Good evening, everyone.

My name is Pero Dagbovie.

I'm University distinguished professor in the Department of History, associate Provost of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies and dean of the Graduate School here at MSU.

It's my great pleasure to be here with you all this evening to discuss this thought provoking and powerful documentary.

For those of you tuning in for the discussion we just viewed the 55 minute documentary The Cost of Inheritance.

The film is available to stream at pbs.org and wkar.org and in the Free PBS app.

So now it's my great pleasure to introduce our dynamic panel for tonight.

Willye White Bryan is founder of the Justice League of Greater Lansing, Michigan, and a retired classical biological control entomologist.

She began her entomological career in Stoneville, Mississippi, and ended it at Michigan State University in 2017.

Willye Co-edited the book Memoirs of Black Entomologist: Reflections on Childhood, University and Career Experiences in 2015 and 2021, Willye founded the Justice League of Greater Lansing, Michigan, a reparations project operating in the Greater Lansing area.

Prince- Jerold Solace currently serves as director of Congregational Life and Community Outreach at Lansing First Presbyterian Church.

His background is in professional communications and community development.

His career objective is to serve underprivileged communities by strategically connecting people to resources that promote financial awareness and wealth.

Equity.

Dr.Jerlando F.L.

Jackson is Dean of the Michigan State University of College Education, MSU Research Foundation, Professor of Education and Director and Chief research Scientist of the Organizational Disparities Laboratory.

Dean Jackson's research on hiring practices, career mobility, workforce diversity and workplace discrimination evolved into his cutting edge work on organizational disparities, with a particular focus on STEM.

And we have.

Reverend Dr.

Kit Carlson has been rector of All Saints Episcopal Church in East Lansing since 2007.

Her church has been a founding member of the Justice League of Greater Lansing and All Saints provided reparations funding to JLGL in the summer of 2023.

Dr. Carlson is a graduate of Virginia Theological Seminary and is the author of Speaking Our Faith: Equipping the Next Generations to Speak Their Faith Aloud.

She is past president of the Interfaith Clergy Association of Greater Lansing and of Action of Greater Lansing.

Welcome to everyone and welcome to our panelists.

And thank you again for joining us for this discussion.

As a bit of housekeeping, please don't forget to hand in any questions you have to Emily and Johnny throughout the discussion.

There's pieces of paper around the chairs and also pens that correspond with them.

So I want to start with with you, Willye, with a very general question.

We know that the reparations movement has been going on for a long time, since as early as the period of reconstruction.

So can you describe the efforts that have happened locally regarding reparations?

And what challenges do organizations like the Justice League throughout the nation face in leading reparations efforts?

And after you respond, we can pass it around to the rest of the panel members.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And and sure, I can I can talk about that.

The Justice League's model is a faith based model in establishing the Justice League.

We wanted to make sure that we were clear that reparations is a debt owed to African-Americans by this country.

And we also wanted to normalize the word reparations.

Well, what reparations are we wanted to have for not be afraid to talk about that, too, to normalize that conversation.

So our approach with the Justice League has been to partner with to go into predominantly White Houses of worship, to have the conversation, you know, that we know and you just seen this film, that churches were complicit in slavery.

And churches, you know, are really a great place to have this conversation because we can go into churches and we have done that.

The Justice League goes into churches and other houses of worship as well.

And we can talk about the sin of racism and we could talk about the sin of slavery.

So so we can go in and churches understand the language that we could we talk about repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation, and certainly reparations.

So we have followed the path of education, educating the houses of worship about where we are in this country as it surrounds reparations.

We we can talk about what we need to do.

We can explain the historical injustices that have led to this huge racial wealth gap that we experience.

And you saw that again in the film that talk about the racial wealth gap in in this community and certainly, you know, in this country.

And so our approach then with is to build relationships with these houses of worship and to say we have a plan that can right the wrong, that can repair the breach that is being experienced with this huge racial wealth gap.

The median household wealth in this country, for white people, it's about $150,000.

And then we pan over to what is what is it for black people?

We are talking about $4,000, $3,000.

And so the Justice League has developed a plan to address that to to talk about what generational wealth means, to talk about the fact that African Americans in this community and certainly in this country do not have generational wealth.

