>>> NOW, WE HAVE HEARD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW SILICON VALLEY HAS GONE ALL IN FOR 22.0 COMPARED TO THE DISTANCE THE TECH PROS KEPT DURING HIS FIRST TERM.

IT IS NOT JUST ELON MUSK.

MARK ZUCKERBERG HAS MADE THE PILGRIMAGE AND THE PRO-TRUMP CHANGES TO CONTENT CHECKING.

NOW, JOE LONSDALE, A BILLIONAIRE SILICON VALLEY INVESTOR TELLS WALTER ISAACSON WHY HE THINKS ARE SO MANY TECHNOLOGY LEADERS ARE MAKING THE SWITCH.

>> THANK YOU CHRISTIANE AND JOE LONSDALE, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANKS, GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BIG NEWS THIS PAST WEEK, WHICH IS MARK ZUCKERBERG DECIDING THAT FACEBOOK IS NO LONGER GOING TO MODERATE CONTENT.

ALL OF META IS GOING TO MOVE AWAY FROM THAT.

TELL ME, THAT IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR IN TERMS OF FREE SPEECH.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT AND WHAT THE DANGERS MIGHT BE.

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS.

IT HAS BEEN A BATTLE FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS, WALTER, AND THIS IS A HUGE VICTORY FOR THE SITE OF FREE SPEECH.

THERE IS A BIG SHIFT WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VICTORY, WITH ELON MUSK, WHO HAS BEEN WORKING HARD ON THIS.

HE IS THE BIGGEST CHAMPION.

IT IS A GREAT.

MARK HAS GIVEN HIM AND SAID YOU KNOW WHAT, I WAS WRONG.

PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST MY SENSORS ANYMORE, WE ARE GOING TO REDO IT, WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW ELON MUSK'S LEAD.

THIS WAS A DEBATE IN OUR SOCIETY.

IT TAKES A LOT OF CONFIDENCE TO ATTEND THE LOST AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING WASN'T CORRECT.

I HAVE TO APPLAUD MARK ZUCKERBERG.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ATTACKING HIM FOR ONLY DOING IT AFTER TRUMP WON.

HE SAID THIS IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AND I WANT TO BE TRUSTED AGAIN AND I THINK THAT IS A GREAT THING.

>> OKAY, LET'S LOOK AT SOME OF THE POTENTIAL DOWNSIDES.

ARE CERTAIN THINGS, EVEN SAY FINANCIAL SCAMS OR CRYPTO SCANS OR DRUG SCAMS OR SOMETHING, DON'T THOSE HAVE TO BE WEEDED OUT?

>> I THINK THERE ARE DEFINITELY WEIRD SCAMS, ILLEGAL THINGS, BAD THINGS PEOPLE TRY TO DO.

YOU WANT TO TRY TO PAY ON THOSE ACCOUNTS FOR DOING SCAMS AND I THINK TWITTER TRIES TO DO THAT AS WELL.

THIS IS A VERY TOUGH GAME TO GET RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK FACEBOOK EVER GOT THAT FOR ME RIGHT, I DON'T THINK X GOT THAT RIGHT, I DON'T THINK OTHER WEBSITES GOT BUT FOR THE RIGHT., TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN WITH X AND FACEBOOK HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT FULLY RIGHT.

>> YOU BASICALLY HAVE THESE VERY COMPLICATED ALGORITHMS.

YOU HAVE BILLIONS OF POSTS, PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF POSTS, A LARGE NUMBER.

NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU HAVE, NO MATTER HOW MANY ALGORITHMS YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME TRADE-OFFS.

EVEN IF YOU ARE SAYING YOU ARE GOING TO ALLOW FREE SPEECH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALGORITHMS TO STOP CHILD ABUSE MATERIAL, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

YOU HAVE TO SET THE THINGS SOMEWHERE.

YOU HAVE TO TRY TO STOP PEOPLE WHO ARE POSTING SPAM, ANY ACCOUNT CUT DOING A SCAM, YOU HAVE TO TURN OFF.

YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW, YOU ARE DOING YOUR VERY BEST, NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

IT IS QUITE A CHALLENGE.

IT IS AND FOR US TO SIT ON THE SIDELINES AND CRITICIZE THESE GUYS AND DECIDE YOU ARE DOING IS WRONG.

