First mumbling, rumbling.

Welcome to Party Politics.

I'm Jeronimo Cortina, a political science professor at the University of Houston.

And I'm Brandon Rottinghaus a political science professor also here at the University of Houston.

Thanks for hanging out with us and talking a little party politics.

We say every week that it's an exciting week and there's lots going on.

But wow, this has been quite the week.

I mean, how much more can we up this before?

Things are just spiraling into orbit.

But obviously the big news, Jeronimo, this week is that the former president of the United States has been indicted.

has been indicted.

The D.A.

from Manhattan, Alvin Bragg, made it official, 34 counts.

This is essentially, as we said last week, a case involving This is essentially, as we said last week, a case involving hush money from the former president to a former paramour.

hush money from the former president to a former paramour.

We'll just leave it at that.

We'll just leave it at that.

Before the 2016 election.

Surrender is what the D.A.

said to the president, which apparently he's doing with little fanfare.

There's not going to be a mug shot.

We're not going to have a lot of pomp and circumstance around this, which I think is actually probably the wise choice.

The less you inflame this, the better.

But look, there's going to be a lot of inflamed political feelings around this.

So what's your sort of sense of how just that process, just let it soak in for a smidgen, right.

And tell me what you think this means and like And tell me what you think this means and like how we're going how we're going to kind of move on from this as a political unit.

Well, I don't know how we're going to move on because there is a lot of moving pieces.

Yeah, well, first of all, the process.

I mean, historically, this is the first time I mean, historically, this is the first time that a former president has been indicted.

Yeah, right.

So that's, you know, like for the books, right?

Like no one.

No, we're literally writing books.

As excited.

As matter.

It's it's it's that's very impressive.

Yeah, right.

The other things obviously are the well, I guess one regarding you know, the president's ego.

Right.

And the other one, he's going to be political.

So Donald Trump has been embedded in legal battles.

I think he's since he was probably 18.

I think he's since he was probably 18.

That's actually true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's actually true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And every single time he has won.

Yeah, he has never been indicted.

Well yeah.

Before.

Right.

There's never been serious consequences.

Right.

There's never been serious consequences.

Right.

Financial consequences.

Financial consequences.

Well I mean financial consequences.

There has been a fine here, a fine there, etc.. Everything has been, you know, sealed, etc., etc.. Everything has been, you know, sealed, etc., etc..

But this is the first time that he he has lost.

Very public, very like.

Very public, very like.

Humiliate.

Yeah.

Right.

So we know that President Trump doesn't like to be publicly humiliated.

So this is not you know, I'm always a winner so far, right?

Yeah.

As of today.

Right.

Right.

As of today.

It's, let's say, one zero in favor of it.

Oh, New York City attorney, do you.

Oh, New York City attorney, do you.

Think that Trump runs the risk of kind of talking himself out of a victory here?

talking himself out of a victory here?

Because, look, the case, to be honest, is sort of weak, right?

This is a case that there's a good chance they could lose.

This is a case that there's a good chance they could lose.

And depending on the jury pool and the specifics of it.

Right.

There's a lot of kind of moving parts, There's a lot of kind of moving parts, as you said, and a lot of uncertainty.

Can Trump basically talk his way into a conviction here?

Are people like no longer trust him, no longer believe him.

And that hurts his credibility, which, you know, hurts his ability to be able to get an acquittal on this.

Well, I mean, his lawyers are going to be extremely nervous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

You know, that's a fair, smart, because once this move to trial, then he can win.

he can win.

He can lose, right?

If he wins, I mean, that's a gold mine.

Yeah.

Because it's.

I told you so.

Yeah.

I'm it's a political prosecution.

I'm it's a political prosecution.

And then, you know, he's going to be the candidate for the Republican Party.

Yeah.

I mean, hands down.

Remember the fable, the gingerbread man, right?

You can't catch me.

And that's Donald Trump, the gingerbread man.

And the problem is that, like for the D.A.

and for all of Trump's political opponents and some legal opponents, they want to see this go and they want to have this be the moment where he's brought to justice.

But that's probably not going to happen.

