>> Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

In this episode, I'm joined by Emmanuel Acho, a former NFL player and bestselling author known for his impactful conversations on difficult topics.

We explore overcoming the fear of failure, handling criticism, and setting goals.

Emmanuel shares his experiences and insights on pushing beyond your greatest potential and living without limits.

This inspiring episode will motivate you to embrace challenges and become your best self.

I'm so glad you're here today.

Now let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪♪ ♪♪ For someone who has a gap in their imagination.

They see a future that they want to create.

They see an idea, a vision, a goal, whatever you want to call it.

But they don't know how to become the Velcro and bridge it to get to the other side.

What has been your thoughts or your philosophy and your advice on how to accomplish, set, and achieve goals?

>> Man.

I love that question.

Um, I love -- I love that question.

Dude, I don't believe in goals.

>> Okay.

>> I no longer believe in goals.

Crazy.

Because I know we're told for so long, "Set a goal.

Write it down, live by it."

True story, y'all.

Maybe one of the most depressing moments of my life.

After my junior year playing football at the University of Texas -- Texas, a top-flight college football program at the time.

I submitted my name to go to the NFL draft, I wanted to go professionally after three years, but I got back from the NFL a report, "Emmanuel, you will not be drafted in rounds one through three.

You will be drafted in rounds four through seven."

There are seven total rounds in the NFL draft for those watching and eventually listening.

"I'm not going in the fourth to seventh round.

I'll come back for my senior year."

>> This is junior year.

>> Junior year.

So what I said was this.

I took that sheet of paper that said, "Emmanuel, you won't be drafted in rounds one through three."

And I highlighted that line, "You won't be drafted in rounds one through three."

And I hung it above my bed, and I put one of those little sticks through the wall and the paper in my bed.

I looked at it every morning I woke up and every night before I went to sleep.

You know what they say about goals.

Look at them.

Commit them to memory.

Well, while at the NFL combine, I'm running my 40 at the conclusion of my senior year.

The NFL combine, again, for those watching, listening, it is the ultimate job interview if you want to go to the NFL.

I'm running a 40-yard dash, which will dictate essentially where I will be drafted.

>> What round you're in, yeah.

>> As I'm running, I'm running, I hear this boom, boom, boom, boom.

I thought my heels were clicking.

They weren't.

My quad was tearing off the bone.

>> Ugh.

>> I clutch at my quad.

I fall to the ground in sheer agony.

>> During the 40?

>> During the 40.

>> When every scout and coach is watching.

>> Everyone watching.

NFL TV is filming.

It's on ESPN.

>> Phones blowing up with texts.

"Are you okay?"

X, Y and Z.

It's terrible.

I clutched to the ground.

I'll save you all the rest of that, details of that story.

I ended up getting drafted in the sixth round.

I learned a valuable lesson that day.

Stop setting goals.

Here's why.

At best if you set a goal, you will achieve it.

But what if you could have achieved more?

At worst, if you set a goal and you don't achieve it, you ruin your self-esteem and your self-efficacy.

My self-esteem and my self-efficacy or your self-worth, how you look at yourself, were ruined that day, were undermined that day.

So instead of setting goals now, Lewis, I have an objective with no limitations.

Small difference.

But that small difference will make a huge impact on your life.

A goal, by definition, is an end towards which energy is aimed.

An objective is simply directing energy towards something.

So why, if I'm gonna have a goal, would I focus on the end when I'm at the beginning?

Instead, I direct all of my energy towards something.

I start my book "Illogical," which you and I are gonna get into -- "Imagine a life without failure."

Why?

Because when you don't set a goal, you can't fail.

>> Right.

>> And so many of us combat failure in our life.

So many of us are trying to figure out how can I become the best version of myself, but we can't become the best version of ourself because we're still mourning our former self.

We're still mourning our failures from our past.

We're still mourning our defeats from our past.

We're still mourning our scars from our yesteryears.

I'm done mourning my scars.

Now it's all about having an objective with no limitations.

Similar to that quote.

"If you shoot for the moon, even if you miss, you land amongst the stars."

>> Uh-huh.

So, as opposed to creating a goal then, what do you -- what are you creating?

Are you not creating something?

You're creating an objective?

>> Correct.

I'm creating an objective.

>> So what would it look like?

>> Beautiful.

