Tonight.

Part two of first degree murder trial.

The case for the prosecution.

Arnold Botello was stabbed to death on a Thanksgiving night with a turkey carving knife.

Arrested for his murder was Robert Sandoval.

In this program, you will see the American system of justice at work.

This is the actual first degree murder trial of Robert Sandoval.

Robert Sandoval, Arnold Botello and others spent Thanksgiving in this house eating, drinking and fighting.

Near midnight, Sandoval stabbed Botello .

Sandoval says it was self defens Seemed like they were coming at me in my opinion They were.On the table, there was a knife.

I picked up the knife.

And I started towards the door.

Next thing I know, Arnolds on the floor.

I did stab him & had a bloody knife in my hand.

Botellos family does not believe it was self-defense.

I hope he gets what he deserves.

It should be it had whatever the law goes by.

Life imprisonment.

Life in prison or else it's death penalty, you know?

The prosecutor does not believe it was self-defense.

There was chaos that day.

He goes home after telling some of them he would blow them away.

I think were his words.

And whether we had a shotgun or not, we don't know.

But we know he came back with the chainsaw.

And that to me is not self-defense.

At that point he becomes the aggressor and whatever the other people did was wrong.

But it doesn't give him an excuse to come back to the chainsaw to do heaven knows what.

When it doesnt start, he goes and he gets a foot long knife and stabs Arnold Botello.

The defense attorney believes that it might have been self-defense, and the defense has the advantage that the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

I don't think they can disprove self defense.

I think there is enough there that you have to believe self defense was the actual case And again, I don't have to prove self defense.

They have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense In order to prove that Sandoval's crime is first degree murder, the prosecutor must prove that Sandoval killed Botello intentionally.

And after deliberation.

Thanksgiving Day was a time of heavy drinking and fighting between Sandoval and the others present.

The prosecutor makes his opening arguments to the jury.

At some point in time between approximately 10:00 and 11:00 at night, shots were fired into Mr.

Sandovals van.

and I think the evidence is pretty clear that those shots came from a rifle which was present in the home of Hudgens.So, Mr.

Sandoval upon seeing his van and seeing bullet holes in it, is understandably quite angry, he confronts John McClane on the porch of the house.

Everybody inside the house denies firing shots into his van Sandoval, indicates to Mclane All right, Im gonna go get a shotgun and blow you all away.And leaves this is where, ladies and gentlemen, the evidence of deliberation will be shown.

Because Mr.

Sandoval does not go home & call police, forget about it He goes back to 36 E 4th Ave.

When he goes back there laidies & gentleman he has a chainsaw.

It's this McCulloch chainsaw that you see over here.

Sandoval, comes up the street, over the curb, over the sidewalk in his van.

Gets out of his van in such a hurry that he even leaves the van door open.

He runs up onto the porch.

Hudgen hears a noise which he characterizes or likened to a lawn mower being started.

What is happening is Mr.

Sandoval is trying to start this chainsaw, but the chainsaw doesn't start.

He throws the chainsaw, then back out onto the grassy area and it ends up underneath his van.

Sandoval rushes inside to the kitchen where was kept the carving knife that had been used that day on the thanksgiving turkey.

About a foot long knife.

Sandoval rushes out and stabs Mr.

Botello with that carving knife.

Officer Gasman & his partner, Bob Sylvas were first to arrive, Mr.

Botello was unconscious on the porch Mr.

Hudgons & Mr.

Sandoval are standing in the doorway or the porch area right around the doorway, and the police ask both of them what happend.

Sandoval says I stabbed him.

As I indicated, members of the jury the, charge in this case is 1st degree murder.

It is the most serious form of homicide in the state of Colorado.

It requires an element of deliberation.

If the evidence in the case, should suggest other forms of homicide at an appropriate time.

you will be instructed on those matters as well.

Ladies and gentlemen, please strike from the record the statement concerning any lesser forms of homicide and please don't consider that for any reason.

confident conclusion of the case and all of the evidence, when you are called upon to make your deliberations in these matters members of the jury, we will have proven beyond a reasonable doubt to you elements of 1st degree murder.

Thank you for your attention.

Members of the jury Im sure youve gleaned by now this is not a who dunnit.

There's no question that Mr.

Botello died from a knife injury from a knife that was being held by Mr.

Sandoval.

So the issue in this case for you to decide is What was Mr.

Sandoval thinking at the time this happened?

Prosecutor has giving you an outline.

And if the facts bring out you believe, as he said, they would come out and certainly would be justified in coming back with the verdict of murder.

However, the facts are not going to come out as cleanly and as neatly as he has indicated to you.

I ask you to pay attention to the credibility of the witnesses in this case, because that's what it's all going to turn on.

I'm confident at the end of this case, you will find Mr.

Sandoval is not guilty of first degree murder.

