- If you're looking for a woman in Wyoming who's been both the Attorney General and a member of the State Supreme Court, you won't have to look far.

There's only been one.

Well meet Bridget Hill.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

This is Wyoming Chronicle.

(bright music) We're here today with Wyoming Attorney General Bridget Hill.

Thanks for hosting us here at the State Capitol on an afternoon in May.

I mentioned that because you've been appointed to a vacancy on the Wyoming Supreme Court, but you're not quite there yet.

You're in the last week or so of your job as we sit here today as Attorney General.

And by the time this show airs, which won't be until the fall, you'll be on the court.

So I can't ask you, so how's it been being on the court these first couple of months?

So maybe I'll ask you, how's it going the last couple of months as Attorney General?

What's involved in the transition that is taking place?

- The last few months of being the Attorney General have been great because I actually love the job and so the job has continued.

I get to work with a lot of really great attorneys in my office, and I've had time to spend with them and talk about the transition.

It's not going to be complicated.

The work will continue on with the attorneys I have on the cases I have assigned to them.

They will substitute out my name and substitute in the new Attorney General.

- When did that happen?

How long have you been Attorney General?

- I have been Attorney General since March of 2019.

Now, the governor named me earlier.

He announced my name at the end of December 2018.

And then by Wyoming statute, the previous Attorney General holds over through the legislative session.

- I see.

- And the new Attorney General is known as the special assistant to the Attorney General while the legislative session is going on.

And then once that legislative session adjourns, you become the new Attorney General.

- Because the Attorney General has dealings with the legislature, what is that interaction like typically?

- Well, typically, during the legislative session, the AG does have some additional duties.

Primarily, those responsibilities are again to the governor.

But because the AG has familiarity with the law and all of the Wyoming statutes, we are called on occasionally to help out the legislature.

But we really like to keep those roles separated so we don't run into conflicts.

And so during that time, the legislative service office attorneys are advising the legislature, and our duties are to the governor.

- The attorney general's part of the executive branch.

Something that I've heard talked about at the national level and sometimes in other states about where a governor will, or, in some cases, the president, refer sometimes to the Attorney General almost as his or her personal attorney.

Are you Governor Gordon's lawyer?

- (laughs) I am not.

- I didn't think so.

- Not in those terms.

Not his personal attorney.

As you know, he would have a personal attorney for his personal affairs, obviously, unrelated to his office.

He also has general counsel within his office that advises him on things unrelated to the state of Wyoming, which is what more my role is.

I advise him as an elected official and as the chief executive of the state of Wyoming.

And so when he wants legal advice more along the policy lines and something they should be doing internally within their own office, that's what his general counsel is for.

their internal contracts that they look at.

But when it comes to being an official, an elected official of the state of Wyoming and having someone appear for you in court, that's the attorney general.

- You talked about advising the governor as an elected official.

In some states, the Attorney General is an elected office.

I mean, a famous state attorney general in the news recently was Kamala Harris, who was elected twice, I believe, as the Attorney General of California.

Partisan-elected office.

It seems to me that would complicate the office so much more than it would in your case where you are an appointed official, appointed by the governor.

But you're not his running mates, you're not his partisan operative in that way.

And you don't have to involve yourself, I believe, I hope, as much in partisan style politics as, say, she probably did.

- I think that's exactly correct.

Obviously, because I am an appointed AG, I'm partial to the concept of an appointed AG.

And I believe there are benefits to it.

Some people believe there are benefits to the elected AG.

The vast majority of the nation has an elected AG.

I believe there's only seven states- - No kidding.

- That are appointed.

So the vast majority is elected.

But I've been able to see the difference in those two systems.

Sometimes, you have states where you have an elected governor and an elected AG who are not of the same party.

- Yeah.

- And so their views on the policies for the state that they're in are not always aligned.

Whereas here, because we have one chief executive officer, and that is the governor and he's appointed me, we can have a unified policy.

That said, I agree with your assessment that the Attorney General in Wyoming has often stayed out of politics.

And I've strived really hard to do that.