Now, generational wealth as we know it is when families have Akeem emulated wealth in their family structures.

Right.

And then they can pass that on to the next generation and the next generation.

And so forth.

For African-Americans in this country, you know, that's practically non existent.

You just it's just not there.

So we can't pass on wealth that is not available.

So that's been our goal.

I'll go has been to erase that, to bring some equity and repair to the community and and I tell you, I'm so excited to be here to tell you that the houses of worship, the predominantly white houses of worship that we have going in and and talked and giving the information to are responding.

We we are here, you know, very happily to say that, you know, 7 to 9 of the church churches and houses of worship, not just churches that we've gone into, have accepted the invitation to do the work and have made payments.

That's that's very exciting for me to say have made payments to the goals of the Justice League to reduce that racial wealth gap.

We have seven churches.

We have 3 to 4 additional churches who are in talks or in communication with justice committees and so forth and so on to talk about how they can come in so that we have an ongoing process that is making a difference.

And we're excited about that and happy to be here and love to talk to you some more about that when we get the opportunity.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I want to ask that question and anyone else who might want to chime in.

Just talk a little bit about any type of local activities and some challenges, perhaps anyone?

Sure.

I'll just kind of add to what Willye was sharing.

You know, when we go into the church and we do these presentations, I learn a little bit more about the history every time we do it.

Right.

And I feel like the legacy of slavery and its aftermath has been so shush.

Right?

Like, you don't talk about it in the open.

You don't talk about it and the impact that it has today.

And it's been such a blessing to serve underneath her leadership in this in this path of repairing the breach and to be able to talk about the legacy of slavery, its impact, the weight of it, looking back through history, the GI Bill, the Homestead Act, and seeing how that relates to modern day.

So being in the churches, it's been like a I like to, in my mind say it's like it's like the class of life, right?

Because we're educated and that's the core of what we do disseminate information.

And the churches that have been doing the work right throughout the years, having the discussions, talking about racial justice, social justice, are really stepping forward and seeing the Justice League as a catalyst to a more proactive approach.

And so that's been a blessing to see to witness in my lifetime, but then also to see people kind of go through this reflective phase of I'm learning this information, I have some resistance to it, but I really do want to be a part of the solution.

So we've seen churches come up with solutions and that is just a remarkable thing to to witness.

Did you want to chime in?

Yeah.

Our church did a lot of its own work in 2021, 22, and specifically looked a lot at what went on in this mid-Michigan area, because I think it's tempting in a white majority congregation to say similar to what Mitch McConnell said in the film, you know, what do we have to do with something that happened?

150 years ago?

But when you look at Jim Crow, the G.I., the failure of the G.I.

Bill, FHA, these these the Homestead Act things that the African-Americans just were not allowed to participate in, and that the wealth of people in my congregation largely came from those sources if they look back in their own family history.

And then we also studied East Lansing Zone history.

East Lansing was intransigent in opening up housing to people of color.

Yes.

And would not until forced to by the the Equal Housing Act of 1968.

So all the wealth of those of us who owned property in East Lansing came at a cost.

And so when the time came for we have a whole reparations plan at our church.

But one part was really to make a significant investment in the Justice League.

And when the time came to do that, we were selling a house that we owned next door to the church and I looked at the map of Lance, the redlined map of Lansing, where loans could be given, where loans could not be given.

And I looked at the value of what we were going to get for this little house in East Lansing.

And I found homes of same age, same size in the formerly redlined areas of Lansing are sold for about $240,000.

Those other houses that were pretty much exactly the same in South Lansing sold for 80.

And so it was a visible representation of our complicity in a system that is meant for us to be invisible to it.

No, indeed.

That's a great point.

Dr. Jackson, if you'd like to respond to that inquiry, you can.

But I have a specific question for you.

Given your field of expertise that we can use as a point of departure, in your estimation, what responsibility do land grant institutions and institutions of higher education in general have in advancing reparations in their various communities?

Thank you.

You know, land grant institutions were designed in ways to create opportunities that did not exist.

And in many ways, steel does don't exist for access as well as knowledge generation.

