>> ORGANIZATION DAY HAS EYES TURNING TOWARDS THE 2022 SESSION.

DEBATES ON TAX CUTS AND VACCINE MANDATES.

PLUS, MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION AND MORE ON INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING NOVEMBER >> "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS AND BY ICEMILLER, A FULL SERVICE LAW FIRM COMMITTED TO HELPING CLIENTS BUILD, GROW AND PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.

MORE AT ICEMILLER.COM.

>> THIS WEEK, THERE WILL BE DEBATE IN INDIANA'S 2022 LEGISLATIVE SESSION OVER CUTTING TAXES.

BUT AT THIS POINT, THE TWO REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES DON'T SEEM TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE ON THAT ISSUE.

INDIANA HAS RECENTLY EXPERIENCED UNPRECEDENTED REVENUE LEVELS.

AND THAT HAS SOME REPUBLICANS EXPLORING WAYS TO SEND MONEY BACK TO HOOSIERS VIA TAX CUTS.

HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON SAYS HE'S LOOKING AT THE INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX AND THE BUSINESS PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX.

>> IT WOULD HELP A TON OF THE SMALL AND MEDIUM-SIZED BUSINESSES IN INDIANA AND I THINK IT'S EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

I THINK IT'S THE LAST BAD BUSINESS TAX THAT WE HAVE.

>> BUT HUSTON'S PROPOSED CHANGE TO THE BUSINESS PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX ALONE WOULD COST AROUND $300 MILLION.

AND REPUBLICAN SENATOR MARK MESSMER SAYS HIS CAUCUS IS INCLINED TO WAIT UNTIL 2023 TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF DECISIONS.

>> WHEN THAT FEDERAL STIMULUS MONEY DRIES UP, AT THIS POINT I DON'T THINK WE CAN ACCURATELY PREDICT WHERE THOSE TAX REVENUES WILL SETTLE OUT.

>> THE SESSION GETS UNDERWAY IN JANUARY.

SHOULD LAWMAKERS CUT TAXES IN THE 2022 SESSION?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL: DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES, OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE REPORTER BRANDON SMITH.

MIKE O'BRIEN, IS NOW THE TIME TO REDUCE TAXES?

>> IT'S THE RIGHT CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

I THINK BOTH SPEAKER HUSTON AND MAJORITY LEADER MESSMER BRING UP GOOD POINTS, AND THERE COULD BE ON BOTH SIDES.

ONE ON PRUDENT REPUBLICANS, FROM THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS FOCUSED ON WE'VE GOT A RECORD LEVEL OF REVENUE, UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR THAT, AND TRY TO GIVE SOME OF THAT MONEY BACK TO INVESTMENT BUSINESS.

THE BUSINESS PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX HAS LONG BEEN A TARGET FOR LAWMAKERS.

IT'S EVENTUALLY A PRETTY PUNITIVE TAX.

YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES FOREVER ON DEPRECIATED ASSETS FOR SMALL AND MEDIUM SIZED BUSINESSES.

THERE'S A LOCAL REVENUE PIECE OF THAT, BUT THAT THEY HAVE TO FIGE OUT SO THE LOCALS AREN'T OVERLY HARMED.

ON THE INCOME TAX SIDE, YOU CAN SEE A SCENARIO WHERE THE SENATE REPUBLICANS AND HOUSE REPUBLICANS COME TO SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT WHERE EVERYONE KIND OF GETS WHAT THEY WANT.

YOU MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENT TO BUSINESS PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX BUT THEN YOU ALSO MAYBE LOOK AHEAD TO 2023 AND SEE HOW DURABLE THESE TAX REVENUES ARE, ONCE PEOPLE HAVE KIND OF SPENT THROUGH ENHANCED UNEMPLOYMENT, THEY'VE SPENT THROUGH ROUND AFTER ROUND OF FEDERAL STIMULUS AND PUMPED THAT INTO THE ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT BENEFITS FROM INFLATION, RIGHT, WE KNOW THAT FROM THE HIGHER PRICE OF GOODS AS A PERCENT OF SALES TAX REVENUE.

