- Being the mayor of Rhode Island's largest city is a demanding job.

Providence has a lot going for it, but the city remains bedeviled by a lackluster tax base.

Other longstanding challenges include underperforming schools and an underfunded pension system.

The man responsible for tackling these issues is Providence Mayor Brett Smiley, a veteran of state and city government.

After first winning election in 2022, he's gearing up to seek reelection next year.

- Brett Smiley, the mayor.

Who are you?

- Smiley remains the favorite, although he faces a challenge from State Representative David Morales, a young progressive hoping to channel the insurgent energy wielded by Zohran Mamdani in New York City.

So does Smiley have bold ideas to meet the moment?

What does he consider the way forward for Democrats during the Trump era, and how much progress can his back-to-basics approach deliver on Providence's most nettlesome issues?

I'm Ian Donnis, and that's just some of what we talked about in this in-depth conversation.

(light electronic music) The Mayor of Providence, Brett Smiley, welcome to "One on One."

- Happy to be here.

- We're gonna talk about a lot of Providence stuff, but I want to start a couple of hundred miles away in New York City with Zohran Mamdani's run for the mayor of New York.

He's the biggest Democratic star to emerge during the second Trump administration.

His candidacy goes to the heart of big questions about the future of the Democratic Party.

His supporters love his energy and his progressive vision, but critics fear his leftist views and that he might hurt the economy of New York City.

I wonder, as you gear up to run for reelection, are you taking any notes from Mamdani and his approach?

- I mean, I think all of us in public service should take the lesson of listening to one's constituents, and one of the things we're seeing in New York right now is a real concern around affordability and a candidate that rose to the occasion with solutions or ideas on how to address that.

And so I think any of us lose touch with our constituents and their most pressing concerns do so at our own peril, and that's certainly a lesson for me and for anybody thinking about running for public office.

- If Mamdani wins, do you think he can thread the needle of achieving progressive victories without causing the downside feared by his detractors?

- You know, I don't know enough about how the politics of New York City government work and the council and the relationship with Albany and such.

What I do know is that I'm someone who believes deeply in the power of government to improve people's lives.

As you know, prior to getting elected office, I worked in government.

I'm a real believer that we can actually improve people's lives through government action.

I also know that right now there is sort of all-time low trust and confidence in government.

And so I get wary about empty promises or bold promises that you can't fulfill because it has the potential to further disenfranchise or otherwise cause constituents to believe that the system's broken and and can't be fixed.

And so I think any of us running for office need to be disciplined to make promises that we can actually fulfill and programs that we can deliver on because that's the only way we're going to restore confidence in government and be able to move forward with the trust and confidence of our constituents.

- You're right, Mayor, there is a real deficit of trust in government and also for your party, the Democratic Party, and there's this overarching debate about whether Democrats need to move more to the center or to the left to achieve more electoral success.

How do you look at that question?

- You know, I think the place to start is honestly in local government.

If you look at surveys and polls, the area in which people trust their government officials the most is at the local level, and the reason for that, I believe, is because our constituents know us.

You know, Rhode Island's a little bit of an exception 'cause we're so small.

We know our congressmen.

We know our senators.

But in most states, that's not the case.

But in the local level across the country, people know their mayors, and they see us at the supermarket.

They call us when their garbage doesn't get picked up.

And so there's a real personal connection.

And so I think looking to local leaders as a way to restore confidence and as the future of the party is the right way to go about it.

You know, we are a diverse country, and the politics of New York are different than the politics of Providence and certainly different than the politics of, I don't know, Phoenix or somewhere, that's just a very different place.

And so I don't know that there's one ideological lane or one part of the spectrum of Democratic views that's the right answer.

I think it's more about trusting and lifting up and ultimately kind of promoting through electing to hire office leaders who have demonstrated an ability to deliver, an ability to listen to their constituents, and have earned and garnered the trust of their community.

- You face a challenge next year from State Representative David Morales, a young progressive.

His argument is that in his view, you're not getting the job done for the working people of Providence.

How do you respond?

- So I'm really proud of what we've accomplished in three years, and I hope to be able to earn four more years.

