>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, THE OMICRON COVID VARIANT - HOW CONCERNED SHOULD YOU BE?

HOW NORTH CAROLINA SENATORS FARED ON AN NAACP-LED VOTING RIGHTS SCORECARD, AND TIME TO PLACE PRIORITY ON YOUR MENTAL HEALTH.

STAY WITH US.

♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

JUST AS WE ENTER THE HOLIDAY SEASON WITH MANY LOOKING FORWARD TO FESTIVE GATHERINGS HERE COMES ON THE CRIME, THE LATEST VARIANT OF THE COVID-19 VIRUS.

PRESIDENT BIDEN THIS WEEK ANNOUNCED IT IS NOT TIME FOR PANIC, BUT CAUTION IS IN ORDER HERE TO GIVE US MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE VIRUS I WANT TO WELCOME DOCTOR, JULIUS WILDER, A GASTROENTEROLOGIST AND ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT DUKE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE.

WELCOME DOCTOR, WHILE THEY'RE SO GOOD TO SEE YOU THANKS FOR COMING.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> REPORTS ARE THAT OMICRON VARIANT IS MORE TRANSMISSIBLE THAN THE DELTA VARIANT.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ALL OF US VACCINATED AND UNVACCINATED.

>> THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION AND I THINK THE KEY THING FOR EVERYONE TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT WHAT WE DO ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, EVEN IN THE SETTING OF THIS NEW VARIANT DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE.

IT IS STILL EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT WE WASH OUR HANDS, WEAR OUR MASK, AND IT'S STILL EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU GET VACCINATED AND YOUR BOOSTER AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.

IT IS CERTAINLY A CONCERN TO SEE THESE NEW VARIANTS COME UP, AND WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SORT OF THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THESE VARIANTS ARE ABLE TO, SO TO SPEAK, GET AROUND OUR VACCINES AND WE'RE STILL DOING RESEARCH TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT THAT BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT WE DO ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, IT'S STILL IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THE SAME TYPE OF PRECAUTIONS IN APPROACH TO OUR DAY-TO-DAY LIVES THAT WE'VE HAD TO DO FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS ALMOST NOW.

>> YEAH, IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME SO CONTINUE TO WEAR THOSE MASKS AND NOT CROWDED CONDITIONS WHILE HAND WASHING SANITIZER DISTANCING WHEN WHERE NECESSARY BUT WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE CURRENT VACCINES THAT ARE AVAILABLE AGAINST THIS NEW VARIANT.

>> SO WE ARE CURRENTLY DOING THE RESEARCH RIGHT NOW TO UNDERSTAND PRECISELY HOW WELL OUR VACCINE TO PROTECT US AGAINST THIS NEW VARIANT.

WHENEVER THESE NEW VARIANTS COME UP THEY ARE IMMEDIATELY BEGINNING TO DO ANIMAL STUDIES AND THEY ALSO LOOK AT INDIVIDUALS, HUMANS, THAT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO IT TO SEE HOW WELL THEY DO.

FRANKLY WE PROBABLY HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT LEVEL OF PROTECTION AGAINST OMICRON.

THE QUESTION IS GOING TO BE EXACTLY HOW WELL ARE WE PROTECTED AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY DOING RESEARCH ON THAT RIGHT NOW AND WE SHOULD GET MORE DEFINITIVE INFORMATION ON THAT HERE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID THEORETICALLY, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT AT SOME POINT IN TIME THERE MAY BE NEW VACCINES OR CHANGES MADE TO OUR VACCINES MOVING FORWARD AND THANKFULLY WITH THE NEW MRNA TECHNOLOGY IF WE DID NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE VACCINES WE COULD PROBABLY DO IT FAIRLY QUICKLY.

CERTAINLY MUCH QUICKER THAN WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT PROTECTION AND HOW SAFE PEOPLE CURRENTLY ARE WHO ALREADY GONE AHEAD AND STARTED THE VACCINATION PROCESS.

CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BOOSTERS AND IF YOU DON'T GET A BOOSTER DO YOU LOSE IMMUNITY, HOW DOES THAT WORK.