SO I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT AND I THINK THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE SPENT ALL SUMMER TRYING TO BE THOUGHTFUL AND SMART ABOUT WHERE TO CUT TAXES.

AND WE'VE ALWAYS PROVEN AS REPUBLICANS IN THE STATEHOUSE THAT WE ARE FOCUSED ON A BALANCED BUDGET, NOT CREATE A FISCAL CLIFF, NOT INCREASING SPENDING WHEN TIMES ARE GOOD, SO YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A BAD SPOT DOWN THE LINE.

>> ANN DELANEY, IS NOW THE TIME TO CUT TAXES?

>> WHAT'S REALLY SAD ABOUT THIS IS THAT'S THE ONLY REPUBLICAN PLAY BOOK.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER IDEA.

WE HAVE THE FEDERAL STIMULUS MONEY THAT SHOULD BE PUMPING IN TO THE ECONOMY.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT THIS STATE DESPERATELY NEEDS TO DO.

WE NEED TO HAVE PRE-K, WE NEED TO HAVE KINDERGARTEN, WE NEED TO PAY THE TEACHERS ADEQUATELY, WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE NUMBER OF SPECIAL EDUCATION TEACHERS AND TEACHERS IN GENERAL THAT WE NEED.

OUR UNIVERSITIES ARE SUFFERING IN LARGE PART AND THEIR IDEA IS CUT TAXES.

IT'S THE SAME PLAY BOOK OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

MIKE PENCE INSISTED ON CUTTING THE INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX.

NOBODY EVEN FELT IT.

IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE TO THE INDIVIDUAL HOOSIERS.

MAYBE A LUNCH OUT AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.

AND INSTEAD, THE REVENUE TO THE STATE, WHICH COULD ACCOMPLISH SOME OF THESE THINGS, GOES DOWN EVERY TIME.

I MEAN, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A BUSINESS-FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT, AND IT ALREADY IS.

AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE TO WANT TO COME HERE TO LIVE, AND TO DO THAT, WE NEED TO MAKE INVESTMENTS IN THE FUTURE.

AND THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICANS JUST CAN'T SEEM TO BRING THEMSELVES TO DO.

THEY HAVE SUPERMAJORITIES AND THEY HAVE MONEY.

NOW IS THE TIME TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THE STATE AND WANT PEOPLE TO COME HERE TO LIVE AND MAKE THE FUTURE BRIGHTER FOR OUR CHILDREN.

AND THEY'RE COMPLETELY DEVOID OF IDEAS.

>> NIKI KELLY, YOU AND I TALKED TO THE GOVERNOR ABOUT THIS IDEA, NOT ANYTHING TOO SPECIFIC BUT THE IDEA OF TAX CUTS IN RECENT DAYS.

WHAT DID HE HAVE TO SAY?

>> HE BASICALLY SAID WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, AND HE EXPECTS THERE TO BE A SERIOUS DISCUSSION, BUT HE WASN'T FOR OR AGAINST.

HE SAID ON ONE HAND IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING, BUT ALSO WE'RE NOT SURE SORT OF IF THIS IS LONG TERM MONEY OR IF WE'RE JUST SEEING A SHORT-TERM, YOU KNOW, BENEFIT FROM ALL THE FEDERAL MONEY.

I SPOKE TO SEVERAL ECONOMISTS FOR A STORY I DID A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, AND THEY BOTH SAID THAT IT'S TOO EARLY TO BE DECIDING THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S ONE THING TO UNEXPECTEDLY HIT THE TAXPAYER REFUND ONE YEAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK TWO YEARS IN A ROW MIGHT SHOW THAT IT'S A LONG TERM INCREASE IN TAX REVENUE VERSUS JUST A WEIRD FALLOUT OVER THE PANDEMIC.

>> THAT WAS KIND OF WHAT SENATOR MESSMER POINTED TO TOO.

HE PREFERRED TO SEE IF WE HIT THE TAXPAYER REFUND AGAIN IN 2022, AND THEN HAVE THE MORE WHOLESALE DISCUSSION IN 2023.

BUT JON SCHWANTES, TODD HUSTON HAS BROUGHT UP, HEY, I WANT TO CUT TAXES LIKE PRETTY MUCH NOW.

