.

>>> MAJOR FOUNDING WITH DAVID CRUZ IS FUNDED BY -- MORE SNFGZ IS ONLINE AT NJ REALTOR.COM.

RJW BARNIBUS HEALTH.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE.

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♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, IT'S "REPORTER'S ROUND TABLE," I'M DAVID CRUZ, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I DON'T HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE, SO, A LOT OF TIMES I FORGET THAT PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY LOVE THEIR CARS AND THEY WANT THEIR HIGHWAYS AND THEIR PARKING AND THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR TRAINS, YOUR BUSES OR YOUR FERRIES, IT'S ROADS VERSE HAVES RAILS IN NEW JERSEY, IT'S A GREAT BEAT TO COVER AS A REPORTER, YOU ARE NEVER OUT OF NEWS.

IT'S WHAT LARRY RIGGS COVERS, AND HE JOINS US ON REPORTER'S ROUND TABLE.

LARRY, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

>> THANKS, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU KNOW, I SECRETLY ENVY YOUR BEAT, YOU COVER EVERYBODY THAT STEPS OUT OF THE SKMOUS TRIES TO GET THEY WERE.

BUT IS IT REALLY CARS VERSE THE REST OF US OUT THERE?

>> YOU ARE PRETTY ACCURATE ON THAT.

CARS MOVE 90% OF THE PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY.

THAT'S CENSUS NUMBERS.

THEY SAY, 90% OF THE PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY COMMUTE BY CAR AND 10% BY MASS TRANSIT, WHICH IS BELIEVE IT OR NOT AMONG THE HIGHEST IN THE NATION.

WE LOVE OUR CARS HERE AND.

I GUESS THAT, NOTHING KIND OF TI TIPIFIES IT MORE THAN THE CONGESTION PRICING.

NEW JERSEY COMMUTERS ARE PAYING AT THE CROSSINGS AND THEY HAVE TO PAY AGAIN IF THEY DRIVE THROUGH A CERTAIN PART OF THE CITY.

THIS STORY HAS TAKEN OFF, ALTHOUGH, I REMEMBER THEM TALKING ABOUT, SQUON JEGZ PRICING D THEY PUT IT OFF BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC?

>> YES, YOU ARE RIGHT, WELL THEY PUT IT OFF BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC AND THERE WERE DELAYS IN WASHINGTON.

GETTING APPROVALS.

IT'S AN ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW THAT THEY NEED TO GO THROUGH AND BASICALLY, LACK OF A BETTER TERM, THE BREAKS WERE ON THAT DURING THE PANDEMIC.

SO, SOME PEOPLE BLAMED THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, NOW WE HAVE A NEW ADMINISTRATION IN WASHINGTON AND OF COURSE, POLLY TROTTENBERG, THE FORMER NYC D.O.T.

COMMISSIONER IS OVER THAT.

>> EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS.

>> UNDER CONGESTION PRICING.

YOU TRAVEL SOUTH OF 60TH STREET IN MANHATTAN, YOU ARE IN ESSENCE GOING TO PAY A TOLL FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF TRAVELING DOWN THERE.

THAT MONEY IS GOING TO RAISE ABOUT A BILLION A YEAR AND THAT'S GOING GO TO THE MTA'S CAPITOL PLAN.

SPECIFIC LY FOR FIXING UP BUSES AND TRAINS AND THE IDEA IS WE MAKE THE SUBWAY BETTER AND MORE RELIABLE AND PEOPLE WILL LEAVE THE CARS AT HOME AND GET ON THE TRAIN.

NOW, THE THING IS, THIS THIIS T THIRD VERSION.

THE OTHER VERSIONS CHARGED THE DRIVERS BEFORE THE IMPROVEMENTS CAME.

THIS WAS MODIFMODIFIED, A 2018 T RECOMMENDED THAT WE START CHARGING CERTAIN CLASSES OF DRIVERS, COMMERCIAL DRIVERS SPECIFICALLY BEFORE WE CHARGE REGULAR CAR DRIVERS AND WE PLOW IT IN TO THE MTA RIGHT AWAY.

IT'S EXPECTED THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO BORROW ABOUT $15 BILLION FROM, BASED ON THE PROCEEDS OF CONGESTION PRICING.

>> WHAT IS THE TIMEFRAME?