>> GREAT QUESTION.

SO YOU KNOW THE VACCINE ESSENTIALLY ALLOWS YOUR BODY TO CREATE ANTIBODIES THAT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM THE INFECTION.

AND WE HAVE FOUND THAT YOU ACQUIRE TWO VACCINES FOR MOST OF FOR THE TYPES OF VACCINES THAT ARE OUT THERE TO BE PROPERLY PROTECTED AGAINST THE VIRUS, IN OTHER WORDS, TO REACH A LEVEL OF ANTIBODIES THAT IF YOU WERE EXPOSED TO THE VIRUS, YOU WOULD NOT GET SICK, YOU MAY NOT EVEN AT ALL REALLY GET THE VIRUS.

>> I HATE TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WON'T THE VIRUS ITSELF.

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

SO THERE'S REALLY TWO SCENARIOS OF VACCINE STATE.

IDEALLY THEY PROTECT YOU FROM GETTING THE VIRUS AT ALL.

BUT THERE ARE ALWAYS SORT OF THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR THE VIRUS TO KIND OF GET INTO YOUR BODY AND IF IT DOES, IF YOU DO GET IT, YOU'RE JUST NOT GOING TO GET VERY SICK.

AND A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT IS IF YOU LOOK AT INDIVIDUALS IN HOSPITALS RIGHT NOW AND INDIVIDUALS OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO THAT HAVE DIED, 99%, OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT VACCINATED.

SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE VACCINATED RIGHT NOW?

IT MEANS THAT YOU ARE PROTECTED CERTAINLY AGAINST THE VARIANT THAT HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY DANGEROUS.

THE DELTA VARIANT.

RIGHT AND SO OMICRON IS NEW WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THE DELTA VARIANT IS STILL THE MAIN SORT OF CULPRIT THAT'S BEEN DRIVING COVID IN THE UNITED STATES IN THE WORLD FRANKLY.

AND SO THE VACCINE PROTECTS YOU FROM DELTA.

IN TERMS OF THE NEW VARIANT, THE VACCINE VERY LIKELY WILL PROTECT YOU TO A CERTAIN EXTENT FROM THE NEW VARIANT AS WELL, AND IT MAY BE FULLY PROTECTED WE'RE STILL DOING THE RESEARCH TO UNDERSTAND THAT RIGHT NOW.

BUT WHAT THAT SPEAKS TO THE IMPORTANCE OF IS VACCINATION.

AND SO IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED, IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO IT.

AND IF NECESSARY IF THE TIME IS CORRECT THEN YOU SHOULD UNDERGO YOUR PROPER BOOSTER SHOT AS WELL.

>> IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SO MANY QUESTIONS OUT THERE FOR TRYING TO FIND A WAY NOT TO HAVE TO GET THAT SHOT.

AND SO FAR WE KNOW THAT HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, 71% OF THE GENERAL POPULATION HAS RECEIVED ONE DOSE OF THE VACCINE, 54% HAVE BEEN FULLY VACCINATED AND THAT'S PRETTY LOW COMPARED TO THE NATION FOR BLACK PEOPLE THE RATE OF FULL VACCINATION IS DOWN AROUND 50% SO WHY ARE THOSE NUMBERS HIGHER YOU THINK IT IS THIS RATE OF VACCINATION MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY DOES.

IN THOSE PLACES WHERE WE HAVE SEEN LOWER UP TAKE OF VACCINATION, WE HAVE CERTAINLY SEEN HIGHER RATES OF ADVERSE OUTCOMES, HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS FROM COVID, AND IT'S PARTICULARLY BOTHERSOME TO SEE CERTAIN POPULATIONS, NOT VACCINATED ESPECIALLY, THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION BECAUSE FROM THE BEGINNING WE HAVE TO RECALL THIS DISEASE, THIS INFECTION WAS DISPROPORTIONALLY IMPACTING US FROM THE BEGINNING RESULTING IN MORE DEATHS AND HOSPITALIZATIONS IN THAT POPULATION, AND SO IT CERTAINLY IS A DOUBLE WHAMMY SO TO SPEAK BECAUSE IT HAS HAD A GREATER IMPACT ON US AND THE BEST TOOL WE HAVE TO PROTECT US FROM IT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN THE LEAST LIKELY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WHICH IS VACCINATION.

