>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, ELECTION CERTIFIED BUT NOT WITHOUT CONTROVERSY.

WHY THE SECRETARY OF STATE SAYS THE OTERO COUNTY COMMISSION IS DELIBERATELY SOWING DOUBT IN OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> Garcia: OUR ENTIRE WAY OF LIFE IS AT STAKE AND IT IS A WAY OF LIFE THAT IS UNIQUELY NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: A COMMUNITY IN CRISIS.

THE MESSAGE FROM NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AS BACK-TO-BACK DISASTERS CRIPPLE THE AREAS ACEQUIAS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK, I AM YOUR HOST GENE GRANT.

THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE HAS DISPLACED 10'S OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AND CAUSED SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO WATER SUPPLY AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

IT WILL TAKE YEARS FOR SOME COMMUNITIES TO RECOVER.

THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVISIO SPEAKS WITH THE LEADER OF THE NEW MEXICO ACEQUIA ASSOCIATION TO FIND OUT WHAT IS BEING DONE TO MAKE SURE THOSE COMMUNITIES ARE MADE WHOLE AGAIN.

THE 2021 POLICE SHOOTING OF AN UNARMED MAN HAS THE CHAVES COUNTY SHERIFF IN THE SPOTLIGHT, AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OPENS AN INVESTIGATION INTO ANOTHER DEADLY POLICE SHOOTING IN THE COUNTY EARLIER THIS YEAR.

THE LINE OPINION PANEL IS REACTING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR.

ALSO GETTING A CLEARER PICTURE OF WHERE THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR STANDS AFTER NEW POLLING.

IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES I'LL ASK OUR PANELISTS IF REPUBLICAN NOMINEE MARK RONCHETTI'S LACK OF POLITICAL EXPERIENCE WILL HELP OR HURT HIM COME NOVEMBER.

BUT WE START THIS WEEK WITH A STORY THAT SPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

OTERO COUNTY COMMISSIONERS CHANGING THEIR DECISION AND VOTING 2-1 TO CERTIFY THE COUNTY'S PRIMARY RESULTS.

THAT CAME AFTER A LAWSUIT AND ORDER FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

SECRETARY OF STATE MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER HAS BEEN A LEADING FORCE IN GETTING THAT ELECTION CERTIFIED BUT ACKNOWLEDGES THIS IS A TROUBLING DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE OR DEMOCRACY.

SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVISIO CAUGHT UP WITH HER FOR HER PERSPECTIVE ON THE INCIDENT AND WHAT IT COULD MEAN HEADING IN TO THE GENERAL ELECTION.

>> Lou: NEW MEXICO SECRETARY OF STATE MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>> Toulouse-Oliver: MY PLEASURE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> LOU: I JUST WANT TO CATCH EVERYONE UP QUICKLY ON THE SITUATION IN OTERO COUNTY.

COMMISSIONERS THERE INITIALLY VOTED 3-0 NOT TO CERTIFY THE PRIMARY ELECTION RESULTS FROM THEIR COUNTY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MONTH.

THAT IS WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE TO DO SO.

YOUR OFFICE THEN SUED AND THE STATE SUPREME COURT PROMPTLY ORDERED THOSE COMMISSIONERS TO CERTIFY THE RESULTS.

DAYS LATER, THEY COMPLIED WITH THE 2-1 VOTE AND NOW THOSE RESULTS THEY ARE CERTIFIED.

THAT PART IS OVER BUT THAT LONE DISSENTING VOTE BELONGS TO COUY GRIFFIN WHO OPENLY ADMITTED HIS DECISION WASN'T BASED ON FACTS OR EVIDENCE.

BUT, INSTEAD A FEELING HE HAD ABOUT VOTE MACHINES.

HOW DANGEROUS IS A STATEMENT LIKE THAT BUT ALSO THE CONCRETE REALITY THAT HIS VOTE IS STILL ON THE RECORD?

>> Toulouse-Oliver: WELL, I THINK THE WHOLE SITUATION WAS PRETTY DANGEROUS.

IT BROUGHT US CLOSE TO THE BRINK OF A COLLAPSE OF OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

THE THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS HAD THOSE ELECTION RESULTS NOT BEEN CERTIFIED BY THE DEADLINE, WHICH WAS LAST FRIDAY, THE DATE THEY ACTUALLY DID COME TOGETHER AND CERTIFY, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IS THAT FOR EVERY OFFICE ON THE BALLOT IN OTERO COUNTY THAT WAS CONTAINED ENTIRELY WITHIN THAT COUNTY, THEY WOULD HAVE ESSENTIALLY BEEN THROWING THE VOTES OF EVERY VOTER WHO CAST A BALLOT IN THOSE RACES INTO THE TRASH.

NONE OF THOSE CANDIDATES WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO APPEAR ON THE GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT INCLUDING, IMPORTANTLY, ONE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HIMSELF WHO EVENTUALLY DID VOTE IN FAVOR OF CERTIFICATION.

AND, FURTHERMORE, IT IS NOT THE COUNTY COMMISSION'S ROLE TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT VOTING MACHINES AND TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT CERTIFICATION BASED ON THOSE FEELINGS.

THEY ARE THERE TO MAKE SURE A CANVASS OF THE ELECTION WAS CONDUCTED, THAT THE COUNTY CLERK DID HER JOB AND TO SIGN OFF ON THAT.

SO, THE FEAR IS THAT IF ACTIVITIES LIKE THIS CONTINUE TO OCCUR ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THEY ARE SO POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, WE MAY HAVE A BREAKDOWN OF OUR ELECTION PROCESS IN THE FUTURE AND WE REALLY DID NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN EITHER NOW OR IN NOVEMBER OF THIS YEAR.

>> Lou: I KNOW THAT IS A CONCERN AND I ASSUME THAT IS PART OF THE CALCULUS WHEN YOU REFERRED COMMISSIONERS TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR POSSIBLE CIVIL OR CRIMINAL CHARGES FOR VIOLATING THE ELECTION CODE.

HAVE YOU HEARD AN UPDATE ON THAT PROCESS?

>> Toulouse-Oliver: WE ARE GOING TO BE CONTINUING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

OBVIOUSLY, THEY ARE THE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OF THE STATE.

IT IS THEIR JOB TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION TO WEIGH THE INTERESTS OF PUBLIC LAW IN NEW MEXICO.

YOU KNOW WE CAN CONTINUE TO SUPPLY INFORMATION AS WE HAVE IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY IT IS UP TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DETERMINE WHAT IS THE RIGHT MOVE FORWARD.

WHAT I WILL SAY IS JUST ON ITS FACE, THESE COMMISSIONERS BROKE SEVERAL LAWS IN SOME OF THE INITIAL VOTES THEY TOOK AND CERTAINLY COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN CONTINUED TO VIOLATE THE LAW WITH HIS NO VOTE ON LAST FRIDAY.

>> Lou: WITH ALL THAT IN MIND, WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO SUPPORT CHARGES IF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WERE TO REACH THAT DECISION?

>> Toulouse-Oliver: YEAH, IT IS A HARD THING TO SAY BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WHAT WE WANTED WAS THE RIGHT OUTCOME.

WE WANTED THE COUNTY COMMISSION TO CERTIFY RESULTS SO WE COULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ELECTION PROCESS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, HERE WE HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO OPENLY DEFIED A COURT ORDER.

THAT IS REALLY SORT OF THE BOTTOM LINE.

SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE CAME DOWN AND SAID YOU WILL DO YOUR DUTY, WHICH IS SET FORTH IN STATUE.

THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL AND HE CHOOSE TO THUMB HIS NOSE, SO TO SPEAK, AT THAT COURT ORDER.

I THINK REALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ACCOUNTABILITY IN OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND IN FOLLOWING THE LAW, I THINK IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT FOR THAT TO CONTINUE.

>> Lou: NOW, OTERO COUNTY WAS THE ONLY COUNTY WHERE COMMISSIONERS ACTUALLY VOTED DOWN RESULTS BUT WE ALSO SAW PROTESTS AT OTHER PLACES, HECKLING AT COMMISSION MEETINGS IN TORRANCE COUNTY, SANDOVAL COUNTY DESPITE THERE BEING NO EVIDENCE OF ANY ISSUES.

THIS IS BROAD BUT HOW DO WE COMBAT THIS PUBLIC PERCEPTION THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS?

>> Toulouse-Oliver: WELL, IT IS A BIG CHALLENGE AND IT NEEDS TO BE COMBATED ON A COUPLE DIFFERENT FRONTS.

FIRST OF ALL, I THINK COUNTY CLERKS AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING, YOU KNOW, WE TALK ALL THE TIME BUT ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AROUND THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS.

THERE IS OBVIOUSLY WORK WE NEED TO DO TO MORE FULLY EDUCATE OUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON THE ELECTION PROCESS AND ELECTION LAW, WHAT THEIR ROLE IS AND IS NOT IN THE ELECTION PROCESS.

COUNTY COMMISSIONS REALLY HAVE A MINOR ROLE.