People would always ask me when I got into TV, "Hey, Emmanuel, you want to be like Michael Strahan, right?"

For those that aren't familiar, Michael Strahan, host, "Good Morning America," co-host, NFL Hall of Famer.

He's that guy.

I said, "No, I don't want to be like Michael Strahan."

Because if I say I want to be like Michael Strahan, I might just be like Michael Strahan.

And while that's great for Michael Strahan, he's already taken.

So why would I want to be like this man who's already taken?

As great and as great and as great as he is, Michael Strahan is already taken.

I got to be Emmanuel Acho.

So when people ask me, "What do you want to be?"

I just say, "I want to be -- I want to be considered one of the most creative people the industry has ever seen."

My objective is subjective.

My objective is subject to people's opinion.

>> It's like art.

>> Bingo.

It's exactly like art, bro.

And speaking of art... >> Yeah.

>> Lil Wayne, one of my favorite verses, he says, "When you mention Pac, Biggie and Jay-Z, just remember -- just remember Weezy, Baby."

Or "When you mention Pac, Biggie and Jay-Z, make sure you mention Weezy, Baby," essentially saying when you mention the greats of all time, just make sure you mention me, too.

You're not saying, "I want to be the greatest," you know what I'm saying?

He didn't say the best rapper alive, all that.

But his objective was subjective.

"When you mention Tupac, when you mention Biggie, when you mention Jay-Z, just make sure you mention me, too."

And where I am now at with my desires in life, I don't have goals anymore, bro, because if you have a goal, you can fail and I'm done failing.

While people say, "Yo, Acho, that's crazy," remember, our greatest accomplishments in life are typically crazy.

>> They're not rational.

>> They're completely irrational.

They're completely irrational.

And a quote that I'm hung up on now, I'm hung up on it, Will Smith said in his latest book -- He said, "Remember, when somebody gives you their advice, it's just that.

It's their advice based on their limited life experiences.

You and now are a unique combination of which has never occurred before by which you are the best metric of success."

You and now -- unique combination, never occurred before.

You're the best metric of success.

So me and this present moment in this conversation with you, it's never occurred before.

So how this conversation is going to go is dependent upon you, dependent upon me, me and writing a book -- this new book.

It's never occurred before, so why would I be limited by someone else's standards?

It's kind of like what you and I discussed off camera.

We can bring it on camera.

I know you wouldn't mind.

Don't let insignificant people have such significance over your life.

And that's often what we do, bro.

>> Why do you think so many people focus on the significance of other people's thoughts and opinions?

>> Because we all want to be liked, man, and -- and -- and... >> How have you learned to let go of that feeling of being liked or loved or thought in a positive light when people say things that you don't like?

>> Well, my favorite quote maybe for the last decade.

Top three favorite quotes because I'm a huge quote guy.

One of my favorite quotes.

"And those who were dancing were thought to be crazy by those who didn't hear the music."

Imagine -- And we've all been in this situation before.

Imagine walking on the beach, biking through the city and you see somebody just dancing.

You'd be like, "Yo, what the heck are they do--?"

>> "This is crazy."

>> Exactly.

But maybe they're not crazy.

Maybe they just had headphones in and you couldn't see.

Those who were dancing were thought to be crazy by those who didn't hear the music.

What I've realized there's come a point in my time, in my life where I'm dancing and people think I'm crazy.

They just don't hear the music yet.

You're dancing.

You're 1,200 episodes in now.

People think you're crazy.

They just didn't hear the music yet.

So many people watching this are dancing and people think they're crazy.

No, the people that think they're crazy just haven't heard the music yet.

So we have to understand we're not crazy.

They just haven't heard the music.

And that is what keeps me going.

Realizing, "Yo, I'm not crazy.

I'm on my path to greatness.

And eventually they will catch up."

>> So when you see someone saying something negative for whatever reason or anything, how do you handle it internally?

And then how do you handle it externally?

Do you reply to certain things?

If someone's saying something, maybe it's true or it's inaccurate, do you take the energy to defend yourself or respond?

Or do you just say, "You know what?

Okay, this is their opinion.

I'm gonna focus on my vision"?

>> It's really good.

Sometimes I do fall into that cesspool, if you will, of social media.

It's the worst.

>> It's tough, man.

>> At times it can be the worst.

Social media does great things.

It clearly has for you, clearly has for me.

But it can be the worst.