VACCINE HESITANCY IS STILL AN ISSUE AND WE'VE GOT TO BE MORE THOUGHTFUL AND CREATIVE IN THE WAY THAT WE ENGAGE THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, AND OTHER MARGINALIZED AND VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES TO ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO TESTING AS WELL AS VACCINATION FOR COVID.

>> WELL DOCTOR JULIUS WILDER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR CLEARING THINGS UP AND THE LASTING MESSAGE IS GO AHEAD AND PROTECT YOURSELF TRY TO GET THAT VACCINATION WASH YOUR HANDS, SOCIAL DISTANCE WEAR THE MASKS.

THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR BEING HERE AND FOR INFORMATION.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY.

>> IN NOVEMBER, A COALITION OF CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS LED BY THE NAACP RELEASED FOR THE FIRST TIME A SENATE SCORECARD, GRADING EACH SENATOR ON THEIR PERFORMANCE IN CONGRESS AS REGARDS VOTING RIGHTS.

IT CAME JUST ONE WEEK AFTER SENATORS BLOCKED THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

THAT VOTE HAS LEFT MANY CIVIL RIGHTS AND PRO-DEMOCRACY ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS SERIOUSLY CONCERNED FOR THE FUTURE OF DEMOCRACY AND REPRESENTATION IN OUR NATION.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT I'D LIKE TO WELCOME PROFESSOR OF LAW IRVING JOYNER OF NORTH CAROLINA CENTRAL UNIVERSITY AND MARY C. CURTIS, JOURNALIST WITH ROLL-CALL AND HOST OF THE EQUAL TIME PODCAST.

I'M SO EXCITED TO HAVE BOTH OF YOU WITH US.

PROFESSOR JOYNER LET ME OPEN WITH YOU.

WHAT HAVE WE SEEN TRANSPIRE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS ON THE EFFORT TO SECURE VOTING RIGHTS NATIONALLY?

>> WELL NATIONALLY, AND IN WASHINGTON, WE'RE AT A STALEMATE THE SENATE HAS FAILED TO MOVE FORWARD ON EITHER OF THE 2 BILLS THAT ARE PRESENTLY BEFORE THEM.

THE HOUSE HAS PASSED BOTH OF THEM, THE FREEDOM TO VOTE ACT, AND THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND BECAUSE OF THE FILIBUSTER ROUTE THAT EXISTS NOW IN THE U.S. SENATE, 50 DEMOCRATIC VOTES ARE NOT SUFFICIENT TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATION ON TO THE PRESIDENT'S DESK, AND THE FILIBUSTER HAS BECOME THE BIG ISSUE AND PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED THAT THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PUSH, USE THEIR POWER TO GET SOME POSITIVE RESPONSE FROM REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OR FROM DEMOCRATS TO CHANGE THE FILIBUSTER RULE.

>> SO IT REALLY DOES SEEM LIKE A STALEMATE AT THIS A MOMENT.

MARY YOU HAD A VERY HONEST CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE URBAN LEAGUE MARC MORIAL AS THE LEAGUE IS AMONG THE COALITION OF CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS THAT ISSUED THE SCORE CARD.

WHAT DID HE SHARE ABOUT WHY THE SCORE CARD WAS ISSUED AND WHAT EFFECT THEY EXPECT TO HAVE?

>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE THAT HERE ANY OF THESE OTHER CIVIL RIGHTS LEADERS BELIEVE THAT IT WILL HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE VOTES BECAUSE SO MANY OF THE SENATORS DO SEEM LOCKED IN, BUT YOU KNOW HE SAID THAT OTHER ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE LIKE THE NRA THEY DO ISSUE SCORE CARDS BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO EDUCATE VOTERS, EDUCATE CITIZENS ON WHERE THEIR LEADERS STAND ON THESE CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES, AND HE SAYS IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF WHAT'S AT STAKE.

