>> PAYTON: The Midwest by way of Atlanta, we realize our underdog complex and David Lynch, Jr. That's all today on "Ope or Nope."

♪ Hello and welcome to "Ope or Nope."

Because you tolerated it, we are back with our show within a show, ready to pass judgment on the few and far between touchstones of Midwest pop culture.

More on that in a sec.

But first, I want to welcome back my special guests to your, mine, and let's face it, their surprise, they have decided to rejoin me in the studio.

From WFHB and Cicada Cinema, we have Aja Essex.

And from IU Cinema, we have Michaela Owens.

Thanks so much for coming back.

>> Thank you.

No, seriously thank you for having us.

>> I mean, I'm shocked one of us came back.

>> Look, I no longer have an affiliation with Indiana University.

So the guards -- it was really hard trying to get in here.

The guards were, like, shoving me away.

>> I tried!

>> PAYTON: Much to their delight, we are not here to talk more about the James Corden oeuvre.

♪ Zazz >> PAYTON: But I will say last time you were both here, we could not get enough of "Breaking Away's" authenticity and commitment and reverence for the place that we call home.

But that is done.

That is tired.

That is played out.

We don't want it.

We want the fake and fabricated.

We want the towns that pop culture creators said, hey, we could go anywhere in the world, and you know what, they chose Indiana.

So we are here.

We've got a few different fake pop culture cities that we are going to dive into.

We've watched a few episodes of each, and we are going to pass judgment on how well they do representing the Midwest.

I have some official criteria.

These are tried and true, scientific criteria, and not at all things I wrote down last night at 10 p.m. What details are reminiscent of the places we know and begrudgingly love.

Could we place it on a map?

The main cast is one thing, but how about the neighbors.

Are these the kind of people who unironically use the phrase Midwest nice?

And how likely are its residents to utter the phrase, "Ope, just gonna scooch past ya."

[ Laughter ] >> PAYTON: Are you ready to get into it?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So our first episode of the day is from "Stranger Things," and we are going on a trip to Hawkins, Indiana.

♪ Specifically, the episode we watched was Episode 2 of Season 2, Trick Or Treat, Freak.

I thought it would be great to kind of get into the Halloween spirit and maybe get a sense for where are we in Hawkins, Indiana.

Real quick, what's your past experience with "Stranger Things"?

Are you on the train?

Are you riding, you know, what is it Billy, Teddy, fan fiction, the kid with the slayer vest, whatever -- the really obnoxious one that people on TikTok make songs about.

>> This is my first time watching it.

>> PAYTON: Ever?

>> Ever.

>> So you have zero context.

>> I'm not a big horror person.

>> PAYTON: Okay.

>> And so that's what's kind of kept me away from it.

And also, there's just too much stuff out there for me to always watch -- >> PAYTON: Well, not on Netflix.

On Netflix, it's all curated, and they've just decided what's absolutely the best.

>> Heavily.

>> Well, and then I heard the quality kind of, like, went downhill.

So I was, like, is it even worth my time?

[ Laughter ] If I'm being honest.

>> My history with "Stranger Things" parallels most people's history with "Stranger Things," which is, like, it was, like, this cute, fun show that popped up on Netflix in like 2015.

And everyone was, like -- be like, oh, cool, '80s stuff, like, let's watch it.

And then like most people, I got to the finale and said, well, cool.

I guess if there's a second season, I'll watch it.

And then they took two years, and I had completely lost interest and have not watched anything since.

I've seen memes.

>> PAYTON: And now all the children are paying taxes.

>> Now all the children are paying taxes.

Millie Billy Brown is friends with Drake.

>> A lot's changed since 2017.

>> PAYTON: You can -- you can hear the sirens in the distance.

[ Laughter ] For people who aren't aware, which I didn't think was many people, but apparently they are among us right now.

"Stranger Things" debuted in 2016 on Netflix.

This is the creation of Matt and Ross Duffer.

And I guess the elevator pitch of this show is, you know, hey, remember Steven Spielberg?

He was pretty cool, right?

And now we have a budget to do something big on Netflix with a bit more of a horror vibe.