I've not officially launched my campaign, but I'm clearly running for reelection.

And so over the next year, I'll be making my case to the voters of Providence about the progress that we've made and articulate my vision for what I think is the work that is still yet to do and where we're headed.

I am really excited about the prospect of four more years and hopeful that the voters of Providence will return me to have a chance to do that.

- Amid the government shutdown right now, one of the big concerns is diminishing food aid for people in Rhode Island and other states.

We're seeing attention on this from Governor McKee, his challenger, Helena Foulks, and other people.

What can the city do to help address the need for this?

- We need to do everything we can to make sure that the most vulnerable members of our community have the most basic need, food.

And so first, at the national level, we really need to encourage and advocate for and demand that the President, Republicans in Congress and the Senate, get back to business and pass a funding bill.

Second of all, locally here, we're never going to be able to backstop at the city level the amount of money that the federal government spends on SNAP, but what we can do is triage the emergency.

And so that means surging food assistance through our food banks, and my Department of Emergency Management in the city of Providence has an emergency food plan.

We have activated it.

It involves working with our local food banks to make sure that they've got excess food stores so that they're ready for the demand that's gonna come in just a couple of days here.

Certainly members of the community are encouraged to step up and help as well, but this isn't just about a fundraising call.

The city needs to step into the breach, and we're going to by surging dollars to food banks so that they can help meet the need.

I'm under no illusion that that is the same as people having their EBT cards filled.

You know, families deserve the dignity and the choice and the right to shop for what they want to eat and the meals that their kids want to have prepared.

Just telling people to go to a food bank is a poor substitute for that.

But that's where we are right now in the midst of this shutdown, and we want to make sure that people's basic needs are met.

- Speaking of the Trump administration, Mayor Smiley, an incident over the summer highlighted the question of whether Providence Police were cooperating with ICE, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.

You signed an executive order clarifying the city's policy that was still in place, and you said, "Providence Police are not immigration officers."

Was that step sufficient to address the needs of the immigrant community in Providence in this very tense moment?

- Well, it certainly is a tense moment, and I know there's widespread fear in our community.

I've heard personal stories about businesses that are struggling because customers don't feel safe leaving their house.

I know that there's kids who aren't going to school because their parents are worried about sending their kids to school in this environment.

This is a major problem that affects families, affects businesses, affects our entire community.

And so my executive order sought to restore a little bit of confidence in all of the steps that we're taking as a community, including the police, but beyond the police.

We want to make sure that schools and courthouses and hospitals know what to do, that everyone feels well acquainted with the process for how to make sure that the immigration officers are presenting a valid warrant, that they know who to call.

I've funded through Dorcas, which is our primary funder for immigration services, a 24/7 legal hotline to make sure that residents know that they have a resource that they can call for whatever their unique circumstance might be.

And Providence Police have the trust of the community.

We want to make sure we maintain that trust.

Providence Police are not, will not, be immigration agents.

And we want to make sure that every resident in Providence, whether they're documented or not, feels comfortable calling the police because we don't want them to be victims of crime.

We want them to help report a crime in the neighborhood if they see it so that we can bring justice to someone else who may have been harmed.

And I feel good about the policies and practices of the Providence Police Department.

In the midst of a really complicated and really hard time, we have, I think, struck the right balance to ensure safety in our community, protection for our residents, while still not violating any federal laws.

- And there are a lot of tough issues that wash up on your desk when you're the mayor of a city like Providence.

Is the job tougher than you thought it would be?

- I certainly didn't anticipate another Trump administration.

I felt remarkably well prepared coming into the job three years ago having served as the chief of staff to the governor, the previous chief operating officer in Providence.

I had a wealth of government experience.

What was impossible to anticipate is this time we're living in right now.

Every week there is something new coming from Washington that we devote a ton of energy to running down.

We've filed multiple lawsuits.

There's been pauses in funding that then get unfrozen by the courts.

We're having to reevaluate what does this executive order from the president mean, what does that executive order from the president mean?

There's often very little information or communication, and so that has been really hard.

It's been really hard on my team.