In fact, and I don't think he would mind me telling this, when the governor asked me to be the Attorney General, because I've told people this before, he said two things.

One, he's policy and I'm the law, which is a good idea because- - Those are two different things.

- Those are two very different things.

He would be policy, I would be the law.

And that's the deal we struck.

The other was, and I just respect him so much for this, was he said, "Promise me that you will always tell me the truth under the law, even if you believe I don't want to hear it."

(laughs) I said, "Oh, be careful.

If I promise to do that, I will in fact do it."

And he said, "That is what I want."

And that is what I have always done.

- And it has come up.

- You are correct, it has come up.

He wanted to separate those roles and make sure that politics and political desires were not driving our assessment of the law.

- You mentioned that sometimes your job or job of one of your staff attorneys is to go to court.

You're about to join the Wyoming Supreme Court.

I wanna get into that a little bit more.

Have you argued cases personally before the Wyoming Supreme Court?

- I have.

- You have?

- But those cases would've been prior to when I was the actual attorney general.

- I see.

- So typically, the Attorney General does not send herself to court.

You assign other attorneys in your office to handle various matters, and that's primarily a function of having to look at the big picture and not having as much time as you want to focus on every single detail of every single case.

But I did argue, when I was in the Attorney General's office, prior to my time being the Attorney General, and I appeared over there a couple of times.

- What was that like for you?

What do you remember about that?

- I remember, the first case I had, I remember being quite nervous, since it was my first case.

But I also remember liking it tremendously, because in all the preparation, when you're nervous, for me anyway, I over prepare.

And so all of the preparation that made me know that case inside and out, front to back, and all the loss surrounding it, because I was concerned about what they might ask me that wasn't in my brief.

- You didn't wanna be stumped by the Supreme Court.

- Exactly, I didn't want to have to say the classic phrase, "I don't have an answer to that question, but I could submit additional briefing if the court needs it."

I did not want to have to say that.

And in doing that, became quite familiar with the law of the case that I was going to present.

- How did it come out?

- So I enjoyed that.

We won, we won.

And we also, yeah, we won on the times I've been over there, so it was great.

- You've had other jobs before that, before the Attorney General's office.

You've had some prominent positions in state government before this one you're about to get.

What did you do before the AG's office?

- Well, right before I was the Attorney General, I was the director of the Office of State Lands and Investments.

Governor Meade appointed me to that position, which I enjoyed tremendously.

- I'm always interested in talking to people about what leads them to decide that they want to pursue these so-called higher position.

What has been your motivation in that way?

- Well, it was a couple.

When I first got out of law school, I did clerk over at the Wyoming Supreme Court.

- Did you do that for a particular justice the way they do in the U.S.

Supreme Court?

- I did originally.

The justice that I originally started clerking for was Justice Larry Lehman, who was from Carbon County.

He was a district court judge there in Carbon County, which is my home county.

Our original deal was for two years that I would clerk for him.

One year in, he asked me if I would stay until he retired, which at that time, he estimated to be three to five years.

And I told him that I could.

Unfortunately, Justice Lehman passed away while I was his clerk.

And so for a short time while I was getting myself sorted out with another job, I clerked also for Justice Golden for six months before I started in the Attorney General's office as a brand new lawyer, it felt like.

And so I actually ended up clerking for two.

- So you got an absolute, not just firsthand look at the operations of the court, but a behind the scenes look as well.

And it appealed to you.

- It did.

I enjoyed the work immensely.

You get to know so many different aspects of the law.

You have time to look at the law and understand all the ramifications of your interpretation of the law.

And I truly enjoyed it.

You've got to see a vast array of legal topics that affect the citizens of the state of Wyoming.

And so I loved the work, I loved the people I got to work with, and at that time, as I was leaving, someone suggested to me that one day, I should apply to be back at that court.

And I promised them that I would.

- Really?

- Yes.

- Now, only you know the answer to this question, but I'll ask it anyway.

Had it occurred to you before then, or was it more on along the lines of, "Well, I think I could do this," or, "Wouldn't it be great to do this," or, "I wanna do this one day."

What do you remember?

- I don't remember thinking, "I want to sit on this court" specifically.

