>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.ORG RWJBARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

AND BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY "NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE," THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WELL, JUST A WEEK TO GO BEFORE THE START OF THE SUMMER TOURIST SEASON AND NEW JERSEY IS STILL UNDER AN INDOOR MASK MANDATE.

WHICH HAS AN ALREADY STRESSED OUT BUSINESS COMMUNITIES CALLING FOR THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION TO GET ON BOARD WITH ITS NEIGHBORS AND LIFT THE BAN.

THEY SAY EVERY DAY THE BAN IS IN PLACE REPRESENTS ANOTHER DAY OF LOST BUSINESS.

LET'S GET THE LATEST NOW FROM THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE NEW JERSEY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, TOM BRAKEN.

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME, DAVID.

PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> SO, WE KEEP HEARING THAT A THIRD OF THE BUSINESSES THAT CLOSED OVER THE PAST YEAR ARE NEVER COMING BACK.

FROM WHERE YOU SIT, WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE STATE'S BUSINESS COMMUNITY?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER, 30%, I'VE HEARD, TO SAY IN SOME CASES EVEN HIGHER IN THE RESTAURANT COMMUNITY, AND THEY ARE -- SOME WILL NEVER COME BACK.

I THINK SOME WILL BE RELUCTANT TO COME BACK BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY IN RESTARTING, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THE WORST IS OVER.

WE'RE STARTING TO SEE SOME GLIMMERS OF HOPE AS VACCINATIONS PICK UP AND THE GOVERNOR CONTINUES TO OPEN UP, ESPECIALLY WITH OUTDOOR VENUES.

THAT'S A POSITIVE SIGN.

MY GUESS IS NEAR TERM, THE INDOOR ISSUE WILL BE RESOLVED BECAUSE THE COVID NUMBERS CONTINUE TO DROP, AND VACCINATIONS CONTINUE TO GO UP.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE READY.

I THINK VACCINATIONS WILL BE THE KEY, AND WE ARE WORKING VERY HARD WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO GET VACCINATIONS, THE PACE PICKED BACK UP SO WE CAN GET TO WHAT THEY NOW CALL COMMUNITY PROTECTION, WHICH USED TO BE CALLED HERD IMMUNITY, AND I THINK THAT'S THE KEY FOR BUSINESSES TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN START TO FULLY RECOVER.

SO, WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF IT.

WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY, I THINK, TO GET IT TAKEN OVER THE FINISH LINE HERE.

>> WHO'S BEEN THE HARDEST HIT?

HAS IT BEEN THE ENTERTAINMENT SIDE OF IT, BARS, RESTAURANTS, THAT KIND OF THING?

HAVE THEY GOTTEN THE -- FELT THE HARDEST IMPACT?

>> OH, BY FAR.

I THINK THE RESTAURANT AND BAR COMMUNITY HAS BEEN THE POSTER CHILD FOR ECONOMIC DEVASTATION AND AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE HEARD THE NUMBER OF 30% FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, BUT I'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF 40% PLUS FOR RESTAURANTS AND BARS, SO IT'S A SEGMENT OF OUR ECONOMY THAT HAS BEEN DEVASTATED AND THEY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED SOME SEGMENTED RELIEF FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THROUGH THE SBA AND I HOPE THAT'S HELPED THEM BUT NOW THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT ISSUE, WHICH IS TRYING TO FIND PEOPLE TO WORK FOR THEM.

SO, THEY HAD AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM WITH DOLLARS BEFORE.

NOW THEY HAVE A DOLLAR WITH THE ISSUE OF HAVING DIFFICULTY FINDING WORKERS, SO IT HAS NOT BEEN EASY FOR THEM, AND I HOPE THAT THEY GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY CAN RECOVER VERY SOON.

>> I WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT EMPLOYER-EMPLOYEE THING IN A MINUTE, BUT HAS NONE OF THAT HELPED FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT, HAS IT MADE A DIFFERENCE FOR ANYBODY?

>> ABSOLUTELY IT HAS, DAVID.

I MEAN, THE PPP LOANS, THE EDA TO THE EXTENT THEY COULD CONTRIBUTE DOLLARS, YOU KNOW, THE EDA AND THE STATE DOESN'T HAVE THE BALANCE SHEET TO DO AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT THEY'VE PROVIDED SOME SIGNIFICANT GRANTS TO PEOPLE AND THAT'S HELPED.