IT IS HARD TO BE IN CHARGE OF THESE PLATFORMS AND GET IT RIGHT.

I AGREE WITH MORE OF WHAT ELON MUSK WAS DOING THEN MARK ZUCKERBERG BUT I KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL AND HE WOULD GET ATTACKED FROM THE LEFT, HE WOULD GET ATTACKED FROM THE RIGHT.

IT IS A HARD THING TO GET THESE THINGS RIGHT.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN A CRUSADER AGAINST THE "WOKE MIND VIRUS."

I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR RARELY SEEN A PENDULUM SWING AS FAST AS IT HANDS AGAINST THAT TYPE OF THINKING.

DO YOU WORRY THAT THE PENDULUM MAY SWING TOO FAR, IN SOME WAYS?

>> WALTER, I AM WORRIED THE PENDULUM IS SWINGING CULTURALLY BUT WE ARE NOT EXPUNGING THESE IDEOLOGIES THAT HAVE CONQUERED OUR INSTITUTIONS.

IF YOU GO AROUND THE COUNTRY AND SEE WHAT HAS HAPPENED, MOST OF OUR UNIVERSITY DEPARTMENTS AND LIBERAL ARTS, HISTORY OR SOCIOLOGY OR EDUCATION OR SO MANY OTHER AREAS, SO MANY OF THESE PARTS OF OUR GOVERNMENT INSTITUTIONS, SO MANY OF OUR NGOs WERE COVERED BY THIS "WOKE MIND VIRUS," WHICH IS FOCUSED ON IDENTITY POLITICS, IT COMES FROM MARXISM, IT IS FOCUSED ON CANCEL CULTURE, IT IS AGAINST THE U.S. AND GUILT RIDDEN.

IT IS DRIVEN BY FEAR.

>> I HAVE UNDERSTOOD THE FIVE SHIFT IN TERMS OF THE THINGS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, SUCH AS IDENTITY POLITICS.

I ALSO WEIGH THAT AGAINST THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY, INCLUDING RACISM OR THE HEADWINDS THAT SOMEBODY IN NEW ORLEANS HERE, BORN BLACK IN THE NINTH WARD FACES COMPARED TO WHAT YOU AND I DO.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T SORT OF LOOSE A BALANCE HERE?

>> 100%, WALTER.

THERE WAS THE TRUTH IS THAT THERE WAS AN EXTRA ORDINARY RACISM THAT HURT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, THESE COMMUNITIES ARE STILL DAMAGED FROM RACISM THAT HAPPENED.

AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, I THINK THE RACISM WAS MUCH, MUCH, MUCH WORSE IN THE PAST.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT RACISM TODAY BUT I THINK IT WAS MUCH WORSE IN THE PAST.

ALL OF US SHOULD TO SEE THAT AND SHOULD WANT PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE OPPORTUNITY.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE ANSWER TO RACISM IS NOT MORE RACISM.

I THINK THAT WAS A HUGE MISTAKE OUR SOCIETY HAS MADE THE LAST 20 YEARS AND IT HAS INCREASED A LOT OF RACIAL ANIMUS IN OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE WE STARTED DOING THINGS LIKE DEI AND OTHERWISE THAT ACTIVELY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST WHITE MEN THAT ACTIVELY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE WHO ARE SUCCESSFUL LIKE ASIANS AND OTHERS AND THAT IS, IF ANYTHING, NOT ONLY HAS ATTACKED MERIT AND BROKEN A LOT OF THINGS, JUST TERRIBLE, LOTS OF THINGS IN OUR SOCIETY ARE BROKEN, YOU CAN SEE FROM THE FIRES IN L.A.

BUT A TERRIBLE POLICY, AS RECEIVED FROM ALL SORTS OF METHODS, IT HAS CREATED MORE RACISM INTO PROBLEMS FOR MORE PEOPLE.

I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO TREAT EVERYONE RIGHT AND WE NEED TO NOT SWING AWAY FROM HELPING PEOPLE BUT WE DO NOT NEED TO KEEP DOING THIS RACISM BECAUSE THAT BREAKS THINGS MORE.

>> SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS IN THE TECHNOLOGY WORLD, MOST ELON MUSK AND VIVEK RAMASWAMY AND OTHERS, ARE PART OF THIS GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, I GUESS.

AND, YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH ALL OF THESE PEOPLE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND WHAT IS THE GOAL?

