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♪♪ >>> THE PRIMARIES ARE OVER AND THE BIG WINNER IS THE PARTY LINE.

WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

HAPPY TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

WITH US TODAY ARE THREE SURVIVORS OF COVERING ANOTHER PRIMARY SEASON.

JOANNA GAGIS, WHO'S CORRESPONDENT FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

MATT FRIEDMAN IS A REPORTER FOR POLITICO AND AUTHOR OF THE "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK."

AND MICHAEL SIMONS IS THE STATE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF FOR NEW JERSEY 101.5.

WE WILL UNLEASH THEM IN JUST A FEW MINUTES, BUT WE START TODAY WITH JUST THIS WEEK'S PRIMARIES.

BOTH PARTIES THWARTED IN THEIR ATTEMPTS TO UNSEAT INCUMBENTS AND PARTY-PICKED CANDIDATES.

BUT THE PARTY LINE IS A SYSTEM THAT IS BEING CHALLENGED IN THE COURTS AND ONE OF THE PLAINTIFFS IN THE SUIT IS THE NEW JERSEY WORKING FAMILIES PARTY.

JOINING US TODAY IS THE STATE DIRECTOR, SUE ALTMAN.

HEY, SUE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> HEY, DAVID.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M DOING GOOD.

SO AM I RIGHT?

IS THE LINE HEELEDING THE BIG STORY OUT OF TUESDAY?

>> I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, YEAH.

THE LINE IS HOLDING.

THERE'S SO MUCH ATTENTION PAID TO THE CONGRESSIONAL RACES AND THAT'S IMPORTANT, THOSE ARE THE FLASHIEST, THOSE GET THE MOST ATTENTION, BUT IT ALSO HAS SUCH AN EFFECT DOWN BALLOT, WHICH MEANS THAT THE QUALITY OF CANDIDATES THAT THEN GET TO RUN FOR CONGRESS DON'T HAVE THE LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE OR A VOTER BASE THAT WE SEE IN OTHER STATES.

SO SOMEONE LIKE SUMMER LEE, SHE RUNS IN PENNSYLVANIA, SHE'S AN INSURGENT, SHE WINS AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT INCUMBENT.

BUT SHE WAS A STATE REP BEFORE THAT.

SO SHE HAS A BASE OF VOTERS.

SO THE LINE PROBLEM STARTS EARLY IN NEW JERSEY POLITICS AND THWARTS THE ABILITY FOR PROGRESSIVES AND OTHER OUTSIDERS TO BUILD A BENCH, WHICH REALLY CULMINATES IN SOME SHOCKING LOSSES ON TUESDAY.

SO WE'RE THRILLED THAT WE'RE HOPING WE'RE ON OUR WAY FOR THAT LINE SYSTEM TO FINALLY GO THE WAY OF THE DINOSAUR.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT LAWSUIT, BUT WE SHOULD GIVE A QUICKIE EXPLANATION I THINK OF WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE REFER TO THE PARTY LINE.

CAN YOU DO THAT IN 30 SECONDS FOR US?

>> I'VE GOT THIS SPIEL DOWN PERFECTLY.

YES.

THE INCUMBENTS AND ESTABLISHMENT CHOICES, THE ONES SUPPORTED AND ENDORSED BY THE COUNTY PARTY SYSTEM, THEY GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT ON THE BALLOT IN PRIMARY ELECTIONS, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE ALL LINED UP FROM THE TOP OF THE TICKET, LET'S SAY IT'S JOE BIDEN, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO YOUR LOCAL CITY COUNCIL RACES IN A PARTISAN RACE.

SO IT GIVES THE IMPRESSION TO THE PERSON COMING IN TO THE VOTING BOOTH THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE VETTED PROPER CANDIDATES AND THEN THE OTHER CHALLENGERS ARE LOCATED OUTSIDE OF THAT LINE IN WHAT WE LIKE TO CALL BALLOT SIBERIA.

AND THERE ARE SOME REALLY EGREGIOUS EXAMPLES OF BALLOT SIBERIA THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS, BUT IT SHOWS UP ON YOUR BALLOT REALLY EGREGIOUSLY THAT YOU'RE AN OUTSIDE CANDIDATE, WHICH MAKES IT -- IT'S SORT OF LIKE -- IT'S SORT OF LIKE APT A GROCERY STORE WHEN YOU KNOW THAT PRODUCTS PAY A LITTLE EXTRA TO BE ON YOUR LINE SO THAT'S LIKE WHAT YOU SEE WHEN YOU'RE PICKING OUT CEREAL, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING DOWN HERE AND YOU'RE NOT LOOKING UP THERE.