Before we got into it, I did want to sort of pinpoint, where do they want us to think Hawkins is?

Would you believe me if I told you this was not shot in Indiana?

>> I mean, I do appreciate that it's not just like all cornfields.

Like, there is -- >> PAYTON: Yeah, that's true.

>> -- like texture to it.

>> PAYTON: There's texture.

>> There's a lot more than just what we usually get, I think, with Indiana.

>> PAYTON: Well, there's texture, because it's shot in Atlanta.

>> Great.

Love it.

>> PAYTON: Much like just about everything that you see now, it's shot in a suburb of Atlanta.

Sort of made up to look like it could be anywhere.

When I was doing some background research on, you know, why Indiana?

Why Hawkins?

There wasn't really a rhyme or reason.

It was originally supposed to take place in Long Island, and because of production costs, they decided to scrap that.

They shot it in Atlanta.

And rather than, I guess naming it a place in Atlanta, they decided that, you know, hey, Indiana is the kind of place that could look like anywhere.

In an interview with "Indy Star," why they decided to set it in a fictional city is because Stephen King did it, and they thought that would be cool.

Of course, they thought it'd be cool because Stephen King did it.

>> Love that it's really rooted in something.

>> PAYTON: Yeah, really, you can feel the authenticity.

You can feel the lived in spaces.

I did take some notes on the kinds of landmarks that we have in Hawkins, Indiana.

We have a laboratory, where apparently they make X men.

We have a quarry that we see towards the end of season one.

We have not one but two hospitals; an arcade; a pumpkin patch, which we do see this episode; a massive mall, which comes to play in season three; a steel mill; a lumberyard; and three separate lakes.

And one thing I absolutely love, the devil works hard, but Fan Wiki editors work harder.

On every single shot of a map that we get on the "Stranger Things" wiki, there's a section entitled "issues with this map."

[ Laughter ] Where they tell you all the inconsistencies and reasons why this map could not work.

>> Oh, I always love when a show is, like -- or a movie is set in like a small town, but they manage to cram all of these -- like, I come from a literal small town.

We do not have hospitals.

>> Oh, no.

>> We kind of have a movie theater, kind of not.

Like -- We don't have these things.

>> Yeah, the cobbled together city is my favorite phenomenon.

I love -- I love going from, like, one climate section to, like, a separate climate section, like, it's so much fun.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: I will say too, they pitch Hawkins as this small, middle American town.

It's not small.

>> No.

>> PAYTON: Nothing is walkable.

>> No!

>> Those kids are working their legs on those bikes, Payton!

>> PAYTON: Well, they are apparently almost getting killed, as we saw in this episode.

>> We get probably the most of the town, I would say, at least the residential bits.

There's some other bits in the series where we see the downtown.

There's some -- >> There's a downtown?

>> Yeah, that's how this cannot be a small town Indiana.

There cannot be a downtown.

>> There's just a town.

>> Yes.

>> PAYTON: But only in this episode we see the residential part.

And as far as, you know, the residential section, did this feel like a place that you've been to or a place that you've lived?

>> Not really.

>> Not really.

Once again, it's too cobbled together.

Like, I've been to Indiana cities with like boonies, which there are boonies in this.

I've been to Indiana cities with large high schools.

>> Yeah.

>> I've been to all of these different things, but no, there's no city like this.

>> There's no, like, rich part of town, like where I'm from.

>> Yes.

>> It's all just kind of the same.

>> Yeah, like rich people in small towns tend to just live in houses in different places in town.

>> Up in hills, where they -- >> Yeah, looking down.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: The thesis I came to when watching this episode was -- what really bothered me, there are no suburbs in Hawkins.

>> No.

>> PAYTON: Everything is a major thoroughfare.

Every house has a huge plot of land and massive forest behind it.

There's -- because when I think of the Midwest, I think of, like, where I grew up, where it was, entire sections that were carved out to make cookie-cutter houses and smash as many together as we can, and there's none of that in Hawkins.

And again, I wasn't alive in, you know, presumably 1983, when this is going on.

I think that was -- that was what was weird to me, especially on a Halloween episode, where they are, like, we know what neighborhoods to go to.