Um, I think about this.

In the jungle, not all animals want to be petted, some just want to roar.

>> That's true.

>> And Twitter is the jungle.

Social media is the jungle.

In the jungle, not all animals want to be pet, man, some just want to roar.

And you have to understand when you log on social media and when you are in those spaces, some people just want to roar.

And then I also remember, and this is from a movie, another quote.

Um, a person is smart, but people are dumb, angry animals.

Individually, collectively, you and I are smart.

But when you get amongst the crowd, then all of a sudden you have that, um, you have that crowd chaos, if you will.

And I said this because I've been thinking so much recently that cowards turn courageous when they can remain anonymous.

Cowards turn courageous when they can remain anonymous.

>> Oh, wow.

>> And so often on social media and in life, people can remain anonymous.

In group settings at stadiums, people can remain anonymous, >> "Say it to my face.

Come -- Come say this to my face and let's have a conversation.

We don't need a fight.

We can talk."

>> Bro, I reached out to somebody the other day because he reached out to me and he was like -- He didn't reach out to me.

He tweeted at me, "This is a clown take and not surprising considering the source."

Like, you got a million followers on social media.

We used to work at the same company.

You can get my number.

I called him up.

"Oh, man, my bad.

I regretted it as soon as I said it.

Man, I shouldn't have said it.

It's on me."

And I'm like, "Do we got issues?

Just let me know."

But I think people get in the midst of that mob mentality and it's sheer chaos.

So I will say to your point, it's been hard, as you know, like, that journey up the mountaintop... Um, and I'm just -- I'm still trying the journey, but it can be depressing.

>> How do you manage it emotionally and manage your emotions when you see something that maybe is seeming unfair or just mean?

>> Man.

>> And maybe you're not doing it the best way yet, but you're on the journey.

>> Um, sometimes you just got to step away.

>> Yeah.

Don't respond.

>> Don't respond and honestly log off.

I think we have such a mental-health crisis right now in society, in large part because of social media.

We are seeing things we were never meant to see.

We're hearing things we were never meant to hear, and we're reading things we were never meant to read.

>> And we're seeing, hearing and reading them in a very elaborate manner with a lot of, I don't know, emotion.

It's like we used to read or see things or hear stories without watching the news in such a way that was dramatized to its worst point to get the attention.

And this is one of the reasons I don't really watch the news ever.

I want to be informed and educated, but I don't want to be entertained, uh, or captivated by my emotions, overwhelmed by watching information as entertainment.

And so I try to step back and say, "Tell me the facts, tell me the data so that I can have a rational thought around it."

Otherwise, I'll get tied in to just watching the news and be like, "The world is ending."

>> Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think we all have to do a better job of protecting our own minds, our own spaces, what we can take and what we can't take.

Because you only get one mind.

And I know you pride yourself on your mind.

I pride myself on my mind.

Dude, we only get one.

And I think we all have to do a better job of protecting our own mental health.

>> I grew up in a religion called Christian Science, and the founder is a female.

Her name is Mary Baker Eddy.

And she had a quote that said, "Stand porter at the door of thought."

Don't allow these thoughts to enter the mind continuously, because then it'll damage everything in your life.

So stand porter at the door of thought, be a guard at the thought of the mind, and don't just allow anything to be consumed by it.

So, um, what has been the biggest struggle then, for you mentally and emotionally in the last couple of years?

>> The biggest struggle is trying to ascend to the mountaintop.

And the reason I say that, bro, is... >> To get to the mountaintop?

>> Yes.

Trying to climb.

>> What is the mountaintop?

>> I think the mountaintop is different for everyone.

>> Is that a goal?

>> For me, the mountaintop is checking boxes.

>> Okay.

>> Right?

Like, it's checking boxes.

>> Give me an example.

>> An example.

Okay, great.

Now I host my own show on Sports, "Speak For Yourself."

Check.

Okay, great.

Now I partnered with Oprah on a book.

Oh.

Another book.

Oh, a third book.

Check.

Okay, but the book has to best-sell.

Check.

It's just like -- It's just trying to ascend, trying to do, uh, and not being dejected when you don't.

And then, bro, I also think trying to figure out our place on this Earth.

I think we're all trying to do that.

When we remove the masks and the makeup, figuratively speaking, of our life, we're all trying to figure out what value am I providing to the people I'm interacting with.