THEY HAVE A ROLE TO MAKE SURE CERTAIN THINGS HAVE GOTTEN DONE TO BE THAT ENTITY THAT VERIFIES THAT, BUT THEY ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF ELECTIONS IN THIS STATE.

HOWEVER, IF IT HELPS THEM TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE ELECTION PROCESS, WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DO THAT.

RIGHT NOW THEY ARE ONLY, YOU KNOW, THESE COUNTIES ARE ONLY OPEN TO LISTENING TO ADVICE FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ELECTION EXPERTS AND WHO DO NOT ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND NEW MEXICO ELECTION LAW.

SECONDLY, WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB EDUCATING THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL ABOUT HOW OUR ELECTION PROCESS ACTUALLY WORKS AND ALL THE STEPS WE ALREADY DO TAKE TO SECURE THE INTEGRITY OF OUR ELECTIONS.

>> Lou: SURE.

SORRY ONE MORE HAMMER ON THIS OTERO COUNTY SITUATION, BUT, YOU BROUGHT UP NOVEMBER.

IF IN THE MINDS OF GRIFFIN OR THESE OTHER COMMISSIONERS, GRIFFIN WHO OPENLY DISPUTED THIS AND DEFIED THAT COURT ORDER, IF IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH EVIDENCE OR FACTS AND BOILS DOWN TO IF THEY WANT TO DISPUTE IT OR NOT, DO YOU JUST HAVE TO RELY ON THE COURT SYSTEM?

>> Toulouse-Oliver: UNFORTUNATELY, YES.

I KNOW I AM CERTAINLY HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME OF OUR LEGISLATORS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN -- EXCUSE ME, BUILD A FAILSAFE INTO THIS PROCESS.

YOU KNOW AT THE END OF THE DAY OUR ELECTION PROCESSES ARE BUILT ON A SERIES OF CHECKS AND BALANCES.

THERE IS AT THIS POINT IN TIME NO ONE PERSON OR ENTITY THAT CAN DETERMINE THE OUTCOME OF AN ELECTION AND THAT IS BY INTENTION.

IF THESE COUNTY COMMISSIONS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO THROW A WRENCH INTO THE WORKS MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF ELECTIONS JUST BY CASTING A NO VOTE, THAT IS A FLAW IN THE SYSTEM THAT WE NEED TO CORRECT MOVING FORWARD.

MAYBE WE'LL HAVE A BITE AT THAT APPLE BEFORE NOVEMBER BUT I AM NOT SURE IF WE WILL.

>> Lou: OKAY.

I WANT TO END ON ANOTHER GROUP THAT SOMETIMES LOST IN THIS ELECTION WORKERS, I KNOW YOU HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THIS WITH OTHER PROGRAMS TOO.

THAT IS REALLY COUNTY CLERKS AND ALL THE WAY DOWN.

OTERO COUNTY'S CLERK SAID THAT THIS WAS A GREAT ELECTION, THERE WEREN'T ANY ISSUES, YET SHE IS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS.

AND I AM SURE SHE IS HEARING ABOUT IT FROM SOME PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC ANYWAY, AND THAT TO SAY NOTHING OF THE VOLUNTEERS AND PART-TIME WORKERS WHO ARE AT THE POLLS, WHAT WOULD YOU MESSAGE BE TO THEM AND TO THE REST OF THE PUBLIC WHO MAY TAKE THAT LEAP TO TAKE THEIR FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SERVING US REALLY.

>> Toulouse-Oliver: OUR COUNTY CLERKS, THEIR STAFF AND THOSE POLL OFFICIALS THAT ACTUALLY RUN THE ELECTIONS ON THE GROUND HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE ABSOLUTELY THE BACKBONE OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

WE COULD NOT HAVE CITIZEN RUN ELECTIONS WITHOUT THEM.

SO, THEY ARE MY HIGHEST PRIORITY AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE SAFE AND PROTECTED BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY THAT THEY KNOW THEIR WORK CAN BE TRUSTED AND IS VALUABLE AND THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY WHETHER IT BE COUNTY CLERK OR THE SECRETARY OF STATE OR THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THEIR BACKS.

AND MAKE SURE THAT THEIR IMPORTANT WORK IS VALUED AND THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT IT IS NOT OVERTURNED OR OVERTHROWN OR SOME ATTEMPT MADE TO UNDERMINE THAT IMPORTANT COMMUNITY WORK THAT THEY DO.

>> Lou: THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SECRETARY OF STATE MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> Toulouse-Oliver: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: OUR THANKS TO LOU THERE AND SECRETARY OF STATE MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

LET'S GET THE REACTION FROM THE LINE.

WITH US THIS WEEK IS ATTORNEY LAURA SANCHEZ.

ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE HER.

REPORTER AT NEW MEXICO POLITICAL REPORTER ANDY LYMAN IS WITH US AS WELL.

AND LINE REGULAR MERRITT ALLEN OF VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS JOINS US AS WELL.

THANK YOU ALL.

WE KNOW THIS WAS ALL OVER PERCEIVED DISTRUST OF ELECTION VOTING MACHINES DESPITE THE FACT THAT MACHINES HAVE BEEN AUDITED MANY TIMES AND PROVEN TO ACCURATELY COUNT VOTES.

TWO OF THE THREE COMMISSIONERS GAVE INTO THE SUPREME COURT'S ORDER TO CERTIFY THE ELECTION BUT COMMISSIONER COUY GRIFFIN DISSENTED, EVEN WHILE SAYING HE HAD NO EVIDENCE OF PROBLEMS OR A FACTUAL BASIS FOR QUESTIONING THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION.

NOW, MERRITT, IS THIS JUST A PR STUNT TIMED AROUND THE JANUARY 6 HEARING POSSIBLY OR DO THESE COMMISSIONERS REALLY THINK THEY ARE STANDING FOR THEIR CITIZENS?

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO PERCEIVE THIS FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN?

>> Merritt: WHAT I FIND SO UPSETTING AND WHAT I SAY TO ANYONE WATCHING WHO HAS GOT CONCERNS ABOUT THE DOMINION VOTING MACHINES, EVERY COUNTY BEFORE EVERY ELECTION HOLDS A PUBLIC TEST AT VOTING MACHINES AND ANYONE CAN GO AND EXAMINE THE MACHINES AND BE PART OF THE TEST AND EXAMINE THE BALLOTS AND ADDRESS ANY CONCERNS THEN.

THIS IS BEFORE EARLY VOTING STARTS.

THIS IS THE TIME TO GO AND EXAMINE THE PROCESS.

AND RAISE YOUR CONCERNS AND IF YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT ABOUT THE VALIDITY OR THE ACCURACY OF THE SYSTEM OR PROCESSES, THIS IS THE TIME TO RAISE IT.

IF YOU DID NOT GO TO THAT PUBLIC TEST, I THINK YOU NEED TO SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP.

IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

UNTIL THE RESULTS ARE IN, JUST DECIDE, I DON'T HAVE A GOOD FEELING ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE SOME GUY TOLD YOU SOMETHING ABOUT SOME GOBBLEDEGOOK ABOUT MANIPULATING STATISTICS, YOU NEED TO STAND DOWN.

IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

AND I WANT TO APPLAUD THE TORRANCE COUNTY COMMISSION, THREE REPUBLICANS ALSO, WHO DESPITE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC COMING IN AND SHOUTING AT THEM TO NOT CERTIFY THE RESULTS, RESISTED THAT PRESSURE AND VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO CERTIFY RESULTS OF THEIR PRIMARY.

>> Gene: I MENTIONED TWO VOTES WERE YES, ONE WAS NO.

THAT WAS COUY GRIFFIN.

LET ME READ YOU AN INTERESTING QUOTE FROM HIM.

FROM COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN, "MY VOTE TO REMAIN A NO ISN'T BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE.

IT ISN'T BASED ON ANY FACTS.

IT IS ONLY BASED ON MY OWN GUT FEELING, MY OWN INTUITION AND THAT IS ALL I NEED."

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO FEEL AS A CONSTITUENT WHEN YOU HAVE GOT YOUR ELECTED COMMISSIONER SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T THINK THIS IS RIGHT IN MY GUT?

HOW ARE FOLKS SUPPOSED TO HANDLE THAT?

>> Andy: I CAN'T SPEAK FOR CONSTITUENTS IN OTERO COUNTY.

I HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN THERE PLENTY OF TIMES, BUT I AM NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT BUT WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT HIM SAYING THAT IS SHORTLY AFTER HE SAID THAT, HE SORT OF TOOK AIM AT REPORTERS AND THE, QUOTE, MEDIA FOR CALLING IT UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS OF VOTER FRAUD.

HE SAID, WE JUST SUBSTANTIATED HERE.

THAT IS NOT A DIRECT QUOTE BUT HE SAID, LOOK, WE SUBSTANTIATED IT IN OTERO COUNTY RIGHT AFTER HE SAID HE DOESN'T HAVE FACTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

TO TOUCH WHAT MERRITT WAS SAYING IS THAT THEY HAD THESE CONCERNS ABOUT JUST THE GENERAL SENSE OF THE VOTING MACHINES AND HOW THINGS WORK, NOT THE SPECIFIC OUTCOME OF THAT ELECTION.