>> TIMEFRAME IS, I THINK, NOW DEPLOYMENT, SUPPOSED TO BE THIS YEAR AND I THINK DEPLOYMENT NOW HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK TO 2023.

>> YOU KNOW THE OTHER BIG STORY WE ARE HEARING NOW IS THIS GAS CRISIS, IS IT REAL OR IMAGINED?

PEOPLE ARE GOING, FILLING UP, YOU KNOW, BUCKETS WITH GASOLINE.

>> ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE OUT OF PETROLEUM THAT YOU SHOULD NOT FILL UP.

>> RIGHT.

>> THE GOOD NEWS IS YOU SHOWED A CLIP OF TANKS ON THE SIDE OF THE NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE, AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THOSE TANKS AND REFINERIES THAT BASICALLY NEW JERSEY AND NEW YORK HAS STAYED PRETTY MUCH CLEAR OF THIS SHORTAGE.

YOU KNOW, I DID A SPOT CHECK YESTERDAY WITH THE NEW JERSEY GAS STATION AND CONVENIENCE STORE ASSOCIATION AND THEY SAID ALL 15 HUNDRED OF THE STATIONS HAD GAS.

NOBODY REPORTED THAT THEY WERE OUT AND SOME WHO WERE DISTRIBUTORS OF GARKS WERE ABLE TO PULL TANK TRUCKS UP AND FILL AS UP AS MUCH AS THEY NEEDED.

ANY OUT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HAVE BEEN IN NEW JERSEY HAVE BEEN SPOTTY AND IT'S BLAMED ON A DIFFERENT PROBLEM THAT MAY REAR ITS HEAD LATER THIS YEAR.

AND THAT'S A SHORTAGE OF TANK DRIVERS.

TANK TRUCKS LAID OFF PEOPLE, THEY LOST ABOUT 10% OF THEIR WORKFORCE IN THE PANDEMIC.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE NOT DRIVING.

DEMAND IS GOING UP AND THESE ARE THE MOST QUALIFIED DRIVERSER, Y YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HAZMAT LICENSE.

YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE A SPECIALIZED DRIVER AND THEY ARE IN A HIRING BLITZ RIGHT NOW.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE COLONIAL PIPELINE MADE THAT PROBLEM WORSE.

WE HAVE BEEN INSLATED HERE.

>> TALKING ABOUT THE SPENDS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THE BIDEN DEAL.

YOU THINK AFTER SPENDING TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS THERE COULD BE INNOVATIVE IDEAS IN THERE, ARE THERE ANY?

ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING?

THAT COULD BE FUNDED BY THIS TRILLION DOLLAR PACKAGE?

WELL, WHAT'S BEING TALKED ABOUT OF COURSE, YOU HAVE THE BIG THREE.

ROADS, BRIDGES, AND RAIL.

SOME OF THE NONTRADITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE ARE THINGS SUCH AS BROADBAND.

SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS BRINGS UP IN THEIR REPORT CARD EVERY TWO YEARS -- >> I'M THINKING MORE LIKE TURNING BIKE LANES IN TO BIKE HIGHWAYS.

LIKE THEY DO IN THE BIG COUNTRIES.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COMPONENT.

THERE'S FRIENDLINESS FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TOWARDS THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

THERE'S AN EXPANSION OF A HIGHWAY IN DALLAS THAT WAS PLANNED AND BASICALLY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SLAMMED THE BRAKES ON THAT.

AND SAID, WE NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT, SO, THEY ARE LOOKING AT GETTING AWAY OF THE TRADITIONAL ROADS, BRIDGES AND TRANSIT AND LOOKING IN TO OTHERS AND THAT INCLUDES ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE.

THAT IS THE BIGGEST HISTORY WIW -- THE BIGGEST LIFT.

IT'S NOT A LOT OF PLACES TO PLUG IN, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GARAGE.

IF YOU WANT TO GET ALL THE URBAN DWELLERS TO PLUG IN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC CHARGING STATION AND RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH OF AN INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THAT.

SO, HOPEFULLY -- >> LET ME GET A QUESTION IN HERE ABOUT NEW JERSEY TRANSIT.

THE GOVERNOR LIKES TO SAY, I WILL FIX IT IF IT KILLS ME AND IT JUST MIGHT.