What neighborhoods?

>> No.

>> PAYTON: Where letting your children walk -- >> I know one house to go to, it's two miles away, guys.

Let's go.

>> You can go to the church maybe.

They won't give you candy, but you might be able to hang out there on Halloween.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> PAYTON: They might have trunk-or-treat.

>> Okay.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

>> Maybe.

>> Well, can I say something?

>> PAYTON: Yes, I wish you would.

>> I guess.

>> This is a typical Hollywood thing I have found, where if you've never actually -- it's either if you grew up in the Midwest and you left right after high school or you've just never been to the Midwest or you went once or some reason, it kind of -- you just kind of treat it like an amalgam place.

Where it's just like, yeah, there's just like a lot of space, and there's like cornfields and farmers work there, but then there's also like malls and it's quiet and sleepy.

It's like -- that's what "Stranger Things" is.

>> PAYTON: Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> They didn't set it in Long Island, one, as you said because it's expensive; but then two, there's too much character to that.

Like, you can place, like, landmarks and stuff.

It becomes, like, this -- this, like, amalgam place where it becomes what you think the Midwest is because you don't know anything about the Midwest.

>> PAYTON: Mm-hmm.

>> And so, like, honestly, Hawkins just kind of reminds me -- it could be Iowa.

>> Yes.

>> It could be certain parts of Illinois, the state, not Chicago.

It could be some parts of Indiana because it's just the Midwest, and they just chose Indiana because no one was gonna get upset about it.

[ Laughter ] >> Until today!

>> PAYTON: They knew we would be all quietly tolerant, just with this seething rage underneath the surface.

>> That's okay.

We're very Midwest that way.

Just, oh, well, okay.

>> Yeah, it's all right.

>> PAYTON: Love that you can just set your show anywhere.

[ Laughter ] >> I will say, there is one really random thing.

I remember -- I think it was when the first season came out, that one of the characters -- maybe it was Will -- had like a poster in his room of a place called "Ski World," which I grew up knowing about because it's in between Nashville, where I'm from, and Bloomington.

>> PAYTON: No way.

>> It used to be a place where you could literally go skiing.

>> PAYTON: Okay.

>> Because it had like slopes and everything.

And so that impressed me.

I was like, oh, they know Ski World.

>> PAYTON: Point, "Stranger Things."

Okay.

>> All right.

One point.

>> PAYTON: I think my sort of takeaway is that any sort of attention to detail they have works against it because they choose details that don't go together.

Yet they reference Tippecanoe, which apparently is a part of northern Indiana.

And then in the first season, there's a big scene in a quarry which is right near here in south central Indiana.

So it's like, oh, we've got these two possible locations, but they are on completely opposite sides of the map.

I do believe there's some mention that it's about 80 miles from Indianapolis, which doesn't really help at all with Indianapolis being the dead center of the state.

>> Yeah, that's how they can get away with this.

Oh, these Duffer brothers, they're very smart!

[ Laughter ] >> PAYTON: But they seem to have fixed it, because in season four, they just decided we're going to Russia any way.

So don't worry about it too much.

>> They go to Russia in the show?

>> PAYTON: So I think we have given Hawkins about as much thought that was put into it, if not more.

How are we feeling?

Ope or nope on does Hawkins feel like an actual Midwest town?

>> I'm gonna say nope.

>> Very nope.

>> PAYTON: It's an absolute nope for me.

>> Try harder, Duffers!

[ Laughter ] >> Halloween.

>> Sure is.

>> PAYTON: Our second episode that we are covering today is a beloved favorite of mine.

I hope a beloved favorite of yours as well, but that is "Parks and Recreation."

The show is the creation of Greg Daniels and Mike Schur, who previously worked together on the American version of "The Office".

And this follows Leslie Knope and her rag-tag group of city government employees.

And it's -- it's a workplace sit-com, but as far as those go, it's a fantastic workplace sit-com.

Love this show.

So we watched two episodes of this, Season 3, Episode 7, which is the Harvest Festival, and Season 6, Episode 3, the Pawnee Eagleton Tip Off Classic.

The reason I chose these is because in the former, we get a lot of the town.