HE SAID THIS DEMOCRACY AND THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

AND WITHOUT THE RIGHT TO VOTE, WE HAVE NO SEAT AT THE TABLE.

AND AS PROFESSOR JOYNER POINTED OUT WE HAVE THESE LAWS OR AROUND THE COUNTRY, THEY'RE ATTACKING NOT JUST RESTRICTIONS ON VOTING, BUT HOW THE VOTES ARE COUNTED WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT AND WE ALSO SEE RACIAL GERRYMANDERING AND PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING IN STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

TEXAS, OHIO AND RIGHT HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

WE GAINED A HOUSE SEAT BUT A LOT OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF BLACK, HISPANIC, ASIAN AMERICANS MOVING IN, BUT THE WAY THESE GERRYMANDERINGS ARE GOING ON IN THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS REPUBLICAN LED LEGISLATURES, THESE SEATS ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE MINORITY VOTERS RIGHTS.

IN FACT, THEY'RE GOING BACK IN NORTH CAROLINA TO OLD MAPS THAT THEY ARE PROPOSING THAT COURTS HAVE PREVIOUSLY THROWN OUT BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY WENT AFTER BLACK VOTERS WITH ALMOST SURGICAL PRECISION, SO EXPECT TO SEE SOME LAWSUITS.

REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING IT'S ABOUT ELECTION INTEGRITY.

BUT STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THERE REALLY IS NO SIGNIFICANT VOTER FRAUD.

AND IT'S KIND OF DISHEARTENING BECAUSE MANY OF THE SAME REPUBLICAN SENATORS HAVE VOTED IN THE PAST TO REAUTHORIZE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965 AND NOW IT'S BECOME SO PARTISAN, THEY FLIPPED THEIR POSITIONS.

>> SO KEY.

YOU'VE HIT ON SO MUCH IN THAT RESPONSE.

FIRST OF ALL TALKING ABOUT THE 29 IN 2019 THE LAWSUITS THAT WERE ONE WITH REGARD TO GERRYMANDERING BUT NOW RECENTLY PROFESSOR JOYNER HASN'T THERE WAS A AN EFFORT TO TRY TO COUNTER THE MAPS THAT WERE DRAWN BUT THAT WAS DEFEATED.

A JUDGE SAID NO WE'RE NOT GOING TO RULE ON THAT.

IN FAVOR OF DISALLOWING THESE MAPS.

CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT WHERE WE STAND WITH THE MAP DRAWING?

>> MOST RECENTLY, THE NORTH CAROLINA NAACP HAD FILED THE ENACTION IN THE STATE CODE TO COMPEL THE LEGISLATURE TO CONSIDER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND THE REQUIREMENT THAT THERE'LL BE SOME EQUITY IN THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS AND THE COURT HELD SINCE THE LEGISLATURE HAD MOVED FORWARD AND PASSED THEIR REDISTRICTING PLAN, THAT THIS ACTION WAS MOOT.

WE ARE APPEALING THAT DECISION NOW TO THE COURT OF APPEALS AND ULTIMATELY TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT, BUT AS LONG AS YOU ALLOW THIS KIND OF CAUCUS OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE HELL BENT ON MINIMIZING THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND LATINOS AND OTHER RACIAL MINORITIES TO VOTE BY DRAWING LINES AND THAT DISENFRANCHISE THE ABILITY OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS TO VOTE THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM.

AND JUST A SIDE POINT IS THAT WE GAINED A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN NORTH CAROLINA, BUT THE WAY THAT THE LINES ARE DRAWN, WE ARE LIKELY TO LOSE ONE OF THE 2 AFRICAN AMERICAN LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE BEEN ELECTED TO CONGRESS.

