(upbeat music) - [Narrator] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

this week on Un-Spun one-party-politics.

In Washington, the Republicans are pretty much running the show now, in Congress and the White House.

Well, back home here in Charlotte, it's almost all Democrats all the time.

I'll talk with former Mayor Richard Vinroot about two party rule versus one party dominance.

Plus we'll count down the top five failures of the two party system that politicians won't admit.

(dramatic music) In today's America, welcome to the spin game.

Believe me, I know I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game.

I was played by the spin game.

But aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the world we're in here on Un-Spun.

Good evening.

I'm Pat McCrory and welcome to Un-Spun, the show that tells you what politicians are thinking, but not saying.

Today may be February the 14th, but it's no Valentine's Day in politics.

There's no love lost between Democrats and Republicans because in these early days of the new Trump White House, the honeymoon's over.

- Today, president Trump promised more cuts and more political payback.

- But I will pick out a target and I say, "Go in."

And they're finding massive amounts of fraud, abuse, waste.

- House Democrats have repeatedly made clear that we will work with anyone in this town to solve problems for hardworking American taxpayers.

- President Trump experienced, again, the sabotage undermining his administration in the first term.

He's trying to prevent that from happening in his second term.

- Yep, after all those years of Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, Republicans clearly are in no mood to kiss and make up.

They've got the Oval Office now in the House and the Senate and the Supreme Court, too.

It's a one party power trifecta.

And we're seeing more and more of this at all levels of politics.

In fact, in Raleigh, North Carolina Republicans are only one seat short of a super majority as they take away more and more power from the governor's office and maneuver to overturn a judicial election.

And here in Charlotte, it's the Democrats who control the mayor's office, the city council, the county commission, the school board, the sheriff's office, and most of the local seats in the State House and the State Senate.

So if you're a Republican in Charlotte or a Democrat in Raleigh and Washington, your political voice is more like a whisper.

It's like the lyrics of that old country song, "You're looking for love in all the wrong places," and this Valentine's Day, it's probably feels more like the St. Valentine's Day massacre.

Joining us here at Un-Spun this week to talk about the demise of two party politics is my friend and former Charlotte Mayor, Richard Vinroot.

Richard served two terms in the mayor's office in one national acclaim for his leadership at City Hall before stepping aside to run for governor.

For decades he's been a top attorney here in Charlotte and his fair-minded voice of reason in statewide politics is respected by both parties.

Richard, it's an honor to have you here an Un-Spun.

Thank you very much.

- Privilege to be here.

- So since you and I were mayors a long, long time ago, we really have one party control at the local, state and federal level.

I mean, that's a huge change since when you and I were in office.

Let's first talk about local politics.

What's the big impact of one party control?

- I think the big impact, Pat, is that there's one philosophy basically in that city hall.

You don't have debates over philosophy.

It turns into sort of a personality matter because they're all of the same party.

And that would be true at other levels of government, just for the reverse.

I was thinking back to the fact that in the late 70s, before I got involved in local government, the people in the community were very upset that I think five members of the five person county commission were members of Myers Park Presbyterian Church.

It wouldn't surprise me today if a majority of city council were members of maybe the big wonderful Baptist church over on Beatties Ford Road, Friendship Baptist Church.

So the worm has turned basically.

- But the results are the same.

- They are the same.

- The concept when John Belk, our predecessor and everyone went to Myers Park Presbyterian Church, they all made the decisions before the meetings were in the hill.

- They'd walked down the hall going to church or going to Sunday school and talk about public issues.

And that was what the community really didn't want.

They wanted them to talk about those issues in the public forum, in the council meeting itself.

And that's a risk, of course.

- Now there are only two Republicans on the city council, no Republicans on the county commission, no Republicans on the school board, and our state delegation is primarily Democrat too.

This is a big change.

When you and I were mayors and when I was your mayor pro tem, it was maybe a six-five majority one way or the other.

- I think Pat, the only time in my eight years on city council and four years as mayor that we had a majority Republican council was my second term as mayor.

We had six Republicans and five Democrats on the council and me obviously Republican mayor.

But other than that it was always a slight Democratic majority.

But the debates were about issues and the personalities were, I thought, not the real issue.