AND I THINK MERRITT IS RIGHT THAT THERE IS A WAY TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS EARLY ON INSTEAD OF WAITING UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE AND SAYING WE ARE JUST GOING TO HOLD UP THIS ELECTION BECAUSE WE HAVE GENERAL CONCERNS ABOUT HOW OUR ELECTIONS ARE DONE.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW, LAURA, INTERESTINGLY, OF COURSE, AS WE ALL KNOW MR. GRIFFIN WAS SENTENCED TO 14 DAYS TIME SERVED FOR HIS ROLE IN THE JANUARY 6 INSURRECTION.

YOU KNOW THERE IS NO WAY FOR US TO KNOW THIS, AS ANDY SORT OF MENTIONED, BUT SEEN AS A HERO OR CRIMINAL AMONGST HIS CONSTITUENTS.

HOW DOES THIS GO DOWN OVER TIME WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT AN ELECTED OFFICIAL TAKING THIS KIND OF A STANCE?

>> Laura: I THINK THE PEOPLE OF OTERO COUNTY, AS A LOT OF PEOPLE THROUGHOUT NEW MEXICO IN RURAL AREAS, THEY ARE GOOD SALT OF THE EARTH PEOPLE.

THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, WELL AWARE OF UPHOLDING OUR LAWS AND BEING GOOD CITIZENS AND ARE PROUD TO BE AMERICANS AND I THINK WHEN YOU SEE SOME OF THE BEHAVIOR THAT HAS COME OUT OF MR. GRIFFIN, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT EVERYONE JUST HAS SORT OF AN IMMEDIATE, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, WE ARE BEHIND YOU KIND OF REACTION.

I WOULD THINK THEY COULD SEE ALSO THAT SOME OF THIS IS CLEARLY BEING DONE FOR SHOW.

THERE MUST BE SOME SORT OF A FEW MINUTES OF FAME IDEA BEHIND SOME OF HIS ACTIONS BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST OUT THERE.

THE COMMENT THAT ANDY MADE ABOUT HIM SAYING ABOUT UNSUBSTANTIATED.

MAYBE HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE WORD SUBSTANTIATED MEANS.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY I COULD SQUARE WHAT HE IS SAYING THERE.

IT IS DISAPPOINTING AND SUCH A HUGE DISTRACTION FROM THE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW THAT ARE AFFECTING A LOT OF NEW MEXICANS, PEOPLE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, PEOPLE STATE-WIDE.

WE STILL HAVE A BAD ECONOMY IN A LOT OF PLACES, THERE IS JOB SHORTAGES, STILL PEOPLE SUFFERING WITH COVID-19.

WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF REAL ISSUES TO DEAL WITH AND THESE KIND OF ACTIONS TAKE AWAY FROM A LOT OF THAT AND IS FRUSTRATING.

I CAN'T IMAGINE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THIS LATER AND BE PRIDEFUL -- HAVE PRIDE ABOUT WHAT HIS ACTIONS HAVE BEEN.

OTERO COUNTY HAS BEEN ALL OVER OF THE NATIONAL NEWS BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE ALL KIND OF TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND MOVE FORWARD.

I AM GLAD THAT MERRITT BROUGHT UP, AND I LOVE THAT YOU ARE SO PLAIN SPOKEN, MERRITT, THAT IS WHY I SAID I LOVE YOU.

WE HAVE THAT REACTION BUT NOT EVERYBODY SAYS IT THAT WAY AND SHE DID IT VERY WELL.

BUT, TORRANCE COUNTY, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THERE ARE PLENTY OF BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF REPUBLICANS THAT HAVE CERTIFIED THE ELECTION AND HAVE FAITH IN THEIR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS, FOLKS THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THE ELECTIONS.

THEY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS.

THEY HAVE BEEN TO THOSE WAREHOUSES OR WHEREVER THE COUNTING IS GOING ON AND THEY HAVE CONFIDENCE ENOUGH TO UPHOLD WHAT IS BEING DONE.

AND BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE DO THIS, YOU KNOW.

THERE IS PLENTY OF DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY COUNTIES THAT HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING WHEN THE ENTIRE -- EVERYBODY GETS ELECTED AS REPUBLICANS.

SO THIS IS ABOUT BEING PART OF A PROCESS AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW AND I FEEL LIKE EVERYTHING THAT HAS COME OUT OF COUY GRIFFIN HAS NOT UPHELD THE RULE OF LAW.

THAT IS JUST NOT THE SYSTEM WE HAVE HERE.

IF HE IS GOING TO GO WITH A GUT REACTION, YOU COULD PRETTY MUCH JUSTIFY EVERYTHING, A CRIMINAL SENTENCE, THE DEATH PENALTY.

IN A CRIMINAL CASE, YOU COULD JUSTIFY LYNCHING, RACISM, ALL KINDS OF THINGS BECAUSE OF A GUT REACTION.

THAT IS CRAZY.

THAT IS NOT THE SYSTEM WE HAVE AND I'M GLAD WE DON'T AND SHOULDN'T BE TRYING TO PULL US BACK INTO PLACES THAT WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW, MERRITT, LAURA MENTIONED SOMETHING INTERESTING.

THE OTERO COUNTY CLERK THERE WAS A REPUBLICAN.

YOU KNOW, ROBIN HOLMES, THE QUOTE FROM HER WAS THIS WAS A GREAT ELECTION WITH NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER.

WHY DIDN'T THAT CARRY ANY WATER IN THE COUNTY?

HAVING A REPUBLICAN CLERK SAY EVERYTHING IS FINE HERE?

>> Merritt: I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY ELECTED DEMOCRATS IN OTERO COUNTY.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

>> Merritt: REPUBLICANS CARRIED THE COUNTY IN 2020 BY 28 POINTS AND, YOU KNOW, THE DESIRED RESULTS FROM THIS AND YOU KNOW THAT COUNTY COMMISSION ALSO VOTED THAT THE GENERAL ELECTION SHALL NOT HAVE VOTING MACHINES AND IT SHALL BE A HAND COUNT OF THE BALLOTS.

THAT IS THE DESIRED RESULT.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IF THEIR CONCERN IS VOTER FRAUD, THE GREATEST RISK TO ELECTION INTEGRITY IN NEW MEXICO IS MISHANDLING, MISAPPROPRIATION, MISUSE OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

A HAND COUNT BY POLL WORKERS WILL NOT WEED OUT FRAUDULENT ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

THEY WILL BE READ AND COUNTED JUST LIKE A MACHINE WOULD.

WE HAVE HAD A CONVICTION IN 2019 IN RIO ARRIBA COUNTY FOR FRAUDULENT ABSENTEE BALLOTS, QUITE CONCERNED IN GRANT COUNTY WHERE THE VOTER ROLES AND VOTER PARTICIPATION RATES ARE SO HIGH, THAT IS SOMETHING I REALLY THINK THE SECRETARY OF STATE AND COUNTY OFFICIALS NEED TO BE LOOKING INTO.

92% VOTER REGISTRATION ISN'T RIGHT.

AND I THINK THE VOTER ROLLS NEED TO BE PERUSED.

THERE IS SOMETHING NOT RIGHT IN GRANT COUNTY.

THIS, IF YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT ELECTION INTEGRITY IN NEW MEXICO, IS WHERE YOU NEED TO TURN YOUR ATTENTION NOT VOTING MACHINES.

AND SO THIS IS REALLY TRULY TILTING AT A WINDMILL BECAUSE A HAND COUNT IS NOT GOING TO ELIMINATE FRAUDULENT ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

THEY WILL BE COUNTED BY HAND JUST AS THEY WOULD BY A MACHINE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

ANDY, PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED TORRANCE COUNTY HAS THEIR ISSUES, AND SANDOVAL AS WELL, PROTESTERS JEERED COMMISSIONERS THERE AS WELL.

HOW DO WE PULL THIS BACK TO HAVE FOLKS UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, DISTRUST, YOU'RE PART OF THE FOMENT OF DISTRUST HERE WHEN YOU WALK INTO THESE MEETINGS AND START JEERING COMMISSIONERS FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING.

IS THERE A WAY TO FIGHT BACK THAT GOES BEYOND GOING ON RACHEL MADDOW AND ARGUING YOUR CASE ON NATIONAL TELEVISION.

>> Andy: I THINK IT IS HARD.

IF THERE IS A WAY TO DO IT, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SORT OF, I GUESS, AS YOU WOULD SAY, CHANGE HEARTS AND MINDS.

I THINK A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE TRULY BELIEVE.

I THINK, THEY HAVE BEEN SO INGRAINED IN SORT OF THEIR THEORIES AND OF COURSE CONFIRMATION BIAS AND ALL THAT STUFF PLAYS INTO THESE IDEAS THAT PEOPLE HAVE.

AND THEY ARE TRULY CONVINCED THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THERE.

