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Next OnQ is Pittsburgh a tolerant, accepting community.

A growing, politically active minority weighs in gay Pittsburgh.

What are the pressing issues?

Is this region gay friendly and tolerant enough to attract more young, gay or straight professionals, as other big cities do?

We talk openly about these and other concerns with your sons, daughters, nephews, nieces and friends who are gay and call Pittsburgh home.

Welcome to this special edition of OnQ.

I'm Michael Bartley.

You'll notice behind me, we have a studio audience filled with professional from Pittsburgh's gay community.

They, And you will listen i as our panel discussion explores why so many gay people make Pittsburgh home, what they love about our community, and what needs to improve to compete with other cities.

Many argue a more tolerant, inclusive city better attracts young people, gay or straight.

We'll get to our panel discussion in a few moments.

But first, the story of a local organization serving many segments of gay Pittsburgh.

Caring.

Sensitive.

Non-judgmental.

Those are just a few words to describe the counseling that person provides to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community and to help carry out that important mission Persad is hosting one of the Pittsburgh area's premier art auctions.

OnQ, contributor Dave Crowley visits with two local people whose daily lives reflect the theme of the event.

Celebrate life.

Celebrate Art.

The Riverfront Trail o the North Shore of the Allegheny is an ideal spot for hiking, biking, and taking pictures.

Freelance photographer David Lydon is often drawn to water.

I don't set out to do one specific thing.

I see where the light is.

I see where the sun is.

It's exciting because it's going to be a new experience for me too.

That's what I like about photography.

Norman Brown embraces a new experience every time he picks up a paintbrush.

The tiny studio in his North Oakland home has launched countless flights of fancy.

His work is diverse but with one common denominator.

I especially love color.

Why else would you paint if you didn't like color?

David Lydon manipulates color with the help of a computer.

He transforms his photographs into abstract works of art.

This is a reflection.

I'm standing on a bridge on.

I think it's Hunt Road in Fox Chapel, and that's just shooting straight down into the water.

The sun.

It was around noontime, so the sun was right above me.

The leaves were falling because this was in October.

This is the piece that I donated last year to Persad.

Persad is a counseling center which benefits many groups, including gay men who test positive for the virus, which often leads to Aids.

Men like David Lydon.

HIV positive for 23 years.

I didn't want to die.

I didn't want to die.

So I thought I'd do whatever it I needed to do.

The photographer and the painter have never met.

Yet their stories are eerily similar.

Both are gay.

Both have diabetes.

But there's one critical difference.

Norman Brown has tested HIV negative for 23 years.

He receives regular checkups through the University of Pittsburgh men study.

My partner, was the one who actually got me involved in it, basically saying, we need to be involved in this.

They were the ones who found out that he was HIV positive at the time.

His partner, Joseph, died of Aids related illness 12 years ago.

One of Norman Brown's paintings and a recent work by David Lydon, are a part of this year's art auction to benefit the agenc that has helped them and others.

We have about 220 pieces that have been gathered.

We've been gathering art since December.

Betty Hill is executive director o the Persad Center of Pittsburgh.

She presides over a storeroom filled with works of art to be sold at Persads annual show at the Carnegie Museum of Art.

200 artists of all ages, backgrounds and orientations have donated paintings and sculptures to a premier art auction called Celebrate Life, celebrate Art.

This is our prize winner this year, our best new artist prize by Ben Odey.

It's called Not My Pony.

The whimsical nature of much of the work.

This one, for example, is called American Gayothic, belies the seriousness of their cause.

The first 20 auctions brought in more than $3 million to help the agency provide free care to people who otherwise could not afford it.

Persad is actually the nation's second oldest licensed counseling center.

We were specifically created to serve the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community.

We've been around since 1972, back when issues of homosexuality were considered a pathology in mental health and counseling services.

And so we've been created as a wellbeing center to, help that community.

And then in the early 1980s, we added to our mission HIV and Aids services to people with HIV and Aids, regardless of their sexual orientation.

The auction not only raises much needed funds for Persad, it also brings the community together to help those that Betty Hill describes as people beyond the margins, people who remain targets of discrimination.