THE SBA HAS PROVIDED MONEY.

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, MANY OUTLETS THAT HAVE PROVIDED FUNDING TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

HAS IT HELPED SOME SURVIVE?

YES.

HAS EVERYBODY SURVIVED AND GOT MONEY?

NO.

BUT WITHOUT THAT MONEY, I REALLY AM AFRAID TO THINK WHERE WE WOULD BE.

SO, IT HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT, BUT YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, PPP IS OVER.

THE EDA FUNDS ARE, I THINK, PROBABLY DONE FOR A WHILE.

THE SBA STILL HAS SOME PROGRAMS, BUT THERE'S NOT MUCH FUNDING LEFT, AND WE ARE WORKING HARD TO TRY TO GET SOME OF THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN MONEY REALLOCATED TO BUSINESSES TO GET THEM -- THE ONES THAT AREN'T THERE, TO GET THEM THE FINANCIAL ABILITY TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN START TO RECOVER.

SO, MONEY IS STILL NEEDED, AND THE STATE HAS A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT NOW, AND WE HOPE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THAT IS ALLOCATED TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

>> THESE INDOOR MASK MANDATES, THE GOVERNOR SAYS HE DOESN'T WANT TO PUT BUSINESS IN THE POSITION OF HAVING TO DETERMINE WHO'S VACCINATED AND WHO ISN'T.

THAT SEEMS FAIR, NO?

>> YEAH, AND I HAVE SEEN REPORTS ON YOUR -- ON NJ PBS WHERE RESTAURANT OWNERS HAVE CONFRONTED THEIR PATRONS ABOUT THAT, AND THEY'VE ASKED THEM TO LEAVE.

SO, YEAH, I THINK IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION TO PUT THEM IN, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT.

>> SO, WE HAD MICHELLE ON A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

SHE'S THE HEAD OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.

WE ASKED HER WHAT KIND OF COMMUNICATION THERE HAD BEEN BETWEEN HER GROUP AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

SHE SAID BASICALLY THERE WAS NONE.

HOW HAS COMMUNICATION BEEN BETWEEN THE CHAMBER AND THE ADMINISTRATION?

>> WE HAVE HAD COMMUNICATION.

WE AGREE TO DISAGREE ON ISSUES, BUT I THINK WE ALSO ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE DONE AND WE ARE COMMUNICATING QUITE A BIT RIGHT NOW ON THE VACCINATION ISSUE, TRYING TO HELP THE OPERATION JERSEY SUMMER MANDATE OR PROGRAM THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED.

WE WANT TO HELP THAT BECOME FULLY OPERATIONAL, GET VACCINATIONS UP, GET THE COMMUNITY PROTECTION SOON, SO YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION ON DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE DON'T ALWAYS GET THE ANSWER WE LIKE OR WE WANT, BUT WE'VE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION, AND I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH VACCINATIONS, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN US AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

>> ALL RIGHT, IN ABOUT THE TWO MINUTES I HAVE LEFT, THE QUESTION ABOUT THE SO-CALLED WORKER SHORTAGE.

EMPLOYERS ARE COMPLAINING THAT THE STATE'S EXTRA $300 A WEEK UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT IS KEEPING WORKERS HOME.

GOVERNOR MURPHY SAYS, THAT'S NOT GOING TO END UNTIL SEPTEMBER.

IS THERE SOME EVIDENCE OTHER THAN ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS REALLY KEEPING PEOPLE FROM TAKING THESE JOBS AT THESE BARS AND RESTAURANTS AND VENUES LIKE THAT?

>> YEAH, I THINK, DAVID, THAT'S A VERY BIG CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO PEOPLE NOT COMING BACK TO WORK, BUT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TOO.

I THINK THE SAFETY FACTOR OF PEOPLE NOT FEELING SAFE IN THE OFFICE OR FEELING SAFE IN PATRONIZING RETAIL STORES IS A PROBLEM.

THAT'S WHY GETTING TO COMMUNITY PROTECTION, GETTING THE VACCINATIONS TO THAT LEVEL IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

>> DOESN'T IT ALSO SUGGEST THAT EMPLOYERS MAYBE NEED TO UP THEIR GAME A LITTLE BIT?

