>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ" IS PROVIDED BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

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♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, THIS IS "CHAT BOX."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THE TEACHERS YOU HAVE HAD OVER THE YEARS.

WHEN YOU REMEMBER THOSE FACES, THINK ABOUT THE RACIAL AND GENDER MAKE-UP.

WE'LL TALK WITH ONE EDUCATOR WHO'S HOPING TO UPDATE THE FACE OF TEACHING.

THAT'S LATER IN THE SHOW.

BUT WE START TODAY WITH THE NEWS THAT HAS TRIGGERED OUR STATE'S GREAT MASK DEBATE.

>> ANYONE WHO IS FULLY VACCINATED CAN PARTICIPATE IN INDOOR AND OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES, LARGE OR SMALL, WITHOUT WEARING A MASK OR PHYSICAL DISTANCING.

IF YOU ARE FULLY VACCINATED, YOU CAN START DOING THE THINGS THAT YOU HAD STOPPED DOING BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> FOLLOWING THOSE CDC GUIDELINES, STATES LIKE NEW YORK AND CONNECTICUT HAVE LIFTED THEIR MASK MANDATES, BUT NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY IS A HOLDOUT, AND THAT HAS INTENSIFIED AN ALREADY LOUD DEBATE OVER MASKS AND FACE COVERINGS, TO REQUIRE OR NOT TO REQUIRE, AND WHY?

HERE TO HELP US FIND SOME CLARITY IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION AND FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE CDC, DR. RICH BESSER.

THANKS FOR SOMING ON WITH US.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE, DAVID.

>> MASK MANDATES LIFTED IN NEW YORK AND CONNECTICUT BASED ON THESE CDC RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT HERE IN JERSEY, THE GOVERNOR IS MAINTAINING AN INDOOR MASK MANDATE.

IS HE RIGHT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE CONCEPT OF RIGHT IS A CHALLENGING ONE.

THE CDC GUIDANCE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE FULLY VACCINATED, THAT MEANS AT LEAST TWO WEEKS AFTER YOUR FINAL DOSE OF VACCINE, ARE PROTECTED AND NO LONGER NEED TO WEAR MASKS, INDOORS OR OUTDOORS, IS REALLY FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE, AND THE INCREASING SCIENCE AND THE SCIENCE SHOWS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE FULLY VACCINATED, NOT JUST IN THE TRIALS BUT IN REAL LIFE, HAVE LEVELS OF PROTECTION ABOVE 90%, SOME 95%, WHICH IS AMAZING.

THAT'S SOME OF THE BEST VACCINES WE HAVE FOR ANY DISEASE.

THERE'S NOW ADEQUATE VACCINE FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO BE VACCINATED.

WE'RE SEEING CASES GOING DOWN IN EVERY STATE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND THERE'S INCREASING SCIENCE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED, FULLY VACCINATED, WILL NOT SPREAD THE VIRUS TO OTHER PEOPLE, EVEN IF THEY HAPPEN TO GET INFECTED.

SO, CDC'S CORRECT THERE IN TERMS OF THE SCIENCE, BUT IN TERMS OF THE LOCAL CONTEXT, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT CDC IS NOT REGULATORY ON THIS.

THEY PUT OUT RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE GOVERNOR HERE IN NEW JERSEY IS SAYING, WELL, LET'S LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR STATE.

RECENTLY, MICHIGAN WAS HIT REALLY HARD BUT AT THE SAME TIME MICHIGAN WAS BEING HIT HARD, NEW JERSEY HAD ONE OF THE HIGHEST RATES IN THE COUNTRY OF COVID INFECTION, HOSPITALIZATION, AND DEATH.

WE FINALLY TURNED THE CORNER ON THAT.

IN THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS, THE NUMBER OF DAILY CASES HAS PLUMMETED.

HOSPITALIZATIONS HAS FALLEN.

THERE'S STILL MORE THAN 20 PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING OF COVID EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND SO THE GOVERNOR'S LOOKING AT THAT AND SAYING, I WANT TO GO SLOW HERE.

I DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING TOO QUICKLY AND HAVE IT SLIP BACK, AND I WANT TO UNDERSTAND, WITH THIS NEW GUIDANCE, WHAT ARE BUSINESSES SUPPOSED TO DO?

YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO WALKS IN, ISN'T WEARING A MASK AND SAYS, HEY, CDC SAYS I DON'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK, HOW DOES THAT BUSINESS KNOW THE INDIVIDUAL IS TRULY VACCINATED?

SO, THERE ARE SOME THINGS HERE THAT I THINK THE STATE WANTS TO SEE BEFORE MAKING A CHANGE, AND THE CDC GUIDANCE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE FOLLOWED BY STATES, AND YOU'RE SEEING DIFFERENT APPROACHES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> TAKE WITH YOUR OWN LOCAL CONTEXT.

>> EXACTLY.

AND I WOULD EXPECT IF THE CONTINUED DOWNWARD TREND WE'VE SEEN IN NEW JERSEY, NEW JERSEY WOULD MAKE A CHANGE.

I'M ON THE GOVERNOR'S RESTART AND RECOVERY COMMISSION, AND I'M ALSO ON THE REGIONAL COMMISSION REPRESENTING OUR STATE, AND ACROSS THE SEVEN STATES IN THE REGION, THERE ARE DIFFERENT APPROACHES THAT ARE BEING TAKEN TO SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS, AND WE'RE LEARNING FROM EACH OTHER, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER STATES AS THEY MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS MASK CHANGE, AND I EXPECT THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THINGS GO WELL, NEW JERSEY WOULD MOVE TOWARDS A CHANGE IN THE FUTURE AS WELL.

>> IT'S NOT ALWAYS CLEAR TO US IN THE PRESS WHAT METRICS THIS GOVERNOR'S LOOKING AT WHEN HE MAKES DECISIONS.

WHAT METRICS DO YOU ASSUME THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT, AND/OR SHOULD BE LOOKING AT?

>> YEAH, WELL, THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME CLEAR METRICS THAT THE GOVERNOR AND THE COMMISSIONER DO LOOK AT.

THEY LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF DAILY CASES.

THEY LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE SOMEONE WHO'S INFECTED WITH COVID INFECTS.

THAT'S SOMETHING CALLED THE R NAUGHT.

BUT IF SOMEONE WHO HAS COVID INFECTS MORE THAN ONE PERSON, WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR OWN INFECTION, THEN THE NUMBER OF CASES ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RISE.

BUT IF THEY, ON AVERAGE, INFECT LESS THAN ONE PERSON, THE PANDEMIC IS GOING TO GO AWAY AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO DECLINE.

SO THEY LOOK AT THAT CLOSELY.

AND RIGHT NOW, EACH PERSON IN NEW JERSEY WHO GETS INFECTED WITH COVID, ON AVERAGE, INFECTS LESS THAN ONE HALF OF A PERSON, SO THAT MEANS HALF THE -- ON AVERAGE, HALF THE PEOPLE DON'T INFECT ANYBODY, AND THE OTHERS INFECT ONE OTHER PERSON SO THAT'S GOOD.

THEY LOOK AT THAT.

THEY LOOK AT HOSPITAL OCCUPANCY, BECAUSE ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES WITH COVID LAST SPRING, WE SAW, WAS THAT OUR HOSPITALS WERE REALLY STRESSED.

OUR ICUs WERE FULL.

WE WERE RUNNING SHORT ON VENTILATORS.

THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE AGAIN SO LOOKING AT HOSPITAL OCCUPANCY, LOOKING AT THE DAILY NUMBER OF DEATHS, AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, FOR PROTECTION, LOOKING AT VACCINE UPTAKE, AND IN NEW JERSEY, IT'S GOING REALLY, REALLY WELL.

WE ARE ONE OF THE TOP PERFORMING STATES WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINATION.

SO, LOOKING TO SEE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED AND THEN THE AREA WHERE THE STATE IS TRYING TO DO MORE AND MORE AND IT'S SO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT IS THE AREA OF VACCINE EQUITY.