Now, the prosecution begins presenting the evidence to support the charge of first degree murder.

Call your first witnesscc Thank you Your honor, we call Steve Antuna Swear the testimony you give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

The homicide detective describes what he found when he arrived at the scene of the stabbing on Thanksgiving night.

There was a 1974 red van parked in front of the address.

36 East Fourth Avenue was parked in the sidewalk area between the sidewalk and the street.

Can members the jury see that?

I think its appropriate to direct comments to the court to ask the jury Please take the red magic marker detective & draw for us approximately where you saw that van.

Driver door was open.

Underneath there was a Mculloch chainsaw visible on the patio area here.

With a large pool of blood Also contained within the blood was a broken Budweiser beer bottle.

Seargant located in the street 25 live 22 caliber Remington long rifle rounds.

Did you notice anything unusual about the van itself?

On this side of the van, appeared to be three gunshot holes.

Can you identify that,Sir?

That is the chainsaw that was recovered.

Thank you.

Go ahead and describe your findings were concerning the interior of the apartment.

There was a carving knife, plastic handle.

Approximately here was a 22 caliber Remington shell casing.

Spent shell casing There was a log.

We moved to the kitchen.

There was a casing This area next to the fridge is another casing.

On top of the refrigerator, a live round.

Trash can filled with empty Budweiser cans and bottles.

They also recovered on the floor in this area is an empty Vodka bottle.

In this corner of the closet in the bedroom I recovered a rifle.

Let me show you what we have marked as people's Exhibit D. Can you check that first to see if it's loaded, Sir?

It's not.

It's not loaded.

This rifle was recovered from the bedroom closet.

Can you identify that, Sir ?

Okay.

This is the carving knife that was recovered.

The total length is one foot and one inch.

When you searched the interior of the van, did you find any accessories, carriyng case anything like that that would accompany the chainsaw ?

No, I did not.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now the defense will cross examine the homicide detective.

Detective, you have testified earlier as to some blood found on the porch.

And also it appears on the screen door.

Was there any blood found anywhere else on the premises?

No, sir.

Were there a lot of tools in the van?

Yes, sir.

That's correct.

Thank you detective.

The prosecutor now calls one of the most important witnesses in the case.

The police officer who arrived first at the scene and talked with Sandoval immediately after the sta bbing.

I saw two people standing in front door of the apartment.

And as we approached, the bottom, staff officer asked what happened, in which one party replied, I stabbed him.

So the person who made the statement is Mr.

Sandoval the defendant?

Yes.

Beside the two parties, the two parties we saw standing there, there was a third party lying in a prone position on the front porch, partially in the doorway.

Did you notice at this time or during the events of the evening, when Mr.

Sandoval was your presence whether or not he appeared to be injured in any way?

He did have blood on his hands and his shirt, but I couldn't see.

And I put my flashlights and I couldn't see any cuts or abrasions or anything I asked him what happened, and he said he'd been over at the 44 club, and he had left the bar and was walking back toward the van, and someone he didn't know who had fired three shots in the van.

He stated he entered the van made a U-turn and drove up up on the portion where the van was parked at, and he took a chainsaw from in the van and went up to the apartment.

He believed that the shots and came from the apartment, and he went in and with the chainsaw and couldnt get it started.

I asked him what he was doing with the chainsaw, and he said he planned to cut him up in the apartment, and he said he couldn't get it started.

So he got mad and threw it back outside, he said he then went into the kitchen and got a knife from the kitchen and he went back and stabbed the victim.

I have no further questions.

Mr.

Gasman Didnt you review some documents Yes, sir.

Is it fair to say that the reason you do that is because you have a lot of cases & theres alot a lot of facts to remember.Yes So you are taking notes when you're talking to Mr.

Sandoval?

Yes Sir.

And you you knew that you were going to use those notes to write a report.

Yes, sir.

I want to talk about some things you left out but first of all, let me ask a few other questions?

True, isnt it there was a great deal of blood on the porch when you first got there?

Yes.

Upon approaching Mr.

Sandoval, officer Sylvas asks what happened here and without any hesitation Mr.

Sandoval said, I stabbed hi Is that right?

Yes, sir.

Would you say he was cooperative Yes, sir.

And using your hand written notes that you'd taken during a conversation with Mr.

Sandoval, you prepared a two page Interdepartment correspondence report.

Isn't that correct?

Yes, Sir.

Just within a couple of hours of when you had the conversation.

Isn't that right?

Yes, sir.

And then you destroyed your notes?

I threw ‘em away, put em to one side & lost ‘em I don't usually keep ‘em once I put them in that.

Because as far as you're concerned, this is sort of the final version of what happened.

That gives the detectives indication of what occurred that night.

You testified today that Mr.

Sandoval told you that he went back in the van and got a chainsaw?

Yes, sir.