There's a lot of other people in the world that still have a very negative view of their fellow man, who is happens to be a gay man, or who happens to have HIV or Aids.

And it's those people that I'm interested in.

David Lydon was 19 when he fled the blue collar environment of his Pittsburgh home.

How do you broach that subject?

Tell your parents that you're gay at such a young age?

You know, it was it was, I actually escaped.

I moved to South Florida.

I didn't know how to incorporate that into my life.

Seven years later, he was diagnosed with HIV.

There weren't any success stories.

There weren't any people.

There weren't long term survivors because the illness was new.

I had a doctor who said to me, whatever it takes to get to the next level, you should do that.

It might not be the best thing to do, but it's the thing that you have to do.

Frequent hikes and bicycle trips combined with diet and medication have helped him cope.

As for Norman, his greatest pai is loss of the partner he loved.

He finds contentment in the canvas and the color.

I have this feeling that there's so much realism going on, and there's enough in photography and there's there's enough in art and paintings.

And there's enough political stuff going on that I tend to want to have my artwork be placed it as an escape, like that vibrant yellow tree which he worked on until his partner's death.

I was missing Joseph, and I thought, I'm adding a figure and this is going to be Joseph.

And that way he's always going to be with me and he'll be resting.

And so I decided that it was going to be called resting in a place of color.

More than 200 paintings and sculptures will help Persad bring some color to the lives of those who are marginalized by a world that often sees things only in black and white.

They're giving back to the community.

They're helping people, and they're trying to do good with the craft that they have.

Contributions by artists provide a measure of hope for those they benefit.

Even one who remains unbowed by a fight that spans 23 years.

I don't want to give up.

I didn't want to give up then.

And I still don't want to give up.

Two men who learned the art of fighting back.

And the auction of Persad, of course, is on May 11th, and they expect more than 1500 people to come out.

Big event.

A very big event.

And it's actually mostly people who are not gay.

Not lesbian.

Probably 70% of those who show up to purchase works of art are supporters and supporters of the arts as well.

And it's really big time art.

I mean, some great oh, it's wonderful, it's wonderful.

More than 200 pieces and I don't I can't think of a bigger art auction that takes place in the Pittsburgh area.

So come on out not only to support the community, but also to support the arts, because it's really good art and one of a kind.

All right.

Dave Crowley, thanks so much for that.

Thank you.

It's always great having you.

And again, if you're interested in attending the Persad auction and reception, again, it's called Celebrate Life, Celebrate Art.

It takes place Monday evening, May 11th at the Carnegie Museum of Art in Oakland.

For more information, there's a link on our website wqed.org/OnQ.

An estimated 150,000 gay peopl live in metropolitan Pittsburgh.

The annual Gay pride Festival, held in June, attracts some 20,000 people.

The International Lesbian and Gay Film Festival is held every October.

There is a gay newspaper in Pittsburgh as well as a monthly magazine.

There are hundreds of gay owned businesses in the region, including gay friendly restaurants, hotels, and shops.

The Greater Pittsburgh Convention and Visitors Bureau has even issued a gay and lesbian travel guide for GLBT visitors to the city.

Now onto our special panel discussion tonight.

Is Pittsburgh's growing gay community becoming a political force?

Is our city tolerant of the gay community?

Do young Pittsburgher still fear coming out?

For these and other issues, Let's head over to Chris Moore for tonight's open discussion, Chris.

Thank you Michael.

And joining me now.

Joy Royes is an attorney with K&L Gates law firm downtown.

She's also the local spokesperson for the National Association of Black Pride.

Gary Van Horn is president of the Van Horn Group, which owns and operates many local restaurants.

He's also very involved with the Delta Foundation, which raises funds for the annual Pittsburgh Gay pride events.

Betty Hill is executive director of Persad, and she's involved with many local gay community initiatives.

And Darrell Phillips is director of client services for the Pittsburgh Aids Task Force.

Betty, I'd like to start with you in Michael's piece.

You describe a time when Persad was formed when it was almost pathological.

The hatred that came out against the gay community is Pittsburgh, this blue collar town that we sometimes see ourselves as i a backwater compared to New York and Los Angeles.