We get sort of, you know, a lot of the major players, the Perd Hapleys, the Joan Callamezzos.

And then in the second one, we get that sort of Eagleton-Pawnee rivalry.

Eagleton, in the show, is the neighboring town to Pawnee.

They are the rich, stuck-up older sibling.

>> Carmel.

>> Yeah, it's Carmel.

It's Carmel, Indiana.

>> PAYTON: Do we want to get into it?

>> Yeah.

It's Carmel.

>> This is like -- look, I watched this show every week when it came on.

It was the NBC Classic, "Community," this, and "30 Rock," all in a row, loved it.

And as soon as they talk about Eagleton, I'm like, oh, it's clearly supposed to be Carmel.

>> It's Carmel.

>> It's Carmel.

It's northern Indiana.

Like, the least realistic thing about Eagleton is you don't see a billion roundabouts as you drive through it.

[ Laughter ] >> PAYTON: I will say because the city of Pawnee is unabashedly set in south central Indiana.

They make no bones about this is where it is.

They -- they take great pains to say, like, hey, there's neighboring lakes.

Bloomington is this far away.

Indianapolis is this far away and by, you know -- and by direct mention of Bloomington, we can assume it is not here.

I will say, however, when I first moved to Bloomington, I got a lot of people telling me, oh, have you seen Parks and Rec?

We're just like Pawnee.

[ Laughter ] And what I have to say to that is, we are Eagleton at best.

[ Laughter ] We are not the underdog.

>> No.

Absolutely not.

No.

>> PAYTON: We are the stuffy, privileged neighbor.

So there's some discussion online of where it is positioned, that it might be the sister cities of New Albany and Clarksville.

But, yeah, it is without a doubt in this area, and, you know, they do a lot to make sure that you know it.

You know, if you know Upland Brewing Company.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: There's a section on their website to talk about how many times they've been mentioned in "Parks and Recreation."

>> Absolutely, yeah.

Much like Springfield in the Simpsons, I felt a lot of affection for Pawnee.

I mean, I like that -- I like the fact that it does feel like a real small town.

It does feel like the geography in that show makes, like, a lot of sense, like where things are and how things operate, things like that.

And the jokes, like, are pretty accurate.

Like, that's definitely a show that feels like a writer's room of people who grew up either in Indiana or know things about Indiana.

>> PAYTON: Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Or at least did their research in some way.

>> PAYTON: Mm-hmm.

>> Especially given, like, the more unsavory way that residents act sometimes.

>> Yeah.

>> And also, like, the warmth, the -- like the backhanded warmth is what I call it.

>> PAYTON: What a good term.

>> Yeah, backhanded warmth.

As in everyone is pretty nice, but there is like a little bit of that, you know -- >> A little edge.

>> A little edge to it.

And that's not just TV.

That does kind of feel like Indiana a little bit.

>> PAYTON: Yeah, yeah.

>> I will say it does take me a little bit out of it at the very end when it does that, like, huge pull back and you see, like, the entire festival.

>> PAYTON: The Harvest Festival.

And they have a roller coaster with a loop?

>> They have so much!

And it's, like, where did they get this space?

>> I get the idea that it's like Leslie is trying to go all out for this because she wants it to be a success.

>> Yeah, right.

>> But this parks and rec department does not have the budget for this.

>> No.

>> They cannot afford this.

>> They lost me at the end there.

I was, like, wait.

What?

>> What I also appreciate, and maybe this is getting into how does it feel like Indiana-iveness of it all.

Is that I appreciate that Harvest Festival episode for a couple of reasons.

One, Li'l Sebatian is clearly the, like, Lil Bub.

And, like, animal -- in the show, all the way down to a person that was me in college, being like, I just really don't get it.

It's just an adorable cat.

I don't understand why we have a whole restaurant here for this cat.

And then, like, kind of coming around on it before, you know, they passed away.

But, like -- >> Wow, spoiler alert!

[ Laughter ] >> For Lil Bub, who is no longer with us?

I'm so sorry.

Look, if you didn't know Lil Bub was still not alive -- >> PAYTON: This was not the place to find out.

>> This was not the place to find out.