What value am I providing to society?

Where is my place in life?

And I've been constantly -- My biggest struggle the last couple of years is trying to really figure that out.

And now that it appears I figured that out, trying to sustain... >> Right.

>> ...the heat -- Excuse me -- and the hate that comes with that.

>> The heat and the hate.

I don't think people understand that once you have audience and attention, there will be heat and hate.

No matter how pure your intentions are, no matter how kind you try to be, there will be hate.

>> But you know what I've realized, man?

And my co-host Marcellus Wiley says this.

Criticism is the cost of praise.

>> It is.

>> We don't realize that enough.

Like, recently for those watching sports news, Naomi Osaka, number one tennis player in the world just a couple of years ago.

She tried to stop a tennis match because somebody said, "You suck."

Somebody yelled, "You suck!"

And she went to the judge -- went to the ump and was like, "Yo, can we stop the match?

Can we get them kicked out?"

>> Wow.

That was recently?

>> Recently, two days ago.

>> Wow.

She tried to stop the match and say, "Kick that person out"?

>> Correct.

Um, and at the end of the post-game presser, tears came into her eyes for different reasons.

And I was just like, "Criticism is the cost of praise."

>> If you don't want criticism, don't play the game.

>> You -- You don't have a choice.

>> Don't play.

Don't show up.

>> You can't play if you don't want criticism.

It's not even like you were advising.

It's like, "Yo, criticism comes with it."

>> Here's the funny thing -- Not to cut you off -- is that, uh, you're gonna be criticized at the top or criticized for doing nothing.

You might as well do something you enjoy because if you're sitting on the couch and you have all this potential, but you don't do something, the people closest to her say, "What are you doing?

Give me their potential.

I could do something great with this, but they're just sitting on the couch depressed, worried about people's thoughts or opinions?"

>> Mm-hmm.

>> There's a price either way.

>> You gotta pay it either way.

>> You gotta pay it either way.

Maybe it's greater price as you're climbing and dealing with the more attention.

But there's a price either way.

>> You know what else, man?

And I've realized this, too.

And it's hit me in the face.

You can't call for attention and hang up.

>> Yeah.

Someone look at me.

Oh, but only say nice things about me.

>> You can't, you can't.

And whether we intentionally call for attention or we don't, you can't call for attention and hang up, like the boy who cried wolf, like us in our friend groups, like a child in a house cries and cries.

Mother asks, "What's wrong?"

Father asks, "What's wrong?"

"Nothing."

"What are you crying for?"

You can't call for attention and hang up.

And so I think there's just a lot of -- of learning and discovering that I'm doing on this journey.

>> Yeah.

The emotional regulation.

I was just interviewing a neuroscientist/brain surgeon.

He's an expert in both areas.

So he studies the brain and the mind, right, the thoughts.

And after this 2-hour conversation, the whole thing came down to the number-one skill to have is the ability to emotionally regulate your feelings and how thoughts, the brain and the mind are connected to feelings and the ability to emotionally regulate them.

Not saying that you're not gonna have wide range of emotions, but the ability to regulate under pressure, under stress, so that you can get into flow, that you can get back to your mission, your vision and not be in chaos mode.

You know, you can defend yourself rationally, essentially in times of chaos.

And he said, "That's kind of what it comes down to.

If I could teach a skill, it would be the skill of emotional regulation."

And I think the farther we try to strive to unlock our potential, the more we need to learn that, because the more people are going to be coming at us, it sounds like.

>> Yeah, yeah.

One, I think that's a phenomenal thought.

I think it was Michael Jordan's trainer who said, "Emotions are dangerous but controlled anger is like --" Or "Controlled aggression is like the most..." >> Dangerous of all.

Is that Tim Grover?

>> Yeah, yeah.

It's like the most dangerous of all.

>> Because being emotional and reacting, you're gonna foul out.

You're gonna do something stupid.

Which I did many times in multiple sports.

And then you learn the lesson.

"Oh, my emotional reaction gets me on the bench or hurts my team."

>> You know what's interesting?

We're talking sports, but this is a life conversation.

Because while you can say foul out literally, figuratively speaking, if you're at the grocery store and then you get upset and then you get emotional and then you get into it with the cashier, emotionally fouling out.

If you're talking to a friend, and then you get into it with your friend and then you say something you shouldn't have, emotionally fouling out, relationship-oriented.