Is it a good place to be openly gay?

Well, I love Pittsburgh, and I think most gay folks that I know that are in the region came here, love Pittsburgh and find it a wonderful place to live.

We've got lots of wonderful resources.

We have gay people doing good works and and being leaders in the community.

And we have some of the problems that other places have, that you hear about in the nation as well.

What I think is interesting about Pittsburgh is that, when you think about large gay meccas and other places in the country, most people went there to be gay and get away from their families.

And most people.

We saw the story, right?

But people who are gay here are from here.

And so we found a way to integrate our families and our lives a little bit differently in this region.

All right.

Let me turn to joy.

Joy, You're originally from New York.

You've been in Pittsburgh three years.

That's one of the meccas, New York, that Betty was talking about.

How did you find Pittsburgh when you came here?

Three years ago?

For being openly gay.

I came here, primarily for work.

And, my considerations were more about having a family, a partner with two young children and have the same considerations as, straight professionals who are trying to choose someplace to go.

And when I arrived, I foun Pittsburgh to be very welcoming.

There are some issues that are.

Were you surprised?

No, no, no, not so much.

I've heard lots of things about Pittsburgh.

For instance if you go anyplace else and say, you know, you're from New York, you say, Im going to Pittsburgh immediately, theyll go, Pittsburgh.

Why?

But, once I got here, I fell in love with it.

And, we're, we're Pittsburghers now.

Darrell, did you find the same thing to be, as an out-of-towner coming here?

I did, it was.

It was a pleasant surprise, quite honestly, because my experience with Pittsburgh was the Steelers.

And as a Dallas Cowboys fan, having the Steelers, and living in their city was really tough.

So you had to be tough, though.

Fortunately, though, I moved here similar to Joy.

For a particular reason.

My partner was here.

My partner now of 1 years, was living in Pittsburgh, and he had an existing social network.

So we participated in Steel City Volleyball League.

We got involved with Persad, the Pittsburgh Aids Task Force.

And as a result, I'd have to say that I was pleasantly surprised.

Gary, let me change the subject with you.

I know you raised a lot of money for gay events.

Do you find media coverage of, issues within the gay community to be stereotypical sometimes, like gay pride events?

Or are they just showing drag queens and and not talking about serious issues that you're concerned with, just like any other member of the community?

I absolutely agree with that.

What you just said.

We experienced a lot of that.

We took the gay pride events last year to Liberty Avenue, shut down four blocks on Liberty Avenue.

It was kind of interesting.

It was also the closing weekend of the arts festival, and the crossover between those two organizations and the folks that were just walking on and people would ask, what's going on here?

We have a children's activity area, family friendly event, etc.

and it's like, this is gay pride here in Pittsburgh.

And people were like shocked.

Like, okay, there's 20,000 people in Pittsburgh that are gay.

And and they typically.

Were they shocked and rejected you or were they shocked and they went out to participate in the events?

I would say they actually continued to participate because, you know, there was something for everybody there at that point.

So I think there's there is a stereotypical, especially with the media, of going to the extreme and going and there's an extreme in any community, that you can go after.

But I think the the media hasn't been real fair.

And you can see that there are professionals just like in any other type of community when we talk about extremes.

Is gay bullying a problem anyway?

Has anyone noticed it?

Michael Bartley, our managing editor, has done pieces about this.

How gay men have been attacke at bus stops here in Pittsburgh.

Is that a problem, Betty?

Yeah, absolutely it is.

And, you know, there certainly are problems here in Pittsburgh, and bullying is one of those.

If you look, you know, Pennsylvania actually ranks fifth in the nation on hate crimes.

And while, hate crimes related to LGBT issues ranked third, if you look at it from a per capita basis, it actually is the most frequent hate crime in existence.

So bullying is a problem.

And people being afraid to come forth when they have been hurt or or harassed is also a problem.

Because there's ignorance.

And in the police force and in other places where, you're not sure, whether or not you're going to be harassed again by bringing up the issue where I'm really concerned about bullying, though, I have to say is in the school system and toward youth, you anticipated my next question, because you also have been featured in pieces that we've done here.

