  BE, AND I THINK TAXPAYERS DESERVE TO KNOW THEIR  CONNECTIONS WITHOUT BEING OVERLY INTRUSIVE OR  BURDENSOME ON THESE WONDERFUL CITIZENS WHO ARE  GIVING UP THEIR TIME AND THEIR LIVELIHOODS TO WORK  FOR US.

Gene: GOOD STUFF THERE.

GOOD DISCUSSION, GUYS, ALL THE WAY AROUND.

I REALLY LIKE THIS.

AS ALWAYS, THIS WEEK BE SURE  TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE  TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER, OR  INSTAGRAM PAGES.

Gene:   LET ME THANK YOU AGAIN FOR JOINING US FOR  THIS INAUGURAL NEW MEXICO In FOCUS BROADCAST OF  2022.

QUICK REMINDER: IF YOU  MISSED OUR TOP TEN STORIES FOR 2021, YOU CAN FIND THEM  POSTED WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA.

NOW, HERE IN THE FIRST WEEK OF THE NEW YEAR, I HAVE A  NOT-SO-VAGUE SENSE OF DEJA VU, MEANING LAST JANUARY I  ACTUALLY TRIED TO FORESEE SOME THINGS FOR THE YEAR,  NONE OF WHICH EVEN REMOTELY CAME TO PASS.

AFTER WHAT WE ALL WITNESSED THAT ACTUALLY DID COME TO  PASS IN 2021, I'M NOT MAKING THAT SAME MISTAKE AGAIN.

NOW, LOOKING FORWARD, WHAT I  CAN PROMISE IS OUR CONTINUED COMMITMENT TO GIVING YOU THE  SAME IN-DEPTH COVERAGE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE DID IN  2021, DESPITE THE CHALLENGES.

DESPITE THOSE CHALLENGES, WE LEARNED A LOT LAST YEAR.

IT'S MADE US A BETTER OPERATION IN SOME KEY WAYS,  AND I'M EXCITED TO GET GOING AND FOR HAVING YOU ALONG.

THANKS FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND  ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT  WEEK In FOCUS.

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE  MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.