SO, I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW YOU GET PEOPLE TO SORT OF TAKE A STEP BACK AND SORT OF THINK ABOUT THINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE LOGICALLY AND CLEARLY AND MAYBE TAKE IN SOME MORE FACTS.

I THINK PART OF THE OTHER PROBLEM, TOO, IS IT IS NOT -- THEY ARE NOT ARTICULATING VERY CLEARLY IF THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE DOMINION MACHINES.

COUY GRIFFIN SAID HE WANTED TO GET IN AND LOOK AT THE MACHINES OR HAVE AN AUDITOR DO IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHO KNOWS WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE IN THERE BESIDES HAVING A MODEM.

>> Merritt: GO TO THE PUBLIC TEST.

>> Andy: THERE IS OBVIOUSLY RIGHT WAYS TO DO IT AS MERRITT HAS MENTIONED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SORT OF SHIFT PEOPLES' FOCUS ON THIS AND GET THEM TO STOP BEING CONCERNED ABOUT -- OR AT LEAST SORT OF COME TO IT AT A DIFFERENT ANGLE.

I AM NOT SURE HOW THAT IS DONE.

>> Gene: FAIR ENOUGH.

IT IS A HARD THING.

FEVER HAS TO BREAK SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY.

AS TIME GOES ON, MAYBE THAT IS PART OF THE ANSWER.

THANK YOU TO OUR PANELISTS FOR YOUR REACTIONS TO THE SITUATION IN OTERO COUNTY.

WE'LL MEET RIGHT BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUND TABLE IN LESS THAN ONE MINUTE TO TALK THROUGH OTHER POLITICAL DEVELOPMENTS, THIS TIME IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>> Garcia: THERE IS LOW INCOME FAMILIES.

THEY ARE NOT RICH AND THEY HAVE MANAGED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO LIVE IN THIS LAND AND FOR IT TO BURN IN SUCH A TRAGIC AND EXTREME WAY AND ON SUCH A LARGE SCALE, IT IS A MAJOR SHOCK AND IT IS VERY DEVASTATING.

>> Gene: WE ARE GETTING A FIRST LOOK AT HOW THE TWO LEADING CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR MATCHUP AGAINST EACH OTHER.

A RECENT POLL FROM PUBLIC POLICY POLLING SHOWS GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM LEADING REPUBLICAN NOMINEE MARK RONCHETTI, 45% FOR THE GOVERNOR TO 42% FOR MR. RONCHETTI.

LIBERTARIAN KAREN BEDONIE HOLDS 9% AND 5% SAY THEY ARE NOT SURE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT 5% IN THIS DISCUSSION.

ANDY, THAT IS A LOT CLOSER THAN MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE GUESSED THIS EARLY ON.

SHOULD THE GOVERNOR BE CONCERNED OR IS THIS JUST EARLY NUMBERS IN EARLY DAYS HERE?

>> Andy: THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION, ACTUALLY.

I WAS JUST THINKING THE OTHER DAY ABOUT HOW -- AND MAYBE IT IS JUST MY MEMORY IS NOT SERVING ME WELL -- BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT HAS GOTTEN RAMPED UP REALLY QUICKLY.

WE STILL HAVE A NUMBER OF MONTHS BEFORE THINGS ARE TECHNICALLY SUPPOSED TO START HEATING UP.

MAYBE IT IS THOSE NUMBERS.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT INTERNAL POLLING LOOKS LIKE.

AND SO I GUESS THAT IS MY FIRST OBSERVATION IS THAT RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE, THEY ARE NECK AND NECK.

SO I AM KIND OF WONDERING WHAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE IN THE COMING MONTHS AS THINGS SHIFT.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

MERRITT, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IF IT HAD SHOWN, SAY, LIKE A 10 POINT GAP FOR THE GOVERNOR, 12, 13, WHATEVER, THAT IS ONE THING.

THIS CLOSE, I GOT TO SAY THE RONCHETTI PEOPLE ARE THRILLED.

THEY HAVE THE VERY FIRST POLL OUT OF THE GATE, A PUBLIC POLL, HAVING IT BE THIS CLOSE.

WHAT DOES THAT DO TO A CAMPAIGN.

>> Merritt: LOOK BACK AT THE PRIMARY.

RONCHETTI SHIFTED FOCUS A COUPLE WEEKS BEFORE THE PRIMARY WHICH UP UNTIL THEN, RIGHT AS EARLY VOTING STARTED, HAD BEEN WHO IS MORE LOYAL TO TRUMP AND WHO IS GOING TO DO MORE ABOUT BORDER SECURITY AND SUDDENLY HE STARTED RUNNING AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.

AND THAT WAS A NOTED SHIFT.

HE DECIDED THAT HE HAD ALREADY WON THE PRIMARY AND HE WAS GOING TO START RUNNING A GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN AND THAT IS HOW HE FINISHED OUT THE PRIMARY.

SO I THINK HE POSITIONED HIMSELF AND STARTED THE MOVE TO THE CENTER AWAY FROM THE HARD RIGHT AND STARTED CAMPAIGNING AGAINST THE GOVERNOR EARLY WHILE HE WAS STILL REALLY COMMANDING AIR TIME AND THE INTEREST OF ALL VOTERS.

AND THAT WAS ALSO, OF COURSE, THE GOVERNOR SHE STARTED THOSE REALLY SMART 15 SECOND ALMOST PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT THE GREAT THINGS SHE HAD DONE FOR THE STATE.

AND SO I FEEL THAT RONCHETTI HAS ANSWERED HER POINT FOR POINT REALLY EFFECTIVELY.

SO, NO, I AM NOT SURPRISED BUT LET'S ALSO REMEMBER HE FINISHED BETTER THAN ANYONE THOUGHT HE WOULD IN THE SENATE RACE AS A RELATIVE NEWCOMER.

I MEAN WHEN YOU RUN FOR YOUR FIRST OFFICE WITH NO POLITICAL EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER, NO MANAGERIAL EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER AND YOU RUN FOR U.S.

SENATOR, THAT IS A PRETTY BIG MOVE.

SO, I WOULD SAY PEOPLE WANT TO CALL ON HIS EXPERIENCE AND SAY HE IS A POLITICAL NEOPHYTE.

I THINK THE AMOUNT OF MONEY HE RAISED AND HIS STRONG SHOWING IN HIS FIRST SENATE CAMPAIGN MAKES HIM READY TO TAKE ON THE GOVERNOR.

>> Gene: THIS IS AN INTERESTING POINT THERE.

FOR FOLKS WHO MAY NOT RECALL, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM WON 51.7% TO 45.6% FOR MR. RONCHETTI.

A LOT CLOSER THAN FOLKS MIGHT HAVE GUESSED AT THE TIME.

LAURA, INTERESTING THIS APPROVAL RATINGS, I AM ALWAYS -- THIS APPROVAL, DISAPPROVAL THING, THE GOVERNOR IS SHOWING 48% APPROVAL, 40% DISAPPROVAL.

DOES THAT MEAN ANYTHING IN THE LONG HAUL AS WE GET CLOSER TO ELECTION DAY?

WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN WHEN YOU HEAR OF SOMEBODY DISAPPROVING OF SOMEBODY'S PERFORMANCE.

>> Laura: I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT APPROVAL, DISAPPROVAL RATES, THEY ARE A POINT IN TIME, RIGHT?

THEY ARE DEFINITELY A POINT IN TIME, AS ARE THE PUBLIC POLL THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT.

NEW MEXICO ELECTIONS ARE ALWAYS CLOSE.

AT LEAST SINCE I HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO ELECTIONS, NEW MEXICO ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE EXTREMELY CLOSE.

SO AS WE GET CLOSER TO ELECTION DAY, WE ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THINGS SHIFTING BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY SHOULD BE TAKING THIS ONE FOR GRANTED.

IT IS THE WORST THING THAT DEMOCRATS CAN DO.

IT IS THE WORST THING THAT MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM CAN DO AND SHE HAS GOT A LOT OF FIGHT IN HER.

SHE IS A SEASONED PROFESSIONAL.

SHE IS DEFINITELY VERY GOOD ON THE STUMP AND ALSO GOOD IN THE DEBATE AND SHE HAS HAD A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DEBATE REAL ISSUES IN MANY RACES THAT SHE HAS RUN IN AND WON.

SO, I THINK SHE IS GOING TO BE VERY WELL PREPARED.

I AGREE WITH MERRITT THAT SHE IS EFFECTIVE WITH THE SHORT ALMOST PSA LIKE ADS THAT SHE DID LEADING UP TO THE ELECTION.

I SHOULD SAY LEADING UP TO THE PRIMARY.

RATHER THAN STAY OUT COMPLETELY, SHE TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE HERSELF IN A POSITIVE WAY AND REALLY SPEAK TO THE AVERAGE NEW MEXICAN.

AND SHE ALSO HAS SOME VERY GOOD POSITIVES.

SO, TRADITIONALLY, YOU SEE THE FIRST FEW ADS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE INTRODUCTORY.

WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE?

WHY ARE YOU RUNNING FOR THIS POSITION?

THAT SORT OF THING.