There are others we'll talk about in a second, but I think it really runs the risk of essentially missing him, right.

Wasn't it, Oz?

Right.

The prison show where it was like The prison show where it was like if you come at the king, you better not miss.

And there's a chance they could miss here.

Right.

This legal case is pretty thin.

So it could be a problem.

I mean, probably this was not the case, right?

This was not the case.

Not the right one to break.

No.

I mean, for you know, for those that are seeking whatever it is that they're seeking politically or legally or whatnot.

Yeah, but the big question here that I still do not have an answer, I know that you have an answer because you're a senior than me right here.

Yes.

Oh, it's on you.

Gotcha.

It's cute.

It's zoom in.

You know, what is the Republican Party going to do?

Yeah, I think there's two things I want to understand.

What do you think about?

Well, the first one is, you know, the anti-Trump Republicans, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're like, oh, my God, you are just throwing gas into the fire.

This is very bad for us.

You know, the club, the Club for Growth type of Republicans are saying like, no, he's not my candidate.

type of Republicans are saying like, no, he's not my candidate.

Yeah.

And then the other one is, you know, the anti-Trump Republicans that, you know, are just anti-Trump.

Republicans that, you know, are just anti-Trump.

For example, I don't know some senators.

For example, I don't know some senators.

Asa Hutchinson, for instance.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

And then you have MAGA Republicans, right?

So what's going to happen here?

So what's going to happen here?

Waving at the plane as he flies to.

New York by Marjorie Taylor GREENE?

Several days.

I'm going to be there to support you if she shows up.

But right.

The question is, you know.

you know.

Yeah, how is it going to play out?

It's a really good question because that really is the are like kind of bailiwick here, right?

like kind of bailiwick here, right?

I mean, legally speaking, there's lots of things that we don't get.

But obviously the political thing is what we talk about.

I think that for at least a wing of the party, they like this.

I think that for at least a wing of the party, they like this.

And we talked about this last week And we talked about this last week that the base really is energized by Donald Trump's use of the kind of, you know, social media as a wedge and as a cudgel against, you know, social media as a wedge and as a cudgel against, you know, any kind of opponents.

you know, any kind of opponents.

So that's one thing the Republicans sprinted to back him after he this was announced.

back him after he this was announced.

Right.

And that has been pretty stunning.

Before they even saw the charges, they were lining up to support him.

So there's definitely a lot of strength there.

Now, remember, the same thing happened for Bill Clinton after the Lewinsky scandal broke and there wasn't as nearly as much evidence there, although it turns out to be mostly true, the Democrats basically lined up to support him, too.

So there's a real risk here for Republicans and that if they back him in, all of a sudden there's evidence that's overwhelming that shows this is true.

It could be a real problem.

But here's another thing I want to pitch to you, too, and that is the money.

In the days following the announcement of the indictment, In the days following the announcement of the indictment, he raised more than $5 million to $4 million he raised more than $5 million to $4 million in the first 24 hours.

And it was a lot of small dollar donations.

25% came from first time donors.

The average contribution was $34.

The average contribution was $34.

That's a lot of money.

That's a lot of money.

When you get indicted.

A rarity.

All right.

All right.

So, I mean, to answer your question more specifically, I don't know what'll happen with all of this, I don't know what'll happen with all of this, but clearly, the party still supports him.

The wing that loved him is going to love him.

The woman hates him, still hates him.

But there's a lot of people out there who are willing to give their money, hard earned money, to make sure that he can stay in office.

to make sure that he can stay in office.

Billy Pitcher back to you.

Billy Pitcher back to you.

Because there's a question here I have and that was about how political people perceive.

This was interesting.

how political people perceive.

This was interesting.

60% of Americans, according to CNN, approve of the indictment 60% of Americans, according to CNN, approve of the indictment when they see the evidence.

when they see the evidence.

But 64, 52% say politics played a major role.

Now, politics always plays a role Now, politics always plays a role in who's prosecuting, who's not.

That's inherent.

This is only amplified because it's the former president.

This is only amplified because it's the former president.