AND MAKING SURE THAT EVERY GROUP WITHIN THE STATE IS SEEING THE SAME HIGH LEVELS OF VACCINATION.

RIGHT NOW, BLACK RESIDENTS, LATINO RESIDENTS HAVE LOWER RATES OF COVERAGE, AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF EFFORT TO GET VACCINES INTO COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE GOING DOOR TO DOOR TO HELP ANSWER PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS, VACCINE CLINICS THAT ARE BEING SET UP IN CHURCHES AND COMMUNITY CENTERS, MOBILE VACCINE CLINICS.

THESE ARE THINGS -- THE EASIER YOU CAN MAKE IT FOR PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED, THE MORE PEOPLE WILL ROLL UP THEIR SLEEVES AND TAKE THE SHOT.

>> ONE THING WE'RE NOT REALLY HEARING A LOT ABOUT IS FOLKS IN THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY WHO ARE DIRECTLY DEALING WITH PATIENTS UP TO 60% OF THEM NOT CHOOSING TO BE VACCINATED.

IS THAT NOT A CAUSE FOR CONCERN?

>> IT'S A CAUSE FOR REAL CONCERN.

YOU KNOW, IN PARTICULAR, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES, NURSING HOMES AND SUCH, THERE ARE A LOT OF WORKERS WHO ARE SAYING, I DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED.

AND WE NEED TO DIVE INTO THAT.

I THINK ANYONE WHO'S GOT QUESTIONS DESERVES TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.

WE HAVE TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND MORE DEEPLY WHY SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT LOOKING TO GET VACCINATED RIGHT NOW, WHAT THEIR FEARS ARE.

THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE VACCINES WE HAVE FOR ANY INFECTIOUS DISEASE, AND NOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN TO -- IN MORE THAN 100 MILLION ARMS, WE SEE HOW INCREDIBLY SAFE THEY ARE.

AND SO, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND AND HELP PEOPLE DEAL WITH THEIR CONCERNS, I'M HOPING WE'LL SEE AN INCREASED UPTAKE.

>> YOU HAD THE PLEASURE OF LEADING THE AGENCY DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BUT THE CDC HAS HAD A ROUGH NUMBER OF YEARS RECENTLY.

HOW DAMAGED DO YOU THINK IS THE AGENCY'S CREDIBILITY RIGHT NOW?

AND WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET IT BACK TO, SAY, PRE-2016 LEVELS?

>> WELL, IT'S DEFINITELY TAKEN A HIT.

AND YOU KNOW, I THINK DR. WALENSKY, WHO'S THE -- ROCHELLE WALENSKY, WHO'S THE CURRENT CDC DIRECTOR, HAS A LOT OF WORK AHEAD OF HER.

I THINK SHE'S THE RIGHT PERSON FOR THE JOB.

YOU KNOW, IT'S -- ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES DURING THE LAST ADMINISTRATION WAS THAT WE WERE NOT ABLE TO HEAR FROM CDC.

THEY REALLY WEREN'T ABLE TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC, ANSWER PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS, EXPLAIN WHY DECISIONS WERE BEING MADE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN DR. WALENSKY LAST WEEK ROLLED OUT THE NEW GUIDANCE AROUND MASKS, SHE PRESENTED THE DATA THAT LED TO THE DECISION.

I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T SEE THE CHANGE COMING, THAT IT CAME VERY SUDDENLY, BUT WE GOT TO SEE THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE DECISION, THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE DECLINING CASE LOAD, THE COVERAGE VALUE OF THE VACCINE, THE LACK OF TRANSMISSIBLE FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE INFECTED, SO YOU COULD SEE THE THINKING, AND WHEN YOU SHARE THAT THOUGHT PROCESS, WHEN THERE ARE CHANGES, THAT HELPS INSPIRE TRUST, AND SO I HOPE THAT OVER TIME, PEOPLE GIVE THE CDC A CHANCE AND THAT THAT TRUST IS RESTORED.