>> WELL, WE KNOW THAT GK BUTTERFIELD ALREADY SAID THAT HE'S NOT PLANNING TO RUN AGAIN, AND MAY THINK THAT THAT'S PARTIALLY DUE TO THE REDRAWING AND HOW THINGS HAVE BEEN SKEWED BECAUSE OF THE REDRAWING, AND AS WE MENTIONED EACH SENATOR RECEIVED A GRADE THE GRADE ON THIS SCORE CARD WAS BASED ON THEIR VOTES ON THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT THE JOHN R LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ADVANCEMENT ACT, THE FOR THE PEOPLE ACT, AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO END THE FILIBUSTER.

AND ON THIS SCORE CARD BOTH NORTH CAROLINA SENATORS RICHARD BURR AND THOM TILLIS EACH EARNED AN "F".

PROFESSOR JOYNER EACH OF THESE OPPORTUNITIES ARE SEEN AS EFFORTS TO NOT ONLY SECURE THE VOTE BUT ENSURE DEMOCRACY BUT BASED ON RECENT ACTIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY THERE'S BEEN SORT OF A MOVEMENT LIKE MARY SAID, FOR THIS ELECTION INTEGRITY.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

>> WELL ELECTION INTEGRITY AS IT IS PRACTICED IN THE VARIOUS STATES IS DESIGNED TO MINIMIZE THE OPPORTUNITY AND TO THWART EFFORTS BY AFRICAN AMERICANS AND PEOPLE OF COLOR TO INCREASE THEIR POLITICAL POWER WITHIN THE PROCESS.

ON THE OTHER HAND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO VOTE ACT AND THE JOHN LEWIS ADVANCEMENT, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE AND TO EXPAND OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE AND THAT THOSE RIGHTS WILL BE PROTECTED AND HONORED AT THE STATE LEVEL AND AS MARY SAID THAT THE VOTES ARE COUNTED AT THE END OF THE DAY.

AND THIS IS A DELIBERATE PLOY TO TAKE AWAY WITH A CATCHY TITLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE THAT WE HAVE FOUGHT FOR FOR SO MANY DECADES IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> WELL PEOPLE CERTAINLY NEED TO BE PAYING ATTENTION.

WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT, BUT MARY, WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THAT SCORE CARD AND THE INFORMATION THAT'S ONLINE I ACTUALLY WAS ENCOURAGED BECAUSE IT'S SO THOROUGH AND IT PROVIDES SOME ACTION STEPS, RESOURCES AND TOOLS WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU THINK THAT THIS SCORE CARD WILL MAKE?

>> WELL AS MARC MORIAL SAID IT EDUCATES THE VOTERS AND SPURS THEM TO ACTION BECAUSE OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY THEY HAVE TO LOOK TO THE VOTERS AND WE SEE FOLKS LIKE NOW WE HAVE STACEY ABRAMS IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AGAIN AND SHE HAS WORKED WITH HER ORGANIZATIONS TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE REGISTERED TO TRY TO GET THEM ACTIVE.

AND AS MARC MORIAL POINTED OUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAS BEEN THE CONSCIENCE OF THE COUNTRY NOT JUST FOR MINORITIES, BUT TO MAKE THE COUNTRY LIVE UP TO ITS IDEALS AND HE JUST EMPHASIZED WHAT WAS AT STAKE AND HARKEN BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6 WHERE WE SAW AN EFFORT TO HAVE A COUP, A TAKEOVER OF THE GOVERNMENT AND HE JUST WANTS TO WITH THE SCORE CARD BUT ALSO WITH INFORMATION THAT'S COMING OUT NOW, TO TELL VOTERS HOW CLOSE WE WERE HOW CLOSE WE CAME AND DEMOCRACY IS AT STAKE AND WHEN HE SAYS HE'S WORRIED, HE'S SEEN A LOT.

AND I KNOW MY OWN ELDER SIBLINGS, I FEEL THE STUDENTS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WHO WERE MARCHING WITH THE SAME RIGHTS THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL FIGHTING FOR TODAY.