On that very subject.

What's the the biggest problem is that they're at the age where there are, uncertain about coming out or people have identified with them and suspected and they do name calling, physical harassment.

What?

Yeah, it's all of those things.

You know, it is not okay that our kids are going to school and regularly hearing anti-gay comments or being pushed in stairwells or having, you know, kids will be kids, but, when something happens, adults should intervene.

And unfortunately, far too regularly that does not happen.

And we can do a better job here in our schools.

Let's talk about issues of faith.

And you, if you want to go back to any of the subjects I brought up, feel free to do that.

There is some friction sometimes between the faith community, and, and gays and I wonder, have you found, as a person of faith, if any of you are a place to worship?

How has the religious community accepted you here?

I can speak to that.

I consider myself to be a spiritual person.

As far as finding a place to worship, I've been fortunate enough that I, of the internet, I have the opportunity to be able to get to go to a place of worship online at home on Sundays, which is Macedonia Baptist Church.

What I feel is comfortable taking my partner and being open and going to Macedonia Baptist Church in the Hill District and saying those things.

I'd have to probably say no.

I think that because there's still, even though I'm comfortable in my skin and I'm surround myself with people who are, that I think that there's still a lot of people who aren't as tolerant.

And I choose the word accepting of of our lifestyle Even within the black community?

I would I would venture to say yes.

I don't want to be the spokesperson for that entire community, or the gay community.

But I do want to make sur that I can speak to a place that that I can speak with certainty that there are there are people who are still uncomfortable, in my line of work.

We recently had the center for Disease Control visit Pittsburgh Aids Task Force, and our executive director shared with us an amazing statistic that the 70% of the newl infected people with HIV or Aids actually are infected by the 25% who don't know.

There are a lot of people still on the DL.

There are still a lot of people who are uncomfortable being identified as gay or lesbian, and instead of taking that and owning it, they actually internalize it.

And as a result, it leads to poor decision making.

Is there an argument in the community then, about coming out and owning it, as you said, and being honest about it and getting tested?

I would say yes.

I would say yes.

Because growing up we've actually had the, you know, we've heard a lot of things, whether it was bullying in the school or whether it was bullying within, within your own family.

Speaking from my experience as a gay person who's open and wears it, I think that it's very important that you get to a point that you have to accept it because the poor choices and decisions happen.

Joy, that's absolutely true what he said.

But also there needs to be, a concerted effort in, in the straight community to become more tolerant.

What hasn't made national news media, I think the way that it should is there are at least two 11 year olds who kill themselves because they were bullied.

And part of that taunting was they were being called gay.

Now, whether they were actually gay or not, we don't know.

In regards to the spiritual question, I directly contacted between 7 and 8 churches, prior to come in and said, this is my family, this is our composition.

Let me know what your position is.

So I don't even waste my Sunday or yours.

And what was the response?

Seven of the eight said, don't bother coming.

Is that right?

Yes, but I did receive, one who said God loves you just as you are.

And, you know, Was there an effort to try to change you as there are in some religious circles.

God can heal you.

Absolutely.

But I'm an attorney by profession, so those arguments.

Alright.

I love those.

I live for them since we don't have much time.

But since you're an attorney by profession, let's talk about, gay unions, versus, gay marriage.

Several states have legalized it.

The gay people that I've interviewed before tell me that they are more concerned about rights, about insurance, about inheritance, for their partners, and not so much getting married and walking down the aisle of some Catholic or Baptist church somewhere where the kind of response you may have gotten joy from some of those, churches.

So should it be civil unions or gay marriage?

What do you think?

Don't get me started.

Oh, I want to get you started, go on baby.

Yeah.

No, I absolutely think it has to be marriage.

And here's why.

There are 1143 benefits written into the laws of this country that are tied to the word marriage.

And without giving us marriage, we don't get any of those other benefits.

So you call it civil unions.

And those other 1000 benefits that we're worried about that are the matter of fairness.

I give all rights to churches to decide who can walk down the aisle.

They do that anyway.

If you don't find me suitable to marry, that's a theological thing.