And because of the unique contribution of institutions in the way land grants work, conceptualize their unique relationships that have been established with communities and people that put institutions like Michigan State in a very good position to think carefully about access on many levels.

So there are about seven, several, several ways Id like to share First would be highlighting the historical understanding with like events like today as knowledge centers.

You know, we're obligated to sort of process difficult and tough information like this and do it in a caring space.

We also think about our work in ways where we support research and scholarship.

And so to shine light on the challenges that we've seen in this video from a historical standpoint, you've heard discussions about economic impact and that responsibility that we take on at the institution university level.

We also find within the DNA of our institution like this engagement in the community, it's very important, you know, how we can engage and be a part of communities is a is a very important aspect.

And then modeling inclusivity, we tend to talk about in general, but particularly here about our inclusive hiring practices, admission practices, and so uplifting and holding that we should model what we learn from past practices and challenges.

And then just a couple more.

Truth and reconciliation.

You know, at the beginning of this event, we had an acknowledgment, a land acknowledgment, you know, as a institution.

And fundamentally is supposed to be a beacon in shining light.

We should be comfortable to acknowledge when we were wrong or are wrong and be a part of the truth seeking process.

And if you can't find a safe space like that, to do that work in an institution of higher education, we're going to be hard pressed to create spaces like that.

And then lastly, just ensuring that we are creating and honoring the educational access by which land grant institutions were established.

And so if we can do those types of things institutionally, we can begin to be a part of reparation efforts that are done in a ways that universities can do and that take on a very different texture than some of the other efforts we've heard from different groups and associations.

So that's what I would share.

And thank you.

Thank you very much.

There's a question from the audience that's pertaining to history, which I think is important personally.

And part of the question talks about the film and its representation of past efforts.

The question is about why wasn't the Freedman's Bureau, for example, included in the film?

So I'll take this question, you know, and expand upon it and ask, How did you all view the film's representation of the past with maybe an example and its relationship to the present and why?

Looking at this notion of modern day reparations needs to be placed within a historical context.

Yeah, I would give it to Willye.

She does a good job of that.

Yeah, well, one thing that we have to remember is that reparations is not a new idea.

Reparations, you saw that in the film started very, very early, you know, early.

So we talked about four years ago.

Right.

The the having an approach that the Freedmen's Bureau and I'm not sure why wasn't mentioned but the Freedmen's Bureau had a large, large involvement, a large part in looking at equitable treatment and, and reparations, as it were, in terms of how the the first banks, you know, how the Freedmen bureau served as a reservoir banks for newly freed African-Americans in, you know, in the 18th 1850s and 1860s and seventies.

So that it's a huge role that the Freedmen bureau played in that in that era.

And it was oftentimes led by individuals who had movements.

Which brings me to that notion of the individual.

It seems like this film had a lot to do with individual reparations.

Well, would you mind offering some some insight perhaps on what types of things can individuals do in being involved in this movement and quote unquote, repairing the harm that's been done to various communities?

I was quite moved by the the white people in the documentary who took responsibility for researching their own family situations, their own economic situations.

And I think all of us can begin their ask where did my father get enough money to buy a house?

Where did his father get enough money to buy a house?

How far back does this story go?

We might not necessarily be descended from enslavers, but every white person in this country has benefited from the legacy of slavery.

And all of us have research.

We can do into that in our churches, research that we did into the history of race relations in the Lansing area, I think was really, really important for us to understand that there are systems out there that sweep us up and we are part of it and we participate in it and we are complicit in it and we have a responsibility to do something.

If I may add to that, I you know, Willye and I talk about this all the time.

Just the longevity of the Justice League.

Right.

And being beyond our years and its legacy and living on.

And, you know, I'm just reminded that the people in our community deserve to have that space to be able to talk about these types of, you know, issues.

Right.

So whether that's happening in the church, whether that's happening in smaller groups, I think that is a great start.

Right.

And we kind of discount that.

But having the conversation is the first step, I believe.

I think as individuals listening right.

Sounds like a very easy thing to do.

But listening to the narratives, there's so many stories that go into the legacy of slavery that are not covered and highlighted.

