>>> THIS WEEKEND ACADEMY AWARDS WILL SEE HISTORIC ASIAN REPRESENTATION, BUT THE OSCARS ARE STILL UNDER FIRE FOR A LACK OF REPRESENTATION AND IT COMES EIGHT YEARS AFTER THE HASHTAG OSCAR SO WHITE LED TO A RECKONING FOR THE ACADEMY.

DESPITE SOME CHANGES, NO BLACK DIRECTOR HAS EVER WON BEST DIRECTOR AND NO BLACK WOMAN HAS EVER RECEIVED A DIRECT THE NOMINATION.

NOW THIS YEAR THE HISTORICAL ACTION ADVENTURE FILM, THE WOMAN KING, STARRING VIOLA DAVIS WAS CONSIDERED TO BE THE FILM THAT MIGHT FINALLY BREAK THAT BEST DIRECTOR BARRIER.

>> THEY ARE HERE FOR YOU.

>> THEY DO NOT KNOW EVIL IS COMING.

>> THEY KNOW YOU WILL PROTECT THEM.

>> I WISH TO SPEAK TO THE KING.

>> TELL HIM I WILL WAIT.

>> JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS YEAR'S OSCAR NOMINATIONS ARE ROBERT DANIELS, AND THE DIRECTOR AND PAUL FILMMAKING PROFESSOR, RACHEL BASS.

LET'S START WITH YOU, RACHEL.

THE WOMAN KING, THE CRITICAL SUCCESS, NO OSCAR NOMINATION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL I THINK IT IS TELLING THAT THE WOMAN KING WAS NOT NOMINATED FOR A SINGLE CATEGORY AND BY ALL LOOKS IT DID EVERYTHING RIGHT.

IT WAS A $50 MILLION BUDGET FILM.

IT WAS A BOX OFFICE SUCCESS.

ENTIRELY LACK LEAD FEMALE CAST, BLACK DIRECTOR, AND SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW COULD THE ACADEMY NOT RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN OTHER FILMS, ESPECIALLY IN THE ACTION-ADVENTURE CATEGORY HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN NOMINATED?

>> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT ZERO NOMINATIONS?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE IS A PART OF ME THAT IS SURPRISED BY IT AND KNOWING THE HISTORICAL BARRIERS BEHIND BLACK DIRECTORS AND FILMMAKERS, BLACK STORIES BEING HONORED.

AND SO WHEN THE NOMINATIONS DROPPED AND I SAW THE WOMAN KING WAS NOT NOMINATED, I WAS SHOCKED TO SEE IT TOTALLY BLANK.

I WAS NOT SHOCKED IT UNDERPERFORMED BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THE STORY BEFORE.

ESPECIALLY SINCE 2015 WITH OSCARS SO WHITE.

>> WE KNOW THAT THE ACADEMY HAS MADE SOME CHANGES TO INCREASE DIVERSITY AMONG ITS MEMBERSHIP.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE ENOUGH PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE?

>> I THINK WHEN WE THINK ABOUT PROGRESS WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT KNEE-JERK REACTIONS AND LONG-TERM DEEP SYSTEMIC CHANGE.

SO 2015 WAS THE FIRST OF TWO CONSECUTIVE YEARS OF CONSECUTIVE ALL WHITE ACTOR NOMINEES.

AND HISTORICALLY WHITE MEN HAVE DOMINATED IN THE BEST DIRECTOR CATEGORIES.

SO THEN AFTER 2016 WE SAW A LITTLE BIT OF A KNEE-JERK REACTION FROM THE ACADEMY WHEN MOONLIGHT ONE BEST PICTURE.

YOU HAD BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR AND SO THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE REPRESENTATION.

I WILL ADD ABOUT IN THE BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR AND ACTRESS CATEGORIES, THOSE TEND TO BE THE MOST DIVERSE CATEGORIES AS OPPOSED TO THE LEAD ACTOR CATEGORIES.

SO AFTER THAT THERE WERE A COUPLE WINDS BUT NOW THAT WE ARE BACK TO MOSTLY ALL-WHITE LEADING ACTRESS CATEGORY AND ALL WHITE ACTOR CATEGORY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DANIEL QUAN, AND ALL WHITE MALE DIRECTOR LINEUP , THE QUESTION IS, WAS 2017 A FLUKE, OR WERE THOSE CONSIDERED HANDOUTS, OR WAS THERE LASTING DEEP SYSTEMIC CHANGE AND AT THIS POINT NOW, GIVEN YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY A MILESTONE IN ASIAN REPRESENTATION, AS YOU POINTED OUT, IS THE DEFAULT GOING BACK TO MOST WHITE FILMMAKERS ESPECIALLY BEHIND THE CAMERA.

>> SO RACHEL TALKED ABOUT A FLUKE OR A HANDOUT OR OTHER WAYS THAT BLACK ACTORS AND DIRECTORS HAVE BEEN SNUBBED.

IT HAS LED TO CONVERSATION ABOUT LOOKING AT OTHER SPACES IN HOLLYWOOD WHERE WE CAN CRITICIZE THE ISSUE AND LOOK AT CHANGES.

WHERE ELSE DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING?

>> YEAH.