I MEAN, IT'S COMPETITION, IN THIS CASE, IT'S FROM THE STATE, IN THEORY, BUT DON'T EMPLOYERS NEED TO UP THEIR GAME IN TERMS OF INCREASING SALARIES AND/OR BENEFITS FOR THESE JOBS, WHICH ARE OFTEN THE LOWEST-PAYING JOBS YOU CAN FIND.

>> YEAH.

BUT THAT'S A LONG-TERM PROBLEM FOR EMPLOYERS.

THE BEST SITUATION IS THAT -- AND TO DO WHAT OTHER STATES HAVE DONE.

OTHER STATES HAVE USED THEIR AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN MONEY TO PROVIDE BACK-TO-WORK BONUSES TO PEOPLE TO PAY THEM TO COME BACK TO WORK IN LIEU OF TAKING THE $300 ADDITIONAL SUPPLEMENT FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR UNEMPLOYMENT.

SO, I THINK A BACK-TO-WORK BONUS IS THE BEST OPTION AND COULD BE A VERY FINE AND EFFECTIVE USE OF THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN DOLLARS THAT THE STATE HAS.

THAT WOULD GET PEOPLE PAID MONEY TO INCENT THEM TO COME BACK TO WORK.

IF YOU JUST INCREASE YOUR WAGES TO DO THAT, THEN YOU HAVE THE LONG-TERM PROBLEM OF HAVING THE BIGGEST EXPENSE IN YOUR COMPANY BEING EXAGGERATED, AND NOBODY WANTS TO DO THAT.

>> ALL RIGHT, TOM BRACKEN, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE NEW JERSEY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, MAN.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANKS A LOT, DAVID.

>> LET'S BRING OUR PANEL IN NOW, BRENT JOHNSON IS THE POLITICS REPORTER FOR NJ ADVANCE MEDIA.

DANIEL MUNOZ IS A REPORTER WITH NJ BIZ AND MICHAEL AARON IS A CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR NJ NEWS.

DANIEL, LET ME START WITH YOU ON JOBS.

WE KEEP HEARING FROM EMPLOYERS THAT WORKERS ARE STAYING HOME AND NOT LOOKING FOR WORK BECAUSE OF THIS UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT.

JUST TALKING TO TOM BRACKEN ABOUT IT.

HAVE YOU SEEN ANY REAL EVIDENCE OF THIS?

>> IT'S BEEN EITHER THE -- WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM RESTAURANT OWNERS IS THE $300 A WEEK UNEMPLOYMENT BONUS CAUSING ISSUES.

OTHER LABOR RIGHTS GROUPS HAVE SAID IT'S THE LACK OF WORKER PROTECTIONS, LACK OF WORKER SAFETY.

THEY DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE THEY WERE CARED FOR, APPRECIATED DURING THE PANDEMIC AND BEFORE THE PANDEMIC AND THEY'RE HESITANT TO WANT TO GO BACK TO THOSE KINDS OF CONDITIONS, SO I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF THESE THINGS, MAINLY ANECDOTALLY.

>> SO, GOVERNOR MURPHY HAS BEEN GOVERNING UNDER EMERGENCY AUTHORITY, ISSUING EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT ESSENTIALLY HAVE THE EFFECT OF LAW WITHOUT ANY LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL REQUIRED.

MICHAEL AARON, LAWMAKERS WERE SUPPOSED TO PASS A BILL CURTAILING SOME OF THOSE POWERS, BUT THE BILL GOT PULLED AT THE LAST MINUTE AFTER OBJECTIONS WERE RAISED.

EVIDENTLY, SOME DEMOCRATS PUSHED BACK.

DO WE KNOW ANY MORE ON THIS?

>> WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE HANG-UP IS.

WE CAN LOOK AT THE SITUATION AND SEE THAT WHILE WE KNOW REPUBLICANS WOULD LIKE TO TAKE POWER BACK FROM THE GOVERNOR ON ALL MANNER OF THINGS RELATED TO PANDEMIC MANAGEMENT, BUT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO HOLD UP A BILL.

THERE MUST BE SOME DEMOCRATS WHO DON'T GO ALONG WITH THIS, WHO THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS USURPED TOO MUCH POWER AND WHO WANT TO NEGOTIATE MORE OF THE DETAILS.

THERE ARE 15 EXCEPTIONS IN THIS SITUATION.

WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THE GOVERNOR SAYS, I'LL GIVE UP MY EMERGENCY POWERS, BUT I NEED TO RETAIN 15 OF THEM.

THERE ARE 15 EXCEPTIONS TO WHAT I'M GIVING BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE, AND SOMEWHERE WITHIN THOSE 15 ARE SOME STICKING POINTS THAT ARE KEEPING DEMOCRATS FROM SIGNING ON.

WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS WHETHER THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE LEADERS OR JUST A COUPLE OF RUN OF THE MILL DEMOCRATS IN BOTH HOUSES WHO HAVE OBJECTION OF ONE SORT OR ANOTHER.

>> BRENT, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE?

THE SPEAKER SAYS WE GOT TO GET THIS BILL RIGHT.

GET WHAT RIGHT?

DO WE KNOW WHAT SOME OF THE LAWMAKERS ARE OBJECTING TO?

>> YEAH, WE DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S -- >> IT'S WEIRD.

>> IT'S NOT JUST THE GOVERNOR BUT ALL 120 SEATS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE ARE ON THE BALLOT, SO I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT SOME LAWMAKERS FROM BOTH PARTIES HAD PUSHBACK FROM CONSTITUENTS AND THAT THEY GOT A LITTLE SPOOKED IN AN ELECTION YEAR.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ALSO A VERY CONFUSING ORDER, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WOULD ASSUME THE GOVERNOR, OF COURSE, WOULD HAVE POWERS TO DO THINGS DURING EMERGENCY, BUT REPUBLICANS HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE DOING THIS WITHOUT LAWMAKERS.

LAWMAKERS SHOULD HAVE A SAY, BECAUSE THEY'RE THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

SO -- AND THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION IN THE PANDEMIC.

THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS, AND I FEEL THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GOT CAUGHT UP IN IT, AND I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, I'M UNAWARE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THE STATE HAS BEEN OPENING UP AND WILL CONTINUE TO, SO WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS HERE WITH THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

>> YEAH.

DAN, A LOT OF THINGS ARE DEPENDENT ON THE EMERGENCY DECLARATION, INCLUDING AN EVICTION MORATORIUM AND SOME OTHER STUFF.

THE CLOCK STARTS TICKING ONCE THE EMERGENCY IS DECLARED OVER, NO?

>> RIGHT.

FOR THE EVICTION MORATORIUM, I THINK THAT HAS BEEN A REALLY HAIRY ISSUE.

I THINK THAT THE STATE COURT SYSTEM IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE AHEAD WITH -- I THINK THE PHRASE HAS BEEN A TSUNAMI OF EVICTIONS, SO I THINK THERE ARE SOME TALKS ABOUT MAYBE MAKING IT HARDER TO EVICT A TENANT, BUT THE LANDLORD CAN STILL SUE THE TENANT FOR BACK RENT, AND I GUESS ON THE BUSINESS SIDE, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO THEY HAD FOLKS WHO BOUGHT A HOUSE, THEY SPENT A LOT OF MONEY TO BUY THE HOUSE TO RENOVATE IT TO FLIP IT, TO MAKE IT A REALLY NICE PLACE TO LIVE, SO THEY'RE ALWAYS IN A VERY BAD FINANCIAL SITUATION BECAUSE OF THIS, SO THERE'S A LOT OF PAIN ON BOTH SIDES FOR THE TENANTS AND THE LANDLORDS.

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN CRISS CROSSING THE STATE OFFERING INCENTIVES TO THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET GOTTEN VACCINATED.

MICHAEL AARON, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THESE SHOT AND A BEER AND FREE PASSES TO THEME PARKS?

WILL DINNER WITH THE MURPHYS AT THE BEACH HOUSE IN ISLAND BEACH STATE PARK REALLY ATTRACT PEOPLE WHO ARE RELUCTANT TO GET VACCINATIONS?

>> IT'S A CUTE GIMMICK.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE WILL REALLY BASE THEIR VACCINATION DECISION ON WHETHER THEY GET TO HAVE A SHOT AND A BEER OR, I THINK THERE ARE NINE WINERIES THAT ARE OFFERING A GLASS OF WINE FOR FREE IF YOU GET VACCINATED IN THE MONTH OF MAY.

AND THE MURPHYS HAVE, OF COURSE, OFFERED THEMSELVES AS DINNER COMPANIONS.