HOW HARD IS IT THEN FOR THE OTHER CHAMBER OR ANYONE ELSE TO SAY, IN AN ELECTION YEAR, WELL, MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT A LITTLE LONGER?

>> WELL, NOT SURPRISING THAT TODD HUSTON WOULD TAKE A PRO-TAX CUT POSITION.

I THINK ANN IS RIGHT.

CERTAINLY THE REPUBLICAN AGENDA IS BROADER, I THINK ANN WOULD CONCEDE, THAN SIMPLY CUTTING TAXES BUT THAT IS A MAJOR AT THE NET TENETOF EVERY PLAY BOOK ANDY WITH THE COFFERS ARE FULL, IT'S POLITICALLY APPEALING, BUT YOU LOOK AT THAT STANCE AND YOU JUXTAPOSE IT WITH SOME OF THE RHETORIC AND SOME OF THE ACTIONS THAT REPUBLICANS IN BOTH CHAMBERS AND THE HOUSE NOTABLY TOOK LAST SESSION.

THERE WAS ALWAYS CONCERN ABOUT ONE TIME SOURCES OF REVENUE.

WE CAN'T REALLY FUND TEACHER SALARIES, WE CAN'T DO THIS LONG TERM BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

WELL, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE INFUSION OF CASH THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PANDEMIC AND THE UNPRECEDENTED FEDERAL RELIEF IS SOMETHING OF A ONE OFF AS WELL.

AND SEEING AS EVERYTHING ABOUT THE PANDEMIC WAS LARGELY UNPRECEDENTED, AND WE'RE CONTINUING TO SORT OF MAKE OUR WAY THROUGH THIS AS A SOCIETY, PERHAPS TAKING A DEEP BREATH AND WAITING TO SEE WHETHER SOME OF THESE INCREASES ARE, IN FACT, PERMANENT, I SHOULD HAVE TO SAY REVENUE INCREASES ARE PERMANENT OR WHETHER THAT IS SOME SORT OF ABERRATION RELATED TO WHO KNOWS WHAT, I MEAN, WE LIVE IN SORT OF A TIME OF UNCERTAINTY AND CASES OF FIRST IMPRESSION, IF YOU WILL.

SO I THINK IN THE END, WHILE THERE CERTAINLY WILL BE A LOT OF APPEAL TO THE NOTION OF TALKING ABOUT CUTS, I THINK IN THE END PROBABLY ANY KIND OF SIGNIFICANT CUT WOULD WAIT UNTIL A BUDGET YEAR.

>> ALL RIGHT.

TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC, ONLINE POLL QUESTION IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR ICEMILLER E-MAIL AND TEXT ALERTS.

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: SHOULD INDIANA LAWMAKERS CUT TAXES DURING THE 2022 SESSION?

A, YES, OR B, NO.

LASES WEEK WE ASKED YOU IF IT WILL MATTER TO MOST VOTERS THAT INDIANA REPUBLICANS VOTED AGAINST THE FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

JUST 42% OF YOU SAY YES, 58% SAY NO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL, GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

AT HE END OF THE LAST STORY I SAID LAWMAKERS WILL MEET IN JANUARY AND THAT'S ALMOST ALWAYS TRUE EXCEPT THAT THEY MIGHT COME BACK INTO SESSION AHEAD OF SCHEDULE THIS YEAR TO HELP GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB END THE STATE'S PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

HOLCOMB SAYS HE NEEDS THREE CHANGES TO STATE LAW IN ORDER TO END THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY BUT NOT LOSE KEY BENEFITS FOR HOOSIERS: MEASURES TO KEEP ENHANCED FEDERAL BENEFITS FOR FOOD ASSISTANCE AND MATCHING FUNDS FOR MEDICAID, AND ALLOW THE STATE TO MORE EFFICIENTLY GET 5 TO 11-YEAR-OLDS VACCINATED.

HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON SAYS THERE'S GENERAL AGREEMENT ABOUT MAKING THOSE CHANGES.

>> WE'RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THOSE THINGS AND WHETHER THEY WOULD BE THOSE THREE OR MAYBE EVEN POTENTIALLY A LITTLE MORE.