So do you think that this could be perceived as So do you think that this could be perceived as too political where like the DA basically overshot its mark too political where like the DA basically overshot its mark and as a result they might lose this case and as a result they might lose this case or lose the people support of prosecution, of people of, you know, former, you know, politicians who have abused power in this way.

Well, I think, as you say, it's political everything Well, I think, as you say, it's political everything to a politician.

It's impossible.

To avoid.

But even, you know, what type of tennis shoes you work, you're sending a political message one way or the other.

It's people, Johnny.

You're judging me today.

Exactly.

So Exactly.

So but but the question but but the question here is, you know, if the day right.

When this thing goes to trial.

Yeah.

If it's going to hold water.

If it's going to hold water.

Because here the key issue is not about hush money because, you know, district attorneys use that every single day.

you know, district attorneys use that every single day.

Right.

The question here is how they tie it to election loss.

Yes.

That makes it illegal.

That makes it illegal.

And that's that's the thing that bridge between, you know, the high they allege hush money you know, the hush they allege hush money and how they kind of build the case and how they kind of build the case in order to breach these electoral laws.

in order to breach these electoral laws.

That makes it illegal.

Right.

And then if that is the case, then you can go federal.

Yeah, right.

As well.

Yeah, right.

As well.

So the feds have really passed on it, right?

So yeah, you're talking about making, you know, mountain of a molehill.

Essentially, this is a misdemeanor records case in some way.

If you look at it, as his opponents are saying and his attorneys are saying, and it's going to be trumped up into, no pun intended of like a felony case.

Right.

of like a felony case.

Right.

In New York State.

In New York State.

That's a tough sell.

And so it's going to be challenging, right?

So that's going to be something So that's going to be something we have to watch as it goes forward.

But I do think that this really does set the stage for what's next.

Now, prosecutors who are looking into other kinds of possible crimes from the former president are maybe now more emboldened and maybe less worried about.

Like.

Actually indicting him, because that's the hardest thing to do.

But, you know, the problem is But, you know, the problem is if you start it, you better finish it.

In this case, it's unclear if it's going to finish or not.

The president, former president said that the D.A.

The president, former president said that the D.A.

should self indict.

Indict yourself, he says, well, I don't know, maybe his grasp of the legal sense is not so good, but hopefully his attorneys have a better grasp because he hasn't some danger here.

That's a real problem.

But not just for this, though, Geronimo.

But not just for this, though, Jeronimo.

There are actually other cases that are moving that were reported the same week.

That may have other implications.

Right.

In terms of the records that were classified that the president had at Mar a Lago, The Washington Post reported that there are several new elements to this where they have evidence there are several new elements to this where they have evidence to suggest that the former president was, in fact, tampering with these records or had them in a way that he was not legally supposed to.

So some of the specific things include that, based upon secret camera security footage that the president personally camera security footage that the president personally was looking through these boxes, they have the president's valet tell them in testimony that he had tried to maneuver these boxes and ordered them to be moved.

So I know how upset you get when your valet disobeys So I know how upset you get when your valet disobeys your orders and testifies against you in court.

Yeah, but there are a lot of evidence here from this that suggests that the president might be in even more legal that suggests that the president might be in even more legal decline decline as a result of this case than the hush money case in New York.

as a result of this case than the hush money case in New York.

So what do you make of that?

Well, I mean, that's another front.

Yeah.

So it's you know, it's the entirety of the legal cases So it's you know, it's the entirety of the legal cases because he's not only this one.

Right.

He has four more that are lined up.

Yeah.

And has not been you know, resolved one way or the other.

And has not been you know, resolved one way or the other.

So the legal certainty can go anyways.

So the legal certainty can go anyways.

Right.

Right.

So that is a problem for Trump in order to have so many flanks open.

Yeah.

When you have a, you know, so far kind of weak I guess primary campaign.

I guess primary campaign.

That's a great point.

That's a great point.

But right on the other hand, right after the indictment, you know, his popularity just won.

you know, his popularity just went up.

The money went up.

Right?

The money went up nine.

So he can see this says, well, maybe it's not that bad.

Yeah.

I mean, it seems like bizarro world to say like you get indicted and you become more popular, but that's the reality.