IT CLEARLY HAS NOT KILLED HIM, SO, THAT MEANS THAT NEW JERSEY FRANCE IT -- TRANSIT IS FIXED, RIGHT?

>> I WILL SAY IT'S ON THE TRACK OF BEING FIXED.

THEY HAVE OLD EQUIPMENT.

YOU KNOW, RAIL EQUIPMENT HAS VERY HIGH LIFE, YOU CAN GET 40 YEARS OUT OF SOME TRAINS AND NEW JERSEY TRANSIT HAS GOTTEN 40 YEARS OUT OF THE OLDEST EQUIPMENT.

THE THING IS, AS KEVIN CORBETT, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LIKES TO SAY, YOU CANNOT GO TO THE LOT AND BUY THESE THINGS LIKE YOU DO A CAR.

THEY HAVE TO BE SPECIAL ORDERED AND CUSTOM MADE AND IT TAKES YEARS TO DELIVER THEM.

SO, WE HAVE 25 NEW DUEL MODE LOCOMOTIVES THAT ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING DELIVERED.

THAT'S A POSITIVE, AND IN FACT, THE GOVERNOR HIGHLIGHTED THAT IN A PENN STATION PRESS CONFERENCE.

STILL ON COME, ARE REPLACING ALL THE RAIL CARS OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, ANOTHER POSITIVE IS THAT THEY HAVE GOTTEN ON CLOSES THOUGH WHAT HE HAS CALLED A FULL BENCH OF ENGINEERS.

THEY HAVE 393 ENGINEERS, THEY WANT TO KEEP IT GOING SO THEY CAN REPLACE THEM AS THEY RETIRE.

>> YOU KNOW, I COMPLAINED THE OTHER DAY ABOUT AN APARTMENT BUILDING THAT WAS GOING TO GET BUILT ON MY BLOCK.

IT DID NOT COME WITH PARKING AND PEOPLE CLAPPED BACK AND SAID , NO, PARKING ONLY ATTRACTS CARS.

>> THAT WAS WE ARE OTHER CYCLING CLUBS.

ARE THEY HAVING AN IMPACT ON HOW WE VIEW, PARTICULARLY GETTING AROUND IN HER BAN CENTERS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PUSH AND A PULL.

ESPECIALLY WHERE I LIVE IN THE HEIGHTS, WE SEE IT WITH DEVELOPMENTS.

THE ISSUE IS, DEVELOPERS ARE SAYING WELL I HAVE TO PROVIDE LESS PARKING.

BUT THE THING IS, AND THEY ADVERTISE TRANSIT AS AN AMENITY, THEY DON'T PAY IN TO TRANSIT AND IT'S A BIG LIFT , WHAT IS HAPPENING IS, IT'S SORT OF A KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE SAYING THAT WE ARE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT GOING TO PROVIDE PARKING.

PEOPLE COME HERE TO LEAVE THEIR CARS ELSEWHERE.

BUT THEY ARE NOT PAYING IN TO TRANSIT.

THEY ARE NOT PROVIDING FUNDING FOR THOSE BIKE LANES.

AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, BIKE JJC DOES GREAT WORK.

THE BIKE LANES HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE AND THEY HAVE TO CONNECT AND BE PROTECTED.

AND IT'S KIND OF A, IF YOU BUILD IT, AND PEOPLE FEEL SECURE, THEY ARE GOING TO GO OUT AND RIDE ON IT.

BECAUSE IT'S THERE.

YOU KNOW, MY RUN ARE JOKE IS WHEN I'M ON MY BIKE AND A DRIVER HONKS AT ME, THEY SHOULD BE SAYING THANK YOU, I'M NOT ANOTHER CAR IN FRONT OF THEM AND WHEN THEY GET TO WHERE THEY ARE GOING, I WILL NOT BE FIGHTING FOR A PARKING PLACE.

I WILL BE CHAINING UP TO A LAMP POET.

THERE'S A WIN THERE, AND WE NEED TO CHANGE THE MENTALITY OF THE ROADS.

ROADS WERE CREATED BY THE GOOD ROAD MOVEMENT STARTED BY BICYCLISTS IN THE TURN OF THE CENTURY AND THE BIKE COMPANIES MORPHED TO PRODUCING CARS THE BIKES WERE THERE FIRST AND WE HAVE TO LEARN TO SHARE.