In the report that you wrote from your note within an hour after it happened, you didn't mention the chainsaw at all?

No, sir.

And the first time you testified to that chainsaw was a hearing on January 21st in this case.

And at that time, you told me that you remembered it on your way home on November 26th.

And you knew youd remember when you got to court.

but you didn't file a second report for your supervisor or for the district attorney or for me.

No, Sir.

I didn't.

And you testify today that Mr.

Sandoval said he was going to go into that apartment and cut him up with a chainsaw.

Yes, sir.

So again, you report on Nov 26th.

that you did within an hour There is no mention at all in that report about the statement I'm going to go in and cut him up.

No, sir.

The first time you mentioned it, in fact, was the hearing we had on May 20th, in this courtroom.

And at that time I asked you, why didn't you mention that?

You said I wasn't asked.

right?

Yes, Sir.

Well, do you remember me asking you this question.

Can you give us the exact conversation or close to it as possible?

And in that answer you didn't say anything about going in there to cut him up.

Did you?

No.

No further question What I'd like to do, is indicate now what he did include, in that answer & the question asked by council Can you give us the exact conversation or close to it as possible?

And was this your answer?

I asked him what took place, and he stated that he was walking back from the 44 Club and someone took some shots at him & his van & stated that being quite angry he got in his van and drove it up to the front of the apartment complex and exited the van and went inside the place with a chainsaw and he couldn't get it started so he threw it back outside through the open door and went into the kitchen Picked up a knife & approched the victim & stabbed him.

Your testimony your complete testimony in response to that question on January 21st?

Yes, sir.

That does not include any reference to Mr.

Sandoval saying, I'm going to cut them up.

No, sir.

And your testimony at that hearing on January 21st about the chainsaw that was not included in the written report.

done within hours of the inciden No, sir.

No further questions.

The prosecutor will use his lunch hour to prepare a key witness to testify later in the day.

Glen Hudgins was one of the eyewitnesses to the stabbing Hes probably gonna ask about when you & Bobby lived Ft.

Worth Tulsa Apartments and things which they are saying are reasons why Sandoval would be scared of you .

Okay.

Okay.

Did you tell them that you were a boxer?

No.

You consider yourself a boxer?

Im pretty good.

Obviously, during that day, everybody was drinking.

I think itsimportant to be candid about how much you had but you know what you saw.

Well, that's, at the time I know what I saw An important thing for you, keep in mind you did this well at the preliminary hearing, it's important for any witness in trial is just to be objective and not to get angry.

Not to get smart or anything.

I don't know how he will approach you.

He may try to provoke you.

He gives me that impression Because obviously it is part of their theory of defense.

That youre agressive, a fighter And if he can bring that out of you,what he thinks, they're going to be doing so much the better Just tell the truth and we can live with that.

Arnold was standing up to put a log on fire Arnold staggered and he said help me and out the door we went.

He dropped the log here.

He went out & fell where the police found him.

He didnt have a log in his hand.

That log could be an earlier one then the one we were shooting at When you were shooting earlier in the day, you were shooting some in the basement, you were shooting up here too?

and into the fireplace and into.. I know, seems a bit crazy.

Tell me about it.

Any questions for me?

Okay, okay.

So thank you.

Thanks.

If Mr.

Sandoval testifies do you forsee wanting one of these, I just ran out of them.

the diagram things inside I dont think so.

Cant even trick anybody anymore The prosecution called the paramedic who treated Botello.

We got there approximately the same time that police did, after the police made sure everything was okay we went in and looked at the person and then and there was a small amount of blood and a broken bottle too.

So, we rolled him over and found stab wound in his abdomen.

He respiration was almost diminished to nothing his skin was cool & clammy.

He wasn't breathing on his own.

Nor was he concious.

Also the location of the wounds in the abdomen is a bad wound.

Did he ever regain consciousness?

No.

He didn't.

This witness lives near the scene of the stabbing.

The prosecution is trying to fix the time of the events.

In order to show that Sandoval had enough time to plan the stabbing.

She testified that she heard three sounds like firecrackers.

About 10 or 1030.

Then she saw a man with dark hair and a light shirt walk toward Hudgins house.

About an hour and a half later, she saw police surrounding the house.

Please call your next witness.

Do you consider yourself to be a friend of the defendent?

Yes.

Gail Myers went to the Thanksgiving Day party with Sandoval.

She testified that she is a friend of Sandoval's girlfriend.

That they all three lived in the same apartment building, and that he had a garage in another location where he kept tools for his work.

The prosecution wants to support its case for first degree murder by showing that the first time Sandoval left the house, he had to go to another location for the chainsaw that would support the argument of deliberation.

The defense wants to show that the chainsaw was in the van all along.

Do you recall whether you saw anything such as this?

Its marked as exhibit C No, I dont.

How many people were at this party?

6 or 7.