We know it's really hard on the community, our partners, people like the school department and after-school providers.

I mean, everybody has experienced whiplash this year, and I don't think there's anything that could have prepared us for that.

- Given that breakneck pace, and we're less than a year into the second Trump administration, how different are things going to be by the time his term ends?

- It's impossible to know.

It feels like we lived a lifetime this year, and we've got three years to go.

You know, I hope, and obviously am proud to be a Democrat, and I hope that we can restore a check or balance in the Congress after the next election because the way in which our federal government is being run right now is really harming our community and I think cities around the country.

- Mayor Smiley, you unveiled a new public-private approach this week for building housing in Providence.

The plan is to build 76 new homes on a vacant downtown lot on Washington Street in Providence.

As we know, Rhode Island, Providence, has vast needs for more housing to address the housing crisis.

76 more homes is great, but it does not go far in addressing the total need.

How far can your three-pronged approach really go in closing the need for new housing?

- So, first of all, Providence is going further and faster than any other community in Rhode Island, not just 'cause we're the biggest, also on a per-capita basis.

So we are certainly leading the way, and I hope that we continue to lead but that it also inspires some other communities to do the same because this cannot be a Providence-only solution.

It's not a Providence-only problem.

So our three-pronged approach is production, produce more housing.

That's the most important prong.

Then preservation to make sure that the housing we do have is maintained, particularly the affordable housing 'cause we don't want to take one step forward and then two steps backwards, and then protection, which is, we know in a rental market like this that landlords can behave badly.

And so we want to make sure that tenants are protected through things like eviction defense, temporary or emergency rental assistance, and other strategies to protect tenants.

That's the right mix.

I'm confident that the only realistic, sustainable solution to the housing crisis are those three prongs with production being the most important.

So you talk about that new project.

We highlighted it because it's a new tool in the toolbox that we haven't used before where the city actually bought the land to ensure that we didn't lose an opportunity to build more housing for what is currently a surface parking lot, which is not a use we're trying to incentivize.

We're actually trying to decentivize.

But it is only one of many developments happening in the city.

In our housing report which we released earlier this week, we noted that there were almost 900 new units last year, last fiscal year, and so we are really making great gains.

76 may not sound like a lot, but in aggregate, there were almost 1,000 new units last year, and we're still going full speed ahead.

And so there's development happening across the city in every neighborhood, in many cases in sort of low scale, three families, four families, small-scale buildings.

And that's how we're gonna meet the moment.

It's not gonna be, you know, one big high-rise.

It's going to be a bunch of infill development opportunities across the city.

By the way, of those nearly 1,000 new units, 22% of them were permanently subsidized affordable housing units, more than double what the state target is.

And so Providence is going to continue to lead the way on meeting the housing crisis.

- You oppose a rent-control ordinance that the city council plans to take up later this year.

What is your alternative for decreasing the upward pressure on rents in Providence?

- Well, first of all, to be fair, I've not actually seen what the city council is proposing.

They haven't shared it with me yet.

They're not all created equally around the country.

I have real concerns with rent control as a policy because I've studied extensively and seen what its effects are.

But I will wait and see what they actually put out.

But here's my concerns with rent control.

We have a supply shortage.

The reason rents are rising faster here than in most places in the country is because we have more demand than we have supply.

And so you have to ask the question of, "Is this policy gonna make it easier or harder to build new housing?"

And rent control in Providence will make it harder to build.

First of all, we'd be the only community in Rhode Island to have it, and so it's very easy to see that development will go to Pawtucket or Cranston or Warwick or anywhere else other than Providence 'cause if you're a developer with the ability to build a new housing unit, why would you build in the community with rent control?

Second of all, there's major unintended consequences, and we've seen this in communities around the country, communities that we have a lot in common with.

Applications for new development in St.

Paul dropped 80% after they passed rent control.

I've talked to the mayor of Portland, Maine.

They're years into it, and they still call it, quote, "a work in progress."

We know that there are massive unintended consequences in New York.

There are example after example after example where it discourages investment.

It causes the quality of housing stock to be degraded.

It creates winners and losers.

And I think it's not actually the right solution to the problem we find ourselves in.