We've talked all about this and as political scientists right.

We can explain a lot of why this is happening.

And I think that obviously the president And I think that obviously the president is going to be able to benefit in some quarters from this, but there are going to be opponents who challenge him, including this week.

Asa Hutchinson, the former Arkansas governor, announced he's running for president in 2024 and he specifically mentioned Donald Trump and said that this is an embarrassment and it's going to hurt the party if he's allowed to be the nominee.

I think Hutchinson is a kind of also ran.

I mean, at this point, his profile is pretty modest.

It's not to say that things don't change It's not to say that things don't change because in a presidential election, you know, a.

Week.

You can go from, you know, also ran to frontrunner.

You can go from, you know, also ran to frontrunner.

But, you know, he obviously is here grasping at straws.

But I do think it's a signal that you're going to see a lot of people jump into this race saying Trump shouldn't be the nominee.

We have to do everything we can to stop that because they know it hurts the party brand and then they know as a general election candidate, he's going to be like a real nightmare.

So what do you make of that and Hutchinson's sort of announcement that, you know, he's coming for Trump?

you know, he's coming for Trump?

Well, I mean, sure, the problem here is that the more is not necessarily the mayor in the situation.

the more is not necessarily the mayor in the situation.

Yeah, right.

Because that tends to split the vote.

Yeah, right.

And then you don't have a pro-Trump anti-Trump front.

And that's what happened in 16.

Exactly.

Trump has a core support that won't leave.

Everybody else splits all the vote.

Exactly.

Everybody else splits all the vote.

Exactly.

So so that is extremely problematic.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I don't know what's going to be the strategy again I don't know what's going to be the strategy again with the Republican Party because you have once again, the pro-Trump, the okay, I better align with Trump.

the pro-Trump, the okay, I better align with Trump.

If not, I'm going to be heard in the primary or in the general election because he's going to come after me.

And then the, you know, anti-Trump supporter.

Well, anti-Trump, not supporters.

Right.

Anybody but Trump.

Anybody but Trump.

Yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, yeah.

It's a mess.

It's nothing.

It's a mess.

It's nothing.

It's too many moving pieces, right?

It's a.

Lot.

I mean, things will settle out, but this will still be going on during the primary season.

And so there's going to be a lot of churn about this.

And so we'll obviously keep track of all of this.

In other presidential news, In other presidential news, Joe Manchin, the senator from West Virginia, who's a centrist Democrat, as suggested that he is not ruling out running for president.

All the while, All the while, Joe Biden has not officially declared he'll say he's going to do this soon.

But like we said, But like we said, you know, things are coming up quickly on the season where people are starting to raise money, visit some of the key primary states, rounding up volunteers and activists.

So like things have already started and.

Governor DeSantis right that it's like are you or not?

Are you are you not?

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

Are you are you not?

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

Why are you going to do it?

Right.

We'll see.

But yeah, this is important.

Yeah.

But yeah, this is important.

Yeah.

Because obviously Joe Biden's decision will have ramifications for the Democratic Party.

The best thing for the Democrats, I don't know.

I was going to say the best thing for the Democrats I was going to say the best thing for the Democrats is that he stay because running an incumbent is easier than running a new challenger.

Right.

And the Democrats still have to get well known, even though, you know, some of them are well known already.

even though, you know, some of them are well known already.

So it's a kind of ongoing question So it's a kind of ongoing question for strategically for Democrats.

A lot of it depends too on kind of what the Republicans do.

And so there's not a lot of time to figure all these out.

Yeah, it's going to have to kind of go on faith.

And that's something that's been hard for politicians to do, right?

So but from one kind of chaos moment to another, Let's talk Texas, this week complaining about abuse and inappropriate behavior in the office, the entire staff of Houston, Representative Jolanda Jones, resigned.

of Houston, Representative Jolanda Jones, resigned.

This is really rare, right?

This is really rare, right?

I mean, you see staff resignations for all kinds of reasons.

Normally, they, to use a baseball analogy, keep it in the tunnel.

Right.

Like we keep it private.

We don't have to have this sort of family business exposed.

But in this case, in a very public way, the quintessential.