AND SO I DO THINK RIGHT NOW IT IS TRYING TO BE A WAKE-UP CALL TO VOTERS TO THEIR CONSCIENCE AND TO SEE THAT YOU KNOW YOU DO BRING UP THE FILIBUSTER AS PROFESSOR JOYNER DID AND WE SAW REPUBLICANS AND MITCH MCCONNELL GET RID OF THAT THRESHOLD PUT JUSTICES ON THE SUPREME COURT AND MANY PEOPLE AND ACTIVISTS AND OTHERS ARE SAYING, "ISN'T THE VOTE WORTH IT TO MAKE SOME ACCOMMODATION FOR THIS FILIBUSTER?"

EVEN FOLKS LIKE CONGRESSMAN AND MAJORITY WHIP JIM CLYBURN OF SOUTH CAROLINA, SAYING YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE THE VOTE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING.

>> ABSOLUTELY WELL I AGREE WITH YOU 100% AND THE VOTE IS CRITICAL TO OUR DEMOCRACY AND THE SCORE CARD IS VERY INFORMATIVE.

PEOPLE SHOULD CHECK IT OUT AS WELL IS YOUR EQUAL TIME PODCAST MARY C. CURTIS PROFESSOR IRVING JOYNER THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND INSIGHTS.

>> THANK YOU >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH OUR WORLD HEALTH AND OUR NATIONAL POLITICS ARE HEAVY ENOUGH.

BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT JUST A WEEK AGO ON BLACK FRIDAY THERE WAS A SHOOTING AT THE POPULAR STREETS OF SOUTHPOINT SHOPPING MALL IN DURHAM THAT INJURED 3 PEOPLE-AND NOW, JUST A FEW DAYS AGO OUR HEARTS FELL ONCE AGAIN AS AN ARMED TEENAGER OPENED FIRE INSIDE A HIGH SCHOOL IN MICHIGAN, KILLING 4 STUDENTS.

OUR SYMPATHIES GO OUT TO ALL OF THOSE INJURED AND THOSE LEFT TO MOURN.

WE WANTED TO SPEND A FEW MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF FINDING PEACE, JOY AND MENTAL BALANCE THIS HOLIDAY SEASON.

I WANT TO WELCOME JASON PHILLIPS "“THE CONFIDENCE THERAPIST"”.

HE'S A LIFE COACH, THERAPIST, A LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER, AND UNABASHED COUNSELOR ON INSTAGRAM!

I LOVE SEEING INSTAGRAM POSTS SO ENCOURAGING AND SO TRUTHFUL.

YOU KNOW JASON TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN MENTAL HEALTH IS SO IMPORTANT.

BUT IT'S PROBABLY THE LAST THING ON THE MINDS OF A LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY BLACK MEN.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ARE THE TOP 3 MOST COMMON AND DANGEROUS EXCUSES FOR NOT SEEING A THERAPIST.

>> YEAH, WELL FIRST THANK YOU DEB FOR HAVING ME, AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE ARE A LOT OF EXCUSES THAT US AS BLACK MEN WE MAKE IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER, I WOULD SAY THE FIRST ONE IS THAT WE USE THE GYM AS OUR THERAPY.

SO WE SAY HEY I DON'T NEED TO SEE A THERAPIST, I'M JUST GOING TO GO TO THE GYM.

I'LL PUMP IT OUT, WORK IT OUT, BUT THE GYM DOES NOT REPLACE A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW THE WEIGHTS DON'T TALK BACK.

SO YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO VALIDATION THERE.

THE SECOND EXCUSE IS THAT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH ME.

I'M NOT CRAZY.

SO WHEN WE THINK OKAY TO SOMETHING HAS TO BE WRONG WITH US THAT I'M CRAZY, I MEAN THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE OF MENTAL ILLNESS DID A SURVEY AND THEY REPORTED THAT OVER 64% OF AFRICAN AMERICANS FELT THAT THEY HAD TO SEEK OUT MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH THEM AND THEY WERE WEAK.

>> THAT'S SO KEY, THE WHOLE IDEA OF SOMETHING BEING WRONG WITH YOU WHAT'S A BETTER LANGUAGE FOR THAT?

>> BETTER LANGUAGE WOULD BE, I NEED MENTAL HEALTH CHECK INS AND CHECKUPS.