>> AND HUSTON SAYS THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT COME IN FOR A DAY IN DECEMBER TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, SO THAT THE GOVERNOR CAN END THE PUBLIC EMERGENCY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> I THINK IT'S MORE SYMBOLIC THAN A PIECE OF PAPER.

I THINK A LOT OF US FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T NORMALLY BEGIN ITS WORK UNTIL JANUARY.

ANN DELANEY, IS THIS A REASONABLE PLAN TO END THE GOVERNMENT'S PUBLIC EMERGENCY?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY NEXT YEAR.

THIS IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING, I KNOW WE HAVE SURGES AND WE HAVE EBBS AND WE HAVE SURGES, BUT NATIONALLY, THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES WENT UP 33% IN THE LAST 14 DAYS.

HERE, IT WENT UP 68%.

NATIONALLY, 59% OF THE PEOPLE HAVE FULLY -- BEEN FULLY VACCINATED.

HERE IS 50%.

YOU WANT TO END THE EMERGENCY, WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE TALKING ABOUT IS SETTING A GOAL.

WHEN WE GET TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE OF PEOPLE FULLY VACCINATED, WE CAN END THE EMERGENCY.

BUT WE DON'T DO THAT.

SO THIS IS ALL ABOUT PLAYING TO THE RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS WHO DON'T LIKE MASKS, THINK COVID IS SOME KIND OF A HOAX, THINK THAT NOBODY IS DYING FROM IT AND IT'S ALL MADE UP, AND SO, THEREFORE, THERESHOULD BE NO RESTRAINTS ON FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT AND ASSOCIATION.

AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, OF COURSE, THAT THOSE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING OUT AND INFECTING OTHER PEOPLE, AND INFECTING EVEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMPLIED WITH THE REQUIREMENTS AND GOTTEN FULLY VACCINATED.

IF WE WANT TO END IT IN A SENSIBLE, HEALTHY WAY, IT SEEMS TO ME, YOU SET A TARGET, AND THE TARGET IS, WHATEVER THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS FOR FULLY VACCINATED, AND THEN WE END THE EMERGENCY, AND THAT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO ME THAN THE REST OF THIS NONSENSE THAT GOES ON BECAUSE OF THE REPUBLICAN RIGHT WING AND THEIR PRIMARIES.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, WE HAD CONVERSATIONS SIMILAR TO THIS PARTICULARLY LAST YEAR, WHEN GOVERNOR HOLCOMB STARTED ROLLING BACK THE RESTRICTIONS AND THE GUIDELINES THAT HE HAD PUT INTO PLACE ON A STATE-WIDE LEVEL, WHICH IS ARE YOU SENDING A TROUBLING MESSAGE TO PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SEE YOU END THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY AND GO, OH, WELL, I REALLY DON'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE ANY PRECAUTIONS WHATSOEVER.

IS THERE THAT SAME SORT OF RISK NOW, IF AND WHEN THE GOVERNOR DOES THIS?

>> WHEN HE DID IT LAST YEAR, THERE WAS AN ECONOMIC REASON TO DO IT.

IT WAS ON THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU CAN'T KEEP THIS CLOSED DOWN FOREVER WITHOUT COMPLETELY SUFFOCATING AND KILLING A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESS THAT WASN'T ALLOWED TO OPERATE WHEN THE FULL SHUTDOWN WAS IN EFFECT.

SO THERE WAS A TANGIBLE MEASURABLE IMPACT FOR THAT ECONOMICALLY.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, WHETHER OR NOT HE SHOULD END THE EMERGENCY, AND WE STRUGGLED TO POINT OUT AN EXAMPLE OF HOW ANYONE'S LIFE WOULD BE CHANGED, THAT MOST OF THE TERMS OF THE EMERGENCY ORDER WERE HOW GOVERNMENTS AT DIFFERENT LEVELS COORDINATE WITH ONE ANOTHER, HOW ENHANCED FUNDING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FLOWS, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING IN TO MAKE SURE IS PRESERVED AND PROTECTED.