>> LARRY HIGGS, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> ALL RIGHT WILL, LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL HERE.

CATHERINE LANDERGIN IS NEW JERSEY BUREAU CHIEF FOR POLITCO, AND JOHN RIGHT MEIER IS THE BUDGET AND FINANCE WRITER FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

WE HEARD FROM LARRY ON CONGESTION PRICING.

THIS PROPOSAL WAS OUT THERE FOR A WHILE AND WAS SIDELINED BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

MIKE KELLY WHAT CAN LEDGE SLASLAYER S -- WHAT CAN LEGISLATORS DO ABOUT THIS?

ARE PEOPLE IN BURGON COUNTY COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS?

>> NO, GIVEN WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE LAST YEAR, WITH THE PANDEMIC, PEOPLE CAN'T WAIT TO GET ON THE ROADS.

IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS WHEN THEY DISCOVER THAT THE ROADS ARE CROWDED WE WILL BE BACK TO THE USUAL NEW JERSEY COMPLAINTS ABOUT THIS.

I THINK A LOT OF WHAT LARRY POINTED OUT IS, IS A PROBLEM THAT IS GOING TO -- A PROBLEM THAT IS GOING TO TAKE YEARS TO UNTANGLE IF WE EVER CAN.

IT'S A FACT OF LIFE THAT NEW JERSEY HAS A LOT OF CARS AND THE ROADS ARE OLD AND THEY NEED TO BE UPGRADED AND IT WILL TAKE PERHAPS MORE THAN A DECADE IF THEY START NOW.

>> WELL THANKS FOR THAT OPTIMISTIC VIEW.

NO MENTION OF CONGESTION PRICING IN GOVERNOR MURPHY'S NEW TV AD, IT'S THE TIP OF AN ICEBERG OF TV ADS THAT IS HEADING STRAIGHT TO YOUR TV WITH MILLIONS DOLLARS TO SPEND ON A PRIMARY WITH NO OPPONENT.

WHEN WILL IT BE SAFE TO WATCH TV AGAIN, CATHERINE?

>> NEVER SHE SAYS.

>> NEVER.

YEAH, NO, I MEAN, SO HE STARTED LAUNCHING THE ADS AND IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO BE FOCUSED ON THE RECOVERY.

AND HE HAS GREAT TIMING, RIGHT?

THINGS ARE REOPENING.

HE IS, YOU KNOW, ANNOUNCED ANOTHER SLATE OF BIG LIFT WILLING OF RESTRICTIONS NEXT WEEK AND IT'S RIGHT AS HE IS GOING TO BE GOING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

AND SO, YEAH, I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE MORE ADS, LIKE THIS.

AND I GUESS IT WILL BE SAFE TO WATCH TELEVISION AFTER NOVEMBER.

>> JOHN RITEMEYER, NEW CDC GUIDANCE SAID THAT THE VACCINATED CAN SKIP THE MASKS IN MOST CASES.

WHAT KIND OF EFFECT WILL IT HAVE ON A, PEOPLE WANTING TO GET VACCINE NATD AND B, ON THE STATE'S KIND OF PSYCHE IN GENERAL A COUPLE OF WEEKS BEFORE MEMORIAL DAY.

>> IT SEEPS LIKE BIG INDUCEMENT, IF YOU ARE ON THE FENCE OF GETTING A VACCINE AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DO IT WITHOUT WEARING THE MASK, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TOLERATED FOR A LONG TIME, GETTING THE VACCINE IS CERTAINLY AN INDUCEMENT TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO DO MASKLESS FROM NOW ON.

SO I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS.

YOU KNOW, HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN NEW JERSEY, WE ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE IF GOVERNOR MURPHY IS GOING TO CHANGE THE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE RELATED TO MASKS AND WHAT YOU CAN DO IN DOORS AND OUTDOORS.

AND SO, WE WILL HAVE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IT DOES PUT THE PRESSURE ON THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION TO GET WITH IT, GIVEN THIS IS THE NEW FEDERAL GUIDANCE AND IT ALSO THREATENS IN SOME WAY A MIXED MESS MESSAGE, IF WE ARE SAYING THINGS ARE SO GOOD, WE CAN TAKE OUR MASKS OFF AND THEN , OH, NO, NOT SO MUCH YET, IT'S WHEN IS IT?