THE BALLOT LINE WORKS SIMILARLY SO IT GIVES ANOT ADVANTAGE.

SOME STUDIES SAY BY JULIUS SASRUBEN A PROFESSOR AT RUTGERS THAT IT'S UP TO A 35% ADVANTAGE IN SOME RACES.

SO THIS IS A MAJOR TIPPING OF THE SCALE AND YOU CAN SEE HOW OVER TIME AND DIFFERENT RACES, DIFFERENT CYCLES THIS PROBLEM COMPOUNDS.

>> SO THE BASIS OF THE SUIT IS THE DESIGN OF THE BALLOT OR IS THAT JUST PART -- >> YEAH.

WELL, THAT'S THE -- I MEAN, THIS IS A BALLOT DESIGN LAWSUIT.

WE ARE ARGUING THAT THE BALLOT SHOULD NOT PUT THE FINGER ON THE SCALE TO FAVOR INCUMBENTS.

ALL WE WANT IS A FAIR CHANCE.

COUNTY PARTIES CAN STILL ENDORSE CANDIDATES.

THAT'S NOT PART OF OUR LAWSUIT.

WE'RE STRICTLY AND VERY FOCUSED ON THE WAY BALLOTS ARE DESIGNED IN NEW JERSEY, IN PRIMARY ELECTIONS.

WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO DO IT THIS WAY.

IT'S A BAD, EGREGIOUS EXAMPLE OF BAD DEMOCRACY, WHICH I THINK WE SEE AS THIS ACCUMULATES THROUGH OUR SYSTEM.

INCUMBENTS WHO ARE WAY PAST THEIR EXPIRATION DATE STILL SITTING IN OFFICE.

POLICIES THAT ARE VERY OUT OF STEP WITH THE PUBLIC AT LARGE IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

A LOT OF PLACES IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT THAT DON'T HAVE ANY COMPETITIVE ELECTIONS AT ALL.

NOT THE Ds VERSUS Rs IN THE GENERAL AND NOT IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION WHICH LEADS TO A LOT OF IN MY OPINION LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PARTICULARLY COUNTY GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING A TON OF MONEY WITHOUT W. NO CHECKS AND BALANCES.

SO WE ARE COMMITTED TO CHANGING THE SYSTEM BECAUSE IT'S BAD FOR NEW JERSEY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO THE JUDGE IN THE CASE ISSUED A RULING A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

WHAT WAS THAT?

JUST THAT THE CASE CAN GO FORWARD, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

IT WAS GETTING THROUGH THE MOTION TO DISMISS POINT IN TIME.

YOU SUE SOMEBODY AND THEN THE JUDGE DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ENOUGH EVIDENCE THERE TO KEEP THE CASE MOVING OR IF YOU'VE MADE THIS UP AND IT'S NO GOOD.

THE JUDGE IN THIS CASE DECIDED WE'RE MOVING FORWARD.

YEAH.

>> RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT.

I WANT TO PLAY THIS CLIP FROM "CHAT BOX" THIS WEEK WHERE STEVE SWEENEY, THE FORMER STATE SENATE PRESIDENT, WAS ASKED ABOUT THIS VERY THING.

LET'S HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY, AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT.

>> NO ONE'S DENYING A COUNTY LINE TO -- OR AN -- THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE MISS.

IN MY MIND THEY'RE LAZY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO GO OUT AND GET THE CANDIDATES THEY NEED TO GET THE COUNTY LINE.

>> FIRST I'M SURE YOU LOVE BEING CALLED LAZY BY STEVE SWEENEY.

BUT ASIDE FROM THAT IS HE RIGHT?

>> NO.

OF COURSE STEVE SWEENEY'S NOT RIGHT.

WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT?

THE MAN LOST TO ED DUR.

>> BUT LISTEN, ANY PARTY CAN JUST PUT A SLATE TOGETHER AND GET INTO THE BALLOT POSITION DRAWING?

>> SO IT'S NOT SO SIMPLE.

THERE ARE NO CONSISTENT RULES FROM COUNTY TO COUNTY.