Do you know, whether there was a gun in the house?

There was.

How do you know that?

We went to the basement, where they were going to target shoot.

How was the defendant acting?

Fights did break out.

Believe between Crow & Bob Glen Hodgins Nickname.

Do you know who started it?

No.

I had quite a few drinks in me and its real fuzzy.

how was the defendent acting with other people?

Fighting with anybody else?

The witness testified there were fights.

The D.A.

is only talking about a fight.I think we need to be more specific Please rephrase.

Start with the fight with crow.

Do you know how it got started?.

Bob was giving Crow a hard time.

He was just teasing him.

You know, about the meal.

But he took the time to get out and cook it.

What was Botello doing at that time?

He was pretty quiet the whole evening.

Did you ever see him engaged in the fight?

No.

What happened then?

We listened to music.

We had another drink Somebody started a fight.

I believe it was Crow, but I'm not sure.

With who?

I believe with Bob.

Bob was sitting next to me.

he stood up I remembered people being pushed around the coffee table that was in front of me.

It was almost in my lap at that point.

That's about the time I left.

Too rowdy for me.

And did the defendant appear to be intoxicated?

Somewhat, yes.

What about Crow?

Yes.

Now, do you recall weather it was the defendant who initiated the first fight?

Yes he did.

Did you ever see the defendant again that night?

He came to my place that evening about 10:30.

I was in my apartment.

I didn't answer my door.

I didn't know who it was.

After I heard the door close the outside door, I looked out my window and saw Bob getting into his van How was he acting?

He looked upset.

No other questions at this time.

Miss Myers, as I understand it, you went over to this party at Sharons request is that, right?

Yes.

Asked you to go accompany Bob So not like going out with your girlfriend or anything?

No.

And on Thanksgiving when you rode over to this party in his van.. Let me hand you 2 photographs & ask you if you recognize these Its the inside of his van.

Ok, that shows a lot of tools in the back?

Correct.

Did you look through the van in great detail on Thanksgiving?

Had you ever looked through it in great detail before?

No.

On Thanksgiving, When you went over there did you ride in the back of the van or up in the passenger seat?

the back of the van or up in the passenger seat?

Passenger seat.

If the chainsaw was in the back underneath something you wouldn't know it, would you?

No.

So, you can't say for a fact that a chainsaw was not in van?

Right Youve indicated that Mr.

Sandoval was giving Mr.

Hudgens a hard time & you used the word, teasing him, egging him on was it the kind of thing that you were afraid for your own safety?

No.

Was is just sort of a couple of guys of knocking around?

Yes.

Boys will be boys kind of activity?

Yes.

When Mr.

Sandoval came by your house later, about 1030 or so, & that time isnt exact is it?

M.A.S.H was coming on, it was about 10:35.

I believe that when he came up he knock on your door a couple of times & he knocked lightly on the door didnt he?

Yes.

He wasn't pounding on it anything?

Right.

Wasnt calling out to you?

No.

So from his knock on the door, did he appear upset at the time?

No.

And when he got back into his van, is it true that it appeared he was having some difficulty with the van.

Well, I noticed that he was upset.

and was shifting the gears hard No mechanical failure if thats waht you mean.

The prosecution now calls.

Glen Hudgens.

Roomate of the victim & person who invited Sandoval to the Thanksgiving party and eyewitness to the stabbing.

Hudgins testifies that he has known Sandoval for a couple of years.

Once rented an apartment in a building Sandoval managed, worked for Sandoval and was his friend.

Did there come a time when you got evicted from your your apartment?

Yes.

What role if any did Mr.

Sandoval play in that?

Gave me the notice.

After the time you got evicted, did you continue to see Mr.

Sandoval all on either a work or a social basis?

Right.

Yes.

Do you know, whether or not, during the summer and fall of 1982, if Mr.

Sandoval had another location, a garage Where he kept his working tools?

Yes.Let me Direct your attention to Thanksgiving Day.

Did you have some people over to your house for Thanksgiving dinner?

Yes.

Was everyone drinking?

Yes.

That day prior to dinner being served.

Anyone smoking any marijuana?

No.

Marijuana & very little hash.

Was it shared among the 6 or 7 people that were there?

Yes.

Did difficulty arise?

Yeah.

Me & Bobby got in an argument.

Was it an argument or was it a fist fight?

Wrestling fight.

I'm not really sure.

You know.

Didnt amount to nothin.

Well, let me show you an item we previously marked & admitted in evidence exhibit D weve already determined, this is unloaded.

Are you familiar with that?

Its mine.

Did you have that in your home on the 25th of November last year?

Yes.

And what were you doing with it?

Shooting.

Who was shooting it?

I think everybody was.We were shooting logs in the fireplace and down the basement shooting.

We had a log set up by the door.

You ever take the gun outside and shoot it?