>> ALL RIGHT, RICH BESSER, CEO OF THE ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION AND FORMER ACTING HEAD OF THE CDC, THANKS AGAIN FOR COMING ON WITH US.

GOOD TO MEET YOU.

>> THANK YOU, DAVID.

IT'S MY PLEASURE.

>> TIT CAN SOMETIMES FEEL LIKE FACTS ARE JUST FUEL FOR THE FIRE IN OUR PUBLIC DEBATE.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS PART OF THE LOYAL OPPOSITION IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY.

HE IS, FOR NOW, THE ASSEMBLY REPUBLICAN LEADER.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, JOHN.

ASSEMBLYMAN, HELLO.

THE CDC SAYS TAKE THE MASKS OFF IF YOU'VE BEEN VACCINATED, EVEN INDOORS, BUT GOVERNOR MURPHY SAYS, NOT SO FAST, AND YOU'RE LIKE, WHAT'S TAKING YOU SO LONG, RIGHT?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S CREATED CONFUSION AND WHAT YOU DON'T WANT IN GOVERNMENT AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEND A MESSAGE TO THE PUBLIC THAT GOVERNMENT IS CONFUSED, ESPECIALLY ON A SERIOUS ISSUE SUCH AS THIS.

SO I THINK MURPHY'S MAKING A MISTAKE BY NOT ADOPTING THE CDC RECOMMENDATIONS BECAUSE IF HE ADOPTS THE CDC RECOMMENDATIONS, THE PUBLIC WILL FEEL AS IF HE'S FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE.

HE FEELS AS IF HE'S AHEAD OF THE EXPERTS IN WASHINGTON.

I DON'T GET THAT, AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE DON'T GET THAT.

>> WHAT'S THE GOVERNOR'S RATIONALE, DO YOU THINK?

WHY IS HE DOING THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK HE THINKS -- AND LOOK, I LIKE GOVERNOR MURPHY, I JUST DISAGREE WITH HIM.

I THINK HE BELIEVES THAT NEW JERSEY HAD THE EPIDEMIC AND THAT WE WERE THE STATE THAT HAD MOST OF THE DEATHS.

WE WERE A -- WE WERE IN CRITICAL CONDITION AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO TAKE A STEP FORWARD.

BUT IF I'M TOLD BY THE EXPERTS IN THE COUNTRY, PROBABLY THE SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED CAN GO WITHOUT A MASK INTO A STORE OR INTO A RESTAURANT, I'M GOING WITH THEM.

ALL DUE RESPECT, I'M NOT GOING WITH THE POLITICIAN.

I'M GOING WITH THE SCIENTIST.

>> SOME OF YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE CALLING HIM EMPEROR MURPHY.

IS THAT FAIR?

>> I DON'T CALL NAMES.

YOU KNOW I CRITICIZED TRUMP WITHOUT CALLING NAMES.

LOOK, PHIL MURPHY, I BELIEVE, BELIEVES IN WHAT HE'S SAYING.

THE FACT THAT I DISAGREE WITH HIM, I DON'T NEED TO CALL HIM NAMES.

I'LL LET THE PUBLIC DETERMINE WHO IS RIGHT.

IS THE REPUBLICAN LEADER AND THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS RIGHT?

IS PHIL MURPHY RIGHT?

THEY'LL MAKE THAT DECISION IN NOVEMBER.

>> THE GOVERNOR SAYS, AND YOU HEARD RICH BESSER THERE ALSO SAY, THAT THE GOVERNOR IS HELPING BUSINESS BY NOT FORCING THEM TO HAVE TO CONFIRM WHO GOT A SHOT OR WHO DIDN'T GET A SHOT IN ORDER TO COME INTO THEIR RESTAURANT.

I MEAN, THAT'S FAIR, NO?

>> NO, I AGREE -- I AGREE WITH THAT.

I DON'T THINK RESTAURANTS NEED TO DECIDE WHO'S ALLOWED TO SIT AT A TABLE OR AT A BAR.

BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT ONCE THE CDC RECOMMENDS -- NOW, REMEMBER, THIS IS THE HEARER, THE CITIZEN WHO HEARS THE CDC SAYING THAT IT'S OKAY IF YOU'RE VACCINATED TO GO INSIDE, THEN IT SEEMS TO ME THEY'RE GOING TO BE CONFUSED.

THE GOVERNOR SAID HE'D FOLLOW THE SCIENCE.

THERE'S THE SCIENCE.

LET'S FOLLOW IT.

>> SO, THERE WAS A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE ENDED THE GOVERNOR'S PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

EVIDENTLY NOW IT'S NOT GOING TO SEE A VOTE.

THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ANNOUNCED THAT HE'S PULLING THAT BILL.

YOU'RE IN THE ASSEMBLY.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT?

>> WELL, I'M SHOCKED.

FOR THE LAST YEAR, THE LEGISLATURE HAS HAD NO HEARINGS, HAS NOT ALLOWED PUBLIC DEBATE BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE.

THE GOVERNOR HASN'T HELD ANY HEARINGS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLOSING OR OPENING SCHOOLS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLOSING OR OPENING BUSINESSES AND NO PUBLIC DEBATE?

SO THE BILL WAS NOT TO END THE STATE OF EMERGENCY.

IT WAS TO END PART OF THE STATE OF EMERGENCY AND ALLOW WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S DONE OVER THE LAST YEAR TO CONTINUE WITHOUT HEARINGS.

THE THING THAT I OBJECT TO IS THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC INPUT.

EXPERTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE.

YOU TELL ME, DAVE CRUZ, AS A MEMBER OF THE MEDIA, HOW -- WE HAD DEBATES OVER THE STATE BIRD, OVER STATE DIRT.

WE HAVE NO HEARINGS OVER WHETHER OR NOT YOU OPEN OR CLOSE SCHOOLS?

HOW DO WE ALLOW THAT?

>> SO, I MEAN, IT'S A GOOD POINT, AND ONE OF THE THINGS, I MEAN, YOU TALK ABOUT HAVING PUBLIC HEARINGS, BUT YOU GUYS HAD HEARINGS AND ALL YOU REALLY KIND OF DID WAS PACK IT WITH CRITICS OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

IS THAT NOT FAIR?

>> IT'S NOT FAIR, BECAUSE AT LEAST WE HAD A HEARING.

WE ALLOWED PEOPLE TO SPEAK.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, HOW CAN YOU MAKE DECISIONS IN A DEMOCRACY AND NOT GIVE TEACHERS, DOCTORS, STUDENTS, PARENTS THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD?

ONCE AGAIN, YOU'VE SEEN RIDICULOUS HEARINGS IN TRENTON THAT WERE NOT IMPORTANT.

THIS AFFECTS EVERYBODY.

ALL I'M SAYING IS TWO THINGS.

FOLLOW THE SCIENCE.

AND LET THE PUBLIC SPEAK.

HAVE TRANSPARENCY.

AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT EVERY DECISION THAT THE GOVERNOR'S MADE IS WRONG.

I'M JUST SAYING IT'S BEEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, AND THAT'S SIMPLY NOT RIGHT.

>> YOU USED THE TERM, TRANSPARENCY.

A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE HAD OPEN REQUESTS DELAYED BY THE ADMINISTRATION.

THEY SAY IT'S DUE TO THE COVID PANDEMIC.

ARE THEY TRYING TO HIDE SOMETHING?

>> WELL, I THINK THEY DON'T HAVE REALLY ANY REAL BASIS FOR SOME OF THESE DECISIONS.

IN TERMS OF HIDING IT, I'M NOT SURE THEY KNOW WHY THEY'VE MADE THESE DECISIONS.

ONCE AGAIN, I THINK IT'S A SERIOUS, SERIOUS PANDEMIC.

I THINK WE'VE LOST A LOT OF NEW JERSEYANS.

IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T HEAR WHAT AND HOW THE GOVERNOR MAKES DECISIONS.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO, WOULD YOU JOIN THE STATE'S PRESS CORPS IN CALLING FOR ENDING THE PANDEMIC-RELATED DELAYS TO OPEN REQUESTS?

>> 100%.

AND I'M HAPPY TO BRING MY PRESS BADGE AND COME DOWN WITH YOU.

>> AND WHILE WE'RE AT IT, MAKING THE LEGISLATURE SUBJECT TO OPEN RULES ALSO.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT ALSO.

>> ALL RIGHT, WOULD IT SURPRISE YOU TO KNOW -- >> EVERYTHING SHOULD BE MORE OPEN AND MORE TRANSPARENT.

I'M HAPPY TO GIVE YOU MY CELL PHONE ANY TIME.

>> WOULD YOU BE SURPRISED IF YOU LEARNED THAT 40% OF REPUBLICANS IN THE POLL SAY THEY WON'T GET VACCINATED?

WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU?

>> I DON'T LIKE THAT.

I RESPECT THEIR OPINION.

I THINK THEY'RE WRONG.

IN MY JUDGMENT, I'M GOING TO LISTEN TO DOCTORS.

I'M NOT -- I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE ON THE RADIO.

I'M GOING TO LISTEN TO PHYSICIANS WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED, PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN VACCINES OVER THE YEARS, PEOPLE WHO STUDIED VACCINES.

THAT'S WHO I LISTEN TO.

OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO LISTEN TO, LET'S SAY, POLITICIANS OR VOICES ON THE RADIO, THAT'S NOT ME.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO SIGN UP FOR A CHANCE TO WIN DINNER WITH THE MURPHYS?

>> WELL, FIRST, LET ME TELL YOU, I ALREADY HAD MY VACCINE, SO I PROBABLY CAN'T WIN IT.

AND HE WAS AT MY HOUSE THE OTHER DAY WHEN WE HAD A BUNCH OF COMEDIANS, SO I'VE ACTUALLY HAD A COUPLE DRINKS WITH HIM, SO I'M GOING TO LET SOMEBODY ELSE HAVE THE GLORY OF BEING WITH THE GOVERNOR AND TAMMY.

>> ALL RIGHT, ASSEMBLY REPUBLICAN LEADER JOHN BRAMNICK, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, DAVE.

APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.

>> I ASKED AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW FOR YOU TO PICTURE THE TEACHERS THAT YOU HAVE HAD IN YOUR LIFE.

FOR ME, MS. BRILL, ALL WHITE, ALL FEMALE.

I HAD TWO BLACK TEACHERS IN GRADE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL AND ONLY ONE WAS MALE.

ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF TEACHERS TODAY, GRAMMAR SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL, ARE FEMALE AND SLIGHTLY MORE THAN THAT, CLOSE TO 80%, ARE WHITE.

A THIRD GRADE MATH TEACHER AND SCIENCE TEACHER AT MT.

VERNON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND AUTHOR OF THE OP-ED, WHY WE NEED MORE BLACK MEN IN THE CLASSROOM.

GOOD TO MEET YOU, MAN.

>> HEY, DAVID.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO, YOUR OP-ED MADE ME THINK.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN REALLY REMEMBER SEEING A BLACK MAN IN FRONT OF A CLASSROOM, CERTAINLY NOT A YOUNG BLACK MAN WHILE I WAS IN SCHOOL.

WAS THAT YOUR EXPERIENCE ALSO?

>> YES, THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE, AND IT'S SAD TO SAY THAT IS STILL THE REALITY.

YOU KNOW, NATIONWIDE, ABOUT 2% OF THE TEACHING CORE ARE BLACK MEN, AND OVERALL, ONLY 8% OF TEACHERS NATIONWIDE ARE BLACK PEOPLE IN GENERAL.

IN NEW JERSEY, ABOUT 6.6% OF TEACHERS ARE BLACK TEACHERS.

SO, MY EXPERIENCE IS ONE WHERE I DIDN'T HAVE MUCH BLACK MALE TEACHERS.