SO WE'VE SEEN WITHIN CONGRESSIONAL RACES LIKE AMY KENNEDY RAN IN A PRIMARY IN 2020, SHE GOT PLACED IN DIFFERENT -- EVEN THOUGH SHE HAD THE RIGHT TYPE OF CANDIDATES THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU NEED A COUNTY FREEHOLDER CANDIDATE -- OR COMMISSIONER CANDIDATE AND -- SHE STILL GOT PUT IN DIFFERENT PLACES IN DIFFERENT COUNTIES ACROSS SOUTH JERSEY.

SO NO.

I MEAN, FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT SWEENEY IS MISTAKEN.

IT'S NOT SO SIMPLE.

AND THEN THE OTHER PROBLEM IS YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO FIND A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TO BRACKET WITH IN ORDER TO RUN FOR YOUR LOCAL TOWN COUNCIL.

THAT'S ABSURD.

THAT'S JUST RIDICULOUS.

SO NO.

THIS IS OLD SCHOOL ESTABLISHMENT TALKING AND I'M OVER IT.

>> YOU DISAGREE.

LET ME GET A PANEL QUESTION IN HERE.

MICHAEL SIMONS, YOU'VE GOT A QUESTION?

>> I WAS WONDERING WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS WERE ABOUT THE -- THIS MODERATE PARTY THAT IS ATTEMPTING TO GET ON THE BALLOT AND SORT OF HAVE TOM ALLEN AS THEIR CANDIDATE IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE AND COMBINE THE VOTES THAT HE GETS ON BOTH BALLOT POSITIONS, THIS IDEA OF FUSION VOTING.

>> MICHAEL, HI.

I LOVE IT.

I THINK FUSION VOTING'S FANTASTIC.

AND I THINK WE HAVE IT IN NEW YORK, WE HAVE IT IN CONNECTICUT.

THE WFP, WORKING FAMILIES PARTY, HAS A LINE IN THOSE PLACES.

BUT BEYOND THAT I THINK WE'RE AT A POINT IN OUR VERY FRAGILE DEMOCRACY, AND LAST NIGHT'S JANUARY 6th HEARINGS WERE HARROWING, WHERE WE NEED A HOME FOR PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS MODERATE.

SO I SUPPORT THE EFFORT IN CD-7.

I THINK THOSE PEOPLE ARE DOING GOOD WORK.

AND I MORE IMPORTANTLY SUPPORT -- NOT MORE IMPORTANTLY.

EQUALLY SUPPORT FUSION VOTING.

I THINK IT'S A HEALTHY ECOSYSTEM THAT COULD EMERGE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEND MESSAGES TO THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS FROM THE PARTY THEY IDENTIFY WITH.

NOW WE'RE TALKING IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, NOT THE PRIMARY.

>> I'M CURIOUS IF ANY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS HAVE JUMPED ON AS PLAINTIFFS OR FILED AMICUS BRIEFS.

A DIFFERENT BALLOT LINE, NO LINE MIGHT HAVE HELPED PHIL RIZZO OR HERSH SINGH OR IAN SMITH.

NO?

>> WE'RE TALKING PRIMARIES?

WE'RE MOVING FROM FUSION BACK TO THE PRIMARIES?

YEAH.

WE HAVEN'T -- I WOULD WELCOME A BIPARTISAN AND CROSS-PARTISAN AMICI IN THE LINE LAWSUIT FOR PRIMARY ELECTIONS.

THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.

I MIGHT NOT AGREE A LOT WITH LIKE A CONSERVATIVE OR BE LIBERTARIAN PARTY, BUT IF THEY'RE TRYING TO RUN IN A PRIMARY AND THEY'RE FACING THE SAME BARRIERS, THEN LIKE LET'S GET TOGETHER AND WORK ON THAT TOGETHER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I HAVE TWO QUICK QUESTIONS.

RIGHT?

NUMBER ONE, WOULD YOU ELIMINATE THE LINE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION TOO?

THAT IS, JUST SO EVERYBODY'S -- >> TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCENARIO.

SO I THINK FUSION VOTING IS A GREAT SYSTEM FOR GENERAL ELECTIONS.

AND I THINK THAT A LINE THAT'S ALONG PARTY LINES SENDS A DIFFERENT MESSAGE THAN A LINE THAT'S ALONG PRIMARIES LINES.

YOU KNOW, IN A PRIMARY YOU'RE PRESUPTUAALY PART OF A PARTY.