FRANKLY, THERE IS A PEAK OF WHO'S WILLING TO GET VACCINATED, AND THERE IS A REACTION IN A STATE LIKE INDIANA THAT TENDS TO BE CONSERVATIVE WITH PEOPLE WHO TEND TO NOT LIKE TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO BY THE GOVERNMENT, THAT IF YOU END IT, THERE ISN'T THAT KIND OF KNEE JERK, YOU KNOW, PUSHBACK.

SO MAYBE WE SEE IT IN A POST EMERGENCY ORDER WORLD WHERE THE WORLD JUST GOES BACK TO NORMAL, WE PRESERVE THESE ENHANCED FUNDINGS, MEDICAID, FOOD PROGRAM, AND OTHER THINGS THAT ARE HELPING PEOPLE, THAT COMMON SENSE PREVAILS AND THEY GO, WE SEE VACCINATION RATES ACTUALLY INCREASE.

AMONG PEOPLE THAT WOULD NEVER OAR WISE DO IT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT IS TELLING THEM TO DO IT.

>> JON SCHWANTES, SORT OF TO THE POINT MIKE O'BRIEN WAS JUST RAISING, AS LONG AS THE LEGISLATURE MAKES THESE CHANGES THAT THE GOVERNOR IS PROPOSING TO KEEP THESE THREE THINGS THAT HE FEELS ARE WORTH KEEPING, IS THE AVERAGE HOOSIER GOING TO NOTICE IF AND WHEN THIS PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY IS OVER?

>> NOT BECAUSE OF ANY SIGNIFICANT OR MEATY ACTIONS THAT THE GOVERNOR WOULD BE TAKING.

AS ALREADY HAS BEEN NOTED IN THIS CONVERSATION, MOST OF THE SIGNIFICANT SUBSTANTIAL MEASURES THAT WOULD IMPACT HOOSIERS' DAILY LIVES, THAT'S ALREADY OUT THE WINDOW.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THEY WOULD NOTICE BECAUSE OF THE SORT OF SYMBOLISM, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HAVING THE GOVERNOR STAND UP THERE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE'RE DONE, WE'RE BACK TO NORMAL, OR AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THE OFFICIAL OPINION IS OF THE STATE OF INDIANA.

SO THEY WOULD NOTICE IT FOR REASONS OF SYMBOLISM BUT NOT NECESSARILY FOR REASONS THAT WOULD HAVE ANY BOTTOM-LINE IMPACT.

I'M A LITTLE INTRIGUED BY THE NOTION, THOUGH, THAT MORE PEOPLE MIGHT GET THE VACCINE IF IT'S VOLUNTARY.

I JUST HAVE A NEW VISION FOR -- AS LONG AS WE'RE GOING TO ROLL BACK TAXES, IF WE MAKE ALL THE TAXES VOLUNTRY -- >> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> -- WE WOULD HAVE REVENUE OUT THE YING YANG.

SO I THINK I'VE SEEN THE FUTURE.

>> YOU KNOW, LET'S NOT RULE ANYTHING OUT, I SUPPOSE.

NIKI KELLY, WE HEARD A QUOTE, KIND OF SOMETHING TO THE POINT THAT JOHN JUST MADE.

WE HEARD A QUOTE FROM TODD HUSTON ON THE PACKAGE IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION YOU ASKED HIM AND I'M GOING TO BASICALLY ASK YOU THE QUESTION YOU ASKED TODD HUSTON WHICH IS, WHAT IS THE RUSH ON THIS?

>> WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN -- AND DECEMBER VERSUS BACK IN JANUARY.

SO THEY WOULD BE GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE A POINT, TO COME BACK IN DECEMBER AND DO THIS.

AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THE FEAR BEHIND THAT IS SORT OF THE MISSION ACCOMPLISHED MOMENT, ARE WE SENDING THAT MESSAGE TO HOOSIERS.

BUT THEY SEEM TO THINK THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR INDIANA TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> THE MISSION ACCOMPLISHED THING WORKED WELL.

>> IT'S A GREAT -- LET'S HOPE THEY DON'T HAVE A BANNER.

REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE LEADERS DON'T SOUND READY TO BAN INDIANA COMPANIES FROM IMPOSING COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATES.

BUT THE ISSUE IS NOT GOING TO BE LEFT ALONE IN THE 2022 SESSION EITHER.