I guess out on the porch.

What were you shooting out there Street.

Posts & steetlights.

You said you were shooting a log That was in the house.

Any logs in the doorway?

Yeah, there was 1.

Hudgens testifies everyone at the party was intoxicated.

He, Sandoval, Botello and the others went to the bar where more arguments broke out.

It pretty busy that night?

Yes.

compared to other business days, how was business on Thanksgiving Where in the bar did you go & what did you do?

Any 5th parties join you in the time you were there?

Bobby had $20 on the table, somebody took it and he accused everybody.

He was pretty mad.

We went outside.

We didn't fight then.

Did you go back into the bar?

Yes, I stayed a little while later,then me & Arnold left.

Did you go directly home?

Yes.

At any point in time that evening, Mr.

Hudgens, did you take the rifle exhibit B and fire shots into Mr Sandoval's van?

No.

Was there a time later that evening when you were aware that Mr.

Sandoval had returned?

Yes.He dorve his van on the sidewalk in front of my hous What do you recall happening after that?

Bobby coming in with a chainsaw trying to start it.

He was Yelling at us about who shot holes in his van and Wouldnt start, he threw it outside & went in the kitchen.

Let me ask you Mr.

Hudgens if you would to step down to the diagram.

I was sitting right here.

Where was Mr.Botello?

He was sitting right here.

John was here.

Where was the rifle at this time in the bedroom closet.When Bob walked into the kitchen,what was he saying?

If you recall He was cussing quite a bit and saying who shot his van.

He was angry?

Yes.

Can you show us the route he took when he came out of the kitchen?

you indicated a line coming out of the kitchen, going towards the doorway and then turning to the right towards the fireplace, correct?

Yes.Now, when Mr.

Sandoval made that motion or movement did you get up or Mr.

Mclane get up?

No.

Either one of you have any kind of weapons or anything of that nature in your hands.

No.

Where was Mr.

Botello when Mr.

Sandoval made this most recent travel?

He's still sitting here.

What happened then?

I asked him to put a log on the fire.

He got up & put a log on.

Thats when he got stabbed.

Where was he stabbed?

In the stomach.

Once or more than once?

1 time.

Did Sandoval say anything to Botello when he stabbed him?

Not that I recall.

Botello was standing up?

Yes.

Did he have anything in HIS hand?

Nothing.

Prior to that stabbing, had you witnessed anything that occurred between Mr.

Sandoval & Mr.

Botello any kind of difficulty arguing, fighting, anything?

No.

At the moment of the stabbing were you still seated in the chair there?

Yes.

McLane, if you know, was still on the couch.

Yes.

What, if anything, did Botello y say, after he was stabbed?

He said, whyd you do that Bobby The he kind of went back down about here, got to the door & said, help me Crow.

And that's when I grabbed him.

Did you get up from your chair?

Yes, I got up.

Went to Mr.

Botello?

Yes do you know what Mr Sandoval did as you were doing that?

No.

Did you give any orders to anybody else that was there?

I told John to call an ambulance Did you have a phone in your house at that time?

No.

You may resume your seat Mr.

Hudgens Mr.Sandoval stayed there until the ppolice arrived?.Yes.

Did you have to do anything in order to make him stay?

No.

How long was it from when you sent Mr.

McLain to call the police until they arrived?

Minutes I mean, it was less than 5 minutes.

Thank you very much.

No further questions.

Mr.

Hudgens is it true that you've got a felony conviction out of Los Angeles County, California, in 1969 for possession of heroin?

Thats true.

Youre about 5 10” and about 150LBS.

511”, 135LBS.

Mr.

McLane is about your height 510”, 511”?

Yes.

He weighs a little more yes?

Yes About 180.

Pretty good sized guy.

Yeah You mentioned briefly in direct examination that you the same for the police.

Is it correct that when you were taken to the station, Mr.

Hudgens, initially you were advised of your rights as a possible suspect?

Yes, but I was never arrested.

But at that time, officers asked you if you would tell them what had happened that day, didn't they?

Yes.

Be fair to say that at the time things were pretty fresh in your mind?

Yes.

Didn't the police say, I'd like you to write down the best you can Mr.

Hudgens everything you can remember about what occurred.

Yes.

At that time, you didn't tell him or her that they had left out any information, did you?

No.

And later the next day, you didn't go back down and say, hey, I didn't write everything down in the statement & I meant to tell you did you?

No.Let's go back to that morning you fixed a nice dinner for your friends that day didn't you?

Yes.

Cooked a turkey with all the trimmings?

Yes.

And you've got somewhat of a small apartment, you agree?

No.

But with seven people, you didn't have a lot of room to sit in a dining room area did you?

Yes.

Where were people sitting.

Front room on couches.

So, you don't have a formal dining room table do you?

Yes.

Well, is that indicated on the diagram here?