I want to spend more time with my family.

I want to spend more time with my family.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It was more time with family, which means, yeah, something went terribly wrong.

Yeah.

Quitting.

But in this case, the entire staff wrote like a three page letter detailing all these allegations, some of which involved the representative son and how much he was involved in an affair with an intern.

and how much he was involved in an affair with an intern.

So there's like a lot of things going on here.

What do you make of what this is going to do to her position, but even more specifically, like to her ability but even more specifically, like to her ability to be a representative in a session which is rapidly coming to a close?

I think, you know, staff is the bloodline that, you know, makes the capital works and flow and everything.

makes the capital works and flow and everything.

Without staff, there is no simple way of, Without staff, there is no simple way of, you know, being able to be an effective represent adult.

you know, being able to be an effective representative.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Staffers play a key role in terms of their public policy Staffers play a key role in terms of their public policy making.

They, you know, take calls, they talk to constituencies, constituents, they, you know, summarize, draft, constituents, they, you know, summarize, draft, they help them prepare legislation.

So it's a myriad of things that they need support.

You have to have You have to have how fast you can hire and how fast you can train.

how fast you can hire and how fast you can train.

Well, you know, the session ends in a couple of months.

Well, you know, the session ends in a couple of months.

So I don't know.

There's a steep learning curve, are you?

Look at my notes.

I think you take all my notes because we are exactly the same page on this.

If I don't have my glasses on your glasses, you can't see it.

I don't have my glasses on your glasses, you can't see it.

Otherwise I would totally accuse you Otherwise I would totally accuse you because we're on the same page.

Partly on the same page because we've done some academic research exactly on staff work and resource distribution.

And we find exactly what you said, which is that it's so important.

Right.

And those staff members are conduits to the people but also to other members.

but also to other members.

So getting things passed and lining up the legislative process is so important.

the legislative process is so important.

And if you don't have staff, it's really impossible to do so.

It's kind of neutered her ability to be able to act effectively.

So hopefully they can get some new staff in there and they can work quickly.

But like you said, the sessions coming quickly to an end, but that's not to say that hurt feelings but that's not to say that hurt feelings are going to come to an end, because there was other news that broke actually last week.

We didn't get a chance to cover it because we were so busy talking about last week's news.

But Representative Harold Dutton here from Houston has resigned from the Texas Legislative Black Caucus.

His reason was that they had a panel His reason was that they had a panel discussion on public education.

Right.

discussion on public education.

Right.

And did not include him, maybe a little sour grapes.

But there's been a lot of friction between Dutton and the rest of the caucus, the Democratic caucus and the Legislative Black Caucus, and the Legislative Black Caucus, especially over the use of kind of public money for private schools.

There's been friction there, which is now There's been friction there, which is now become much more public.

become much more public.

And obviously, you know, Dutton has been unhappy about this.

He accuses the caucus of engaging in stank leadership and retaliation because of these policy differences.

and retaliation because of these policy differences.

So what do you make of how So what do you make of how this has come down and whether have an effect on the Houston delegation's ability to unify prior to the end of the session, which is really coming to a close fast.

A lot of stuff is happening.

Bills are starting to get here, being moved to second reading and third reading.

The budgets, you know, already on the table for some chopping.

The budgets, you know, already on the table for some chopping.

What do you make of how this is going to play out for that?

What do you make of how this is going to play out for that?

Well, I think well, first of all, I think that, you know, Well, I think well, first of all, I think that, you know, when you're in politics, when you're in politics, as we say in Spanish, La ropa sucia se laven en casa.

All the dirty clothes have to be, you know, washed at home.

That's.

Oh, I like that.

Okay, good.

Right.

That's.

Oh, I like that.

Okay, good.

Right.

"Dichos".

Exactly.

So it's, you know, you keep it tight.

Okay.

On the one hand.

Yeah.

And then on the other one is you hash out these differences, right?

You sit down, you say, what's going on?

You sit down, you say, what's going on?

Let's talk about it.

We need to be united.

And if you're not united, right, you know, you are giving an advantage you know, you are giving an advantage to the other side in this case to Republicans.