AND THEN THE NEXT FEW ADS OFTEN HAVE, LIKE THE TOM ROMERO AD, FORMER BERNALILLO POLICE CHIEF, TOM ROMERO TALKING ABOUT RONCHETTI'S LACK OF EXPERIENCE AND THAT HE IS A WEATHERMAN.

AND SO HE -- BASICALLY THOSE SORTS OF ADS THEN COME NEXT TRADITIONALLY WHERE YOU HAVE SOMEBODY VOUCHING FOR YOU.

WE CAN EXPECT RONCHETTI PROBABLY WILL HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR WITH A HIGH PROFILE PERSON TALKING ABOUT HIM BEING THE BEST PERSON.

AND THEN YOU START TO SEE THE NEGATIVE ATTACK ADS.

IN NEW MEXICO WE SEEM TO -- WE DON'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS FOLLOW THAT.

AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO GET UGLY QUICKLY, LIKE IT HAS IN EVERY OTHER ELECTION WE HAVE SEEN RECENTLY.

AND EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS LIKE RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER, IT AS LONG WAY AWAY, IT IS ONLY FOUR-AND-A-HALF MONTHS AWAY.

THAT IS NOT VERY LONG TO DO ALL THE MONEY RAISING, ALL THE ORGANIZING, TO DO EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO PREPARE FOR THAT ELECTION DAY AND THAT ELECTION PERIOD, WHICH, AS WE KNOW, IS LONGER THAN JUST ELECTION DAY.

SO, WE ARE GOING TO START TO SEE A LOT OF MORE NEGATIVE STUFF COMING QUICKLY AND I HOPE WE SEE ALSO SOME VERY GOOD DEBATES AND SOME REAL ISSUES DISCUSSED FROM BOTH SIDES.

>> Gene: THE DEBATES SHOULD BE FASCINATING, THERE IS NO DOUBT.

GLAD THE TWO OF YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.

ANDY ON THE AFOREMENTIONED TV ADS, NOT NECESSARILY THE ONES REINTRODUCING THE GOVERNOR, BUT ATTACKING MR. RONCHETTI FOR SOMETHING HE SEEMS PROUD OF, WHICH IS HIS LACK OF EXPERIENCE.

MR. TRUMP STARTED THIS TREND, OF COURSE, BY RUNNING AND WINNING ON BEING AN OUTSIDER, YOU KNOW, BUT AS WAS MENTIONED BY LAURA, THE GOVERNOR HAS A LONG LIST OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS, ALL OF WHICH ARE A PRODUCT OF KNOWING HOW TO GOVERN.

I AM CURIOUS HOW THE PUBLIC MIGHT, AND THROUGH YOUR EYES, SEE THIS, THE IDEA OF GOVERNING VERSUS JUST BEING A PERSONALITY AND HAVING THAT BE ENOUGH TO TAKE YOU OVER THE FINISH LINE HERE.

>> Andy: OBVIOUSLY TIME WILL TELL BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A TREND ALL OVER THE PLACE AND MAYBE I AM MISSING SOME DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES BUT YOU HAVE GOT DR. OZ RUNNING IN PENNSYLVANIA, THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE IN ARIZONA AS BEING A TRUMP ENDORSED FORMER NEWSCASTER, RIGHT?

SO IT IS SORT OF THIS RECOGNIZABLE FACE OUTSIDER, YOU KNOW, I AM GOING TO COME IN AND CLEAN THINGS UP.

I THINK WE HAVE SEEN SOME SUCCESSES IN OUR COUNTRY'S HISTORY OF THAT, BUT, YEAH, I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHERE THIS ALL GOES IF WE ARE GOING TO SEE THE PENDULUM SWING THE OTHER WAY AND SAY, NO MORE OUTSIDERS.

WE WANT PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND RUNNING AN ADMINISTRATION.

>> Gene: I HAVE OTHERS SAY THAT SAME THING, THAT FEVER IS GOING TO BREAK AT SOME POINT AND AT THE END YOU HAVE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHO CAN PUT TOGETHER A GOVERNMENT THAT IS FAIRLY COMPLICATED AND BE THE LEADER OF THAT.

MERRITT, INTERESTINGLY, I AM STILL ON THIS WEATHERMAN THING, TRUSTED WEATHERMAN DEAL.

BUT, AGAIN, IS HE VULNERABLE ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND WILDFIRES?

I AM WONDERING IF THE GOVERNOR HAS AN OPENING HERE BECAUSE MR. RONCHETTI HAS NOT EXACTLY BEEN TRUTHFUL ABOUT THIS IDEA OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

HE HAS DISPUTED IT.

IS THIS A VIABLE POSITION FOR THE GOVERNOR TO GO AFTER MARK RONCHETTI ON?

>> Merritt: HE CERTAINLY HAS GOTTEN BACKED INTO A CORNER IN PRIMARIES AND THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR REPUBLICANS IS THE ORTHODOXY REQUIREMENT IS SO STRICT IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T OFFER YOUR OWN OPINION ON ANYTHING.

AND, I THINK THE GOVERNOR CERTAINLY WOULD BE REMISS NOT TO POINT THAT OUT.

IT IS OLD.

I MEAN, THE COMMENTS ARE OLD BECAUSE HE DID THEN RUN ADS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF AS A SCIENTIST AND DID CORRECT THE RECORD SOMEWHAT.

HE IS ABSOLUTELY WILLING TO FLIP FLOP.

HE HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT.

YOU KNOW, HE IS A TRUMP DENIER.

NO, HE IS THE BIGGEST TRUMP SUPPORTER EVER.

WELL, WHICH IS HE?

CERTAINLY WILLING TO SAY WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN ELECTIONS.

AND THAT MAY BECOME AN ACHILLES HEEL FOR HIM IF THE GOVERNOR'S CAMPAIGN PEOPLE ARE SMART ABOUT IT.

I THINK THAT IS POSSIBLY HIS BIGGEST WEAKNESS.

AND, AS I SAID BEFORE, ACHILLES HEEL.

HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR, THE RECORD, SHE LOWERED TAXES, SHE MOVED TO THE CENTER.

SHE LOWERED TAXES BUT REALLY NOT IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX CUT, SOCIAL SECURITY -- TAX ON SOCIAL SECURITY HAS BEEN SOMETHING THE STATE HAS BEEN SCREAMING FOR A LONG TIME AND SO THAT I FEEL LIKE HAD TO HAPPEN.

I FEEL HER ADVOCACY WITH THE WILDFIRES HAS BEEN GOOD BUT THE STATEMENT SHE JUST MADE ABOUT NOT ACCEPTING MIGRANTS, I THINK THE JOURNAL HAD AN EXCELLENT EDITORIAL ABOUT IT, REALLY POLITICAL SHOWMANSHIP.

CYFD -- IF RONCHETTI DOES NOT HIT HER ON CYFD, HE'S MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE.

SO I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS HER OWN VULNERABILITIES HERE.

>> Gene: THE GUYS IN THE BOOTH SAY I HAVE ONE MORE MINUTE HERE AND I WANT TO ASK LAURA ABOUT THIS REAL QUICK.

THE GOVERNOR HOLDS ABOUT A 64% HISPANIC AND LATINO VOTE AS IT STANDS NOW.

I MEAN, THAT IS A BIG HILL TO CLIMB FOR MARK RONCHETTI IF YOU CAN'T GET THE HISPANIC AND LATINO VOTE HERE.

DOES THIS BODE WELL FOR THE GOVERNOR?

>> Laura: I THINK IT ABSOLUTELY DOES.

NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN VERY INTERESTING WHEN IT COMES TO HISPANIC VOTERS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RACE WHEN SUSANA MARTINEZ WAS ELECTED, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT TRADITIONALLY VOTED DEMOCRAT IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, IT IS NOT THAT THEY VOTED FOR HER NECESSARILY, THEY JUST DIDN'T VOTE -- SOMETHING DIDN'T CONNECT WITH THEM WHEN IT CAME TO DIANE DENISH AND SO MANY OF THEM -- YOU FOUND UNDER VOTE IN THAT ELECTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GOT COMFORTABLE WITH SUSANA MARTINEZ BEING THE FIRST HISPANIC GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO, FEMALE GOVERNOR, AND THE REPUBLICAN WAS NOT SORT OF A HUGE THING.

IT WAS POLITICALLY BUT I THINK IN TERMS OF IDENTITY, THERE WAS A SOURCE OF PRIDE THERE.

I THINK YOU SEE HERE MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM COMES FROM A VERY HISPANIC, LONG STANDING ROOTS IN NEW MEXICO, LUJAN FAMILY, ALSO REPUBLICAN TIES.

NOT COMPLETELY DEMOCRATIC IF YOU LOOK BACK AT HER FAMILY HISTORY.

BUT I THINK THERE IS AN ENORMOUS SENSE OF PRIDE THERE IN TERMS OF SUPPORT AMONG HISPANIC VOTERS AND SO PROVIDED THEY SHOW UP, AND THAT IS ALWAYS THE ISSUE, RIGHT?