Peoples exhibit A as the table with plants?

Yes.

So for Thanksgiving you took the plants off?

Yes.

And you put the turkey over there?

Right.

And that's where you carved it?

Well, we moved the table out more into the center of the room You didnt clean up your house before you went over to the bar did you No.

You indicated that everybody was pretty well loaded by the time you went to the bar.

Isn't that right?

Yes.

A lot of music was going on.

Yes.

And you were shooting a gun out the door at streetlights?

Yes.

One of the people that was there was Mr.

Colton Ray is that his name?

Yes.

And I believe he and Mr.

Mclane.

got into a fight that evening?

As far as I know.

In fact Cole had a cut on his face and looked like hed been in fight didnt he?

Yes.

And again, this is just Mr.

Mclane having a good time on Thanksgiving evening, kind of knocking around and one of his buddies.

Is that Right?

I don't know if they were buddies.

Jump ahead & talk about the stabbing itself You indicated that Mr.

Botello was by the fireplace?

Yes.

And his back was to the door.

correct?

The front door?

Yes?

I wasn't quite sure from your testimony, was he putting a log in the fire when he was stabbed.He had just standed up.

Hed just stand up.

So, he didn't have a log in his hand?

No.

Im gonna hand you what has been admitted as peoples exhibit F6 and ask if you recognize what that depicts.

That's my front room.

That's how it looked on Thanksgiving?

Yeah.

Theres a big log there by the front door.

Yes.

your testimony on direct was tha you were shooting at that log?

I think we were.

At what point Earlier, before we went to 404 That's right in front of the front door?

Yes So you to continue to walk around it and walk over it when you went in and out of the door?

Basically.

It may not have been there.

Mightve been closer to where the speakers are.

How it got there,I dont know.

Did it get up & walk over there?

I don't know.

But today, when you were asked by the prosecutor if you shot the holes in Mr.

Sandovalse Van, you said no.

Right.

Youre saying that again?

That you did not shoot his van?

Lets put it this way, I didn't intentionally shoot at his van.

I didn't.

I don't think anybody there intentionally shot his van during that day.

But you were shooting out the door at some point during the day?

Yes.

Shooting streetlights?

Yes.

So it was a possible that the shots might have ricocheted down to Mr.

Sandovals van?

Yes.

Mr.

Hudgens, Im handing you whats been admitted as peoples exhibit F21.

Do you recognize that?

Yes.

Thats Bobbys van.

Those show the bullet holes in the van dont they?

Yes Would you say that those holes are in a circle about oh, maybe no more than 5 or 6 inches across?

Yes.

Pretty close together arent they?

Yes.

That's a pretty good ricochet isnt it?

Yes.

And if it's possible at all that this is because of ricochets, that would have happened earlier in the day before you went to the bar?

Yes.

Because I believe you indicated before that when you went to the bar the gun was jammed.

Right?

Yes.

And couldnt fire the gun when you went to the bar Right?

Right.

In your written statement to the police I guess you gave them a rough idea of what had happened.. You didn't say anything about shooting a gun during the day?

No.

Because you thought that they wouldn't want to know about that.

It just didn't come up.

Well, let's talk about the eviction from Tulsa Fort Worth Apartments Ok.

You weren't mad at Mr.

Sandoval for evicting you?

For what?

Well, remember getting kind of drunk that day getting real upset with Sandoval & threatening to kill him?

No.

Are you a pretty mellow guy when you get drunk, Mr.

Hudgens?

No.

You like to fight when you get drunk dont you?

Yes.

And you get kind of violent dont you?

I would say.

Well, now is it a fact Mr.

Hudgens, that after you were given a notice of eviction but before you got evicted, you had a big loud party and the police came.

And in fact, you got charged with resisting arrest?

Yes.

& you fought the police officers didnt you?

No.

But they charged you with resisting?

Yes.

You used to brag a lot Sandoval too & other people about being a fighter?

No.About being a boxing champion?

No You never told people that?

No.

Just like you didn't shoot the van?

As far as I know.

I didnt shoot it.. Isnt it a fact Mr.

Hudgens that one reason you went to the bar was because you were giving Mr.

Sandoval kind of a hard time about not bringing booze over or food to the house?

No.

Not true.

Is it a fact, Mr.

Hudgens, it turned into a shout match inside the bar I don't recall.

Could you stand up?

Can I approach the witness?

Step down Mr.

Hudgens.

I'm a little taller than Mr.

Sandoval?

Remember at the bar being this close to him and kind of yelling at him in his face?

No.

You don't remember that?

You don't remember Mr.

Mclane doing that?

No.

You don't recall Mr.

Mclane... Objection.

This is a demonstration of heights, fine but I dont think it's proper to examine a witness from six inches in front of his nose.

That's where the confrontation was going on in the bar.

Were not in a bar now.