I remember thinking that I love the work of this court.

And at that time, when you're fresh out of law school and having the chance to work with both Justice Lehman and Justice Golden and who were great, they actually both had very different approaches to the law.

And I loved that I got to see that.

But were both great in their own right for their approaches to the law.

But Justice Golden's approach was very scholarly in nature.

And so, whereas Justice Lehman's was fueled by his love of people and his love of helping people.

In my assessment, Justice Goldens was fueled by a scholarly love of the law.

And so watching that, and he has a brilliant mind.

He really was and is a legal scholar.

I remember, I think the reason it didn't really occur to me that I should sit on this court is he was so brilliant and you're a brand new attorney and you think, "Well, I will never be that brilliant" maybe is what I was thinking.

So it never occurred to me at that time until somebody said, "You should apply to be on this court.

Years from now, you would do a great job."

- I just happened to be reading a biography of Sandra Day O'Connor, who was the first woman in the U.S.

Supreme Court.

- Yeah.

- Appointed around 1981 or something.

And the very thing you just said comes up in that book.

She was corresponding with Antonin Scalia, and she had been a state legislator and a state court judge in Arizona.

But one of the criticisms she faced from him was, "You are a politician.

You just think about the practicalities.

And he used the word "conveniences" I think to kind of dig her a little bit.

"And I love the law."

But her point was, "Good thing we're both here then."

- Correct.

- Because it'll make the court better.

- I agree.

I think that's one of the beauties of an appellate court that has multiple people on it.

You get this great mosaic of ideas and backgrounds and motivations that lead to what I think is a better interpretation of the law.

I say this all the time, reasonable people can disagree about the law, and they do on almost a daily basis.

And it's those disagreements, reasonable disagreements, that I believe bring you to a better place in the law.

The same with different viewpoints that bring you to a better place in the law.

- The vacancy occurs.

And they're vacancies because the Supreme Court in Wyoming is limited by age.

- Correct.

- And there would've been other vacancies.

- Correct.

- Why now for you?

- For me, these jobs only come open at certain times and with a certain level of experience.

I truly believe being the Attorney General of the state of Wyoming prepared me significantly to sit on that court.

A vast amount of the cases that appear in front of that court are from this office.

- I see.

- The wide variety, it reminded me a lot of the court, but the wide variety of topics that the Attorney General's office handles on a daily basis gives you a great background for the wide variety of topics you will see over there.

- When the vacancy comes up, you have to notify the governor, the governor's office that you're interested, right?

- I did.

I don't want to ever surprise the governor.

And so I did in fact tell the governor that I would apply.

As you know, the process is to apply with the judicial nominating commission.

And so I did inform him that I would apply and then see where it went from there.

- It comes down to three finalists, is that- - Yeah.

(indistinct) The judicial nominating commission, however many applications they get, and they might decide to interview some of those applicants.

They then send three names to the governor to have him choose from the list of three.

And I happen to make it.

- Are you the first woman who's ever had both the AG's job and soon the Supreme Court seat?

- I believe I am, because I am only the second woman attorney general in the state of Wyoming.

The first woman of course being Gay Woodhouse.

And Gay Woodhouse does not sit on that court.

- A lot for a kid from, where'd you say?

- I'm from Saratoga.

- Saratoga.

- Yeah.

- People are familiar with Wyoming know Saratoga's one of Wyoming's really nice little towns.

What was your family life there?

- I loved Saratoga and still love Saratoga.

My family had a ranch outside of town, and my parents are still over there.

When I lived in Saratoga, the population sign said 1,969.

So it was very small, a town of less than 2,000 people.

But what I loved about it, and there's varying ideas about whether a small town's a good idea or whether people don't love a small town, 'cause it comes with its own set of issues.

I loved it, and part of the reason I think I truly loved it was the great sense of community that comes from a small town and the great support that you got from the community outside of your family.

I remember, when we were in high school sports and all of those things, the whole community came out to support the school.

And you felt that from everybody, even if they didn't have children participating in the activity.

That's the beauty of a small town.

- So you played?