WE NEED AT SOME POINT THE ECONOMY TO GET BACK GOING, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO BE A NEEDLE THAT HAS TO BE THREAD GOING FORWARD FOR SURE.

>> MIKE I'M PICTURING MASK BURNING CEREMONIES LIKE WHEN THEY RETIRE THE OLD FLAGS AND THE RETURN OF HAND TO HAND HANDSHAKES AND FACE FORWARD HUGGING.

IS THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TO THIS SUMMER?

>> GOD, I HOPE SO.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THINK SPEAK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, WE ARE TIRED OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH.

THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT I STILL THINK WE HAVE A WAYS TO GO.

WHEN YOU HAVE LITERALLY HUNDRED-S OF PEOPLE STILL INFECTED WITH THE VIRUS ON ANY GIVEN DAY IN NEW JERSEY, I MEAN THE NUMBERS HAVE GONE DOWN.

BUT I THINK THE NUMBERS ARE STILL PRETTY HIGH.

AND WHAT IS WEIRD ABOUT THIS IN MY OPINION IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE DECISIONS, THE GOVERNOR IN PARTICULAR, IS RUN ARE FOR OFFICE.

HE IS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO ANGER HIS VOTERS.

I MEAN, AS JOHN CORRECTLY POINTED OUT, IT'S A THREAD THE NEEDLE KIND OF MOMENT HERE.

WE HAVE A HEALTH CRISIS, STILL GOING ON.

AND YET, WE HAVE THE PERSON WHO IS MAKING THE THE DECISIONS ABOUT THAT CRISIS IS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AND DOESN'T WANT TO ANGER HIS VOTERS.

AND I THINK THAT WE ARE IN A POINT NOW, AS A PEOPLE, NOT JUST IN NEW JERSEY, IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE I THINK FINALLY, YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE IS STARTING TO WIN OUT AND I GOT, GOSH, I HOPE IT IS.

THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH MISINFORMATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FROM THE DENIER PORTION OF OUR COUNTRY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DENIED THIS PANDEMIC.

AND I THINK, FINALLY THE SCIENCE IS STARTING TO EMERGE AS THE DOMINANT VOICE HERE AND I HOPE IT CONTINUES THAT WAY.

I BELIEVE IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE ARE GETTING OUT OF THIS AND AS YOU POINT OUT, DAVID, HAVE MASK BURNING CEREMONIES.

>> CATHERINE ARE, THE QUESTION WAS RAISED THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW LONG THIS STATE OF EMERGENCY COULD BE JUSTIFIED IF EVERYTHING IS REOPENED SAY, BY JULY?

THERE'S A LOT OF PROTECTIONS AND MORTARIUMS THAT ARE TIED TO THE EMERGENCY DECLARATIONS FROM THE GOVERN.

WILL WE START SEEING REPRESENT ARE CANS CALLING TO LIFT THE STATE OF EMERGENCY, YOU THINK?

>> I'M SURE WE WILL.

YEAH, I DEFINITELY THINK SO.

BUT, YOU MKNOW, I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF IT'S LIFTED BY MURPHY.

THEY HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR RE-OPENINGS AND CALLING FOR MURPHY TO STOP, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR VIEW, ABUSING HIS POWERS AS GOVERNOR.

>> A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS, RIGHT, IF THE MORATORIUM IS LIFTED ON EVICTIONS AND ON YOUR MORTGAGE PAYMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE FIND THEMSELVES REALLY SHORT AND THAT COULD CAUSE ANOTHER CRISIS IS, SO, I GUESS IF YOU ARE THE GOVERN YOU DEFINITELY WANT THAT TO BE THE SITUATION IN SAY, OCTOBER, RIGHT?

RIGHT BEFORE ELECTION DAY.

>> FOR SURE, YEAH, GOOD POINT.

>> JOHN SPEAKING OF GUIDANCE, THE FEDS GAVE GUIDANCE OF HOW THEY CAN SPEND THE RESCUE MONEY THAT THEY HAVE GOTTEN.

WHAT IS AT STAKE IN NEW JERSEY, HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT MIGHT THE RESTRICTIONS MEAN TO THE STATE BUDGET?