You may stand next to him.

And then you may go back to the podium and ask questions.

So your testimony is that you weren't in Mr.

Sandovals face calling him a dirty spic?

We might have been arguing in the bar and we went outside but never fought.

And the issue was dropped as far as the $20.

Im not saying you fought in the bar, Im saying you were nose to nose & your were cursing at him.

I don't remember cursing at him.

You don't remember pushing him around a little bit?

No.

That didn't happen?

No.

You challenged him to fight outside.

You've testified to that.

Yes.

Mr.Botello & Mr.

Mclane also came outside?

Yes.

Kind of made it 3 to 1?

No.

Sandoval wouldnt fight you?

Bobbyd fight me in a heartbeat.

He didn't fight outside the bar.

No.

That made you mad.

Didn't it?

No.

You were pissed off when you left that bar?

No.

As far as you were concerned Mr.

Sandoval was still your drinking buddy?

Right.

And during this period of time, after you got back from the bar nobody in that apartment shot at his van?

Correct.

At some point in time Mr.

Mclane came in and told you that he had had some kind of a contact with Mr.

Sandoval outside.

Yes.

Remember testifying at the hearing in this case, back on January 21st?

Remember saying, quote I don't know, but, you know, the last I seen him was at the bar.

And from what I understand, when he left he said he was going to get us & that “Ill be back to to get you guys”.

That's what John told me.

But you weren't worried about it?

No.

You just kept partying.

Right.

The next thing you hear is a chainsaw trying to be started out on the porch right?

I heard the van drive up on the sidewalk.

That didn't cause you concern?

Not really.

You didn't pay any attention to this noise heard on the porch, did you?

No.

And your testimony is that Mr.

Sandoval carried the chainsaw into the apartment?

Yes.

And then he threw it out the door.

Yes.

then walked back into the back of the house.

At that point in time, all you thought was going on was he's going back to get a beer or go to the bathroom?

Yeah.

Right?

Didn't think he was doing nothin So all you know is you're sitting there, having a good time, having a few beers.

I remeber saying, I didn't shoot your van, Bobby.

I don't know who shot it.

He was arguing about the van.

Who shot his van.

and you thought it was just talk Well, I didn't know his van had been shot at that point in time your gun was in the bedroom, right?

Yes.

And it was jammed?

Yes.

So youre sitting there having a nice evening, having a few beers, have had hassles with Sandoval all day long Mclanes told you that that he's going to come back and get you guys.

He's on the front porch with a chainsaw.

and youre just sitting there drinking a beer.

Right.

And the stabbing just kind of happens?

Yeah.

And you had nothing to do with it?

Nothing.

And as indicated, Mr.

Hudgens, you like a fight at the drop of a hat.

And you're denying under oath, that you ever is here to threatened to kill Mr Sandoval back in the summer.

That's correct.

That's correct.

And again, one last opportunity, You didn't shoot the van?

Been asked & answered twice.

This is cross-examination you may ask 1 more time.

You didn't shoot the van Mr.

Hudgens?

I, I didn't shoot the van.

And if I did, I didn't di it intentionally.

As far as you're concerned, you, Mclane & Botello were just sort of innocently having a good time when Sandoval walked in & stabbed him.

Right.

And you had nothing to do to contribute to that?

Right.

No further questions your Honor.

Mr.

Hudgens,on cross examination you said Bobby would fight me in a heartbeat.

Whyd you say that?

Because hes that way.

Same as you are?

Right They asked you if it didn't seem unusual that you considered Mr.

Sandoval still a drinking buddy when you left the 404 club after the argument outside the 404 club.

You had had a prior fist fight with him that afternoon,hadnt you?

Yes.

And after that you went in, sat down, and he sat down with you & you continued drinking?

Yes.

It was not unusual then, for after arguments, after fights, for you all to reconcile & consoder yourselves buddies?

that wasnt unusual.

Mr.

Eisner asked a number of questions concerning whether or not the chainsaw at time it was handled by Mr.

Sandoval concerned you.

Mr.

Eisner indicated that you testified on January 21st.

Remember the following question and answer from Mr.

Eisner?

When he came back, he came back with a chainsaw did that concern you?

Answer... Well, I really don't know what was in his mind.

I didn't know if he was just trying to scare us or what.

You know, I really didn't pay no attention.

I was just sitting there looking at him, I really didn't, you know, I didn't.

I'm glad he didn't get it started let me put it that way.

Yes.

You think your reaction about the chainsaw were fresher on January 21st than they are today?

Probably.

Is that the way you felt?

Yes.

No further questions, your Honor The court is adjourned for the day.

Well, 1 more piece of the puzzle Were you trying to get him to punch you?

I was hoping he would Hes just a restrained guy.

Of course he didnt drink 3 cases of beer today.

I'm not sure I would have had that much restraint.