If you're talking to somebody and you're dating and then you get into it -- So we're talking a sports conversation, but it is the controlling of your mind.

But to me, bro, everything starts with the mind.

Both our greatest limitations and our greatest accomplishments, to me, it's all up here.

>> Absolutely.

What has been the biggest -- You talked about living a life without failure or fear of failure?

>> Living a life without failure.

>> What is the biggest fear for you in the last couple of years?

And now that you've -- Let's call it broken through, right?

You were already successful.

I mean, you're an NFL player and had a career in sports TV and all these things, but broken through to a different level.

What is now the greatest fear?

>> Oh, that's why I like talking to you.

>> Same, man.

>> I like talking to you.

Um, my biggest fear is becoming complacent.

My biggest fear is not realizing I'm living inside of a box that is around me.

My biggest fear is not realizing, "Hey, there is a door you haven't yet opened.

And what you think is a world is actually just a locker that you are inside of."

One of my greatest, one of my favorite scenes of any movie.

It's the end of "Men in Black."

I believe it's "Men in Black 1," and at the end of the movie, they open up a locker and they open up the locker and they realize there's an entire nother world out there.

They thought they were living in their world.

But there's such a bigger world out there.

And my greatest fear is not pushing beyond a boundary because I don't even realize the boundary is set, because I didn't set it because somebody else set it.

And I've been living inside of somebody else's box or somebody else's boundary.

The reason we don't achieve our highest highs, bro, isn't because we're not skilled.

It isn't because we're not talented.

It isn't even necessarily because we don't want it.

It's because we don't really realize how high we could achieve.

I think that's the biggest limiting reaction to realizing our highs.

One of my favorite stories, if not my favorite story, the story of Roger Bannister.

>> 4-minute mile.

>> 4-minute mile.

For those that aren't familiar, Roger Bannister.

Scientists believed it was physically impossible -- impossible -- to run a mile in under four minutes.

Quick history lesson.

That's my favorite story.

Scientists believe it's physically impossible to run a mile in under four minutes.

May 5, 1952.

It had never been done in 2,000 years, but by May 6th, Roger Bannister, Oxford, England, runs a mile, 3 minutes, 59 seconds.

Within two years, 10 people ran a mile in under four minutes.

Now the world record for the mile -- 3 minutes, 43 seconds and roughly 1,800 people have done so.

Why?

Because one man, Roger Bannister, removed the barriers that other people set around him.

One man said, "You know what?

I'm not gonna subscribe to that barrier."

One man said, "I'm not gonna subscribe to goals."

One man said, "I'm not gonna subscribe to that."

And he broke the dam open for everybody.

And after that dam was broken for everybody, the whole rest of the running world proceeded to run through it.

So my biggest fear, bro, is living inside of a box that somebody else set before me.

>> So if you don't have goals to break or reach, what are you reaching for?

Like, what's beyond a barrier that you're not trying to accomplish?

>> For me, I'm reaching for movement.

That's all it is.

I'm reaching for progress.

I'm moving forward.

>> So it's not reaching an end goal.

>> No.

It's moving.

It's moving forward, man.

You're gonna do another episode tomorrow and hopefully it's better than today.

And then the next tomorrow.

And hopefully it's better than that day.

You're just gonna keep moving.

Like, let's not get so bogged down by... "But I didn't get this.

Oh, but I got that."

Just keep moving forward.

When you go to a beach and you end up standing in the ocean, eventually after about five minutes, you'll look back and be like, "Yo, I done drifted way far away."

And you just drifted further than you ever thought.

That's where I'm at now.

Let's keep moving forward.

We get so caught up in "I want to be married by 26, and I want to have two kids, and I want to have bought my first home by 29.

And by 35, I want to be done having kids.

And I want to have four kids, two boys, two girls, preferably twins, because that would be easiest."

Bump all that.

Forget all that goal setting.

Goals lead to failure.

I want to live the most impactful and significant life I can possibly live.

We have to constantly evolve and learn to fall in love with the evolution of ourself.

You know, step outside of these boxes, bro.

Because there is a box there.

Step outside of it, let's evolve and let's just become the best version of ourself.

>> My man.

Appreciate you.

>> My freaking brother.

>> Good stuff.

We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes.

And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

Now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course Find Your Greatness is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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