>> I'm gonna need a minute, guys.

>> PAYTON: I do want to note, shot number one of this episode, I was just blown away with how much detail was in the background of all the different posters and flyers and banners, all had Pawnee stuff on it, had unique, you know, little inscriptions that I was just kind of pausing and taking a look at.

You can tell immediately, it's like, oh, they had the time.

They had the interest in putting in, like, making this place feel real.

Granted, a network sit-com, but compared to a show that we just discussed that has three-hour long episodes and a massive special effects budget, it was nice to see that they kind of put their attention where they -- where they knew that it would be most valued.

>> Well, there's also the attention to, like, its history, and that it's not like a good history.

>> No, yeah.

Those were my favorite jokes on the show, whenever they make a joke about how they treat, like, the Native Americans or like poor people in the past.

>> Yeah, and murals to go with it.

>> Like it's all commemorated.

Like, I love it.

I will say that is the only part of the show that both rings true and is, like, a little nasty, is, like, the Native American representation in the show.

>> PAYTON: Yeah.

>> Which, like, walks the line.

>> PAYTON: Yeah.

>> Like, they are making fun -- like, they are making fun of, like, how dumb everyone in the town is, but then also, it's a little icky how flippant they are occasionally about it.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, he's always -- he's always high status, which is why they get away with it.

Like, everyone else is completely -- they have to come to him at the end to, like, clear everything up, which is, like, why the episode gets away with it, which I enjoy.

>> PAYTON: This is an episode where we see a map of Pawnee, which some eagle-eyed spotter has pointed out online that it is a map of the city of Muncie, flipped on its head.

>> Wow!

>> PAYTON: But it also gives us my favorite joke from the episode which is -- >> This is a map of all the atrocities the Pawnee settlers inflected upon the Wamapoke Indians.

The atrocities are in blue.

>> The thing I appreciated about the Eagleton episode is, like, you do get the call outs to Bloomington.

Like they talk about the B-Line at one point, like they mention it and stuff like that.

And to get back on our Carmel, like, tangent, like the just like laissez-faire, like, treatment with money.

>> Yes.

>> Like -- that they, like, display with that, and, like, how everything is just kind of, like, a little too perfect because they have all the money in the world.

Like, that is -- it's like spot on.

It's not as ridiculous as you think it is.

>> I'm so sorry we're late.

I came from our bankruptcy brunch, and Michael Buble played, but he ran a little long.

>> PAYTON: And it is also worth noting that the city hall that we see so often in "Parks and Recreation" is the Pasadena, California, City Hall.

Most of this is shot in California.

>> What?

>> PAYTON: Oh, my gosh!

>> Payton!

>> That's crazy!

That's good set dressings, whatever.

>> PAYTON: Apart from, you know like we said, the few episodes where they go to Indianapolis.

There are a few episodes throughout the series where they do go to some lakes, and it does feel reminiscent of, you know, Lake Lemon or Lake Monroe, to the point where it's like they decided it was going to be set in south central Indiana, and then decided to Google south central Indiana.

>> Yes.

>> PAYTON: Yes.

Can I ask you a question, Payton?

>> PAYTON: I would love that.

>> How do you -- as someone who -- it seems like we've all watched Parks and Rec in some capacity.

>> Yes.

Yep.

>> How do the characters in Parks and Recs -- Parks and Rec feel as Indiana -- I guess not technically all of them are natives, but you know, people who live in Indiana.

>> PAYTON: Yeah, I think there's -- like any show, the characters themselves are turned up to 11, but there is the sort of thing of, like, you've got the local newsperson who has made it.

You know, in the grand scheme of things should not be that competitive about the market they are in.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: But puts everything they have into it, and, like, I've known people like that.

>> Are you Joan Callamezzo?

>> PAYTON: I could be.

>> Are you trying to get us right now?

[ Laughter ] >> Do you wish they had gone somewhere else in Bloomington?

>> PAYTON: Ooh!

>> Do you wish they had, like, actually named checked like a real place to go?

Like, do you want to see them at Nick's?

>> PAYTON: Not really because I feel like then at that point it starts to get kinda sweaty.