And we can spin you know, lots of time just sitting down with our family and friends and aunts and uncles and listening to the history of it all.

And that history deserves a space and that history has lives attached to it and and impact.

And so I think conversing about it, you know, that's bring it to life.

It's not dead.

It's it's it's a history that has kind of been secreted, if you will.

But in order for us to unlock what we need to unlock in each other and move forward and progress and reconcile and heal, we need to talk about it.

You know, talk one of the core principles in the work that I do on organizational disparities is social closure, where opportunities are being closed off and actively closed off.

And the reason we think of it in this way is most don't actively think of themselves as being discriminatory in their practices.

But in many cases, we can recognize and see where there's closed opportunities and we see those closed opportunities.

And only way that there's an opportunity to reverse those is to have individual and organizational ownership, that there are reasons that we consistently get the same disparate outcomes in organizations, whether it's in the state of Michigan or different place.

And so that calls us into individual action to ask ourselves, how can we think differently about the way we go about our lives as a part of organizations that matter to us, whether those organizations look like a university or these organizations look like your church, or it looks like any important space where membership and access is being granted or denied through some process, and that that process will dictate opportunities that can manifest to individuals or groups.

And so the self-reflection process that we have seen through this documentary that has allowed both of the kind of major actors in this to grow as individuals and to face very tough aspects about who they are in their paths to make a brighter future for others, which in this example tended to be in the format of students in paying back through very measurable and reasonable ways to make a difference in the lives of those that they were in touch with.

And I just want to appreciate that these are examples of each of us can carry out a special project as well.

Now, those are some great observations.

We do only have about five more minutes remaining, and so I'm going to take liberty to ask a closing question so each panelist can just take a few minutes to respond to a closing question.

That's part hybrid because I'm borrowing from a question from the audience as well.

And I think it's a great question.

This movement has been going on for a long time.

There have been various turning points.

There have been people who stand up and say what needs to be done in the future.

So we have this question that says, what are your thoughts on strategies that will ensure that there is some generational change for all the future generations to come, i.e.

so that this movement can continue and that people will have faith that it will be realized in different ways, just like the enslaved might not have ever thought that there would be the passage of the 13th Amendment, the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment and other amendments.

So what are your your thoughts about strategies to ensure that this continues this dialog and maybe a minute or so?

You know, I want to say quickly that I am seeing the involvement of individuals who are volunteering.

And though, you know, white people who have come to the Justice League to say, you know, we really want to make a difference.

And I think that that is a response to that question, is that that's how you make a difference.

That's how when the next generation can see that someone tried that we didn't sit on our hands.

We didn't just say, ain't it awful.

We stood up and we did something.

And I see more and more every time we do a presentation, someone invariably will come and say, I'd like to be involved in this.

I'd like to help.

So your generations, your descendants, rather, will be able to to to take advantage of that, to be able to say, you know, my mother was involved in this or my grandmother, I would like to carry on as well.

Real quick, we've got about two more minutes.

Anyone want to add 30 seconds or 40 seconds comment?

Sure.

I'll just add, you know, as president of the Justice League, it's always in my mind to attract innovative thinkers.

But more than just being smart or witty, you have to have a big heart and be consistent to do this type of work.

But I don't think and we don't think in a limited bubble.

So in addition to being in the churches, we've done presentations with community partners, with the Mandela fellows here at MSU and so on and so forth.

So we're constantly thinking outside the box as to how we're paying.

The bridge can navigate its way to other areas, including persons from the secular community as well.

The micro personal reparation effort is a take away from me from this documentary as a potentially effective strategy that we could proliferate.

Thank you.

Last, tell the story to your children and your grandchildren.

And tell it and tell it and tell it.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

Well, unfortunately, that's all the time that we have for this evening.

And I thank our panelists once again.

And thank you all for joining us.

For the cost of inheritance presented by the Martin Luther King Junior Commemorative Celebration Planning Committee, the Michigan State University Libraries, the Justice League of Greater Lansing, Michigan, and, of course, WKAR.

As we all know, events like this from WKAR are made possible with support from people like you.

Thank you to all those who donate to WKAR.

Good evening.

Thank you very much for joining us again