And we had good relationships and I think we liked each other as people.

And that's a good thing.

I'm sure these are good people and they mean well, but I do think there's a risk when you're all of one persuasion.

- One thing I found out too, in politics in Raleigh and in Charlotte here, if there's one party control, the debate is not about the issue.

It's a debate about power within that one party control.

- Did you see the same thing?

- I did see that.

I do see that and I think another offshoot of this is that the press is no longer as interested in one party local government.

I rarely, well, we only have a paper, what, three days a week.

So it's not much coverage in any event, but there's not much to cover in City Hall because so much of their decision-making probably even occurs before they get to the council meeting itself.

- One other change in county and local and city politics is there's no competition.

- Right.

No.

We Republicans-- - In elections.

- We Republicans, Pat, wouldn't dare run these days because it would be a blowout.

We wouldn't have a chance of getting elected to the Charlotte City Council-- - Or to mayor.

- Or mayor, no.

- You and I couldn't get elected mayor today based upon the demographics of-- - No, I agree with that.

And were elected in a Democratic city.

It was primarily Democrats that elected us to local office that would flip over and support someone like me or someone like you.

But today it's pretty much a one party system, and I noticed a one race council.

Nothing wrong with that, but I think all but two members of our city council are people of color, good people, I might add.

And my suspicion is that's probably true on the county commission as well, although I've not looked, and I don't know whether people of color make a majority of our population, probably not quite.

- No.

- But it is a consequence, really, of urban America has turned blue, basically.

They are supporting Democrats and not Republicans.

And if you look at a map of America, it's turned red with blue dots.

And that's probably not good either.

- Which is what we see in Raleigh.

The state legislature now is almost dominant by the Republicans partly because like the Democrats do at the local level, they gerrymandered the district seats.

- [Richard] Sure, sure.

- In Raleigh, we Republicans gerrymander the House and Senate seats in the Senate because it's not, you know, it's just like the House seats, it's no different.

- Right.

It's interesting, Pat, one of the people that a friend of ours, yours as well as mine, Jim Holshouser, one of your predecessors, the first Republican governor, probably in the last 100 years-- - Since the Civil War.

- Yeah.

Jim told me one time, he said, "I drive down from Boone "during the legislature every Monday or Tuesday.

And he said, "I drive down that mountain.

"I think, what am I doing this for?

"Why am I going, I'm gonna sit on the back row.

"Nobody's gonna say anything to me.

"They're not gonna pay any attention to me.

"I'm really irrelevant."

And he was, he was a Republican minority.

I have a law partner, Brandon Lofton.

My guess is Brandon has some of those things, thoughts today when he drives to Raleigh to sit on the back row-- - And he's a Democrat?

- He's a Democrat.

I suspect he gets not much attention because he's not part of the majority party.

- And they can just ignore him.

- Exactly.

Exactly.

- Interesting, also in Washington DC.

- [Richard] Yeah.

- Now all of a sudden, and we've had one party control in our history, I mean, Obama had it for a while, Trump had it for a while.

Now Trump has it again.

Supreme Court, the House and Senate, and of course the Executive Branch.

What is the downside of that?

Even if we're Republicans?

- The downside, of course, is much the same as locally.

I mean, it devolves into a matter of personalities within a party and not much about the issues.

But they are so closely divided that, at least in Washington, certainly in the House of Representatives, a flip of two seats and it's a democratic majority.

So it's a far closer call there.

Even in the Senate where the Republicans have maybe a three or four seat majority, they're at great risk in two years when these elections come up.

So it can change on a dime.

- One other issue is money.

When there's one party control, all the money that you fundraise only goes to that party because the people, a lot of the people who give money want to give to the money to the people who win.

- You support the winners.

That's it.

You're exactly right about that.

You're exactly right about that.

And the money that pours in these days from these subgroups and special interests maybe overshadows the money that you, as a candidate or I as a candidate, would raise.

I mean, there's a whole lot of money that's spent to elect people today by folks that we never see their faces or their names.

- One thing that's not quite understood, it's the two parties, especially the party in the control that then makes the rules, for example, gerrymandering.

- [Richard] Sure.

- They also make the election rules and make it difficult to get even third parties on the ballot.

- Yeah, yeah.