SO THE SAME WAY WE GO TO OUR DOCTOR WE SHOULD ANNUALLY OR BI- ANNUALLY, WE SHOULD TALK TO A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL, BECAUSE AS WE GET OLDER THINGS HAPPEN TO US AND YOU CAN'T BE AN OLDER PERSON OR GO INTO OUR EARLY OR LATER YEARS, AND STILL BE FINE TUNED WITHOUT HAVING A MENTAL HEALTH CHECKUP.

SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT IT AND TAKE SOME OF THE STIGMA AWAY FROM IT.

>> AND I THINK I CERTAINLY KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE "NOTHING WRONG WITH ME" CATEGORY.

WHAT'S ANOTHER DANGEROUS KIND OF EXCUSE FOR NOT GOING TO GET THAT PROFESSIONAL HELP?

>> A HUGE ONE IS THAT 'I'LL JUST PRAY ABOUT IT.'

>> YEAH, THAT'S A BIG -- >> TURN IT OVER TO GOD, AND YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM SPIRITUALITY OR GOD, OR INCENSE OR ANYTHING ELSE YOU GOTTA DO, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT -- YOU KNOW WHAT SHOULD YOU BE EXPECTING FROM THAT THERAPIST?

>> WELL THE THERAPIST IS GOING TO PROVIDE YOU WITH EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, ATTENTIVE LISTENING, SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE LISTENING TO WHAT YOU SAY, AND ALSO VALIDATION WITH TOOLS.

SO I REMEMBER VIVIDLY A FRIEND OF MINE WAS GOING THROUGH A VERY TOUGH TIME AS SHE PUT ON FACEBOOK THAT SHE WAS HAVING THOUGHTS OF HURTING HERSELF.

AND 98% OF THE COMMENTS SAID, 'GIRL JUST PRAY ABOUT IT.

JUST PRAY.

TALK TO GOD.'

AND I'M THINKING WHAT IF SHE'S ALREADY BEEN TALKING TO GOD, NOW HOW DOES SHE FEEL?

AM I NOT WORTHY?

IS GOT NOT LISTENING?

IT SENDS A VERY BAD MESSAGE WHEN WE JUST SAY JUST PRAY IT AWAY.

>> YEAH, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOU KNOW THOSE WHO MIGHT BE THINKING ABOUT GETTING A THERAPIST HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO FIND SOMEONE WHO SHARES YOUR RACIAL AND OR SEXUAL IDENTITY.

>> IT CAN BE VERY IMPORTANT.

SO I REMEMBER WORKING WITH A GENTLEMAN, HE WAS A YOUNG BLACK MALE AND WHEN I PULLED UP FROM THE LOBBY, HE SAID, 'OH YOU MY THERAPIST?

WE ABOUT TO BE LIT!'

I MEAN HE WAS SO EXCITED.

THIS IS BEFORE COVID I COULD SEE HIS FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND EVERYTHING.

SO ONE I SAY 2 THINGS: BE COMFORTABLE WITH WHO YOU'RE WORKING WITH.

AND THAT MEANS AS THE CLIENT, I HAD TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH MY CLINICIAN AND AS A CLINICIAN I HAVE TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH MY CLINICIAN, BUT THEN ALSO IN ADDITION TO COMFORTABILITY WE NEED CULTURAL COMPETENCE.

SO JUST BECAUSE I'M COMFORTABLE I ALSO HAVE TO BE COMPETENT TOO.

SO MEANING I NEED TO KNOW WHAT MY CLIENTS ARE GOING THROUGH, AND IF I NEED TO EDUCATE MYSELF ASK THE QUESTIONS.

SO I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU HAVE TO SEE A BLACK THERAPIST IF YOU'RE A BLACK PERSON, BUT MAKE SURE THE PERSON YOU'RE SEEING IS COMFORTABLE AND MAKE SURE THAT COMPETENT TO WORK WITH YOU.

>> SUCH EXCELLENT ADVICE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT SKIN COLOR, BUT SOMEBODY WHO UNDERSTANDS THE IDENTITY AND CAN COMMUNICATE MAYBE HAS SOME OF THOSE SHARED EXPERIENCES, OR IS WELL AWARE OF SOME OF THOSE SHARED EXPERIENCES, IT'S HOLIDAY TIME, BUSY TIME.