- I did, volleyball and basketball.

- Well, where did the spark of the law enter into that and when?

- So it's kind of a funny story.

I took a business law class in high school and I enjoyed it, but I don't remember thinking, "Oh, I should be a lawyer."

In fact, when I went to the University of Wyoming, I went to the business college, and my degree is in accounting.

And I got about to my junior year and realized I had no desire to be an accountant.

But in that course of study, you have to take several business law classes.

And I found that I very much enjoyed those.

And so the idea sparked there that I would like to go to law school.

- So now, a new job coming up.

- Yeah.

- Everyone watching has experience with starting a new job.

Is it the kind of job where you can say, "I'm excited about it?"

- I think it is.

- Yeah.

- I think it is.

Based on what you like, what you're excited to do.

As I mentioned already, I love the law, as it turns out.

I didn't know growing up that that's something I would say.

But I love the law, and that court in particular gets a great chance to really immerse itself in the law.

And so I'm excited to do that.

- Wyoming, the equality state by motto.

Some people say, "Well, we haven't really done all that well with the equality state since Governor Ross," whose picture's up here behind us.

100 years ago this year is when she took office.

But three of the five Supreme Court members are women, and that's gonna continue with your arrival.

How big a deal is that in your opinion?

- I don't know if I would say I think it's a big deal per se, but I love to see it.

What I want is I think what every Wyoming citizen wants, which is the best people willing to do the job sitting on that court.

And I think if those people are women, fabulous.

If those people happen to be men, also great.

But let's choose the best people.

I do like that the fact that there are three women on there gives younger women in the state the ability to see that.

So I like the optics of it too.

There's all those studies out there about it, and they talk about it a little more in terms of the legislature where I've heard it talked about, that young girls don't see themselves represented in that body, and so they don't automatically see that that's something that they can aspire to.

And so I like the optics of that, knowing that now, little girls can see that and know that that's something that they can aspire to.

But what I really like is exactly what I said, that whatever your gender may be, that hopefully, we've selected people that are eager to do the job and will do the best job and are really excellently qualified to do the job.

- Well, but there could be another little kid in Saratoga on her horse who sees you there.

- Correct.

- And thinks, "Hmm, look at that."

- Correct.

That's a possibility for me.

- Possibilities.

- And I like the notion that I'm a small town Wyoming girl, and maybe now some other small town Wyoming girl thinks that's a possibility.

I love that you mentioned Sandra Day O'Connor, actually, if I can say, because- - Ranch kids.

- She was a ranch girl from Arizona.

She talked a little bit about that too, that she didn't know that that was a possibility for her.

She believed, you know, I'm some little ranch girl from Arizona, and then now you're sitting on the United States Supreme Court letting other little ranch girls know that that's a possibility.

- You're of an age, without getting into birth certificates, where you could serve on the court for a long time if you wanted to.

Would that be your aspiration?

- I would like to take it as it comes.

- Okay.

It's a deal.

- And decide as the time goes along.

I'm looking forward to it so much that I can see myself wanting to do it until the Constitution says I can't.

But I'd like to take that as it comes.

But you're right also, and as long as the Wyoming citizens would have me do it, because you do have to stand for retention.

- I just have a feeling that's not gonna be a problem for you.

But I hope you get the career, this next great career step as another good one for you, as the previous ones seem to have been.

I congratulate you on your path through Wyoming.

It's impressive, and it's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today.

Bridget Hill, Attorney General of the State of Wyoming, soon to be Associate Justice of the Wyoming Supreme Court.

Thanks for your time on Wyoming Chronicle.

- Thank you.

Thank you for the interest.

I appreciate it very much.

- [Steve] My pleasure, thanks.

Raise your right hand and repeat I, Bridgette Hill, I Bridgette H having been duly appointed, having been duly appointed Wyom Supreme Court Justice, Wyoming Supreme Cour Justice, do solemnly swear or af Do solemnly swea that I will support, obey, and d That I will support, obey, and d the Constitution of the United the Constitution of the United S and the Constitution of the State of Wyoming and the Constitution of the State of Wyoming.

Congratulations.