No, I think democracy, it's not, it's not at great risk of being lost, but it certainly is in some peril these days at the levels of government we're talking about, where there's one party rule locally, one party rule state, and closely divided rule at the federal level.

It's a morass these days.

- So in the remaining minute, if you were king for the day, or governor for the day, or mayor for the day again, and you were a great mayor-- - Well, you're kind.

Thank you.

- And I was honored to be your mayor pro tem.

- Mom agreed with you.

I'm not sure the voters and the folks listening to this agree with you.

- You had a great mom.

I enjoyed meeting her, you and your dad.

- Thank you.

- What would you recommend?

How do we change this to keep this experiment of the United States democracy alive?

- Well, keep participating.

I mean, and elect good people.

And look, I'm 84 years old, so what do I know?

Ask somebody who's 20 years old or 30 years old.

They're the ones that probably have a better feel for this.

I can't even send a text, so I know a little about the modern world we are in, that I'm really pretty irrelevant.

- But you are a person of wisdom and we've appreciated your public service very much.

- Thank you, Pat.

- It's been an honor to have you on Un-Spun.

- You're kind to ask me.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

Next up, PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier takes Un-Spun on the street out at Douglas Airport for more on what the voters think of one party politics.

- Yeah, whether you agree or disagree on one party running, everything kind of depends on whether it's your party that's in charge.

- I think it's a good thing if whatever party's in power is getting rid of all of this spending that's not necessary.

- You know, I think that there's a lot of things that Trump is gonna do that's gonna upset a lot of people just because it's been the status quo for so long.

And, you know, I think that once we get past that, you know, pulling the covers back, I think we'll be better for it.

- [Jeff] Do you like what's going on in Washington right now?

- I think things are going a little too fast.

It's not good.

I'm a Republican myself, but I think as Americans, we should be able to work together.

(news music) - [Jeff] Did you vote for him?

- I didn't.

- [Jeff] Are you gonna give him the benefit of the doubt?

- I am.

- Why?

- Because that's, we're supposed to be the United States of America, not red or blue.

You can dislike somebody, you can disagree, but you have to agree to disagree.

- To be honest, I don't really agree with only one party controlling the whole dynamic.

Even if our city is run by Democrats, there's not gonna be much of a change in the bigger picture, I guess.

- The federal government only has so much control.

We have state government, we have local governments, and to a large degree, the local governments really dictate what's happening here in our community and the things that really affect us most are controlled locally.

But at the end of the day, it's all about taking care of each other and moving ourselves forward as a people and a nation.

And we do need to be work together than apart.

- And one party don't know everything.

- I wish they would work closer together.

But, you know, every four years it changes, over and over and over again.

- And what we're hearing this week is that no matter what side of the political fence you're on, what they really wanna see is both sides working together.

Pat.

- Thanks Jeff, so what do you think about this issue?

Email us your thoughts on one party politics to unspun@wtvi.org.

(news music) All right, tonight on our Un-Spun countdown, the top five failures of the two party system that politicians won't admit to, at least not publicly.

Let's start out with number five.

Number five, voters are denied more choices by the two parties.

Republicans and Democrats control the state election board, the county election board, they control the whole election apparatus.

And they do not want third parties on the ballot because it takes away from their power.

They control the system.

Number four, parties reward seniority over talent and legislative bodies.

In other words, if you're a Democrat or Republican and you have the majority in the state legislature or in Washington DC, the longer you stay in office, the more you're rewarded, you become chairman of some of the most powerful committees in Congress, and therefore you get to stay longer and longer and longer and there is no rotation whatsoever.

Number three, gerrymandering creates one party elections.

Yep.

It happens right here in Charlotte.

The democratically controlled city council gerrymanders the city council elections, the Republicans in Raleigh gerrymander the state elections at the Senate and House level.

And in Washington DC, well, they just take the results of what do the state legislatures do because the state legislatures really control the gerrymander in all 50 states.

That's the power of party politics.

And number two, the political middle is ignored.

Why is this?

Because 80% of elections, due to gerrymandering, are determined in the primaries and in the primaries the far left and the far left control the voting base, therefore the middle, the middle of the electoral system, those who are not too conservative or too liberal are left out of the political discussion.