>> YOU KNOW, OUR GOVERNMENT IS THE LEAST EFFICIENT PART OF OUR SOCIETY.

THERE ARE LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WASTED ON THINGS YOU CONSTANTLY SEE, WALTER.

TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR SOMETHING THAT NEVER HAPPENS WITH ELECTRIC CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE, HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR A TRAIN THAT PAYS MONEY TO LAWYERS BUT DOESN'T BUILD MUCH AT ALL.

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON.

THERE ARE SO MANY PARTS OF OUR SOCIETY WHERE THE COST IS GOING UP BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS INVOLVED AND IT IS CRUSHING THE MIDDLE CLASS, IT IS CRASHING THE WORKING CLASS AND IT IS UNNECESSARY.

WE DON'T NEED THIS WASTE.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS THEY ARE GOING TO GO IN AND THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND SAID WHAT PARTS OF THE BUREAUCRACY ARE ABLE TO BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN WHAT PARTS OF THE BUREAUCRACY HAVE NOT BEEN COMING TO WORK AT ALL FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS AND ARE GETTING A PAYCHECK WHILE WORKING ON THE SIDE, WHICH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND WHAT THINGS CAN BE CUT?

BY THE WAY, NONGOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS OR NONPROFITS THAT GET A LOT OF MONEY FROM OUR GOVERNMENT CALL A LOT OF THEM ARE RADICAL IDEOLOGUES, A LOT OF THEM ARE BEING PAID TO TEACH PEOPLE TO FAKE ASYLUM, THEY ARE BEING PAID TO CAUSE MESSES IN OUR CITIES, A LOT OF STUFF NEEDS TO BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE AND NEEDS TO BE TURNED OFF.

A LOT OF US ARE REALLY EXCITED TO GO IN THERE AND APPLY MERIT, APPLY LOGIC TO FIX A LOT OF THIS BROKEN STUFF.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO BE INVOLVED?

>> I HAVE A LOT OF MY REALLY GOOD FRIENDS INVOLVED IN LIGHT OF PAST THEM A BUNCH OF IDEAS AND I AM PUBLISHING A BUNCH OF IDEAS.

I'M GOING TO KEEP HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.

I HAVE A FULL-TIME JOB RUNNING THE VENTURE CAPITAL FIRM, BUILDING COMPANIES IN THE U.S. WE ARE STARTING A NEW UNIVERSITY HERE.

I'M QUITE BUSY.

I'M EXCITED TO BE UP IN REFERENCE BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT TO FIX AND AM PASSIONATE ABOUT MAKING GOVERNMENT WORK FOR EVERYONE.

>> THERE ARE GOING TO BE GREAT CUTS IN GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND ORDER THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT, IT PROBABLY IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME SOME FROM THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AND YOU WERE A COFOUNDER OF PALANTIR, WHICH IS TRYING TO FIND BOTH MACHINE LEARNING IN NEW WAYS TO DO WAR FIGHTING.

TELL ME HOW YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT, SHOULD WE GET RID OF THINGS LIKE THE F- 35s PLANE?

SHOULD WE HAVE A NEW VERSION OF WARFARE?

WILL THAT SAVE MONEY QUESTION >> DEFENSE IS A HUGE AREA THAT COULD BE A LOT MORE EFFICIENT, WALTER.

THERE COULD BE A BATTLE GOING ON IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE EVENT.

ALL THESE LEGACY COMPANIES MERGED TO FORM THE PRIMES, THE 90s IN THE COLD WAR AND PALANTIR AND SPACEX WERE THE FIRST TWO COMPANIES TO BECOME A NEW PRIMES SINCE THEN.

IT WAS DIFFICULT THE WAY THE LAWS WERE SET UP, YOU HAVE TO BE PERSISTENT.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE NEW ONES COMING UP TO COMPETE , JUST A REALLY COOL NEW TECHNOLOGY, FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN THE OLD PRIMES AND THERE IS A BATTLE BECAUSE THE OLD TIMES HAVE SET THINGS UP TO GET PAID COST- PLUS.

THEIR INCENTIVES HAVE BEEN TO MAKE THINGS 10 TIMES MORE EXTENSIVE THAN THEY NEED TO BE AND MAKE LOTS -- >> SHOULD IT WOULD'VE COST PLUS CONTRACT QUESTION >> THERE ARE VERY FEW.