But we've put those things together in argument, and that's not what it is.

This is a civil rights issue.

I need that protection for me and my partner.

Otherwise Its civil unions don't provide all of that protection.

Absolutely.

Darrell.

I can tell you I've actually had a commitment ceremony with my partner and the things that we had to go through in comparison to someone to say, I do better opposite sex couples, it's not the same.

Such as?

I had to draw up m will, my last will and testament I had to be able to do his medical power of attorney.

I had to be able to, sign up to be his beneficiary.

There were expenses in regards to going to a lawyer to be able to draw up these papers that aren't the same for people who are opposite sex couples.

And if we were able to say we were married, which we do believe in saying that we're committed to one another, we wouldn't have we wouldn't have to go through the lawyer to recognize our union.

Joy, what do you say?

Not just that I agree wholeheartedly with, Betty, I don't really care what you call it.

As long as you're able to figure out a way to give us access to those additional thousand.

And so, also, as a parent, my partner pays tuition, does the work, and the whole nine.

My children are not on her benefits.

She cannot leave them.

Her pension or anything like that.

But those are our children.

And so that's an issue.

All right.

This may be a little bit on the edge, but let me put the shoe on the other foot.

Recently at the miss USA pageant, Miss California, said she didn't believe in gay marriage.

One of the judges, Perez Hilton, who was openly gay, is reported to have mocked her down for that.

Do you think she should have been punished by a gay person for her belief?

I don't, I and I actually had the opportunity to watch that.

I think that when you have a 21 year old child standing up in front of millions of people being at suc a politically volatile question, that you have to be prepared for that answer.

And when you do that, that's expected.

Gary?

I'm going to talk about a little bit about marriage.

But before we get to that, even in Allegheny County and outside of the city, we don't even have basic human rights.

You know, you can be discriminated just for being gay in public housing, for public accommodation and employment.

So in the region we have we don't even have those protections we do in the city.

And Amanda Green, actually, there is some legislation I guess you could say, in the county right now, but outside of the city we don't even have those rights, let alone going all the way to marriage at that point.

What's it going to take to get us to that point?

I think a lot of political activism.

I mean, I think, I think the gay community is becoming bigger and out.

I guess you could say, you know, in the 80 and 90s, people didn't come out.

I mean, they were afraid a work, they lose their job, etc.. But I think, as you can see, it's becoming more and more accepting.

But but I don't know if that's true or not.

Anytime one set of groups gets active, the 180 degree set of groups get active against you.

And if you get active pushing for that kind of, legislation, somebody is going to come out and say, oh, no, no, no.

But don't you think accepting, just knowing gay people, I think that people are becoming more sensitized.

I went to see Rent recently.

And the audience, you know, there's a bunch of 14 to 20 year olds and, I mean, that had some pretty racy material.

There's there's HIV and Aids in that.

There's homosexuality in the bohemian lifestyle.

And these are 14 and 15 year olds that it's been around for 15 years.

So these kids weren't even theirs are one and two and they're yelling and screaming about something like that.

So I think it's a generational gap.

Time is just too short.

We only have a minute left.

Anybody.

What do you want to say to to the viewing audience out there?

We'll start with you, Joy I think that what's going to help i Pittsburgh is putting a face on, the gay and lesbian person knowing what's going to help is knowing that the sister, the brother and so forth.

So I think everyone here is committed to creating safe spaces for people to come out.

And as people come out and become empowered, then people just out of love and pure altruism are going to become more tolerant.

20s to you, Betty.

Yeah, I second Joy's motion on that.

Yeah, I agree, I think it's about the face of, individual people knowing each other.

It's not just the gay people, but we all have family members who aren't gay.

And, you guys are nodding innocent, is that right?

Absolutely.

All right We thank you all for being here.

We really appreciate this open and honest discussion.

Michael, back to you.

All right, Chris, thanks so much.

And I want to add my thanks to tonight's panel as well, a very interesting discussion about progress that we will continue to track.

In the meantime for Chris Moore, Dave Crawley, all of us here at OnQ in our live studio audience, I'm Michael Bartley, thanks so much for watching and good night.