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE IS A CONCENTRATED EFFORT TO MAKE SURE FOLKS SHOW UP AND THEY ARE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

THEIR ISSUES, THEIR CONCERNS DAY-TO-DAY ARE BEING ADDRESSED.

THAT IS DEFINITELY PART OF THE STRATEGY SHE WILL INCORPORATE AND SHE'LL DO WELL.

SHE HAS ENJOYED THEIR SUPPORT FOR A LONG TIME AND RONCHETTI WILL HAVE A HARD TIME BREAKING ANY OF THAT GROUP.

IT IS NOT A MONOLITHIC VOTING BLOCK BUT IT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO PEEL OFF VERY MANY VOTES FROM THAT.

>> Gene: THANK YOU, AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN TO OUR PANELISTS.

STAY WITH NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS LEADING UP TO THE GENERAL ELECTION FOR ALL OF THE IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENTS IN ALL THE KEY RACES.

THE PANEL JOINS US ONE MORE TIME IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL PROBE INTO A CHAVES COUNTY POLICE SHOOTING, BUT, FIRST, THE IMPACT OF WILDFIRES AND NOW FLOODING IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

CONSECUTIVE DISASTERS HAVE DESTROYED INFRASTRUCTURE ALONG THE AREAS ACEQUIAS WHICH ARE VITAL TO THE LANDSCAPE AND THE LIVELIHOODS OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO ACEQUIA ASSOCIATION, PAULA GARCIA, SPOKE WITH PRODUCER LOU DIVISIO ABOUT THE STRUGGLES HER COMMUNITY IS FACING.

>> Lou: THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL STRAIN ON THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE RECENTLY WITH THE FIRE AND SPECIFICALLY THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE, AND NOW FLOODING CONCERNS.

I KNOW IT IS HARD TO DESCRIBE OR CHARACTERIZE AN ENTIRE AREA THAT YOU COVER, BUT WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS, FIRST WITH THE FIRES AND NOW WITH THE FLOODING CONCERNS?

>> Garcia: WHAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED HERE IN THE AREA OF HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE IS A MAJOR SHOCK.

IT IS A MAJOR SHOCK TO PEOPLE AS INDIVIDUALS, AND TO ENTIRE COMMUNITIES AND AN ENTIRE REGION OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY THE FIRE.

FIRST, HAVING TO BE EVACUATED, MANY PEOPLE, HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE HAVE LOST HOMES AND WE ARE CONTEMPLATING WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS.

AND THERE IS SOME TRAUMA AND THERE IS A LOT OF SADNESS OVER THE LOSS OF BEAUTY.

THESE WERE LANDS BASED PEOPLE.

THERE IS A RICH AGRICULTURAL TRADITION HERE AND I WORK WITH ACEQUIAS.

AND SO FOR US, THERE IS A REAL DANGER OF LOSING OUR HEADWATERS, OUR FUTURE WATER SUPPLY.

AND, SO, WHAT THE FIRE HAS CAUSED IS DEVASTATION FOR THE ENTIRE REGION AND NOW, OF COURSE, WE ARE GOING TO GET PREPARED FOR FLOODING.

>> Lou: WHAT ARE STORIES YOU HAVE HEARD FROM PEOPLE, WHETHER IT IS RECOVERY AFTER THE FIRE OR NOW GETTING READY FOR THE POTENTIAL FLOODING?

>> Garcia: WHERE I GREW UP ON MY PARENTS RANCH, ABOUT HALF OF THE FORESTED LAND BURNED.

MY UNCLE HAS BEEN A LOGGER MOST OF HIS LIFE AND NOW HIS LIVELIHOOD HAS BEEN IMPACTED.

NOT ONLY DOES HE LOG TREES BUT ALSO MARKETS LANDSCAPING ROCKS.

SO THOSE KIND OF LAND-BASED BUSINESSES, LIVELIHOOD, RANCHING, YOU KNOW, GRAZING, LOGGING, LANDSCAPING MATERIAL, SELLING TREES FOR LANDSCAPING, THOSE LIVELIHOODS ARE DEVASTATED BY THIS FIRE.

AND I ALWAYS THINK THAT THIS PLACE, TO ME IT IS A MAGICAL PLACE.

IT IS A PLACE OF GREAT BEAUTY BUT IT IS ALSO A PLACE OF WHERE PEOPLE CAN STILL EARN, AT LEAST UNTIL THIS FIRE, PEOPLE COULD STILL EARN A LIVING FROM THE LAND.

AND THESE ARE LOW INCOME FAMILY.

THEY ARE NOT RICH AND WE MANAGED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO LIVE ON THIS LAND AND FOR IT TO BURN IN SUCH A TRAGIC AND EXTREME WAY ON SUCH A LARGE SCALE, IT IS A MAJOR SHOCK AND IT IS COMPLETE.

IT IS VERY DEVASTATING.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC COLLAPSE AND ECOLOGICAL COLLAPSE.

IT IS HARD TO SEE THE MOUNTAINS BLACK IN MANY OF THESE PLACES.

IT IS HURTFUL.

>> Lou: I AM SURE.

WHAT HAS THE IMPACT BEEN SPECIFICALLY ON THE ACEQUIAS THERE?

>> Garcia: FOR THE ACEQUIAS, THE IMPACT WILL BE DEVASTATING BECAUSE THE WATERSHEDS ARE CHARRED.

I HAVE BEEN TO PLACES IN THE UPPER WATERSHED, THEY LOOK LIKE A MOONSCAPE.

ALL THAT IS LEFT ARE BLACK TOOTHPICKS AND ASH.

AND WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH PHOEBE SUINA FROM COCHITI PUEBLO, WHO HAS AN ENGINEERING AND HYDROLOGY FIRM.

AND SHE HAS ADVISED US OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LOS CONCHAS FIRE IN CERRO GRANDE AND WHEN YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH INTENSITY BURN SCAR LIKE THAT, WE ARE LIKELY TO SEE SOME DEBRIS FLOW AND SOME HEAVY FLOODING.

AND FOR ACEQUIAS, ANY FLOOD IS BAD BECAUSE IT IMPACTS THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN YOUR FIELDS AND CAUSES EROSION BUT FLOODING FROM A BURN SCAR IS WORSE BECAUSE IT BRINGS ASH.

IT BRINGS THAT DEBRIS IN THE FIRE SO WE ARE WORRIED THAT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS GOING TO BE DAMAGED FROM THE DEBRIS FLOWS.

IN PAST FIRES, LIKE THE LITTLE BEAR FIRE IN LINCOLN COUNTY, WE SAW ACEQUIAS GET COMPLETELY SILTED OVER.

SOME OF THEM GOT DISLODGED.

THEIR CONCRETE HEADGATES WERE WASHED AWAY.

SO, THE ACEQUIAS ARE GOING TO BE HIT VERY HARD BY FLOODING THAT HAPPENS.

WE SPENT THE LAST MONTH AS SOON AS THE FIRE COOLED OFF, WE DEPLOYED MAPPING TEAMS TO MAP AS MANY ACEQUIAS AS WE CAN IN THIS AREA SO THAT IF THEY GET DAMAGED OR DESTROYED, WE HAVE THE MAPS TO PROVE THAT THEY EXISTED.

AND ALSO SO THAT WE CAN FILE WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR REPAIRS AND REPLACEMENT WHEN THAT COMES TO PASS.

SO, WE MAPPED OVER 30 ACEQUIAS IN TWO TO THREE WEEKS USING GPS AND GETTING OUT IN THE FIELD AND HAVING TEAMS HERE TO DO THAT.

>> Lou: YOU SUMMARIZED IT ALREADY BUT HOW IMPORTANT IS IT THAT THERE IS ASSISTANCE AVAILABLE FOR COMMUNITIES RATHER THAN JUST INDIVIDUALS?

>> Rep. Garratt: IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE SUPPORT FOR COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THIS IS COLLECTIVE INFRASTRUCTURE.

THIS IS INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE BUILT FOR GENERATIONS AND FEMA SET UP TO HELP INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED AND RIGHTLY SO, AND EVEN THAT HAS A LOT TO BE IMPROVED.

BUT, AS FAR AS THE ACEQUIA, I THINK FEMA IS ACCUSTOMED TO WORKING WITH COUNTIES AND MUNICIPALITIES.

THEY KNOW HOW TO WORK WITH INDIVIDUALS, EVEN THAT SHOULD BE BETTER, BUT CONVINCING THEM THAT ACEQUIAS ARE A POLITICAL SUBDIVISION AND MAKING SURE THAT THAT ENABLES US TO USE SOME RESOURCES IS PRETTY IMPORTANT BECAUSE REBUILDING, RECOVERY AND REBUILDING, IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE.

IT IS GOING TO BE SUBSTANTIAL.

WE NEED A MAJOR INVESTMENT IN THIS ENTIRE REGION FOR US TO BECOME VIABLE AGAIN AS A COMMUNITY JUST TO RESTORE BASIC FUNCTION.

>> LOU: IN ALBUQUERQUE AND OTHER CITIES PEOPLE MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING.