I think the B-Line is a nice name drop because it's not a business.

It's not something that, like, oh, they, you know, are making money off of it.

The Upland thing I find a little bit different, which we don't see in these episodes, but we see it a lot in the rest of the series.

I don't mind that as much either because they are more just Easter eggs.

It's not, well, I am relaxing with this nice cold champagne velvet beer from Upland Brewery.

>> Which I'm sure Upland would have loved.

>> PAYTON: They would have loved it!

Are you giving it an ope or a nope?

>> Nope with a K. >> PAYTON: Okay.

>> Wow!

>> That's what I give it.

>> PAYTON: I think we've had a lot of fun here today, and I think it's time to shut this down.

[ Laughter ] >> Ope.

>> Ope.

Yeah, for sure.

>> Of course.

>> Yes.

>> It feels real.

It's also just -- it helps that it's, like, a good show with good jokes constantly.

>> Yes.

>> PAYTON: It's an absolute ope for me.

I love the show.

It just kind of reminded me of I should go back and watch some more of this, of, like, this is a good comfort show.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: You heard it here first, "Parks and Recs," good show.

>> Good show.

First person to ever say it.

>> We're gonna be really brave tonight.

>> You really are like Joan Callamezzo.

You are really breaking this.

>> PAYTON: Breaking barriers.

Never been done before.

Not afraid to reference or not reference.

>> You blew it.

Super hard.

Complete buffoonery.

>> PAYTON: So the last show that we are talking about today was new to me.

I don't know if it was new to you as well.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: But it is "Eerie, Indiana".

This was a show that originally debuted in 1991 on NBC, but then got syndicated later to the Disney Channel, and then finally found a home on Fox Kids on that Saturday morning block, where, you know, normally they've got cartoons, but this was a huge hit for them.

But this show was entirely new to me.

Had either of you heard of "Eerie, Indiana"?

Had you experienced it before?

>> No, and it was kind of wild.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> It's just, what?

>> It was wild.

If I had heard about, it was one of those things of, like, I was doing a Wikipedia deep dive ten years ago and it probably came up.

To quote fellow Cicada Cinema volunteer Josh Brewer when I had told him I was gonna be on this episode, and was like, oh, yeah, we're watching a show, "Eerie Indiana."

And he was like -- he's, like, your favorite show, right?

And I was, like, no.

He's, like, you've never seen "Eerie, Indiana"?

That would have been little Aja's favorite show of all time.

And I got to say, Josh, you were right.

>> PAYTON: Did he nail it?

>> He nailed it.

[ Laughter ] >> To quote IU Cinema Director Dr. Alicia Kozma, this is "X Files" for kids.

>> PAYTON: If you were like us and had not heard of "Eerie, Indiana" before, it is essentially, you know, "X Files" meets "Twin Peaks" meets -- >> Film noir.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: Yeah, film noir, and then meets Saturday morning cartoon.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: Like, it is by no stretch of the imagination a show for kids and families.

And to the point where some of it was, like, a little goose bumpy.

Where it's, like, woo, if I were like 8 years watching this, I'd be, like, I'm getting away with something.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: But it's -- what did you think about the show?

I had so much fun watching this.

>> It was kind of like a time capsule because it looked like so many of the shows I grew up watching, but I had never seen this before.

I'd never heard of it.

So it was kind of bizarre looking at it that way.

And then just to know that stars, like, Omri Katz from "Hocus Pocus," which I literally don't know him from anything else, I'm sorry to say.

>> PAYTON: He didn't have a huge career after this.

I'm sorry.

Sorry, Omri.

>> Okay.

Makes me feel better, but -- Yeah, it was -- it was kind of wild.

>> First reaction upon watching this show, I see the big D, Joe Dante as director come up.

I know I'm gonna be in good hands.

You should insert a Joe Dante fan cam here.

♪ But then, like, watching it, it's, like, oh, that's so -- it's so much him, where it is that zany mad cap Saturday morning cartoon thing, like -- like, super exaggerated, like very moody, all that stuff.