IN A GENERAL ELECTION YOU'RE PART OF A PARTY.

SO GROUPING THEM IS A COHERENT SYSTEM.

JUST LIKE THEY HAVE IN NEW YORK AND CONNECTICUT.

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUICK QUESTION WHICH I THINK I BROUGHT UP ONCE BEFORE A LONG TIME AGO AND GOT SUCH NEGATIVE FEEDBACK.

BUT SUE ALTMAN, CANDIDATE FOR WHAT?

SOON ENOUGH.

>> CANDIDATE FOR WHAT?

RIGHT NOW I'M WORKING ON FIXING THIS BROKEN SYSTEM WE HAVE, DAVID.

LIKE ONE CANDIDATE CANNOT CHANGE -- >> SO YOU'VE GOT TO FIX IT FIRST?

>> WE'VE GOT TO FIX IT FIRST.

NOT JUST FOR ME.

WE'VE GOT TO FIX IT FOR EVERYBODY.

WHO KNOWS WHAT SUE ALTMAN IS GOING TO DO?

BUT I AM VERY, VERY COMMITTED RIGHT NOW TO FIXING WHAT I THINK IN NEW JERSEY IS AN EGREGIOUSLY BROKEN SYSTEM AT MULTIPLE LEVELS AND I COUNTRY WHOSE DEMOCRACY IS FALLING APART IN FRONT OF OUR EYES.

SO THAT TO ME IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ME RUNNING FOR ANY OFFICE.

>> BIGGER STUFF TO DO RIGHT NOW.

ALL RIGHT, SUE ALTMAN IS THE STATE DIRECTOR FOR NEW JERSEY WORKING FAMILIES PARTY.

SUE, GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> NICE TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS, DAVID.

>> ALL RIGHT.

PANEL, MICHAEL, MATT, JOANNA, WELCOME.

GREAT TO SEE YOU GUYS AS WELL.

MATT, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS ON WEDNESDAY MORNING AND ARE THEY STILL THE SAME THOUGHTS TODAY?

>> ABOUT THE PRIMARY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> YEAH.

>> MAINLY THE ESTABLISHMENT WON.

IN A COUPLE CASES WHERE THERE WERE MAYBE MILD SURPRISES EVEN THE CANDIDATES WHO PULLED OFF THE UPSETS HAD SOME ESTABLISHMENT SUPPORT, JUST IN THE LESSER COUNTIES.

I THINK TRUMP IS STILL IN A LOT OF WAYS A FORCE.

BUT IF TRUMP HIMSELF IS NOT GOING TO GET INVOLVED THEN A CANDIDATE CAN'T REALLY RELY ON THAT.

YOU CAN'T HAVE -- ONE OF THE CANDIDATES RUNNING, CHRIS SMITH, HAD SORT OF THE ROGUE'S GALLERY OF TRUMP ALLIES.

THE QANON GENERAL, MICHAEL FLYNN, AND THE RUDY GIULIANI AND, YOU KNOW, CONVICTED FELON ROGER STONE.

YOU KNOW, THEY COULDN'T GET HIM PAST 40 WHATEVER PERCENT, LOW 40s.

AND SO NO, I THINK YOU'VE GOT THE ESTABLISHMENT PARTY LINE AND TRUMP IS STILL A FORCE BUT HE REALLY NEEDS TO KIND OF GET IN THERE AND DO SOMETHING TO REALLY I THINK SWING AN ELECTION.

>> MATT, IS THAT YOUR SUPERVISOR BARKING ORDERS AT YOU?

>> YEAH, I'M SORRY.

IT'S MY DOG.

JUST HAVING A -- >> IT'S ALL RIGHT.

MIKE, TAKEAWAYS FROM TUESDAY?

ANY SURPRISES FOR YOU?

>> NO, AS MATT WAS SAYING, IT WAS MOSTLY WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ANTICIPATED.

SOME OF THE -- I THINK IT'S INTERESTING HOW 4 OUT OF THE 12 RACES ARE RERUNS OF THE 2020 ELECTION.

1, 3, 5, AND 9.

BUT THEY'RE NOT PURE RERUNS BECAUSE OF REDISTRICTING.

AND SO THE BOUNDARIES OF EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED.

IN MANY PLACES THE SWING DISTRICTS ARE MOVED MORE TOWARD THE DEMOCRATS, BUT THE BIGGEST EXAMPLE, THE CLOSEST RACE IT MOVED TOWARD REPUBLICANS, WHICH IS THE 7th DISTRICT, TOM MALINOWSKI, THE TOM KANE JR. REMATCH THERE.