I DEFINITELY DIDN'T HAVE BLACK TEACHERS IN ELA, MATH, SOCIAL STUDIES, SCIENCE.

MOST OF MY BLACK TEACHERS THAT I HAVE HAD WERE ART OR GYM TEACHERS.

SO, THAT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE, AND SADLY, THAT IS STILL THE EXPERIENCE OF MOST OF THE STUDENTS HERE IN NEW JERSEY AND THROUGHOUT THE NATION.

>> SO, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT AFFECTED YOU?

WHAT DID YOU MISS?

>> I MISSED SEEING A ROLE MODEL IN THE CLASSROOM.

I MISSED SEEING SOMEONE WHO CAN REACH ME, UNDERSTAND ME, TEACH ME MORE THAN JUST THE SUBJECT MATTER, TEACH ME ABOUT LIFE, YOU KNOW?

UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT WE SEE IS A LOT OF TIMES, MANY TEACHERS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO REACH, DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXTEND THEMSELVES TO BLACK BOYS, AND THIS IS AFFECTING THE TEACHING PROFESSION.

SO, I WISH THAT I HAD MORE BLACK TEACHERS THAT WOULD EDUCATE ME, THAT WOULD BASICALLY RAISE ME, AND THAT WOULD BE A ROLE MODEL IN MY CLASSROOM AND IN MY COMMUNITY.

SO IF I HAD THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE MADE ME MORE OF A GOOD TEACHER.

I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE INSPIRED ME.

I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE MADE ME WANT TO DO MORE WITHIN THE CLASSROOM ONCE I HAD SAW THAT BLACK MALE IN THE CLASSROOM THAT WOULD BE MY ROLE MODEL AND CAN TEACH ME A LOT ABOUT LIFE.

>> TEACHERS HOLD SUCH POWER, ESPECIALLY WITH YOUNGER STUDENTS.

WHY AREN'T MORE YOUNG BLACK MEN CHOOSING TO GO INTO THE CLASSROOM STILL?

>> THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION, AND A LOT OF TIMES WE HAVE TO POINT BACK TO HISTORY.

YOU KNOW, AFTER THE BOARD OF EDUCATION -- BROWN VS. BOARD OF EDUCATION DECISION, YOU KNOW, WE SAW THE TEACHING CORE OF BLACK TEACHERS BASICALLY DIMINISH, BASICALLY WENT DOWN.

BASICALLY DISSIPATE.

SO, HISTORY HAS TAUGHT US THAT TEACHERS WHO ARE BLACK BASICALLY START LEAVING THE PROFESSION AFTER THAT DECISION.

AND THAT REALLY HURTS OUR PROFESSION TO THIS DAY.

OVERALL, YOU SEE BLACK MEN IN THIS COUNTRY, WE'RE MARGINALIZED, NOT TREATED EQUAL, NOT TREATED FAIRLY, AND THIS HAPPENS AS WELL WHEN IT COMES TO HIRING BLACK MEN TO BE IN THE CLASSROOM.

NOW WHEN I SAID EARLIER 2% OF OUR NATION'S TEACHERS ARE BLACK MEN, MOST OF THOSE 2% ARE IN URBAN AREAS.

WE ARE CONCENTRATED IN URBAN AREAS.

WE ARE THERE.

WE ARE NOT HIRED IN OTHER AREAS.

WE'RE NOT HIRED IN SUBURBAN DISTRICTS AS MUCH.

SO, HISTORY HAS PLAYED A PART IN THIS.

AND ALSO, WE STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH A LOT OF ISSUES SURROUNDING HOW THIS COUNTRY VIEWS BLACK MEN AS A WHOLE.

>> SO, YOU HAD A PRETTY COOL EVENT AT SCHOOL CALLED MEN IN SUITS, PRE-PANDEMIC, OF COURSE.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

I HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

>> SO WHAT I DID WAS I INVITED MEN FROM THE COMMUNITY TO WELCOME STUDENTS BACK INTO THE SCHOOL BECAUSE BE I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE ABOUT BLACK MEN NOT BEING IN THE CLASSROOM FOR A LONG TIME NOW, SO INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING ABOUT IT, I DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

AND THE THING THAT I COULD DO ABOUT IT ON MY LEVEL, I DECIDED TO INVITE MEN FROM THE COMMUNITY, THOSE MEN THAT YOU SEE THERE ARE FROM SOLID ROCK BAPTIST CHURCH IN IRVINGTON AND WE DO A MEN IN SUITS EVENT.