IT'S CUTE PUBLIC RELATIONS.

I DON'T THINK IT ADDS UP TO MUCH.

>> YEAH.

BRENT, WE GOT NEWS THIS WEEK THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DEPOSITED SOME $6.3 BILLION INTO THE STATE'S BANK ACCOUNT AND THE TREASURER FAILED TO MENTION IT TO ANYBODY, WHICH RAISED SOME HACKLES IN THE STATE HOUSE.

WHY EVERYBODY SO MAD?

>> WELL, AGAIN, THE OTHER GREAT THING ABOUT THIS -- I MEAN, THE BIG UPROAR IN THIS PANDEMIC HAS BEEN, WELL, WE CAN SHUT DOWN ALL THESE BUSINESSES AND PUT ALL THESE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE, BUT WE NEED MONEY TO HELP PEOPLE AND TO FLESH OUT ACCOUNTS, SO IT'S A TOUCHY SUBJECT, MONEY, THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC, FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED IT AND GOVERNMENTS WHO NEED IT AND I FEEL THAT -- THIS IS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT, YOU KNOW, UPSETS SOME LAWMAKERS FOR BOTH SIDES.

SO, YEAH, I FEEL LIKE THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE CLARITY ON THIS.

>> I MEAN, SO, IT'S KIND OF WEIRD, RIGHT?

IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T CHECK YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AND THE NEXT DAY, YOU CHECK AND, OH, I GOT $6.9 BILLION.

BUT WHAT IS THE NET EFFECT OF THAT?

SO WHAT?

I MEAN, DOES IT -- ARE SOME PEOPLE TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT THE STATE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISPERSING THIS MONEY?

>> I THINK PEOPLE ARE SURPRISED BY HOW FLUSH THE STATE IS A YEAR AFTER THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT STATE SPENDING EXPECTED THIS TO BE AN INCREDIBLE CRISIS.

GO BACK A YEAR AND YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE STATE WOULD BE ON ITS KNEES, FISCALLY, WHEN IN FACT, WE HAVE THIS -- SOME COUNT $10 BILLION IN FEDERAL AID COMING OUR WAY, WHICH IS 25% OF THE BUDGET.

AND OUR ECONOMY HAS RECOVERED REASONABLY WELL FROM THIS ONCE-IN-A-CENTURY CRISIS THAT'S BEEN COMPARED TO THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

THERE SEEMS TO BE MONEY OUT THERE, AND I'M -- I THINK WE SHOULD ALL BE GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

>> HOW DID THAT HAPPEN, MICHAEL?

HOW DID THE -- THE PREDICTIONS WERE QUITE DIRE, BUT SUDDENLY, AS YOU SAID, THE STATE IS FLUSH WITH CASH.

WHAT HAPPENED?

WHAT WAS THE DISCONNECT?

>> I THINK THE FEDERAL RESERVE DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF PUMPING MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY AND THAT THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS HAVE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF GIVING OUT STIMULUS MONEY, $1,400 HERE, $1,200 THERE.

I THINK THAT'S WORKED.

>> DAN, MURPHY IS A HOLDOUT ON THIS MASK MANDATE.

IS IT HURTING HIM?

I IMAGINE WITH BUSINESS, PROBABLY YES, BUT IS THE MESSAGE BASICALLY, WE'RE NOT THERE YET?

IS THAT LANDING WITH RESIDENTS/POTENTIAL VOTERS?

>> I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF -- IT'S A VERY HARD SITUATION WHEN THE CDC SAYS IT'S SAFE TO NOT WEAR A MASK IF YOU'RE VACCINATED, BUT THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING, NO, YOU'VE STILL GOT TO WEAR A MASK.

I THINK THAT MOTIVATION EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO WOULD WEAR A MASK AND WOULD SORT OF BE LIKE, OKAY, I GOT TO DO THIS, ARE, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CRATERING MOTIVATION.