SO IN THAT DISTRICT AT THIS POINT IS ONE OF TWO IN THE STATE WHERE REGISTERED REPUBLICANS OUTNUMBER REGISTERED DEMOCRATS.

SO BY THAT MEASURE AT LEAST THE DISTRICT IS MORE REPUBLICAN EVEN THAN JEFF VAN DREWS DOWN IN SOUTH JERSEY.

>> JOANNA, YOU GOT SOME RAIN DURING YOUR LIVE SHOT, WHICH IS ALWAYS GOOD FOR A LAUGH.

BUT YOU ALSO GOT THE EXCLUSIVE WITH BOB MENENDEZ, WHO FOR THE LIFE OF ME COULD NOT HAVE LOOKED MORE UNHAPPY FOR A GUY THAT WAS ABOUT TO GET 80% OF THE VOTE.

DO YOU HAVE A TAKE AWARE?

>> YEAH.

THAT ENERGY WAS REALLY LOW, PROBABLY THE LOWEST OF ANYONE I'VE EVER INTERVIEWED IN THIS KIND OF SETTING.

I THINK HE WAS HOLDING IT ALL IN BECAUSE AS WE WERE LEAVING I SAW HIM ACTUALLY WITH A BIG SMILE ON HIS FACE.

SO I THINK HE WAS REALLY RESERVED.

HESITANT I THINK TO EVEN TALK TO US BECAUSE HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE HAD SUCH A HUGE ADVANTAGE IN THAT RACE.

I GUESS DIDN'T WANT TO SEEM LIKE HE WAS GLOATING.

BUT YEAH, HE HAS THE NAME MENENDEZ.

SO THERE WAS NO SURPRISE IN THE 8th DISTRICT THAT HE WAS GOING TO PULL OFF THAT WIN.

JUST QUICKLY TO THE TRUMP FACTOR IF I COULD, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 5th DISTRICT, RIGHT?

GOTTHEIMER ACTUALLY GOT INVOLVED IN THAT PRIMARY RACE, SENT OUT A MAILER TO MAKE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN TRUMP AND PALATA, WHICH I THINK COULD HAVE HELPED PUSH PALATA OVER THE EDGE THERE, AND NOW I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER ALL OF THIS IS GOING TO PLAY AS THESE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS PLAY OUT.

KIND OF CONFLAING SOME ISSUES THERE.

IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE TRUMP FACTOR IS AS WE HEAD INTO A GENERAL ELECTION.

>> YEAH.

MATT, THERE WAS SOME OP-ED OR SOME NEWSLETTER OR SOMETHING THAT I READ THAT SUGGESTED THAT CONSERVATIVES HAD REJECTED TOM KANE.

TRUE OR NOT?

>> HE GOT 45% OF THE VOTE.

AND HE HAD SIX CANDIDATES.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS -- IF IT WAS HEAD TO HEAD NOT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WOULD NECESSARILY BE AGAINST TOM KANE.

PHIL RIZZO HAS A SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWING.

HE'S ABLE TO GET LIKE 20%, 25%.

BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY SEE HIS STUFF AND WHAT HE WRITES, THIS IS LIKE -- HE'S VERY, VERY, VERY FAR RIGHT.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF VITRIOL, IF YOU LOOK AT HIM.

IN FACT, HIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN WAS REALLY JUST VITRIOL AGAINST TOM KANE.

AND ME.

AND OTHER REPORTERS TO BE FAIR.

BUT I THINK JUST BECAUSE HE GOT -- DOESN'T MEAN THAT IF IT WAS ONE ON ONE HE WOULD HAVE NECESSARILY.

BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CHALLENGING.

AND THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN THE PUBLIC AND GUBERNATORIAL RACE LAST YEAR WHERE FILL RIZZO SAID -- AND JACK CIATARELLI GOT A LITTLE OVER HALF.

20 YEARS AGO HE WAS CONSIDERED FAIRLY CONSERVATIVE AND NOW TODAY HE'S CONSIDERED FAIRLY MODERATE.

AND I JUST -- THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF ENERGY ON THE RIGHT RIGHT NOW.

AND HOW THAT WILL PLAY IN A GENERAL ELECTION I'M NOT SURE.