>> IT'S OVER $6 BILLION COMING STRAIGHT TO THE STATE AND BILLIONS MORE GOING OUT TO OTHER THINGS LIKE SCHOOLS AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, FOR THE STATE ITSELF, THERE ARE SOME ARE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER BATCHES OF FEDERAL AID.

INTERESTINGLY ONE OF THE USES IS REPLACING SAGGING REVENUES, BUT ACTUALLY NEW JERSEY IS REALLY NOT IN THAT MUCH OF A PREDICTAMENT ANYMORE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ISSUE WHERE WE ARE PROJECTING THE BIG LOSSES, IF ANYTHING, THE BUDGET IS OVER PERFORMING.

AND THE STATE BORROWED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS LAST YEAR, BASED ON PROJECTIONS THAT FORESAW LOSSES AND THAT, THAT KIND OF IS ONE AREA WHERE THE MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN USED AND WE DON'T REALLY NEED IT NFOR THAT PURPOSE .

THERE'S THINGS THAT NJ NEW JERS NEEDS TO DO.

WATER INFRASTRUCTURE, BROADBAND INFRASTRUCTURE, THERE'S WAYS THAT THE MONEY CAN BE USED THAT MAY NOT BE INCREDIBLY SEXY FROM AN ELECTION YEAR PERSPECTIVE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY HAS HAD CONCERNS RAISED ABOUT REPLACING THE DRINKING WATER INFRASTRUCTURE FOR A LONG TIME AND SOME COMMUNITIES HAVE AGING WATER SYSTEMS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE BASED IN LED AND OTHER MATERIALS THAT REALLY NEED TO BE REPLACED AND SO, THAT'S ONE AREA SKPSHLGS, YO -- AND I WROTE ABO THE TRUST FUND.

THE FUND HAS BEEN DRAWN DOWN AND HAS TO BE REPLENISHED, IT HAS TO BE RESTORED SO THERE'S MONEY TO PLAY FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS THE NEXT TIME THINGS GET BAD.

ONE OF THE PURPOSES THAT IS ALLOWED IS REPLENISHING THE EMERGENCY TRUST FUND.

WE WILL SEE IF THE GOVERNOR COMES FORWARD, OR THEY ANNOUNCE AN AGREEMENT, OTHER STATES HAVE ALREADY.

>> I WAS TELLING THE SENATE PRESIDENT HOW MUCH I MISSED GOING TO BUDGET HEARINGS AND I REALIZE I DID NOT REALLY MISS THE HEARINGS.

YOU HAD THE WONDERFUL FORTUNES OF HAVING TO DO IT.

JOHN, WHAT IS THAT PROCESS BEEN LIKE THIS YEAR?

WHAT COMMISSIONERS AND DEPARTMENTS HAVE HAD THE TOUGHEST TIME?

>> THE ONES WHO HAVE HAD TROUBLE DELIVERING SERVICES DURING THE PANDEMIC.

ER FOR, YOU KNOW, NOT GETTING MUCH OF LEE-WAY, YOU THINK OF THE MOTOR VEHICLE COMMISSION OR THE LABOR DEPARTMENT, HEALTH DEPARTMENT, IT'S BEEN INTERESTING TO WATCH HOW NOT MANY OF THE HEARINGS HAVE DWELLED TOO MUCH ON THE BUDGET.

IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A RELITIGATING OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PANDEMIC AND HOLDING SOME OF THE ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS FEET TO THE FIRE IN THE INSTANCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, THINGS DID NOT WORK AS WELL AS WE WANTED THEM TO.

SO, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE LABOR DEPARTMENT, IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BEEN THE HICCUPS WITH GETTING UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS OUT.

AND MOTOR VEHICLES, IT'S WHY ARE WE CLOSING DOWN AGENCIES WHEN PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO RENEW THEIR THE LICENSES.

AND IN SOME WAYS IT'S, THESE ARE THE ONLY OPPORTUNITIES THAT LAWMAKERS HAVE IN MANY CASE ON TO SPEAK TO A COMMISSIONER OR CABINET LEVEL OFFICIAL.

AND SO, THEY HAVE TALKED A LITTLE BIT LESS ABOUT SAY, WHAT IS YOUR DEPARTMENTAL BUDGET IS, AND WHAT YOUR NEEDS ARE GOING FORWARD?