And number one, raising money and gaining power is the major objective of the two political parties.

Some things never change.

(news music) PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier joins me now for Un-Spun One-on-One.

Oh, I love this part.

Talking to the media and favorite personality and Un-Spun, Jeff Sonier.

- We're talking about one party, it's no party for me.

I'm just letting you-- (men laugh) I ask the questions, you answer 'em.

And that's why we call it one-on-one.

- Let's party.

- Yeah.

So are we overreacting to what's going on in Washington right now?

I mean, when Reagan beat Carter, when Clinton beat Bush, when Obama was elected, there was a big turnover as well.

Are we overreacting or is this something that's truly different from the past?

- I think what's different is the personality of Donald Trump.

We've never seen a personality like this.

The closest was probably Ronald Reagan.

But now, because of the Supreme Court, has never had this type of control.

And then you have the Congress and Senate and House.

But what's gonna happen is within two years, there's another election.

So what Trump is doing, he's taken advantage of a honeymoon where he can gain as much power as he can because he knows in two years there's a good chance that at minimum the Republicans could lose the House.

- But he's got right now public opinion on his side.

Is that because of the honeymoon?

- Yes.

Most of the times that's because of the honeymoon.

The president, especially after a inauguration, gets a honeymoon.

You need to take advantage of that honeymoon, especially when the approval ratings are high, at least for Donald Trump, that's high.

And you need to move and move and move when you have high approval rating.

Because once it goes low, everyone jumps off the ship.

- Is there a tendency of, you know, a risk of overreaching when you think you have public opinion on your side when you're in that honeymoon period?

I would think one mistake, honeymoon's over.

- Oh, it can happen very quickly.

It can happen to an ethical concern.

It can happen to a faux pa regarding a total exaggeration of the truth.

It can happen because people might say they want something until it impacts them personally.

And there are certain things out of your control, like inflation.

The inflation is really not in control of whoever is president, in most cases.

And if inflation gets out of control, not only in our country, but worldwide, there could be pushback for any president.

And that happened during Jimmy Carter's administration, he could not control inflation.

It happened during Richard Nixon in the early 70s.

Inflation is the toughest thing to deal with for an elected official.

- Now, when you were elected governor, you had the highest winning percentage of any Republican governor in history.

You had a Republican legislature.

- Yeah.

- What's that like going into that situation as a new governor with those sorts of resources at your fingertips?

- One thing I was naive about, I thought the legislature would be with me, but the legislature wanted all the power because they had just gained power two years before me.

So frankly, they would prefer to have a Democratic governor in office that they could push around.

A Republican governor was in their way.

I was not aware of that calculation by a super majority in the Republican party leading the House and Senate.

They basically said, "McCrory, "get outta the way we're gonna lead," and I had to sue 'em.

I had to sue my own Republican party for trying to take over executive control.

- So when you've got one party control, it's not necessarily a unified party.

- No.

In fact, as I mentioned to Richard Vinroot, usually if you have one party control, then we start talking about power.

People within the same camp start seeking power and start fighting each other.

It's kind of like families at times.

Sometimes it's best to have someone else to fight than yourselves.

And that's what typically happens within both parties.

They get in a circle and aim at each other.

- They call it these circular firing squad.

- It's a natural dynamic that occurs in a lot of things, including politics.

- You touched on this with Richard Vinroot, as well.

When the city is one party and the feds are another party, or the state is a different party, how does that affect how you govern at the local level?

- You better go learn how to kiss the ring of the other party when you go up to Raleigh.

And many of us have had to do that before.

I had to do it with Mike Easley when he was the Democratic governor.

Bass, Knight, and Black were the head of the House and Senate.

I was the Republican mayor.

And they're going, "Why would we want to help you?"

But the dynamics started changing there 'cause they started seeing the Democrats gaining power in Charlotte.

So they were more tempted to listen to me.

Now when you have Democrats go to Raleigh, especially the legislature, to ask for things like transit and a new transit tax, the Republicans are going, "Why would we want to help you?"

The famous line I always got is, "You're not my voter."

You're not my voter.

And these are rural legislators or suburban legislators that are in gerrymandered districts, Republican gerrymandered districts.