I GUESS THE REALITY THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED OF SMALL SCALE FARMING OF THE RELIANCE ON GROWING YOUR OWN FOOD AND WHAT THIS DOES TO THAT, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL TO THE REST OF NEW MEXICANS WHO DON'T HAVE THE SAME WAY OF LIFE THAT THEY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN YOUR AREA AND WHAT IS STILL HAPPENING THERE?

>> GARCIA: WHAT IS SO INTENSE ABOUT THIS DISASTER IS HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE AFFECTED AND THE EXTREME NATURE OF THE FIRE, YOU KNOW, INTENSITY OF THE FIRE AND THE POTENTIAL INTENSITY OF THE FLOODING AND SO OUR ENTIRE WAY OF LIFE IS AT STAKE.

AND IT IS A WAY OF LIFE THAT IS UNIQUELY NEW MEXICAN AND THIS IS SOMETHING I FEEL LIKE WE ARE THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

IT IS LIKE THE FRONT LINE OF WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS DOING TO WHAT WE USED TO THINK WAS A STABLE PLACE TO LIVE IS NOW VERY UNSTABLE.

JUST TODAY THERE IS A 70% CHANCE OF RAIN, POSSIBLY HEAVY RAINFALL, AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TO PUT SAND BAGS AT THE LAST MINUTE.

LIKE WE CAN'T HAVE A NORMAL DAY AS LONG AS THERE IS A FLASH FLOOD WATCH AND IF THERE IS A FLASH FLOOD WARNING, WE NEED TO GET OUT IMMEDIATELY.

AND SO THESE ARE FAMILIES THAT WERE ALREADY TRAUMATIZED BY EVACUATIONS.

SO LOST THEIR HOMES, YOU KNOW, THE FIRE EVACUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE WERE GONE FOR A WHOLE MONTH.

THEY JUST GOT HOME AND CLEANED UP THEIR SMOKE DAMAGE AND FIRE DAMAGE AND THEIR ROTTEN FREEZERS AND NOW WE ARE TRYING TO SURVIVE A FLOOD.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A TREMENDOUS HUMANITARIAN DISASTER.

AND WE HAVE PEOPLE WITH LIMITED MOBILITY WHO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET OUT IF THERE IS A FLASH FLOOD HAPPENING QUICKLY.

SO, IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS POTENTIALLY -- IT -- THESE ARE DISASTERS AND IT IS NOT A ONE-TIME THING.

THIS IS A DISASTER THAT IS ONGOING DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AND WE ARE BEING TOLD THAT FLOODING CAN HAPPEN, NOT JUST ONCE, BUT IT CAN HAPPEN FOR THE NEXT TWO, THREE OR FOUR YEARS, UNTIL THE WATERSHED STABILIZES AND ALL THAT DEBRIS AND ASH GOES THROUGH OUR WATERSHEDS AND DOWN OUR VALLEYS AND RIVERS INTO OUR FIELDS WHICH WE PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO PLANT OR GROW PASTURE FOR YEARS BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO BE CONTAMINATED WITH ALL THAT ASH.

WE HAVE A WAY OF SAYING IN THE ACEQUIAS, WE DON'T SAY, I AM A MEMBER OF THE DITCH.

IN SPANISH YOU SAY... [SPEAKING SPANISH] THAT MEANS, I BELONG TO THIS ACEQUIA.

AND THAT IS THE IDEA OF BELONGING THAT IS SO PROFOUND FOR BEING LAND-BASED PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR CENTURIES, THERE IS A SENSE OF BELONGING AND A SENSE THAT WE ARE CARETAKERS OF THIS PLACE AND THAT WE ARE GOING TO STAY AND HELP IT HEAL.

WE ARE GOING TO NEED SUPPORT AND I CAN SAY THAT THROUGH THIS EXPERIENCE I HAVE LEARNED A LOT BUT ONE THING I GAINED IS MORE EMPATHY.

AND JUST THINKING ABOUT JUST ANYBODY WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH A DISASTER.

>> GENE: THANK YOU TO PAULA GARCIA FOR SHARING HER COMMUNITY'S STORY THROUGH THE LARGEST FIRE IN STATE HISTORY.

AND NOW THOSE FLOODING CONCERNS, GOT TO WORRY ABOUT THAT TOO.

WELCOME BACK THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION THIS WEEK.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HAS OPENED AN INVESTIGATION INTO A POLICE SHOOTING IN CHAVES COUNTY.

IT HAPPENED MARCH 22.

HERE IS HOW IT WENT DOWN.

DEPUTIES WERE CALLED TO A DAIRY WHERE 34-YEAR OLD DAVID AGUILERA WAS TRYING TO STEAL TRACTORS.

DEPUTIES TRIED TO SUBDUE HIM WITH A TASER.

THEY EVENTUALLY GOT HIM INTO THE BACK OF THE PATROL VEHICLE BUT HE SLIPPED FREE OF THE HANDCUFFS AND CLIMBED INTO THE DRIVER'S SEAT OF THE VEHICLE AND IN POLICE BODY-CAM FOOTAGE, DEPUTIES COULD BE HEARD ORDERING HIM TO GET OUT OF THE CAR.

MR. AGUILERA APOLOGIZES BUT REFUSES.

DEPUTIES THEN OPEN FIRE, WHEN THE VEHICLE APPEARS TO ROLL FORWARD.

MR. AGUILERA DIED FROM HIS WOUNDS.

LET'S START BROADLY HERE, LAURA.

AS AN ATTORNEY, WHAT ARE YOUR REACTIONS TO THIS CASE WHEN YOU HEAR THIS.

AGAIN, THE DETAILS ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED HERE.

YOUR INITIAL GUT REACTION, I AM CURIOUS.

>> LAURA: ANY TIME THERE IS A POLICE INVOLVED SHOOTING, IT IS TERRIBLE.

IT IS TERRIBLE FOR THE FAMILY, THE VICTIM, TERRIBLE FOR THE OFFICERS WHO ARE INVOLVED.

IT IS NEVER THEIR FIRST, I THINK, DESIRE TO OPEN FIRE ON ANYBODY.

SO, IT IS IMPORTANT TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS AN IMPARTIAL THIRD PARTY DOING AN INVESTIGATION.

SO IN THIS CASE, IT IS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE LOCAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN CHAVES COUNTY ACTUALLY ASKED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO STEP IN AND DO THE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE THERE WAS A CONFLICT OF INTERESTS.

SHE FELT THERE WAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST THERE AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS DO THAT WHEN THERE IS A POTENTIAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN INVESTIGATING LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THAT WAY YOU GET AN IMPARTIAL THIRD PARTY TO COME IN AND LOOK AT IT AND NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF POTENTIAL CONFLICT AND AN ISSUE THAT WOULD CLOUD THEIR JUDGMENT WHEN IT COMES TO REVIEWING FACTS.

SO, I THINK THAT EARLIER REPORTS ARE THERE IS DEFINITELY CONFUSION ABOUT WHY WAS THE VEHICLE ROLLING?

WHAT EXACTLY WAS OCCURRING?

WAS HE HANDCUFFED?

WAS HE RESTRAINED IN SOME OTHER WAY.

ALL OF THESE THINGS WILL PLAY INTO THE FACT PATTERN HERE AND WHY IT WAS NECESSARY TO OPEN FIRE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT I DON'T THINK OFFICERS EVER -- IT IS NOT EVER THEIR FIRST APPROACH IF THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TRAINING DEFINITELY.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO JUST IMMEDIATELY GO FOR THEIR WEAPON UNLESS THERE IS SOME IMPENDING IMMEDIATE THREAT.

AND, SO, IF IT TURNS OUT THERE WAS A MISTAKE MADE, LAPSE IN JUDGMENT THAT CAUSED THIS, THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A NEED TO HAVE A LOT MORE TRAINING WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH SUSPECTS IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE, WHAT HE WAS BEING ACCUSED OF, I MEAN, PROPERTY DAMAGE, PROPERTY CRIMES ARE STILL A CRIME, BUT THERE DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE AN IMMINENT THREAT TO LIFE AT THAT POINT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT OCCURRED ONCE HE WAS IN CUSTODY OR WHAT THE FACTS WERE THAT LEAD TO THIS, AGAIN, VERY SAD SITUATION, I THINK, FOR THE COUNTY AND IMPORTANT FOR US TO WAIT UNTIL THERE IS AN ADEQUATE INVESTIGATION DONE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

ANDY, NOT THE FIRST CONTROVERSIAL POLICE SHOOTING IN CHAVES COUNTY.

DEPUTIES SHOT AND KILLED AN UNARMED 25 YEAR OLD MAN IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR.

DEPUTIES SAY IT APPEARED HE WAS REACHING FOR AN OBJECT IN HIS WAISTBAND BUT THERE WAS NONE.

NOW THE FAMILY OF OSCAR NAJERA IS SUING COMMISSIONERS FOR WRONGFUL DEATH.

AND I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THIS.

MENTAL HEALTH APPEARS TO BE A FACTOR.

HIS SISTER SAYS HE SUFFERED FROM A TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY AND WAS NOT A THREAT TO THE DEPUTIES.