THE LAST ONE WAS 2019.

AND WE WELCOME ALL STUDENTS BACK TO SCHOOL AND TELL THEM WE NEED THEM, WE WANT THEM, AND THEIR EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT, NOT JUST TO THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES BUT TO THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

>> I LOVE THOSE PHOTOS.

WHAT HAS THE SCHOOL YEAR BEEN LIKE FOR YOU?

YOUR DISTRICT HAS A HYBRID MODEL.

YOU GOT ABOUT FOUR WEEKS LEFT, RIGHT?

HOW HAS IT AFFECTED YOUR ABILITY TO PUT SOME KNOWLEDGE INTO THE HEADS OF THOSE THIRD GRADERS?

>> YOU KNOW, THE THIRD GRADERS, I WOULD SAY, ARE A RESILIENT GROUP.

THEY HAVE GIVEN ME KNOWLEDGE IN TERMS OF HOW TO DEAL WITH THE TECHNOLOGY.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO APPLAUD ALL THE TEACHERS AT MT.

VERNON AVENUE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND ALL THE TEACHERS IN IRVINGTON BECAUSE WE WENT ONLINE AND TO ME, WE DID IT SEAMLESSLY BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR STUDENTS.

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS REAL QUICK.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT LEARNING LOSS, RIGHT?

WHAT HAVE YOUR KIDS LOST AND WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO COMPENSATE FOR IT?

HOW DO WE GET THAT BACK?

IS IT SUMMER SCHOOL?

HOW DOES IT WORK?

>> YEAH, SUMMER SCHOOL IS NEEDED BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE NEED TO GET BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM SAFELY.

YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE THING THAT WILL HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF THESE THINGS.

TECHNOLOGY IS GREAT.

TECHNOLOGY, WE CAN USE, BUT TECHNOLOGY, YOU LOSE A LOT WITH TECHNOLOGY WHEN YOU HAVE TO SPEAK TO A CHILD INTO A SCREEN.

WHEN YOU HAVE TO TRY TO EDUCATE A CHILD IN A SCREEN.

THAT IS A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS TO DO, SO WHEN THE NUMBERS GO DOWN, AND WE GO BACK TO SCHOOL, AND WE ARE BACK TO A FIVE DAYS A WEEK, I THINK THAT WILL HELP THE SITUATION WHERE US, AS THE GREAT TEACHERS THAT WE ARE, WILL TRY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO BUILD THEM BACK UP.

>> ALL RIGHT, I HOPE YOUR CLASS FINISHES REALLY STRONG THIS SCHOOL YEAR.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THAT IS "CHAT BOX" FOR TODAY.

OUR THANKS TO RICH BESSER AND JOHN BRAMNICK AS WELL.

A PROGRAMMING NOTE.

WE'RE OFF NEXT WEEK FOR MEMORIAL DAY.

THE WEEK AFTER, WE'LL HAVE A JOINT APPEARANCE BY THE DEMOCRATS FACING OFF IN THE SENATE PRIMARY IN DISTRICT 37, VALERIE HUTTAL AND GORDON JOHNSON.

THAT IS A HOT RACE.

IT'S NOT A DEBATE.

IT'S NO RULES, JUST TWO CANDIDATES TALKING OUT THE ISSUES.

SHOULD BE GOOD.

I HOPE YOU CAN JOIN US.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET MORE "CHAT BOX" PLUS OTHER GREAT CONTENT LIKE "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE," NJ BUSINESS BEAT, AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS WITH BRIANA VANNOZZI.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR ALL THE CREW OVER HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

SEE YOU IN A COUPLE WEEKS.

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