JACK CHAT RELLI.

>> IS ANGER GOING TO BE A PART OF THAT PLAYBOOK COME THE FALL?

A LOT OF OF THESE CAMPAIGNS WERE REALLY -- ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE REALLY KIND OF ANGRY, THE TONE.

>> YEAH.

ISN'T THAT KIND OF WHAT TRUMPISM IS ABOUT?

A LOT OF IT IS THERE'S PEOPLE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY THINGS FROM YOU AND THEY'RE TRYING TO BRING OUR COUNTRY DOWN AND THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN MADE NOT GREAT BY VARIOUS PEOPLE.

A LOT OF IT IS BASED IN ANGER AND KIND OF OTHERING PEOPLE.

IN FACT, I THINK THERE'S EVIDENCE THAT THAT WORKED, EVEN IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY YOU HAD TYPHOON CELINE, WHICH HAD ONE OF THE MILD KIND OF UPSETS IN THIS RACE, THE MORRIS COUNTY DIRECTOR.

HAD THE MOST ESTABLISHMENT SUPPORT IN HIS RACE AND HIS TWO MAIN RIVALS CAME AFTER HIM OVER DONORS -- HE'S A TURKISH IMMIGRANT AND HIS TWO MAIN RIVALS MADE THE TURKISH CONNECTION AND HIT HIM FOR HAVING SOME TURKISH DONORS.

NOW, YOU CAN LEGITIMATELY TALK ABOUT DONORS AND SEVERING, BUT I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THE MESSAGE THEY WERE TRYING TO SEND THERE.

AND IT MAY HAVE WORKED WITH AT LEAST ENOUGH OF A PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE TO HELP COST HIM THAT ELECTION, HONESTLY.

>> YEAH.

MICHAEL, DID I READ THE TURNOUT WAS ACTUALLY UP THIS YEAR?

AND WHY WOULD THAT BE?

BECAUSE OF EARLY VOTING?

VOTE BY MAIL?

IS IT WORKING?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN FINAL NUMBERS TO KNOW IF IT'S UP.

THERE WERE A LOT OF UNCONTESTED RACES.

BUT THERE WERE ALSO QUITE A NUMBER OF VERY CONTESTED RACES.

A LOT OF CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOT.

SO THAT HELPS A LOT.

I'D SAY THAT ONE NUMBER THAT WAS TRYING TO TEASE OUT THE NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS VERSUS THE NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS AND SAYING LIKE LOOK HOW MUCH REPUBLICAN TURNOUT INCREASED AND DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT WAS FLAT.

BUT THE REPUBLICAN SIDE IS WHERE THE ACTION WAS.

THERE WASN'T A LOT OF COMPETITION IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES.

SO I WOULDN'T PUT A LOT OF STOCK NECESSARILY INTO THE PARTISAN MAKEUP OF WHO TURNED OUT.

>> YEAH.

GOOD POINT.

>> I AGREE WITH MIKE ON THAT POINT BUT I ALSO THINK THAT JUST THE FACT THAT THERE WERE -- I THINK OF THE -- WAS IT 36 CANDIDATES AND 26 WERE REPUBLICAN.

GRANTED THAT'S IN PART BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE DEMOCRAT.

I DON'T THINK THE TURNOUT NUMBERS ARE WHAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT FOR THE ENTHUSIASM.

BUT THE SHEER NUMBER OF CANDIDATES IS.

AND IN THE DEMOCRATIC OPEN SEAT YOU HAD THE DEMOCRATIC MACHINE IN HUDSON COUNTY DOING WHAT IT DOES BEST, WITH THE HELP OF THE LINE, AND JUST BASICALLY CLEARING THE FIELD FOR THE SON OF THE SENATOR.

SO REALLY NOT A LOT OF EXCITEMENT THERE.

IN A LOT OF WAYS THE DEMOCRATS ENTHUSIASMWISE MIGHT SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY REAL COMPETITION AND THEY KEEP OUT THE COMPETITION WITH THEIR STRUCTURAL ADVANTAGES.

NOT TO SAY REPUBLICANS DON'T DO THAT AS WELL.

BUT IN HUTSON COUNTY IT WAS REALLY -- A GUY WITH ALMOST NO GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE COMING OUT OF NOWHERE AND HE'S BASICALLY BEEN ANOINTED SENATOR.

IT WASN'T VERY DEMOCRATIC.