We have a supply shortage, and so my solution is what we were just talking about, the three prongs, production, preservation, and protection, with production being the most important.

We've reformed our zoning code and made it easier to build more dense housing everywhere in the city.

We've relaxed parking minimums to make it easier to live without a car or for a development to move forward without using land for parking.

We have incentivized growth along transit corridors, what we're calling growth corridors.

We've made it easier and faster to get a permit.

We've lowered tax rates and diversified the number of tax rates.

So for a small-scale residential, it's an even more dramatically lower rate than the commercial rate people used to pay.

We've done all of the strategies that are recommended.

And while it's hard, that doesn't mean rents are going to come down tomorrow.

The reality is, is it's the actual sustainable solution.

Some of these other things are empty promises or good talking points, but they're not solutions.

What we're doing is actually what's going to move the needle on housing in Providence and in Rhode Island.

- You've been pushing for Providence to regain control of the city schools.

The same factors that have made it challenging to improve student performance for many years remain in place.

So why should Providence parents expect things to be any different once the city does resume control of its schools?

- Well, first of all, I think parents and certainly community members across the state know that schools should be led at the local level.

It should be governed at the local level.

It's easier to have a say in your child's future when they're locally run.

The state's intervention had a task to do.

That has run its course.

It's time to return our schools to local control, and the state agrees with that.

Nobody's talking about an indefinite long-term intervention.

We're arguing over exactly when they should come back.

Second of all, the school department budget is nearly as large as the city's budget, and there are many operational, administrative, and financial decisions that I am confident we can do a better job of oversight of in this moment.

In a time where federal education funding is jeopardized, where everyone's budgets are tight, we need to make sure that that place is running as effectively and efficiently as possible.

And then finally, parents understand that they want to see changes in their kids' timeline.

It is hard to hear, "We're going to fix this over the next 20 years."

If your kid's a freshman in high school, you got four years to get it right.

And so there's a real sense of urgency, and the people who they hold accountable for those results are not nameless bureaucrats at the state.

They're their mayor, their school board member, and their city council member.

They hold us accountable for those results, and that doesn't bother me.

I care as much about their kids' results as anyone.

And so we should be given the keys and the ability to actually effect change because we're the ones that are going to be held accountable for it.

- You mentioned the school's budget.

That's taking more and more money from the city every year, same thing for the city's unfunded pension liability.

You called your most recent budget the toughest since you took office.

Is the city's financial trajectory really sustainable?

- It is, but it requires really, really experienced leaders to manage the city's budget, and it requires discipline.

You know, we just got our A+ bond rating reaffirmed.

We are meeting all of our obligations.

We run balanced budgets, but that doesn't just happen.

That takes a lot of work, and it's really difficult in the current federal environment and as you point out, with the pressures from the school department and from the pension system.

But I've been doing this a little while, and I got a team of really smart, capable people who have been doing it even longer.

And we know how to manage this budget, and we're gonna continue to do so in a fiscally responsible way.

- You've traveled to Israel a few times, most recently, earlier this year.

We see how with the conflict in Gaza, there's more support for the Palestinian cause, and Prime Minister Netanyahu's approach has alienated some supporters of Israel.

Are you concerned that this will be an adverse issue for you in the mayoral race?

- What I am concerned about is to make sure that every member of my city feels safe, feels seen, and feels respected, and that extends to the Jewish members of our community.

Providence City government, no local government has a foreign affairs department, and I try not to get involved in, and I would encourage my colleagues in city government to not get involved in foreign affairs.

That's not what we do.

But what we do have is a large Jewish community who feels less safe than they did several years ago.

There are acts of antisemitism that have taken place in our community and in Rhode Island, including very recently, that are deeply concerning.

And so that's my priority.

I know it's related, but it's not the same.

I don't have a role in the conflict in the Middle East, but the conflict in the Middle East spills over into how communities are treated here in Providence.

We have a long history of peaceful protests.

There were no shortage of protests, and I absolutely respect people's right to protest, and I'm glad that we've done so without incident over the last several years.

The same note, as a mayor, any mayor spends a lot of time in faith communities.

