that seafood produced with forced labor is# making its way to American dinner tables.

That's despite a U.S. ban on imports# made by workers from China's Xinjiang## province.

The region in northwest# China is home to Muslim minority## Uyghurs, who have been the victims of# well-documented human rights violations John Yang has more.

If you buy frozen seafood# at the grocery store or order fish at a chain## restaurant, chances are pretty good that it was# caught by a Chinese fishing vessel or processed## in a Chinese plant.

China runs what may be# the largest maritime operation ever known.

An investigation by the not-for-profit# journalism organization called The Outlaw## Ocean Project has documented human# rights, labor, and environmental## concerns related to the Chinese fleet.

As# Outlaw Ocean founder Ian Urbina tells us## in this excerpt from the group's reporting,# Chinese fishing ships rely on forced labor.

IAN URBINA, Executive Editor, The Outlaw# Ocean Project: Foreign journalists are## generally forb had to rely on a range of publicly available# materials, including company newsletters,## local news reports, trade data,# satellite imagery, and social media.

MAN: But the real kind of key to our# investigation became the use of the## Chinese version of TikTok, which is called Douyin.

IAN URBINA: Videos posted by Uyghurs# from sea live in military-style dormitories# under the watch of security personnel.

Uyghur workers' dorms are often searched,# and if a Koran or other contraband is found,## the owner may be sent to a reeducation camp.# Uyghurs' social media posts are also closely## monitored by Chinese online censors.

Posting# anything critical of the regime could quickly land## them in a detention center.

But it appears that# many Uyghurs have found a way to include cryptic## messages in their videos to convey their suffering# while also bypassing the Chinese censors.

Thousands of tons of seafood processed# in China with forced labor continue## to enter the United States and Europe.# Importers sent their products to major## supermarkets around the world, including# Walmart, Kroger, Tesco, and Carrefour.

The importers also sent seafood to Cisco,# the global food service giant that supplies## more than 400,000 restaurants in the# U.S. alone.

Over the past five years,## the U.S. government spent more than $200# million to buy seafood from importers'## linked to Uyghur labor for use in military# bases, federal prisons, and public schools.

JOHN YANG: This investigation represents# four years of work by Ian Urbina,## the executive editor of The Outlaw Ocean Project.

And how did you find that this labor, putting# the Uyghur sort of fit in, in the Chinese# overall strategy in dealing with## the Uyghurs?

The Uyghurs are# a Muslim minority in China.

IAN URBINA: Yes.

Uyghurs in Xinjiang and disperse them elsewhere# in the country to sort of pacify the population,## if you will.

So there's a huge state-run# labor transfer program with thousands## of Uyghurs that are forcibly removed# from this inland province, Xinjiang,## and transported 2,000 miles away to the other# side of the country to work in the factories.

And it's all part of an effort to sort of# bring this restive province under control.

JOHN YANG: Ian, you talked to about# more than two dozen of the crew members,## people who worked on these ships.# What did they tell you about the## conditions they worked under and# the conditions of their employment?

IAN URBINA: Yes, I mean, we found a lot# of forced labor and trafficked labor.

Before COVID, a lot of these workers# are Indonesian, after COVID, largely## rural Chinese.

They're pretty nervous to talk# openly when we were on board, but you could the conditions.

There are a lot of reports of# violence on board and neglect, severe neglect.

JOHN YANG: And these ships often# don't return to port for two years,## stay at sea for two years.

How did# you manage to talk to these people?

IAN URBINA: Yes, it was a process.

Typically, it takes several days just to# high seas.

Once we're out there, we make# radio contact with the capta warm the captain up and see if he will let# us on board.

If not, oftentimes, the ships## would flee and we'd get and board a faster vote# called a skiff and follow the fishing sh And, in those cases, we'd put messages in a bottle# asking questions of the crew in Bahasa Indonesian,## or Chinese and English, and throw# the bottles onto the back of the ship## and then follow them until the crew# threw the bottles back with answers.

JOHN YANG: And not only answers,# but some of them asking for help,## some of them giving you phone numbers.

IAN URBINA: Yes.

because then we could contact families# ba those families how long they'd been gone and# sort of what they knew of their lost fam JOHN YANG: You also found# violations of law and the## way they fished and also environmental violations.

IAN URBINA: Yes, many cases of shark-finning, of# invasions of sovereignty.

So and often these vessels are aggressively# going into waters where they're forbidden,## Argentinean, Chilean, Ecuadorian# waters, where they're not allowed.

So, we documented those cases just# to show how pervasive the problem is.

JOHN YANG: And how are they# able to escape enforcement## and escape inspection and that sort of thing?

IAN URBINA: These vessels# largely are on the hig and this is an area that's very hard to get to The vessels are in constant motion.

And most# countr out there patrolling their own waters, much less# the high seas.

So these are wo are largely out of reach of governments.# And that's why they can do as they please.

JOHN YANG: And there were also signs# that these ships were doing more tha fishing or fishing for other things in a way.

IAN URBINA: Yes, I mean, China's# fishing fleet is in many ways of an arm of its geopolitical agenda.# It's sort of a projection of power.

And so, if you look at places like the South# China Sea, contested waters in that area,## the fishing fleet is essentially acting as a# civilian militia.

And you have enough fishing## vessels there that they can crowd around# other countries vessels and crowd around## islands that are in contested waters and sort# of establish sovereignty and show muscle.

JOHN YANG: It's an ambitious project, and# you found out some very interesting things.

Now, where can people read and see your reporting?

IAN URBINA: With "The New# Yorker" on their Web site.

JOHN YANG: Very good.

IAN URBINA: Thanks for having me.