EVEN BEFORE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S COVID VACCINE RULES, MANY HOOSIER COMPANIES REQUIRED THEIR WORKERS TO GET VACCINATED.

AND THAT PROMPTED PUSHBACK FROM SOME IN THE LEGISLATURE.

SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER GREG TAYLOR SAYS LAWMAKERS SHOULDN'T DO ANYTHING TO STOP COMPANIES FROM REQUIRING VACCINES.

>> EMPLOYERS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY NOT JUST TO THEIR EMPLOYEES BUT TO THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, IN MY MIND.

>> HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON SAYS HE PERSONALLY PREFERS TO LET PRIVATE BUSINESSES DECIDE.

>> I'D ALSO SAY I THINK EMPLOYERS NEED TO BE CAUTIOUS IN HOW THEY HONOR RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS, MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS.

>> HUSTON SAYS LAWMAKERS WILL EXPLORE EXPANDING THE REASONS EMPLOYEES CAN BE EXEMPTED FROM VACCINE MANDATES.

NIKI KELLY FOR THE SECOND TOPIC IN A ROW, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED TODD HUSTON EARLIER THIS WEEK, WHICH IS -- >> GOOD QUESTIONS!

>> YOU CLEARLY DO.

CAN YOU EXPAND THE EXEMPTIONS UNDER STATE LAW TO GETTING A VACCINE WITHOUT FUNCTIONALLY ELIMINATING ANY MANDATE WHATSOEVER?

>> YEAH, THAT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH.

I MEAN, THERE WAS A BILL LAST YEAR BROUGHT BY SENATOR DENNIS CRUZ THAT WOULD ALLOW WHAT THEY CALL THE PERSONAL BELIEFS OR CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION, IT APPLIED TO ALL VACCINES, NOT JUST COVID, AND DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE.

BUT I THINK IF YOU SAY FOR WHATEVER REASON ANYONE CAN OPT OUT, I'M NOT REALLY SURE THAT'S A MANDATE ANYMORE.

AT LEAST WITH A MEDICAL EXEMPTION, YOU GET A NOTE FROM YOUR DOCTOR THAT SAYS WHY YOU CAN'T TAKE THAT VACCINE, YOU KNOW?

THERE ARE WAYS TO PROVE YOUR SINCERELY HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, AND THOSE ARE USED FOR ALL VACCINES, BUT OPENING THIS UP TO A BROAD-BASED, YOU KNOW, CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION, I THINK WOULD DEFINITELY LIMIT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF ANY MANDATE.

>> JON SCHWANTES, I'M NOT GOING TO DOWNPLAY THAT SOME LAWMAKERS ARE VERY ANGRY AT ANY COMPANY THAT IMPOSES A COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATE ON ITS WORKERS, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF ANGER OVER A VACCINE MANDATE IS ONE THAT THE STATE GOVERNMENT OR AT LEAST THE STATE LEGISLATURE REALLY HAS NO POWER TO EFFECT, WHICH IS PRESIDENT BIDEN'S VACCINE POLICIES FOR EMPLOYERS OF AT LEAST 100 EMPLOYEES OR MORE, AND SO TO THAT POINT, ARE THEY GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T ULTIMATELY GET TO THE THING THEY'RE MOST ANGRY ABOUT?

>> THAT WASN'T NIKI'S QUESTION, WAS IT?

OKAY.

>> NO, MINE WAWS MUCH MORE WAS E COMPLICATED.

>> I'M GOING TO FOLLOW ALONG, THOUGH.

SURE, THAT IS THE CAUSE OF THE ANGER, AND SO IT'S MANIFESTED AS OPPOSITION TO ANY SORT OF MANDATE, BUT THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE HERE IS, THERE'S SORT OF A PHILOSOPHICAL DONNY BROOK AT WORK HERE, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE -- THERE ARE PEOPLE WITHIN THE CAUCUS, THE MAJORITY CAUCUSES IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES THAT DON'T WANT GOVERNMENT TO TELL BUSINESS HOW TO FUNCTION, AND SO AT THE SAME TIME, THEY DON'T WANT MANDATES, SO THERE'S SORT OF THIS INTERNAL, YOU KNOW, THIS LITTLE GUY IS ON THIS SHOULDER AND THIS ONE IS WHISPERING IN THIS EAR AND THEY'RE SAYING OP IOPPOSITE THINGS.