Why would they wanna listen to a bunch of gerrymandered democratic city councilman, county commission, and school board members?

It doesn't help them in their next election.

Now, the Governor, Stein, Governor Stein being a Democrat, he's gonna want to do as much for Charlotte as possible because he's gonna need Charlotte for his next reelection.

- So it's political.

I mean, these decisions, even right after the election, these early decisions are being made with a political mindset.

- They all count votes.

The voters are their bosses and they know how to count which bosses are with them and which bosses are against them.

And their election's only two years from now for the House and Senate in Raleigh, not just Congress.

- You talk about Super PACs a lot and fundraising.

How is the rise of Super PACs affecting the strength or weaknesses of the two parties, Republicans and Democrats?

- That's a great question.

Actually, in many respects, the Super PACs are gonna weaken the political parties because one reason we'd go through the political parties as candidates is they were their own Super PAC and they could raise unlimited money from the millionaires and the billionaires now.

Now the Super PACs are actually taking money away from the parties and going, "Why should I go for this party?

"I'll control that money myself and run ads myself."

So it could have a dynamic change in the power of the Democratic and Republican party.

And maybe in the long run a very wealthy person could basically start a third party.

Very similar to what Ross Perot tried to do.

- You kind of led me into my next question.

We talk about one party rule and two party rules, but it's only two parties.

Are we ever gonna return to the days where there were multiple parties?

Or in some communities where there are multiple parties and not just two lines on the ballot?

- Well, the unaffiliated voter is becoming a greater number than the Democrats and Republicans in North Carolina.

So the unaffiliated voter would have to make a decision, can I leave either party and still have control?

The dilemma is, as I said in my top five, the parties control the elections.

And with that, they control the power of who you can vote for.

And if there's no chance for a third party to win, the unaffiliated voter is gonna go, "I'm not gonna waste my vote."

- Is there any issue, last question, any issue that you think there is an opportunity for compromise on in Washington between the Republicans and the Democrats?

Something that President Trump can't do on his own with his Republican allies?

- It's gonna have to be the deficit, but both parties are running from it.

They don't want to own up to the deficit.

Although there is some work done by Musk, for example, on controlling spending, but they're all leaving alone the big ones, the big three, social security, Medicare, Medicaid.

That's the real crutch of our unfunded liabilities.

And any politician, Republican or Democrats, who touches that is in big trouble in the next election.

- Thank you, governor, that's all the time we have for this week's one-on-one.

- Thank you.

(news music) We remember George Washington for lots of things.

Father of our country, check.

Crossing the Delaware, check.

Chopping down the cherry tree, check.

But his farewell address in 1796, here's something else worth remembering.

Washington referred to political parties, and I quote, "Potent engines by which cunning, "ambitious, and unprincipled men "will be able to subvert the power "of the people and usurp for themselves "the reigns of government."

Yep.

Washington did not like political parties.

And it turns out that Washington's words of warning back then still ring true today about the political camps that divide our country against the greater good.

In every campaign we hear politicians say, "I promise to put country over party."

And many of them actually try to keep that promise once they're elected.

But that's when reality sets in for politicians.

Republicans and Democrats make the rules.

Party leaders decide who gets the power.

And when you fight the party, you lose, you wind up on the sidelines while both parties look after their own self-interest and country over party, it becomes just another slogan.

But the rise of independent voters could change that.

Here in North Carolina, there are now more unaffiliated voters than there are Democrats or Republicans.

It's a sign that neither party has the answers.

That's what voters are looking for.

They're looking for problem solvers.

These unaffiliated voters don't care about parties.

They want honest problem solvers who can work together regardless of whether they're Republicans or Democrats.

They want everybody's voices heard, not just the voices of party leaders.

Isn't that what Washington wanted back in 1796?

Isn't that what we all want now?

Let's just admit it.

The two party system is failing us for the exact reason our founding father predicted.

And remember what else Washington supposedly said more than 200 years ago when he chopped down that cherry tree?

"I cannot tell a lie."

George wasn't lying then and he isn't lying now, either.

Well, that's the reality as I see it.

I hope you'll come back next week as we tell you what politicians are thinking, but not saying right here on Un-Spun.

Goodnight folks.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] A production of PBS Charlotte.