I DO -- FROM WHAT I HAVE READ, THAT HAS LED TO A LOT OF DISGRUNTLED LAWMAKERS IN THE GOVERNOR'S OWN PARTY, IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AND THAT COULD BE WHAT'S SHOOTING HIM IN THE FOOT IN THE ABILITY TO GET DEALS LIKE HIS EMERGENCY POWERS, PRESERVING SOME OF THOSE POWERS IN PLACE WITHOUT HAVING TO DO THE EXECUTIVE ORDER EVERY 30 DAYS, SO THIS IS, I THINK, REALLY TESTING A LOT OF PEOPLE'S PATIENCE, BOTH SORT OF THE AVERAGE JOE, THE AVERAGE NEW JERSEYEN, AND ALSO THIS DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS, POWER PLAYERS WHO ARE REALLY JUST, I THINK, GETTING FATIGUED FROM THIS ALL.

>> BRENT, THE POLLS SUGGEST THAT MURPHY'S STILL SEEN -- THE JOB THAT HE'S DOING IS STILL SEEN AS PRETTY GOOD, FAVORABLE.

WHAT'S YOUR SENSE ON HOW THIS MASK THING MIGHT AFFECT HIM AS WE GO INTO THE SUMMER AND THEN INTO THE FALL?

>> I MEAN, JUST DOING VERY UNSCIENTIFIC POLLING AMONG PEOPLE I'VE SPOKEN TO, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO THINK, WE SHOULD STILL BE SAFE AND WE SHOULD STILL BE WEARING MASKS SO IT'S NOT OVERWHELMING THAT PEOPLE WANT TO SEE MASKS DROPPED.

THERE ARE STILL SOME PEOPLE SCARED OF THIS PANDEMIC.

HE HAS HINTED THAT THIS WILL CHANGE BY MEMORIAL DAY.

HE SAID THAT THE OTHER DAY.

HE KIND OF HINTED A LITTLE BIT.

SO, I DON'T SEE THIS LASTING VERY LONG, BUT IT'S THE OPTICS OF IT, WHICH I THINK SURPRISE THE GOVERNOR.

I MEAN, THE BASH LASH SURPRISED THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE OPTICS OF IT, KIND OF LIKE CHRISTIE ON THE BEACH, MEANING HE DIDN'T SHUT DOWN ALL THE BEACHES DURING 2017, BUT HE WAS SITTING ON ONE OF THE BEACHES THAT WAS CLOSED, AND IT'S THE OPTICS OF THIS.

WHEN YOU AND HAWAII ARE LIKE THE LAST TWO THAT HAVEN'T ANNOUNCED THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DROP THE MASK MANDATE, WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND AND PEOPLE ARE STILL SCARED, THE OPTICS OF IT STILL, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND HAWAII?

WHY HAVEN'T YOU FOLLOWED SUIT?

SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT WILL HURT HIS POLLING.

I STILL THINK HIS POLLING WILL BE OKAY IN A RE-ELECTION YEAR, BUT THE LONGER THIS LASTS, THE MORE LIKELY YOU'RE IN DANGER OF SEEING THAT DROP.

>> MICHAEL AARON, YOU'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE AIMING TO REPLACE MURPHY.

I GUESS JACK CITTARELI HAS TWO OPPONENTS.

IS THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY GOING TO TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THE CURENT OR PERHAPS FUTURE STATE OF THE GOP IN NEW JERSEY?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

JACK IS EXPECTED TO WIN THIS THING.

THE OTHER TWO ARE FAIRLY UNKNOWN AND THEY'RE RUNNING AGAINST HIM AND SINGH MADE ONE OF THE DEBATES SO THERE WILL BE A DEBATE.

IT'S ALL CIATTARELLI'S TO LOSE IN THIS PRIMARY.

I THINK WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT IS DONALD TRUMP AND WHERE THEY STAND ON HIM AND ON PANDEMIC MANAGEMENT AND HOW THEY THINK MURPHY HAS DONE IN THAT REALM.

BUT I THINK WE'RE ALL EXPECTING JACK CIATTARELLI TO WALK AWAY WITH THIS NOMINATION WITHOUT MUCH DIFFICULTY AND THEN IN THE FALL, I CAN SEE A PATHWAY WHEREBY CIATTARELLI COULD UPSET MURPHY.

THE ODDS IN MURPHY'S FAVOR ARE PROBABLY ABOUT 5 TO 1, BUT IN THE RECENT MONMOUTH POLL, ONLY 48% SAID THAT MURPHY DESERVES A SECOND TERM.

43% SAID HE DIDN'T.

THAT'S AN AVENUE FOR CIATTARELLI IF LESS THAN HALF THE PUBLIC THINKS THAT MURPHY DESERVES RE-ELECTION.