>> ONLY IN AMERICA.

IN HUDSON COUNTY.

>> YES.

>> JOANNA, WHAT DO YOU THINK VOTERS ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT IN THE FALL OTHER THAN TRUMP?

IS IT GOING TO BE THE ECONOMY?

ABORTION?

JANUARY 6th?

SOMETHING ELSE?

>> I MEAN, IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE HOW SHORT OF A MEMORY AND ATTENTION SPAN VOTERS HAVE.

RIGHT NOW THE KEY ISSUES ARE I THINK GUN CONTROL, ABORTION RIGHTS AND JANUARY 6th.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THOSE ARE GOING TO CARRY.

AND IF DEMOCRATS IN PARTICULAR CAN KIND OF KEEP UP THAT STEAM AND ACTUALLY ROLL THOSE ISSUES INTO THIS GENERAL ELECTION, INTO THIS MIDTERM.

BUT THOSE ARE DEFINITELY THE ISSUES OF TODAY.

YOU -- GO AHEAD.

>> I'M SORRY.

YOU HAD A STORY ABOUT A TEACHER WHO GOT FIRED FOR A LESSON ON LGBTQ LIFE.

THAT KIND OF IS SOMETHING THAT REPUBLICANS AT LEAST IN NEW JERSEY AND CLEARLY OTHER STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT AS WELL, DON'T YOU THINK?

>> YES.

I DO THINK.

AND JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THAT STORY, THERE'S A TEACHER -- THERE'S ACTUALLY A SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST IN PISCATAWAY WHO HELD A DAY OF SILENCE, A DAY WHERE STUDENTS CAN VOW SILENCE IN SUPPORT OF THEIR LGBTQ COMMUNITY.

AND SHE SAYS SHE'S DONE THIS FOR FOUR YEARS.

HOWEVER, SHE ADDED LGBTQ PLUS CURRICULUM THIS YEAR, APPARENTLY SHE DIDN'T FOLLOW SOME PROTOCOL AND AFTER FOUR YEARS SERVING IN THE DISTRICT SHE WAS LET GO.

P SHE DID NOT RECEIVE TENURE.

THERE WAS AN EVENT LAST NIGHT THAT I ATTENDED AND THE COMMUNITY CAME OUT IN SUPPORT OF HER.

REALLY MOVING TO HEAR A LOT OF HER STUDENTS CRYING, PLEADING WITH THE DISTRICT TO PLEASE REVERSE THIS, TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO STOP SCHOOL SHOOTINGS AND HERE YOU HAVE A COUNSELOR WHO'S SO WELL TRUSTED AND HAS HELPED SO MANY IN THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, SO MANY WHO FELT BULLIED AND POLARIZED TO FEEL ACCEPTED AND THRIVE IN THIS DISTRICT, IT DIDN'T SEEM THAT MANY OF THE STUDENTS WERE ABLE TO WARM THE HEARTS OF THE BOARD MEMBERS.

BUT AGAIN, THESE ISSUES ARE ALL CONNECTED.

RIGHT?

WE TALK ABOUT STUDENTS IN MENTAL HEALTH.

WE TALK ABOUT THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY.

WE TACK ABOUT GUNS IN SCHOOLS.

THERE'S A LINE HERE, THERE'S A CONNECTION BETWEEN ALL OF THAT.

I DO THINK THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT MATTER MOST, AT LEAST TO DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW.

>> MATT, YOU HAD AN ITEM IN THE PLAYBOOK FRIDAY ABOUT THE FAIRNESS IN WOMEN'S SPORTS ACT.

THIS IS SOMETHING RIGHT OUT OF THE GOP PLAYBOOK TOO, NO?

>> YOU KNOW, SO THE FAIRNESS IN WOMEN'S SPORTS ACT IS ONE BILL AND PROBABLY IN ALMOST EPH STATE THERE'S A BILL JUST LIKE THIS TOO, TO BASICALLY KEEP TRANSGENDER KIDS OUT OF WOMEN'S SPORTS.

WHAT'S AMAZING IS YOU LOOK AT THIS BILL AND MANY OTHERS AROUND THE COUNTRY INCLUDING SOME THAT HAVE PASSED LEGISLATURES AND I THINK EVEN SOME THAT HAVE BEEN SIGNED BY GOVERNORS.

HOW DO YOU FLOW IF A KID IT TRANSGENDER?