And just like I love how millennial creepypasta is, or it's like, what if, like, a lady came to your town that was like a Tupperware lady, but then she was, like, secretly immortal because she's sleeping in giant Tupperware with all of her friends from different parts of the late 20th century, and her two creepy twin boys.

>> Oh, my, I had so many questions about those boys.

I was like, what?

What?

>> I love that you had us watch the first episode and the last episode of the first season.

>> PAYTON: Yeah.

>> And they're connected!

>> Because they're connected because they give the callback.

They're, like, oh, these twins, like, went on to, like, have a -- >> They are movie critics.

>> Yeah, they become movie critics.

>> So, like, my first reaction to watching it, I was, like, this is a perfect show for kids in the '90s.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Because, as you said, it's kind of like a "Twin Peaks," like this small town, weird things go on here.

So it's probably, like, you know, a kid being like my parents won't let me watch "Twin Peaks," but I can watch this.

>> PAYTON: I'm planning on watching more of this.

>> Oh, I'm gonna watch the whole thing, like, I'm so excited.

>> PAYTON: It ran for one season.

There are, I believe, 19 episodes of it.

You mentioned John Dante, who was creative consultant and directed the pilot.

It was created by Jose Rivera and Karl Schaefer, both of whom make an appearance in the second episode we watched.

The two episodes we chose, I chose the pilot and I chose Reality Takes a Holiday, which I don't believe aired last, but it is listed last -- >> Yes.

>> PAYTON -- where we streamed it.

The first episode is the pilot in which Marshall and his family move to Eerie, Indiana, where they start to realize some strange things are happening.

And at that point, he's already essentially set up like a little detective agency with his friend Simon.

>> He's just a kid.

>> PAYTON: Yeah, who's just a kid.

Not like the 12-year-old.

But apparently either out of their attic or a steel mill.

Marshall follows this woman who is going door-to-door essentially selling Tupperware, but it's not Tupperware, it's ForeverWare.

And the ForeverWare is not only used to seal food.

It's used to seal people!

>> I know!

I, like, put it together moments before she tucks her twins into bed.

I was, like -- are they -- are they literally sealing -- they are going to stay alive forever because it's giant Tupperware?

And it just delighted me to know -- like, that's how I knew this show was good.

[ Laughter ] >> PAYTON: You're, like, oh, we're working with something.

>> Yeah.

>> PAYTON: The second episode we watched, Reality Takes a Holiday, Marshall is sitting with his family and Simon at lunch, and they're about to go see a movie, and Marshall declines.

But when he walks outside in his mailbox, he finds a script for a show called "Eerie, Indiana".

And it's sort of at that point that reality starts falling apart.

He realizes he's on a TV set.

[ Buzzer ] >> Cut, cut, cut.

Don't print that one.

Everybody back to the top for take 13.

>> PAYTON: And it's wild!

It is a wild turn.

>> Joe Dante is there.

>> Joe Dante is there.

You get a double dose of the Dante.

[ Laughter ] >> PAYTON: For a show that, like, is already pretty strange and leans into that, it was really nice -- granted, this was the second episode we all watched, but it was really nice to see it like, oh, we're going for it.

We're, like, got one season of this show.

We are not going to leave anything on the table.

>> No.

>> PAYTON: Lovely to see.

>> Yeah, and it was also kind of wild, because again, if you only know Omri Katz from "Hocus Pocus," in that second episode, the person who plays Dash X, Jason Marsden.

>> PAYTON: Also in "Hocus Pocus"?

>> He doesn't -- doesn't he do the voice of Binx the cat?

>> He's Binx the cat in "Hocus Pocus"?

>> PAYTON: We don't really ever find out who Dash X is.

>> Well, is he in more -- did anyone do any research -- >> PAYTON: That's a question for us.

>> -- is he in more episodes of the show, and we just watched the two because he just shows up.

>> You will start a Kickstarter for more seasons.

>> Oh, my God, I would love it so much.

Look, I am so anti-nostalgia reboot or whatever, but this got one season.

I would kill for a -- like, let's just do "Eerie, Indiana" again.

You know, I think every kid when you watch television growing up, because it's just unfiltered -- it's like unfiltered coming into your brain and you, like, have no context for things.