WHERE IT MAKES SENSE.

THERE IS A SPECIFIC BODY LIKE AREAS WHERE IT MAY MAKE SENSE BUT FOR ANYTHING WITH SOFTWARE, COST-PLUS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AND IT IS MORE COMPETENT.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF OTHER AREAS.

BETWEEN YOU AND ME, THERE ARE PLACES THAT ARE GREAT FOR THE ECONOMY OF THE ALL GIRL AREAS THAT DON'T ADD TO OUR DEFENSE.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE COMMENTS THAT ARE A FORM OF WELFARE, CERTAIN PARTS OF MILITARY SPENDING ARE A FORM OF WELFARE.

THEY ARE NOT ABOUT TO REFINE OUR ENEMIES, THEY ARE ABOUT DOING THINGS TO HELP COMMUNITIES.

I THINK OPEN COMMUNITIES IS GREAT BUT IF WE HAVE TO CUT BACK, WE NEED TO BE REASONABLE.

WHICH PART OF DEFENSE IS SCARING OUR ENEMIES AND WHICH PART HAS ROOM TO CUT BECAUSE IT IS NOT DOING THE THINGS DEFENSE IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING?

THESE ARE TOUGH CONVERSATIONS WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE AT SOME POINT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS AND THAT IS THE REALLY BIG HUNK -- >> IT IS 3.8, 3.8 TRILLION OF THE 6.5 TRILLION IS THE ENTITLEMENTS.

>> CAN THAT BE CUT SIGNIFICANTLY WITHOUT HURTING PEOPLE?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S PROBABLY ABOUT $300 MILLION OF THE 3.8 TRILLION, 0.3 AND THAT IS PROBABLY FRAUD.

THERE'S A MASSIVE, MASSIVE AMOUNT OF SCHEMES ON MEDICARE AND MEDICAID, HUGE NUMBERS OF CHINESE ASPIRING'S CLEANING THINGS, MEXICAN CARTELS INVOLVED IN THIS AS WELL, ALSO THE PEOPLE ILLEGALLY GIVING MONEY FOR THINGS, PEOPLE WHO WERE FOUND TO BE DEAD FOR YEARS, THEIR KIDS ARE GETTING THE MONEY.

WE HAVE NOT APPLIED ANTI-FRAUD.

IN BUSINESS, WALTER, WHEN WE WERE AT PAYPAL, ALL SORTS OF OTHER COMPANIES IN SILICON VALLEY HAVE GOT REALLY GOOD AT UNDERSTANDING HOW FRAUD WORKS AND HOW CLEVER PEOPLE ARE TO STEAL MONEY.

THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T PLAYED ANYTHING.

10 YEARS AGO, I TALKED TO PRESIDENT OBAMA ABOUT THIS AND HE WANTED TO DO IT.

IT'S STUFF LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD LOOK BAD IF WE SPENT TIME SHOWING OFF HOW MUCH FRAUD THERE IS.

THE FRAUD HAS ONLY GROWN.

WE COULD DEFINITELY CUT A HUGE AMOUNT OF FRAUD IF THEY LET US AND I HOPE AND WITH THIS THING.

>> FRAUD EVEN AT BEST IS $300 BILLION AND YOU WILL CHIP AWAY AT IT.

IS THERE SOMETHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS THAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE CUT?

>> YOU KNOW, ON THE MARGIN, I THINK THERE ARE THINGS EVERYONE AGREES WITH.

I'M NOT SURE MILLIONAIRES SHOULD BE GETTING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

IF I WERE TO LOSE MY JOB, I WILL MAKE IT.

YOU DON'T NEED TO GIVE ME UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

RIGHT NOW, YOU WOULD.

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THAT COSTS US A LOT OF MONEY.

THERE ARE SOME MARGINAL THINGS LIKE THAT KIND TO ENTITLEMENTS THAT ARE EASY TO FIX.

IN TERMS OF BIGGER CUTS, THERE SO MANY OTHER AREAS RIGHT NOW WHERE I THINK WE COULD SAVE HALF $1 TRILLION-$1 TRILLION THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION, PRESIDENT HAS SAID HE'S GOING TO FOCUS ON AREAS OTHER THAN CORE ENTITLEMENTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO FOCUS ON.

OUR JOB IS TO FOLLOW THE PRESIDENT.