WELL, IF THE KID'S STATUS IS QUOTE UNQUOTE DISPUTED, THAT'S LANGUAGE IN THE BILL, SO TO ME THAT MEANS IF SOMEONE'S ACCUSED THE KID, THEN THEY HAVE TO SHOW A DOCTOR'S NOTE SHOWING THREE THINGS.

AND IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR -- THE WAY I READ IT HONESTLY LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE GOT TO PROVE ALL THREE.

BUT IT'S PRETTY AMAZING TO ME THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS AND THEN IT'S LIKE OKAY, OH, AND IF YOU WANT TO PLAY SPORTS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH SOME VERY INVASIVE STUFF.

I THOUGHT THE REPUBLICANS, THEY CALL THEMSELVES THE PARTY OF SMALL GOVERNMENT BUT HERE THEY'RE INTRODUCING A BILL AND PASSING IT AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE IF ANY PARENT SAYS I THINK THAT KID'S TRANSGENDER THE WAY I READ THESE BILLS IS UNDER THE STAUT'S AUTHORITY IF THAT KID WANTS TO PLAY A GAME AGAINST OTHER KIDS THAT KID HASS TO GO GET A VERY THOROUGH AND VERY INVASIVE CHECK BY THE DOCTOR.

DO YOU REALLY NEED TO MAP A KID'S GENOME TO PLAY FIELD HOCKEY?

>> LASTLY, I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

I WANT TO GET MAKE A QUICK 15 SECONDS ON EACH OF YOU FROM WHAT YOU SAW THIS WEEK IN THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS AND WHAT IMPACT THE YOU THE MOST.

LET'S START WITH YOU, JOANNA.

REAL QUICK.

>> I THINK IT WAS REALLY NOTABLE TO HEAR SO MANY FROM TRUMP'S CABINET WHO DENOUNCED HIS CLAIMS THAT THIS WAS A STOLEN AND FRAUDULENT ELECTION, AND NOW WE HEAR HOW MANY WERE TELLING HIM YOU CANNOT MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS.

HE WAS SAYING HIS SUPPORTERS ON THAT DAY WERE DOING WHAT THEY, QUOTE, SHOULD BE DOING AND THAT INCLUDED THEIR CALLS TO HANG MIKE PENCE.

I THINK WE'VE HEARD SOME OF THAT, BUT JUST TO SEE IT LAID OUT IN A TIMELINE IN THE WAY THAT IT WAS WAS REALLY JARRING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET ME GET MIKE SIMONS.

>> I THOUGHT THE LIVE TESTIMONY PART WAS INTERESTING, BUT PROBABLY THE MOST COMPELLING AND IMPORTANT PART IS THE VIDEO THAT KIND OF FORCES YOU BACK TO WHERE YOU WERE ON THAT DAY, AND IT'S HARD TO IGNORE SOME OF WHAT WAS BEING SHOWN, BOTH FROM THE DOCUMENTARIAN AS WELL AS SORT OF THE CAMERAS IN THE CAPITOL.

>> YEAH.

MATT, 15 SECONDS.

>> SAD AND ANGRY BECAUSE THE INFORMATION, BIPARTISAN, LIZ CHENEY NO LIBERAL, BUT OBVIOUSLY HAS SOME SORT OF PRINCIPLES WHEN IT COMES TO DEMOCRACY.

THE INFORMATION WAS CLEAR.

THE INFORMATION WAS REAL.

AND YET THE MOST WATCHED CABLE NEWS NETWORK DID NOT AIR IT IS IT AND INSTEAD AIRED A FAR RIGHT TALKING HEAD LYING ABOUT IT.

THAT'S DISTURBING TO ME AND SHOWS OUR DEMOCRACY'S IN A BAD PLACE.

>> MATT FRIEDMAN, JOANNA GAGIS, MICHAEL SIMONS, GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

THANKS ALSO TO SUE ALTMAN.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @DAVIDCRUZNJ AND SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL FOR MORE NEWSY STUFF LIKE LIVESTREAMS FROM AROUND THE STATE.

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LISTEN, I'M OFF NEXT WEEK, BUT DON'T DESPAIR.

OUR SEASON FINALE IN TWO WEEKS WILL FEATURE LIVE ARM WRESTLING AND THE CLIFFHANGER YOU NEVER SAW COMING.

IN THE MEANTIME, FOR EVERYBODY OVER HERE I'M DAVID CRUZ.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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