WHAT DOES DEDICATED QUALITY TIME LOOK LIKE FOR TRUE SELF CARE CAN SOMETIMES LIKE LOOK I'M GONNA SIT IN MY CAR FOR 5 MINUTES BEHIND THE DRIVING WHEEL AND DO MY PRAYER AND I'M GOOD, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS TRUE SELF CARE LOOK LIKE?

>> SELF CARE, LET ME TELL YOU WHAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE FIRST.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A VACATION.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE -- BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS JUST GO TO MIAMI OR JAMAICA SELF CARE LOOKS LIKE SETTING HEALTHY BOUNDARIES, MEANING DURING THIS TIME OF THE YEAR YOU GETTING PULLED IN SO MANY DIRECTIONS, SO SELF CARE SAYING, 'HEY, 'I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THIS OR I NEED TO RESERVE MY 'MENTAL ENERGY AND I CAN SHOW UP BEFORE A LIMITED TIME ONLY', AND BEING UNAPOLOGETIC ABOUT THAT.

AND IN ADDITION TO THAT SETTING BOUNDARIES, SELF-CARE LOOKS LIKE ACKNOWLEDGING HOW YOU FEEL.

SOME MANY TIMES WE GLOSS OVER OUR FEELINGS WE SUPPRESS IT.

WE DON'T REALLY WANT TO LEAN IN BECAUSE WE'RE AFRAID OF THAT, AND AROUND THIS TIME MORE THAN EVER WITH EVERYTHING GOING IN THE NEWS, LOVED ONES WE COULD BE MISSING BECAUSE OF THE HOLIDAY TIME, LEAN INTO THOSE FEELINGS.

JOURNAL, TALK ABOUT IT, AND REACH OUT TO YOUR SUPPORT SYSTEM.

>> THAT SUPPORT SYSTEM IS IMPORTANT BUT IT DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF A LICENSED THERAPIST AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IS IT THAT THE THERAPIST CAN DO THAT YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR CLOSEST CONFIDANTS CAN'T AND WON'T.

>> SO ONE, THERE'S A DUAL RELATIONSHIP IF YOU TRY TO USE YOUR FRIEND AS YOUR THERAPIST, SO MEANING IF YOU TALK TO YOUR FRIEND MAYBE YOUR FRIEND GIVES YOU GREAT ADVICE.

BUT NOW YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A ROUGH PATCH AND YOU DON'T WANT YOUR FRIEND KNOW ABOUT IT.

THE THERAPIST, YOU CAN TALK TO THE THERAPIST, THE THERAPIST DOESN'T KNOW YOU OUTSIDE OF THAT THERAPUTIC RELATIONSHIP, SO NOW YOU REALLY DO HAVE A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN PUT IT ALL OUT THERE AND NOT FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING TO COME UP OR IF YOU GO BACK INTO A BAD RELATIONSHIP THE THERAPIST IS NOT GOING TO JUDGE YOU WHERE YOUR FRIEND MAY SAY, 'GIRL YOU DOING THAT AGAIN?

I THOUGHT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THAT?'

>> THAT'S TRUE.

AND THINGS LIKE THAT CAN COME BACK.

YOU SHARE WITH A FAMILY MEMBER, AND THEY'LL NEVER FORGET IT.

>> RIGHT?

RIGHT?

>> WELL I WISH WE HAD SOME MORE TIME TO TALK WITH YOU BUT JASON PHILLIPS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE AND I HOPE THAT EVERYBODY WILL TAKE THAT TIME FOR SOME SELF CARE THIS HOLIDAY SEASON.

>> THANK YOU DEB FOR HAVING ME.

>> I WANT TO THANK TODAY'S GUESTS.

WE INVITE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE HASHTAG BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR FULL EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/ BLACKISSUESFORM, OR LISTEN AT ANY TIME ON APPLE I TUNES, SPOTIFY OR GOOGLE PODCAST.

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