Right.

to the other side in this case to Republicans.

Right.

Because it's very easy to move, you know, pieces here Because it's very easy to move, you know, pieces here and there.

And I think that if you want to be effective in terms of representing, you know, your ideals or whatever it is from whichever you know, your ideals or whatever it is from whichever party you are, you need to have a very unique front.

Yeah.

And you know, we know that Democrats are not very good at keeping it together when the situation is happening.

Right.

So I think that, you know, politically was, I guess, a mistake of not inviting Dutton to this.

a mistake of not inviting Dutton to this.

Conference as a courtesy.

It's like you.

Have to keep that circle.

Yeah.

And then obviously Dutton responds, you know, surfaces in such a way that you say like, hmm, something is going on.

And there's more, right?

Yeah.

And there's more, right?

Yeah.

So I mean, and preceding this, the Democrats have been hammering on his bills and knocking them down, blocking them from writing for their hearings.

This is definitely like a friction that goes beyond just this one panel.

But this was the straw that breaks the back of the camel, right?

Small, but obviously meaningful.

The other thing I think it's important to note The other thing I think it's important to note is, as you said, unity is critical here for Democrats.

And what we find really is that there's still this internal divide in the Democratic Party.

I don't think you're talking about the same kind of ideological divide for Republicans by a wide gap between the far right and the kind of mid right.

But you definitely have a divide there in terms of ideology, in terms of tactics.

And so Dunn from the old school, he's from, the kind of, you know, mode of the you know, mode of the you know, kind of legislature where you were a moderate.

And that was a sort of proud badge of honor.

And although he's a Democrat, he still feels like, you know, in some cases, there are things he'd you know, he'd compromise on and work with Republicans on.

So this divide is still really apparent and it's even more apparent.

And I think we'll see more of this when we see how the Democrats tackle some of these controversial tackle some of these controversial bills coming up and some of these bills, the Republicans need a supermajority to be able to compete.

And the caucus chair, chairman Reince Fisher, has said, And the caucus chair, chairman Reince Fisher, has said, you know, we're not going to like you know, we're not going to like let them just kind of railroad us.

We're going to fight on these key bills.

Right.

And so they need every vote, first of all, like you said.

But second of all, this divide could be problematic for them if they aren't able to fix it.

So we're going to have to kind of monitor how this goes out.

But some other news of interest this week involves But some other news of interest this week involves Harris County, and that's that.

The controller has rescinded his determination that Harris County's trying to defund police.

This goes back to a fight over a state law passed in 2021, Senate Bill 23 that bars large counties Senate Bill 23 that bars large counties from cutting law enforcement spending from cutting law enforcement spending without getting approval from voters.

We talked about this weeks ago and you had a great point, which was like, it's confusing what standard you're using, how you're counting things.

The controller basically said, okay, The controller basically said, okay, losing an annualized measure of how much of a percent of the budget goes up or down is the way to go in.

is the way to go in.

Harris County showed us they did that, but they still defunded police.

Right.

And so this letter is confusing.

The whole thing is confusing.

The whole thing is confusing.

So tell me, like, what is going on here?

What does this mean for us?

It's the power of math.

Okay.

Yeah, I said that is impressive.

The problem was that, you know, Harris County The problem was that, you know, Harris County changed the number of months in the year.

So when they extended this thing.

That's magic right there.

No, no, no, wait, wait, wait.

That's magic right there.

No, no, no, wait, wait, wait.

Right.

Okay, it gets better.

Right.

Okay, it gets better.

The word transition to a 12 month budget cycle rather than, you know, fiscal year or whatever.

budget cycle rather than, you know, fiscal year or whatever.

Is that that were you.

Yes.

So it was based on seven months.

Gotcha.

So when you look at that and then you annualize it, then, So when you look at that and then you annualize it, then, you know, you say, well, it's missing money.

Right.

And the whole argument was like, yeah, And the whole argument was like, yeah, but you're using the wrong, I guess, denominator.

Right.

Right.

Because you have to divide these by seven, not by 12, and therefore, boom.

And the raw numbers don't matter as much as the percentage.

And the raw numbers don't matter as much as the percentage.