YOU KNOW, IS THERE A THREAD HERE WE ARE SEEING WHEN IT COMES TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OF COURSE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND HOW TRAINING SORT OF FACTORS INTO ALL THESE THINGS.

>> Andy: A BIG FACTOR IN THAT IS THAT COMES UP A LOT, BUT YOU THROW IN THE MIX SORT OF SMALLER TOWN POLICE FORCE, WHETHER THAT IS COUNTY OR THE CITY OR BOTH, NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST COMPARISON, BUT I HAVE NOTICED THAT WHEN YOU GO TO PUBLIC MEETINGS IN SOME OF THESE SMALLER COMMUNITIES, IT IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS OR HOW TO ABIDE BY IT.

SAME THING WITH RECORDS REQUESTS.

YOU SORT OF LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE BUBBLE OF THE METRO AREAS OF NEW MEXICO AND SOMETIMES THESE THINGS GO UNCHECKED AND MAYBE THERE IS NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT SOMEBODY THERE SAYING, HEY, WE SHOULD REALLY THINK FORWARD ON THIS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THIS CRISIS TEAM BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THOSE SMALL TOWNS DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY NEED THAT.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, THIS HAPPENS AND HINDSIGHT IS 2020.

>> Gene: THIS ONE I GOT TO GET INTO THIS.

ANOTHER ACCUSATION HIGHLIGHTED IN THE LAWSUIT CONTENDS THE CHAVES COUNTY SHERIFF, QUOTE, ENTHUSIASTICALLY HIRES KNOWN PROBLEM COPS FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS, END QUOTE.

AND THE DEPUTY IN QUESTION HAD A PREVIOUS COMPLAINT OF EXCESSIVE FORCE.

HOW CONCERNING IS THAT AND THAT ACCUSATION ON ITS OWN RIGHT THERE?

>> Merritt: IT IS VERY CONCERNING AND PERHAPS SOMETHING THAT WILL COME UP IN AN UPCOMING SHERIFF'S ELECTION BUT BUILDING A LITTLE BIT ON ANDY'S POINT, THAT IS THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE WITH RURAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE HAVE A LIMITED POOL OF PEOPLE WILLING TO GO INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE STATE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE HIGHEST SALARIES ARE OFFERED BY STATE POLICE.

THEN STATE CORRECTIONS, THEN APD.

THEN I WOULD GUESS SANTA FE, LAS CRUCES, FALL IN THERE SOMEWHERE, MAYBE LOS ALAMOS, AND THEN EVERYONE ELSE, YOU KNOW, IS RURAL DEPARTMENT IN ROUGHLY THE SAME SALARY COMPETING FOR THE SAME WORKERS.

THESE OFFICERS ARE NOT WELL PAID.

THE DEMANDS ARE HIGH BECAUSE THE SMALLER A FORCE YOU HAVE THE MORE SHIFTS, THE FEWER DAYS OFF, THE MORE COVERAGE YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE.

THE STRESS IS HIGHER, PAY IS LESS, TRAINING IS LESS.

THERE ARE SIMPLY NOT THE RESOURCES FOR THINGS YOU WOULD EXPECT OUT OF APD AND THINGS YOU WOULD EXPECT OUT OF LAS CRUCES, THINGS THAT THE STATE POLICE ARE ABLE TO DO.

SO, TO ANDY'S POINT THERE IS NOT JUST A LOWER LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION, THERE IS SIMPLY FEWER RESOURCES TO GO AROUND.

SO, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE RESILIENCY TRAINING, TRAINING TO DEAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND THERE IS MORE OVERTIME.

THERE ARE FEWER DAYS OFF AND THEN YOU HAVE, PERHAPS, A CULTURE, MAYBE A COWBOY CULTURE WHERE YOU HAVE GOT A SHERIFF WHO SAYS, WE ARE THE BADDEST GUYS IN TOWN.

AND IF HE IS LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AFRAID TO GET INTO THE FIGHT, AS IT WERE, THAT ONLY EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM.

>> GENE: LAURA, INTERESTINGLY, MAY, 2020, ONE OF THE OFFICERS NOW USED TO BE WITH ROSWELL NOW WITH THIS FORCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, RICARDO DELGADO, HE WAS INVESTIGATED FOR DRAGGING A HANDCUFFED WOMAN OUT OF HIS POLICE CAR BY HER HAIR, SLAMMING HER FACE INTO THE PAVEMENT AND KNEELING ON HER NECK FOR THREE MINUTES.

AND THE ROSWELL POLICE DEPARTMENT FOUND THE INCIDENT WAS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF HOW OFFICERS SHOULD NOT CONDUCT THEMSELVES.

YOU KNOW.

IS THERE ANY TRACTION IN THE STATE ABOUT HIRING PROBLEM OFFICERS GOING FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT?

HAVE WE HAD ANY MOVEMENT ON THAT IN OUR STATE?

>> LAURA: YOU MEAN MOVEMENT TO PREVENT THAT?

>> GENE: YES MA'AM.

>> LAURA: NOT THAT I HAVE SEEN IN A CONCERTED EFFORT.

BUT I AM SURE IT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT AT THE LEGISLATURE BY VARIOUS PARTIES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE, THESE RURAL COMMUNITIES ARE SO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE SEE DAY-TO-DAY IN PLACES LIKE ALBUQUERQUE.

IT IS FUNNY TO HEAR ANDY CALL IT SMALL TOWNS.

BECAUSE IF YOU LIVE IN THE SOUTHEAST PART OF THE STATE, ROSWELL IS A BIG CITY DOWN THERE.

SO, IT IS NOT -- TO US IT IS A SMALL TOWN BUT PEOPLE IN DEXTER, HAGERMAN, ARTESIA, ROSWELL IS WHERE YOU GO TO SAM'S CLUB BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE IN THAT REGION WHERE YOU CAN GO TO SAM'S CLUB.

SO THEY HAVE GOT -- MAYBE SMALLER POPULATION, BUT THEY HAVE SOME BIG CITY PROBLEMS IN ROSWELL.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A CRIME ISSUE.

THERE IS DRUG PROBLEMS.

PROPERTY CRIME AND VIOLENT CRIME.

SO I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO RECOGNIZE THERE IS A LOT MORE RESOURCES THAT NEED TO BE PULLED IN FOR SOME OF THESE RURAL COMMUNITIES AND TRAINING IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF IT.

BUT IT ISN'T JUST A SMALL TOWN ISSUE.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WAS IN THE NEWS NOT TOO LONG AGO, IN LAS CRUCES THERE WAS AN ELDERLY LADY WHO HAD DEMENTIA THAT WAS SHOT ON A PORCH AFTER NOT RESPONDING TO OFFICERS' REQUEST TO PUT A KNIFE DOWN.

THE LADY HAD DEMENTIA AND AS SOMEBODY WHO HAD TO DEAL WITH MY MOM WHO HAD DEMENTIA AND HAD GOOD DAYS AND BAD DAYS, AS ANYBODY WHO HAS DEALT WITH THAT ISSUE.

THERE HAS TO BE A LOT MORE TRAINING FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CRISIS SITUATIONS.

AND THERE IS JUST SO MANY LIMITATIONS, NOT JUST IN PERSONNEL THE WAY THAT MERRITT TALKED ABOUT, BUT JUST IN TERMS OF GETTING THE RIGHT INFORMATION INTO PEOPLES' HANDS WHEN THEY ARE ON THE FRONT LINE.

A LOT MORE FUNDING NEEDS TO GO INTO THAT.

>> GENE: THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS OUR LINE OPINION PANEL COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

IF YOU HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE TO WORK WITH A LONG-TERM COLLEAGUE, YOU KNOW HOW TOUGH IT IS TO LOSE THEM, WHICH IS THE SITUATION WE HAVE HERE AT NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, AS WE SAY GOOD-BYE TO OUR LONG-TERM EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, KEVIN MCDONALD.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE NAME, YOU CERTAINLY KNOW THE WORK.

EVERYTHING YOU SEE BOTH ON THE LINE AND THE ENTIRE IN FOCUS SHOW WAS CONCEIVED, NURTURED AND GROWN THROUGH THE WORK OF KEVIN.

16 YEARS AGO, NEW MEXICO PBS FRIDAY NIGHTS SWEEP HAD NUMBER OF LONG-TERM SHOWS FAMILIAR TO MANY OF YOU, I AM SURE.

KEVIN MCDONALD IS THE MAIN ARCHITECT AND VISIONARY WHO GUIDED OUR EVOLUTION TO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.

I AM GOING TO MISS HIM A LOT.

IT HAS BEEN AN HONOR TO WORK SIDE BY SIDE WITH HIM.

A LOT HAS TRANSPIRED OVER THE LAST 16 YEARS, A LOT OF IDEAS AND DECISIONS, BUT MOST OF ALL, A LOT OF TRUST.

THAT'S HARD TO FIND THESE DAYS AND THANK YOU KEVIN FOR EVERYTHING AND IN YOUR NEW ENDEAVORS.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.