SO THAT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT.

AND THAT'S WHY PROBABLY WHEN AL% IS SAID AND DONE, LIKE WITH SO MANY OF THE ISSUES WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TODAY THAT SEEM TO BE LONGER -- HEAVIER ON RHETORIC THAN ON SUBSTANTIVE POLITICAL ACTIVITY OR MOTIVATION, NOTHING PROBABLY SIGNIFICANT WILL HAPPEN ON THAT FRONT.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, THE SORT OF PHILOSOPHICAL, WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE ABOUT THE PHILOSOPHICAL THAT JON JUST TALKED ABOUT, THE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN WE REALLY HATE THE MANDATES BUT WE ALSO HATE TELLING PRIVATE BUSINESS WHAT TO DO, THERE'S ALSO A POLITICAL BACK AND FORTH THERE TOO, BECAUSE THE INDIANA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IS GOING TO OPPOSE ANYTHING THAT IMPOSES RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT PRIVATE BUSINESSES CAN DO.

SO IS THE ANGER IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS OVER THE VACCINE IN GENERAL GOING TO OUTWEIGH THE CHAMBER'S OPPOSITION TO THEM DOING ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT?

>> IT'S A TRICKY BALANCE.

I MEAN, THE REACTION TO A VACCINE MANDATE FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN A MANDATE THAT THEY DON'T REQUIRE VACCINES.

SO ON BOTH HANDS, YOU'RE TELLING PRIVATE BUSINESSES WHAT TO DO.

I THINK GREGG TAYLOR AND TODD HUSTON ARE SAYING THE SAME THING FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, AND THAT IS, DON'T TELL BUSINESSES THEY CAN'T AND DON'T TELL BUSINESSES THEY HAVE TO.

LET THEM MAKE THE DECISION FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE IT MAY NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.

I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS THIS WEEK AND THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE BIDEN MANDATE, YET THEY'RE STRUGGLING NOW, THEY LOSE 2, 3, 4, 5% MUCH LESS 20% OF THEIR WORKFORCE, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE WHAT WE'VE SEEN AROUND THE STATE, WHICH IS SCHOOLS HAVING TO SHUT DOWN BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND BUS DRIVERS AND OTHER THINGS.

SO THERE'S CONCERN ALL AROUND, BUT THE POLITICS, CONSISTENCY FROM POLITICAL IDEOLOGY STANDPOINT IS HARD TO BALANCE.

>> ANN DELANEY, I'LL ASK YOU FOR THE PREDICTION THAT JON JUST MADE ESSENTIALLY, WHICH IS, IS THE LEGISLATURE GOING TO DO SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT THIS SESSION WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT BUSINESSES ARE ALLOWED TO DO ON VACCINES?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, INDIANA IS AN EMPLOYEE -- AND -- CONSTITUTIONALLY IDENTIFIED RIGHT, SO WHAT'S THE CONSTITUTIONALLY IDENTIFIED RIGHT HERE, THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO I TO INJECT SOMEBODY WA VIRUS?

I DON'T SEE IT.

IF THEY TRY TO DO IT AS NIKI ALREADY INDICATED, THEY'RE GOING TO OPEN A CAN OF WORMS THAT THEY WON'T BELIEVE.

I THINK THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND OTHER LARGE EMPLOYERS ARE GOING TO SAY BACK OFF, I DON'T THINK ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN.

>> THE INDIANA DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS THROWING ITS WEIGHT BEHIND MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION AHEAD OF THE 2022 STATE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

I TALKED WITH STATE PARTY CHAIR MIKE SCHMUHL THIS WEEK ABOUT WHY HIS ORGANIZATION IS MOBILIZING AROUND THE ISSUE NOW.

INDIVIDUAL HOOSIER DEMOCRATS HAVE LONG SUPPORTED MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION IN SOME FORM.

BUT SCHMUHL SAYS MAKING THE ISSUE A SIGNATURE FOR THE FULL PARTY CAME OUT OF CONVERSATIONS PARTY LEADERS HAVE HAD WITH HOOSIERS DURING STATEWIDE TOURS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS.