SO, WHILE CIATTARELLI, THE EXPECTED WINNER IN THE PRIMARY, WILL BE A HEAVY FAVORITE IN THE PRIMARY, HE'S GOING TO BE A LONG SHOT IN THE GENERAL.

>> LET ME GET YOUR QUICK TAKE, MICHAEL, ON THE -- ANOTHER MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY POLL.

THIS ONE ON THE FORMER GOVERNORS.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, 26% FAVORABLE, WHICH IS BETTER THAN IT WAS WHEN HE LEFT OFFICE, BUT 64% QUITE UNFAVORABLE.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN, AND WHAT IMPACT MIGHT SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAVE ON CHRIS CHRISTIE IF, SAY, HE DECIDED TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN IN 2024?

>> I DON'T THINK IT HAS MUCH IMPACT.

I THINK IT'S ALMOST STANDARD THAT A POLITICIAN IS OFTEN -- MAY NOT BE STANDARD, BUT IT HAPPENS OFTEN THAT A POLITICIAN POLLS LESS WELL IN HIS OWN STATE THAN ABROAD WHERE THEY DON'T KNOW HIM WELL.

CHRISTIE'S POLLING WAS SIGNIFICANTLY UP IN THE STRATOSPHERE AFTER HURRICANE SANDY.

THEN CAME BRIDGEGATE.

THEN CAME HIS CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT THAT TOOK HIM OUT OF STATE FOR TWO DAYS OUT OF THREE, AND THEN CAME THE FAMOUS BEACH SHOT THAT BRENT ALLUDED TO A FEW MOMENTS AGO WHEN CHRISTIE CLOSED THE STATE PARKS BUT OPENED THE ONE ON HIS OWN BACK DOOR.

THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO HAUNT CHRISTIE IN NEW JERSEY FOR A GOOD LONG TIME.

BUT I DON'T THINK THEY DISQUALIFY HIM TO RUN FOR THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION.

>> ALL RIGHT, BRENT, I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

THIS IS A STORY THAT IS STILL DEVELOPING.

AN INVESTIGATION COMMISSIONED BY THE CITY OF LYNDON REPORTEDLY FOUND THAT SENATOR NICK HAD ENGAGED IN SERIAL ABSENTEEISM AND PENSION PADDING.

IT MENTIONED THE NAME OF WAYNE BRYANT, A FORMER SENATOR WHO WAS GUILTY OF PENSION PADDING BUT HAVING A NO-SHOW JOB.

HOW SERIOUS IS THIS FOR THE CHAIR OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND THE GODFATHER OF LEGAL CANNABIS?

>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

HE'S BECOME A MUCH MORE HIGH-PROFILE LAWMAKER IN RECENT YEARS LARGELY BECAUSE OF MARIJUANA.

IT'S NOT GOOD.

YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT.

YOU KNOW, LAWMAKERS STILL HAVE THE -- YES.

LAWMAKERS STILL HAVE THE ABILITY, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT AS WELL KNOWN AS THE GOVERNOR OR U.S.

SENATORS, SO THEY CAN KIND OF FLY UNDER THE RADAR ON SOME OF THIS STUFF, BUT NEW JERSEY DOES HAVE A HISTORY OF CORRUPTION AND SEEING POLITICIANS LEAVE OFFICE BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE THAT, SO YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, THIS -- IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT.

>> YEAH.

NOT GOOD.

ALL RIGHT, THAT'S "ROUNDTABLE" FOR TODAY.

THANKS TO OUR PANEL, BRENT JOHNSON, DANIEL MUNOZ, MICHAEL AARON, AND TO OUR GUEST, TOM BRACKEN.

AND A SPECIAL BIRTHDAY SHOUTOUT THIS WEEK TO ELIJAH.

HE'S THE SON OF OUR DIRECTOR, ELVIN.

HE TURNS TEN THIS WEEK.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, LITTLE MAN.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL FOR MORE GREAT CONTENT INCLUDING "CHAT BOX" AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS WITH BRIANA VANNOZZI.

WE'RE OFF FOR THE HOLIDAY NEXT WEEK.

HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD ONE.

WE'RE BACK IN TWO WEEKS.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW HERE, I'M DAVID CRUZ.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RWJBARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

AND BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY "NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE," THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.