>> WHAT ABOUT TAKING OUT REGULATIONS?

LET'S TAKE HEALTH CARE, FOR EXAMPLE.

TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD YOU HAVE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT WITH DEREGULATION?

>> HEALTH CARE AND REGULATION IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE AREAS.

I AM GLAD YOU ASKED.

I THINK EVERYONE AGREES YOU WANT TO HAVE ENOUGH LEVELS TO PROTECT PEOPLE.

YOU DON'T WANT SOME KIND OF CRAZY WILD WEST HERE.

AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE REGULATORY STATE, WALTER, THESE THINGS AGGLOMERATE OVER TIME WHERE THERE ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF RULES.

YOU KNOW WHO LOBBIES FOR THE RULES IS THE GIANT COMPANIES, UNITED HEALTH CARE, THE HEALTH SYSTEMS WE DON'T WANT COMPETITION.

RIGHT NOW IN AMERICA, WE HAVE ALL SORTS OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES.

FOR TABLE, IF SOMEONE HAS DIABETES, THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANCE THEY COULD DIABETIC RETINOPATHY, WHICH MAKES THEM GO BLIND.

WE HAVE A COMPANY WITH A HIGH, PLUS A NURSE IN ANY RURAL AREA CAN CHECK THAT CAN STOP YOU FROM GOING BLIND.

THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF RULES THAT THE PEOPLE PAYING FOR IT BECAUSE IT IS A I, STOPPING IN FOR IT IF A DOCTOR IS NOT PRESENT.

THERE'S THAT TIMES 10,000 WEAR HEALTH CARE AND GETTING MUCH MORE EXCITED BECAUSE OF ALL THESE CAPTURED RULES AND ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THOSE.

I'M REALLY EXCITED FOR START TO OPEN IT UP, TO LET PEOPLE COMPETE WITH HEALTH SYSTEMS IN WAYS THEY DON'T WANT COMPETITION.

IF WE DON'T DO THAT, THE COST IS GOING TO GO UP.

THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR OUR COUNTRY.

>> PALANTIR HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF USING TECHNOLOGY AND MACHINE LEARNING FOR EVERYTHING FROM MILITARY USES, GOVERNMENT USES, INTELLIGENCE USES.

I WAS ALWAYS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT YOU NAME IT PALANTIR OUT OF "LORD OF THE RINGS ," WHICH IS A PROJECT IN STONE.

BUT, AS YOU REMEMBER FROM THE BOOK, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THAT CAN GO WRONG.

THE BAD GUYS CAN GET IT.

>> THAT IS THE WARNING BUILT IN.

PALANTIR WAS BUILT 2000 YEARS AGO BY THESE ELVES PARTNERING WITH THE GOOD HUMANS AND THEY CLEAN THE LAND OF BAD GUYS AND HAD A GOLDEN AGE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

WHAT HAPPENS IS EVENTUALLY A BAD GUY GETS IN CHARGE OF THE PALANTIR STONES AND THAT CAUSES VERY SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

THAT WAS EXPENSIVELY ONE OF THE RECENTLY BUILT PALANTIR.

IT WASN'T JUST TO STOP THE BAD GUYS, WE HELPED ELIMINATED THOUSANDS OF TERRORISTS AND PREVENT HUGE NUMBERS OF ATTACKS.

WHAT WE ARE ALSO TRYING TO DO IS BUILT INTO PALANTIR THE AUDIT TRAILS AND TREMORS TO PROTECT CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CREATE MEDICAL USES IT, PEOPLE CAN GO BACK AND SEE HOW IT WAS USED, THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP CAN WATCH THE WATCHERS.

THERE IS NO PERFECT SOLUTION FOR HUMANITY WITH POWER, WALTER.

IF YOU FIGURE IT OUT, LET ME KNOW.

BY TREATING POWER FOR THE GOOD GUYS AND TRYING TO MAKE IT WATCH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, TRYING TO LET EVERYONE KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE IS THE BEST WE CAN DO AND IT HAS DONE A LOT OF GOOD.

ALL OF US HAVE TO BE WARY OF THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT.

>> ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE FIRST TRUMPET TERM AND THIS UPCOMING TRUMPET IS THAT THIS TIME AROUND, THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF TECHNOLOGY INNOVATORS, PEOPLE LIKE YOUR FRIENDS AND EVEN YOURSELF, WHO ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN IT.

HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO MAKE THIS UPCOMING TERM DIFFERENT THAN THE FIRST TERM, AND WHAT GUARDRAILS SHOULD THERE BE AROUND ALL OF THESE IDEAS?

>> YOU KNOW, WALTER, IT IS FUNNY.

THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS OF SEEING THINGS IN THE TECHNOLOGY WORLD.

TO BE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OBNOXIOUS FOR A SECOND, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUILDING THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES FOR OUR GENERATION, THESE ARE THE MOST COURAGEOUS PEOPLE IN OUR GENERATION.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IN OUR GENERATION, THESE ARE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE TAKING RISKS, PUTTING THEMSELVES OUT THERE, IN SOME CASES FAILING AND FEELING BEFORE THEY SUCCEED.

AND, THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT AND HOPING THING TO HAPPEN IN LEADERSHIP.

WHEN YOU HAVE THINGS AS BROKEN AS THEY ARE IN OUR GOVERNMENT, TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS LIT ON FIRE, WHEN YOU HAVE MASSIVE FAILURES IN THE SECRET SERVICE, MASSIVE FAILURES IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FBI AND OTHERS WERE FOCUSING ON, WHEN YOU HAVE TERRORISTS LET INTO OUR BORDERS BECAUSE THINGS ARE RUN SO BADLY, YOU NEED BOLD PEOPLE, YOU NEED COMPETENT PEOPLE WILLING TO CHANGE THINGS AGGRESSIVELY.

THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO GO IN AND FIX AND CHANGE THINGS.

WE HAVE SOME GREAT LEADERS GOING IN WHO HAVE WON BIG COMPANIES, WHO DO KNOW HOW TO PUT BOUNDARIES IN PLACE, YOU KNOW HOW TO MAKE THINGS WORK AND I AM EXCITED TO SEE THEM THERE.

>> AS YOU KNOW, ELON MUSK TALKED ABOUT BEING A NATION OF RISKTAKERS AND WE HAVE TOO MANY REFEREES NOW AND NOT ENOUGH RISKTAKERS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW, HE FEELS YOU NEED SOME GUARDRAILS.

ARE THERE GOING TO BE ENOUGH GUARDRAILS IN THE SECOND TRUMPET TERM?

>> OF COURSE.

AMERICAN IS A GREAT MISSION BECAUSE OF ITS FRONTIER MINDSET, WALTER.

AMERICA HAS ALWAYS HAD A FRONTIER, WHETHER THE FRONTIER IS THE WEST, WHETHER THE FRONTIER IS SPACE.

THAT MINDSET OF BEING ABLE TO TRY THINGS AND DO THINGS TO FAIL IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

YOU ALWAYS HAVE A BALANCE BETWEEN ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND GUARDRAILS.

WHEN I FIRST DID ONE OF MY FIRST COMPANIES, AND ON THE WHOLE, AMERICANS FOR EXPRESS AT THE TIME WITH THE LEAD CEO AND THERE WERE 22 LAWYERS ON THE: I WAS BLOWN AWAY.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMETHING GETS TO BE TOO BIG.

YOU GET 22 LAWYERS.

IT IS COMICAL BUT IT IS HOW IT WORKS.

THERE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE ZERO LAWYERS.

THERE PROBABLY SHOULD BE A FEW OF THEM BUT YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT 22.

THERE'S WAY TOO MANY REFEREES.

IS THAT YOU GET RID OF EVERYTHING?.

MAYBE ELON MUSK AND I ARE 21.

I WOULDN'T TRUST ME AT 21 RUNNING A COUNTRY.

I WOULDN'T TRUST YOU EITHER AT 21.

IF YOU BUILT COMPANIES AND YOU RUN THEM AND YOU ARE OLDER AND HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS, IT IS A BALANCE.

YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME CHECKING THINGS, YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME STRONG ENTREPRENEURIAL ENERGY.

RIGHT NOW, OUR GOVERNMENT HAS LOST THE ENTREPRENEURIAL SIDE, IT IS THE TEAM OF THE THOUSANDS OF LAWYERS AND WE NEED TO BALANCE THAT OUT.

THIS IS A GREAT DIRECTION WE ARE GOING IN RIGHT NOW.

>> JOE LONSDALE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.