Exactly.

So again, so it's using.

Exactly.

So again, so it's using.

Yeah.

Right.

So the issue here is once the I guess the white board and the, you know, bend diagrams and you know, step one, take these monarchs string.

and you know, step one, take these monarchs string.

It's like exact conspiracy theory style.

You get the abacus and start counting, etc., etc.. You get the abacus and start counting, etc., etc.. Then they say, Oh, okay.

And even they said, Well, these point is moot And even they said, Well, these point is moot because now they're like, they resigned in it.

Right.

Right.

But again, you said, well, it's like, yeah, your math is right, but still, yeah, you're defunded, but you still do something wrong now.

So I think you're you make a good point.

And that is that like that puts a lot of pressure And that is that like that puts a lot of pressure on the comptroller's office to be able to navigate this.

And so, Glen Hager, as to be honest, I'm not going to say Governor in waiting, but like he's of that generation of leaders who's going to be in contention to be in that big three, right.

He's going to have to really handle this effectively.

He's going to have to really handle this effectively.

So this kind of weird, wishy washy ness where okay, mathematically, you're right, but politically is wrong.

I'm not sure it's going to fly.

Right.

I'm not sure it's going to fly.

Right.

The primary voters in Republican Party want a firm answer on this.

And he kind of gave them two answers, which they're not going to go for.

So that's interesting to note.

It does demonstrate the potency of this issue.

Right.

Not only just Not only just the defunding police issue, but also local control issue.

We've seen scads of bills that are going to remove local power and give it back to the state.

local power and give it back to the state.

So the sweeping preemption bills, bills that take over state owned utilities, bills to ban local lobbyists, a bunch of stuff.

So obviously, this is going to be an ongoing issue and we'll see how it plays out at the end of this.

But that's important to note.

Real quick, let's talk about the Supreme Court in Texas striking down Proposition B.

This was a voter approved measure that would have given firefighter pay with police.

It was estimated It was estimated to cost the city about 80 to $100 million.

Cities ecstatic because now they don't have to pay.

Right.

Therefore, kind of keeping their budget intact.

Therefore, kind of keeping their budget intact.

But the court did say you have to go to collective bargaining, which could cost the city money.

So we're quick.

What's your take on that?

Well, I think, you know, it's not either positive or negative or good or bad, but I think that the core issue has to be resolved.

I mean, firefighters need to get paid I mean, firefighters need to get paid as much as police officers.

as much as police officers.

Right.

The city and and the firefighters have not been on the same page on this, if not exactly.

The court said you have to go to arbitration, so that'll be coming.

And there could be a huge financial kind of windfall here for the firefighters that could cost the city some money.

that could cost the city some money.

But I mean, it's a very complicated issue, right.

It's also involves math budgets.

It's also involves math budgets.

I was told there be no math this episode, I was told there be no math this episode, but now there's a lot of math.

I'm sorry, but math is.

Well, let's switch to from math to April Fool's jokes.

Somebody decided to play a prank Somebody decided to play a prank on the Greg Abbott presidential campaign by filing a federal campaign committee titled The Greg Abbott Presidential Campaign.

It turns out, though, that this was, It turns out, though, that this was, I guess, an April Fool's joke, because when you call the number, it's an Arby's fast food restaurant in Grand Prairie, which I don't think is where you'd run a presidential campaign from.

But I would.

I mean, Arby's is you know, you got the sauce.

Oh, that's good.

And the meat's.

Right.

So, I don't know.

So, I don't know.

Obviously, social media has sort of blew this up, which made it kind of funny.

But the governor Abbott, at least at this point, is not running for president and he's certainly not doing so from Arby's.

Absolutely.

And when he runs, we're going to let you know if he runs.

And when he runs, we're going to let you know if he runs.

We're going to let you know in this phase.

We're going to let you know in this phase.

But all the details for this week.

That's it, Brandon.

Hey, thanks for watching Party Politics and thanks to everybody here at Houston Public Media for making us look and sound so good.

I'm Jeronimo Cortina And I'm Brandon Rottinghaus.

We'll see you next week.

We'll see you next week.