AND THEY HAVE TALKED MORE LOOKING BACK AND RELITIGATING HOW THOSE DEPARTMENTS PERFORMED IN THE PANDEMIC.

>> CATHERINE, WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT A FISCAL CLIFF THAT'S COMING IN MAYBE THE NEXT BUDGET.

WHAT ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CONCERN THAT IF WE OVER SPEND THAT THE $6.4 BILLION THAT NEW JERSEY IS RECEIVING AND IT'S GETTING IT ALL, I'M TOLD IN ONE LUMP SUM BECAUSE OF OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

WE GET IT, YOU KNOW, IN THIS YEAR.

WE CAN SPEND $6.4 BILLION, YOU KNOW, NOW.

BUT, WHAT -- THE FEAR IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH THE SPENDING.

SO, WHAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE HAPPEN IS, SOME KIND OF NEGOTIATION, WHERE THIS, THIS MONEY IS SPREAD OUT OVER SEVERAL YEARS.

THE GOVERNOR HAS THE UNILATERAL AUTHORITY TO SPEND THE MONEY.

BUT HE HAS TOLD LAWMAKERS THAT HE IS GOING TO NEGOTIATE WITH THEM.

SOME THINGS THAT I'M HEARING IN ADDITION TO WHAT JOHN SAID ON THAT WHAT IT COULD BE SPEND FOR.

I'M HEARING PAYMENTS FOR ESSENTIAL WORKERS.

LIKE GROCERY STORE WORKERS.

SO, MAYBE NOT LIKE A STIMULUS CHECK THAT YOU SAW, LIKE IS BEING CONSIDERED IN CALIFORNIA, BUT PAYMENTS TO PEOPLE INDIVIDUALLY.

AND NOTABLY THEY WANTED TO PAY DOWN DEBT WITH THE MONEY AND YOU CAN'T.

THERE MAY BE WAYS TO WORK AROUND THAT.

THEY CAN MAKE OTHER PAYMENTS FOR EXPENSES.

>> ALL RIGHT, MIKE KELLY.

LOOKS LIKE I'M GO ING TO LEAVE IT TO YOU TO WRAP IT UP.

A BILL TO TAKE OVER ATLANTIC CITY FOR FOUR MORE YEARS WILL PASS.

WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THE STATE INTERVENTION OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS AND WHAT IS LEFT TO DO THAT THEY NEED FOUR MORE YEARS?

>> IT'S A GOOD QUESTION, DAVID, I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT IT ATLANTIC CITY FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH ATLANTIC CITY, THEY SEEM TO TAKE ONE OR TWO STEPS FORWARDER AND THEN QUICKLY TAKE ONE OR TWO STEPS BACK.

I THINK WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SORT OF BRING TOGETHER THE CITY FINANCES IN A WAY THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, ATLANTIC CITY IS STRUGGLING WITH WHAT IT WANTS TO BE.

THAT'S BEEN THE ESSENTIAL QUESTION THAT HAS HUNG OVER THE PIECE OF REAL ESTATE FOR DECADES NOW.

IS IT GOING TO BE A CASINO TOWN, IF IT IS, WHAT KIND OF GAMBLERS DOES IT WANT TO ATTRACT.

AND THEN THERE'S THIS OTHER, YOU KNOW, QUESTION OF, CAN THEY EVER BRING IN QUOTE UNQUOTE FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT?

ATLANTIC CITY HAS NEVER BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I'M NOT SURE A STATE TAKE OVER WOULD HELP.

THAT A STATE TAKE OVER, OF COURSE, HELPS TO, YOU KNOW, STABILIZE THE FINANCES AND THAT SORT OF THING.

AND I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

PROBABLY ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF A STATE TAKE OVER ON CAN'T HURT ANY MORE THAN, AND I THINK, I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY THE REASON THIS BILL WILL GO THROUGH.

>> ALL RIGHT WILL, THAT IS GOING TO BE "ROUND TABLE" FOR TODAY.

THANK YOU TO OUR PANEL, GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YOU, AND OUR GUEST LARRY HIGGS, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER,@DAVID CRUZ NJ, AND SUBSCRIBE FOR CHATBOX AND NJ BUSINESS BEAT.

FOR THE CREW HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING, WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

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