The second day of the trial, the prosecution continues its case against Robert Sandoval.

John McClane, one of the eyewitnesses to the events of Thanksgiving Day and to the stabbing, did not show up for the trial.

So his testimony from an earlier hearing is read to the jury.

It supports every detail of Glenn Hudgins testimony against Sandoval.

Now, the prosecutor calls an investigator from the district attorney's office to testify that it takes about ten minutes to drive from the scene of the stabbing to Sandoval's home.

Next, the coroner is called.

He testifies that when he examined Botellos body, he found, in addition to the stab wound, a number of scars and fresh bruises.

With regard to these abrasions and contusions that you found, are you able to have an opinion of whether or not theyre offensive or defensive?

Well, there are some of them that do not appear to be defensive.

Doctor, let me move now to your internal examination.

Did you determine the track of the stab wound?

Yes, I did.

How big was it on the exterior?

Approximately three quarters of an inch long.

How deep was it, Doctor?

Roughly 3 to 4 inches long from point of entrance to the point that I could last detect any injury from this stab.

Was it consistent with a wound that would be caused by a knife such as exhibit E?

Yes.

This would be consistent.

Doctor, I ask you to step down from the witness stand If we assume that Mr.Botello was standing when the wound was inflicted Can you demonstrate on me how that wound would be inflicted?

The wound was located 1 & 3 quarters inches to the right of the nnavel and half an inch above the navel Now, this wound track went front to back and slightly downward & right to left.

The aorta which the wound went through is in the midline of the abdomen.

Can you tell us what your findings were in terms of the measurements of the presence of alcohol?

Blood alcohol was .085%.

We know that at one point it would be as high as .10 or.11 in the state of Colorado, if someone is driving with a .10 alcohol they are presumed to be under the influence of alcohol.

What kind of effect would it have?

Well, there would be effects on your motor-ability and decreased inhabitions.

Do you have an opinion within a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to the cause of death of Arnold Botello?

Stab wound to the abdomen.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Good morning.

As youve indicated it was only one stab wound to the right of the belly button And I believe that if the wound would have been possibly one inch one side or the other it wouldve missed the aorta.

That would depend if the wound was exactly the same as we have here.

Lets talk about the wound for a second.

My understanding is that the aorta was severed, but there were no marks or indentations on the underlying vertebrae.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

You also examined Mr.

Botellos liver, did you not?

Yes, I did.

And is it correct that that indicated a moderate fatty change which was consisten with chronic ethanol abuse?

That's correct.

And thats saying the person is probably an alcholic?

Well, I think we get into the definition of an alcoholic.

It would mean that someone's been drinking alcohol on a regular basis.

And the person were violent at that alcohol level isnt it true that they would be more apt to show it and get involved in fighting?

It's a possiblity.

you indicated there are number of bruises on the right hand.

Are those consistent with striking someone with a fist?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Doctor.

Doctor as is indicated, the alcohol affects different people in different ways.

Mr.

Eisner asked if one of those ways is the person becomes their inhibitions decrease and they may become more aggressive.

That's correct.

Would you also say, Doctor, that a person may become more passive as a result?

Your Honor, at this time the people rest.

The jurors are taken out of the courtroom.

Your honor, at this mid point I move for acquittal as to the first count Even if we look at the evidence in the light most favorable to the people, I don't believe they've made out even a prima facie case of first degree premeditated murder.

And I'd ask that the court only continue this matter on with the jury as to second degree murder.

And I do view that all of the relevant evidence in light most favorable to the people and find that the evidence is substantial and would support a conclusion by reasonable line that the defendent is guilty of murder in the 1st degree by beyond reasonable doubt and therefore the court denies the motion for acquital.

Next, the case for the defense Colt stuck his head out the door and you could see his face What did you see on his face?

He was all swollen up.

He washed some of the blood off but he had a black eye, you know.

His lip was cut.

And that's when I realized where I was.

John was looking at me and I was looking at him, and he took a step towards me and he said, I did that to him.

And.

Thats when it all went.

I told Arnold to get out of the doorway Next thing I know, the knifes in my hand.

You testified a number times under direct examination that you were angry that you weren't in your right mind and things like that at the time you went back in there the second time.

Isn't that correct?

I was angry.

Confused, yes.. upset and irritable.

Yes.

And isnt the reason that you went back in there the second time to get revenge for somebody that had shot up your van?.

Yes.

At the time, I had in mind to cut furniture.

You have in mind to cut up the people too?

No, sir.

If you had it in mind a chainsaw would be a pretty good thing to do it with ?

I wouldn't know that, sir Well, you used that chainsaw, testified on many occasions to cut limbs, cut trees and everything else, didn't you?

Yes, sir.

Any doubt in your mind that it'd be pretty effective if you wanted to cut up people with it?

It probably would, but I use it as a tool.

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