YOU THINK OF WHAT OSCAR SO WHITE TRIED TO BE IN THE PROBLEM WAS IT WAS OSCAR SO WHITE INSTEAD OF THE ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM BEING SO WHITE.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE DIRECTOR OF AMERICA, EVERY YEAR THEY DO THE FIVE WINNERS AND FIVE NOMINEES AND TYPICALLY THE FIVE NOMINEES ARE THE FIVE NOMINEES THAT SHOW UP AT THE ACADEMY AWARDS, HOWEVER, THEY HAVE NEVER NOMINATED A BLACK WOMAN AS BEST DIRECTOR IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY.

IN THE SO WHEN YOU SEE SOMEONE ALREADY FAILING WITH A PRECURSOR TO EVEN GET TO THE ACADEMY AWARDS THEN WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST THE ACADEMY AWARDS IN THE SPACE THAT NEEDS TO IMPROVE FOR THINGS TO CHANGE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM.

SO I THINK FROM THE TOP DOWN, FROM PRECURSORS LIKE TGA AND GOLDEN GLOVES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO CRITICS GROUPS AND ESPECIALLY AT THE LEVEL WHERE STUDIOS ARE DECIDING WHAT FILMS GET TO THE PROPER BUDGET THAT IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO COMPETE FOR AN ACADEMY AWARD, AND SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE SYSTEM INSTEAD OF ONE COMPONENT OF IT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE WORK ONLINE, THIS KIND OF HOT POTATO CONCEPT OF MAYBE FILMMAKERS ARE NOT FEELING LIKE THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT TO RECEIVE AN OSCAR NOT, SO THEY DON'T DO THE WORK REQUIRED VERSUS MAYBE LIKE THE ACADEMY IS NOT EVEN LOOKING AT CERTAIN FILMS.

HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THIS LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY ?

>> I THINK FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE HAVE TO STOP TREATING THE OSCARS AS ABOUT TALENT AND STORYTELLING.

I THINK THAT IS PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.

THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT ACCESS AND POWERPOINT SO TO ME IT IS A NONISSUE WHETHER YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY BUT DON'T YOU THINK THE BEST PICTURE, THEIR GREAT MOVIES AND WE WERE TALKING EARLIER, I LOVED MANY OF THE MOVIES THAT ARE IN THE LINEUP.

IT IS NOT ABOUT TALENT, BUT WHAT GINA WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE LION WAS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT DID EVERYTHING RIGHT $.50 MILLION BUDGET FOR A FEMALE LEAD ACTION-ADVENTURE WAS VIRTUALLY ALMOST UNHEARD OF.

SO IT IS ABOUT POWER AND ACCESS AND WHY SOMEONE LIKE ANDREA ROSEBORO WHO WAS NOMINATED AND THE LEADING ACTRESS CATEGORY FOR A BEAUTIFUL PERFORMANCE I WOULD SAY BUT WHAT THE RULES OF THE GAME ARE, SO IN ANSWERING THIS QUESTION AND IN TALKING ABOUT THAT CRAZY EIGHT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK WE HAVE TO STOP MOVING AWAY FROM THIS IS GREAT CINEMA AND THIS IS GREAT STORYTELLING AND MAYBE IN LIKE TWO DECADES ONCE THINGS HAVE EQUAL THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST WE DO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THIS DEEPER OVERHAUL OF POWER AND ACCESS AND HOW TO FUND MORE MOVIES SO THAT THE ROLES ARE WRITTEN FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR TO BE ABLE TO BE NOMINATED.

>> SO WE HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT DIRECTORS BUT WE HAVE NOT EVEN TALKED ABOUT SUPPORTING ACTRESSES, SO ANGELA BASSETT DID RECEIVE A NOMINATION FOR HER SUPPORTING PERFORMANCE AND HERE IS A CLIP.

>> WE MOURN THE LOSS OF ARCING, BUT DO NOT THINK FOR A SECOND THAT WE HAVE LOST OUR ABILITY TO PROTECT OUR RESOURCES.

WE ARE OF THE ONGOING EFFORTS TO FIND OUTSIDE .

AND WISH THE BEST .

>> SO WE SEE PAXLOVID FOREVER AND WE KNOW BLACK WOMEN HAVE -- ACTRESS THAT NEVER -- WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO CHANGE IN THE LONG RUN?

WE HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT.

>> YOU, SO A BLACK WOMAN HAS NOT ONE BEST ACTRESS OR THERE HAS ONLY BEEN ONE, HALLE BERRY FOR MONSTERS BALL.

WE THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE, YOU KNOW, AFFECT CHANGE AND TRY TO GET MORE ACTORS IN THERE, I THINK THAT PARTICULARLY RACHEL MENTIONS THAT WE HAVE TO GET MORE ROLES BASICALLY.

I MEAN, THERE ARE ROLES THAT EXIST AND THAT CERTAINLY HELPS BUT THERE JUST IS NOT ENOUGH BEING PRODUCED MOSTLY BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC RESTRICTION UPON WHAT MOVIES GET MADE AND WHAT MOVIES DON'T GET MADE.

AND THEN EVEN WHEN THEY ARE MADE, WHAT MOVIES GET PUT IN FRONT OF VIEWERS AND AWARDS BODIES.

SO IT IS REALLY JUST FOLLOW THE MONEY.