That's probably one of those episodes kids, who are now like in their 30s, talk about.

Like, the strangest episode of television they've ever seen because any time you go meta for anything it's going to, like, leave an impression on you.

>> PAYTON: Right.

>> But I did enjoy the, like, monster of the weekiness of the first episode.

>> PAYTON: Oh, yeah.

>> Like, it got me really excited to see, like, are we gonna meet the Elvis -- like, Elvis there?

Is the Bigfoot actually gonna show up, which it seems like Bigfoot does actually show up in an episode at some point.

I don't know.

>> PAYTON: I will confess, as far as trying to nail down where Eerie, Indiana is, the second episode, terrible choice.

[ Laughter ] >> Awful choice for that.

Great episode.

>> PAYTON: They completely do away with any of the town, but the first does give us some, especially in what I assume was shot for the pilot, with that kind of cold open.

>> Eerie, Indiana.

My home, sweet home.

>> The marching basketball players.

That was a nice little touch.

That intro really does nail the sort of Midwest feeling.

The rest of it does kind of also feel like the set that they use for WandaVision.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah, like, it is -- I mean, it's just the suburbs.

>> The suburbs that "Stranger Things" doesn't have.

>> PAYTON: Yeah.

[ Laughter ] As far as, you know, people and place, did you really get a sense for Eerie, or do you think, you know, flip that on its head, does that help the show by not really feeling like a real place?

>> As I said earlier, though, I was, like, this just kind of feels like it could be any suburb in any, like -- any Midwest city, and not even technically any Midwest city.

It could just be a suburb of almost anywhere.

>> That's kind of my thing.

Is I'm not even sure this reads Midwest to me.

This just feels like a Connecticut suburb or something.

>> PAYTON: Hmm, okay.

>> It doesn't really read Midwest in the episodes we watched at least.

>> PAYTON: Yeah.

>> It does have that thing, though, where this is, like, Indiana being the butt of the joke, which is just, like, well, after you move from the East Coast, where did you end up?

Ugh, I ended up in Indiana.

[ Laughter ] >> Yeah, that's so true.

That is true.

>> That feels like that's the whole -- >> It's the less glamorous option that you can go with, yeah.

>> And Indiana is always a good punch line of, like, oh, where did they go?

Indiana.

>> PAYTON: What is a relocation destination that will disappoint your children?

[ Laughter ] >> It's like it's really -- it does feel like a corn -- a coin flip between, like, Indiana or Iowa.

Like, those are your two, like, you are kind of disappointed about where you are about to end up.

>> PAYTON: Was you almost saying corn flip?

Was that a Freudian slip?

[ Laughter ] Final thoughts on "Eerie, Indiana".

I personally, I will give the town of Eerie a nope, but the show a big old ope.

>> That's exactly what I was gonna say.

>> Yeah, on the same page.

>> PAYTON: This was so much fun.

>> And perfect for Halloween.

>> PAYTON: Yes.

Of these three cities, I mean it sounds like Pawnee is definitely the one that did the most research.

>> Yes.

>> PAYTON: But as far as the other two go, I would still put Eerie over Hawkins, just because "Eerie, Indiana," has not stuck around long enough to disappoint me in the way that "Stranger Things" has.

>> You haven't been stabbed by it.

>> Yeah, you haven't been stabbed.

>> PAYTON: I haven't had to sit through a three-plus hour esipode of "Eerie, Indiana."

Which they all just kinda yell at each other in separate rooms.

>> Also, I like -- if we're talking about the meta of living in these places, I prefer to live in, like, the city where it's like a strange thing happens every week, but I'm not gonna die.

>> PAYTON: No.

True!

>> Where it's like in "Stranger Things," it's, like, I may actually be murdered by a monster.

>> PAYTON: That seems to be the prevailing thing on the Stranger Things Fan Wiki, is why do people still live here?

It's the Gotham problem of, you know you could move, right?

>> Nobody believes me, but this is the center of weirdness for the entire planet.

>> Thank you, little paperboy.

>> PAYTON: So there you have it, the not-so-definitive ranking to fake Indiana cities.

Thanks for watching, and I'll see you next time.