I get invited to a lot of church services.

I get invited to mosques at Ramadan, and I go to temple.

And of all of those places that I visit, the only community that has a police presence at their house of worship are synagogues in Providence.

That's not okay.

Nobody in a house of worship in the city of Providence should have to have a police detail 'cause they're concerned for their safety.

And right now, the only group that does is the Jewish community and through their temples and synagogues.

And so we've got a real problem with antisemitism.

We've got a real problem with fear and intimidation in our community, and that's the thing that I'm most focused on as it pertains to what is happening in the Middle East right now.

And so that's why I've really leaned in hard to working on that issue.

I chair now the advisory committee of the Combat Antisemitism Movement for mayors across the country to share best practices and strategies and provide support for one another as we try to ensure that every member of our community feels safe and respected at home.

- There are many supporters of Israel who are troubled by the way Netanyahu has prosecuted the conflict in Gaza.

They think it's excessive, even barbaric.

Does Netanyahu bear responsibility for eroding international public support for Israel?

- We've got a broad set of perspectives on the conflict, on various presidents, within the Jewish community, within the broader community.

And everyone's entitled to that right.

So long as the the protests in Providence remain peaceful, we respect their right to do so.

And there are lots of groups that are trying to foster good, thoughtful dialogue between communities and within the Jewish community specifically.

I'm not going opine on presidential politics in a country halfway across the world.

That's not the job I got hired to do.

The job I got hired to do is to run a good city and to make sure that everyone feels respected and safe in the city of Providence, and that's what I'm focused on.

- Here's something a little bit more in your bailiwick.

The Centurion Foundation, which is trying to acquire Roger Williams Medical Center and Fatima Hospital is having a lot of difficulty closing its financial transaction.

Are you confident that Centurion is going to be able to do that for Roger Williams, a major employer and health center in Providence?

- Yeah, listen, I've been working closely with the new, well, what's hoped to be the new ownership team to ensure that this transaction goes through.

The city of Providence relies heavily on Roger Williams.

Of course they own Fatima also.

That's in North Providence.

But Roger Williams is an important part of our healthcare system in Providence.

Providence Fire Department, our ambulances are at the Rog regularly.

We already know that the emergency rooms at The Miriam and Rhode Island Hospital are crowded as it is.

Would be a major negative impact on our healthcare system, and so we need that hospital to do well.

We need it to remain open, which is why I've been trying to facilitate or assist in seeing that transaction go through.

You know, they took another step this week with Bank of America.

I hope they're able to close on that transaction soon.

We need a healthy Roger Williams and Fatima for the entire state healthcare system.

If you're someone who says, "Well, I don't go to Roger Williams," you care about Roger Williams because if that hospital closes, it's gonna impact the hospital you do go to.

- We see how the fortunes of Downtown Providence have waxed and waned over the years.

Since the pandemic, there are a lot fewer downtown workers, and that poses a challenge for a number of downtown businesses to get enough customers.

What is your plan for responding to that?

- So you're right.

There have been waxes and wanes in progress, and what has happened, particularly post-pandemic, is an evolution for what downtown is.

The commercial office market is shrinking, and the number of in-person office workers is smaller than it used to be, and probably that's a permanent change.

But there's also more people living downtown than ever before, and so it is transitioning from a purely commercial neighborhood to a mixed-use neighborhood.

And maybe at one point, it'll be a majority residential neighborhood.

What I hear now is we need things like a childcare center downtown, we need a doggy daycare downtown, because people are living in this neighborhood.

And so we're trying to facilitate those transitions.

Our small business team is working with any young entrepreneur or a small business that wants to make a go of it, Downtown Providence.

And we've got, you know, substantial efforts underway to facilitate the conversion of vacant commercial office space into residential units, solving two problems at once, eliminating some of the empty commercial space and providing houses that are so desperately needed.

- Providence Mayor Brett Smiley, thank you for sitting down.

- Thank you.

- Thanks for watching "One on One" with me, Ian Donnis.

You can find all of our past interviews on the YouTube channel for Ocean State Media.

We'll see you next week on "One on One."

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