>> IT DOESN'T SEE URBAN OR RURAL DIVIDE BECAUSE IT CAN HELP FOLKS WHO LIVE IN EITHER COMMUNITY.

IT DOESN'T REALLY FAVOR YOUNG OR OLD BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUNG OR OLD SEE BENEFITS.

>> SCHMUHL SAYS HE ALSO THINKS ADVOCATING FOR MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION CAN HELP BRING PEOPLE INTO THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

>> PERHAPS FOLKS WHO AREN'T SUPER ENGAGED IN POLITICS OR CREATE, YOU KNOW, A NEW TYPE OF SINGLE ISSUE VOTER.

>> REPUBLICAN STATEHOUSE LEADERS HAVE ALREADY NIXED THE IDEA OF MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

JON SCHWANTES, IS MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION THE KIND OF THING THAT CAN CREATE A NEW SINGLE ISSUE VOTER?

>> I SUPPOSE IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO MOTIVATE SOME PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE MIGHT SIT OUT AN ELECTION.

TO GET ENGAGED, BECOME INVOLVED, NOT ONLY AS VOTERS BUT AS ORGANIZERS OR ACTIVISTS AND FUNDERS IN SOME FASHION.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A DANGEROUS STANCE, IT SEEMS TO ME, THE WAY IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN 30, 20 YEARS AGO EVEN, BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE INDIANAPOLIS-BASED AMERICAN LEGION, WHICH IS HARDLY VIEWED AS A BASTION OF LIBERALISM WHICH HAS FORMALLY ENDORSED LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.

IT HAS A NUMBER OF MEMBERS WHO PRESUMABLY ARE ON THE OLDER END OF THE AGE SPECTRUM WHO FIND THAT TO BE BENEFICIAL.

SO IT'S NOT A DANGEROUS POSITION, IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST, AND IF IT DOES ATTRACT SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE SINGLE ISSUE VOTERS, I SUPPOSE IT'S A GOOD THING FOR MIKE SCHMUHL.

>> TO THAT END, MIKE O'BRIEN, ARE REPUBLICANS RISKING ANYTHING BY NOT ENGAGING ON THIS ISSUE?

>> NOT YET.

I MEAN, DEMOCRATS, I MEAN, TO WHATEVER EXTENT THEY WANTED TO ACCELERATE THE CONVERSATION, THINK THEY PUSHED IT OFF BY PUTTING THE INDIANA DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE LEAD HERE.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME OTHER THAN YOU JUST WANT TO TRY TO MAKE IT A WEDGE ISSUE IN ELECTIONS NEXT YEAR.

WHY THEIR LEGISLATIVE LEADERS DIDN'T TAKE THE FIRST STEP, I DODON'T KNOW.

THIS IS COMMON AT SOME POINT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S CLOSE.

LEGISLATIVE LEADERS AND THE GOVERNOR ARE CLEARLY STILL OPPOSED TO IT, BUT NOW IT'S JUST BECOME KIND OF A POLITICAL EXERCISE IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT ONE OF THE PARTIES OUT FRONT, AND IT'S NOT -- >> VERY QUICKLY, ANN DELANEY, DO YOU THINK THERE ARE ELECTED DEMOCRATS WHO AREN'T TOO HAPPY WITH THE POSITION THE STATE PARTY IS TAKING ON THIS?

>> I THINK SO.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF US WHO HAVE ADVOCATED FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE IT'S THE ONE THING THAT CAN EASE SUFFERING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND ONCE YOU HAVE THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA, YOU KNOW, IT NOT ONLY MAKES SENSE FROM A USE POINT OF VIEW, BUT IT MAKES SENSE FROM AN ECONOMIC POINT OF VIEW.

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED ON THIS CASE?

NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE LOCKED UP FOR MARIJUANA POSSESSION.

>> THAT IS "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS AND NIKI KELLY OF THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE IF YOU'D LIKE A PODCAST OF THIS PROGRAM YOU CAN FIND IT AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR STARTING MONDAY YOU CAN STREAM IT OR GET IT ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY AND ON THE WFYI APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

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